The Deep Ones: Twisted Seas and Alien Light

[LudicSavant]

Part of my ongoing series on the mythology of my world, where my goal was to take "classic" D&D gods and remake them into more complete religious ideologies people might actually want to worship. (See Wee Jas (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?450352-Wee-Jas-the-First-Lich&p=19941626), Corellon Larethian (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?461424-Corellon-Larethian-the-Architect-of-Blood-and-Seed&p=20098734), Nerull (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?443831-My-pantheon-s-take-on-Nerull), Erythnul (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?445290-Erythnul-the-Many&p=19869433&viewfull=1), Hextor (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?451475-My-pantheon-s-take-on-Hextor&p=19966308&viewfull=1), Lolth (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?480130-Lolth-Lady-Luck), Olidammara (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?445953-My-pantheon-s-take-on-Olidammara&p=19878025))

Also, intended to be readable in any order, and for it to be easy to transplant individual parts into other settings.

The Deep Ones (Procan, Sekolah, etc)
https://s8.postimg.cc/xausm5ywl/water_colossus_by_lappisch-d3i2opq.jpg (http://junedays.deviantart.com/art/Water-Colossus-211756958)
http://img15.deviantart.net/b4bb/i/2011/164/1/c/water_colossus_by_farkwhad-d3itl81.png (http://farkwhad.deviantart.com/art/Water-Colossus-213012145)
http://img15.deviantart.net/24bd/i/2011/167/c/6/rift_water_colossus_by_zulusplitter-d3iytim.jpg (http://zulusplitter.deviantart.com/art/Rift-Water-Colossus-213256174)
http://img05.deviantart.net/3ddf/i/2011/160/b/d/rift_contest_water_colossus_by_onikaizer-d3igrrg.jpg (http://onikaizer.deviantart.com/art/RIFT-Contest-Water-Colossus-212414092)
"Call me king, call me demon. Water forgets the names of the drowned."
- Tahm Kench, "League of Legends"

Expanded Domains: There are many Deep Ones with many domains. Common ones include Dragon Below, Windstorm, Weather, Watery Death, Water, Vile Darkness, Metal, Madness, Life, Blackwater, Animal, Cavern, Corruption, Darkness, Chaos, Charm, Gluttony, Knowledge, Ocean, Shadow, Seafolk, Entropy, and Evil.
Portfolio: Life (especially saltwater life, but all life has water in it), Aberrations (Aboleths, Mind Flayers, etc), Water, Oceans, The Abyss, Salt, Lost Technology, Psionics (especially Wilders), Bioluminescence, The Far Realms, Pressure, Madness
Theme: https://www.listenonrepeat.com/watch?v=2e2e3QU4ft0

Knowledge (Religion) DC 10:
In this world, the popular vision of hell is not a place of fire and brimstone, but a deep, dark, wet place of crushing pressure and mad physics populated by luminous alien forms and the looming hulks of Atlantean machinery.... for in this world, magic enabled early peoples to witness the deepest depths of the ocean, and there lies creatures far stranger than any fire-breathing dragon.

This is the Abyss, a place of terrifying contradictions. It is a place where water is all around you, but every drink is poison. It is a place of vast open spaces that exert a crushing claustrophobia. It is an unsheltered place of transparent fluid, yet Pelor's sunlight cannot pierce its depths, which are instead lit by the bright silhouettes of alien bodies. It is a place of poison and darkness, yet life flourishes. It is a place where lakes can exist underwater. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnkHRtpTztc) No less strange is the bizarre architecture that can be found in some places in the Abyss; cyclopean ruins of towering metal and thick, snaking cables that seem to loop and twist in on themselves, with interiors resembling metallic innards of a behemoth.

In these alien depths lie the Deep Ones, the chaotic font of primordial life and the source of all the world's oceans. It was the struggle of Corellon, Moradin, and Gruumsh to overcome the Deep Ones in the dawn times that made life apart from the poison seas possible.

It is said that being too long at sea drives men to death or madness, and none know the truth of this as well as sailors themselves, who often sacrifice to the terrible Deep Ones in order to keep them appeased and sleepy. Seeking to explore the depths of the ocean is often regarded as madness itself.

All aberrations are born of the Deep Ones. In this world, anglerfish and the like have the Aberration type.

https://s8.postimg.cc/dt0567mj9/8730cd30e75f1d3035bbba662753e7b0.jpg (http://imgur.com/LM3AQiR)

Knowledge (Religion) DC 15:
Long ago, long before the First Civilizations, there was the Creation War, where the gods forged the world as we know it today from the primordial sea and sealed away the lords of the old world, the Deep Ones, in the deepest trenches of the Abyss.

In the beginning, the world was wrapped in thick black clouds. There was no sunlight, and all beings glowed with their own, inner light, as did the volcanic earth itself. Before Moradin, land could not rise above the waves, and the world was wrapped entirely in water. Before Corellon, no life could exist apart from saltwater, and all blood was aberrant. Before Gruumsh, the sea was not subjected to the power of storm and sky, and water obeyed an entirely different kind of physics than it does today, flowing and writhing like the very life it spawned. Indeed, hurricanes are the result of Gruumsh wrestling the sea to keep it from rising up and consuming everything, returning the world to the briny depths from which the gods raised it.

Gruumsh wrapped the earth in sky to hold the sea down, so that Moradin could raise the core of the world and forge the land from it. When Moradin first created land, life could only exist on its shores and beaches, and nothing could survive inland, where all was dry and barren. Pelor's first purpose was to purify the sea with the power of evaporation, allowing fresh water, free of corrupting salt, to rain down upon the land, creating lakes and rivers free of the influence of the Deep Ones. Corellon then created a new kind of blood, foreign to the Deep Ones, and seeds which could use sunlight and the new purified water.

Though the Deep Ones are sealed away, their influence still seeps into the world around them, and their will spreads through their dreams. The deeper beneath the surface one goes, farther and farther from Pelor's light, the more it resembles the primeval world where the Deep Ones reigned over all. There, some still remember the old ways.

Knowledge (Religion) DC 20:
Salt contains the crystallized power of the Deep Ones, and is thus an ingredient in many spells and rituals, as well as a reagent for fueling life itself. Salt is said to be the essence of corruption, and to salt the land is to corrupt it. Salt flats are seen as forsaken, haunted places.

Unfortunately, theologians lament, we cannot live without salt or water. We are dependent upon the essence of the Deep Ones to live, and so it is, many priests say, that we are necessarily impure and imperfect. Others, such as the priests of Kord, might contend that it is a testament to our strength that we can overcome a base, aberrant nature. Some scholars claim that those of the most noble breeding have less connection to the Deep Ones (and more to Corellon) in their blood, and that through good bloodlines the influence of the Deep Ones can gradually be filtered out.

The twisting caverns of the underdark are said to have been carved out by the Deep Ones. Vast subterranean seas can be found in its deeper depths, and it is from here that the aberrations of the underdark first emerged.

Psionics comes from tapping into the power of the dreaming Deep Ones, which is present in all life, for all life comes from water. Bioluminescence is a sign of natural psionic potential, as indeed the first form of bioluminescence developed as a result of psionic displays. Sight developed later to see the psionic displays in a world that was otherwise all but completely dark. "Psionic tattoos" are actually a form of bioluminescence.

Knowledge (Religion) DC 25:
Many aquatic creatures refer to the surface world as "the Lack" or "the Empty." This reflects a certain mindset amongst many aquatic creatures which is perhaps fortunate for us. After all, the Sahuagin are smarter and stronger, on average, than humans... and the oceans still cover most of the world.

Aberrations tend to regard sunlight as alien light (that is, not coming from things on the earth itself, such as its molten core or bioluminescence), and "lightborne life" as otherworldly invaders. They see themselves as the native inhabitants of the world, and some Aboleths claim to still remember the beginning times when all things glowed with their own inner light. To them, we are the soulless aberrations, whose existence is only made possible by wretched artifice.

The bizarre ruins of flowering metal towers deep within the Abyss seem to have some connection with the Deep Ones and the ancient aberrations that preceded the First Civilizations, but their ultimate purpose is unknown. Some Sahuagin nations are actively engaged in investigating these places. Most believe that going anywhere near these places risks disturbing the Deep Ones. Some aberrations may have some idea of what is going on down there, but if they do they aren't explaining it to us.

Organization: Shadrahala, The City of Wisdom
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/a7/6d/3c/a76d3cbf54b6fa9992ca6daf6cd7f51d.jpg (https://www.pinterest.com/pin/67905906854902620/)

Even by conservative estimates, mind flayers need to consume a great deal of sentient brains over the course of their lifetimes. Moreover, higher quality brains are much preferred, offering both superior nutrition and flavor. As such, it is in the interest of a mind flayer connoisseur to maintain healthy, free range humanoid civilizations with high standards of education. In turn, some humans might see the value in super-intelligent administrators, even if they demand sacrifice.

Enter Shadrahala, a thriving metropolis rising from the tides of a subterranean ocean. It is known by many names, depending on who you ask... the City of Wisdom, the Gates of Madness, the Hanging Garden. Though the great majority of the population is humanoid, illithids form the legitimate ruling class. The people are not slaves, but willful citizens of the great city-cult, living side by side with aberrations (perhaps to the horror of foreign humanoids and aberrations alike). Here, the city is alight with magic, health care is free, education is robust and fun, government is efficient and responsive, all manner of psychedelic entertainments can be found, but hey... don't break the law.

The death penalty is applied liberally for rabble-rousers and troublemakers, via Shadrahala's swift and decisive justice system (after all, there is no shortage of psionic investigators). However, this is not the only source of brains for the illithid masters. Perhaps more shockingly to outsiders, many citizens of Shadrahala, especially the elderly or infirm, willfully petition for themselves to be eaten, for a variety of reasons. The faithful believe that through the consumption of their minds, they might live on as part of a greater being rather than wasting away of old age. Some even see it as a sort of way of being "elected to the governmental mind." Additionally, volunteers are granted honors, influence (such as giving political voice to a dying wish, a central tenet of Shadrahalan government), and pecuniary rewards. Shadrahalans are strong believers in this system's stability; any man willing to die to see his political beliefs enacted can do so, to at least some extent, without all the hassle of revolution. The system also works to ensure that any humanoid's political requests are directed towards the benefit of those they leave behind, rather than themselves. The illithids themselves are seen as relatively impartial, superintelligent mediators of political deathwishes. Volunteers retain the right to decide which illithid decides the fate of their brain (though this need not mean that that illithid personally devours it), which means that the best fed illithids are those who are most respected by the humanoid population.

The city itself is constructed in layers. The lowest—and largest—is comprised of spiraling towers built into colossal (sometimes artificially fortified and enlarged) stalactities which occasionally even plunge beneath the water's surface, where airtight quarters allow men to walk among denizens of the deep (not to mention maintain rather unique aquaculture and fishing industries). The interiors of these towers pierce upwards through the ceiling, connecting to caverns above. Folk travel between the towers by roads (on higher layers), hanging bridges, boats, and occasionally flight.

Example Deep One: Sekolah, The Great Shark
https://i.pinimg.com/564x/fe/fb/a8/fefba813de8ee2899572d0e4ca39f8b3.jpg

Knowledge (Religion) DC 10:
Sekolah is the god of sharks, a great devourer and great creator, exalted as one of the greatest of the Deep Ones, especially in many Sahuagin cultures. The Great Shark is credited by its worshipers as the ultimate adjudicator and incarnation of law, officiating over an endless struggle between mythic figures. These figures are the hunter, or "He Who Eats" and the hated, "It That Is Eaten." The struggle between these two figures is said to be reflected in every aspect of life.

Sekolah is the judge of who is hunter and who is hated. The feeling of hunger is Sekolah devouring your insides bit by bit; a judgment for going too long without a successful hunt. This sentence is carried out until one changes their ways or finds death. The inevitability of this fate is proof of Sekolah's impartiality, for hunger knows not race, creed, or status. All who would live, must eat.

Knowledge (Religion) DC 15:
In the beginning, there was blood. The entire sea was made of it, and throughout it all things engaged in an eternal feeding frenzy. It was a perfect existence, where all could eat their fill constantly. But over time, some beings near the surface began to hear strange whispers in the crashing waves, for it was the airy breath of the dry gods that caused these waves to form.

The most foolish among them listened to the lies these whispers told them: "You need not eat forever. First, you must ensure that you are never eaten, for it is death." Hearing this, these fish became craven, and tried to flee the very paradise that sustained them. Seeing them, others were confused, and over time more and more followed their example. Those who still ate were now forced to sometimes stop and chase after new prey. The seas of blood thinned as feeding frenzies became rarer. The dry gods sought to encourage this, sending streams of fresh water from the land and sky in order to dilute the world even further. All this, Sekolah smelled, and his hatred for those who had abandoned his paradise was great and terrible.

Those who had fled first, dolphins and whales, he punished with a terrible curse: to choke on water forevermore, forcing them to beg their dry gods for breaths of air instead. The whales sang in mourning, knowing that they were condemned to always return to the barren surface, living in fear of the waves that would always seek to strand them upon the beaches, where the dry gods would reward them only with death.

Knowledge (Religion) DC 20:
Ruin, at its core, seeks to break the universe down into smaller bits. To let energy escape via entropy, until all is spread out and uniform. But Sekolah opposes this force. It gobbles up the uniform void, and thus becomes something not uniform. In this way, eating is creative, and indeed all things are created in this fashion. And so it is that Sekolah is the creative force of law and order, opposing the destructive force of chaos and entropy.

Prey is tempted by entropy. They waste energy trying not to be eaten, rather than eating. This is represented not only in escaping prey, but also in the likes of concealed knowledge, lost opportunities, or stagnant wealth. Possessed of such deluded selfishness, what else could they be named but the hated?

By contrast, the hunter is creative, allowing all things to grow by consuming the old to give rise to the new. The hunter and the hated eternally oppose each other, and sharks are believed to be judges in this conflict. This belief may have arisen from the use of sharks as bloodhounds by sahuagin, and the fact that these bloodhounds would often attack whichever side was bloodied first in a hunt... even if it was its own handler. In this way the holy animals passed judgment.

The struggle between hunter and hated goes beyond food. In all things there is hunter and hated. The hunter seeks to consume and grow, be it in experience, knowledge, skill, strength, or anything else you are called to hunt. The hated simply tries to survive, to persist as things are. All of us have aspects of hunter and hated, but we should hate these complacent, cowardly parts of ourselves.

Sekolah does not discriminate by method. For example, a person who works for a paycheck and then pays a trapper in order to procure a meal has still successfully hunted. So has a tree that has overshadowed its competitors to secure sunlight. Or a merchant who has simply manipulated others into giving him what they need. Such guile is the mark of many a fine hunter in nature. All methods of hunting are valid... save of course those that fail to procure the meal. It is as simple and natural and uncompromising as that.

Sekolans praise dining as the highest form of pleasure, and Sekolan visions of heaven commonly emphasize feasting. However, the spirit of feasting can extend to all things, not just food, and many Sekolan celebrations play up alternative kinds of feasts, exalting in the consumption of knowledge, entertainment, opportunities, and indeed all things. However, Sekolan societies tend to have little pity for the have-nots. After all, their hunger is the punishment of a perfectly impartial arbiter. They are reduced to mere skin and bones, a fitting fate for those who have failed to hunt.

Knowledge (Religion) DC 25:
"Sekolah" is a word in an old Sahuagin language roughly meaning "The Apex Predator." If something was ever able to eat Sekolah, it would simply be Sekolah, and take on the responsibilities of the position.

