How might you need to change 5e for a stone age campaign?

[Rfkannen]

Just been thinking about it, what do you think would need to change to run 5e in a stone age style campaign, cave men and all that? I mean some things don't really make sense, like rapiers, but you could add some new weapons. So what do you think? What do you think would need to be scraped? what would need to be added? What would be cool things to add? What refluffs might be useful for it?

[TopCheese]

Really for a stone age game I would just scrap a lot of items and then just keep barbarian, druid, and sorcerer.

Refluff the backgrounds (urchin can be a sneaky version of outlander) or just let people make their own and pick 2 skills.

[Sqmach]

Really for a stone age game I would just scrap a lot of items and then just keep barbarian, druid, and sorcerer.

Refluff the backgrounds (urchin can be a sneaky version of outlander) or just let people make their own and pick 2 skills.

I agree with scrapping a lot of the items, anything above hide and leather for armor, most simple weapons should work, though obviously not the crossbow, for martial weapons I'd keep axes and hammers, but they'd be stone, any sort of polearm seems out of place. Stone swords would be a maybe, but I'd lean towards no. Blowgun, longbow, and net should be fine. Pretty much all the adventuring gear goes away, mostly just use common sense there.

As for classes, I'd hesitate to limit things that strictly. Obviously wizards are out, paladins and monks too, but I think the rest can work as long as you reflavor. Many ancient cultures revered nature, so druids make sense, but many had gods as well, so I wouldn't rule out clerics. Bards could easily be the tribe's story keeper, less a performer and more a wise man that relates their history. Rangers are their hunters, rogues and fighters are just different means of fighting, and Warlocks seem viable as long as the setting still has demons, fey, and others willing to make pacts.

[Nowhere Girl]

Unless you're worried about things like modeling flintknapping, it's basically just D&D with fewer weapon choices, as noted. Also, you need to decide whether you're setting the campaign before the birth of agriculture, after it, or ... during. The world will look very, very different depending on which, as agriculture is the one thing that probably changed human lifeways more than anything else.

Wizardry probably wouldn't be a thing either, as noted, but perhaps it still could be. Instead of spellbooks, maybe you'd have something like runestones.

I absolutely don't agree that monks couldn't exist, though. There's nothing about devotion to physical self-perfection and martial prowess that is incompatible with a stone-age world.

[Belac93]

Check out this thread, on this website, for this reason. Pathfinder based though, but much of the information works
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?445775-The-Dawn-of-Humanoids

[Naanomi]

How far in the Stone Age? What races?

[CyberThread]

Classes just refluff ****.


Paladins have a honor code of stuff they believe in , obvious not stabbing your family or protecting your cave may be a good enough reason to be a paladin.

Monk: Refluff it as just a sturdy hand to hand combination before stone weapons got adopted. Magical **** the subclasses get can just be given off as natural ability.

Wizards, just make them arcane shamans. If a damn 6int goblin can be a wizard then so can Fred Flintstones.

Warlock is easy pact ****

Cleric just as well

all the nature based classes stuff seems np

Melees, Fighter/Barbarian/rogue NP

Yeah classes are simple refluffing, no reason to get read of the mechanics of something. Just because the setting is stoneage, doesn't mean we have to act like neanderthals and not change the fluff.

[Temperjoke]

Weapons: Spears (sharpened wood or with stone points), quarterstaves, clubs, stone axes, slings, bow and arrows, javelins, stone daggers

Armor: hide armor, shields (hide stretched over a frame), woolen padded armor (could exist depending on the era)

Magic: would have been much more primitive, spells named after their inventor likely didn't exist (before the creator's time after all), I'd imagine that spells that require certain components to cast didn't exist since there wouldn't have been time for experimentation. Schools, I'd say Conjuration, Transmutation are probably out, since conceptually they involve more complex matter manipulation

Classes: Fighters (tribal wars happened), Barbarians, Druids, Rangers (ranged weapons, and animal pets were a thing), Sorcerers, Warlocks, Clerics

Fighters would be tribesman more focused on combating foreign tribes, with hunting as secondary, while barbarians are more general, at least in this sort of setting. On warlocks and Clerics, I'd imagine there would exist beings answering prayers and willing to bind mortals to them. Sorcerers would exist, since their powers are innately born. Wizards likely wouldn't exist, since it's accepted that they are generally scholars who spend their time in study and research, and you really didn't see that sort of thing happening until much later in human history when agriculture and settlements developed.


