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View Full Version : My Gaming Group's Going to Shizzle...



Dragor
2007-05-20, 12:27 PM
My gaming group is doing very little gaming and is becoming less of a group. Our D&D veteran (8 years) has grown tired D&D, and is wanting to do other types of games and play about with the rules. I've prepared to step in to DM myself with what I think is my best quest yet- but my group's lost spirit. There's no alternative group I know of in my area either- unless someone here's from Leicester, UK and would like to step in. :smallbiggrin:

Oh, and the things which are splitting our group bar that.

1) DM and one player getting very angry with each other. This has resulted in the mood being wrecked several times.

2) Certain players just being out of character or being lazy all the time, simply saying "I follow" or just shrug and switch on the nearest gaming console.

3) One player (same one that's angry w/ the DM) insisting on playing weird races and weirder classes from sourcebooks that nobody has read much of. Also a weird fixation on the BoEF (resulting in much jibes from us. You can't blame us.... he brought it upon himself.)

So, there's the whole hog. Now I need someone to rescue my group.

Much appreciation,

Dragor/Tom Brierley

TheThan
2007-05-20, 12:37 PM
hmm, sounds like your group needs a short break, both from dnd and from each other (at least some do). I’d suggest simply ending it for a little while. Just keep in touch with them, eventually they’ll get the desire to do it again later. Maybe just have them over to goof off and not play dnd, get some board games or tabletop games instead, something to keep them together, but just not playing dnd.

goat
2007-05-20, 12:44 PM
Consider contacting the local university student's union, thye normally have a gaming group. I know that here (canterbury) the gaming society is happy to include non-students in its activities (at a slightly increased joining fee).

I found my last group through the one here, and I was the only student there.

Last_resort_33
2007-05-20, 12:53 PM
Firstly - Yoink the games consoles.

Secondly - play a different game. Tunnels and Trolls is VERY good. Traveller is good too, or if you really want to go back to D&D, then take a 2 session break to play Munchkin, Magic the Rip off Gathering, or even poker friendlies.

Thirdly - No caffine until people start actually falling asleep. Keep the levels of sugar down to a minimum, this really helps. i.e. No coke! No sweets!

Forthly - Every 2 hours of game play, Take a 1/2 hour break into another room. Have a drink (decaf coffee). If two players start arguing, that is a good time to take a break, especially you can all go out in the fresh air or something.

Fifthly - Arrange the lighting so that the only light in the room is actually pointing at the games table.

Sixthly - Have a written list of all sourcebooks available. If it's not on the list, it ain't in the game.

Hope this helps

Alveanerle
2007-05-20, 01:03 PM
A gaming group i used to play with used this system: play one thing as a mainstream (Warhammer), and switch to some other games for some time as a refresher. 7seas worked excellently for a few month of a game topic change.
Another good refresher was playing strategic games - here we liked Attack! very much. Quick (4-5h for a full game), easy to learn, hard to master if other players are competent.

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-05-20, 01:16 PM
Yeah, a big switch might be just what you need. On the fly, try something weird out. Who knows? Maybe you'll all love the weirdness so much that you'll permanently switch.

The_Snark
2007-05-20, 01:16 PM
Firstly - Yoink the games consoles.

Secondly - play a different game. Tunnels and Trolls is VERY good. Traveller is good too, or if you really want to go back to D&D, then take a 2 session break to play Munchkin, Magic the Rip off Gathering, or even poker friendlies.

First is a good idea. Those things really, really slow down play.

On the second, I reccomend trying the Munchkin card game. It requires no preparation and manages to capture the classic dungeon-crawl feel in a comic way. It doesn't require much of an attention span, but once you get going it's hard to stop. Hopefully, it'll have the group remembering old D&D experiences. It may re-hook some of them.

The two people having conflicts might be a problem, but that sounds like something you'll have to work out outside of the game.

Last_resort_33
2007-05-20, 01:19 PM
3, 4 and 5 are just as important for maintaining a focused group. It's truely astounding the differance a lack of caffine sugar and caffine makes.


A gaming group i used to play with used this system: play one thing as a mainstream (Warhammer), and switch to some other games for some time as a refresher. 7seas worked excellently for a few month of a game topic change.

