Swift Action Spells

[legomaster00156]

While casting a spell that requires a round or longer to cast, do you still have access to swift actions? For example, while performing the 24-hour ritual for Awaken, are your swift actions still available to cast a Quickened Entangle?

[Snowbluff]

IMO, yes. Swift Actions are free action, and free actions can be performed at any time.

[legomaster00156]

IMO, yes. Swift Actions are free action, and free actions can be performed at any time.
No, they're not. You only get one single swift action per turn, it has very tightly defined limits, and then there's this (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat#TOC-Swift-Actions).

A swift action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort than a free action.

[Sacrieur]

Yes, you can use swift actions any time you could use a free action.

Note they're not a free action.

[legomaster00156]

So Blood Money Simulacrums are legal. :smalleek:

[Fouredged Sword]

So Blood Money Simulacrums are legal. :smalleek:

Yep. I have also seen the argument that you "Use" spell components at the start of a spell and so long as the components are used they don't disappear. You don't have to be finished using them, you just have to start using them before the end of your turn.

[Psyren]

You do have your swift/free/immediate actions (and 5-foot steps), but this won't work for another reason - you can't cast two spells at the same time.


To cast a spell, you must be able to speak (if the spell has a verbal component), gesture (if it has a somatic component), and manipulate the material components or focus (if any). Additionally, you must concentrate to cast a spell.


To cast a spell, you must concentrate.


You can't cast a spell while concentrating on another one.

As for Blood Money, the spell you cast with it must be cast within that same round. If it takes longer, blood money won't work.


When you cast another spell in that same round, your blood transforms into one material component of your choice required by that second spell.

[Snowbluff]

Simulacrum doesn't have a concentration duration.

No, they're not. You only get one single swift action per turn, it has very tightly defined limits, and then there's
this (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat#TOC-Swift-Actions).



Note they're not a free action.
Wow, taking the statement too literally there, especially since the answer you were looking for is literally in the next line.


So Blood Money Simulacrums are legal. :smalleek:

Yep.

[Psyren]

Simulacrum doesn't have a concentration duration.

I didn't say anything about duration.




Yep.

12 hours is longer than a round, so no.

[Snowbluff]

Counter pedantry, activate.

So you can effectively be casting only one spell at a time, correct?


A spell with a casting time of 1 swift action doesn't count against your normal limit of one spell per round.

[Fouredged Sword]

You are casting the spell by the end of your action. The fact that the spell doesn't complete until a later time doesn't play into that fact. You will have begun to cast the spell by the end of your turn. You have cast the spell during that round. You will continue the casting in following rounds.

[Psyren]

Counter pedantry, activate.

So you can effectively be casting only one spell at a time, correct?

Correct - you can cast as many spells per round as you have actions to do so (including effective actions/rounds e.g. from Time Stop), but must concentrate on them separately and therefore cast them separately. The limit in your quote has nothing to do with concentration as it is not mentioned.


You are casting the spell by the end of your action. The fact that the spell doesn't complete until a later time doesn't play into that fact. You will have begun to cast the spell by the end of your turn. You have cast the spell during that round. You will continue the casting in following rounds.

You are concentrating on the long-casting-time spell the entire time. If your concentration is interrupted for any reason, you lose the spell.

The actions required to cast it are not the issue here.

[Snowbluff]

Correct - you can cast as many spells per round as you have actions to do so (including effective actions/rounds e.g. from Time Stop), but must concentrate on them separately and therefore cast them separately. The limit in your quote has nothing to do with concentration as it is not mentioned.



You are concentrating on the long-casting-time spell the entire time. If your concentration is interrupted for any reason, you lose the spell.

The actions required to cast it are not the issue here.

It may not have anything to do with concentration, but it's quite clear that it avoids any limitations on the number of spells you may cast in one round. If you're casting one spell, that means you can't cast 2 in one round. Swift action spells contradict that.

[Psyren]

It may not have anything to do with concentration, but it's quite clear that it avoids any limitations on the number of spells you may cast in one round. If you're casting one spell, that means you can't cast 2 in one round. Swift action spells contradict that.

You're conflating two separate things; casting two spells at the same time and casting two spells in the same round are not the same thing. If I cast three spells - a swift spell, a move-action spell and a standard action spell - I have cast multiple spells that round, but none of them were cast at the same time. Thus it is possible to satisfy both rules; they are not mutually exclusive.

[Fouredged Sword]

You are concentrating on the long-casting-time spell the entire time. If your concentration is interrupted for any reason, you lose the spell.

The actions required to cast it are not the issue here.

Not quite. The order of actions are as follows

Swift action - Cast Blood Money
Remainder of turn - Cast long casting time spell with material costs.
Second turn+ - continue to cast

There is no interruption

Because you are casting the spell before the duration for blood money expires, you meet the criteria for the spell.

I realize that blood money is a broken spell. The wording is unclear and allows both readings.

[Psyren]

Not quite. The order of actions are as follows

Swift action - Cast Blood Money
Remainder of turn - Cast long casting time spell with material costs.
Second turn+ - continue to cast

There is no interruption

Right, but you haven't cast "long casting time spell" in "that same round" in that case, because it took you extra round(s) to cast. Therefore the blood money components won't be usable with it.

So you're correct that there would be no interruption with that order, but you'd also have to pay for the spell normally.

[Fouredged Sword]

I think we are running into a case of tenses being a little fuzzy. To me, you are casting a spell even if you don't finish the casting. You cast the spell on your one turn, continue to cast in on the next, and finish casting it on the last turn.

I think we are honestly just running into unclear wording. You reading is perfectly valid and I wouldn't raise an issue with any DM who used that reading. I have just seen it handled both ways.

[Psyren]

You are "casting a spell" but you haven't "cast a spell," at least not "in that same round."

I do appreciate the civility. To me, Blood Money is still plenty powerful even if you restrict it to 1-round spells and shorter.

[Deophaun]

I think we are running into a case of tenses being a little fuzzy. To me, you are casting a spell even if you don't finish the casting. You cast the spell on your one turn, continue to cast in on the next, and finish casting it on the last turn.

I think we are honestly just running into unclear wording. You reading is perfectly valid and I wouldn't raise an issue with any DM who used that reading. I have just seen it handled both ways.

I think your interpretation is right. If you had to complete the casting before blood money created the components, then you would actually be getting those components too late to use in the spell, in which case Blood money simply wouldn't work (which might be a good thing...).