How to play Charisma 6? How do you perceive dump stats?

[Spore]

A "cornerstone" to many optimized builds in this forum is a dumped Charisma stat. While not desirable the drawback is often less severe than the upsides. And my Oni Spawn (Tiefling) Alchemist so happens to have Charisma 6, being a giant red humanoid with a horrible fashion sense, clothes drenched in alchemical solutions and faintly smelling of chlorine and other remedies most of the time.

And my questions is: Am I required to play out my Charisma to others? How should low Charisma be portrayed? Is being mean and unempathetic to almost everyone around too much?

"Why are you crying that your parents died, little girl? They didn't suffer, it was just a quick pierce through their brains. Mostly painless."

And on the meta side of things: How disagreeable are you to dumped stats? How to you perceive a player doing a smart move or acting charming despite their natural shortcomings? Do you consider it power-roleplaying?

I naturally respond to the saying: "Your alchemist has less Charisma than an Ape." with the answer: "Yes, and the average human has less Charisma than a Velociraptor."

[OldTrees1]

Charisma is responsible for:
Your ability to discern between self and not-self.
Your social strength.
How people react to you.
...

Like most stats, Charisma is not a single trait, so deficiencies in charisma can be small/broad or sharp/narrow.

They might comes off as "A jerk"/"A wimp"/"A loser"/"A ___" to everyone...
They might be easily manipulated... (What Cha does Thog have?)
Or they might be a milder mix of the 2...
Or... (there is never just 1 way to do something)

I like 6s and 8s (but not 7s or 9s :P) but 4s tend to be hard to do (especially for mental abilities since there is such a gap between player mind and PC mind).

I don't like it when a 6 or an 8 is ignored. Which is different from someone RPing a 6/8 that occasionally gets a smart/wise/persuasive idea (Even a fool say speak words of wisdom).

[Azoth]

A dumped Charisma score can be played any number of ways. You could be painfully meek in social situations, not talking much or talking very softly. You could have the empathy of a raging badger, and not be able to understand and emulate the emotions of those around you well. You could be a jerk, who constantly rubs people raw in an infinitely vast number of ways ( one upper, constantly comparative, talk over everyone, ect). You'd could have an off putting nervous tic that flares up when surrounded by people. You could just be a hardcore introvert. There are more ways to represent it I am sure, but there are a few examples.

[Essence_of_War]

And my questions is: Am I required to play out my Charisma to others? How should low Charisma be portrayed? Is being mean and unempathetic to almost everyone around too much?

And on the meta side of things: How disagreeable are you to dumped stats? How to you perceive a player doing a smart move or acting charming despite their natural shortcomings? Do you consider it power-roleplaying?

I mean, it's a roleplaying game, you can roleplay your character as well, as in-depth, and as accurately as you and your gaming groups preferences allow. I think being and unempathetic is sort of reductionist to what low charisma means, and kind of wrong. In D&D, empathy is sort of part alignment, part wisdom. Here are some remarks from an old thread:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18432905&postcount=21



...

Batman is a perfect example of a person with high Charisma and negative people skills. He says virtually nothing, but when he speaks everyone shuts up. He doesn't tell people what to do half the time; his glare is enough to motivate. He doesn't have to threaten his enemies for them to start wetting themselves.

...

That's force of personality. The ability to get what you want, communicate what you need, accomplish what you desire, simply by having such a profound presence that the world rushes to accommodate.


A low charisma means a lot of things, but a decent place to start might be that you have trouble influencing people, trouble getting people to listen to you, and trouble being taken seriously.

You don't lie well. And it's not necessarily that you can't think of "good lies" (that might be intelligence or wisdom), it's that your whole package, your body language, your choice of words, your tone, your inflections just don't sell the story. No one finds you warm and friendly and it's not because you necessarily can't figure what they want (that might be wisdom or intelligence again), but even when you try to connect with people you give off a sense more of an android going through people motions, than of a genuine interpersonal connection. You're the shadow that gets cast from a light pole. People will notice you if they look, but you're not where their eyes are drawn to, and you're not who they look to lead them in stressful situations.

[AmberVael]

Low charisma can manifest quite a few different ways, if you ask me. Being disagreeable and unpleasant is certainly one take on it, but another route I've been experimenting with recently is just playing the quiet, unassertive individual. Its not that they're unpleasant at all, but that they have little to no force of personality- their words aren't as moving, and its more difficult for them to speak out in the first place. They're the sort of person who mumbles or stutters or who hesitates rather than speaking with confidence. Or you could play a character who is simply unsociable in a different route- they're not quiet or unassertive, but terse and disinterested. The kind of person who will respond with a grunt or a scowl or just ignore you altogether.