Just my opinion anyways.

[Sredni Vashtar]

Classes just refluff ****.


Paladins have a honor code of stuff they believe in , obvious not stabbing your family or protecting your cave may be a good enough reason to be a paladin.

Monk: Refluff it as just a sturdy hand to hand combination before stone weapons got adopted. Magical **** the subclasses get can just be given off as natural ability.

Wizards, just make them arcane shamans. If a damn 6int goblin can be a wizard then so can Fred Flintstones.

Warlock is easy pact ****

Cleric just as well

all the nature based classes stuff seems np

Melees, Fighter/Barbarian/rogue NP

Yeah classes are simple refluffing, no reason to get read of the mechanics of something. Just because the setting is stoneage, doesn't mean we have to act like neanderthals and not change the fluff.

Unwillingness to change the fluff is what led the neanderthals to become extinct.


Most of the classes should be fine. It's the equipment that'll change the most. Maybe the magic system would be simplified, but that depends on whether or not this is "the past" of a standard D&D world, or if it's just the tech level of this particular world.

[TopCheese]

Unwillingness to change the fluff is what led the neanderthals to become extinct.


Most of the classes should be fine. It's the equipment that'll change the most. Maybe the magic system would be simplified, but that depends on whether or not this is "the past" of a standard D&D world, or if it's just the tech level of this particular world.

Actually Neanderthals didn't really become extinct, not in the way most people think. They actually interbred with homosapien early ancestors and their DNA can be found in our DNA. It is actually one of the reasons why some people are hardier than others (resistance to disease).

So less extinct and more selective breeding.

Kinda like what we have done to dogs. There are quite a few dog pure breeds that are extinct but their DNA can be found in a ton of dog breeds.

[JoeJ]

A lot depends on what you mean by Stone Age. Are we talking Homo erectus discovering fire? Pleistocene mammoth hunters? The early Neolithic, and the beginning of agriculture? The late Neolithic with cities and the beginning of writing? Something else?

Setting the campaign anytime before the invention of writing is, I think, a much bigger change than setting it before the smelting of metals. Literacy didn't just change the way people stored information, it changed the way the thought about it. If you're going that path, you should do it all the way, which means no scrolls, spell books, or ritual books in any form. Among other things, that means that wizards and the Book of Ancient Secrets warlock invocation won't exist. If you let characters refluff their magic books as painted skins, or carved rocks, or anything else, then you're not playing in a world without writing. On the other hand, people in non-literate societies frequently develop highly trained memories, so it might be appropriate to give every PC the Keen Mind feat (without the +1 Intelligence) as a bonus at character creation.

[Naanomi]

Beastmaster is out if you are early enough Stone Age I think... While Beastmaster companions are not domesticated, too early in the Stone Age and cooperation with animals at all gets a little sketchy

If you have other races and all are Stone Age level tech, be aware of how they would be distinct... I can envision dwarves in rough been stone half-plate or heavy armor that would be unknown to other races

[JoeJ]

If there are no domesticated animals (or none except dogs), spells like Find Steed and Phantom Steed probably won't exist either. A society that would think of using a spell to do that would almost certainly have thought of doing it without magic too.

[CyberThread]

Beastmaster is out if you are early enough Stone Age I think... While Beastmaster companions are not domesticated, too early in the Stone Age and cooperation with animals at all gets a little sketchy

If you have other races and all are Stone Age level tech, be aware of how they would be distinct... I can envision dwarves in rough been stone half-plate or heavy armor that would be unknown to other races


Be an elf , BOOM one with nature and animals.

[Sqmach]

If there are no domesticated animals (or none except dogs), spells like Find Steed and Phantom Steed probably won't exist either. A society that would think of using a spell to do that would almost certainly have thought of doing it without magic too.

