Witch Coven + Leadership = Profit?

[the_archduke]

Coven (Ex)

Effect: The witch counts as a hag for the purpose of joining a hag’s coven. The coven must contain at least one hag. In addition, whenever the witch with this hex is within 30 feet of another witch with this hex, she can use the aid another action to grant a +1 bonus to the other witch’s caster level for 1 round. This bonus applies to the witch’s spells and all of her hexes.

With Leadership, a witch can pick up a Hag as a cohort. Assuming a permissive GM and maxed out Leadership, the Witch can also pick up 163 witches as followers. All of these witches (and the Hag) can have the Coven ability.

Is it possible to get all 164 within 30' so they can boost your caster level by 164?

What marvels could one do with CL 184?

Edit:
The Ring of the Ecclesiarch and Suzerain Scepter each allow me to double the number of followers I get with leadership.

Would this triple or quadruple the number of witches I could get? 489 or 652.

Can I fit that many people within 30' of me and still cast?

[legomaster00156]

There will be up to 98 creatures in a 30 ft. radius. This is CL 118. As for what you can do with it? A lot.

[the_archduke]

Good news is they are all witches and can all cast reduce person. So if they are halflings and gnomes to start with, reduce person will make them tiny for at least 1 minute. 4 tiny creatures can fit in a 5' square.

I think that is the answer to getting them all within 30'.

This would not be easy to set up though, and the followers are not rated for combat like a 20th level character would be.

So this is a trick to do in one's sanctum.

What spells would do ridiculous things with a ridiculous CL?

Edit: First ridiculous thing.

At CL 118, a long range spell has a range of nearly a mile. At CL 672, over five miles

Edit: second ridiculous thing.

Spells that last minutes per level are good for many hours

Spells good for rounds per level last for multiple hours

Spells good for hours a level last days

[grarrrg]

Ratfolk (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-ratfolk) have an ability called "swarming", it lets you fit twice as many Ratfolk per space compared to regular creatures.
Do with this what you will.

[legomaster00156]

Ratfolk (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-ratfolk) have an ability called "swarming", it lets you fit twice as many Ratfolk per space compared to regular creatures.
Do with this what you will.
Combined with the above Reduce Person on Small creatures, we can achieve 8 Ratfolk Witches per space, with one space reserved for our Medium Hag. This totals up to 776 Ratfolk Witches in the remaining 97 spaces, and a total possible CL of 797.
We will now use a Reach Enlarged Major Creation to create a 797 cubic foot brick of... oh, let's say gold. We are dropping it from our maximum height of 64,560 feet in the air. The gold brick will weigh 961,843 pounds. Per the rules, it falls at a speed of approximately 500 feet in the first round, picking up every round afterwards, and will almost certainly reach terminal or near-terminal velocity before hitting the ground.
Make of the damages of this what you will.

[Pex]

I love Pathfinder. I really do. It is things like this that have me see the point of those who decry "broken" and "unbalanced" on any day that ends in a "y". (In English :smallbiggrin:)

Not sarcasm, congratulations on finding a new exploit of Theoretical Optimization. Well done. :smallsmile:

[legomaster00156]

I love Pathfinder. I really do. It is things like this that have me see the point of those who decry "broken" and "unbalanced" on any day that ends in a "y". (In English :smallbiggrin:)

Not sarcasm, congratulations on finding a new exploit of Theoretical Optimization. Well done. :smallsmile:
Well, I mean, it's Leadership. It's the most broken feat ever in both 3.5 and Pathfinder.

[Psyren]

As TO goes this is fairly tame; the whole thing is extremely GM dependent, even beyond the normal stopgap of "the GM can ban it." It relies on a GM sending you followers that have PC classes at all, and furthermore a very specific PC class, and all of those PC classes all chose the same hex at 1st-level, and let's say that Leadership lets you control all their actions too, and while we're at it let's say they're all a specific race so that we can cram as many of them as possible into a small radius.

To me this goes beyond "permissive DM" all the way to "complicit DM." They have to be actively assisting you to pull this off, rather than merely not stopping you.

[Harmelyo]

If you go for cheese, an easiest approach would be to simulacrum a small or smaller creature with the class and hex you are looking for.
You are already going for silly so lets put a pin on it and use Simulacrum + Blood money to create the exact follower you need.

I agree it will take you more time than leadership to get your "follower" but if you are high level enough you can cast simulacrum on yourself as well to get more simulacrum casters and increase the speed of the process.

Overall this method is less GM's dependent as you don't need him to throw more than one small or smaller witch/Shaman/Sorcerer with the coven hex at you to enable the process. After that it is just a game of patience and the result may be even more powerful depending on how small your witch simulacrum is...

[Psyren]

use Simulacrum + Blood money

Are we going to have even more threads about this? The combo don't work by RAW.

[Harmelyo]

Psyren, AFAIK it is still a grey area and none of the paizo dev have provided with an answer on the subject. If you have a such a link, I would be happy to be proved wrong.

Even if direct use is proved illegal, you can always loophole it using fabricate before hand to get your rubies grounded.

[Psyren]

Psyren, AFAIK it is still a grey area and none of the paizo dev have provided with an answer on the subject. If you have a such a link, I would be happy to be proved wrong.

Even if direct use is proved illegal, you can always loophole it using fabricate before hand to get your rubies grounded.

Rather than rehash this in another thread I'll direct you to the Blood Money abuse thread where both of these tactics have been discussed at length: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?446904-Blood-Money-Abuse/page2

[Snowbluff]

If you play a Samsaran, you can learn Simulacrum from the Summoner List, casting it as a 4th (or 5th) level spell. Then you can make a copy of a 200+ HD critter.
https://media.giphy.com/media/GCzcXnnfXk06s/giphy.gif
Of course, I don't know any 200+ HD critters, so *shrug*

[the_archduke]

Ratfolk don't deem to help by RAW

Swarming: Ratfolk are used to living and fighting communally, and are adept at swarming foes for their own gain and their foes' detriment. Up to two ratfolk can share the same square at the same time. If two ratfolk in the same square attack the same foe, they are considered to be flanking that foe as if they were in two opposite squares.

So if the ratfolk are tiny with Reduce Person, and normally 4 tiny creatures could share a square, Swarming says only two can share the square. It doesn't double unless we are talking about a normal sized ratfolk.

[the_archduke]

Simulacrum does seem to be the best way to do this. 500gp for a 1 HD witch with coven. 150000gp for a 300 CL boost seems like a great deal.

Are there any other ways than being a Samsaran or having the Eldritch Heritage: Arcane feat chain to get Simulacrum on the Witch spell list?

Edit:
Or can anyone other than Witches, Shaman and Hexcrafter Magi use hexes?

[Bucky]

Edit:
Or can anyone other than Witches, Shaman and Hexcrafter Magi use hexes?

Variant Multiclass (Witch) makes them generally available.