I'd keep in mind this- low charisma doesn't necessarily mean lack of empathy. You can be a nice person, and recognized as a nice person, and have low charisma. You can be a suave, charismatic person who despises everyone and has zero sympathy for their lessers. Charisma is about your ability to persuade, your social skill and confidence.



They might be easily manipulated... (What Cha does Thog have?)

This is not charisma, this is wisdom. Wisdom lets you see through lies (Sense Motive) and understand the motivations of others, and resist attempts to control or influence you via spells or other means.

[EisenKreutzer]

Stats should be part of the mechanical guidelines for how you roleplay your caracter. They should inform your roleplaying, but needn't hinder or complicate it.

That said, an extremely low charisma score should be rflected in your rolelaying.
If I have a player who roleplays a charismatic character despite a low Charisma score, I simply tailor the NPCs responses accordingy.
He might be choosing the right words, but his demeanor, attitude, tone of voice and body language makes people uncomfortable and prone to distrust and maybe even fear him.

[Nifft]

1 - Talk less in-character. Participate by telling other people what to say.

2 - Talk less out-of-character. Say things that everyone is thinking, but which nobody is saying in-character.

3 - Talk less in general. Point, grunt, making a stabbing motion with your hand, and roll the die.

[Troacctid]

Your character is an Alchemist, so he isn't stupid. He knows he's not good in social situations. That's why he does his best to stay out of them in the first place and let other characters do the talking. He's well aware that if he rolls a Bluff or Diplomacy check with his grand total modifier of -2, he'll probably just make things worse, so he simply doesn't do that and sticks to what he's actually good at (sometimes literally, in the case of certain adhesive substances).

How you decide to play this is up to you. Maybe he just doesn't care, and thinks fluffy-duffy chit-chat is genuinely uninteresting. Maybe he's grumpy and antisocial and goes off on a grouchy rant when people bother him with trivial matters like pleasantries and manners. Or maybe you just let him fade into the background when Charisma is called for, without making a big deal of it--that's allowed too.

Of course, this assumes he isn't putting ranks in social skills to try and be proficient in spite of his penalties. If that's the case, you can ignore everything I just said.

[elonin]

Charisma is responsible for:
Your ability to discern between self and not-self.

This seems more like wisdom than charisma to me.

A low charisma could be caring less about social niceties even if you are aware of them to some extent. It could be the fact that your alchemist isn't concerned about walking around smelling like his preparations. Could be grumbling about being distracted from what he feels is important. Or maybe just in general rubbing people the wrong way and they take his comments the wrong way.

[OldTrees1]

This seems more like wisdom than charisma to me.

A low charisma could be caring less about social niceties even if you are aware of them to some extent. It could be the fact that your alchemist isn't concerned about walking around smelling like his preparations. Could be grumbling about being distracted from what he feels is important. Or maybe just in general rubbing people the wrong way and they take his comments the wrong way.

While it initially sounds more like Wisdom than Charisma, D&D RAW has it pegged as Charisma and for decent reason.

Wis: "Any creature that can perceive its environment in any fashion has at least 1 point of Wisdom."
Cha: "Any creature capable of telling the difference between itself and things that are not itself has at least 1 point of Charisma."

So while anyone with Cha can tell where its body ends and another thing begins, the strength of that discernment is Cha based (which shows up in social vulnerabilities).

[Red Fel]

Here are some remarks from an old thread:

Teehee, I've been quoted!
Be afraid, Red Fel just giggled.
Yeah, very much this. Charisma is, in simplest terms, your ability to enforce your will upon the universe. While others have correctly noted that Wisdom is your ability to resist others, it is your Charisma that gets them to do what you want.

Think of it this way. Your character can be smart. Brilliant, even. Your character can have the unique ability to take any idea, plan, or concept and express it in terms so plain and firm as to demand the listener's assent.

Low Charisma means that the listener still won't give a flying toss.

Low Charisma means that you can be persuasive, you can be charming, you can be as prodigious in your social interactions as you like, and nobody will care. Maybe it's that you're physically repellent or have odious personal habits. Maybe you have one of those whiny, nasally, wimpy voices that people just disregard. Maybe you just plain sound dumb, no matter what you're saying. Whatever the reason, low Charisma means that people don't care.

