Hammer of Thunderbolts; Is it really that good?

[Nishant]

I'm honestly curious. I can see why its powerful; Even why it's legendary, but the attunement issue gets me. Correct me if I'm wrong, you only get 3 attunement slots, right? so I have to use 2 on the Ogre Power Gauntlets and a giant belt, which have the singular ability to boost your strength to a flat number. The two overlap, giving you a minimum of 21 strength. That's cool, but then you use your third slot on the hammer? You've poured all of those attunements for that weapon, meanwhile your friends may have all sorts of weird and crazy items, giving them more utility. If I was choosing, I'd just pick a Giantslaying weapon in it's place. No attunement, and I'm still getting 2-12 extra damage; 4-24 on a crit. I may even still take a giant belt, but I've still got 2 more slots open if I decide to go that route.

What do all of you think? Does it need a fix?

[Goodberry]

Technically, it only says you have to be wearing the gloves and belt, it doesn't say you have to be attuned to them.

[Nishant]

I just assumed it meant that it meant they needed to be attuned as well. Is that not the case?

[Kane0]

I better not tell my party that. Our dwarf character has some mighty large RP things happening around a hammer of thunderbolts right now and if he found out he doesn't actually need the other two bits attuned that may change things...

[SharkForce]

based on previous editions, i think the +4 strength is supposed to be added to your strength including the giant's strength belt.

that is, if you have strength 23 from the belt, with the hammer of thunderbolts and gauntlets of ogre power you would get strength 27 (you'd still be capped at 30 if you had a strength 27 or better belt).

or at least, if that isn't how it's supposed to work, that's how i'd make it work. but it is entirely possible the only reason i think it should work like that is because i know what it did 20 years ago...

[JoeJ]

I'm honestly curious. I can see why its powerful; Even why it's legendary, but the attunement issue gets me. Correct me if I'm wrong, you only get 3 attunement slots, right? so I have to use 2 on the Ogre Power Gauntlets and a giant belt, which have the singular ability to boost your strength to a flat number. The two overlap, giving you a minimum of 21 strength. That's cool, but then you use your third slot on the hammer? You've poured all of those attunements for that weapon, meanwhile your friends may have all sorts of weird and crazy items, giving them more utility. If I was choosing, I'd just pick a Giantslaying weapon in it's place. No attunement, and I'm still getting 2-12 extra damage; 4-24 on a crit. I may even still take a giant belt, but I've still got 2 more slots open if I decide to go that route.

What do all of you think? Does it need a fix?

You're right about the attunement, but no fix is needed. Yes, with this combination you do give up some utility compared to your friends, in return for power. You get to be Thor.

[Occasional Sage]

based on previous editions, i think the +4 strength is supposed to be added to your strength including the giant's strength belt.

that is, if you have strength 23 from the belt, with the hammer of thunderbolts and gauntlets of ogre power you would get strength 27 (you'd still be capped at 30 if you had a strength 27 or better belt).

or at least, if that isn't how it's supposed to work, that's how i'd make it work. but it is entirely possible the only reason i think it should work like that is because i know what it did 20 years ago...

While that makes sense in previous editions, 5e does ability boosts very differently. Trying to import 2/3e thinking into 5e will lead to unforeseen problems, as tempting as the cultural legacy is.

[Nishant]

While that makes sense in previous editions, 5e does ability boosts very differently. Trying to import 2/3e thinking into 5e will lead to unforeseen problems, as tempting as the cultural legacy is.


I figured thats what it meant as well, and while 27 str is tempting, my issue is having to have the gauntlets attuned to, which makes them useless if you're wearing ANY giant's belt. I think that's whats getting me.

[MeeposFire]

I figured thats what it meant as well, and while 27 str is tempting, my issue is having to have the gauntlets attuned to, which makes them useless if you're wearing ANY giant's belt. I think that's whats getting me.

Assuming that the hammer does not improve str ( I do not recall), that you have to attune to all 3, and the +4 stacks with the belt str score then you could choose to think of the +4 str being given by the gauntlets. The hammer supplies the basic weapon properties, the belt the str score, the gauntlets provide the +4.

If you view it that way perhaps it makes you feel better?

