Factotum Chameleon Tripper help?

[bean illus]

Facto 13, Chameleon 7 has a lot of good stuff, but i wonder if It has any kick.

FoI gets ...3 minimum times? Able Learner.... leaves only 4 feats (human) plus the Ch floating feat. Is tripping asking too much of this build? Facto 11 instead?

Different facto trip builds? With some casting?

OR FACTMELEON WITH NO TRIP? What about 4 offensive meta magic feats?

Yes I've researched, but yes I'll re-read suggested pieces.

I guess those are two different questions lol. Sorry.

I'm on my phone. More later.

[bean illus]

33 views and 0 replies? Is my build perfect? or just boring? lol. Probably boring (jusjokin, i know folks have many reason for what they do).

So, forging ahead on the tripper concept. I have heard Daring Outlaw, Swashbuckler, ?Warblade?, ... but i'm not seeing the gimmick. I'll go read them again, but i'm not seeing what i need yet.

1. Is there a way to get Arcane Strike on a Facto Tripper build? To do so would need enough spells to make it work, and at least Empower or Maximize to give it kick.

2. Should it be Int and Dex build? or Int and Str?

3. I suppose I would need some more spells than straight Facto for A.S. to work (or is that impossible) any fast advancing caster classes that work better than Chameleon?

4. Spiked chain is probably out because the build is too short on feats, so guisarme(i think?)?? and... spiked shield? Spiked mithral breastplate?

Please, and thank you. I'll look up some other Facto and tripper builds today and see what i find.

[OldTrees1]

33 views and 0 replies? Is my build perfect? or just boring? lol. Probably boring (jusjokin, i know folks have many reason for what they do).

It is hard to tell what you want and it is a weird mix so people are refraining from posting to avoid being unhelpful or showing ignorance.

I don't know much about Factotum Chameleons, but I do know a bit about Martials and Tripping:

2) Martials tend to benefit(when given enough point buy) from multiple abilities. So, while Int should be dominant, I would suggest both a good Dex(14s are cheap in point buy) and a good Str.

4) Guisarme and Armor Spikes is a viable option. However Spiked Chain is not that expensive feat wise if you are picking your feats carefully.

Tripping minimum:
Combat Reflexes + Improved Trip(usually costs Combat Expertise too)

Tripping augments:
Knock-down
Exotic Weapon Proficiency(Spiked Chain)(really only gives +4 attack over non proficiency)
Aberrant Blood/Willing Deformity + Inhuman Reach/Deformity Tall(+5 reach, probably not room)

Feats to remember for Floating:
Stand Still
Evasive Reflexes
Shape Soulmeld
Martial Study(too bad you don't get 2 floating feats, if you did then you could float a stance)

[Rubik]

A skillful spiked chain is much cheaper overall than spending a feat on Exotic Weapon Proficiency. Or if you're an elf or other race that grants a Weapon Proficiency feat (with Human Heritage to qualify for Chameleon), aptitude is +1 less and potentially grants quite a bit more.

Also, why factotum 13? Cunning Dodge isn't terribly great, and more levels of chameleon for better spellcasting seems like it'd be better than that.


Martial Study(too bad you don't get 2 floating feats, if you did then you could float a stance)Alter Self into a different human or a strongheart halfling for a bonus feat that you choose.

[bean illus]

I don't know much about Factotum Chameleons, but I do know a bit about Martials and Tripping:

2) Martials tend to benefit(when given enough point buy) from multiple abilities. So, while Int should be dominant, I would suggest both a good Dex(14s are cheap in point buy) and a good Str.

Tripping augments:
Knock-down
Exotic Weapon Proficiency(Spiked Chain)(really only gives +4 attack over non proficiency)
Aberrant Blood/Willing Deformity + Inhuman Reach/Deformity Tall(+5 reach, probably not room)

Feats to remember for Floating:
Stand Still
Evasive Reflexes
Shape Soulmeld
Martial Study(too bad you don't get 2 floating feats, if you did then you could float a stance)
It is hard to tell what you want and it is a weird mix so people are refraining from posting to avoid being unhelpful or showing ignorance.

4) Guisarme and Armor Spikes is a viable option. However Spiked Chain is not that expensive feat wise if you are picking your feats carefully.