Code of Conduct: Paladins of Sekolah
https://s8.postimg.cc/j4f1qxvr9/YXIMSZW.jpg (https://www.deviantart.com/taurus-chaoslord/art/Dentharius-Berserker-329410885)
"Confront them with annihilation, and they will then survive; plunge them into a deadly situation, and they will then live. When people fall into danger, they are then able to strive for victory."
- Sun Tzu, discussing the merits of intentionally getting your own soldiers cornered in "The Art of War"

This code of conduct applies to those who would call themselves paladins of the faith, not just any follower of Sekolah. It is perhaps worth noting that any mention of how to treat a hunt or a meal applies to how to treat anything, for the struggle between hunter and hated is reflected in all things.

- Paladins of Sekolah are expected to act as impartial judges who can be trusted to resolve affairs with merciless fairness. Sekolah's judgments transcend the boundaries of race, creed, status, tribe, or even method. A true sahuagin will devour even its own kin, if it is just. Do not let worldly loyalties or petty biases cloud your righteous judgment.

- Use the whole animal. When you consume a thing, see that it is consumed in its entirety. You need not do so alone, and you may share the fruits of your hunt or leave leftovers for scavengers and the like, but do not waste. To be wasteful is to allow prey to escape even in death.

- Partake until you are sated. Do not settle for a half-empty stomach, unless doing so is an investment in an even greater meal in the future. Strive always to grow, for it is by eating that base chaos is ordered into higher forms.

- Wounds on the back are a warrior's shame. Do not flee. Kill or be killed. To show your back is the mark of the hated... save when it is merely the ruse of the hunter, baiting a trap.

- Emulate always the way of the hunter, and scorn the way of the hated. Do not concern yourself overmuch with petty self-preservation, for the success of the sea is greater than any individual fish. Undeath is especially offensive. Instead, focus your hunter's eyes solely on the best way to achieve your goals, rather than fear the consequences of failure.

[Mith]

Love it! Have you written something similar to this before? I feel like I have read this (or a very similar) Creation Story before.

[Jendekit]

I am liking these more and more and more! Now I just need to figure out a way to merge them organically into the future of the setting that I'm currently working on.

[LudicSavant]

Love it! Have you written something similar to this before?

Yes, I've posted this creation story before. Also, many cultures have creation stories about forging the world from conflict or chaos.


I am liking these more and more and more! Now I just need to figure out a way to merge them organically into the future of the setting that I'm currently working on.

I'm glad you like it! :smallsmile:

Also, here's a song about the anglerfish (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9t7E4amWDqI&feature=youtu.be&t=38s), just because.

[ReaderAt2046]

Continuing my series on the mythology of my world (see Nerull (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?443831-My-pantheon-s-take-on-Nerull), Olidammara (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?445953-Olidammara-the-Laughing-Rogue), Erythnul (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?445290-Erythnul-the-Many&p=19869433&viewfull=1)).

The Deep Ones (Procan, Sekolah, etc)
http://pre09.deviantart.net/b3fc/th/pre/i/2011/156/8/d/water_colossus_by_lappisch-d3i2opq.jpg
http://img15.deviantart.net/b4bb/i/2011/164/1/c/water_colossus_by_farkwhad-d3itl81.png
http://img15.deviantart.net/24bd/i/2011/167/c/6/rift_water_colossus_by_zulusplitter-d3iytim.jpg
http://img05.deviantart.net/3ddf/i/2011/160/b/d/rift_contest_water_colossus_by_onikaizer-d3igrrg.jpg
"Call me king, call me demon. Water forgets the names of the drowned."
- Tahm Kench, "League of Legends"

Expanded Domains: There are many Deep Ones with many domains. Common ones include Dragon Below, Windstorm, Weather, Watery Death, Water, Vile Darkness, Metal, Madness, Life, Blackwater, Animal, Cavern, Corruption, Darkness, Chaos, Charm, Gluttony, Knowledge, Ocean, Shadow, Seafolk, Entropy, and Evil.
Portfolio: Life (especially saltwater life, but all life has water in it), Aberrations (Aboleths, Mind Flayers, etc), Water, Oceans, The Abyss, Salt, Lost Technology, Psionics (especially Wilders), Bioluminescence, The Far Realms, Pressure, Madness
Theme: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2e2e3QU4ft0

Knowledge (Religion) DC 10:
In this world, the popular vision of hell is not a place of fire and brimstone, but a deep, dark, wet place of crushing pressure and mad physics populated by luminous alien forms and the looming hulks of Atlantean machinery.... for in this world, magic enabled early peoples to witness the deepest depths of the ocean, and there lies creatures far stranger than any fire-breathing dragon.

This is the Abyss, a place of terrifying contradictions. It is a place where water is all around you, but every drink is poison. It is a place of vast open spaces that exert a crushing claustrophobia. It is an unsheltered place of transparent fluid, yet Pelor's sunlight cannot pierce its depths, which are instead lit by the bright silhouettes of alien bodies. It is a place of poison and darkness, yet life flourishes. It is a place where lakes can exist underwater. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzUEr7uMnXU) No less strange is the bizarre architecture that can be found in some places in the Abyss; cyclopean ruins of towering metal and thick, snaking cables that seem to loop and twist in on themselves, with interiors resembling metallic innards of a behemoth.

In these alien depths lie the Deep Ones, the chaotic font of primordial life and the source of all the world's oceans. It was the struggle of Corellon, Moradin, and Gruumsh to overcome the Deep Ones in the dawn times that made life apart from the poison seas possible.

It is said that being too long at sea drives men to death or madness, and none know the truth of this as well as sailors themselves, who often sacrifice to the terrible Deep Ones in order to keep them appeased and sleepy. Seeking to explore the depths of the ocean is often regarded as madness itself.

All aberrations are born of the Deep Ones. In this world, anglerfish and the like have the Aberration type.

http://i520.photobucket.com/albums/w325/OneWinged4ngel77/11039011_893485750717910_7130079874736248388_n.jpg

Knowledge (Religion) DC 15:
Long ago, long before the First Civilizations, there was the Creation War, where the gods forged the world as we know it today from the primordial sea and sealed away the lords of the old world, the Deep Ones, in the deepest trenches of the Abyss.

In the beginning, the world was wrapped in thick black clouds. There was no sunlight, and all beings glowed with their own, inner light, as did the volcanic earth itself. Before Moradin, land could not rise above the waves, and the world was wrapped entirely in water. Before Corellon, no life could exist apart from saltwater, and all blood was aberrant. Before Gruumsh, the sea was not subjected to the power of storm and sky, and water obeyed an entirely different kind of physics than it does today, flowing and writhing like the very life it spawned. Indeed, hurricanes are the result of Gruumsh wrestling the sea to keep it from rising up and consuming everything, returning the world to the briny depths from which the gods raised it.

Gruumsh wrapped the earth in sky to hold the sea down, so that Moradin could raise the core of the world and forge the land from it. When Moradin first created land, life could only exist on its shores and beaches, and nothing could survive inland, where all was dry and barren. Pelor's first purpose was to purify the sea with the power of evaporation, allowing fresh water, free of corrupting salt, to rain down upon the land, creating lakes and rivers free of the influence of the Deep Ones. Corellon then created a new kind of blood, foreign to the Deep Ones, and seeds which could use sunlight and the new purified water.

Though the Deep Ones are sealed away, their influence still seeps into the world around them, and their will spreads through their dreams. The deeper beneath the surface one goes, farther and farther from Pelor's light, the more it resembles the primeval world where the Deep Ones reigned over all. There, some still remember the old ways.

Knowledge (Religion) DC 20:
Salt contains the crystallized power of the Deep Ones, and is thus an ingredient in many spells and rituals, as well as a reagent for fueling life itself. Salt is said to be the essence of corruption, and to salt the land is to corrupt it. Salt flats are seen as forsaken, haunted places.

Unfortunately, theologians lament, we cannot live without salt or water. We are dependent upon the essence of the Deep Ones to live, and so it is, many priests say, that we are necessarily impure and imperfect. Others, such as the priests of Kord, might contend that it is a testament to our strength that we can overcome a base, aberrant nature. Some scholars claim that those of the most noble breeding have less connection to the Deep Ones (and more to Corellon) in their blood, and that through good bloodlines the influence of the Deep Ones can gradually be filtered out.

The twisting caverns of the underdark are said to have been carved out by the Deep Ones. Vast subterranean seas can be found in its deeper depths, and it is from here that the aberrations of the underdark first emerged.

Psionics comes from tapping into the power of the dreaming Deep Ones, which is present in all life, for all life comes from water. Bioluminescence is a sign of natural psionic potential, as indeed the first form of bioluminescence developed as a result of psionic displays. Sight developed later to see the psionic displays in a world that was otherwise all but completely dark. "Psionic tattoos" are actually a form of bioluminescence.

Knowledge (Religion) DC 25:
Many aquatic creatures refer to the surface world as "the Lack" or "the Empty." This reflects a certain mindset amongst many aquatic creatures which is perhaps fortunate for us. After all, the Sahuagin are smarter and stronger, on average, than humans... and the oceans still cover most of the world.

Aberrations tend to regard sunlight as alien light (that is, not coming from things on the earth itself, such as its molten core or bioluminescence), and "lightborne life" as otherworldly invaders. They see themselves as the native inhabitants of the world, and some Aboleths claim to still remember the beginning times when all things glowed with their own inner light. To them, we are the soulless aberrations, whose existence is only made possible by wretched artifice.

The bizarre ruins of flowering metal towers deep within the Abyss seem to have some connection with the Deep Ones and the ancient aberrations that preceded the First Civilizations, but their ultimate purpose is unknown. Some Sahuagin nations are actively engaged in investigating these places. Most believe that going anywhere near these places risks disturbing the Deep Ones. Some aberrations may have some idea of what is going on down there, but if they do they aren't explaining it to us.

This is good stuff, man. I may borrow some of this for a setting I'm working through.

[LudicSavant]

I didn't add any organizations or other "extras" for this one... thinking about doing so in the future. Any ideas?

There's a ton of "aberrant" build options in supplements, so I'm looking into those. Aberration-shape druids and the like.

[Landis963]

Perhaps the most compelling thing about this (at least to me) is that the Deep Ones that consider sunlight an artifice are technically right to think so, given that Pelor was constructed by the work of the 3 Kings.

[Mith]

I didn't add any organizations or other "extras" for this one... thinking about doing so in the future. Any ideas?


Perhaps a shadow cable that goes across the surface like the Kraken Society from the Forgotten Realms.

[LudicSavant]

Perhaps a shadow cable that goes across the surface like the Kraken Society from the Forgotten Realms.

What's the Kraken Society? Source?


Perhaps the most compelling thing about this (at least to me) is that the Deep Ones that consider sunlight an artifice are technically right to think so, given that Pelor was constructed by the work of the 3 Kings.

They could also be considered right to say that it is alien light. That is, the sun is literally extraterrestrial. When it broke through the thick black clouds that covered the world in an earlier geographic era, its bright light was utterly foreign. Some Aberrations even regard the change in geographic eras to be the result of a sort of terraforming by invaders (in many versions of the creation myth, those invaders are of course the gods of the royal pantheon).

The story is also consistent with the fact that life can thrive without sunlight or photosynthesis in deep sea or subterranean environments. For instance, wikipedia says:



Since, at such deep levels, there is little to no sunlight, photosynthesis is not a possible means of energy production, leaving some creatures with the quandary of how to produce food for themselves. For the giant tube worm, this answer comes in the form of bacteria. These bacteria are capable of chemosynthesis and live inside the giant tube worm, which lives on hydrothermal vents. These vents spew forth very large amounts of chemicals, which these bacteria can transform into energy. These bacteria can also grow free of a host and create mats of bacteria on the sea floor around hydrothermal vents, where they serve as food for other creatures. Bacteria are a key energy source in the food chain. This source of energy creates large populations in areas around hydrothermal vents, which provides scientists with an easy stop for research. Organisms can also use chemosynthesis to attract prey or to attract a mate. [5]

Life can even go without hydrothermal vents:



Oceanic crust

In 2013, researchers reported their discovery of bacteria living in the rock of the oceanic crust below the thick layers of sediment, and apart from the hydrothermal vents that form along the edges of the tectonic plates. Preliminary findings are that these bacteria subsist on the hydrogen produced by chemical reduction of olivine by seawater circulating in the small veins that permeate the basalt that comprises oceanic crust. The bacteria synthesize methane by combining hydrogen and carbon dioxide.[6]

Also, chemosynthesis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemosynthesis). On top of that there'd be the energy output of things like psionics (who knows how that would work). Altogether this means that the idea of life thriving without photosynthesis in the highly volcanic dawn times is plausible.

[Mith]

What's the Kraken Society? Source?


http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Kraken_Society

It's a basic idea to use. Probably works better to have an aboleth run things though.

Also, are mind flayers and beholders connected to this as Abberations that made it successfully onto land? Perhaps the Mindflayers are corrupted human cults, where the cult leader was turned into an Elder Brain, and the rest of the cult turned ito mind flayers. I have no idea about how to do an origin of the beholders though.

[LudicSavant]

Also, are mind flayers and beholders connected to this as Abberations that made it successfully onto land? Perhaps the Mindflayers are corrupted human cults, where the cult leader was turned into an Elder Brain, and the rest of the cult turned ito mind flayers. I have no idea about how to do an origin of the beholders though.

Yes. They may not be aquatic, but their distant ancestors were. There's also a pretty direct route from the lightless sea to land-based environments: The underdark, large parts of which are a "Sunless Sea" type setting (after all, large cave systems naturally tend to get flooded). This is why you find so many aberrations living down there.

In my setting, various cultures acknowledge evolution (at least, in terms similar to ancient Greek, Roman, Chinese, and Middle Eastern theories on evolution (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_evolutionary_thought#Greeks)). It's also connected with some ideologies about reincarnation.

[ReaderAt2046]

Another thought: If it's generally known among the educated that psionic power is drawn from the deep, than psionics would have some of the same stereotypes as necromancy or diabolism does in more conventional settings. There could well be factions, even powerful and influential factions, of the surface religions that denounce psions as depraved followers of the Deep Gods, or places in the world where the use of psionics is banned.

[LudicSavant]

Another thought: If it's generally known among the educated that psionic power is drawn from the deep, than psionics would have some of the same stereotypes as necromancy or diabolism does in more conventional settings. There could well be factions, even powerful and influential factions, of the surface religions that denounce psions as depraved followers of the Deep Gods, or places in the world where the use of psionics is banned.

I could totally see some people scoffing at even referring to it as a type of "magic." Even if full psionics/magic transparency is in effect.

[Dusk Raven]

Haven't read all the knowledge DC results, due to being pressed for time, but I always do like a touch of the Lovecraftian. Lovecraft's own work makes one wonder if he was an ichthyophobe, but the deep ocean is certainly a source of the unknown. I once heard it said that we know more about deep space than the deep ocean, and I can believe it.

I think too many fantasy worlds neglect the ocean and focus on the land, so I always try and make sure my settings has at least a few sapient races in the ocean.

Generally when I think of underwater monstrosities I think of The Ocean Hunter, but I do love those illustrations you linked. All aberrations coming from the deep ocean is an interesting idea, as is some real-world creatures being made into aberrations (deep-sea lie tends to look the part). I haven't read the full OP, as I say, but if aberrations come from the ocean, and life comes from the ocean... which form of life is truly "aberrant?"

