Drow Psion

[Blackhawk748]

Ok i have never played a Psion and after i am done with our current campaign, one of my players is gonna DM a game, and i would like to play a Drow Psion.

Now since i have never played a Psion im open to pretty much any suggestion. Currently im leaning towards Shaper, because Astral Construct is sweet.

Rules
1st level
3.5
All books available, Dragon Mag is a maybe
70 points straight buy (so up from 0)
No LA, as im starting with lower points.
Flaws are available
No Templates

[Rubik]

Ok i have never played a Psion and after i am done with our current campaign, one of my players is gonna DM a game, and i would like to play a Drow Psion.

Now since i have never played a Psion im open to pretty much any suggestion. Currently im leaning towards Shaper, because Astral Construct is sweet.

Rules
70 points straight buy (so up from 0)
No LA, as im starting with lower points.3.5, Pathfinder, or a mix of the two?

Available rulebooks and other sources available?

What kinds of things do you want to do mechanically? Do you like thinking outside the box or do you just want to blast or something?

What level?

Are templates like the ghost savage progression, dragonborn, and necropolitan available?

What houserules are involved? LA buyoff? Flaws? Traits?

More detail is appreciated.

[Blackhawk748]

3.5, Pathfinder, or a mix of the two?

Available rulebooks and other sources available?

What kinds of things do you want to do mechanically? Do you like thinking outside the box or do you just want to blast or something?

What level?

Are templates like the ghost savage progression, dragonborn, and necropolitan available?

What houserules are involved? LA buyoff? Flaws? Traits?

More detail is appreciated.

This is what i get posting before dinner :smalltongue:

Ive updated the OP with some more rules, as for what i want the character to do? Im not really sure, i love just blowing stuff up, but thats not really Powers Known intensive so what do i do with the rest? Honestly the only thing im sure about right now is that Astral Construct is awesome and i want it. Other than that....debuffing maybe? Im playing with newer players so id rather not turn into GOD INCARNATE!! Becoming the Chess-master is fine though :smallwink:

[Rubik]

I'd suggest a shaper psion/3.5 constructor (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625b). Focus on metacreativity powers. They'll give you everything from blasting to utility. But don't take Astral Construct until at least level 2, since one round isn't worth much. Take Link Power from CPsi and some standard and swift action powers so you can skip the 1 round manifesting times (or the longer manifesting times, for things like Psionic Minor Creation). You also ought to take things like Time Hop for messing about with time. Mess with your opponents' mounts, with the scenery, and with your own party (as a defensive option).

[edit] Wait, this is e6. Hmm. I don't think you can get into constructor without some early entry stuff. Just plain psion it is, then.

[TinyMushroom]

Hello, I, am currently playing a psion. A warforged shaper, to be precise, so maybe I can be of some assistance. Astral construct is good fun and make great tanks. I'd definitely consider getting the Boost Construct feat if you intend to make them your bread and butter. Overchannel is also fun to get stronger constructs earlier, but I guess you need to be a bit careful with it at lower levels.

Inertial armor is a fine power, as is Entangling Ectoplasm for teh debuff. Guides do tend to recommend Vigor, but I've had it many sessions and never used it. Ever. There just always tend to be better ways to use my actions/pp. But maybe at really low levels the temp hp could still matter? Do you think the game is going to last so long that you need tips for higher levels too?

In this case I recommend Control Sound (2nd level, very versatile power), Time Hop (3rd level, straight up goodness, even when you don't get creative with it), Dispel Psionics (3rd level, fun bc you can spam it harder than most people), Telekinetic Thrust (3rd level, the "lol you just fell into the chasm" power. great fun.), Telekinetic Maneuver (4th level, grapple people WITH YOUR MIND)

Protip: stat out your constructs beforehand. It may seem trivial, but suddenly being faced with picking menu choices in the middle of combat can be a hassle when you do it for the first time.

[Rubik]

Protip: stat out your constructs beforehand. It may seem trivial, but suddenly being faced with picking menu choices in the middle of combat can be a hassle when you do it for the first time.Download this (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7XkmnK-DY9YRkU5SVhCNWZqS0U/view?usp=sharing) and use it extensively. It'll make building constructs on the fly A LOT easier.