Tripping minimum:
Combat Reflexes + Improved Trip(usually costs Combat Expertise too)

THOSE ARE TWO OF THE MANY REASONS FOLKS MIGHT NOT POST, there are endless reasons (i really was just jokin).
I always think of Combat Expertise as intrinsic. If you're gonna trip, might as well trip everybody, and a Dex boost on 14 gives 4+ AoOs per round. Thanks for the other suggestions.


A skillful spiked chain is much cheaper overall than spending a feat on Exotic Weapon Proficiency. Or if you're an elf or other race that grants a Weapon Proficiency feat (with Human Heritage to qualify for Chameleon), aptitude is +1 less and potentially grants quite a bit more.

Also, why factotum 13? Cunning Dodge isn't terribly great, and more levels of chameleon for better spellcasting seems like it'd be better than that.

Alter Self into a different human or a strongheart halfling for a bonus feat that you choose.

I don't quite understand the bolded part. Skillful chain? And if you take Human Heritage and gain a feat, don't you come out even? or what would you gain?

I'm torn on that, and noted above that i am thinking about Facto 11. I personally think C.D. is GREAT (it ignores UNLIMITED damage as an immediate action), but it does violate a build guidline of mine (and yours?), ie: don't use feats/etc for something that might happen sometimes. It's better to take something you WILL use nearly every encounter/round.

[Rubik]

I don't quite understand the bolded part. Skillful chain?Skillful is a weapon enhancement that grants automatic proficiency and grants you medium BAB, even if it's lower than that.


And if you take Human Heritage and gain a feat, don't you come out even? or what would you gain?Elves gain 6 Weapon Proficiency bonus feats at first level. Feel free to DCFS 5 of them out for feats you want (including Human Heritage) and wield an aptitude weapon to benefit from the Weapon Proficiency. That's a bit of gold spent and 4 bonus feats gained that aren't earmarked for anything specific.

Kobolds gain 2 Weapon Proficiency feats. (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a)


I'm torn on that, and noted above that i am thinking about Facto 11. I personally think C.D. is GREAT (it ignores UNLIMITED damage as an immediate action), but it does violate a build guidline of mine (and yours?), ie: don't use feats/etc for something that might happen sometimes. It's better to take something you WILL use nearly every encounter/round.There are other ways to ignore and mitigate damage, such as miss chances, a level of abrupt jaunt conjuror, and the cloak from Drow of the Underdark (which gives you abrupt jaunt for a small amount of cash).

Remember, abrupt jaunt, the cloak, and Cunning Dodge all need an immediate action, but you need 4 inspiration points to use the factotum ability, so if you've used your inspiration points for that encounter, you're SoL. Not to mention that 4 inspiration points + the ability to immediately teleport + three levels of chameleon are all a lot more flexible than Cunning Dodge.

[bekeleven]

It's hard to justify stopping chameleon at levels besides 3, 8, and 11. In this case I'd push for Factotum 11 / Chameleon 9 or 10/10 split because I've gotten good mileage out of both.

I've written guides before on how floating feats break the game (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?425036), and I love the class to death. That said, one feature of your character can define the build, and that feature doesn't have to be from the chameleon half. Might I recommend you build around:

Int SAD

Int single ability dependence is a great build-around. At factotum 3 you get into to half your skills plus initiative plus LOTS of other fun stuff, like opposed trip checks. You'll need enough inspiration to keep it on your attacks (inc. attacks to initiate trips), AC and saves, but there are persistent, passive ways to stick int bonuses onto those locations as well. Plus HP, other skills, basically any D20 roll you make can have an int bonus applied at least once.

Look into str 13 and/or dex 13 in case you need them for feat prerequisites, but frankly, I don't think they're very important. You're braniac. Physical stats are for mortals.

[OldTrees1]

Int SAD

Int single ability dependence is a great build-around.

While focusing on Int is obvious, consider this:

Int 18 + Str 10 + Dex 10: +4 bonus for 20 points
Int 14 + Str 14 + Dex 14: +4 bonus for 18 points
Int 16 + Str 14 + Dex 14: +5 bonus for 22 points

Spread out the initial point buy before diving into boosting Int and seeking Int to everything.