[Miejoe]

First time using the shiny new reply button on this forum.

Hi Ludic, I'm here to stalk you, but not really. Also, hi Duskydragun. <3

The Lovecraftian vibe makes me happy. It kind of reminds me of the new Cove region in the Darkest Dungeon. In a good way, because I really like it. As somebody who is terrified of dark water, I am scared. Very scared.

This is so cool. You're a great writer!

[Blake Hannon]

If I'm interpreting this correctly, the deep ones are actually the good guys in this story. They were just minding their own business when the Big Three came along and decided, arbitrarily, that it had to be destroyed to make room for something else.

[Eldan]

For organizations, how about these two ideas:

Aboleths have a racial memory that goes back before the present world (probably to the watery primordial chaos). How about a cult that tries to tap into their own racial memories? Elves have the Eternal Blade in Tome of Battle that does something like that, but I was thinking of a psionic cult that uses powers of knowledge and memory (Mindlink, Mindprobe, Schism, Fusion, Hypercognition, etc.) to create a kind of group-mind able to see into their own genetic past as a way to power.

Alternatively, humanoid blood is still water and salt, like the sea. How about, then, a blood cult. BLood magic, in this setting, would be very aberation-themed. There's all manner of avenues, there. Drinking salt water. Drinking blood. Spreading your blood into the sea. Replacing your blood with salt water. Drinking the blood of aberrations. And of course thematic variations. Sharks smell blood in water. BLood-drinking fish, like the Candiru or lampreys.

[SorenKnight]

If I'm interpreting this correctly, the deep ones are actually the good guys in this story. They were just minding their own business when the Big Three came along and decided, arbitrarily, that it had to be destroyed to make room for something else.

The point, if I'm interpreting it correctly, is moral ambiguity. The religion of the Deep Ones is supposed to be something people might actually want to worship, so they can't all be one dimensional "I wanna destroy the world because I can" villains. It has to be understandable that people would worship them, and your reaction indicated that he succeeded.

[Mith]

Apophis had similar goals to The Deep Ones, but he was still an enemy of Creation to the Egyptian people.

[LudicSavant]

The point, if I'm interpreting it correctly, is moral ambiguity. The religion of the Deep Ones is supposed to be something people might actually want to worship, so they can't all be one dimensional "I wanna destroy the world because I can" villains. It has to be understandable that people would worship them, and your reaction indicated that he succeeded.

The purpose is to create more compelling, thought-provoking, and verisimilar (http://beta.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/verisimilar) setting elements for PCs to explore... or even want to worship themselves! And, of course, to provide a well of plot hooks, interesting conflicts, and the like. Posing challenging moral questions is part and parcel of that, and I'm glad that you feel I've succeeded in that!

To quote a relevant LessWrong article (http://lesswrong.com/lw/ux/traditional_capitalist_values/, which I think is good reading for anyone looking to put more verisimilitude into their worlds), "Real value systems - as opposed to pretend demoniacal value systems - are phrased to generate warm fuzzies in their users, not to be easily mocked. They will sound noble at least to the people who believe them."

Real philosophies, no matter how heroic or vile, tend to paint themselves as the protagonists in their own narratives, or at least have some justification for why it's right for them to be the bad guy (such as what I did for Hextor). In the case of my pantheon, every deity can be seen as hero or villain by others in the setting. And, if you hear the case for a deity as given by one of their most intelligent and successful true believers, that case should appear convincing, at least on the surface.

To one, Nerull is terrifying oblivion and the end of everything meaningful. For another, Nerull is merciful salvation and the beginning of a new and indeed better reality. Who (if either) is really correct? Perhaps you (or your PC) think you know, and will fight for what you believe to be the right course of action. Perhaps your opinion may change as new information is revealed during the course of a campaign. After all, stories of the gods are incomplete or shrouded in myth, and humanity is bad at playing telephone. This is all material that can be explored in a game.

In the case of the Deep Ones, there are many sides to the story. Justifiable or not, one may not be so eager to go along with, say, a plan to collapse the land back into the sea or to block out the alien sun with a supervolcanic eruption. Or even just to, you know, eat brains.

Speaking of which, here's a fun idea from my friend hiryuu on a possible mind flayer faction:

Let's talk about Illithids, this'll be fun. According to The Illithiad (shush, bear with me), a mind flayer needs one brain of a month to stay alive - that's bare minimum - and it needs to be from an intelligent creature with the ability to reason (no using Int 4 critters, the mind flayer needs meat). Smart and clever brains taste better. We are told they keep slaves for this, or make raids.

This means one mind flayer, at minimum, needs to kill 12 people a year. Now, since the brains have to be adult brains, they need a maturation period of 16-17 years or more. That means the minimum brain input a mind flayer needs to get to a given brain is about 150 brains. That's a lot of raiding or slave raising. Illithiad also says there's ~100 or more illithids in a given city or town run by them, on top of what the elder brain eats (we'll ignore it for a moment). That's 15,000 brains over the course of 16 years, which may not seem like much, but that's the bare minimum - it's like forcing your entire population to live on unseasoned instant ramen for a decade and a half. In order for your population to maintain that level of consumption, you should probably have about ten times that - you need breeders and educators (you want your brains smart, they need to be tasty) and then you need to keep up their maintenance - feeding them and pumping away their waste is a big job. You also need to house them, can't keep them in cages, it makes for horrible food.

Basically what this means is that you might have a small group of illithids in charge of a huge city-cult devoted to them and devoted to producing smart, intelligent members of the populace who might even petition to be eaten, on top of the rabble-rousers and troublemakers (this is probably why the ancient Gith had high enough numbers to stage a coup and win). Welcome to the city of mind flayers, where health care is free, education is robust and fun, but hey, don't break the law.

How's that for an organization/faction? :smallsmile:

I like the idea of aberrations and non-aberrations having to overcome crazy obstacles like "we need to eat the live brains of your species" in order to achieve relatively peaceful co-existence... and actually seeking to do so! Perhaps to the horror of other humanoids and aberrations alike (kinda like how the elves and dragons alike were horrified by half-dragons in Eberron).

I can totally imagine people petitioning to have their brains eaten, too. After all, they may believe that they live on as a component part of a greater being instead of wasting away in old age, or even that this is a sort of way of being "elected to the governmental mind." Also, it could come with honors, influence (such as giving political voice to a dying wish), or pecuniary rewards.

[Max_Killjoy]

Interesting thread -- I'll be sure to check out the others.

It's actually very relevant to something I've been working on for about week, an idea that has sort of temporarily taken over all the creative parts of my brain.

And you used my favorite word (verisimilitude).

[Mith]

Thoughts on the Deep Ones (that may already be reflected in this thread). This is what I have developed for my setting:

The Deep Ones (and all aberrations) do not have a concept of Individuality. All organisms are part of the Deep Mind that connects all life. All aberrations feel this connection, which is the binding unification between all aberration races/nations/tribes. When one dies, their mind is absorbed by the Deep Mind, as their body is absorbed by natural processes to create new life. Evolutionary cycles enable for stronger life forms to arise that increases the power of the Deep Mind

Gods of the Sea are more reflections of the mass belief of the worshipers, much like the "insane" Kua-Toa. Ancient denizens of the Oceans may gain enough veneration to gain divine status as well. These gods are constructs within the Deep Mind. This is explicitly different from divine gods where there are multiple aspects of the same deity.

The Deep Ones views the mortal races created by the gods as true aberrations, because their sense of Individuality (aka "the soul") blocks their connection to the Deep Mind. While the body and mind of divine creations still undergo the absorption process upon death, these races do not feel the connection that exist between all life forms. The Deep Ones seek to destroy the divinely created life forms, since then the Deep Mind will eventually be able to overwhelm the land, and restore the primordial state to the planet.

Hopefully this makes sense.

[Jendekit]

Thoughts on the Deep Ones (that may already be reflected in this thread). This is what I have developed for my setting:

The Deep Ones (and all aberrations) do not have a concept of Individuality. All organisms are part of the Deep Mind that connects all life. All aberrations feel this connection, which is the binding unification between all aberration races/nations/tribes. When one dies, their mind is absorbed by the Deep Mind, as their body is absorbed by natural processes to create new life. Evolutionary cycles enable for stronger life forms to arise that increases the power of the Deep Mind

Gods of the Sea are more reflections of the mass belief of the worshipers, much like the "insane" Kua-Toa. Ancient denizens of the Oceans may gain enough veneration to gain divine status as well. These gods are constructs within the Deep Mind. This is explicitly different from divine gods where there are multiple aspects of the same deity.

The Deep Ones views the mortal races created by the gods as true aberrations, because their sense of Individuality (aka "the soul") blocks their connection to the Deep Mind. While the body and mind of divine creations still undergo the absorption process upon death, these races do not feel the connection that exist between all life forms. The Deep Ones seek to destroy the divinely created life forms, since then the Deep Mind will eventually be able to overwhelm the land, and restore the primordial state to the planet.

Hopefully this makes sense.

:eek:

Very interesting.

What I ended up doing with the Deep Ones in my setting is that they are more akin to the jotun from Norse mythology. One of them ended up being a hostage (in the feudal sense) and marrying Boccob. To the surprise of everyone, the two hit it off really well. Opposites attract and all of that.

[Max_Killjoy]

:eek:

Very interesting.

What I ended up doing with the Deep Ones in my setting is that they are more akin to the jotun from Norse mythology. One of them ended up being a hostage (in the feudal sense) and marrying Boccob. To the surprise of everyone, the two hit it off really well. Opposites attract and all of that.

I'm suddenly reminded of a certain scene or two from Galaxy Quest...


https://i.imgur.com/DIro3VX.png

[Deepbluediver]

As with many other people, I'm sure, I'm bookmarking this for future reference.

Unfortunately I can't offer much feedback- while I love the idea that a pantheon and/or cosmology is deeply tide into a campaign's setting, I also think it's very personal and so there's not a lot I can find to criticize. Some of it might be different from the way I'd do things, but it's definitely not wrong in any objective way. And if it works for you, then it works for me.

[Winter_Wolf]

Cyclopean! Going full Lovecraft, you dirty, dirty boy you. Ah, the ocean. Vast, mysterious...and full of squidgy things that want to eat you. The Deep Ones are otherwise very sympathetic. Deep ocean horrifies me, yet it's so compelling. Another good installment.

[Cyclopean]

You rang, Winter_Wolf?

More seriously, I'm loving the work on this pantheon. I'm definitely getting tons of inspiration for my own setting and I'm eager to watch the metaphysics develop.

[Winter_Wolf]

You rang, Winter_Wolf?



*cough* well, uh hey there's some irony. Mentally I just had an image of John Cleese screaming that word.

[LudicSavant]

The first of two organizations I will be adding to the Deep Ones entry. Thanks to Raygun Goth for giving me the idea to make a mind flayer city in the first place. :smallsmile:

Organization: Shadrahala, The City of Wisdom
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/a7/6d/3c/a76d3cbf54b6fa9992ca6daf6cd7f51d.jpg

Even by conservative estimates, mind flayers need to consume a great deal of sentient brains over the course of their lifetimes. Moreover, higher quality brains are much preferred, offering both superior nutrition and flavor. As such, it is in the interest of a mind flayer connoisseur to maintain healthy, free range humanoid civilizations with high standards of education. In turn, some humans might see the value in super-intelligent administrators, even if they demand sacrifice.

Enter Shadrahala, a thriving metropolis rising from the tides of a subterranean ocean. It is known by many names, depending on who you ask... the City of Wisdom, the Gates of Madness, the Hanging Garden. Though the great majority of the population is humanoid, illithids form the legitimate ruling class. The people are not slaves, but willful citizens of the great city-cult, living side by side with aberrations (perhaps to the horror of foreign humanoids and aberrations alike). Here, the city is alight with magic, health care is free, education is robust and fun, government is efficient and responsive, all manner of psychedelic entertainments can be found, but hey... don't break the law.

The death penalty is applied liberally for rabble-rousers and troublemakers, via Shadrahala's swift and decisive justice system (after all, there is no shortage of psionic investigators). However, this is not the only source of brains for the illithid masters. Perhaps more shockingly to outsiders, many citizens of Shadrahala, especially the elderly or infirm, willfully petition for themselves to be eaten, for a variety of reasons. The faithful believe that through the consumption of their minds, they might live on as part of a greater being rather than wasting away of old age. Some even see it as a sort of way of being "elected to the governmental mind." Additionally, volunteers are granted honors, influence (such as giving political voice to a dying wish, a central tenet of Shadrahalan government), and pecuniary rewards. Shadrahalans are strong believers in this system's stability; any man willing to die to see his political beliefs enacted can do so, to at least some extent, without all the hassle of revolution. The system also works to ensure that any humanoid's political requests are directed towards the benefit of those they leave behind, rather than themselves. The illithids themselves are seen as relatively impartial, superintelligent mediators of political deathwishes. Volunteers retain the right to decide which illithid decides the fate of their brain (though this need not mean that that illithid personally devours it), which means that the best fed illithids are those who are most respected by the humanoid population.

The city itself is constructed in layers. The lowest—and largest—is comprised of spiraling towers built into colossal (sometimes artificially fortified and enlarged) stalactities which occasionally even plunge beneath the water's surface, where airtight quarters allow men to walk among denizens of the deep (not to mention maintain rather unique aquaculture and fishing industries). The interiors of these towers pierce upwards through the ceiling, connecting to caverns above. Folk travel between the towers by roads (on higher layers), hanging bridges, boats, and occasionally flight.

[raygun goth]

I love the city - mostly because I have spoken about illithid cities many times.

I imagine the mind flayers have entertainment designed to give people a longer sense of time and lives, like psionic microcosms and memory orbs like the Society of Sensation or like the video game Roy from Rick & Morty. Spectator life-living inside a psionic microcosm!

Cool science fairs all the time where the illithids judge cool magic item creation competitions like the World's Fair!

Of course, people who live here will view the Githyanki as insane religious extremists who have no idea what they're doing. Rebellion would be insane. Like some kind of terrible monster that can't be negotiated with. Their queen has damned them to a life of sadness, ignorance, and eventual consumption by her not for any noble cause, but merely because she fears power other than her own. Such a sad people.

[Inevitability]

This. I like this. The concept of a beautiful, utopian place that only functions because of horrible things is interesting in itself, but with the whole population being okay with the horrible things another layer of moral complexity is added.

I may actually steal this concept for a future game, if only to watch the players squirm with ethical insecurity.

[raygun goth]

I may actually steal this concept for a future game, if only to watch the players squirm with ethical insecurity.

Make it their new hometown. The one all their family moved to in order to help them succeed in life. Start the adventure with them getting settled in. Make them meet a kindly old mind flayer gentleman who chuckles a lot and tells old man stories that don't go anywhere.
_______________

When I did it, I had two other classes of people, the Daelkyr Half-Bloods, which made weapons out of their own bodies and also served as "psionically engineered" supersoldiers, and the Elan, which is what happens when a mind too great to simply allow to be devoured is scheduled for food. They take the soul and cram it into a small elder brain bud, and it grows on the wall into a psychic construct suffused with their essence.

[Max_Killjoy]

The first thing that comes to mind is Omelas (http://engl210-deykute.wikispaces.umb.edu/file/view/omelas.pdf).

[kraftcheese]

The first thing that comes to mind is Omelas (http://engl210-deykute.wikispaces.umb.edu/file/view/omelas.pdf).
I've never read Omelas before, but I dont think anyone's ever made me feel, really feel, the way Le Guin does.

Ngl The Disposessed made me cry a few times.