[tyckspoon]

Inertial armor is a fine power, as is Entangling Ectoplasm for teh debuff. Guides do tend to recommend Vigor, but I've had it many sessions and never used it. Ever. There just always tend to be better ways to use my actions/pp. But maybe at really low levels the temp hp could still matter? Do you think the game is going to last so long that you need tips for higher levels too?


Vigor isn't amazing when you use it straight up, I agree. It's pretty useful when you combine it with the several methods psionics has of combining or acquiring extra actions (Link Power, Synchronicity, et al) and especially when you use the Share Pain + Psicrystal method. Share Pain is hour/level duration, so you can premanifest that once or twice and have it last the entire dungeon, and Psicrystals can share in your self buffs.. so you get double the effect on your Vigor by duplicating it on your Psicrystal, and then Share Pain splits that between the two temp HP pools. Greatly extends effective HP, especially if your DM agrees that the portion assigned to the Psicrystal is then reduced by its Hardness.

[Rubik]

Make sure to find ways of boosting your manifester level and the number of power points you can pump into a power (which includes cost reductions, as they're basically "free" pp, since you can add yet another pp to augment up to your regular cap).

Overchannel is the obvious one, but you can also use a psionic version of the arcanist gloves in the MIC (it gives an official way to make psionic versions of arcane and divine items right there in the book) for an easy +2 MLs on your level 1 powers. Use the rules in the MIC to make a psionic version of a metamagic rod, then use the rules in MoI to bind a metapsionic rod to your hands chakra and boost your ML by another +1. Metapower (Link Power + Synchronicity) boosts the number of pp you can spend on any power Linked to Synchronicity by +1, giving you more augmenting options. Power link shards from Secrets of Sarlona can give you a stacking bonus to your ML, though it permanently costs you hp. Midnight Augmentation from MoI is nice to have for cost reduction, as is the Earth Power feat, from Races of Stone, and you can fill it up using Psycarnum Infusion, though with this being e6, the amount of essentia you can invest is fairly minimal.

You may also want to consider Psionic Body, since you'll probably be getting a lot of psionic feats, and hp are hard to come by in e6.

[TinyMushroom]

Vigor isn't amazing when you use it straight up, I agree. It's pretty useful when you combine it with the several methods psionics has of combining or acquiring extra actions (Link Power, Synchronicity, et al) and especially when you use the Share Pain + Psicrystal method. Share Pain is hour/level duration, so you can premanifest that once or twice and have it last the entire dungeon, and Psicrystals can share in your self buffs.. so you get double the effect on your Vigor by duplicating it on your Psicrystal, and then Share Pain splits that between the two temp HP pools. Greatly extends effective HP, especially if your DM agrees that the portion assigned to the Psicrystal is then reduced by its Hardness.
I knew there were tricks with it I just never really felt the urge to do much with them. Partially because it just made me feel like a munchkin and partially because literally nobody in the group besides me knew the psionic rules, so I'd actually have to explain all that stuff.

All in all I'd say you can be a plenty strong, effective psion without wringing every last drop of power out of the ruleset.

[Blackhawk748]

Thanks for all the advice so far, ill try to get a build together. Was probably gonna use the Incarnum Feats as i freakin love MoI

[Rubik]

You'll probably want to look into pp-saving techniques.

You can Google the subject, but here are some ideas to start off with: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=12079.0;wap2

If you want a blaster, how about doing something with this? http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19788955&postcount=274

You'll need Expanded Knowledge, either for Control Body or Astral Construct (if you're a kineticist), but doing 1d6+1+Int (with Int being +5 or greater) is decent damage, especially if you abuse Synchronicity and Link Power. You'll need some +1 manifester arrows for enough pp to do this throughout the day, though.

[Blackhawk748]

Lady Chadra Mylyl Drow Psion 6
Str 10
Dex 14
Con 12
Int 18
Wis 10
Cha 10

1 Psi Crystal Affinity (nimble), Overchannel (bonus), Talented (flaw)
3 Psionic Meditation
6 Midnight Augmentation

Skills: Concentration, Knowledge Psionics, Arcana, Religion, and Nature, Psicraft
Powers Known at first level, Total PP at 1st level: 4
Energy Ray
Entangling Ectoplasm
Grease Psionic

Also she has SR 12 a bunch of various bonuses for being drow and a handful of SLAs

[Rubik]

Don't forget to wear armor with 0 ACP, and upgrade to magical mithril chain shirt later. There's absolutely no reason not to, since you don't suffer arcane spell failure.