[bekeleven]

While focusing on Int is obvious, consider this:

Int 18 + Str 10 + Dex 10: +4 bonus for 20 points
Int 14 + Str 14 + Dex 14: +4 bonus for 18 points
Int 16 + Str 14 + Dex 14: +5 bonus for 22 points

Spread out the initial point buy before diving into boosting Int and seeking Int to everything.
Point buy can "optimize" for highest total bonus by selecting no stats above 14. Are you suggesting a factotum with 14 int is optimized? How about a beguiler? A wizard? Does a psion need to "spread out" to 14 strength?

Consider this:

Int 18 + 5 Levels + 6 Enhancement + 6 Competence = 35 int without even getting exotic. That's +12 to attacks, saves, damage, AC, every hit die, and all skills. With even the smallest amount of effort, it's actually +24 to attacks, AC, some saves, and most skills. With a little more effort you can notch that up to +36. Oh and you're also an int-based preparatory caster with every arcane spell on your spell list, who by the book has 6th level spells.

Not bad for one ability, right? I'm not saying play with every other ability at 8. I'm saying spent the first 16 point of point buy on int and go from there.

[OldTrees1]

Point buy can "optimize" for highest bonus by selecting no stats above 14. Are you suggesting a factotum with 14 int is a good character? How about a beguiler? A wizard?

Consider this:

Int 18 + 5 Levels + 6 Enhancement + 6 Competence = 35 int without even getting exotic. That's +12 to attacks, saves, damage, AC, every hit die, and all skills. With even the smallest amount of effort, it's actually +24 to attacks, AC, some saves, and most skills. With a little more effort you can notch that up to +36. Oh and you're also an int-based preparatory caster with every arcane spell on your spell list, who by the book has 6th level spells.

Not bad for one ability, right? I'm not saying play with every other ability at 8. I'm saying spent the first 16 point of point buy on int and go from there.

I was not calculating highest total bonus (14/14/16 would have been +7 if I were). I was calculating Attack/AC/Initiative/Ref/Damage/Stealth ... You know, the +Int to X stuff.

I am suggesting a factotum with 14 Str and 14 Dex and 16 Int has a mild(+1 on a d20) leg up on the 10/10/18 variety.

So spend the first 10 points on Int, and then go from there.

Oh and my casters tend to start with 16s rather than 18s too, but is for RP reasons not optimization reasons. (to RP a powerful mind with a God ability rather than a weak mind with a God+1 ability)

[Jeff the Green]

Is there a reason Barbarian hasn't been mentioned?

If I were building this, I'd go Factotum 8/Wolf Totem Barbarian 2/Chameleon 10, swapping around Chameleon and Factotum levels as needed. WTB saves you two feats with a free Imp. Trip, and you can decide whether you'd rather have pounce, a climb speed, or fast movement, and regular rage or whirling frenzy. (I'd go with Pounce + Whirling Frenzy, since both can help your tripping, but the campaign and optimization level could change this.) And strictly speaking you can trade rage and fast movement for other things, but they almost universally suck or aren't synergistic with tripping.

[Rubik]

Is there a reason Barbarian hasn't been mentioned?Because rage invalidates a lot of skills and all spell use?

[bean illus]

Skillful is a weapon enhancement that grants automatic proficiency and grants you medium BAB, even if it's lower than that.
Fantastic! Which book please, anybody?


Elves gain 6 Weapon Proficiency bonus feats at first level. Feel free to DCFS 5 of them out for feats you want (including Human Heritage) and wield an aptitude weapon to benefit from the Weapon Proficiency. That's a bit of gold spent and 4 bonus feats gained that aren't earmarked for anything specific.
That so cheesy! Six free feats? I would DM that that was one feat, even though it clearly says "weapon proficiency in etc".

Kobolds gain 2 Weapon Proficiency feats. (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a)
Folks love kobold, but i always play the core(ish) races. I just can't get in to role playing kobolds, lol.

There are other ways to ignore and mitigate damage, such as miss chances, a level of abrupt jaunt conjuror, and the cloak from Drow of the Underdark (which gives you abrupt jaunt for a small amount of cash).

Remember, abrupt jaunt, the cloak, and Cunning Dodge all need an immediate action, but you need 4 inspiration points to use the factotum ability, so if you've used your inspiration points for that encounter, you're SoL. Not to mention that 4 inspiration points + the ability to immediately teleport + three levels of chameleon are all a lot more flexible than Cunning Dodge.