[Jendekit]

Glad to see some new material for these deities, even if it isn't a new one!

[GorinichSerpant]

The way you describe this city, it almost makes it sound like mindflayers are meant for the purpose of this city/it's humanoids then the other way around. Being super intelligent,impartial (to humanoid affairs), and being biologically tied to a incentive system that promotes the growth of said humanoids. They almost seem designed to do the administrative work for us and do it willingly. Whether or not that is true, this seems like the nice selling pitch for Shadrahala.

It occurs to me that the mindflayers that go around enthralling people and eating them against their will are probably just as terrible to those that live in this city.

[TheOctopus]

The first of two organizations I will be adding to the Deep Ones entry. Thanks to Raygun Goth for giving me the idea to make a mind flayer city in the first place. :smallsmile:

Organization: Shadrahala, The City of Wisdom
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/a7/6d/3c/a76d3cbf54b6fa9992ca6daf6cd7f51d.jpg

Even by conservative estimates, mind flayers need to consume a great deal of sentient brains over the course of their lifetimes. Moreover, higher quality brains are much preferred, offering both superior nutrition and flavor. As such, it is in the interest of a mind flayer connoisseur to maintain healthy, free range humanoid civilizations with high standards of education. In turn, some humans might see the value in super-intelligent administrators, even if they demand sacrifice.

Enter Shadrahala, a thriving metropolis rising from the tides of a subterranean ocean. It is known by many names, depending on who you ask... the City of Wisdom, the Gates of Madness, the Hanging Garden. Though the great majority of the population is humanoid, illithids form the legitimate ruling class. The people are not slaves, but willful citizens of the great city-cult, living side by side with aberrations (perhaps to the horror of foreign humanoids and aberrations alike). Here, the city is alight with magic, health care is free, education is robust and fun, government is efficient and responsive, all manner of psychedelic entertainments can be found, but hey... don't break the law.

The death penalty is applied liberally for rabble-rousers and troublemakers, via Shadrahala's swift and decisive justice system (after all, there is no shortage of psionic investigators). However, this is not the only source of brains for the illithid masters. Perhaps more shockingly to outsiders, many citizens of Shadrahala, especially the elderly or infirm, willfully petition for themselves to be eaten, for a variety of reasons. The faithful believe that through the consumption of their minds, they might live on as part of a greater being rather than wasting away of old age. Some even see it as a sort of way of being "elected to the governmental mind." Additionally, volunteers are granted honors, influence (such as giving political voice to a dying wish, a central tenet of Shadrahalan government), and pecuniary rewards. Shadrahalans are strong believers in this system's stability; any man willing to die to see his political beliefs enacted can do so, to at least some extent, without all the hassle of revolution. The system also works to ensure that any humanoid's political requests are directed towards the benefit of those they leave behind, rather than themselves. The illithids themselves are seen as relatively impartial, superintelligent mediators of political deathwishes. Volunteers retain the right to decide which illithid decides the fate of their brain (though this need not mean that that illithid personally devours it), which means that the best fed illithids are those who are most respected by the humanoid population.

The city itself is constructed in layers. The lowest—and largest—is comprised of spiraling towers built into colossal (sometimes artificially fortified and enlarged) stalactities which occasionally even plunge beneath the water's surface, where airtight quarters allow men to walk among denizens of the deep (not to mention maintain rather unique aquaculture and fishing industries). The interiors of these towers pierce upwards through the ceiling, connecting to caverns above. Folk travel between the towers by roads (on higher layers), hanging bridges, boats, and occasionally flight.

This is absolutely amazing. Mind if I borrow it for my home games?

[LudicSavant]

This is absolutely amazing. Mind if I borrow it for my home games?

Sure! Let us know how it goes. :smallsmile:


I love the city - mostly because I have spoken about illithid cities many times.

I imagine the mind flayers have entertainment designed to give people a longer sense of time and lives, like psionic microcosms and memory orbs like the Society of Sensation or like the video game Roy from Rick & Morty. Spectator life-living inside a psionic microcosm!

Cool science fairs all the time where the illithids judge cool magic item creation competitions like the World's Fair!

Of course, people who live here will view the Githyanki as insane religious extremists who have no idea what they're doing. Rebellion would be insane. Like some kind of terrible monster that can't be negotiated with. Their queen has damned them to a life of sadness, ignorance, and eventual consumption by her not for any noble cause, but merely because she fears power other than her own. Such a sad people.

All of that sounds very fitting to me. A visit to Shadrahala can expand one's consciousness in a wide variety of ways. Or see it devoured entirely.

Also, Roy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szzVlQ653as) is just awesome.


This. I like this. The concept of a beautiful, utopian place that only functions because of horrible things is interesting in itself, but with the whole population being okay with the horrible things another layer of moral complexity is added.

I may actually steal this concept for a future game, if only to watch the players squirm with ethical insecurity.

You could probably intensify the squirming even more by showing some aberrations who consider lightborne life abominable demonstrating ethical insecurity about Shadrahalan aberrations. :smallwink:

[Dagda Mor]

Of course, people who live here will view the Githyanki as insane religious extremists who have no idea what they're doing. Rebellion would be insane. Like some kind of terrible monster that can't be negotiated with. Their queen has damned them to a life of sadness, ignorance, and eventual consumption by her not for any noble cause, but merely because she fears power other than her own. Such a sad people.

What's interesting about this is that an occasional targeted attack by githyanki against an illithid who happens to be associated with Shadrahala would be taken by the city's general populace as a terrorist attack on their society. The illithids would see the githyanki in the same category as bandits, but because of the political system their subjects would instead have long since driven Shadrahala to declare some kind of general war upon githkind.

[sktarq]

So Salt. (a Favorite Book) (https://www.amazon.com/Salt-World-History-Mark-Kurlansky/dp/0142001619) is something I'm always interested in.

Now salt is often cloaked in ritual. People were paid in it (the root of the word salary), it was key in the welcoming rituals of breaking bread in many cultures. How would these rituals change in a world where salt is the symbol of one's own impurity and corrupt origins? I'm thinking it is going to closer to rituals of confession, self-flagellation, ashura etc. Which also brings up questions about food like ham or cheese which needs salt to make, would they be considered "low class" food as nobles want to avoid salt and the "corruption" associated with it. Which would drive industries to other forms of preservation, air curing and some fermentation etc. But damn it would make cuisine less interesting.

Salt is also unique in that it is one of a very very few material things we crave when we are short of them. It is that hardwired into our brains. In a world were salt is linked to moral decay instead of moral purity as it classically is in our world, how is this pull treated? Like a homosexual urge in 1950's America? a homosexual urge in ancient Rome? Different societies would obviously do it differently but i could well see it being a powerful thing in each. (Some consider salt extremely private and sharing salt is deep sign of friendship while others push it into public to show that ALL are impure)

Also what about salt merchants? Also the miners, evaporation workers, etc. They would be deeply necessary but also a sign of ones own impurity and corruption. It would seem to be likely to drive one either to hyper religious purity to combat the stigma or not caring at all and being willing to track with all sorts of other undesirables, or only being done by outcasts who have no power or social standing (prisoners, slaves, Dalit "untouchables", etc). This may tie into salt taxes. Salt taxes were huge drivers of ancient governments because everyone had to eat salt but in this set up it would also count as a "sin tax". That could drive those taxes very high. Which would make the government want people to consume more salt which is driving "corruption" into its own population. Its a moral catch 22 for them. . . which could lead to a bunch of interesting takes and plothooks. Since whole cities and towns were based off this trade (It was the engine of the economy of the Republic of Venice, Saltzburg, every town in England ending in -wich) how are these towns viewed? Would they become centres for dealing with one's own sins? Religious strongholds, home to meditation centers and therapists? Or would they become more like a Las Vegas that nobody can actually afford to get rid of since people actually need salt to live. . . either way they sound like interesting places to send adventurers.

Also salt comes up in a fair amount of alchemy and even early industrial processes (either chemically or a desiccant). But it is found in glaze for ceramics very commonly, some leather treatments, dye work, etc. Would that mean these trades become morally suspect to some? Would that drive very religious people to want to eat off wooden plates instead of glazed ceramic for example? I could well imagine the elves having such a reaction.

Also since salt preserves things like a mummy....how would this effect their view of embalming. Salt was classically involved. Would they just use things like alcohol or would the very concept of artificial preservation be tainted?

Been thinking while blood is about 1% salt and seawater is 3-4% the connection is still there.
Some classic theory is that the ocean was less salty when life first got its chemistry going and that forgotten ocean is what we recreate in our blood.
So did Corellion make blood from seawater and purify it as much as possible? Does he contain salt himself and he drew his own blood in order to create this new life? What does that say about his own power? It seems a rich source of theological debate.

[LudicSavant]

*snip*

Great post. A lot of good ideas here, and I really appreciate you sharing! I may have to take a look at that book, too. :smallbiggrin:


Also salt comes up in a fair amount of alchemy and even early industrial processes (either chemically or a desiccant). But it is found in glaze for ceramics very commonly, some leather treatments, dye work, etc. Would that mean these trades become morally suspect to some? Would that drive very religious people to want to eat off wooden plates instead of glazed ceramic for example? I could well imagine the elves having such a reaction.

Yes! Those on quests for greater spiritual purity, a la ascetics and the like, might eat off wooden plates and so forth.


Also since salt preserves things like a mummy....how would this effect their view of embalming. Salt was classically involved. Would they just use things like alcohol or would the very concept of artificial preservation be tainted?

Different cultures and deific affiliations have different views on funerary rites (as detailed to some degree in Nerull's entry). Some of the most common types of burials are Jasidin (which discourage embalming, emphasizing the importance of decomposition in the cycle of life), Nerullan (in which alternative embalming methods to salt are encouraged), and Peloran (cremation).

The taint of improper burial rites is sometimes claimed to be a cause for undeath.



(Some consider salt extremely private and sharing salt is deep sign of friendship while others push it into public to show that ALL are impure)

Oooh, I like that idea.


Now salt is often cloaked in ritual. People were paid in it (the root of the word salary), it was key in the welcoming rituals of breaking bread in many cultures. How would these rituals change in a world where salt is the symbol of one's own impurity and corrupt origins? I'm thinking it is going to closer to rituals of confession, self-flagellation, ashura etc. Which also brings up questions about food like ham or cheese which needs salt to make, would they be considered "low class" food as nobles want to avoid salt and the "corruption" associated with it. Which would drive industries to other forms of preservation, air curing and some fermentation etc

To add to this, nobles have easier access to alternative flavoring and preservatives, especially those made available by low level magic such as Prestidigitation (flavoring) or Shape Water (refrigeration). They also have greater access to fresh food in general. Ergo, they may claim their superior diet as part of their noble pedigree.


Been thinking while blood is about 1% salt and seawater is 3-4% the connection is still there.
Some classic theory is that the ocean was less salty when life first got its chemistry going and that forgotten ocean is what we recreate in our blood.
So did Corellion make blood from seawater and purify it as much as possible? Does he contain salt himself and he drew his own blood in order to create this new life? What does that say about his own power? It seems a rich source of theological debate.

This was precisely my intention. :smallsmile:

[sktarq]

Yeah. Since salt is historically linked to purity (for its ability to stop the corruption of food rot and also to be dissolved and come back post evaporation) and is also so deeply necessary for life when you take it and flat out reverse it and associate it with corruption things get interesting. . . .

so yeah. It is a significant change to many daily life things in ways that are not generally adventurer aimed but those changes can be mined for plot hooks and key cultural traits.

[Max_Killjoy]

Yeah. Since salt is historically linked to purity (for its ability to stop the corruption of food rot and also to be dissolved and come back post evaporation) and is also so deeply necessary for life when you take it and flat out reverse it and associate it with corruption things get interesting. . . .

so yeah. It is a significant change to many daily life things in ways that are not generally adventurer aimed but those changes can be mined for plot hooks and key cultural traits.


Maybe you end up with the sort of sects that consider the physical world to be inherently corrupt.

[sktarq]

Maybe you end up with the sort of sects that consider the physical world to be inherently corrupt.

That is a pretty classic dualistic idea. One of the things that i think would play on this though is the actual need for salt. Avoiding salt enough will kill you. So avoiding corruption will kill you. That has a neat reservoir to work with....people wanting to become undead because that would be less corrupt in their mind (as undeath came from the gods but life didn't).

And actually the desire for salt being a chemical thing is another interesting play to explore that idea that a person WANTS corruption in the same way they want food. That hunger for "corruption" would be a great way to sell your own evil cult, for example...it is obviously natural.


. . . and I really need to not try and explain in game potential philosophy on a day after I forgot to go to sleep. Word failure mashup and lack of an ability to articulate beyond general idea shapes.

[Zorku]

There's a ton of "aberrant" build options in supplements, so I'm looking into those. Aberration-shape druids and the like.The big distinction I see between beasts and aberrations is that aberrations have magical and supernatural abilities. If you were going to give somebody free reign to turn into those creatures you'd probably want to create a list of three of options. They'd have their uses, but not necessarily give players free access to the full range of the petrification and disintigration sorts of options aberrations so frequently have available.


Yes. They may not be aquatic, but their distant ancestors were. There's also a pretty direct route from the lightless sea to land-based environments: The underdark, large parts of which are a "Sunless Sea" type setting (after all, large cave systems naturally tend to get flooded). This is why you find so many aberrations living down there.
This makes me want to apply isopod body plan features to an elder brain and mindflayer community. An elder brain that rolls up into a little ball...

Ooh, what terrible way can I bring the tongue eating louse into this picture?


If I'm interpreting this correctly, the deep ones are actually the good guys in this story. They were just minding their own business when the Big Three came along and decided, arbitrarily, that it had to be destroyed to make room for something else.

It's such deep time that there's not a lot we can tell about the nature of the conflict. We've just got the mythological narrative, obviously conveyed by the patron deities of the major races. If we assume it's a biased account then we can still tell that this world didn't originally belong to the races of man, but we've known that for a long time. WHY did old one eye wrestle the waves? I dunno, god reasons. Why did grumpy move the Earth? God reasons. Why did Pelor and Corellon do their jazz? Obviously god reasons.



I can totally imagine people petitioning to have their brains eaten, too.
That got me picturing an honor society like ancient Japan. Instead of impaling yourself, you feed yourself to a mindflayer, to make up for dishonorable results.


Yeah. Since salt is historically linked to purity (for its ability to stop the corruption of food rot and also to be dissolved and come back post evaporation) and is also so deeply necessary for life when you take it and flat out reverse it and associate it with corruption things get interesting. . . .

so yeah. It is a significant change to many daily life things in ways that are not generally adventurer aimed but those changes can be mined for plot hooks and key cultural traits.
I feel that people would view rot as the natural order, and because they all know salt to be necessary, you'd get a lot stronger emphasis on balance than on purity.

Imagine where alchemy would have gone with a balance principle instead of misguided notions of purification? I'm picturing a whole boat load of finely made bronze metalwork in that kind of world, and maybe even precocious steel manufacturing.

[LudicSavant]

The big distinction I see between beasts and aberrations is that aberrations have magical and supernatural abilities. If you were going to give somebody free reign to turn into those creatures you'd probably want to create a list of three of options. They'd have their uses, but not necessarily give players free access to the full range of the petrification and disintigration sorts of options aberrations so frequently have available. The option to turn into such creatures is already available in 3.5e (For example, Aberration Wild Shape in Lords of Madness).


This makes me want to apply isopod body plan features to an elder brain and mindflayer community. An elder brain that rolls up into a little ball...