Well, they might have thought of domesticating animals but not actually achieved it yet, its not like its a sudden process. Using magic to achieve their ideal result before they can do the real thing doesn't seem that far fetched. Its like having fireball before having explosives.

[Sigreid]

Obviously wizards are out, paladins and monks too, but I think the rest can work as long as you reflavor.

I pretty much disagree with all three of these.

A wizard's spell book could be cave paintings, or even traditional tribal dances that the performers don't know contain the keys to magic.

I don't think there's anything about cave people that would prevent one from being bound to an ideal. Perhaps there's a reason it's called Oath of Ancients?

Many monastic martial arts traditions at least make the claim that their origin lies with studying animals and how they move.

[Sigreid]

Beastmaster is out if you are early enough Stone Age I think... While Beastmaster companions are not domesticated, too early in the Stone Age and cooperation with animals at all gets a little sketchy

If you have other races and all are Stone Age level tech, be aware of how they would be distinct... I can envision dwarves in rough been stone half-plate or heavy armor that would be unknown to other races

Actually, it could be interesting if elves were standard D&D tech level, but watched humans while careful not to influence their development. Kind of like anthropologists that study aboriginal tribes still occasionally found in places like South America.

[Sqmach]

I pretty much disagree with all three of these.

A wizard's spell book could be cave paintings, or even traditional tribal dances that the performers don't know contain the keys to magic.

I don't think there's anything about cave people that would prevent one from being bound to an ideal. Perhaps there's a reason it's called Oath of Ancients?

Many monastic martial arts traditions at least make the claim that their origin lies with studying animals and how they move.

Yes, but the stone age was much more of a struggle to simply survive. Having the time to study magic seems unlikely, which is why I feel classes that are granted it by an outside source or naturally have inborn magic are more likely to exist. Similarly, the people that would otherwise become monks are more concerned with hunting and killing animals for food than they are figuring out how to copy their movements. And my problem with paladin is the whole ideal thing. In the stone age you probably aren't in a place where you have the freedom to adhere to ideals, you need to fight just to survive. I just believe its a different mindset that makes certain classes unlikely to exist.

However, it really does depend when in the stone age it is. Farming and domestication of animals changes all of this, and then I would agree that those classes gradually come into being.

[Sigreid]

Yes, but the stone age was much more of a struggle to simply survive. Having the time to study magic seems unlikely, which is why I feel classes that are granted it by an outside source or naturally have inborn magic are more likely to exist. Similarly, the people that would otherwise become monks are more concerned with hunting and killing animals for food than they are figuring out how to copy their movements. And my problem with paladin is the whole ideal thing. In the stone age you probably aren't in a place where you have the freedom to adhere to ideals, you need to fight just to survive. I just believe its a different mindset that makes certain classes unlikely to exist.

However, it really does depend when in the stone age it is. Farming and domestication of animals changes all of this, and then I would agree that those classes gradually come into being.

Clearly we're unlikely to come together on this, but I will say this in defense of wizard. Many believe that the cave paintings and dances were both meant to record secret knowledge that would help the tribe survive. I also saw a show on the history channel where an archaeologist was talking about this small peg board that he believed was used to track the movements of the migrating herds and predict their locations based on the layout of the board (Ivory or horn if I remember right). I don't think there would be a tonne of spells, but there are ones that I think would quite naturally develop among the first wizards and would definitely fit in the help the tribe survive category. They would also likely be very different and less refined than the traditional spells. Control weather may actually require a certain number of participants chanting and dancing to hit the right harmonic patterns to work. Not because it's necessary, but because what works hasn't been refined yet.

[CoggieRagabash]

Would Beast Master even be out? Even if there are no domesticated animals yet (though I would say wolves could be in the early stages if you wanted, it happened fairly early in human history and wouldn't feel thematically inappropriate), most animals that are available as animal companions in a standard D&D game aren't domesticated either. A Beast Master's ability seems to be an unusual one to relate to, understand and command an animal that often isn't domesticated in the slightest. It may if anything seem even more magical in a time period before widespread domestication of various species, but I think it should still function just fine.

