So You Wanna Slay Gods [3.5, heavily WIP]

[Bad Wolf]

Killing Deities: A Guide to Deicide


Index
1: Introduction
2: Dieties

Introduction

Welcome, my fellow power-hungry forum members.

Ever since the first stat block crawled out of the primordial sea (I may be mixing up my creation myths), people in the dark corners of the internet have devised up plans on how to kill it. If it has stats it can be killed, which is probably why developers never got around to stat Ao or the Lady of Pain.

But I digress. You didn't come here for some long-winded introduction, you came here to find out how to kill dieties. So let's get right into it.

[Bad Wolf]

God #1: Imhotep, Egyptian Pantheon.

First off, a couple houserules which I hope are not too lenient:1: Dragon Magazine counts as legitimate, all other materials will be from official D&D sources.
2: Wish cannot be used to to wish for more powerful effects.
2b: Neither can Miracle.
3: LA buyoff in effect.
4: Persisted timestops dont work.
5: The gods are not constantly layering on buffs or anything, they are simply residing in their domains. If Caius (chose that name off the top of my head) for example casts a spell, any gods of magic would be able to sense it and act accordingly.
6: No Epic Spellcasting. If I think of any others that need to be addressed, I'll add them. But for now, let's get to the slaying.

Analysis

Imhotep is the weakest god ever. Look at his stats. Divine rank 0, and 20 levels of expert. Even by God standards, that's pretty weak. But he is still a god, so he gets a variety of SLA's. The only one you need to look out for is Prismatic Sphere. So buy a scroll of Greater Spell Immunity for that, cast Shapechange and turn into a Joystealer or other incorporeal, and destroy him with Orbs of Sound. Remember to fly out of reach and hit him with a Dimensional Anchor.


God #2: Odur, Asgardian Pantheon.

Analysis

Odur is a demigod of the Sun, with 20 levels of Fighter and 20 of Sorcerer. Normally the sorcrer levels would be troubling, until you look at his spells. 90% of them can be avoided by a Ring of Fire Immunity. Also due to the armor he's wearing, he has a 15% arcane spell failure chance. He has some scrying spells, but that can be blocked by a Nondetection, if you're worried about that. So that leaves his sword and spell like abilities.

Damn, his sword's pretty nasty. Nah, just kidding. It's Brilliant Energy, which means our Warforged Wizard (he has some anti-undead abilities) can laugh it off. That leaves the SLAs, which are mostly fire and chaos-based. So our Chaotic Evil Warforged Wizard with Fire Immunity only needs to worry about...

SLAs: Prismatic Sphere, Sunbeam, Sunburst
Spells: Weird, Prismatic Spray, Power Word Blind, and Meteor Swarm (bludgeoning damage)
Items: Deflecting shield property.

And if we cast Mind Blank and Stoneskin...

SLAs: Prismatic Sphere, Sunburst, Sunbeam
Spells: Prismatic Spray, Meteor Swarm (up to 2 points of bludgeoning a round, how amazing)
Items: Deflecting shield property.

But wait! Let's purchase a scroll of Greater Spell Immunity! Now the only way he can hurt us whatsoever is by the Deflecting Shield property. This is the point at where you cast Gate repeatedly and kill him with five or so Red Great Wyrms. Hit him with a Dimensional Anchor to stop him from fleeing.

[Bad Wolf]

Reserved. ...

[Bad Wolf]

Reserved. ....

[Bad Wolf]

Reserved. .....

[Bad Wolf]

02/10/2015: Added in Introduction, started on Imhotep.
03/10/2015: Finished method 1 for Imhotep, changed houserules.
04/10/2015: Added Odur.

[Madara]

Is this going to be more of a handbook discussing a variety of methods of killing gods and analyzing their individual abilities, or is this a catchy title for a single build?

[Bad Wolf]

Is this going to be more of a handbook discussing a variety of methods of killing gods and analyzing their individual abilities, or is this a catchy title for a single build?

The first one. I was originally planning on one build, but I realized that even a level 20th Wizard can't do everything. I'm in the middle of rewriting the handbook.

[Aharon]

Why shouldn't the gods be constantly layering buffs? They became gods in a multiverse of murder-hobos...

But even without layering defenses... For Imhotep: Divination "in what 6-second interval should I ready an action to cast Prismatic sphere in response to somebody casting celerity?"

Also, Persistent Time stop doesn't work - it's duration is apparent time, not real time.

[Bad Wolf]

Why shouldn't the gods be constantly layering buffs? They became gods in a multiverse of murder-hobos...

But even without layering defenses... For Imhotep: Divination "in what 6-second interval should I ready an action to cast Prismatic sphere in response to somebody casting celerity?"

Also, Persistent Time stop doesn't work - it's duration is apparent time, not real time.

I remember seeing a quote somewhere that said "Gods have great power, but only mortals can think outside the box". So they're just relaxing in their realms, unless their portfolio sense tips them off.

Hmm, guess I'll modify that. A Maximized Extended Time Stop works just as well.

[Aharon]

I remember seeing a quote somewhere that said "Gods have great power, but only mortals can think outside the box". So they're just relaxing in their realms, unless their portfolio sense tips them off.

Hmm, guess I'll modify that. A Maximized Extended Time Stop works just as well.