In my first group, we would always play alternate weeks of D&D and M:tG.

Damn I have given WotC too much money in my time.

Dragor
2007-05-20, 01:40 PM
All brill advice. The DM in question has recommended Swords and Sorcery. The thing is, I'm now so embroiled in D&D now that I find it hard to adjust to an alternative.

Last_resort_33
2007-05-20, 01:58 PM
I don't recommend it... It's like D&D but with more rules... Try Ars Magica... especially if your group has a short attention span. I highly recommend
Tunnels and Trolls (7th ed) you can also buy it in PDF format which is cool too.

D6 star wars? that'd make a good game.

Can you still get Everway? If your group are destracted, then a good game of Everway will set you off nicely. (Written by Jonathan Tweet by the way)

Kaerou
2007-05-20, 02:13 PM
The #1 golden rule of gaming:

Turn OFF all TV's.

Turn OFF all Gaming consoles

Turn OFF the PC.

Threaten to BURN all magic cards.

Result: happy gaming! Well.. supposedly.

The best gaming my group has ever had was when we rented a room at an alternative site. There was no TV, no consoles, no PC.. no distractions. Just a room with a table, chairs and a kettle, coffe, tea + fridge full of beverages and snacks. Best gaming time ever.

Mr the Geoff
2007-05-20, 02:34 PM
Hmm, we went through this a while back with my group. A change of venue sorted it. Instead of the guy whos house it was nipping off into the next room to check on his wife/kids/WoW game we ended up back sat round a table with the telly set to a music channel instead of saturday night tv (ugh!) and the kids upstairs with the playstation.

But yeah maybe a change would be for the best, there can't be that much of a lack of gamers in Leicester, though I don;t know how you find a new game. THe 2 I know of in the london area I found out about through alternate means (chatting to my guild in World of Warcraft for one and spotting a PHB on my brother in law's bookshelf for the other)

the_tick_rules
2007-05-20, 06:14 PM
have you considered using violence?

ravenkith
2007-05-21, 10:07 AM
I've got to say: having a video game console anywhere near your RPG area is generally a bad idea.

Pack it up and put it out of sight.

Last resort's got it down, although personally, I'd do something completely different from fantasy gaming.

A d20 modern or Mutants & Masterminds campaign, preferably run by someone other than your current DM would probably have the best results.

It sounds like the players are getting bored, which is usually because of repetitive or otherwise uninteresting gameplay, which normally results from a burnt-out DM, combined with playing one game for a long period of time.

Change the game, change the DM, and switch off on a rotating basis...it'll help.

Last_resort_33
2007-05-21, 10:18 AM
have you considered using violence?

Every moment of my life

Wraithy
2007-05-21, 10:33 AM
risk is allways fun, not risk 2040 though (huge waste of money).
and as for the player who uses all of those obscure classes and races, just make sure they check if it's ok with you before they play it.

if your group is bored then check through the DM handbook and other sources a few more times, if you can create an adventure which enthralls your group enough, they won't have time to get in arguments, just keep things moving.
one problem my gaming group is having at the moment is size, it's hard to put 8 people around a table, if your problem is caused by size, you might have to split the group in 2. if you do end up having to do this, make sure that the people who get on each others nerves are seperate.

good luck

Penguinsushi
2007-05-21, 10:50 AM
I think every group deals with problems like this sooner or later. There aren't really any easy solutions either, but most of the suggestions that have been made are good ones.

Ditching the consoles and any other distractions is a good idea. Almost essential, really.

I'd feel bad telling the gamers not to drink soda, since I drink several cans per session. I like soda, and my throat gets dry from narrative (I try to be a good storyteller as well as merely arbitrating what the players want to do).

I also think actually sitting around a real table is best as well - unfortunately, I have to make do with sitting around a coffee table in the living room, since we dont' have a suitable table & chairs. My players like the comfy furniture, but I think it does make losing focus a bit easier...

I would also ask how large your group is. I think one of the big things in my case was that my group was getting close to 7 players, and I ended up deciding we should split it up. It's my opinion that, with any more than 5 players, at least one or two players get marginalized, or you end up spending more time on certain players and the others get bored (Note this may be a limitation of my gm'ing style, but it's something to consider). I actually prefer games with 3 or 4 players. 4 is best, but i'd rather have 3 than 5 most of the time. Especially if the 3 are good roleplayers.