[Logosloki]

Yes you use up all your attunement slots to activate this item as you must have any belt of giant strength and a pair of gauntlets of ogre power attuned to you before you can attune to the hammer. You gain the flat rate from the belt or the gauntlets and the weapon gives you +4 strength. It is up to the DM whether you interpret the +4 str as on top of the flat strength or native strength, though personally I would err on adding to the flat number.

I state that you have to be attuned because you are only allowed to wear one pair of gloves/gauntlets and one belt; if you take off either item you lose your attunement to the hammer.

It really does look like the weapon was ported over without consideration to the changes to gauntlets of ogre power and belt of giant strength.

[Sigreid]

It's thematic. According to legend even the mighty Thor required a belt of strength to lift his hammer and magic heavy gauntlets to protect him from the hammer's power. When it comes to balance, the full hammer set is the only way I can think of to get +17 to hit and +11 on damage without any feats. A 20th level fighter with this hammer and multiple attacks is a murder machine.

Edit: I also believe the +4 strength is after the belt making it one of the very few ways a character can hit a 30 strength. Otherwise it's not worth mentioning as the character probably gets better than that from the belt. This will do crazy things to your athletics and grappling checks etc. I mean we're talking literally stronger than dragons and giants.

[JackPhoenix]

I state that you have to be attuned because you are only allowed to wear one pair of gloves/gauntlets and one belt; if you take off either item you lose your attunement to the hammer.

You can only wear one pair of gloves/gauntlets and one belt at the same time, but as written, you don't have to be attuned to them to use the hammer, you just can't take them off, meaning it would cost you the slots on your body, but NOT the attunement slots (but you'll propably want to attune to the belt anyway, gauntlets, not so much)

[Goodberry]

Just asked on Sage Advice Facebook page. +4 Str stacks with belt.

[DireSickFish]

Where does it say you can only wear one pair of gloves and belt? This isn't 3.5 where we have item "slots" on a character. You should be able to wear 3 magic belts and attune to all of them, or 7 magic belts and attune to 3 of them. Is there something in the DMG that calls out only wearing 1 that I'm missing?

[JNAProductions]

Basic common sense. Multiple belts maybe, but multiple gloves? Not unless some are oversized, which would come with its own penalties.

[Goodberry]

Where does it say you can only wear one pair of gloves and belt? This isn't 3.5 where we have item "slots" on a character. You should be able to wear 3 magic belts and attune to all of them, or 7 magic belts and attune to 3 of them. Is there something in the DMG that calls out only wearing 1 that I'm missing?

DMG page 141 under "Multiple Items of the Same Kind."

[Spacehamster]

Take all 3 items to the dwarf in the docks district in Amn and have him make Crom-faeyr. :D

[endur]

Take all 3 items to the dwarf in the docks district in Amn and have him make Crom-faeyr. :D

That's a reference to BGII: Shadows of Amn, where Crom-faeyr is an upgrade of the Hammer of Thunderbolts.

[georgie_leech]

That's a reference to BGII: Shadows of Amn, where Crom-faeyr is an upgrade of the Hammer of Thunderbolts.

One heck of an upgrade too.

[Nishant]

One heck of an upgrade too.

I didn't know the reference. What all happens?

[SharkForce]

I didn't know the reference. What all happens?

becomes a +5 weapon with +5 electric damage on-hit, one-handed, autokills a variety of annoying enemies, and sets your strength to 25 (2nd edition 25... which is to say, +7 to hit, +14 damage, 95% smash doors (90% if they're magical), bend bars or lift gates (think: "Fezzik, the portcullis!") 99%, and carry 1500 lbs before any encumbrance). you are literally as strong as a titan. oh, and i think it also added an extra +5 to hit on top of all that.

[MeeposFire]

DMG page 141 under "Multiple Items of the Same Kind."

As I recall the restriction is based on whether you can wear multiples of a same item type. Multiple sets of boots no (unless I guess if you have multiple sets of feat). Multiple gloves probably not. Multiple belts? Debatable though one would look at you strangely if you did. I think the book lists some examples.

