My precious!

[jabberwocky9]

What would be some ideas on how to steal a ring of nine lives from a fellow player character?

I'm proposing to forge a fake and switch it. I've been trying to come up with a scenario to be able to do this.

[FocusWolf413]

Cut off his finger? Hire someone to steal it?

[Flickerdart]

A DC 20 Sleight of Hand check allows you to steal the ring, even if the other guy beats your result with his Spot check.

[jabberwocky9]

Cut off his finger? Hire someone to steal it?

Specifically, without him knowing. Although, I did think of cutting his hand off which he wouldn't be able to use his halberd, lol.

[nedz]

Baleful Polymorph him into a cat.

It would be useful if we knew more about the two characters, and the rest of the party too - possibly ?

[BowStreetRunner]

I'm just curious as to what makes you think it is a good idea to steal a magic item from another PC in the first place. :smallconfused:

That having been said, if you do feel the need to go there I would suggest displaying a great liking toward an item of your own with which you don't really mind parting. Then when you steal his ring also go and get rid of your own item (sell it if you want or just chuck it away) and then act like you've been pick-pocketed and are upset about it. He won't suspect if you appear to also be a victim of this nefarious thief!

[atemu1234]

Sleight of Hand, or get it while he bathes or something.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

Taking off their magic items to bathe? Who would be crazy enough to so that?

[jabberwocky9]

I'm just curious as to what makes you think it is a good idea to steal a magic item from another PC in the first place. :smallconfused:

That having been said, if you do feel the need to go there I would suggest displaying a great liking toward an item of your own with which you don't really mind parting. Then when you steal his ring also go and get rid of your own item (sell it if you want or just chuck it away) and then act like you've been pick-pocketed and are upset about it. He won't suspect if you appear to also be a victim of this nefarious thief!

Well, as short and direct as I can be, there will come a time when I need another upper hand on him. There is war coming and his philosophy goes against mine and few other player characters. Currently have a group with multiple characters for each player and they will eventually need to choose sides. I haven't had the need to kill him yet since I will need him until that time comes if it at all. I may also use this ring to barter for his services to guide him in the direction I want. Personally, I will not be doing the bartering. Let him get pissed off at someone else.

As far as your idea, pretty good. It at least gives me ideas for the setting. Maybe going through the city market; sleeping out in the wilderness; hey pal, let's go to a brothel for your birthday, etc...

[jabberwocky9]

Taking off their magic items to bathe? Who would be crazy enough to so that?

Bathing? Don't know the last time a character took one if at all. Oh, I know, when we actually said we are after a long adventure, never. But it's an idea... +1 bath water to you.

[Jay R]

You are taking the first action to create a Player vs. Player game, and all your priorities will change when your worst enemy is traveling with you.

I don't have much in the way of advice, since I really don't like betraying friends. But he *will* eventually find out, and the game dynamic will be changed for ever.

[jabberwocky9]

You are taking the first action to create a Player vs. Player game, and all your priorities will change when your worst enemy is traveling with you.

I don't have much in the way of advice, since I really don't like betraying friends. But he *will* eventually find out, and the game dynamic will be changed for ever.

I understand what you are saying. Although, I am not taking the first action to create player vs. player game. Basically we have two groups. One group consist of rebels against the current regime of a so called higher race (homebrew race comparable to Elves of evil nature, not Drow) and this higher race with some affiliation and liking toward humans but mostly with a philosophical idea that they are better than humans.

So how this would play out is that eventually player characters vs player characters is understood and that role playing is the primary focus. So backstabbing you is nothing personal just business.

[sleepyphoenixx]

If your Sleight of Hand is good enough, and his spot low enough, you can pretty much switch it out whenever you want to. If that's too risky do it while he's sleeping. Buff your hide/move silently if necessary to make sure you're not noticed.
I'd suggest casting Nystul's Magic Aura on the fake too, just as an additional security measure.

Ideally his first indication that it's gone is when he relies on the rings powers to save his life, because after that he's no longer a problem for you even if he finds out.

[jabberwocky9]

If your Sleight of Hand is good enough, and his spot low enough, you can pretty much switch it out whenever you want to. If that's too risky do it while he's sleeping. Buff your hide/move silently if necessary to make sure you're not noticed.
I'd suggest casting Nystul's Magic Aura on the fake too, just as an additional security measure.

Ideally his first indication that it's gone is when he relies on the rings powers to save his life, because after that he's no longer a problem for you even if he finds out.

Good idea with the Nystul's Magic Aura, thanks.

[BowStreetRunner]

Okay, so PvP is already understood and you are not threatening the party dynamic by stealing from the other player. Good enough. Stealing the ring itself isn't really the problem here though - there are lots of ways to do that. What you really need is to steal the ring without the theft being traced back to you.

Forging a fake only delays discovery of the theft. It buys you time but doesn't solve the original problem. So while you may choose to use this as part of your solution, it isn't actually a solution by itself. In fact, depending on how you manage the theft the fake may actually not be a good idea - it suggests premeditation rather than a theft of opportunity. The one case where switching might make sense is if you intend to create a 'sunder' event to make him think the ring was destroyed - switch it out first then arrange for the fake to be sundered.

The actual theft can be a matter of sleight of hand, taking it while he is unconscious, or using some sort of effect on him that leaves his equipment behind (I don't recall if any of the polymorph type spells do this or if the ring just remains on his new form). Regardless of which method is used he can't know it was you that took it so the technique also can't be traced to you - for instance you can't knock him unconscious and then say someone else robbed him while he was out cold.

Every crime needs means, motive, and opportunity. You have the motive and we already went over the potential means. Opportunities include activities such as walking through the market, sleeping in the wilderness, sure - even going to a brothel. This is where it gets tricky. You need your mark to not be on his guard. When is a PC most vulnerable to having a magic ring stolen?