Well, it takes away half the challenge... And Imhotep was a mortal so good at building pyramids that he was made a god - thereby thinking quite outside of the box, as it normally requires lots of adventuring and questing to become a god :smallbiggrin:

I would stop at anything that completely alters their printed stats (like Imhotep using True Creatioon to get infinite Wealth and deck himself out with magic items), but otherwise use them the way a competent player would (=> regularly casting available defensive buffs, use spells/spell-like abilities from the Divination school regularly), maybe allowing for less preparation if their int/wis is low (but afaik, they all have int/wis in the 20ies, beating non-magically aided geniuses). The maximized extended time stop doesn't outlast the prismatic sphere, so your searing delayed blast fireballs go off without harming imhotep. Also, the Spellcraft DC is non-trivial - you need to use instant metamagic on maximize, and then extend the Timestop, for a modified level of 15 => Spellcraft DC 63. 23 ranks plus ~15 int doesn't suffice, you need additional stuff to pull that off (if you still want to - the idea to prepare the battlefield is sound, though your brute force approach is too simplistic).

[Bad Wolf]

Well, it takes away half the challenge... And Imhotep was a mortal so good at building pyramids that he was made a god - thereby thinking quite outside of the box, as it normally requires lots of adventuring and questing to become a god :smallbiggrin:

I would stop at anything that completely alters their printed stats (like Imhotep using True Creatioon to get infinite Wealth and deck himself out with magic items), but otherwise use them the way a competent player would (=> regularly casting available defensive buffs, use spells/spell-like abilities from the Divination school regularly), maybe allowing for less preparation if their int/wis is low (but afaik, they all have int/wis in the 20ies, beating non-magically aided geniuses). The maximized extended time stop doesn't outlast the prismatic sphere, so your searing delayed blast fireballs go off without harming imhotep. Also, the Spellcraft DC is non-trivial - you need to use instant metamagic on maximize, and then extend the Timestop, for a modified level of 15 => Spellcraft DC 63. 23 ranks plus ~15 int doesn't suffice, you need additional stuff to pull that off (if you still want to - the idea to prepare the battlefield is sound, though your brute force approach is too simplistic).

The DC for Metamagic Effect is based off the spell slot the spell would use. Instant Metamagic makes it so that one of the feats used (Maximize Spell) dies not alter the level. And I think you're forgetting that Extend Spell only bumps up the spell slot by one. So the DC would be 48.

23 ranks in spellcraft, 18 base INT, +2 from race, +5 from Tome, +6 Headband, +5 from levels, +3 Spellcraft from butterfly familiar, +2 from feat= +42 Spellcraft modifer. And if he loses that, Luck domain power from giving up a Wizard bonus feat gives him a reroll.

[Aharon]

The DC for Metamagic Effect is based off the spell slot the spell would use. Instant Metamagic makes it so that one of the feats used (Maximize Spell) dies not alter the level. And I think you're forgetting that Extend Spell only bumps up the spell slot by one. So the DC would be 48.

23 ranks in spellcraft, 18 base INT, +2 from race, +5 from Tome, +6 Headband, +5 from levels, +3 Spellcraft from butterfly familiar, +2 from feat= +42 Spellcraft modifer. And if he loses that, Luck domain power from giving up a Wizard bonus feat gives him a reroll.

Yep, forgot about the interaction between instant metamagic and metamagic effect, my bad.

Thanks for providing stats.
That's 137.500 gp for the tome and 36.000 gp for the headband of intellect, leaving 586.500 gp for other stuff.
Also, you're taking a +int race - which one? Grea elf?
Which feat gives +2 to spellcraft again?

So you take Domain Granted Power at 5th level?

You didn't answer my point on gods being prepared - it's your guide, I would understand if you sticked to your ruling. Just think it takes some punch out of the gods.

[Bad Wolf]

Yep, forgot about the interaction between instant metamagic and metamagic effect, my bad.

Thanks for providing stats.
That's 137.500 gp for the tome and 36.000 gp for the headband of intellect, leaving 586.500 gp for other stuff.
Also, you're taking a +int race - which one? Grea elf?
Which feat gives +2 to spellcraft again?

So you take Domain Granted Power at 5th level?

You didn't answer my point on gods being prepared - it's your guide, I would understand if you sticked to your ruling. Just think it takes some punch out of the gods.

Yeah, probably Gray Elf. Or a Drow, for no penalties. Magical Apptitude gives +2 to Spellcraft and Use Magic Device. And yeah, taking domain granted power at fifth.

Sorry about that bit, had to go. I don't think Imhotep would be super paranoid about attackers, so no constant divinations. But he'll have a Foresight on.

[Bad Wolf]

Added Odur, and streamlined the Imhotep bit.

[Aharon]

Added Odur, and streamlined the Imhotep bit.

@Imhotep+Odur
Spell Immunity only works for spells up to 8th level. I'm not sure right now, but I think spell-like abilities inherit the effective level of the spell they are based on for those purposes?
@Odur
You're consistently playing the gods as if they were totally stupid. When not in melee, the shield can be dropped to get rid of the ASF and cast his long-term buffs (of which there are regrettably few - Foresight, Magic Circle agains law, on first sight). Similarly, he could cast dispel magic on his sword to attack you normally - or just drop it and attack you unarmed - those are just of the top of my head and not genius solutions. He certainly wouldn't ineffectively continue to hit you with his sword.

Also, interesting strategy to attack him with great wyrm red dragons - which happen to be fire creatures that he can rebuke :smalltongue: (and maybe, depending on how greater turning interacts with rebuking, even command).