[Nishant]

becomes a +5 weapon with +5 electric damage on-hit, one-handed, autokills a variety of annoying enemies, and sets your strength to 25 (2nd edition 25... which is to say, +7 to hit, +14 damage, 95% smash doors (90% if they're magical), bend bars or lift gates (think: "Fezzik, the portcullis!") 99%, and carry 1500 lbs before any encumbrance). you are literally as strong as a titan. oh, and i think it also added an extra +5 to hit on top of all that.

That sounds a bit too rough to translate to 5e, but my DM loves that stuff...

[SharkForce]

As I recall the restriction is based on whether you can wear multiples of a same item type. Multiple sets of boots no (unless I guess if you have multiple sets of feat). Multiple gloves probably not. Multiple belts? Debatable though one would look at you strangely if you did. I think the book lists some examples.

debatable if you can wear 3 belts? clearly you're not familiar with the 3.5 hennet character art :) :P

edit: for those who want a visual:

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/forgottenrealms/images/b/b8/Hennet_Sam-Wood_PHB3e.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140912004315

[MeeposFire]

debatable if you can wear 3 belts? clearly you're not familiar with the 3.5 hennet character art :) :P

edit: for those who want a visual:

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/forgottenrealms/images/b/b8/Hennet_Sam-Wood_PHB3e.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140912004315

lol clearly those are not belts but an outfit made of buckles and that is different because of...REASONS!

Also I did say it would look silly....

[georgie_leech]

That sounds a bit too rough to translate to 5e, but my DM loves that stuff...

Sets your Strength to the cap, everything attached to that follows 5e instead of AD&D rules (e.g. STR Check to break down a door against a set DC, not a percentile roll), and the damage stuff ports over more or less directly. The thing was insane. The enemies it could slay instantly had a percent chance of dying when struck, no save.

[Kane0]

If you think belt buckle armor is silly AD&D had gnomish tinkerers armor or something, which was equal to studded leather due to the endless amounts of pockets full of useless gadgets the suit had covering it.

Edit: Here it is. Gnomish Workman's Leather:

https://pimg.togetter.com/6c2b0bade7308041a49c80c835243846d2e37bde/687474703a2f2f747769747069632e636f6d2f73686f772f6c 617267652f646672727974

[MeeposFire]

Sets your Strength to the cap, everything attached to that follows 5e instead of AD&D rules (e.g. STR Check to break down a door against a set DC, not a percentile roll), and the damage stuff ports over more or less directly. The thing was insane. The enemies it could slay instantly had a percent chance of dying when struck, no save.

I believe the death dealing was automatic not percentile based. Very brutal weapon.

[georgie_leech]

I believe the death dealing was automatic not percentile based. Very brutal weapon.

It's been a while, could very well be.

[MeeposFire]

It's been a while, could very well be.

Heck by the time you make that weapon you only really notice the effect on golems and sort of on trolls (though there are very few trolls at that point). Everything else dies so quickly due to their low HP relative to the damage this thing deals that even without the auto slaying it would probably kill them before the round is over anyway.


Possibly the best off hand weapon in the game.

[Coidzor]

Multiple belts? Debatable though one would look at you strangely if you did.

Depends on if you're playing pre-Spellplague or if there's a lot of J in your RPG, really.

[DracoKnight]

I'm honestly curious. I can see why its powerful; Even why it's legendary, but the attunement issue gets me. Correct me if I'm wrong, you only get 3 attunement slots, right? so I have to use 2 on the Ogre Power Gauntlets and a giant belt, which have the singular ability to boost your strength to a flat number. The two overlap, giving you a minimum of 21 strength. That's cool, but then you use your third slot on the hammer? You've poured all of those attunements for that weapon, meanwhile your friends may have all sorts of weird and crazy items, giving them more utility. If I was choosing, I'd just pick a Giantslaying weapon in it's place. No attunement, and I'm still getting 2-12 extra damage; 4-24 on a crit. I may even still take a giant belt, but I've still got 2 more slots open if I decide to go that route.

What do all of you think? Does it need a fix?

If you're attuned to the Gauntlets of Ogre Power the give you a 19 Strength.
If you're attuned to a Belt of Storm Giant Strength it gives you a 29 Strength.
If you're attuned to those two items and a Hammer of Thunderbolts it gives you a 30 Strength. Yes, that is reason enough to attune to all three. That's a +10 Strength bonus.