Also, nab yourself some power stones of Inertial Armor. According to a sidebar in CPsi, you can spend your own pp to fuel the power from the power stone, which raises the ML and allows you to spend more pp in augmenting it. It still wipes the stone, but it basically gives you another power known, since level 1 power stones are really cheap.

[edit] Oh, and buy power stones of powers you want but can't afford to put on your powers known list right away, as well as situational powers that may come in handy at one point.

[Nifft]

So, you're playing E6.

All books (including Incarnum).

IMHO your major weakness is going to be staying power. You can go nova quite naturally, but contributing round-after-round will be a challenge.

There seem to be two main ways you could go for boosting your staying power:

- crystal shard + Point Blank Shot + Psionic Shot + Psionic Meditation

- Azure Talent + Psicarnum Infusion + Psionic Meditation

(Or both. If you do both, that'll eat up all your Feats through level 6, and beyond for the ancillary boosts, but it's a very significant power boost over regular E6 damage calculations.)

[Rubik]

Instead of Energy Ray at first level, how about Matter Agitation? Then you can keep concentrating on it for several rounds to cause damage throughout a fight.

Or you can use a crossbow and bolts to save pp, and replace Energy Ray with Psionic Minor Creation. Use it to make poison, and take the Master of Poisons feat instead of Overchannel. Then poison your crossbow bolts and deal Con damage to your enemies. It'd fit in perfectly with being drow.

[Blackhawk748]

- Azure Talent + Psicarnum Infusion + Psionic Meditation

Nice trick, will probably use this.

[Nifft]

Nice trick, will probably use this.

If you go that route, you'll also want Improved Essentia Capacity and a high Con (14 or preferably 16).

At level 6 -- or after, with one of your E6 Epic feats -- you'll want Open Least Chakra (crown) for another +2 power points per expended psi focus.

You'll probably also want to take the Shape Soulmeld feat at least once. Psion's Eyes (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20060217a) are really nice. Since you're eventually opening your Crown Chakra (for the boost to Azure Talent), you might want something to bind to that... hmm, maybe Crystal Helm? Not necessarily a priority unless you need to resist a lot of Charm & Compulsion effects, or for some reason you feel the need to stab a lot of incorporeal undead.

(Also, Airwalk Sandals can be pretty spiffy if you also Open Least Chakra (feet), but that's not necessarily a priority unless you can't get any other source of flight...)

- - -

Sadly, all this stuff would work better with an Azurin or even a regular Human than a Drow, so I'm afraid it's not very character-specific optimization, just general optimization advice.

[Rubik]

Nice trick, will probably use this.You'll want to talk to your DM about it, first. 2 pp 1/day isn't worth 2 whole feats, but it might be if you got to use it at-will, even if the "temp pp" from it don't stack.

[Troacctid]

Nice trick, will probably use this.

It's not a great combo because Azure Talent doesn't give you temporary power points, so they're not used up first the way temporary power points are—when the Psycarnum Infusion wears off, your power point reserve will be drained appropriately. Essentially, all it does is give you an extra 4 PP/day at level 6.

[Rubik]

Essentially, all it does is give you an extra 4 PP/day at level 6.Spending two feats on Psionic Talent would give more pp than that at level 1, and PT isn't exactly an awesome feat.

I'd still go the poison route. Extremely viable at level 1, conserves pp like a mofo, and fits in perfectly with being an archetypical drow.

[DrMartin]

Lady Chadra Mylyl Drow Psion 6
Str 10
Dex 14
Con 12
Int 18
Wis 10
Cha 10


I would bump a bit that Con at the expense of some Str




1 Psi Crystal Affinity (nimble), Overchannel (bonus), Talented (flaw)
3 Psionic Meditation
6 Midnight Augmentation


Could you nab a second flaw? If so, consider either Boost construct or Psionic Body (this would amount to +8hp at first level, bumping you from 5 to 13). Also you get a bonus feat at 5th level, or the sweet shaper ACF to manifest your personal construct as a swift action for no pp cost, just expending your focus (From the Mind's Eye, expanded classes part 3)

Also, the nimble construct is probably the "best" choice, but on a shaper I'm a fan of the Artiste personality, as you get a lot of mileage out of your craft checks with your discipline powers.