Isopods (https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/ce/11/b6/ce11b661d0c25a921edbe91e7f41fc94.jpg) are awesome. I approve.


Ooh, what terrible way can I bring the tongue eating louse into this picture?

Perhaps check out the Tongueworm Symbiont aberration in the Eberron Campaign Setting.

[Zorku]

The option to turn into such creatures is already available in 3.5e (For example, Aberration Wild Shape in Lords of Madness). I always forget when I start looking outside of edition specific forums. Only apply my advice on wildshape to 5e.

[sktarq]

Okay, looking at how the discussion of how natural/unnatural the Deep Ones are, wild shape, etc. It makes me ask.

What is the relationship between Druids and deep ones like?

Classically Druids are around as far from the deep ones as possible. The Deep Ones and their thematic kin are most usually termed unnatural as often as horrifying-it's their shtick.

Druids are also less classically associated with single gods in D&D (Thanx Gynax)

So there is room here for multiple set ups.

Druids are connected to the total creation of the Gods more than any single God and are extra extra enemies of the Deep Ones (who otherwise don't appear much in the stories of the deities)

That Druids are Divided along a Divine/Deep One axis like clerics are on Channeling positive/negative energy. With linked distrust to druidic practices.

That druids dislike the dieties for their separation of the world into natural and unnatural systems. And thus they (or at least many) reject the dieties. While their reaction to this vary (with some making the best of the situation, other actively looking to change things (and pointing to wild shape as proof of their correctness))

Druids consider the deep ones part of the pantheon of nature. A fourth King almost-who sired the others. But worthy of equal respect.

So lots of ways to play it. But I think it could be a good discussion to build organizations from.




Also I've been meaning to bring it up. But how I was linking Salt to things like hunger and associated holiness. . . Well Jains consider the eating of other life in some sense a sin. The most pious thing you can do is starve yourself to death. The skulls of such people are used as ritual objects. It may be a good vein to research for ideas and inspiration for the corruption/biological necessity that appears here.

[falcon1]

First, this is awesome.

Second, a question? How are pearl divers, fisherman, and other people who spend a lot of time on or in the water treated? I can see them being considered untouchables of a sort, or even criminals.

Also, what are pearls considered? I could see them being worshipped, used as foci for powerful magic...they definitely seem like they should have some sort of association.

[LudicSavant]

First, this is awesome. Thanks! I'm glad you like it :smallsmile:


Second, a question? How are pearl divers, fisherman, and other people who spend a lot of time on or in the water treated? I can see them being considered untouchables of a sort, or even criminals.

Sailors are often seen not quite so differently from how they are sometimes seen in our own world: Tough folk, brave, but superstitious, uncouth, and rather strange. And there are stories of strange cults and practices used out at sea, or of men going mad on extended voyages. But on the whole sailors and fishermen are worthwhile folk who face down the dangers of the wilds in the pursuit of their professions. Saltwater fish are not generally considered high class fare, but they generally aren't shunned either (a sufficiently snooty noble might turn up their nose, as might the sort of ascetics who go to great physical lengths to seek purity). Fare from the *deep* seas, which have never known Pelor's light, is another matter entirely. Deep sea fishing is often considered taboo, or even outright dangerous to the community (risking the attention of things best left undisturbed).

I'm planning on doing an entry concerning sailor cults, superstitions, and practices.


Also, what are pearls considered? I could see them being worshipped, used as foci for powerful magic...they definitely seem like they should have some sort of association.

Pearls are psionically useful, and can be used to make power stones.


What is the relationship between Druids and deep ones like?

The short answer is that it (http://i.imgur.com/uBZIgvW.jpg) depends (http://i.imgur.com/QSdl2UB.jpg) on (http://i.imgur.com/21il8sg.jpg) which (http://i.imgur.com/TTK2ayx.jpg) druids (http://i.imgur.com/3QNtNpb.jpg) you're (http://i.imgur.com/CWT8sQe.jpg) asking (http://i.imgur.com/ITd70Jg.jpg). Druids are not of one mind any more than Fighters or Bards or Clerics or Wizards.

There are druids who see aberrations as abominations to be wiped out with all the ferocity and zeal of a mother bear defending her den. And then there are those that can turn into tentacle monsters with Aberration Wild Shape and decry lightborne life as alien invaders. And there are those who think that all things have their place in the balance. And so on and so forth.

That said, the idea of anything being "unnatural" always seemed at best... imprecise to me, even when it was elaborated on in books like Lords of Madness. It seems like the wrong word for what's going on. Or at least like there are more informative words we could be using.


INIMICAL TO NATURE
Aberrations have no rightful place in the natural order of things. They are interlopers and invaders, creatures whose presence damages the fragile chains of being that define the natural world. A monster such as a chuul is more than a large and voracious predator, it is an affront to nature. Nothing in nature feeds on a chuul, and nothing in nature possesses the instincts or behavior to avoid the monster. Its depredations, if allowed to continue unchecked, eventually depopulate a wide swath of territory, destroying all normal fauna in its vicinity.

You know what that sounds like to me? It doesn't sound like something unnatural so much as it sounds like an invasive species (https://www.nwf.org/Wildlife/Threats-to-Wildlife/Invasive-Species.aspx). A creature from another mode of existence, utterly foreign to our own, whose introduction to an ecosystem threatens that ecosystem.

And many druid sects don't like invasive species. They value biodiversity and balance and seek to preserve it. These sects often act as gatekeepers, protecting their chosen domains or ecosystems from what they see as destructive foreign influences. A druid might, for example, consider themselves a guardian of the material plane, a gatekeeper against incursions from other planes. It's not that the elemental plane of fire is unnatural, it's that all those fire elementals pouring through the burning portal are an invasive species @#$%ing up the balance of things necessary for the ideal cultivation of a unique biome (the material plane). Such a druid might be as likely to hunt down celestials who seek to interfere too much in human affairs as they would demons seeking to turn the world into a province of hell. They might likewise oppose humans disrupting the realms of Outsiders, too.

A druid with the Aberration Wild Shape feat from Lords of Madness might see things much as the feat itself says:

Most druids detest aberrations and think of them as outside nature, but some view them simply as examples of nature from an extreme and alien world.

An aberrant druid might believe that humanity and "lightborn life" are the invasive species, who have defiled the natural order of things. Or they might go so far as to claim that the collection of planes most are familiar with are but a small, unsightly blemish upon the vast, eldritch Cosmos, and that there is far more to nature than mankind has yet grasped.


So there is room here for multiple set ups.

*snip* Yep! All of these are fun ideas.

[Sanctaphrax]

Something I've been wondering about this whole project...how do all these unusual and interesting philosophical stances interact with the alignment system?

You gave the Deep Ones Evil and Vile Darkness in their domain list, but the backstory doesn't make them sound all that bad. Sure, they're weird, and they've got horrible creatures like Illithids and Aboleths among them, but are they actually evil as a group? And if they are, what makes them so?

Are you going with an Exalted-esque approach where the ruling gods get to define the "objective" morals of the setting according to their own subjective perspective?

[LudicSavant]

Something I've been wondering about this whole project...how do all these unusual and interesting philosophical stances interact with the alignment system?

You gave the Deep Ones Evil and Vile Darkness in their domain list, but the backstory doesn't make them sound all that bad. Sure, they're weird, and they've got horrible creatures like Illithids and Aboleths among them, but are they actually evil as a group? And if they are, what makes them so?

Are you going with an Exalted-esque approach where the ruling gods get to define the "objective" morals of the setting according to their own subjective perspective?

The domain lists are not intended to label any of the deities as morally right or wrong, and a bad guy can take the Good domain (and vice versa), just as it is in Eberron. The Deep Ones get the Vile Darkness domain not because of morality, but because the abilities granted by said domain suit them. It grants their clerics blind-fight, darkvision, various abilities involving magical darkness and tentacles, Wall of Force and so forth. Well-suited for those who live and thrive in the depths.

As for alignment, I made a fairly long post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19968714&postcount=9) about it somewhere in the Hextor thread, listing a variety of options for how alignment could be handled in your games, all of which would be compatible with the pantheon writeups. One of those options was basically the Exalted-esque approach you mentioned, in which alignments are determined by the Twin Kings, who are far from paragons of virtue.

Under this approach, "Good" is that which the Twin Kings collectively approve of, "Evil" is that which they disdain, and "Chaos" and "Law" reflect how much your temperament resembles that of Corellon or Moradin, respectively.

This is a popular theory amongst theologians of the Larethian pantheon. It may or may not actually be right, however.

[Sanctaphrax]

This post, right? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19968714&postcount=9)

Looks good to me.

You left out my favourite way of replacing alignment, though. Namely, having the various anti-evil abilities become anti-people-my-god-dislikes abilities. Detect Evil becomes "get my god's opinion on this guy", and so on. So a Paladin of Nerull can Smite Evil against people who inflict pain or disrespect death, but not against normal killers or zombies.

[LudicSavant]

This post, right? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19968714&postcount=9) Yep, that's the one! I edited the link into the last post (as well as hopefully clarified a few other tidbits, such as why the Deep Ones get the Vile Darkness domain).

[LudicSavant]

In order to provide "proof of life" to the relevant authorities, Ludic's kidnappers have forwarded the following writeup covering one of the specific Deep Ones.

Sekolah, The Great Shark
https://i.pinimg.com/564x/fe/fb/a8/fefba813de8ee2899572d0e4ca39f8b3.jpg

Knowledge (Religion) DC 10:
Sekolah is the god of sharks, a great devourer and great creator, exalted as one of the greatest of the Deep Ones, especially in many Sahuagin cultures. The Great Shark is credited by its worshipers as the ultimate adjudicator and incarnation of law, officiating over an endless struggle between mythic figures. These figures are the hunter, or "He Who Eats" and the hated, "It That Is Eaten." The struggle between these two figures is said to be reflected in every aspect of life.

Sekolah is the judge of who is hunter and who is hated. The feeling of hunger is Sekolah devouring your insides bit by bit; a judgment for going too long without a successful hunt. This sentence is carried out until one changes their ways or finds death. The inevitability of this fate is proof of Sekolah's impartiality, for hunger knows not race, creed, or status. All who would live, must eat.

Knowledge (Religion) DC 15:
In the beginning, there was blood. The entire sea was made of it, and throughout it all things engaged in an eternal feeding frenzy. It was a perfect existence, where all could eat their fill constantly. But over time, some beings near the surface began to hear strange whispers in the crashing waves, for it was the airy breath of the dry gods that caused these waves to form.

The most foolish among them listened to the lies these whispers told them: "You need not eat forever. First, you must ensure that you are never eaten, for it is death." Hearing this, these fish became craven, and tried to flee the very paradise that sustained them. Seeing them, others were confused, and over time more and more followed their example. Those who still ate were now forced to sometimes stop and chase after new prey. The seas of blood thinned as feeding frenzies became rarer. The dry gods sought to encourage this, sending streams of fresh water from the land and sky in order to dilute the world even further. All this, Sekolah smelled, and his hatred for those who had abandoned his paradise was great and terrible.

Those who had fled first, dolphins and whales, he punished with a terrible curse: to choke on water forevermore, forcing them to beg their dry gods for breaths of air instead. The whales sang in mourning, knowing that they were condemned to always return to the barren surface, living in fear of the waves that would always seek to strand them upon the beaches, where the dry gods would reward them only with death.

Knowledge (Religion) DC 20:
Ruin, at its core, seeks to break the universe down into smaller bits. To let energy escape via entropy, until all is spread out and uniform. But Sekolah opposes this force. It gobbles up the uniform void, and thus becomes something not uniform. In this way, eating is creative, and indeed all things are created in this fashion. And so it is that Sekolah is the creative force of law and order, opposing the destructive force of chaos and entropy.

Prey is tempted by entropy. They waste energy trying not to be eaten, rather than eating. This is represented not only in escaping prey, but also in the likes of concealed knowledge, lost opportunities, or stagnant wealth. Possessed of such deluded selfishness, what else could they be named but the hated?

By contrast, the hunter is creative, allowing all things to grow by consuming the old to give rise to the new. The hunter and the hated eternally oppose each other, and sharks are believed to be judges in this conflict. This belief may have arisen from the use of sharks as bloodhounds by sahuagin, and the fact that these bloodhounds would often attack whichever side was bloodied first in a hunt... even if it was its own handler. In this way the holy animals passed judgment.

The struggle between hunter and hated goes beyond food. In all things there is hunter and hated. The hunter seeks to consume and grow, be it in experience, knowledge, skill, strength, or anything else you are called to hunt. The hated simply tries to survive, to persist as things are. All of us have aspects of hunter and hated, but we should hate these complacent, cowardly parts of ourselves.

Sekolah does not discriminate by method. For example, a person who works for a paycheck and then pays a trapper in order to procure a meal has still successfully hunted. So has a tree that has overshadowed its competitors to secure sunlight. Or a merchant who has simply manipulated others into giving him what they need. Such guile is the mark of many a fine hunter in nature. All methods of hunting are valid... save of course those that fail to procure the meal. It is as simple and natural and uncompromising as that.

Sekolans praise dining as the highest form of pleasure, and Sekolan visions of heaven commonly emphasize feasting. However, the spirit of feasting can extend to all things, not just food, and many Sekolan celebrations play up alternative kinds of feasts, exalting in the consumption of knowledge, entertainment, opportunities, and indeed all things. However, Sekolan societies tend to have little pity for the have-nots. After all, their hunger is the punishment of a perfectly impartial arbiter. They are reduced to mere skin and bones, a fitting fate for those who have failed to hunt.

Knowledge (Religion) DC 25:
"Sekolah" is a word in an old Sahuagin language roughly meaning "The Apex Predator." If something was ever able to eat Sekolah, it would simply be Sekolah, and take on the responsibilities of the position.

[aimlessPolymath]

The legend returns!

Loved your Olidammara, and I like this guy too.

I had a thought for an organization for Hextor- a military academy for misbehaving children. It seems as though Hextor's principles of order through force also apply to corporal punishment.

[Eldan]

Hextor is probably into the idea of military discipline as a punishment in a big way, yeah. Penal battalions, too.

[LudicSavant]

Penal battalions and military schools are both right up Hextor's alley. The Quartermasters are an example of an organization known for pressing miscreants into national service. After all, thieves are good for acquisitions.

Also, shark paladins. Sharkadins? Here you go.

Code of Conduct: Paladins of Sekolah
https://i.imgur.com/YXIMSZW.jpg
"Confront them with annihilation, and they will then survive; plunge them into a deadly situation, and they will then live. When people fall into danger, they are then able to strive for victory."
- Sun Tzu, discussing the merits of intentionally getting your own soldiers cornered in "The Art of War"

This code of conduct applies to those who would call themselves paladins of the faith, not just any follower of Sekolah. It is perhaps worth noting that any mention of how to treat a hunt or a meal applies to how to treat anything, for the struggle between hunter and hated is reflected in all things.

- Paladins of Sekolah are expected to act as impartial judges who can be trusted to resolve affairs with merciless fairness. Sekolah's judgments transcend the boundaries of race, creed, status, tribe, or even method. A true sahuagin will devour even its own kin, if it is just. Do not let worldly loyalties or petty biases cloud your righteous judgment.

- Use the whole animal. When you consume a thing, see that it is consumed in its entirety. You need not do so alone, and you may share the fruits of your hunt or leave leftovers for scavengers and the like, but do not waste. To be wasteful is to allow prey to escape even in death.

