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View Full Version : Optimization Let's Optimize Hooked Shortspears



Inevitability
2015-10-06, 03:51 AM
I had this idea for a character which I thought was pretty interesting, so I wanted to get some feedback.

If you have, say, a battlemaster fighter with a 1-level dip in rogue (for athletics expertise) and the Tavern Brawler feat, who is wielding a shield and a hooked shortspear, could you make an attack with a hooked shortspear to trip your target (with Trip Attack added to it if necessary), drop the shortspear, punch the target with your next attack and attempt a grapple (through Tavern Brawler)? You'd end up with your target grappled and prone, which is a bad situation to be in.

How good is this strategy? Are there better ways to use a hooked shortspear?


The derro wield special weapons. They use a hooked shortspear, which is a martial melee weapon that deals 1d4 piercing damage, weighs 2 pounds, and has the light weapon property (see chapter 5, “Equipment,” of the Player’s Handbook). It doesn’t possess the thrown or versatile weapon properties of a normal spear. On a hit with this weapon, the wielder can forgo dealing damage and attempt to trip the target, in which case the target must succeed on a Strength saving throw or fall prone. The DC is 8 + the wielder’s Strength modifier + the wielder’sproficiency bonus.

JackPhoenix
2015-10-06, 10:17 AM
You don't need the hooked shortspear for that, if you have Extra Attack, you can shove instead of the first attack, then punch him and grapple as a bonus action. It's even potentionaly harder to resist this way, with your Athletics check (with expertise) against the targets, instead of fixed DC. Level 20: 1d20 +17 Athletics (str +5, proficiency bonus +6 x2 for expertise) vs. DC 17 str save. If you use Battlemaster's Trip attack, you don't need the spear either.

Or use Shield Master instead, shove with shield as a bonus action, stab the prone enemy with something more damaging and then drop the weapon and grapple instead of second attack.

Possible advantage to the spear is that it's light weapon, so you can TWF with them, but then you can't use shield or grapple as a bonus action from Tavern Brawler.