Skills: Concentration, Knowledge Psionics, Arcana, Religion, and Nature, Psicraft


No Dungeoneering? another exiled drow? :smallbiggrin: ask your DM if Psionics and Arcana overlap or if you need both (if you can identify spell with psicraft or use psionic items with use magic device, they could/should). Craft (Alchemy) can be useful to get the most out of minor creation if your DM rules that poisons, acids and drugs are complex items. Craft (Sculpting) can be useful to make your constructs look like you want them to look



Powers Known at first level, Total PP at 1st level: 4
Energy Ray
Entangling Ectoplasm
Grease Psionic

Also she has SR 12 a bunch of various bonuses for being drow and a handful of SLAs

Entangling Ectoplasm and Grease do very similar things - I'd pick either one of them, but not both. Also you're a shaper, shape things! Minor creation is tons of fun, and there's a big lack of astral construct in there. Remember, when you Overchannel your caster level goes up without spending pp, so even at first level your 1pp construct lasts 2 rds, beating a 1pp energy ray in both damage and utility. For direct damage you throw vials of acid you have minor created beforehand (overchanneling at first level, 1 pp gives you 2 cubic feet of material, or about 120 1-pint flasks, and it last for two hours a pop, so you can hopefully manifest it beforehand when you are expecting trouble).

Otherwise grab matter agitation, entangling ectoplasm and minor creation, throw oil you created and then set it on fire:smallamused:

[Blackhawk748]

It's not a great combo because Azure Talent doesn't give you temporary power points, so they're not used up first the way temporary power points are—when the Psycarnum Infusion wears off, your power point reserve will be drained appropriately. Essentially, all it does is give you an extra 4 PP/day at level 6.

Why is it 4pp/day? I just expend my Focus and i would get 4 PP, i dont see a daily limit.


Could you nab a second flaw? If so, consider either Boost construct or Psionic Body (this would amount to +8hp at first level, bumping you from 5 to 13). Also you get a bonus feat at 5th level, or the sweet shaper ACF to manifest your personal construct as a swift action for no pp cost, just expending your focus (From the Mind's Eye, expanded classes part 3)

Also, the nimble construct is probably the "best" choice, but on a shaper I'm a fan of the Artiste personality, as you get a lot of mileage out of your craft checks with your discipline powers.



No Dungeoneering? another exiled drow? :smallbiggrin: ask your DM if Psionics and Arcana overlap or if you need both (if you can identify spell with psicraft or use psionic items with use magic device, they could/should). Craft (Alchemy) can be useful to get the most out of minor creation if your DM rules that poisons, acids and drugs are complex items. Craft (Sculpting) can be useful to make your constructs look like you want them to look



Entangling Ectoplasm and Grease do very similar things - I'd pick either one of them, but not both. Also you're a shaper, shape things! Minor creation is tons of fun, and there's a big lack of astral construct in there. Remember, when you Overchannel your caster level goes up without spending pp, so even at first level your 1pp construct lasts 2 rds, beating a 1pp energy ray in both damage and utility. For direct damage you throw vials of acid you have minor created beforehand (overchanneling at first level, 1 pp gives you 2 cubic feet of material, or about 120 1-pint flasks, and it last for two hours a pop, so you can hopefully manifest it beforehand when you are expecting trouble).

Otherwise grab matter agitation, entangling ectoplasm and minor creation, throw oil you created and then set it on fire:smallamused:

Ill probably grab Psionic Body.

Shes self exiled :smallbiggrin:

Ok im convinced, Matter Agitation, Entangling Ectoplasm, and Minor Creation. Let it all burn!!

[Rubik]

Also you get a bonus feat at 5th level, or the sweet shaper ACF to manifest your personal construct as a swift action for no pp cost, just expending your focus (From the Mind's Eye, expanded classes part 3)Or you could spend a minimal amount of gold for a chronocharm of the uncaring archmage and get the same benefit without the drawbacks AND not waste a feat. And before then, you can use Link Power to manifest a standard action power and get the Linked construct next round without much fuss.

