Smartest Wizard Alive(3.5)

[sambouchah]

I remember a long time ago I would see people talk about Collegiate Wizard and Greyhawk Method. I haven't seen it that much more recently, but I remember seeing threads about Sorcerers pushing T1 if they could take Greyhawk Method. I always wondered exactly how much those Feats were worth for a Wizard though.

I mean a Wizard can already learn any number of spells they wish(so long as they room in their book), so why(other than the +2 Knowledge(Arcana) from Collegiate Wizard IIRC) would you use your feat slot to take these? It is a cheap way of gaining new spells, I will admit, but is saving a bit of gold worth a precious feat slot?

-Sam

[Kraken]

Once you start playing, wizards can learn any spell...that your DM will place in the game world in the form of a scroll or spellbook. Things such as collegiate wizard give you greater access to powerful spells that you might otherwise not find in your DM's game world.

[sambouchah]

Once you start playing, wizards can learn any spell...that your DM will place in the game world in the form of a scroll or spellbook. Things such as collegiate wizard give you greater access to powerful spells that you might otherwise not find in your DM's game world.

In my experience I can usually talk to my DM about spells I'd like to know or they just naturally throw casters at our party to help counter party casters(if there are two or more party casters). So I guess for me it hasn't really been a problem, though I do see now that those Feats can be extremely useful in a situation like you've described.

Doesn't Spellcraft allow you to know a particular spell being cast, and can you then not learn it after study? Or am I just making that up and completely wrong? Its been a minute since I last played and I am getting rusty.

[Kraken]

In my experience I can usually talk to my DM about spells I'd like to know or they just naturally throw casters at our party to help counter party casters(if there are two or more party casters). So I guess for me it hasn't really been a problem, though I do see now that those Feats can be extremely useful in a situation like you've described.

Doesn't Spellcraft allow you to know a particular spell being cast, and can you then not learn it after study? Or am I just making that up and completely wrong? Its been a minute since I last played and I am getting rusty.

You can identify spells being cast with spellcraft (PHB has a description of how it works), but that's not necessary to learn them. You could, for instance at level 3, still learn glitterdust even if you've never seen it used before, or encountered it in written form. You get two free spells in your book with every wizard level. Whether you get every other spell that you want/need is purely in the hands of your DM, which will vary dramatically from table to table. Collegiate wizard is just an option to give more power to the player in this regard, unless a DM outright bans a particular spell.

[gorfnab]

Collegiate Wizard and Greyhawk Method see use in the Easy Bake Wizard progression (see handbook in my signature).

[sambouchah]

You can identify spells being cast with spellcraft (PHB has a description of how it works), but that's not necessary to learn them. You could, for instance at level 3, still learn glitterdust even if you've never seen it used before, or encountered it in written form. You get two free spells in your book with every wizard level. Whether you get every other spell that you want/need is purely in the hands of your DM, which will vary dramatically from table to table. Collegiate wizard is just an option to give more power to the player in this regard, unless a DM outright bans a particular spell.

I knew that bit about not needing to have encountered a spell to learn it, I just didn't know of you could use Spellcraft to learn spells that you didn't choose at a given level. Say I already chose my two spells, then used Spellcraft to identify a spell being cast, could I then learn it or would I have to use one of my two freebies per level?


Collegiate Wizard and Greyhawk Method see use in the Easy Bake Wizard progression (see handbook in my signature).

That's a whole lot of spells to keep track of, but I love the array of spell selection.

I'm not saying these Feats are bad, I'm just wondering if it's really worth the Feat slot. I prefer Precocious Apprentice to either if I'm only getting one Feat at level 1.

[Uncle Pine]

I initially misread "Greyhawk Method" as "Nexus Method", which is another little gem itself.
After clearing the misunderstanding, I'd say that they're both really nice feats. Sure, as a Wizard you can hunt down every spell that isn't in your spellbook and add it to your collection, but this takes time away from adventuring and if you try to get every useful spell you'll see that the scribing costs start to add up really quickly. Thus, I usually stuff that feat in every GOD Wizard I build that has some free feat slots.