It's hard to justify stopping chameleon at levels besides 3, 8, and 11. In this case I'd push for Factotum 11 / Chameleon 9 or 10/10 split because I've gotten good mileage out of both.

I've written guides before on how floating feats break the game (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?425036), and I love the class to death. That said, one feature of your character can define the build, and that feature doesn't have to be from the chameleon half. Might I recommend you build around:

Int SAD

Int single ability dependence is a great build-around. At factotum 3 you get into to half your skills plus initiative plus LOTS of other fun stuff, like opposed trip checks. You'll need enough inspiration to keep it on your attacks (inc. attacks to initiate trips), AC and saves, but there are persistent, passive ways to stick int bonuses onto those locations as well. Plus HP, other skills, basically any D20 roll you make can have an int bonus applied at least once.

Look into str 13 and/or dex 13 in case you need them for feat prerequisites, but frankly, I don't think they're very important. You're braniac. Physical stats are for mortals.
I'd love to hear about 2x and 3x Int as this build progresses.


I was not calculating highest total bonus (14/14/16 would have been +7 if I were). I was calculating Attack/AC/Initiative/Ref/Damage/Stealth ... You know, the +Int to X stuff.

I am suggesting a factotum with 14 Str and 14 Dex and 16 Int has a mild(+1 on a d20) leg up on the 10/10/18 variety.

So spend the first 10 points on Int, and then go from there.

Oh and my casters tend to start with 16s rather than 18s too, but is for RP reasons not optimization reasons. (to RP a powerful mind with a God ability rather than a weak mind with a God+1 ability)
I guess it's a personal trait of mine, but i can't stand to dump stats. It's hard for me to get into being ugly, or stupid, or weak. I almost always play utility characters, an usually take the 16-14-14..12-12-10.
I also find it to be unnecessarily implausible that these 4 or 5 folks are cruisin' around saving the universe, and every one of them has an Int or Wis or Cha of 8...or 6...lol.


Is there a reason Barbarian hasn't been mentioned?

If I were building this, I'd go Factotum 8/Wolf Totem Barbarian 2/Chameleon 10, swapping around Chameleon and Factotum levels as needed. WTB saves you two feats with a free Imp. Trip, and you can decide whether you'd rather have pounce, a climb speed, or fast movement, and regular rage or whirling frenzy. (I'd go with Pounce + Whirling Frenzy, since both can help your tripping, but the campaign and optimization level could change this.) And strictly speaking you can trade rage and fast movement for other things, but they almost universally suck or aren't synergistic with tripping. Those features do sound great, but as pointed out, it's not a caster friendly chassis. I may consider it though.

[Rubik]

Fantastic! Which book please, anybody?+2 enhancement, Complete Arcane.


Folks love kobold, but i always play the core(ish) races. I just can't get in to role playing kobolds, lol.See Deekin, from Neverwinter Nights.

Also, I had a character that was a Dragonwrought kobold, but he was refluffed (quite literally) into a half-dragon anthropomorphic raccoon.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g111/Lycanthromancer/Maxi%202.jpg

Fluffy!

[bean illus]

Consider this:

Int 18 + 5 Levels + 6 Enhancement + 6 Competence = 35 int without even getting exotic. That's +12 to attacks, saves, damage, AC, every hit die, and all skills. With even the smallest amount of effort, it's actually +24 to attacks, AC, some saves, and most skills. With a little more effort you can notch that up to +36. Oh and you're also an int-based preparatory caster with every arcane spell on your spell list, who by the book has 6th level spells.

Not bad for one ability, right?
I'd love to hear more about the bolded part.


The truth is; everybody knows that Facto11/Chamel9 is a simple but great build. I was hoping to look at other options, but that build fits together SO well.

FoI really needs 3 feats minimum, I suppose? Able Learner for Ch. Human gets 8= 4 feats left. 3 for the Trip chain leaves only ONE feat! (plus the floating feat). AARRRGGHH

It's like the build gives you everything, but the ability to customize it. lol. It's not as bad as Fochlucan Lyrist, but almost. heh

Re-reading Arcane Strike, it's not what i thought it was. I wanted to channel spells through my weapon. Is there no FEAT for that? or should i be looking for a feat to increase the trip chance?

Of course two Flaws would give a lot of feat access, but I'd like to see the build without the flaws first, at least.