Also - and probably most importantly - I'd suggest trying to figure out why distractions/laziness is such a problem. I.e., why are the players getting bored with the game? Is there particular point in the session where this usually starts to happen (like during long narratives or combat rounds or even just after you've been playing for a few hours), or is it a sort of constant thing?

Answering those types of questions will give you a clue as to whether they are just tired of it, or if should you perhaps adjust your gaming style...

~PS

Meschaelene
2007-05-21, 10:52 AM
Thirdly - No caffine until people start actually falling asleep. Keep the levels of sugar down to a minimum, this really helps. i.e. No coke! No sweets!




No caffeine?!! What, are you my mother? I find gaming without caffeine unpleasant, and would find a "rule" that documents what I may eat or drink intrusive and insulting. If I were hyperactive during sessions, then it would be a request to calm down, with the suggestion that I avoid caffeine -- but that is not what you propose. You propose an outright ban, not trusting people to act responsibly. I would not stay the session.

At Baptist prayer meetings, you are at least allowed milk and cookies. If your rules are stricter, you might wanna rethink that.

Ranis
2007-05-21, 11:05 AM
This makes me feel really good about MY gaming group. There are four gaming consoles in our area, and we've never had problems. Ever. Also copious amounts of sugar and caffeine, with pizza.

TO_Incognito
2007-05-21, 11:56 AM
No caffeine?!! What, are you my mother? I find gaming without caffeine unpleasant, and would find a "rule" that documents what I may eat or drink intrusive and insulting. If I were hyperactive during sessions, then it would be a request to calm down, with the suggestion that I avoid caffeine -- but that is not what you propose. You propose an outright ban, not trusting people to act responsibly. I would not stay the session.

It sounds to me like he has been making suggestions and "trusting people to act responsibly," with disastrous results. If your group has no problem with caffeine or sugar, or can solve any problems they happen to have with a friendly suggestion, that's great, but it clearly isn't the circumstance the OP is on. I would certainly say that constant bickering, a totally disinterested player, and an obsession with the BoEF warrent rules, even rules about consumption, especially when friendly suggestions have been tried and have failed.

Meschaelene
2007-05-21, 12:37 PM
I would certainly say that constant bickering, a totally disinterested player, and an obsession with the BoEF warrent rules, even rules about consumption, especially when friendly suggestions have been tried and have failed.


Caffeine and sugar cause constant bickering, disinterested players and odd obsessions with the BoEF? Hmmm -- don't think so...

Rules should be closely tied to the actions they are meant to prevent or encourage. If you wanted to encourage constant bickering, disinterested players and players whose obsession is to give the DM a headache with broken and silly characters, I'd recommend making random, intrusive rules for your players to follow -- even better if you can insult them at the same time! Be a tyrant, and your people will follow your example!

Dragor
2007-05-21, 12:46 PM
Well, I've had one act of reformation today. Sat everyone down, at school during lunch break.

It's been a good quest so far. Not much stupidity, and the players have been acting sensibly. However, our resident 'meh' or 'I laugh at YOU but do nothing myself' player has decided to sit it out (he's got social issues with other people. Don't ask. :smalltongue: )

BoEF Lover (for it is he) is playing a Human (I leaped into the air. Not Thri-Keen, Drow, some other weird race? Thank god) Bard and former-DM is playing a Ranger.... Resident Meh was going to play a Gnome Battle Sorcerer, but as above, he quit, possibly for the better.

Penguinsushi
2007-05-21, 01:00 PM
Rules should be closely tied to the actions they are meant to prevent or encourage. If you wanted to encourage constant bickering, disinterested players and players whose obsession is to give the DM a headache with broken and silly characters, I'd recommend making random, intrusive rules for your players to follow -- even better if you can insult them at the same time! Be a tyrant, and your people will follow your example!

As for this argument...

Its like any relationship really. It is perfectly acceptable for the gm to insist upon certain things. It is likewise perfectly acceptable for the players insist upon certain things. It is further perfectly acceptable for the parties involved to part ways if an agreement cannot be reached.