That ACF isn't very good at all. I don't know why anyone ever suggests it.


there's a big lack of astral construct in there. Remember, when you Overchannel your caster level goes up without spending pp, so even at first level your 1pp construct lasts 2 rds, beating a 1pp energy ray in both damage and utility.He's also level 1. 1d8 damage could very easily kill him, especially if an enemy gets in a shot later in the round. Baaaaad idea. That's why I suggested replacing Overchannel and getting it later.

[DrMartin]

Or you could spend a minimal amount of gold for a chronocharm of the uncaring archmage and get the same benefit without the drawbacks AND not waste a feat. And before then, you can use Link Power to manifest a standard action power and get the Linked construct next round without much fuss.

That ACF isn't very good at all. I don't know why anyone ever suggests it.

the chronocharm does not do the same thing - you have to activate it (a Swift Action) and then manifest the AC (a Standard Action). Personal construct means you get your Buddy up and running and can instantly manifest something else.

Linked power to shorten casting time is, in my opinion, one of the things that give psionics a bad name so I try not to make suggestions based on it :smallwink:

that said - i actually never managed to pick up the ACF, there were alywys other things i wanted to do with my level 5 feat, among them grab linked power or another metapsionics




He's also level 1. 1d8 damage could very easily kill him, especially if an enemy gets in a shot later in the round. Baaaaad idea. That's why I suggested replacing Overchannel and getting it later.

If he gets psionic body he´ll be tough enough. Overchannel + talented from Level 1 is already amazing, If you cannot fit both though it´s probably better to wait. If you play with flaws, like OP does, then definitely grab it.

[Rubik]

the chronocharm does not do the same thing - you have to activate it (a Swift Action) and then manifest the AC (a Standard Action). Personal construct means you get your Buddy up and running and can instantly manifest something else. Like I said, it's like the ACF but without the downsides, so it's not the same. You don't have to waste a feat OR be pigeonholed into using the same astral construct all the time. All it costs is a small amount of money and part of an item slot (which can be improved upon later on).

[Nifft]

Why is it 4pp/day? I just expend my Focus and i would get 4 PP, i dont see a daily limit. They're saying two things:
1 - The bonus power points provided by Azure Talent are not temporary power points (this is true); and
2 - Therefore, the bonus power points provided by Azure Talent work like the hit points provided by Barbarian Rage and reduce your main PP pool when they disappear (this is not true).

There are bonuses which are not like temporary HP and also not like Barbarian HP. For example, the bonus power points provided by a Manifester Weapon are a separate pool which can't be combined with regular PP (so unlike temporary PP) but which also do not reduce your main PP pool if you lose the weapon after using the bonus PP.

IMHO, the PP from Azure Talent might be a separate pool -- you can't combine them with your regular PP, but you can keep refilling that pool all day via Psycarnum Infusion.


Ill probably grab Psionic Body.

Shes self exiled :smallbiggrin:

Ok im convinced, Matter Agitation, Entangling Ectoplasm, and Minor Creation. Let it all burn!! Good stuff.

Crystal Shard is nice if SR / Psi Resist is a problem.

[Blackhawk748]

IMHO, the PP from Azure Talent might be a separate pool -- you can't combine them with your regular PP, but you can keep refilling that pool all day via Psycarnum Infusion.

This is largely how i saw it. I mean ya i can have "infinite PP" but only 4 at a time.

New Build

Lady Chadra Mylyl CE Drow Psion 6
Str 8
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 20
Wis 10
Cha 8

Flaws: Grudge Keeper, Wild

1 Psi Crystal Affinity (nimble), Overchannel (bonus), Talented (flaw), Psionic Body (flaw)
3 Psionic Meditation
6 Midnight Augmentation

Skills: Concentration, Knowledge Psionics, Arcana, Religion, and Nature, Psicraft
Powers Known at first level, Total PP at 1st level: 4
Minor Creation
Entangling Ectoplasm
Energy Agitation

So now she has 14 HP as well as more Int. As for how im gonna play her Chaotic Evil-ness, she is what Thealtruisticorc would call an Aggro-Indivualist. So as long as you dont make her do anything she didnt want to do, you're fine.