[bekeleven]

Attacks: Past the bonus from insiration...

Whirling Blade (Wiz2) attacks everyone in a 60-foot line, replacing strength with int to attacks and damage.
Thunderlance (Wiz4) gives you a force weapon with 1-20 foot range, attacks with int, and deals 3D6+Int force damage. It's a tripper's best friend (it can be wielded 2 handed, and depending on your reading, deals 1.5x Int when doing so). Oh, and if you get a use-activated or command-word item of it, you can call it a lightsaber! "Cuts through" and dispels force effects protecting your target.



AC: Past the bonus from inspiration...

Kung-Fu Genius and Carmendine Monk both swap monk abilities to Int. Use them with a monk's belt. This is RAW-legal as far as my rules lawyering can tell. The two are from different sources if one is outlawed, but I think Kung-Fu Genius's wording is more ironclad.
If you DO go to factotum 16, greater cunning defense stacks with cunning defense. Weird, huh?



Skills: You get +Int already on physical skills. Past the bonus from inspiration...

Keen Intellect replaces Wis with Int on will saves plus Heal, Spot, Survival, and Sense Motive.


Saves: Past the bonus from inspiration...

Insightful Reflexes (Feat) replaces Dex with Int on Ref saves. It's pretty bad in most builds, and honestly, not great here.
Keen Intellect replaces Wis with Int on will saves plus some skills.
Sometimes the best bet is just to get saves to a skill check (like the various Mind over X maneuvers) and pump the skill, through divine insight or more passive spells like Unity Wine or Unicorn Heart.


Other:
Academic Priest (Legend of the Twins) for Int to Bonus spells on Divine Chameleon (already have em on arcane chameleon).
Faerie Mysteries Initiate replaces CON to HP with Int for every HD. It's from dragon magazine.
Knowledge Devotion if you dip cloistered cleric for + to attack and damage. Arguably, throw in Collector of Stories for higher bonuses.

This isn't exhaustive, but it's a bunch of the best tricks that fit on a high-op (A- Grade) gestalt infiltrator (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=420577) for a campaign a few years back.

[Rubik]

Wedded to History (Survivor) allows you to replace Fort and Ref saves with Will saves (at a -1 cumulative penalty to Will saves for the rest of the day). Combined with Keen Intellect and a high Will progression, you end up with some seriously nice saving throws. Use when you reeeeally need to avoid failing your save because your bonus is too low. Oh, and it grants immortality. So there's that.

[Jeff the Green]

Because rage invalidates a lot of skills and all spell use?

So? The point is the other things you get. If you don't think you're going to want to ever rage, get Crafty Hunter for Favored Enemy and Rapid Shot.

[Darrin]

3 for the Trip chain leaves only ONE feat! (plus the floating feat). AARRRGGHH


Can you fit in Wolf Totem Barbarian 2 for Improved Trip?



Re-reading Arcane Strike, it's not what i thought it was. I wanted to channel spells through my weapon. Is there no FEAT for that? or should i be looking for a feat to increase the trip chance?

Smiting Spell (PHBII), but it has to be Touch range and it increases the spell level by +1.

[bean illus]

Thanks for the help guys!

I've been looking at the Skillful enhancement for the spiked chain. I'm pretty sure that's what i want, and i would add the Spell Storing quality as well.
Here's a question: Can Spell Storing be stacked so it can get two or three spells at a time? Skillful with 2-3 spells and +2 melee would be cool? can that be improved?

I just noticed that Chameleon's Aptitude Focus is (Ex). Does that mean Ch can cast in an Anti Magic field? (yes?) That would be pretty nutty.

I'm playing with the idea of F11/Ch7, which does lose 6th lvl spells (which in Ch means some 7th+ spells, ouch) but it would allow 2 levels for improving the trip or the 'add Int to Y'. Any ideas on that?

I gotta work, but i will look closer at your post later today.

[Rubik]

Thanks for the help guys!

I've been looking at the Skillful enhancement for the spiked chain. I'm pretty sure that's what i want, and i would add the Spell Storing quality as well.
Here's a question: Can Spell Storing be stacked so it can get two or three spells at a time? Skillful with 2-3 spells and +2 melee would be cool? can that be improved?Spell storing plus power storing (if you had psionics) plus the artificer's infusion should work. If you were using a bow, a spell storing bow plus spell storing arrows would work. Glyph of Warding might work, and if your spiked chain is intelligent, you could always do Craft Contingent Spell. Item Familiar?


