Help with a Villain Organization

[Seto]

Hello Playground. Players from my Heliomona campaign, keep out !

In my sandbox game, there are a lot of independant threats, which differ in scale and in CR. I need help with one of them. Also, quick disclaimer : I've been much inspired by Naruto's Akatsuki and HunterXHunter's Phantom Troupe, that's to say high-powered small groups of criminals with very different individualities. I'm trying to make something like that work in D&D 3.5. But I'm not trying to emulate exactly either of those groups.

"Fate" is a group of nine high-level NPCs (15-ish), of different capabilities (casters and martials alike, even a 20th-level Expert), who are all pretty much the best at what they do. Which is the point : they recruit only exceptionally talented individuals - famous ones whenever possible. They're comprised of six humans, a dwarf, an elf and a Halfling. I've pretty much figured out each of their backstories and personalities, and how they work (three groups of three).

What I need help with, is how they go about achieving what they want. The organization has been secret up to now, but that won't last as their goal is anathema to secrecy : they want to be legends and write themselves into the collective imagery. Forever. (Why, yes, the leader is a Bard, how'd you guess.) Individuals members' involvement with that goal varies : some of them are dead serious about it, others want to use Fate to accomplish their personal agenda. They're designed to be narratively villains : most of them (one exception) are not enemies of light and life, they're not irredeemable fiends, they're not even especially cruel or mean, but they are willing to do pretty much anything necessary to have their way.

First group is Warblade, Bard ("leader" of Fate, although it's less "iron-fisted command" and more "loose coordination"), Sorceress. The three of them are glory-hounds and attention-seekers. Their job is political schemes, acquisition of power and fame.
Second group is Barbarian, Tashalatora Monk and Rogue. Silent, efficient, deadly, they're the Strike team.
Third group is Wizard, Expert, Blighter. They're the rear guard. Their job is to secure resources and allies, research necessary artifacts and rituals, build a strong secret base to fall back to. Although the Expert is trustworthy and keeps the others in check, the Wizard and the Blighter are the less committed to the group overall. (And the Blighter disgusts everyone even among Fate). The Expert has a Young Adult Black Dragon friend who helps them guard their base (in exchange, he's allowed to set up his lair in it and they help him get rid of draconic competitors).

Questions : - do you think I should give them a more concrete, or more immediately achievable goal ?
- Could you help me think up ways of achieving their goal in the game as-is ?
- Could you help me design new ways of achieving their goal ? (like a homebrew ritual or something that would let them literally find a book of Fate and write their names in it ? or a different idea with the same result)

In any case, their agenda must be something that makes them villains and valid targets for the party.

[Aergoth]

Okay, so if they're not going to be actual villains in the sense that their goals are opposed to traditional "good" your best way to involve them with the players as villains/rivals/antagonists would be the old "send them after something and the other guys already got it". They're unscrupulous, underhanded (and in the case of your blighter, downright evil) and they're trying to write themselves into the fabric of legend by stealing the accomplishments of others. They'll work with bad guys, lie, steal and cheat to get it.

For reference, you're looking at the villains from Karate Kid (the original), Belloq from Raiders of the Lost Ark, and any 90s sports movie with a team of plucky underdogs.

If you want to turn them into villains rather than simply "opposed to the players goals" then you want to take the route of Tarquin, except you're going big or going home. If they lose, they're the terrifying menace that threatened the world, if they win? They run the show until something does kill them (probably one of their own). To that end you want to have them propping up villainous plots, their leader wants heroes to defeat and the best way to get those is to arrange your own. That way he gets to study the opposition as they grow, and trim off any problematic parties (what, you think a bard is going to have just one group of heroes? They might die.)

[Telonius]

I'd suggest you take a page from Syndrome. Right now they're setting the stage for their arrival. They want to be the ones the stories and songs are written about - so they're discrediting and destroying other particularly high-level competitors, especially the ones that are well-known and famous. When the heroes of the realm have been dispatched, they'll step in to save the day.

[Val666]

Red Fel, Red Fel, Red Fel!!!