- Partake until you are sated. Do not settle for a half-empty stomach, unless doing so is an investment in an even greater meal in the future. Strive always to grow, for it is by eating that base chaos is ordered into higher forms.

- Wounds on the back are a warrior's shame. Do not flee. Kill or be killed. To show your back is the mark of the hated... save when it is merely the ruse of the hunter, baiting a trap.

- Emulate always the way of the hunter, and scorn the way of the hated. Do not concern yourself overmuch with petty self-preservation, for the success of the sea is greater than any individual fish. Undeath is especially offensive. Instead, focus your hunter's eyes solely on the best way to achieve your goals, rather than fear the consequences of failure.

[lukenukeas]

Sharkadins! Very interesting concept! And very in-tone with the Conquest archetype, too. It could be the best mold for such oath.

The question is what do they think about those who eat the prey but didn't hunt them themselves. As in hiring a hunter to catch the boar, then a chef to cook it and a tanner to make a nice rug out of it. Then enjoy everything without having to raise a finger.

[LudicSavant]

Sharkadins! Very interesting concept! And very in-tone with the Conquest archetype, too. It could be the best mold for such oath.

The question is what do they think about those who eat the prey but didn't hunt them themselves. As in hiring a hunter to catch the boar, then a chef to cook it and a tanner to make a nice rug out of it. Then enjoy everything without having to raise a finger.

Sekolah does not discriminate by method. For example, a person who works for a paycheck and then pays a trapper in order to procure a meal has still successfully hunted. So has a tree that has overshadowed its competitors to secure sunlight. Or a merchant who has simply manipulated others into giving him what they need. Such guile is the mark of many a fine hunter in nature. All methods of hunting are valid... save of course those that fail to procure the meal. It is as simple and natural and uncompromising as that.

[Pronounceable]

I wish I could come up with stuff this cool.

[Bluepaw]

LudicSavant, as a PhD candidate in religious studies, let me offer my quasi-professional opinion that this is very, very well done indeed. Kudos.

[Dagda Mor]

LudicSavant, as a PhD candidate in religious studies, let me offer my quasi-professional opinion that this is very, very well done indeed. Kudos.

What stuff about his work do you appreciate as a result of said religious studies? (I assume it's stuff most fictional religions don't do as well?)

[Bluepaw]

What stuff about his work do you appreciate as a result of said religious studies? (I assume it's stuff most fictional religions don't do as well?)

Well, I think a big part of it is the consistency and internal logic of the religion such that it has the feel of a tradition that could help people organize their world, not just some bonkers thing that mad cultists do because... cultists. Someone earlier in the thread called it moral ambiguity, which I think I would read instead as relative morality: from the perspective of those whose world this is, it's logical and good to devote one's life to these principles and the edification or other benefits that they receive from doing so are as things should be.

I also really like the material texture of the religion. I've seen plenty of fantasy religions that are either, like, totally about beliefs and myths such that you wouldn't know affect people's lives in any way other than what they happen to think in their private minds (common misconception about real world religions too, though let's snip that little thought off right there), or the materiality is too obvious and one-dimensional. Oh, it's a god of fire and your whole thing is... burning stuff? Good.

Here, instead, we've got a rich materiality that I can imagine shaping both the lives of adherents and becoming a playable plot point for those who are coming into contact with them. For instance, the whole thing with salt: there's both a lovely theology around salt as both corrupt and necessary (this is totally recognizable as a conundrum that theologians might actually reckon with), and what I might think of as a sacramental culture -- salting food (perhaps as a ritual act like a blessing before a meal rather than as a mere flavor enhancer), using salt water vs. fresh water as holy water, salt blocks as building material for an altar or a salt orb atop a rod or crozier, summoned sodium elementals in place of celestials, and on and on. It's also an opportunity to have the whole salted-vs-unsalted binary become an interreligious fault line, like those who are opposed to the Deep Ones refuse to salt their food or send it back at a tavern... just spitballing here, but this is what I mean by a really well done religion that's just bursting with possibilities for rarified theology and mundane texture alike.

[Requilac]

Wow, I have got to admit, this is really awesome. I frequently include elements of Lovecraftian horror in my D&D adventures, so this is a really interesting experiment. The ideas you have created will be shamelessly stolen and used by me with (kind-of-proper) citations of course.

One thing has been crossing my mind as I am reading this though is that I am curious as to whether all the creatures from the deep are aberrations. So far the introduction you presented makes everyone seem pretty connected to aberrations, but you heavily mention sahuagin in Sekolah's profile, which implies that perhaps more is in the works here. Are all of the Deep Ones aberrations, or are some of them primordial elementals, fey lords/ladies, fiends, giant oozes and/or the like?

Also, Ludic Savant, you play D&D 5e right? Do you know whether worshipping a deep one would grant someone cleric or warlock powers? The way you list the domains implies clerics, but following 5e class lore, it makes much more sense for a priest of Sekolah to be a Great Old One warlock over a War Cleric. At least, in my opinion.

[Eldan]

Wow, I have got to admit, this is really awesome. I frequently include elements of Lovecraftian horror in my D&D adventures, so this is a really interesting experiment. The ideas you have created will be shamelessly stolen and used by me with (kind-of-proper) citations of course.

One thing has been crossing my mind as I am reading this though is that I am curious as to whether all the creatures from the deep are aberrations. So far the introduction you presented makes everyone seem pretty connected to aberrations, but you heavily mention sahuagin in Sekolah's profile, which implies that perhaps more is in the works here. Are all of the Deep Ones aberrations, or are some of them primordial elementals, fey lords/ladies, fiends, giant oozes and/or the like?

Also, Ludic Savant, you play D&D 5e right? Do you know whether worshipping a deep one would grant someone cleric or warlock powers? The way you list the domains implies clerics, but following 5e class lore, it makes much more sense for a priest of Sekolah to be a Great Old One warlock over a War Cleric. At least, in my opinion.

I honestly think that it's best to not think of them too much as creature types. You know a Deep One when you see one, it doesnt' really matter if he's an aberration type or an ooze type or a salt elemental, does it?

[LudicSavant]

LudicSavant, as a PhD candidate in religious studies, let me offer my quasi-professional opinion that this is very, very well done indeed. Kudos.


Well, I think a big part of it is the consistency and internal logic of the religion such that it has the feel of a tradition that could help people organize their world, not just some bonkers thing that mad cultists do because... cultists. Someone earlier in the thread called it moral ambiguity, which I think I would read instead as relative morality: from the perspective of those whose world this is, it's logical and good to devote one's life to these principles and the edification or other benefits that they receive from doing so are as things should be.

I also really like the material texture of the religion. I've seen plenty of fantasy religions that are either, like, totally about beliefs and myths such that you wouldn't know affect people's lives in any way other than what they happen to think in their private minds (common misconception about real world religions too, though let's snip that little thought off right there), or the materiality is too obvious and one-dimensional. Oh, it's a god of fire and your whole thing is... burning stuff? Good.

Here, instead, we've got a rich materiality that I can imagine shaping both the lives of adherents and becoming a playable plot point for those who are coming into contact with them. For instance, the whole thing with salt: there's both a lovely theology around salt as both corrupt and necessary (this is totally recognizable as a conundrum that theologians might actually reckon with), and what I might think of as a sacramental culture -- salting food (perhaps as a ritual act like a blessing before a meal rather than as a mere flavor enhancer), using salt water vs. fresh water as holy water, salt blocks as building material for an altar or a salt orb atop a rod or crozier, summoned sodium elementals in place of celestials, and on and on. It's also an opportunity to have the whole salted-vs-unsalted binary become an interreligious fault line, like those who are opposed to the Deep Ones refuse to salt their food or send it back at a tavern... just spitballing here, but this is what I mean by a really well done religion that's just bursting with possibilities for rarified theology and mundane texture alike.

Thank you, that is pretty much exactly what I was going for.


Also, Ludic Savant, you play D&D 5e right? Do you know whether worshipping a deep one would grant someone cleric or warlock powers? The way you list the domains implies clerics, but following 5e class lore, it makes much more sense for a priest of Sekolah to be a Great Old One warlock over a War Cleric. At least, in my opinion.

Just like the Raven Queen or Eberron's Undying Court get both Clerics and Warlocks in 5e, I expect a similar answer would be appropriate for the Deep Ones. There is more than one way to serve, and more than one route to power.

In 5th edition, the basic fluff concept for a Cleric and a Warlock are essentially similar. One serves a powerful magical being or force and gets power for it. The other serves a powerful magical being or force and gets power for it. The sources of either could be called a god or not depending on your outlook (individual demons, celestials, old ones, dragons, etc have all been called gods at some point in D&D lore. Likewise, there have been a number of cases in D&D canon where the godhood of beings granting cleric spells has been questioned or denied... or where it's uncertain if the gods even exist, such as in Eberron). If one wanted to split hairs, one could argue that clerics tend to work with "bigger fish" than warlocks, and less directly... but this isn't necessarily true (such as in the case of GOOlocks or Hexblades). For instance, Durkon's relationship with Thor is arguably more direct than the "the power you draw is a rounding error, the being doesn't even notice humanity exists" type relationship described for some Old Ones.

If you ask me, the real primary conceptual disconnect between Warlocks and Clerics (besides mechanics, of course) is that some people had gotten it into their mind that clerics couldn't be edgy, but still wanted edgy clerics, so they made edgy clerics a whole new class. But since that flavor niche actually already existed, we just get two versions of things like devotees of the Raven Queen or the Undying Court or the Lovecraftian pantheon.

It's not the first time the Cleric concept has had another class claim a niche it conceptually already covered, either. Paladins were basically just martial clerics... but nothing was stopping you from building a martial cleric without the Paladin class. They've tried to differentiate them a bit more in 5e by saying that they get their power from an oath rather than a god, but some clerics getting their powers from oaths rather than gods was already a thing in D&D. So... yeah. Want to build a martial servant of the divine in 3.5e? You can use a Paladin or a Cleric and neither choice is wrong. Want to build a servant of the Undying Court in 5e? You can use a Warlock or a Cleric and neither of those choices are wrong.

I should also note that this is not unique to the Cleric. For example, a Beguiler, Warmage, and Dread Necromancer are all basically functions of the Wizard, but also perfectly valid classes in their own right. And there's nothing wrong with that. There's no game design rule that says something like "a class must have no flavor overlap with another class." On the contrary, I'd say that it's a good thing to have more mechanical options with which to approach similar concepts, so that a person can further fine-tune their character and get exactly what they want.

[Max_Killjoy]

Well, I think a big part of it is the consistency and internal logic of the religion such that it has the feel of a tradition that could help people organize their world, not just some bonkers thing that mad cultists do because... cultists. Someone earlier in the thread called it moral ambiguity, which I think I would read instead as relative morality: from the perspective of those whose world this is, it's logical and good to devote one's life to these principles and the edification or other benefits that they receive from doing so are as things should be.

I also really like the material texture of the religion. I've seen plenty of fantasy religions that are either, like, totally about beliefs and myths such that you wouldn't know affect people's lives in any way other than what they happen to think in their private minds (common misconception about real world religions too, though let's snip that little thought off right there), or the materiality is too obvious and one-dimensional. Oh, it's a god of fire and your whole thing is... burning stuff? Good.

Here, instead, we've got a rich materiality that I can imagine shaping both the lives of adherents and becoming a playable plot point for those who are coming into contact with them. For instance, the whole thing with salt: there's both a lovely theology around salt as both corrupt and necessary (this is totally recognizable as a conundrum that theologians might actually reckon with), and what I might think of as a sacramental culture -- salting food (perhaps as a ritual act like a blessing before a meal rather than as a mere flavor enhancer), using salt water vs. fresh water as holy water, salt blocks as building material for an altar or a salt orb atop a rod or crozier, summoned sodium elementals in place of celestials, and on and on. It's also an opportunity to have the whole salted-vs-unsalted binary become an interreligious fault line, like those who are opposed to the Deep Ones refuse to salt their food or send it back at a tavern... just spitballing here, but this is what I mean by a really well done religion that's just bursting with possibilities for rarified theology and mundane texture alike.

That's the part of fictional religions I end up struggling with when I do worldbuilding, because frankly I just don't get religion... the whole thing feels entirely academic and made-up to me, even when it's based firmly in something from real history.

[Requilac]

I honestly think that it's best to not think of them too much as creature types. You know a Deep One when you see one, it doesnt' really matter if he's an aberration type or an ooze type or a salt elemental, does it?

I suppose whether that matters or not depends on the RPG you are playing. I personally play D&D 5e, where each of the types of creatures have corresponding lore to them. Knowing what a Deep One's type is would provide a lot of insight as to what it's army would consist of and what its allies would be. For example, if I knew Sekolah was an aberration, then I could fill his army's ranks with not only sahuagin but also with mind flayers, beholders and otyughs sent by [insert cthulhu ripoff here]. But if Sekolah is a fiend, it would make more sense for him to buddy up with The Firebringer of Doom and have an army which made up of demonic warbeasts. No it's not necessary to know a Deep One's type, but I would hardly say that it doesn't matter.


Thank you, that is pretty much exactly what I was going for.



Just like the Raven Queen or Eberron's Undying Court get both Clerics and Warlocks in 5e, I expect a similar answer would be appropriate for the Deep Ones. There is more than one way to serve, and more than one route to power.

In 5th edition, the basic fluff concept for a Cleric and a Warlock are essentially similar. One serves a powerful magical being or force and gets power for it. The other serves a powerful magical being or force and gets power for it. The sources of either could be called a god or not depending on your outlook (individual demons, celestials, old ones, dragons, etc have all been called gods at some point in D&D lore. Likewise, there have been a number of cases in D&D canon where the godhood of beings granting cleric spells has been questioned or denied... or where it's uncertain if the gods even exist, such as in Eberron). If one wanted to split hairs, one could argue that clerics tend to work with "bigger fish" than warlocks, and less directly... but this isn't necessarily true (such as in the case of GOOlocks or Hexblades). For instance, Durkon's relationship with Thor is arguably more direct than the "the power you draw is a rounding error, the being doesn't even notice humanity exists" type relationship described for some Old Ones.

If you ask me, the real primary conceptual disconnect between Warlocks and Clerics (besides mechanics, of course) is that some people had gotten it into their mind that clerics couldn't be edgy, but still wanted edgy clerics, so they made edgy clerics a whole new class. But since that flavor niche actually already existed, we just get two versions of things like devotees of the Raven Queen or the Undying Court or the Lovecraftian pantheon.

It's not the first time the Cleric concept has had another class claim a niche it conceptually already covered, either. Paladins were basically just martial clerics... but nothing was stopping you from building a martial cleric without the Paladin class. They've tried to differentiate them a bit more in 5e by saying that they get their power from an oath rather than a god, but some clerics getting their powers from oaths rather than gods was already a thing in D&D. So... yeah. Want to build a martial servant of the divine in 3.5e? You can use a Paladin or a Cleric and neither choice is wrong. Want to build a servant of the Undying Court in 5e? You can use a Warlock or a Cleric and neither of those choices are wrong.

I should also note that this is not unique to the Cleric. For example, a Beguiler, Warmage, and Dread Necromancer are all basically functions of the Wizard, but also perfectly valid classes in their own right. And there's nothing wrong with that. There's no game design rule that says something like "a class must have no flavor overlap with another class." On the contrary, I'd say that it's a good thing to have more mechanical options with which to approach similar concepts, so that a person can further fine-tune their character and get exactly what they want.

