Making Intimidation Viable

[CGNefarious]

So I'm making a backup character for a campaign I'm in who is going to focus on Intimidation and Demoralizing his opponents. I'm currently planning on going Dread (Fear in Flesh) // Warlord (Privateer and Steelfist Commando). From what I can tell Privateer and Steelfist Commando should be stackable, since the only thing the both alter is disciplines, though please correct me if I'm wrong in that regard. My character is a Goblin who will be wielding a gun and using unarmed strikes when enemies get close.

I'm planning on using Black Seraph and Eternal Guardian to help give enemies the shaken/cowering/frightened conditions, and the Privateer's maneuver recovery is pretty much Dazzling Display with more reward. Insightful Terror and Penetrating Fear are two feats that I'm looking at. And for Terrors I'm thinking Terrified Escape, Mind Lock, Haunting Steps, Ranged Mindlock, Soul Chilling Fear, and Paranoia.

But after that I'm not sure what to do. I've never done an intimidate build before, and I'm not even sure if they're any good or not. The Dread can bypass fear immunity, and Eternal Guardian has a stance to bypass mind-affecting immunity as well, but is spreading around the shaken condition enough to spend all my resources on? I found a Damnation Feat that lets me use demoralize to give the frightened or cowering conditions if I beat the DC by enough, though that's a two feat investment.

Any advice on things I should look at to make a good Intimidation build/improve the build I already have?

[Taveena]

Well, by going Dread you've dealt with one of the biggest issues, at least.

A bit of a weird suggestion, but have you considered the Swarmlord Dread from Akashic Mysteries Supplementals? While it doesn't have the potential... absolute desecration of the action economy that Shadow Twin does, the veils benefit the build a lot more than Powers do (and it's less likely to make your DM cry) due to being passive.

Admittedly, a Riven Hourglass Warlord//Dread 15 can get 4 standards, 2 move actions, and 2 swifts a turn. And then they can trade those swifts for a standard and a move. Or, at 17, a full round and a standard.

But that's part of the problem. Dread is just... overwhelming, in Gestalt.

[Andreaz]

If you use Black Seraph extensively, you still want to get BS Style and Malevolence. It's a free +1 to +5 to AC and saves, plus +50% damage.

Always use a Cruel weapon to stack Sickened on top of Shaken.

[CGNefarious]

How is the Dread overwhelming in gestalt? I've never used the class before, so I'm probably just missing something.

And I was planning on using Riven Hourglass and Shadow Twin to break the action economy, but that comes online pretty late, so I am open to ideas. I'll check out the Swarmlord later today.

I was looking in BS Style as well, though unsure if it should be a part of my build. I'm not sure how Malevolence would help me, or even how I could take it since I can't claim creatures?

[EisenKreutzer]

If your GM allows it, you could go for the Intimidate skill unlocks from Pathfinder Unchained. Allowing Intimidate checks to escalate fear conditions is extremely valuable, and with the Dreads bonus to Intimidate checks you'll have no problem beatng the DCs.

[Andreaz]

How is the Dread overwhelming in gestalt? I've never used the class before, so I'm probably just missing something.Shadow Twin. It gives you a second character's worth of extra actions if there are enemies under any fear debuff nearby. Guess what.

[CGNefarious]

I looked at the skill unlocks, but while I could easily beat the DCs, wouldn't the fairly low Will save be a problem?

[Andreaz]

I looked at the skill unlocks, but while I could easily beat the DCs, wouldn't the fairly low Will save be a problem?

It's not that low. It's essentially 10+level. The whole range from 11 to 30.
Since everything the Unchaining adds is negated by a great save, you might feel it's not worth it. I feel it's worth a feat if you have a couple open over the build. You're intimidating for free already anyway.

[EisenKreutzer]

I looked at the skill unlocks, but while I could easily beat the DCs, wouldn't the fairly low Will save be a problem?

If you can convince your GM that demoralizing with Intimidate is a Fear effect, the Dread aura penalty could apply to the save.

EDIT: After doing some digging, demoralizing with Intimidate seems to be confirmed by Paizo to be a mind affecting fear effect. Which means the will save is affected by the Dread aura penalty.

[CGNefarious]

If I'm not mistaken, Pestilence Cloak's insight bonus should apply to that Will save as well. Making Unchained Intimidate very, very attractive.

[EisenKreutzer]

I made a multiclass Dread/Antipaladin build to take advantage of the twin, stacking fear auras. Thats -8 to the Will save against mind effecting fear effects, which includes Intimidate.

[Taveena]

I made a multiclass Dread/Antipaladin build to take advantage of the twin, stacking fear auras. Thats -8 to the Will save against mind effecting fear effects, which includes Intimidate.

The Intimidate skill does not offer a Will save, and is thus unaffected by Aura of Fear and Aura of Cowardice, save for removing immunity.

[EisenKreutzer]

The Intimidate skill does not offer a Will save, and is thus unaffected by Aura of Fear and Aura of Cowardice, save for removing immunity.

This is true, but I was specifically talking about the Unchained skill unlocks for Intimidate, which do offer a will save.

[Taveena]

This is true, but I was specifically talking about the Unchained skill unlocks for Intimidate, which do offer a will save.

... Huh. So it does. Weird. I guess I was running on Imperious Command logic.

[CGNefarious]

So I'm reading Psybomb's (I think) guide to the Dread, and it mentions under the Swarm Master archetype something about expanded bonus feat options. Reading the archetype in the Akashic Supplemental doc I don't see anything about bonus feats. Am I missing something?

[Sayt]

If you're happy playing an Evil character, if you take Black Seraph's Glare, Soulless Gaze and another Damnation feat of your choice. Hit someone, and then you cab theoretically Permanently Panic them, assuming you can reliably hit their Intimidate DC. I mean if you intimidate them on a 1, you can take an arbitrary number of intimidate checks.

Chances are you DM might throw heavy things if you abuse this too much, but it's a fun little interaction.

[CGNefarious]

OK, so I spent a few hours remaking my character based on your suggestions and my desire to be a Goblin Pirate who wields oversized guns. He's a Dread (Swarm Master)//Warlord (Privateer/Desperado). Here are the options I'm thinking about up until level 10.


Soulless Gaze Damnation Feat, Daring Gambit Ploy, Dazing Gambit Ploy
-
Fiendskin Damnation Feat
Sea Combat Ploy
Signature Skill: Intimidate, Extra Essence? (Dread Bonus)
Terrifying Brutality Ploy (Warlord Bonus)
?
Deadly Strike Ploy
Insightful Terror, Extra Capacity? (Dread Bonus)
Terrifying Strike Ploy (Warlord Bonus)



I haven't picked Terrors yet, though I assume those shouldn't change too much from my previous build. What do you guys think? Am I going to need more ranged combat stuff like Deadly Strike and Point Blank Shot, or should maneuvers do well enough on their own?