Now, ordinarily, a good way to RP this is, as others have said, to have an introverted social style. I don't mean a weak personality - again, that's the line between Cha and Wis - but rather an unwillingness to press your opinions or desires on others, and a perceived lack of personal strength when it comes to attempting to do so. You can still be stubborn in your refusal to obey others - Wis again - but you can't make a good show of persuading them to heed you, either.

If the concern is a player trying to meta around his dumped Charisma, it's actually very easy to handle. As I said above, it means that no matter how charming, erudite, or eloquent you are, nobody seems to notice or care. The player can meta all he likes, but his low Cha means that people simply disregard him, as they would a particularly annoying cat mewling in the corner. They tune him out. Which could lead to very amusing RP, if the player is willing to take it in stride.

[Tohsaka Rin]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m77yjcvBgu1r4lquro1_400.png


By taking lessons from the poster boy for 'Low-Cha, party face'.

EDIT - Since Fel was being so eloquent, I felt the need to un-glib my post.

Another option is that, instead of meek, you're loud, and thick-headed. You believe you're the best there is at what you do, and that's apparently out-talking the party Bard.

Also, you're surrounded by idiots who don't know genius when they hear it, and simply cannot fathom why they won't listen to you. After all, you're the one with the great ideas, right?

[Elric VIII]

Cha is also a reflection on your appearance. I have a tiefling magus with a 6 Cha. He is described as having a demonic appearance that unsettles others. I also happen to have the clever wordplay trait (Int instead of Cha for diplomacy) to represent my use of cunning in dealing with others to overcome the reaction to my appearance.

Each stat is an amalgamation of different character aspects, so representing it by a single number does not always give an accurate picture. Maybe my 6 Cha comes from a -8 appearance Cha, plus a +4 personality Cha, meaning that my looks outweigh my ability to be personable in my interactions.

[Aldrakan]

Part of how our DM deals with the character in our party with terrible charisma is to say that any clumsiness in how he expresses what he's trying to say is reflected in how the character's own expression. This sometimes includes taking out-of-character reactions or snarking and making them things the character actually said. This is more for the shy, just not good at talking to people character type.

[TimeWizard]

Given your character description, there's nothing wrong with roleplaying a "normal" charisma level but the NPC's react badly because your a persecuted, second class freak. I don't need to go into real world examples, but marginalized people have a tougher time dealing with close minded majority people due to social stigma. You might have even internalized that subconsciously, suggesting that your character is subtly giving body language cues not to be taken seriously.

Then again, you could just be an abrasive jerk.

[Larrx]

There's a ton of good advice above, but I have one other idea that might be fun. You could play the character as sort of a geek. When discussing important matters you could go into tangents about how an analogous situation once happened in alchemy camp. Prattle on about decoctions and titrations and volatility and other things that no one else understands, and watch eyes glaze over. Could be fun.

[Mystral]

A Charisma of 6 isn't _that_ low. You're not completely without empathy, just like a person with strength 6 is not an invalid or a person with intelligence 6 isn't completely retarded.

An attribute score of 6 translates to a -2 skill modifier. This means that, all things being equal, a person with charisma 6 is about 20% less persuasive than a person with charisma 10. So, you're not completely without empathy, and you're not repulsive. You're just a bit unpleasent and cold.

Contrast a charisma score of 14. Nobody would play a character with this score as the ultimate smoothtalker and seducer. He's just a bit above the curve. Charisma 6 is just a bit below the curve.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

For the lulz you could always try channeling a stereotypical RPG player? :smallbiggrin:

[hamishspence]

Contrast a charisma score of 14. Nobody would play a character with this score as the ultimate smoothtalker and seducer. He's just a bit above the curve. Charisma 6 is just a bit below the curve.

If the non-elite array represents "the curve"

13,12,11,10,9,8

Then 14 is one point above, but 6 is 2 points below.

Assuming most humans in a D&D world use arrays (the elite array, the non-elite array, etc) with a very few actually "rolling" then 6's will be much rarer than would be the case with "the vast majority of people roll 3d6".

[tadkins]

As far as examples of low-CHA characters go, I used to think this was a good example.

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/poohadventures/images/7/7e/Fluttershy_ID_S4E16.png/revision/latest?cb=20140504220903

But there have been moments for this character displaying a scary, super-maxxed, through-the-roof CHA.

http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/fluttershy1_2843.jpg

So it's tough to say! CHA is probably the hardest stat to define, imo.

[Jowgen]

The way I explain Charisma it to my players is using the idea of the generic anime protagonists.