I would have to agree with you for the most part, clerics and warlocks are very conceptually similar. The main difference I don't believe though is because "clerics can't be edgy" so much as that they occupy very different mechanical niches. A cleric heals and supports their party while a warlock blasts or slashes directly. That being said, these Deep Ones seem much more arcane than divine in origin so I would think a Deep One worshiper would be more likely to be a warlock due to mechanical reasons. This was my original thoughts anyway but I just wanted your over-all opinion in this matter. Thank you for your time.

[Fire Tarrasque]

I believe the big difference between Cleric and Warlock is that the Warlock's powers can't be taken back. The patron of a Warlock does not give them power after power, but instead supplies a spark that lights the fire that is the Warlock, and that cannot be put out. Clerics on the other hand, are granted power purely by their deity. That power can be revoked at any time, but you know, it's a deity, it doesn't care that much.

[Eldan]

Really? I almost see it the other way round. I've heard of lots of clerics falling for offending their god's creed, but never a warlock.

[Eldan]

I suppose whether that matters or not depends on the RPG you are playing. I personally play D&D 5e, where each of the types of creatures have corresponding lore to them. Knowing what a Deep One's type is would provide a lot of insight as to what it's army would consist of and what its allies would be. For example, if I knew Sekolah was an aberration, then I could fill his army's ranks with not only sahuagin but also with mind flayers, beholders and otyughs sent by [insert cthulhu ripoff here]. But if Sekolah is a fiend, it would make more sense for him to buddy up with The Firebringer of Doom and have an army which made up of demonic warbeasts. No it's not necessary to know a Deep One's type, but I would hardly say that it doesn't matter.

Huh. I play 3.5, and I absolutely wouldn't rule it that way. There's tons of cases where more than one creature type serves a god. Say, Juiblex, Demon Lord of Oozes absolutely has Oozes and Demons serving him. And probably a few aberrations. Or Tharizdun, the Elemental Eye, is served by all manner of fiends, elementals, aberrations and so on.

[LudicSavant]

Brainstorming sailor superstitions. Would love to hear some suggestions from the Playground!

https://i.pinimg.com/564x/c8/0a/1e/c80a1e7d4088f8777f159b3a9c2429df.jpg
Sailors are known for their superstitions, and who can blame them? They sail across the face of the Abyss itself, over shadows of vast psionic minds. On land, one honors the gods, but at sea, the Deep Ones hold sway, and one must observe their custom if one would see their next port of call.

Sailor superstitions:
- Watch your mouth! Various words are bad luck... especially speaking of anything to do with land, such as churches, pigs, cats, and rabbits. Do not remind the Deep Ones of their old grudges.
- Sacrificial souvenirs. It is by the tolerance of the Deep Ones that they allow one to cross their Abyss, and one must thank them properly for the experience of traveling to distant lands if they wish to continue to be tolerated. An object of sentimental value from your last port of call must be thrown overboard, a gift that acknowledges that it is the Deep Ones who allowed you to travel there at all. PCs might be expected to offer up a favored piece of loot or other prizes. If they are unwilling, sailors might throw their possessions (or even them) overboard. Sometimes, these offerings are collected by sea-dwelling races, who allow passage through their territory.
- Dreams rise from the deep, and can be taken very seriously at sea. One man's night terrors might see an otherwise normal-seeming crew turn to dark rituals in fear of imagined omens.
- In order to encourage fish to be caught, some fishermen begin their fishing session by throwing one of the crew members overboard and then hauling him back on. (Based on a practice by Scottish fishermen, actually)

[Eldan]

A real one I know is that some sailors used to tattoo pigs or chickens on their bodies, because chickens and pigs often survived shipwrecks., (Maybe because they were in wooden crates or boxes).
Perhaps in this mythology, having a land animal on your body would be seen as a talisman against hostile sea life?

Edit: of course, that's the exact opposite of yours.

A sailor at sea for the first time must take on more of the sea. First, they cut their hand and let their blood drip in the water. Three drops. Then, they must drink a cup of sea water. Vomiting is a terrible omen.

I feel like stealing from Sunless Sea here:
https://sunlesssea.gamepedia.com/Random_Event#Zee

Anything made of stone on board is bad luck and must be thrown overboard if discovered.

[Requilac]

Huh. I play 3.5, and I absolutely wouldn't rule it that way. There's tons of cases where more than one creature type serves a god. Say, Juiblex, Demon Lord of Oozes absolutely has Oozes and Demons serving him. And probably a few aberrations. Or Tharizdun, the Elemental Eye, is served by all manner of fiends, elementals, aberrations and so on.

In 5e there are cases where more than one creature type serves a god too, but there are also a lot of rivalries between creatures which needs to be included. The devils and the demons are at war with each-other (blood war), the aberrations have some sort of unexplained rivalry with the demons (as seen in OotA), celestials hate basically everyone (they fight everything "evil", which a lot of things are), modrons seem to have a rivalry with certain aberrations (especially slaadi), dragons and giants once had a massive war with still ongoing tension (This was in Volo's I think), the fey and the demons fight on multiple occasions (in OotA, but it might just be a coincidence), etc. That doesn't mean opposing creatures couldn't work together, but you would have to explain why they would be putting aside those rivalries.


Brainstorming sailor superstitions. Would love to hear some suggestions from the Playground!

https://i.pinimg.com/564x/c8/0a/1e/c80a1e7d4088f8777f159b3a9c2429df.jpg
Sailors are known for their superstitions, and who can blame them? They sail across the face of the Abyss itself, over shadows of vast psionic minds. On land, one honors the gods, but at sea, the Deep Ones hold sway, and one must observe their custom if one would see their next port of call.

Sailor superstitions:
- Watch your mouth! Various words are bad luck... especially speaking of anything to do with land, such as churches, pigs, cats, and rabbits. Do not remind the Deep Ones of their old grudges.
- Sacrificial souvenirs. It is by the tolerance of the Deep Ones that they allow one to cross their Abyss, and one must thank them properly for the experience of traveling to distant lands if they wish to continue to be tolerated. An object of sentimental value from your last port of call must be thrown overboard, a gift that acknowledges that it is the Deep Ones who allowed you to travel there at all. PCs might be expected to offer up a favored piece of loot or other prizes. If they are unwilling, sailors might throw their possessions (or even them) overboard. Sometimes, these offerings are collected by sea-dwelling races, who allow passage through their territory.
- Dreams rise from the deep, and can be taken very seriously at sea. One man's night terrors might see an otherwise normal-seeming crew turn to dark rituals in fear of imagined omens.
- In order to encourage fish to be caught, some fishermen begin their fishing session by throwing one of the crew members overboard and then hauling him back on. (Based on a practice by Scottish fishermen, actually)

I think I may have a couple you could think of...

- In certain mythological beliefs, vultures are said to carry the souls of those that they consume inside of them. When you look in their eyes, you can see the souls of the dead. I would imagine the vultures would eat some of the servants of the Deep Ones who got to close to the shore. so perhaps you could say that anyone who looks into the eyes of a vulture is shunned from society because they have seen secrets they weren't supposed to no.

- Do not pray to the dry gods on the open ocean, the Deep Ones may hear you and smite you for supporting their enemies!

- The sailors have probably discovered several items or "rituals" which they believe to ward off the spirits of the deep. They may hang petrified garlic on the mastheads, carve tribal "runes" on the sides of their ships, or pouring certain wines on the boards of the ship before setting off. These of course don't work, but the sailors will believe they do

- Dolphins and whales are hated by the Deep One, Sekolah, (as explained in the DC15 religion check section for Sekolah), so if you kill them and keep them as prominent trophies Sekolah may reward the hunter.

- Be reluctant to trust any ship which you see come through a fog at night, it could be a ghost ship. Sometimes the Deep Ones will punish whole ships of people with the curse of undeath, and by interacting with the ghost ships they may punish you too!

- Always be on the look out for people who don't scream quite right, because they could be deep scions!

[Eldan]

In 5e there are cases where more than one creature type serves a god too, but there are also a lot of rivalries between creatures which needs to be included. The devils and the demons are at war with each-other (blood war), the aberrations have some sort of unexplained rivalry with the demons (as seen in OotA), celestials hate basically everyone (they fight everything "evil", which a lot of things are), modrons seem to have a rivalry with certain aberrations (especially slaadi), dragons and giants once had a massive war with still ongoing tension (This was in Volo's I think), the fey and the demons fight on multiple occasions (in OotA, but it might just be a coincidence), etc. That doesn't mean opposing creatures couldn't work together, but you would have to explain why they would be putting aside those rivalries.

Oh, sure, all those conflicts go back to at least AD&D and were in third edition too, but they rarely affect all creatures of one type. They are usually restricted to a few kinds of creature, except for demons and devils. There's even a few good aberrations here and there who live with the celestials and fight other aberrations. The celestials sure aren't united (eladrin help the demons in the blood war, archons the devils and angels are usually inscrutable and do whatever their god commands). And the various Aberration nations (heh) sure as hell can't stand each other. Beholders fight everyone and each other, unless the Great Mother commands otherwise, Illsensine makes sure most Illithids try to conquer the world for him and bring their empire back, the Aboleth hate and fear the mindflayers for being from outside the timeline...

[Requilac]

Oh, sure, all those conflicts go back to at least AD&D and were in third edition too, but they rarely affect all creatures of one type. They are usually restricted to a few kinds of creature, except for demons and devils. There's even a few good aberrations here and there who live with the celestials and fight other aberrations. The celestials sure aren't united (eladrin help the demons in the blood war, archons the devils and angels are usually inscrutable and do whatever their god commands). And the various Aberration nations (heh) sure as hell can't stand each other. Beholders fight everyone and each other, unless the Great Mother commands otherwise, Illsensine makes sure most Illithids try to conquer the world for him and bring their empire back, the Aboleth hate and fear the mindflayers for being from outside the timeline...

I agree with you on all of this, so I am beginning to think that I may be a little sidetracked. Long story short; I am not creative, I can't think up an evil army easily which isn't extremely bland. By knowing the Deep Ones type I can form that army better. It's not necessary at all, but I think that knowing its type will help me determine whom it would associate with and thusly do some of the creative thinking for me.

[Sanctaphrax]

Brainstorming sailor superstitions. Would love to hear some suggestions from the Playground!

Every sailor has two names. One for the land, one for the sea. The land-name worships the gods of the land, the sea-name worships or at least respects the Deep Ones. It's customary to alter your appearance when switching between names, generally by adjusting your hair and changing your shirt.

Sailors are widely considered sinister, and in some areas they're a hereditary under-caste that's believed to have extra-salty blood.

If you catch a squid or octopus while fishing, throw it back. Absolutely do not eat it.

Try to avoid throwing anything unsavory into the ocean. When you can't avoid doing so, apologise profusely and then move. Legend has it that peeing over the side attracts krakens.

When making a new ship, rub some blood from a land animal into the wood so that Corellon's power will follow you into the domain of the Deep Ones.

[Dagda Mor]

I submit Hammerhead from Guilded Age (http://guildedage.net/comic/ask-an-adventurer-gill-ded-age/) as a model Sekolath devotee.

[aimlessPolymath]

In dangerous waters, if a man falls overboard, do not attempt to rescue him or let him come aboard until you have traveled for a day. If he lives, avoid speaking to him or of him until land is reached.

[LudicSavant]

I submit Hammerhead from Guilded Age (http://guildedage.net/comic/ask-an-adventurer-gill-ded-age/) as a model Sekolath devotee.

When I read this, I hadn't read any of Guilded Age, so I immediately did an image search for Hammerhead from Guilded Age. And came up with this:


http://guildedage.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/gach35pg2-copy.jpg
_
http://guildedage.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Guilded-Age-Interlude-pg-6-color-reduced-copy.jpg
_
http://guildedage.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/gach28pg20-copy.jpg



To which I can only say that he does indeed seem like a very interesting example of a devotee of Sekolah! And that I have started reading Guilded Age. :smallsmile:

Edit: And now that I've read some of it, I can say that the dwarf Gravedust is a model member for the Knights of the Merciful Scythe. So that's cool too.


Every sailor has two names. One for the land, one for the sea. The land-name worships the gods of the land, the sea-name worships or at least respects the Deep Ones. It's customary to alter your appearance when switching between names, generally by adjusting your hair and changing your shirt.

Sailors are widely considered sinister, and in some areas they're a hereditary under-caste that's believed to have extra-salty blood.

If you catch a squid or octopus while fishing, throw it back. Absolutely do not eat it.

Try to avoid throwing anything unsavory into the ocean. When you can't avoid doing so, apologise profusely and then move. Legend has it that peeing over the side attracts krakens.

When making a new ship, rub some blood from a land animal into the wood so that Corellon's power will follow you into the domain of the Deep Ones.


In dangerous waters, if a man falls overboard, do not attempt to rescue him or let him come aboard until you have traveled for a day. If he lives, avoid speaking to him or of him until land is reached.


A real one I know is that some sailors used to tattoo pigs or chickens on their bodies, because chickens and pigs often survived shipwrecks., (Maybe because they were in wooden crates or boxes).
Perhaps in this mythology, having a land animal on your body would be seen as a talisman against hostile sea life?

Edit: of course, that's the exact opposite of yours.

A sailor at sea for the first time must take on more of the sea. First, they cut their hand and let their blood drip in the water. Three drops. Then, they must drink a cup of sea water. Vomiting is a terrible omen.

I feel like stealing from Sunless Sea here:
https://sunlesssea.gamepedia.com/Random_Event#Zee

Anything made of stone on board is bad luck and must be thrown overboard if discovered.

These are pretty cool. Thanks to everyone who made suggestions so far!

[Mith]

I am happy to see you starting this project back up!

An idea for sailor culture: There are two main sailor perspectives those that turn to the Deep Ones, and those that turn to Gruumsh. (Of course I turn everything back to Old One Eye. He's my favourite.)


Gruumsh takes on an aspect of Stormbringer like Poseidon, and the Gruumshar sailors see storms as a test of strength. Gruumsh cannot spare a soul from a shipwreck unless he dooms Creation. It is a test of the crew's own power to keep themselves afloat.

There are two main blessings of Gruumsh when at sea: The Watchful Eye of a hurricane, or a lull in the storm, which occurs when Gruumsh is able to take a rest, and the faithful, as fellow warriors, also rest. The other is St. Elmo's Fire. Perhaps the lore has a Cleric of Gruumsh that takes on a story equivalent to St Elmos or Brendan the Navigator and has the phenomenon named after them.

Where the sailors that seek to appease the Deep Ones are superstitious, the Gruumshar sailors are seen as the truly insane one. They see dolphins and whales as good luck, and invented calamari (an extension of some Gruumshar traditions of eating your enemies if that is a part of the worldbuilding). Where Deep One aligned sailors see hunger as the final judge, Gruumshar see the Storm as the judge of your preparedness, skill, resourcefulness.... and whether Gruumsh's wife will put a good word in for you. :P

[NekoMancer657]

I'd like to see a more moral relative take on Gruumash, but back to the Deep Ones...

How do the less...aquatic aberrations fit in? The Deep Ones would seem like a logical choice for Beholder worship, if the later could live in the Abyss. Heck, subverting/destroying the 'false' societies of the Lack could be a divine mission, thus explaining some of their behavior.

[Fire Tarrasque]

The Deep Ones would seem like a logical choice for Beholder worship,

Ha.
Beholders don't worship anything. Their belief is that "I am the master race, period." That's the nice thing about Beholders, uou don't really have to look at anything. They're simple, yet effective.
Otherwise, yeah your question still applies.