[Sigreid]

Would Beast Master even be out? Even if there are no domesticated animals yet (though I would say wolves could be in the early stages if you wanted, it happened fairly early in human history and wouldn't feel thematically inappropriate), most animals that are available as animal companions in a standard D&D game aren't domesticated either. A Beast Master's ability seems to be an unusual one to relate to, understand and command an animal that often isn't domesticated in the slightest. It may if anything seem even more magical in a time period before widespread domestication of various species, but I think it should still function just fine.

I could easily see the cave man beast masters as being the very first ones experimenting with domestication of animals. A beast master gets a wolf companion. When that companion has cubs, the tribe takes them in...boom! start of the dog chain.

[Mjolnirbear]

Deciding when is important. Thier only ranged weapons might be javelins, their only clothes animal hides literally tied on. Or travel forward to basic archery, which comes after slings, while darts depend on the cultural development of poison which seems definitely a jungle thing.

[Sqmach]

Clearly we're unlikely to come together on this, but I will say this in defense of wizard. Many believe that the cave paintings and dances were both meant to record secret knowledge that would help the tribe survive. I also saw a show on the history channel where an archaeologist was talking about this small peg board that he believed was used to track the movements of the migrating herds and predict their locations based on the layout of the board (Ivory or horn if I remember right). I don't think there would be a tonne of spells, but there are ones that I think would quite naturally develop among the first wizards and would definitely fit in the help the tribe survive category. They would also likely be very different and less refined than the traditional spells. Control weather may actually require a certain number of participants chanting and dancing to hit the right harmonic patterns to work. Not because it's necessary, but because what works hasn't been refined yet.

I can actually see your point here for wizards. Recording spells in other forms could work, as could several people working together. However, they are obviously one of the harder classes to adjust to work and some of those adjustments might make them extremely impractical to play. Your example of cave paintings as a spellbook works if the wizard is constantly in the area of the painting, but means they can't venture very far or they lose access to some of their power. That or they make copies of spells in every cave they find, which would be time consuming but would allow a larger range of movement. The group casting makes sense for primitive magic, but would be impractical in play.

Still, its obvious that its something that emerges as a class over time. The DM would either need to create "primitive" spells and/or make a list of specifically approved spells.

[Knaight]

As has been covered, you'll want to dramatically curtail the equipment list. On the combat side, you might also want to have ways of boosting AC a bit to compensate. However, this is comparatively minor.

Less minor is that you'll need to dramatically retool the game economy. Coinage has no business showing up, and even trade commodities aren't really much of a thing yet. Setting-wise you'll want different references for descriptions and such, and on the mechanical end you might want to have significantly more people with fighting ability and solid physical scores in keeping with the hunter-gatherer lifestyle. You might want to make food more of a focus and get some subsystems in for that, to reflect scarcity problems (particularly if you're setting the game somewhere with a colder climate). Animals should be more prevalent, and maybe made more dangerous.

[CoggieRagabash]

Less minor is that you'll need to dramatically retool the game economy. Coinage has no business showing up, and even trade commodities aren't really much of a thing yet.

Yeah, the concept of using a substance of material to generally represent 'worth' wouldn't be there. Trade would occur on an interpersonal level, but it would be fairly simple, the equivalent of exchanged favors. In pre-agricultural societies, most people are assumed to be self-sufficient, capable of producing all the tools and such they need to function. That's not to say that some people won't be better at it than other, and some general 'trading' of goods and services may occur. "Hey, Kino, you're much better at making a chipped stone knife than I am. If I bring you food for a quarter moon, can you make one for me?" Since Kino isn't a knife-maker by trade and has to take care of all his other needs too, he may not have the time or interest and just not agree. You may well have to be friends with someone to even have a chance of getting that sort of transaction started.


As has been covered, you'll want to dramatically curtail the equipment list. On the combat side, you might also want to have ways of boosting AC a bit to compensate. However, this is comparatively minor. ... Animals should be more prevalent, and maybe made more dangerous.

These two may be related, actually. If most people's ACs are lower, animals would be more dangerous by default.

[JoeJ]

Less minor is that you'll need to dramatically retool the game economy. Coinage has no business showing up, and even trade commodities aren't really much of a thing yet.

