Needs advice on how to handle some ghost related stuff

[Jowgen]

The Scrolls of Uncertain Provenance are a relic from the magic item compendium, whose relic power comes with the risk of incurring a range of penalties. These include stuff like being cursed, negative levels, insanity... but the main thing is the following


91-100 Become a ghost for a year and a day; Fort DC 20 negates.

So yeah. How to go about adjudicating that...?

The first issue is the one of planes. The item doesn't mention shifting you to the ethereal plane, so you'd be a ghost on the material. I know this has been debated before, but it's worth posing the question again: What the devil happens to all of a Ghost's different abilities when it comes to be on another plane than the ethereal by means other than it's manifestation ability?

The second issue is one of dying. A Ghost's rejuvination ability makes it so that it reforms at "its old haunts" a few days after being destroyed, but a Ghost created in this method doesn't really have an "old haunt". Does it not gain the ability? Does it reform around the scrolls? What other options are there?

The third issue is one of typing. The Ghost template can't be applied to all things. Outsiders, Fey, things that are already undead... what happens to those folk?

Which brings me to my last question: variant Ghosts. What other Ghost-type templates are there that could be used in place of the regular ghost template (for balance, for coolness, for ease of application, etc.)?

[OldTrees1]

I'll presume that you are not asking for hard RAW since it gives some bad answers in this case.

1) Where is the Ghost to be?
Put the Ghost's Ghost body on the Ethereal plane adjacent to where he was with the scroll but start with the Ghost manifested(incorporeal right where they had used the scroll). While there are rules for a ghost bodily transported off the ethereal plane(basically it uses its Str score and is not incorporeal), the scroll probably did not intend such.

2) Rejuvenation?
It would gain Rejuvenation and would reform at the location of scroll use.

3) Typing?
Temporarily Undead

[Jowgen]

1) Where is the Ghost to be?
Put the Ghost's Ghost body on the Ethereal plane adjacent to where he was with the scroll but start with the Ghost manifested(incorporeal right where they had used the scroll). While there are rules for a ghost bodily transported off the ethereal plane(basically it uses its Str score and is not incorporeal), the scroll probably did not intend such.

That would work most of the time, but what if the scrolls get used on a plane that doesn't have an ethereal? Even if not, there is a decent chance anyone affected would attempt to plane-shift or ethereal curtain to somewhere more... substantial.


2) Rejuvenation?
It would gain Rejuvenation and would reform at the location of scroll use.
That seems workable. Not too convenient, not too restrictive.


3) Typing?
Temporarily Undead

What I meant was what to do if a Fey or other creature that isn't a legal recipient for the Ghost template uses the scrolls and gets thus affected. I could treat it simply as a save-or-die, but that seems a tad harsh.

[OldTrees1]

That would work most of the time, but what if the scrolls get used on a plane that doesn't have an ethereal? Even if not, there is a decent chance anyone affected would attempt to plane-shift or ethereal curtain to somewhere more... substantial.

What I meant was what to do if a Fey or other creature that isn't a legal recipient for the Ghost template uses the scrolls and gets thus affected. I could treat it simply as a save-or-die, but that seems a tad harsh.

1)
The RAW for a Ghost bodily transported out of the material plane is:
Can't Manifest(aka can't become incorporeal)
Has a Str score(due to not being incorporeal)
Although this RAW is debated.

3)
I would treat it as a save-or-ghost regardless of prior type. Creatures without a dual nature do not have a corpse during this time(reforms at the end). Undead leave behind the corpse they rose from during this time(return to it at the end).

[Jowgen]

1)
The RAW for a Ghost bodily transported out of the material plane is:
Can't Manifest(aka can't become incorporeal)
Has a Str score(due to not being incorporeal)
Although this RAW is debated.

I take it the debate focuses on whether it's incorporeal subtype comes in and grants stuff as a default?


3)
I would treat it as a save-or-ghost regardless of prior type. Creatures without a dual nature do not have a corpse during this time(reforms at the end). Undead leave behind the corpse they rose from during this time(return to it at the end).

Hmmm. Ignoring the pre-requs of a template doesn't sit right with me. Other undead I guess I can see, in that whatever template makes them undead gets replaced by the ghost one. Elementals and Outsiders I really can't see, as they're already just souls, and are generally Non-undead-able. Fey is an interesting one. I wonder why they're excluded from the Ghost template in the first place. Friggin plants get to be Ghosts, why not them? :smallconfused:

[OldTrees1]

I take it the debate focuses on whether it's incorporeal subtype comes in and grants stuff as a default?



Hmmm. Ignoring the pre-requs of a template doesn't sit right with me. Other undead I guess I can see, in that whatever template makes them undead gets replaced by the ghost one. Elementals and Outsiders I really can't see, as they're already just souls, and are generally Non-undead-able. Fey is an interesting one. I wonder why they're excluded from the Ghost template in the first place. Friggin plants get to be Ghosts, why not them? :smallconfused:

1)
Yes, the debate focuses on whether the Incorporeal subtype or the Manifest ability trumps the other.

3)
Ghosts are just a soul(+ectoplasm) so they are one of the few undead that make sense for creatures(undead and elementals) without a dual nature(dual nature: body =/= soul).