I just noticed that Chameleon's Aptitude Focus is (Ex). Does that mean Ch can cast in an Anti Magic field? (yes?) That would be pretty nutty.The ability to cast is Ex, but the effects of the spells you cast are not. So yes, you could cast in an AMF, but the effects would be nullified.


I'm playing with the idea of F11/Ch7, which does lose 6th lvl spells (which in Ch means some 7th+ spells, ouch) but it would allow 2 levels for improving the trip or the 'add Int to Y'. Any ideas on that?I think the higher level spells would be a better idea. I'd just stick with factotum 11/chameleon 9, for now; or maybe go factotum 8/chameleon 10/X 2 and find other ways to bypass SR using Conjuration spells and other effects like Assay Resistance.

[bean illus]

Attacks: Past the bonus from insiration...

Whirling Blade (Wiz2) attacks everyone in a 60-foot line, replacing strength with int to attacks and damage.
Thunderlance (Wiz4) gives you a force weapon with 1-20 foot range, attacks with int, and deals 3D6+Int force damage. It's a tripper's best friend (it can be wielded 2 handed, and depending on your reading, deals 1.5x Int when doing so). Oh, and if you get a use-activated or command-word item of it, you can call it a lightsaber! "Cuts through" and dispels force effects protecting your target.

See, that's some pretty good stuff there. I'm sure to need that.


AC: Past the bonus from inspiration...

Kung-Fu Genius and Carmendine Monk both swap monk abilities to Int. Use them with a monk's belt. This is RAW-legal as far as my rules lawyering can tell. The two are from different sources if one is outlawed, but I think Kung-Fu Genius's wording is more ironclad.
If you DO go to factotum 16, greater cunning defense stacks with cunning defense. Weird, huh?


Skills: You get +Int already on physical skills. Past the bonus from inspiration...

Keen Intellect replaces Wis with Int on will saves plus Heal, Spot, Survival, and Sense Motive.


Saves: Past the bonus from inspiration...

Insightful Reflexes (Feat) replaces Dex with Int on Ref saves. It's pretty bad in most builds, and honestly, not great here.
Keen Intellect replaces Wis with Int on will saves plus some skills.
Sometimes the best bet is just to get saves to a skill check (like the various Mind over X maneuvers) and pump the skill, through divine insight or more passive spells like Unity Wine or Unicorn Heart.

The build is just too tight for many of those things, but i am going to have to consider saves.

Other:
Academic Priest (Legend of the Twins) for Int to Bonus spells on Divine Chameleon (already have em on arcane chameleon).
Faerie Mysteries Initiate replaces CON to HP with Int for every HD. It's from dragon magazine.
Knowledge Devotion if you dip cloistered cleric for + to attack and damage. Arguably, throw in Collector of Stories for higher bonuses.

This isn't exhaustive, but it's a bunch of the best tricks that fit on a high-op (A- Grade) gestalt infiltrator (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=420577) for a campaign a few years back.[/QUOTE]
THANKS. (I wish i could get K.Devotion...)


Wedded to History (Survivor) allows you to replace Fort and Ref saves with Will saves (at a -1 cumulative penalty to Will saves for the rest of the day). Combined with Keen Intellect and a high Will progression, you end up with some seriously nice saving throws. Use when you reeeeally need to avoid failing your save because your bonus is too low. Oh, and it grants immortality. So there's that.
Nice! but two feats!.... how?


Smiting Spell (PHBII), but it has to be Touch range and it increases the spell level by +1.
Yeah, that might work. With SOOOOO many spells available, it seems there must be touch spells that are worth it?


Spell storing plus power storing (if you had psionics) plus the artificer's infusion should work. If you were using a bow, a spell storing bow plus spell storing arrows would work. Glyph of Warding might work, and if your spiked chain is intelligent, you could always do Craft Contingent Spell. Item Familiar?
Yeah, but is there any reason i can't stack "Spell Storing"? I read it as; pay the cost and stack away (which gets expensive pretty quick).