[Seto]

I'd suggest you take a page from Syndrome. Right now they're setting the stage for their arrival. They want to be the ones the stories and songs are written about - so they're discrediting and destroying other particularly high-level competitors, especially the ones that are well-known and famous. When the heroes of the realm have been dispatched, they'll step in to save the day.

Sounds nice, what is Syndrome ?

[TIPOT]

Sounds nice, what is Syndrome ?

He's the villain in Pixar's Incredibles

[Seto]

Oh, right, yes. It's been a long time :smallbiggrin: And thanks for your ideas. Actually, having them exploit and amplify a cosmic threat to play heroes might be it, given that I happen to have one of those in the drawer. And they're gonna be over their heads with this one, which will open the way for the party to clean it up.

[Rolero]

Red Fel!

RED FEL!

RED FEL!

[BowStreetRunner]

Actually, having them exploit and amplify a cosmic threat to play heroes might be it, given that I happen to have one of those in the drawer. And they're gonna be over their heads with this one, which will open the way for the party to clean it up.
Personally I like to play with legends and prophecies a lot in my games. Building on the cosmic threat idea a little further, you could have there be an historical group of heroes that were given plenary power by the ruler in ancient times when they were needed to fight a previous cosmic threat against the realm. They came, were given authority by the ruler to do whatever it took, defeated the threat, then lived out their lives as legendary heroes. There is also a prophecy that states that a new group of such heroes will someday appear.
So Fate is trying to play the prophecy to their advantage - even to the point of manufacturing an imaginary cosmic threat. Their hope is that the current ruler will bestow upon them the same title as the former heroes along with all of the authority and such, they will overcome the imaginary threat and then live out their lives as magnificent legendary heroes.
Of course the problem is that there really is an actual cosmic threat - it may even be that Fate actually triggered its coming with their actions - and this group is not actually the prophesied heroes who will defeat the cosmic threat. Oops! :smalleek:

[Svata]

Red Fel, Red Fel, Red Fel!!!


Red Fel!

RED FEL!

RED FEL!

You're doing it wrong, both of you.

Come forth, master of evil.
Hear my call, you who embody cruelty and knowledge.
Rise, RED FEL!!

[Telonius]

Jeeze, all of you ....


"Hey Red Fel, somebody in the thread said that Evil characters are always one-dimensional and uninteresting!"

Anyway, another question you might be asking is, what lines would those "Fate" folks never cross? You already know what the thing they most value is (reputation and fame), but I'd suggest that you think about how far they'd be willing to go to achieve it. Just how much pain are they willing to inflict before someone gets cold feet?

[FocusWolf413]

You're doing it wrong, both of you.

Come forth, master of evil.
Hear my call, you who embody cruelty and knowledge.
Rise, RED FEL!!

No, they're doing it right. Remember, you're summoning him, not worshipping him. Respect him, but don't let him get inside your head. You don't want him getting that kind of power over you.

[OPG]

If they're secretly allied but all want to be famous, then why not make them pillars of the community (or communities) where appropriate and have just their alliance secret?

Also if you want the conflict to be between them and the players, have them screw the players over. When the PCs eventually connect the dots they'll probably interfere if you made Fate anathema enough towards them. For example, say the PCs raid a dungeon to retrieve an artifact for some dude. As they're heading back to hand it in Fate 'ports in, goes "lolnope", and steals the artifact leaving the party for dead. Nothing pisses players off quite like missing out on a payday, so imagine their reaction to discover the sorceress who fireball'd their asses is in charge of a prominent charity/orphanage1!


"Hey Red Fel, somebody in the thread said that Evil characters are always one-dimensional and uninteresting!"What I don't get is why they just don't link to one of his better posts? I had no clue who the berk is until now, and while I'd like to hear his opinions I don't know where they are. Plus, you know, he probably had better things to do than write extensive posts on the internet for people who can't be arsed to argue minor points for themselves.

Unrelated: This makes me want to create a Google Alert that lets me know when someone posts "OPG, OPG, OPG" on a forum I care about. Just in case.