For most setting, yes, but along the California coast, before European contact, strings of shell beads were used as currency with agreed-upon trade values. Some villages on the Channel Islands specialized in making the beads, while a few other villages specialized in making the stone drills used to make the beads.

[Knaight]

For most setting, yes, but along the California coast, before European contact, strings of shell beads were used as currency with agreed-upon trade values. Some villages on the Channel Islands specialized in making the beads, while a few other villages specialized in making the stone drills used to make the beads.

There are a few exceptions. Even this though is in the context of an extremely late era highly developed stone age culture.

[JoeJ]

There are a few exceptions. Even this though is in the context of an extremely late era highly developed stone age culture.

Absolutely. That's why in an earlier post I asked what part of the stone age the OP meant. On our world that phrase covers the entire period from the appearance of genus Homo all the way through the invention of writing and the first cities.

[Sigreid]

I can actually see your point here for wizards. Recording spells in other forms could work, as could several people working together. However, they are obviously one of the harder classes to adjust to work and some of those adjustments might make them extremely impractical to play. Your example of cave paintings as a spellbook works if the wizard is constantly in the area of the painting, but means they can't venture very far or they lose access to some of their power. That or they make copies of spells in every cave they find, which would be time consuming but would allow a larger range of movement. The group casting makes sense for primitive magic, but would be impractical in play.

Still, its obvious that its something that emerges as a class over time. The DM would either need to create "primitive" spells and/or make a list of specifically approved spells.

This could be good for a non-stone age campaign. The party is holing up in a cave for the night and finds primitive paintings on the wall. The wizard is looking out of the paintings out of curiosity/boredom and realizes that it's a spell he's not familiar with. Ancient magic ensues.

And yeah, a wizard would be limited, but could make for a good NPC and if a member of the party really wanted to play a wizard, I'd want to find a way to make that pseudo-logically happen.

[JackPhoenix]

Don't forget that with D&D monsters, heavier armor may be possible even with stone-age tech. Various giant arthopods shells (Ankheg plate, anyone?), Bulette Hide (if you manage to kill it somehow), even (possibly just shed, given the danger of their owners) dragon scales may offer armor at least comparable to metal. Even wooden armor is possible, with some magical plants (Bronzewood from Eberron comes to mind) just as good as metal, even if with the tech level you are limited to splint armor.

For weapons, there's Macuahuitl (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macuahuitl) and its relatives made from obsidian, shark teeth, whatever you can get your hand on. And don't forget Atlatl (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spear-thrower) for your ranged needs.

[Stormthroe]

Depending on what terrain you're looking to make the setting in, jungle tribes of aboriginis have practiced the same arts for thousands of years. Blowguns, poison knowledge, and even "magic" in the form of witch doctors and tribal shamans are all pretty common even in the ancient eras of some cultures, although I would say the focus on self-perfection was much less focused due to the daily equirements for survival.

The movie 10,000 BC would really be what I'd see as a D&D neolithic campaign; have the Elves or Dwarves, or other such long-lived races be the more developed "civilizations" that the PCs encounter, which I saw someone say previously. There's quite a bit you can do, but I think your encounters could be something like being ambushed by a rival tribe, attacked by an animal, or something equally sinister.

Is your campaign going to be set around the PCs all being a part of the same tribe? I ran a campaign recently where my PCs were part of a nomadic tribe and the PCs were the village hunters that their first quest was to hunt. They went hunting, and encountered a bear that they battled and killed, then went back only to find the nearby neighboring villagers were attacking the tribe's elders and their families. From there, they realized that a portion of their tribe had been captured by the enemy and taken as slaves, so the campaign was the journey across the land (through a haunted swamp, a dense jungle, and over a desert) until they caught up with the enemy tribe, while encounters along the way had them helping others and just generally surviving life as primitives. It wasn't bad, but there were times when my players weren't super entertained due to the Princess Peach circumstance of reaching a destination only to find their quarry had moved on, so I'd be careful. If I ran it again, it may have been better for a shorter campaign rather than the lengthy one I did.