Multiclassing & Feats Optional

[steeldragons]

Is there anyone out there who is playing 5e WITHOUT multiclassing and feats?

If so, how's it going?

[pwykersotz]

I played without either for a short time when we first started the game. It was easy and fun. A great way to introduce new players and not have to do much work on the leveling process. I think it has its place mainly with groups who want to sit down and game without wasting any time and who don't want to spend their spare time re-reading the PHB.

That said, my main group loves both, and I do too. I'd have no hesitation playing without either variant, but it would not be my first choice for a way to play.

[Blood of Gaea]

The first couple games of 5e I played no one multiclassed, and it was fine.

Never played without feats, and I see no reason why I would want to.

[Yorrin]

The first 5e campaign I ran had nobody multiclassing, though it was allowed. Level 1-5 campaign. It went pretty well. The party was Ranger, Wizard, Cleric, Rogue, and sometimes a Fighter. Everyone pretty well filled the roles you would expect for their classes and enjoyed things pretty well.

[Finieous]

Yes, and with no ASIs (except fighter and rogue bonuses, probably because the DM couldn't think of anything to replace them with) and the no-skills option from the DMG. Character creation is probably faster than any edition of D&D: standard array, race, background, class, quick-pick equipment, go! Still way more class abilities than OD&D, B/X or 1e, so it doesn't feel at all limited if you're familiar with and enjoy those games. Combat is a little tougher, obviously, but I think it places more emphasis on player tactics and creativity. It's fast, clean and super-easy to manage at the table. With the right group (and DM), it's my favorite way to play.

[Human Paragon 3]

Why no ASIs and no skills? To mimic an AD&D/OD&D feel?

[Finieous]

Why no ASIs and no skills? To mimic an AD&D/OD&D feel?

Yeah, but along with that I do think there are a number of advantages (in addition to the "faster, cleaner, easier" mentioned above). On the skills, I personally think class-based games just work better without them grafted on, and 5e in my opinion has the tightest mechanics for this style of play of any edition. Whatever the player comes up with, it's an ability check, proficiency bonus if it's related to background or class. The net effect, in conjunction with the absence of feats, is that characters feel way less specialized and restricted to the character sheet, and way more competent and well-rounded within their background and class roles or niches.

On ASIs, it's just way less stress on the system (and "bounded accuracy"), especially at higher levels. Among other things, this may allow more leeway for magic items, if you prefer looting magic items from dungeons as opposed to implementing character "builds" as the primary mechanical means of character development in play. For a happy medium in a no-feat game, maybe +1 ASIs would work well: increasing your ability scores by 10-14 points over the course of a campaign is a lot!

[steeldragons]

Yes, and with no ASIs (except fighter and rogue bonuses, probably because the DM couldn't think of anything to replace them with) and the no-skills option from the DMG. Character creation is probably faster than any edition of D&D: standard array, race, background, class, quick-pick equipment, go! Still way more class abilities than OD&D, B/X or 1e, so it doesn't feel at all limited if you're familiar with and enjoy those games. Combat is a little tougher, obviously, but I think it places more emphasis on player tactics and creativity. It's fast, clean and super-easy to manage at the table. With the right group (and DM), it's my favorite way to play.

Thanks everyone for the comments...and keep 'em coming.

Just responding to this, in particular, because I think this sounds exactly like what I would like/be looking for...and what I expect/imagine it to be.

The no ASI's is an interesting choice as well...I hadn't really considered that.

Skills I basically consider to not exist anyway. You have a few things your class and background give you that grant you prof bonus to your ability check...but trying to do anything is an ability check...so I don't think those few things (a few more in the case of Rogues and Expertise being a foundational feature makes them count a bit more) really inhibit play.

[Blacky the Blackball]

Is there anyone out there who is playing 5e WITHOUT multiclassing and feats?

If so, how's it going?