[sleepyphoenixx]

If retraining is allowed there's really no reason not to take it. Free spells are free spells, you can spend the gold on other things and most other wizard feats either don't do much at low levels (metamagic) or you don't qualify for yet.
There's also Psychic Reformation unless your DM bans psionics, and paying a few XP to save possibly weeks of time and thousands of gold is a pretty good deal.

Even if you'll have to keep it you're still saving a lot of time & money, both of which can be important depending on the game.
If your party is in a constant race against time you may never have the opportunity to get new spells otherwise.
In some games you just don't have time to spend a day scribing a spell, let alone a week or more for several.

[sambouchah]

If retraining is allowed there's really no reason not to take it. Free spells are free spells, you can spend the gold on other things and most other wizard feats either don't do much at low levels (metamagic) or you don't qualify for yet.
There's also Psychic Reformation unless your DM bans psionics, and paying a few XP to save possibly weeks of time and thousands of gold is a pretty good deal.

Even if you'll have to keep it you're still saving a lot of time & money, both of which can be important depending on the game.
If your party is in a constant race against time you may never have the opportunity to get new spells otherwise.
In some games you just don't have time to spend a day scribing a spell, let alone a week or more for several.

I didn't think about time sensitive campaigns where you have X amount of time to do the quest

[Kelb_Panthera]

Once you start playing, wizards can learn any spell...that your DM will place in the game world in the form of a scroll or spellbook.

There is one other method for getting spells, though it's far and away the most expensive and time consuming; spell research.

It's 1000gp and 1 week each per spell level of the spell and it requires a spellcraft check but the only way a DM can say no to it working with a printed spell is to either ban the spell or make sure you never get any down time.

[Uncle Pine]

Another thing I forgot in my previous post: remember that regardless of downtime being a thing in your DM's campaign, 4,550 gp (plus whatever you need to scribe the spells) for two Plane Shift scrolls will let you add an indefinite amount of spells as a standard action. A minor ring of the Diamond Mind (Moment of Perfect Mind) can help to avoid insanity if you have 3,000 gp to spare on top of that.
The setup: activate Plane Shift as a standard action. Go to the Far Realm. Add all the spells to your spellbook. Remember to roll against insanity (Will DC 20) as soon as you enter the Far Realm and once every hour after that. When you're done, activate Plane Shift and get back to the Prime Material. Since 1 round in the Far Realm = 0 rounds in the Material Plane, you just added all those spells to your spellbook as a standard action.

[AvatarVecna]

Another thing I forgot in my previous post: remember that regardless of downtime being a thing in your DM's campaign, 4,550 gp (plus whatever you need to scribe the spells) for two Plane Shift scrolls will let you add an indefinite amount of spells as a standard action. A minor ring of the Diamond Mind (Moment of Perfect Mind) can help to avoid insanity if you have 3,000 gp to spare on top of that.
The setup: activate Plane Shift as a standard action. Go to the Far Realm. Add all the spells to your spellbook. Remember to roll against insanity (Will DC 20) as soon as you enter the Far Realm and once every hour after that. When you're done, activate Plane Shift and get back to the Prime Material. Since 1 round in the Far Realm = 0 rounds in the Material Plane, you just added all those spells to your spellbook as a standard action.

To build on this trick:

1) Be a Venerable Grey Elf Wizard 9+ with the Elf Wizard ACF, Collegiate Wizard, and Leadership; have your Cohort have the same build as you.

2) Buy a minor ring of Diamond Mind and a Blessed Book for each of you.

3) Plane Shift to Far Realm, ignore insanity, copy each other's Blessed Books, and return.

You each now have all the spells the both of you had. If you take Leadership at level 9, and Plane Shift as one your 5th level spells, you can carefully work your cohorts spell list to share no spells with you (other than cantrips), and you've nearly doubled your spells "known".