I think the higher level spells would be a better idea. I'd just stick with factotum 11/chameleon 9, for now; or maybe go factotum 8/chameleon 10/X 2 and find other ways to bypass SR using Conjuration spells and other effects like Assay Resistance.
Fadier's Chameleon Spellbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=135.0) has convinced me of how many 7th, and even 8th and 9th level spells there are available to Chameleon. Especially with Double Aptitude. I think I'm going to build around the F11/Ch9 and make it work.

[Rubik]

It's too bad there's not a psionics aptitude focus for chameleon. The Control Body power grants you Int to attacks, damage, and AC, and using Solicit Psicrystal to control your own body while you manifest powers and cast spells (to get +Int to damage with everything) seems like a good idea to me.


Nice! but two feats!.... how?You could always buy feats using the magical locations (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?268363-Permanent-Magical-Locations) found in Complete Scoundrel and elsewhere to nab things like Iron Will, then use the Dark Chaos Feat Shuffle (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?119456-What-is-a-quot-Chaos-Shuffle-quot) to swap them for the feats you want. You could also use feats granted by items, or the armor (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#armorProficiencyLight) and shield (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#shieldProficiency) feats granted by almost every class out there and do the same with them. (See the "Special" entry of the feats for details.)


Yeah, but is there any reason i can't stack "Spell Storing"? I read it as; pay the cost and stack away (which gets expensive pretty quick).If your DM allows for that, go ahead, but I'm not sure it's supposed to work that way.

[bean illus]

It's too bad there's not a psionics aptitude focus for chameleon. The Control Body power grants you Int to attacks, damage, and AC, and using Solicit Psicrystal to control your own body while you manifest powers and cast spells (to get +Int to damage with everything) seems like a good idea to me.

You could always buy feats using the magical locations (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?268363-Permanent-Magical-Locations) found in Complete Scoundrel and elsewhere to nab things like Iron Will, then use the Dark Chaos Feat Shuffle (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?119456-What-is-a-quot-Chaos-Shuffle-quot) to swap them for the feats you want. You could also use feats granted by items, or the armor (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#armorProficiencyLight) and shield (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#shieldProficiency) feats granted by almost every class out there and do the same with them. (See the "Special" entry of the feats for details.)

If your DM allows for that, go ahead, but I'm not sure it's supposed to work that way.

Things like Location Feats are cool, but if your DM doesn't play then.... I do like the idea of items. The Chameleon Floating Feat can let me customize my own magic items? and i'll read up on how to add feats to an item. I had never thought of trading out redundant armor and shield feats out. I'll certainly look at that.

I don't see why Spell Storing couldn't stack. It's not a bonus, and it's not charged. You buy a quality and pay for it, and it soon becomes cost prohibitive. Smiting Spell gives many options anyway.

[bean illus]

Human Factotum 11/ Chameleon 9 Str14, Dex14, Con10, Int16, Wis14, Cha10.
Facto and Chameleon bothwant to be MAD, and both have a mechanic that partially assuage the problem. Spreading the points like that i get a +9 bonus with 32 points. It will really help with low level skill checks, saves, etc. I almost took the Con bonus and dumped Cha, but i can't see an ugly party face. lol

Facto is the best utility skill build, but spells are so fun! and of course even more utility. Chameleon has nearly the best spell access of any 10 levels in the game, granting every arcane and divine spell in the game up to 6th level and beyond, and CL=2x class level.

The two classes mesh together as if built for each other at several levels, but the top Chameleon levels are hard to pass up:
Chameleon:
7Double Aptitude. Bam. Twice as many spells per day
8Rapid Refocus. Feel free to use those spells, because you can refocus and your a factotum.
9 Mimic Class Feature. Yes. AND sudden access to 6th-9th level arcane spells! (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=135.0)

Factotum 11:
Cunning Surge (3 ins) and Cunning Breach (2 ins) rock together. An extra standard action, and ignore SR and DR once per encounter. There's gotta be a way to use that. Leaves only 1 Inspiration point for other things (which all cost 1). Obviously FoI could do the trick again for 3 feats.



