Lizardfolk Totemists, natural weapons and soulmelds which grant them.

[Zaydos]

So I was thinking about monstrous PCs and the idea of a totemist came to mind and I started wondering about racial natural weapons and soulmeld granted ones. If someone was playing say a Lizardfolk and bound a soulmeld which grants a bite attack would they have 2 separate bite attacks? My gut says no, just like it says with Bite of the Weretiger, but I'd figure I'd ask the playground anyway for informative reasons.

And ok I was thinking about making a ghoul Totemist racial substitution that gave you Undead Meldshaper and let you apply your paralysis with soulmelds, which I am not 100% sure they don't anyway but I figured it wouldn't hurt to make clear, when I started wondering whether people would run it where you could make your racial bite in addition to a bite by a soulmeld.

[BowStreetRunner]

I don't see anything that states you get these as additional natural weapons so I would just treat them as alternatives to the character's normal natural weapons. They can use either one or the other but not both. (I know the corollary that some people would use is that there also isn't anything that says you don't get to use them in addition to your normal natural weapons. However, I would treat that as the more exceptional situation and the one for which I would need to see something explicit (RAW) before I accepted that it was intended (RAI).)

[Fouredged Sword]

Generally they overlap rather than stack. If something grants a bite attack and you already have a bite attack, you pick whatever grants the higher die.

It is still a great idea to have normal natural attacks on a totemist because you can then bind the totem avatar to your totem and get a great bonus to attack and damage with ALL natural weapons. You basically get +1 hp per meldshaper level and +1 natural armor, attack, and damage per essence invested. The bonus is a moral bonus, so it stacks with an amulet of natural attacks.

Once you can double bind it to your shoulders to increase the size of your natural weapons as well.

[Essence_of_War]

So I was thinking about monstrous PCs and the idea of a totemist came to mind and I started wondering about racial natural weapons and soulmeld granted ones. If someone was playing say a Lizardfolk and bound a soulmeld which grants a bite attack would they have 2 separate bite attacks? My gut says no, just like it says with Bite of the Weretiger, but I'd figure I'd ask the playground anyway for informative reasons.


As others have noted, they overlap rather than stack, so you'll have to be careful with what you're binding to your totem chakra.

The other thing about Lizardfolk is their ECL. A 1st level Lizardfolk totemist is ECL 4 (LA+1, 2 RHD, 1 character level). Yikes. And their racial hit dice are the marginal humanoid hit dice as opposed to the much better monstrous humanoid hit dice. Those racial hit dice are going to keep quite far behind the meldshaping curve for your entire career, even if you're able to buy-off your LA (you can't buy off RHD).

Now Poisondusk Lizardfolk, on the other hand...they're a viable option if, again, you choose your natural weapon granting soulmelds carefully. They also qualify for Scaled Horror if you want Improved Grab for a 1-level dip. The main problem there is the opportunity cost. Just off the top of my head: half-giant, goliath, azurin, duskling, skarn, human, orc (water? yeahhhh!), and warforged all have far better synergy with the totemist. The Skarn are even reptilian too, so they ALSO qualify for scaled horror, and they have none of the downsides (overlapping natural weapons, LA, size).

[Fouredged Sword]

Eh, I like Lizardfolk as a viable Totemist. The 2 racial HD hurt, but you pick up +5 natural armor, three natural weapons and +2 str and con. While not high optimization, they do stand on their own as a viable choice. By 6th level the LA is bought off and you are only 2 levels behind in totemist progression. Incarnum plays better with RHD than most systems, so the delay isn't felt as badly as it would if you took levels in wizard or something like that.

Between a mitheral brestplate and your natural armor, you are pretty set for AC. Bind heart of fire to your totem chakra for 3d4 fire damage to all natural weapons.

Lizardfolk RHD 2 / Barbarian 2 / Totemist 2 / Totem Rager X is a perfectly valid build.

[Chronos]

The other thing to be careful of is that a lot of natural weapon soulmelds put extra restrictions on what you can use them with. For instance, Threefold Mask of the Chimera gives you three bite attacks, but if you use them, those are the only weapons you can use that round, so they don't really work well with other natural weapons.

Really, it sometimes feels like Girallon Arms and Manticore Belt are the only viable options for natural weapon soulmelds, and that all the rest are just a waste.

[Fouredged Sword]

The other thing to be careful of is that a lot of natural weapon soulmelds put extra restrictions on what you can use them with. For instance, Threefold Mask of the Chimera gives you three bite attacks, but if you use them, those are the only weapons you can use that round, so they don't really work well with other natural weapons.

Really, it sometimes feels like Girallon Arms and Manticore Belt are the only viable options for natural weapon soulmelds, and that all the rest are just a waste.

astral vambraces take a feat to get your hands on, but provide 2 slams without requiring a bind to your totem. This is good for later levels when you are looking for any possible way to stack on more natural attacks.

[Taveena]

astral vambraces take a feat to get your hands on, but provide 2 slams without requiring a bind to your totem. This is good for later levels when you are looking for any possible way to stack on more natural attacks.

Other weapons that do that are Dragon Claws and Chaos Roc Span.

[danzibr]

Ever consider anthropomorphic giant octopus? At level 4 you can get something like 11 natural attacks.

EDIT: Plus, you're a freakin' giant octopus. How cool is that?