If banning soda and sweets is an amicable solution for Last_resort_33's group, don't criticize him just because it wouldn't work in yours.


@Dragor: Sounds like you're working it out. :smallsmile: If you sit down and explain the situation to them, most players possessing even a little maturity will work with you on that.

~PS

Dragor
2007-05-21, 01:11 PM
@Dragor: Sounds like you're working it out. :smallsmile: If you sit down and explain the situation to them, most players possessing even a little maturity will work with you on that.
~PS

Thing is, PS, I don't want to tell them that I think it's all going wrong. I just hope none of them notice this thread :smalleek:

Penguinsushi
2007-05-21, 01:20 PM
Thing is, PS, I don't want to tell them that I think it's all going wrong. I just hope none of them notice this thread :smalleek:

Ah. yeah. I should have known that I guess. I tried having a forum discussion on my site about that once and one or two of the players took it to mean I thought it was all screwed up. I was just trying to make suggestions for how I thought it could go better. Guess it's important to make that point clear.

I know what you mean, though.

~PS

Last_resort_33
2007-05-21, 04:49 PM
It's not a hard and fast rule so much now as it was when it was first implemented, unless you actually try it you really don't know how much of a difference it makes. (mind you, one player has started being disruptive and hyperactive and my might be getting him back on it) generally now, we have a cup of tea before we start and then no more caffine until around 11pm, not out of "rules", but jus becasue we know what effect it will have on the group.

When everyone understands that it's for the good of the game, and it DOES make it more fun, then it works. In my experience, everyone was adult enough to accept that paying attention to the game was a good thing and it was worth a try. I didn't go about it in a tyranical manner.

Caffine and bickering IS largely caused by sugar and caffiene. Caffine is a stimulant, sugar generates excess energy. There is NO question about it.

Good to hear that the "Meh" player has quit... makes the game a lot more intense.

Ethdred
2007-05-22, 04:37 AM
Caffine and bickering IS largely caused by sugar and caffiene. Caffine is a stimulant, sugar generates excess energy. There is NO question about it.


Yes there is. My group has a very high caffeine and suger intake, but strangely no bickering. Then again we never have a gaming console in the room (I keep being surrpised when I read about this complaint - maybe because I started gaming before these things were invented!) Bickering is caused by many things, and may be accentuated by stimulants, but you have to find the root cause.

manda_babylon
2007-05-23, 02:43 PM
My group goes through a 2 liter or two (or three, depending on the length of the session) every time. There are always munchies like pop tarts, cookies, crackers, Italian ice, etc. We never really bicker, and it helps people get into character by loosening up. Plus, the constant flow of liquid helps the GM and chatty characters.

Plus, caffeine only makes you irritable if you've been drinking it steadily all day. If you know you're going to game, you should lay off caffeine during the day and only drink it just before and during the session. Then, you get the boost without the crash (while you're with the others). I agree that limiting your players diet is as ridiculous as assigning a dress code. It will cause fights instead of preventing them.

dyslexicfaser
2007-05-23, 03:21 PM
have you considered using violence?If violence isn't solving your problems, you're just not using enough of it.

Mr the Geoff
2007-05-23, 03:59 PM
While my group resorts to heavy caffeine intake this has a lot to do with age (aside from DM's 7 year old son we are aged twenty eight to forty something). Between a lorry driver, someone who works nights, a self employed shopkeeper etc a lot of us are tired before we even start gaming

The OP is of school age (or a teacher, but mentions talking over in school lunch break) where your energy levels are high enough that caffeine is optional. When I think back to when I was 18 I could drink all night, come home after dawn and still make my 9am lecture so heavy caffeine intake really is not the necessity it is for us old fogies.

And yes, heavy caffeine intake can make you very hyper. As a designated driver if I spend all night in a pub drinking cola I am acting at least as silly as the people who have been on the beers all night due to the serious amounts of caffeine and sugar in my system.

The difference is I am legal to drive afterwards (though not necessarily safe, I still like to lay off the coke about an hour before I get behind the wheel to give my body a chance to process it and let me not drive like I am on a playstation)