My group are doing this, and it works absolutely fine. We started a campaign at first level and now - a year later - we've reached 11th level (with a party consisting of a Way-of-the-Fist Monk, a Moon Druid, an Assassin Rogue, a Tempest Cleric, a GOO Chain Pact Warlock, and a Wild-Magic Sorcerer). Not using feats or multiclassing hasn't been an issue at all.

Technically we are using both feats and multiclassing in that neither are "banned". It's just that the players haven't shown any interest in either. All their ASIs have been used to increase ability scores. Having said that, many of them have had their ability scores hit maximum by now in their prime requisites, so next time they get an ASI they might look at feats rather than bumping ability scores they use less often.

[kaoskonfety]

I've allowed multi-classing to one player who sat down before play start and said "I'm multi classing to this class here is why" - 15's were required in the class stats in this one case (shadow monk/ trickery cleric for a mystical ninja idea - so meeting the requirements was pretty easy) and I've banned many of the feats. I'm basically treating multi-classing like prestige classing - you need a compelling in character/game reason and special training. most people are not interested

I'm allowing the "half feats" that grant a +1 to a stat plus whatever trick (mostly to leave the armour proficiency and save feats on the table), Ritual Caster and Highly skilled (+3 skills).

Its a Skype game and not everyone has the books so I'm trying to keep the paperwork down a bit. So far I have encountered the opposite of issues, its working better, I feel, trimmed back.

Props to the DM who dropped stat advancement more or less completely - I like the idea, which I'd thought of it first :smallbiggrin:

[TopCheese]

I have a three shot coming up (8 hours each) and what we are doing is...

*13th Age Skill System
*Escalation Dice System
*No feats unless the ASI came from Barbarian, Fighter, or Rogue levels. (this was a compromise, the wizard wanted no ASI/Feats in the game)
*Grouping Saving Throws: (Str and Con), (Dexterity), and (Wis, Cha). If an ability calls for a saving throw you may use any within the group. So in order to resist being entangled (Normally Str save but you can use Str or Con Save with this system)
*Intelligence isn't an ability score but represented by the knowledge skills you have. (this changed up the previous one a bit, int saves become a Wis or Cha save).
*No multiclassing.
*Ability Score Increases: All races gain +2/+1 bonus. No human variant feat.

These we're each put in place by a player except the last one, that's mine. Many of these are "never tried it, let's try it".

I'm wondering how the multiclassing and feats stuff will work but I think it will do fine.

[steeldragons]

Just briefly/as an overview, not to derail the thread, but since I am unfamiliar...

What does the 13th Age skill system entail and why is it being "brought in" in lieu of the 5e skill system (I mean, what is the reason beyond "a player wants it")? Why does the player(s) want it?

And what is the "Escalation Dice system"? I don't believe I've ever seen that term/don't know what that means.

[TopCheese]

Just briefly/as an overview, not to derail the thread, but since I am unfamiliar...

What does the 13th Age skill system entail and why is it being "brought in" in lieu of the 5e skill system (I mean, what is the reason beyond "a player wants it")? Why does the player(s) want it?

And what is the "Escalation Dice system"? I don't believe I've ever seen that term/don't know what that means.

13th Age Skill System is kinda what 5e wants to be but isn't. It is very rules light without fiddly mechanics.

Escalation die is a d6 and starts at 1. Each round the die increases by 1. Players can add this to attack rolls (and damage? Need to look into it again before game day). This helps speed up battle and it shows a swing in battle as monsters are tough at first but once you get into the swing of things the players start getting better. There is more like creatures and PCs can do things based on the number or even reset it (jerk monsters) but we are going to use it for PC (and some monsters ;) ) attack rolls and saving throws.

We will be using it in different ways and it may or may not stay the same way from battle to Battle.

But look into 13th Age, it is a 3e/4e mash up game made by D&D designers from 3e and 4e. I'm loving it so far but it does have its issues too... If we mash up 13th Age with 5e... Things could get back on a better track.


I won't go further into it in this thread :)