1- Or whatever you want really, as long as it's something the average citizen will have heard of.

[Red Fel]

Red Fel, Red Fel, Red Fel!!!

*snore*


Red Fel!

RED FEL!

RED FEL!

*yawn* Wha?


You're doing it wrong, both of you.

Come forth, master of evil.
Hear my call, you who embody cruelty and knowledge.
Rise, RED FEL!!

... Oh, that's just cute.


"Hey Red Fel, somebody in the thread said that Evil characters are always one-dimensional and uninteresting!"

Okay, okay, I'm awake! Sheesh, doesn't follow the rules, but gets the point across.

Here's my advice. They all have the same general goal of writing themselves into history, right? Well, if the founder is a Bard, I can't think of how they'd be in lockstep about the specifics of how to go about that. So while you could treat them all as one loosely-affiliated group, you might do better to treat them instead as multiple smaller groups.

First group you've got down. They plan to become part of history by writing it, by being Kingmakers. Run with that. It's easy to keep them on track for their goals. Pick a few of your world leaders; they're already in Fate's thrall. Then pick a few more; they're being targeted. Have your players periodically find themselves in the middle of one of Fate's power plays. It's easy to do, and as long as they escape you can have them recur. Best of all, since most of these plays will occur in plain sight and consist mostly of social dynamics, it creates RP opportunities that are not conducive to combat - meaning that the PCs will come face-to-Fate with the enemy they recognize, and be powerless to attack them.

Second group is tricky. Being the strike team is good, but it's not enough. They want to become part of history by being its nightmare. They want to be famous for being the boogeyman. "Don't rise too high too quickly, or Fate will get you." "Don't cross the wrong mercenary, or Fate will come after you." And so forth. Basically, pick targets for them to kill. Have rumors spread about their targets. If the PCs don't investigate them, then they probably won't show up unless called in as reinforcements by the first group. On the other hand, if the PCs never go after them, you'll have a lot of dead power players, which could actually make the first group's goals easier or harder, depending.

Last group you describe as the rear guard. I'd make them R&D instead. Consider having them in the "change the world" department. They will become part of history by literally revolutionizing the world. Maybe they'll create new life, or release a horrific plague, or develop a weapon that annihilates a continent. Make them the mad science sorts, bordering on unhinged. Encounters with them should be suitably terrifying - haunted towns, aberration swarms, gibbering mouthers, flesh golems murmuring "Kill me" over and over again.

By treating them as three loosely affiliated groups instead of one singular group, you can operate them independently, maybe even have the players guessing whether Fate is actually involved in whatever plot they're exploring. By switching them out, you can keep the game dynamic, and give the players the feeling that this group really does have influence all over the place.


What I don't get is why they just don't link to one of his better posts? I had no clue who the berk is until now, and while I'd like to hear his opinions I don't know where they are. Plus, you know, he probably had better things to do than write extensive posts on the internet for people who can't be arsed to argue minor points for themselves.

Because each of my posts is custom-tailored to suit your Evil needs.

And no, I have nothing better to do. Sad truth.

[Seto]

By treating them as three loosely affiliated groups instead of one singular group, you can operate them independently, maybe even have the players guessing whether Fate is actually involved in whatever plot they're exploring. By switching them out, you can keep the game dynamic, and give the players the feeling that this group really does have influence all over the place.

Hmm, that's nice. Plus, they've already come in indirect contact with a member of each group. The players have already met one of Fate's members (the nicest person among them, the Monk), without knowing that she's part of it of course, and heard a poem by the Bard (they liked it). One of the players has a personal blood feud against the Blighter who killed his mother. As for the Warblade, she's got quite a reputation (killed the last Copper Dragon in existence). Fate won't be involved in every plot point, but it would definitely be nice to have the players wonder whether it is.

[FocusWolf413]

"Hey, where's Red Fel?"
Telonius: "I got this."
"SOMEONE SAID EVIL CHARACTERS ARE ONE DIMENSIONAL!"
*Red Fel crashes through wall* "OH HEEEEELLLLLL NO"