The saves suck. Facto gives two week saves, and Chamel gives 3 week saves. For a total of 6 10 6. A MAD build helps, and Aptitude Bonus +4 helps 6 12 10, but not much. Fix with Int Feats?
BAB 14 can kill the build. Cunning Knowledge and Cunning Breach fix it with a sky high Int focus, but that cost ins which cost feats.
Your Theurgic focus has a lot of self buff potential. I anticipate using it alot, but items can help also. The self buffs will synergize with your offense, so 2x.
I'm pretty sure the Floating Feat lets you customize your own magic items, so that could help the build immensely.


In feat choices I looked at 3 basic options. In all 3 options i need Able Learner, and attempt to address the saves problem. All 3 assume that EWP can be bought with a Skillful weapon and Spell Storing can be stacked inside the same weapon with the reach quality. Smiting Spell lets me channel touch spells through it at -1 level.


FoI is all a Facto needs. It's amazing how well the class scales as you add +5, +5, +5, Int. With 4 FoI you gain 10 ins points and your spamin' Int or level all over the place. Saves problem goes away.
Problem is: You only get 3 FoI for 6+6=12 Inspiration points.
Knowledge Devotion for one feat is nearly prereq. Three feats open. At least some trip fun.

Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Combat Reflexes. Floating Chameleon Feat for Empower Spell or somethin'.
You deliver touch spells with reach through a spiked chain with half a dozen AoO trip attacks a round.

Flaws give more Foi, or some meta magic offense.

Go spend your gold.


The problem with more tripping is: Less FoI. Because of the scaling nature of FoI, taking less than 3x is a bit lame. Due to the heavy feat tax of dedicated tripping one feat is not that game changing.
If giving up FoI entirely we can spend more or less all feats on trip synergy.
Human; Able Learner
1 Combat Expertise
3 Improved Trip
6 Combat Reflexes
9 Knowledge Devotion
12 Smiting Spell
15 Empower Spell
18 (any other feat, suggestions?)
Don't forget the game breaking Floating Feat. Make your own magic item buffs, much?

You deliver touch spells with reach through a spiked chain with half a dozen AoO trip attacks a round, oh, and can heal yourself 30+ points as a free action 3x/day.


Tripping is fun, but what do you give up by trying to make a Factotum Trip? Well FoI...and the ability to spend feats on your casting.

Able Learner.
1 Empower Spell? 1 lvl
3 Enlarge Spell? 2 lvl
6 Extend Spell 1 lvl
9
12 Repeat Spell?
15 Practiced Spell Caster?
18 Spell Penetration?

I'm sure that everyone has favorite feats, and i hope that you'll share them with me. This is just to give a view of what can be done with meta magic focus on the Chameleon side.


I wanna spend some time buying the chain, and making item buffs, but that's what i got for now. Please comment and suggest.


Please stay tuned as i continue to research and edit this build.

[Rubik]

You can use feats, spells, and items to really shore up some of your weaknesses. Two novice rings of diamond mind, for instance, allow you to sub Concentration for Fort and Will saves 1/encounter each. Alter Self and other Polymorph effects can increase your size and give you stability via 4+ legs, and since you're going to be human, Jotenbruud can push your effective size category to Large for opposed rolls even if you're Fine size. Alter Self and Polymorph can also give you bonus feats, so pop one off to become a human that isn't you to make use of that beautiful floating bonus feat to stack with your chameleon feat. The Heroics spell also gives you a floating (fighter) bonus feat, as well. Divine Power gives you full BAB regardless of what it might otherwise be, and since it's not capped at +20, it continues to rise through epic, and it even stacks with your EpicAB. You could invest in some DMM (Persistent Spell) to make full use of your chameleon's turn undead ability. Persist and Extend your spells, and you can double the number of Persistent spells you have every day, which includes the above spells.

Out of curiosity, what level are you starting at? If you're starting at slightly lower levels, go for some eternal wands of Alter Self (boosted with Words of Creation [WoC] for a +1 CL for free). Store in some wand chambers in your gauntlets or some wand bracers on your forearms to have them always on. And for the Ferrari of magic items, a WoC psychoactive skin of proteus gives you such a ridiculously high boost to healing, offense, defense, mobility, and utility it's not even funny. Invest in Use Psionic Device and power stones of low level powers. There are a lot of these that are incredibly useful, even at ML 1.

Oh, and make sure to use your floating feats from chameleon/Alter Self/Polymorph/Heroics to nab prereqs for other floating feats. Martial Study and Martial Stance, soulmelds, item creation feats and cost reduction feats, etc.