[Deophaun]

Regardless of which method is used he can't know it was you that took it so the technique also can't be traced to you - for instance you can't knock him unconscious and then say someone else robbed him while he was out cold.
Which is a problem in a game where divinations exist.

The nice thing about the ring is that it has charges. The other nice thing is that it only has charges, so he won't know something is wrong until he absolutely needs it (generally life and death situations, too). Steal it, suck it dry, then put it back.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Forging a fake only delays discovery of the theft. It buys you time but doesn't solve the original problem. So while you may choose to use this as part of your solution, it isn't actually a solution by itself. In fact, depending on how you manage the theft the fake may actually not be a good idea - it suggests premeditation rather than a theft of opportunity. The one case where switching might make sense is if you intend to create a 'sunder' event to make him think the ring was destroyed - switch it out first then arrange for the fake to be sundered.


The thing is that the rings powers are generally only useful in life or death situations. Unless he regularly checks over his equipment with Arcane Sight the most likely time for him to discover the switch is when he tries to use the ring to save his life - and fails.
Unless he has friends among the players that are both capable of and willing to raise him that's not really a problem for you.

Ideally you want to raise his corpse as some kind of undead to reduce the likelyhood of him coming back even further, unless you're absolutely sure no one is even going to try. That might be a little tricky to pull off without the other players getting suspicious though.



Which is a problem in a game where divinations exist.


Protection against divination shouldn't be too much of a problem if someone can afford a Ring of Nine Lives. It's a decent investment in a PvE game unless your DM metagames like crazy, and it's an absolute necessity if you're expecting PvP.

You'll want to sell off the ring at the first opportunity of course. No physical evidence is a pretty big step towards obscuring your involvement.
You'll also want to keep it a secret that you're investing points into sleight of hand, or that you're building up resources for PvP. Keeping the details of your build as vague as possible is generally a pretty good idea in a PvP campaign.

I've played a few campaigns like that and it can be a lot of fun if everyones into it. Especially if everyone sits down with a few beers after the campaign is over and reveals all the stuff they managed to pull off under each others noses.

[Deophaun]

Protection against divination shouldn't be too much of a problem if someone can afford a Ring of Nine Lives.
Neither is getting access to discern location, which, against a known object, is pretty much unblockable. From there, all your divinations target the object. The protections the thief has on himself become irrelevant.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Neither is getting access to discern location, which, against a known object, is pretty much unblockable. From there, all your divinations target the object. The protections the thief has on himself become irrelevant.

Which is why you get rid of the ring before the theft is noticed. Discern Location will tell the caster that the ring is in a shop in the city you were in weeks ago, with no connection to the thief. Keeping the loot when you're in the same party is just asking to get caught.

If you want to be really sure you destroy the ring, making it impossible to use Object Reading or similar abilities to link you to the theft. If your target doesn't have those abilities you can sell it and spend the gold on yourself.

Combined with the fact that by the time the victim notices he should be dead (because that's what you use a RoNL for, and nothing else) you actually have a pretty decent chance of pulling it off. Especially if you can somehow prevent him from being raised, which can be a little tricky to do unnoticed, but is otherwise not too hard.

It wouldn't work as well with most other items, especially ones that are actually used. But the RoNL just sits there, doing nothing until it's needed to prevent its owner dying. And when it doesn't do that because you switched it for a fake it's too late to investigate.

[Cwymbran-San]

You could try a double-bluff with him. Forge a copy of the ring, place Nystuls Magic Aura on it to appear as the real one and cast another Nystuls Magic Aura on the real ring to let it appear as non-magical.
Give the fake ring to a hired thief, have him sneak up on your victim, kill said thief (after an attempted/perceived burglary) and present the fake ring as the real deal ("look, he must have exchanged the rings so you would not notice!"), making him give up on the real one...could work with enough ranks in bluff...

[BowStreetRunner]

You could try a double-bluff with him. Forge a copy of the ring, place Nystuls Magic Aura on it to appear as the real one and cast another Nystuls Magic Aura on the real ring to let it appear as non-magical.
Give the fake ring to a hired thief, have him sneak up on your victim, kill said thief (after an attempted/perceived burglary) and present the fake ring as the real deal ("look, he must have exchanged the rings so you would not notice!"), making him give up on the real one...could work with enough ranks in bluff...
I can't say whether this would work in this particular instance, but I am definitely putting this on my list of D&D confidence scams.

[Deophaun]

Which is why you get rid of the ring before the theft is noticed. Discern Location will tell the caster that the ring is in a shop in the city you were in weeks ago, with no connection to the thief. Keeping the loot when you're in the same party is just asking to get caught.
All of which completely misses the point that he can determine it was you by targeting divinations at the ring.

Heck, he can cast commune and play 20 questions. Destroying a ring is an odd thing for an NPC to do, which leads to a very, very short list of suspects and a very direct set of yes/no questions.



It wouldn't work as well with most other items, especially ones that are actually used. But the RoNL just sits there, doing nothing until it's needed to prevent its owner dying. And when it doesn't do that because you switched it for a fake it's too late to investigate.

If you want to quote my post, just use the quote feature. Putting it in your own words is nice and all, but unnecessary.

[BowStreetRunner]

If you want to quote my post, just use the quote feature. Putting it in your own words is nice and all, but unnecessary.
Where is this coming from? Are you really threatened by the fact that someone else posted something similar to what you said? Or are you just trying hard to antagonize?

[Lvl 2 Expert]

A DC 20 Sleight of Hand check allows you to steal the ring, even if the other guy beats your result with his Spot check.

And if he does spot it, play it off as a joke, and give it back to him.







After you palm the real thing and switch it out for the forgery, of course. Not a very subtle method, good chance to get into a fight. It sounds perfect.