The generic anime protagonist has an unwavering strength of spirit, with deeply held convictions and an infectious demeanor that just makes others want to follow him. He's not the smartest of the team (Low Int). He's often gullible, blissfully unaware of reality and completely lacking in common sense (Low Wis). Hell, most of the time it seems like a terrible idea to have that dude in charge, but he is still the leader and thus protagonist anyway. Because his massive Charisma is just inspiring.

My two most commonly used examples:

http://images2.fanpop.com/image/photos/12800000/Luffy-monkey-d-luffy-12882114-750-600.jpghttp://orig11.deviantart.net/c6d1/f/2010/168/b/2/kamina__s_motto_by_newmystery356.jpg

Conversely, low charisma means you are NOT at all like the protagonist. You frequently doubt yourself, eventually always go along with what the protagonist says, and you will not be the one to push past your limits in a dramatic all-or-nothing final attack. You instinctively know that you -despite all your amazing skills- don't have what it takes to be the real man in charge, so you cast yourself in a supporting role. You compensate for the protagonists' weaknesses. Sure, you're awesome in your own right, but you are not the man in charge.

As a little rule-wise back up of this, consider the charm line of spells. Even though they let the affected keep their free will, you can still give them true orders by beating them in an opposed charisma check. It is literally your personality being so strong that theirs just can't help but fall in line on its own accord.

[Barstro]

Roleplaying low charisma is a two-way street. A lot of it has to do with reactions.

While others have basically said that being a wallflower is a trait of low charisma, I disagree. Those two are not intertwined. I've met many people who completely rub others the wrong way but will never shut up.

For starters, I would do this;
Even opening their mouths around NPCs will make skill checks for other party members more difficult.
Not opening their mouths, but being around NPCs would eventually have the same effect, given enough time to see his horrible body language.
Prices from merchants would increase. If the city is large enough that the stores have fixed prices, then it would result in lesser quality or particular items "no longer in stock".
Other PCs should discount what that PC says. (I know he's right, but I hate him so much that I will not do it, out of spite).

[Psyren]

I think both interpretations of "low Cha" are viable (outgoing but abrasive, or reticent and diffident.) The player should pick the one they'll have the most fun RP'ing. For me, I tend to pair it with the other mental stats on the character I'm playing as follows:

Low Cha, High Int: With these characters chances are I'll be doing a lot of talking, because they need me to make Knowledge checks and the like. So there I go with the abrasive type, and have him helpfully upbraid all the other party members for skipping school or not knowing what he considers to be basic knowledge. And honestly, the dunderheads should be grateful; if they end up resenting me, well, it's just one more tribulation that people with my obvious genius have to endure.

Low Cha, High Wis: These characters have piercing insight but tend to hang back until called on, and go along with the party's suggestions on things except when they notice something (via Perception or Sense Motive) that the others don't.

All mentals low: This character tends to be a martial class, since that's the only reason I'd have for being that mentally stunted as an adventurer. So the attitude I have there is "just point me at the bad guys" and having little patience for chatter or strategy.

[Ravian]

I have a low charisma character (coincidentally also a tiefling alchemist) that I'm playing as basically a sociopath (if a high functioning one). He took some of the traits to let him substitute intelligence for charisma skills so he's very adept at running through the motions of social interactions, but in actuality has very little sense of empathy or ability to relate to people, relying on logic and rhetoric to substitute this inability.

Of course, Charisma is one of the most varied skills in its description so it can mean a lot of things. For example, consider racial penalties. Dwarves take a charisma penalty which is often interpreted as a rather gruff personality that doesn't relate well to others. Tieflings' charisma penalty is often interpreted as either their off-putting fiendish appearance, or their fiendish predilection towards cruelty, hostility or lack of compassion. I prefer to play mine as more of a personality trait than something involving his appearance.

[rrwoods]

I'm currently playing a character with mental stats of 10/16/6. The low Cha comes across as extreme bluntness and sometimes abrasiveness if Alth is getting annoyed. I choose for arrogance not to enter the mix (but it might if Alth takes a Cha penalty). However, the high Wis means Alth isn't unaware of the negative effects such traits have had on others in the past, and so he mostly lets the more charismatic and diplomatic characters do the talking.

[Korahir]

I currently play a Charisma 7 Human Wizard called Alaric. I play him really shy and nervous especially with females or authorities nearby. He stutters and mutters, is kind of a nutty professor. The more he meets people the more his quirks fade. Works pretty fine so far.