[LudicSavant]

How do the less...aquatic aberrations fit in?

Many non-aquatic Aberrations thrive in the deep and sunless realm of the underdark. It is said that long ago their pelagic ancestors emerged from the vast, dark seas of those cyclopean caverns.

As for beholders specifically, they actually played a major role in my last campaign. Perhaps something to cover in a later post.

[Eldan]

Fun fact: the Elder Things of Antarctica in Lovecraft went from Space to the Sea, to Land, to underground in that order. So that fits.

[LudicSavant]

Edited the Sekolah (www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19916829&postcount=1) entry a bit. Mostly just adding in an answer to a question someone asked here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23115242&postcount=60).

Also worth noting: Like all of the deities I've written for this pantheon, Sekolah isn't just a "racial" deity and has found traction amongst many factions, from lizardfolk hunter-gatherers stalking the swamps, to human privateers who raise the banner of the smiling shark as they chase down the Hated vessels of foreign powers, to conspiring gnomish merchant lords looking to corner the market.

[Stadge]

Some prospective sailor superstitions/customs for you. Of course not all or even any have to actually work:


Tying in with your idea of sacrifices, you could include things like this, described in Robert Macfarlane's 'The Old Ways':

Emphasis mine- I like the idea of seeking out particular 'talismans' for a long voayge, though I get from a player's POV losing their awesome sword would probably hurt more...
'It's a kist,' Steve said cheerily, 'a chest. Its main body is dolerite. I cored out the centre of the dolerite band put a big glass phial in the hole. The phial contains seawater I gathered during a big storm twenty-five years ago. I used bronze wire to bind the phial in place, and then I capped the sides of the dolerite with some old ivory.' The surface of the kist was cool and smooth, even where the ivory met the dolerite.

It was, he explained, a votive offering: a storm charm. All maritime cultures have lore about objects and substances that are thrown into the seas to calm them when a craft is in danger. Ale, oil or blood are poured overboard to soothe the waves. Coins, bodies, swords, screeds of wool or gansey are yielded to sate the maelstrom. There are two kinds of offering: placatory and sacrificial. The placatory is assuaging (oil on troubled waters); the sacrificial is substitutionary - a minor loss sustained in the present (the object lost to the sea) replacing a future greater loss (the boat lost to the sea). Steve's kist was sacrificial in kind.

'I reckoned that these objects, these offerings, would have to be beautiful if they were to be offerings,' he said. 'Something it would pain you to lose to the waves.' I felt reassured to have the kist, and knew that if the seas rose I would have no hesitation in slipping it over the checkerboard side of the boat.'
Traditionally in our world its unlucky to kill an albatross, but maybe in this the fact that they fly for so long without landing is considered an affront to the Deep Ones and so sailors actively hunt them. As a reflection of the 'albatross round the neck' perhaps sailors seek out pendants made from fragments of albatross skeletons, the skulls being most highly prized, as good luck omens?
Sailors hang dream catchers (made from driftwood, kelp, fish bones and the like) above their bunks in an attempt to draw Deep One influenced dreams away from them.
Traditionally it was bad luck to pass the salt directly whilst on ship and it had to be set down first. You could just use this, but to emphasise the link with salt and salt water, maybe the salt, rather than placed on the table, is floated on wooden bowls in shallow troughs of water? It seems to be one of those awkwardly convoluted superstitions to enforce that could provide some fun.
Inspired by the real annual guga (gannet chick) hunts on Sula Sgeir- again a section from 'The Old Ways':
Maybe not sailors but more seaside community- but something similar as sacrifice could work? And the cairns of the elderly could easily translate to they themselves being left behind.
The two weeks on the sialnd itself are still dangerous; the Sabbath remains a rest day.

The first day on the Rock is spent setting up, and then the cull begins. The men are tasked with different jobs; there are catchers, killers, scorchers, scrubbers, pluckers and pilers. The cliff-men head down, roped, on ledges slippery with guano, with long nooses on poles and cudgels in hand. Reach, noose, grab, crack. The corpses are returned to the summit of Sula Sgeir, where the 'factory' has been established. the birds are plucked, singed, seared. Then tehir wingsa re chopped off, and their evacuated bodies are placed on 'the Pile' - a great altar-cairn of guga corpses....

... On a guga hunter's last visit to the Rock, before he beocmes too old to return, he builds a cairn to mark his relationship to the siland. Seen form the sea, Sula Sgeir's outline is prickly with these cairns.

.... I thought of how, once the guga-hunting party had departed from Sula Sgeir each year, the amputated wings of the dead gannets - 4,000 wings from 2,000 birds - were left lying on the summit, so that when the next big autumn storm came and the next big wind blew from the south or west, thousands of these severed wings would lift from the surfaces of the island, such that it seemed, when seen from the sea, that the rock itself were trying to lift off in flight...
Traditionally flat-footedness was seen as unlucky, this could still be true, but webbed toes are considered a lucky omen?
Not superstitions as such, but sailor tattoos are important , marking specific voyages. I'm not sure of the geography involved here but you should probably have some voyage-based tattoos, and maybe some for specific 'unusual' encounters.
From your section on Sekolah - if wounds on the back are shameful in his/its eyes- the punishment of being flogged perhaps becomes more severe, as the individuals will now be marked out to Sekolah.
Most sailors dislike having priests/clerics onboard. They understand that the sea is the domain of the Deep Ones and fear that they'll be wrathful if active servants of the gods are onboard. Not to say that a ship's captain won't carry the party's cleric of course... but it might be one step along the way to a mutiny.
Due to the chaotic nature of the Deep Ones, maybe its actually favourable to change the names of ships? I dunno, I'm spitballing a bit now...

[Eldan]

Expanding on the idea of wounds on the back, maybe the ship's mate (or oldest sailor, other person in authority) could decide where on the body a sailor would be flogged, deciding how shameful it is.

[Vessyra]

Hey, one of the deity write-up threads is still alive! This is great! I'd been read a bunch of the old threads, thinking that I couldn't add my own thoughts, then it turns out that one of the threads is still alive!

I really love the way that the evil deities have reasons to be worshipped. The closest I've come to making an evil deity have open followers in a society was a church of Hexor that not only provided defence against Sahuagin but also served a role as evil magical clerical lawyers worshiping the lord of war, tyranny and destruction.

They have a fairly high success rate. I remember thinking up a cool slogan, but I can't for the life of me remember what it was.

[LudicSavant]

The Black and White Banner:
It is a misconception that Sekolans merely look down on whales and dolphins. While it is true that their ancestors were punished for a grievous sin, Sekolah's judgments are always fair, and so long as one does not fall so far from the way of the Hunter that they are given the ultimate sentence--starvation and extinction--then there is always hope for redemption. Whales are favored prey, but there is at least one very notable exception.

The mighty orca has established itself as an apex predator, hunting even much larger whales (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hpil8EBVMLM&feature=youtu.be&t=3m40s), and as such is worshiped as a symbol of redemption. The holy orca represents the ability to rise above one's history, be it ancestry or deeds, and become something greater. Provincial levies for the great empires of the fishmen sometimes use the orca as their banner, symbolizing their loyalty to Sekolah above their ancestry.

The flags might look something like this: https://www.reddit.com/r/vexillology/comments/86s4uu/a_flag_for_the_orca_dictatorship/

[Max_Killjoy]

The Black and White Banner:
It is a misconception that Sekolans merely look down on whales and dolphins. While it is true that their ancestors were punished for a grievous sin, Sekolah's judgments are always fair, and so long as one does not fall so far from the way of the Hunter that they are given the ultimate sentence--starvation and extinction--then there is always hope for redemption. Whales are favored prey, but there is at least one very notable exception.

The mighty orca has established itself as an apex predator, hunting even much larger whales (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hpil8EBVMLM&feature=youtu.be&t=3m40s), and as such is worshiped as a symbol of redemption. The holy orca represents the ability to rise above one's history, be it ancestry or deeds, and become something greater. Non-sahuagin levies for the great empires of the fishmen sometimes use the orca as their banner, symbolizing their loyalty to Sekolah above their ancestry.

The flags might look something like this: https://www.reddit.com/r/vexillology/comments/86s4uu/a_flag_for_the_orca_dictatorship/

At least in our world, it turns out that some orca groups prey on sharks.

[LudicSavant]

At least in our world, it turns out that some orca groups prey on sharks.

That they do! They are so powerful they can just toy with great whites. :smallsmile:

Oh, and throw seals higher than the birds circling overhead (https://youtu.be/G7WGIH35JBE?t=28s). Orcas OP.

[Deepbluediver]

The Black and White Banner:
It is a misconception that Sekolans merely look down on whales and dolphins. While it is true that their ancestors were punished for a grievous sin, Sekolah's judgments are always fair, and so long as one does not fall so far from the way of the Hunter that they are given the ultimate sentence--starvation and extinction--then there is always hope for redemption. Whales are favored prey, but there is at least one very notable exception.

The mighty orca has established itself as an apex predator, hunting even much larger whales (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hpil8EBVMLM&feature=youtu.be&t=3m40s), and as such is worshiped as a symbol of redemption. The holy orca represents the ability to rise above one's history, be it ancestry or deeds, and become something greater. Non-sahuagin levies for the great empires of the fishmen sometimes use the orca as their banner, symbolizing their loyalty to Sekolah above their ancestry.

The flags might look something like this: https://www.reddit.com/r/vexillology/comments/86s4uu/a_flag_for_the_orca_dictatorship/
This is the sort of thing I'd love to see for some of the other, more conventional deities, as well. D&D 3.5 classic has something like ~100+ gods and goddesses and other assorted entities, so many we can barely keep track of them. A better way to do things, IMO, is to have fewer godly powers but with many different cultural interpretations. And none of them are necessarily all wrong or all right- the gods are beyond mortal ken and can be many things at once. It seems like exactly the sort of thing you could get a nice crusade going over, too. :smallwink:

[Mechalich]

The mighty orca has established itself as an apex predator, hunting even much larger whales (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hpil8EBVMLM&feature=youtu.be&t=3m40s), and as such is worshiped as a symbol of redemption. The holy orca represents the ability to rise above one's history, be it ancestry or deeds, and become something greater. Provincial levies for the great empires of the fishmen sometimes use the orca as their banner, symbolizing their loyalty to Sekolah above their ancestry.

In the context of a fantasy world, an Orca is not an especially large predatory whale. The fossil history of whales includes an entire suite of apex predator sperm whale relatives (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macroraptorial_sperm_whale) include such toothy titans as Livyatan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livyatan), and the entirety of the Basilosauridae (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basilosauridae) and relatives. Baleen whales are actually a rather small and fairly recent (Miocene) radiation of whales and many early Mysticeti retained teeth and were predatory, with most utilizing suction feeding in a fashion reminiscent of modern beaked whales.


At least in our world, it turns out that some orca groups prey on sharks.

Lots of things prey on sharks, not the least of which is other, bigger sharks. However, even the biggest shark is rarely the biggest thing in the ocean. While Chondrichthyans tend to be larger and especially more robust than Actinopterygii (the largest ray-finned fish is the ocean sunfish (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_sunfish), weighing a measly 1000 kilos), across deep time it has been an unusual situation where a shark loomed largest. Early sharks were out-massed by the largest placoderms, Permian sharks competed in size with large temnospondyls, various marine 'reptile' groups out-massed them throughout the Mesozoic, and even megalodon was probably never significantly larger than its cetacean contemporaries. Sharks have held the 'biggest' spot only during unusual periods, mostly those following mass extinctions (the extinction of the Placoderms at the end of the Devonian, for example, enabled an immense flowering on Chondrichthyan diversity in the Carboniferous).

While extremely large, heavy-bodied sharks do tend to crop up in deep time with regularity - ex. the Ginsu Shark (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cretoxyrhina), a Cretaceous species occupying an ecological niche very similar to the modern Great White - sharks have been much more successful as diverse mid-sized predators. The global great white population is at best around 5,000 and while that number is massively depressed due to human activity even in a pristine ocean the population would barely reach six figures. At the same time, the global population of the Blue Shark - the world's most abundant large shark - is likely to be in excess of 100 million.

[LudicSavant]

In the context of a fantasy world, an Orca is not an especially large predatory whale. The fossil history of whales includes an entire suite of apex predator sperm whale relatives (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macroraptorial_sperm_whale) include such toothy titans as Livyatan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livyatan), and the entirety of the Basilosauridae (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basilosauridae) and relatives. Baleen whales are actually a rather small and fairly recent (Miocene) radiation of whales and many early Mysticeti retained teeth and were predatory, with most utilizing suction feeding in a fashion reminiscent of modern beaked whales.

Fascinating. I actually had sperm whales in mind when choosing the wording "at least" to imply there could be more exceptions, but didn't know about all the extinct species mentioned. I'd be totally on board with any of them making a showing in this context.

The "hate dolphins" thing might even just be a manifestation of propaganda; in the old canon Sahuagin hate dolphins because of their association with aquatic elves, and the mythology might just be a reason for them to deny how wicked cool dolphins are.

[Mechalich]

The "hate dolphins" thing might even just be a manifestation of propaganda; in the old canon Sahuagin hate dolphins because of their association with aquatic elves, and the mythology might just be a reason for them to deny how wicked cool dolphins are.

Depending on certain interpretations there might be an awful lot of propaganda involved.

Warning, cladistic pedantry follows: In a taxonomic context it doesn't even make sense for Sahuagin to be associated with sharks at all. Art of sahuagin has consistently portrayed them as possessing ray-fins - their fins are clearly skin webs supported by bone or horn rays. As ray-finned fish-people, cladistically they are actually closer to mammals than they are to sharks, because Chondrichthyes splits from the other gnathostomes first (sharks are the most basal extant jawed vertebrates), before lobed-finned and ray-finned fishes diverge. A human is more closely related to a salmon than a salmon is to a shark in terms of who shares the most recent common ancestor.

Sahuagin are 'fish-folk,' not shark-folk. In fact, Pathfinder has an entirely different monster, the Adaro, to hold up the shark-folk end of things. Properly, Sahuagin predatory totems ought to be in the Actinoptergyii - including large predators like Barracuda, Swordfish, and Tuna (and also extinct monsters of the deep like Xiphactinus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xiphactinus)). Now, this is admittedly rather unfair to the poor sahuagin - because sharks are just so much cooler than large predatory bony fish - and it's not reasonable to expect a fantasy roleplaying game to adjust its mythos to reflect a change in the overriding paradigm of taxonomy that occurred after the poor buggers were introduced, but that is where the biology puts them.


Regarding whales though, one difference of import to a hunter god between Orcas and most other toothed whales (not just dolphins but also somewhat larger species like belugas and narwhals and the modern sperm whale) is that the biomechanics of their jaws mean they are at least partially gape-limited. These animals do not chew and generally swallow their prey whole, which limits the size of prey items that can be taken. Usually to much smaller than body size - suction feeders like beaked whales can be forty feet long, but mostly seem to consume small and soft-bodied squid. Orcas are the exception in that they can tear apart large prey to consume it in pieces, which allows them to hunt larger animals. This behavior is also shared by many large shark species, which have cutting-grasping dentitions capable of tearing apart carcasses.

[Eldan]

THANK YOU. Finally someone is saying it!

And now I'm off to stat out Placodermfolk, because why wouldn't you, they are so cool.

[LudicSavant]

As ray-finned fish-people, cladistically they are actually closer to mammals than they are to sharks

This is further reinforced by the fact that some of their mutants (called Malenti) look just like sea elves.


In a taxonomic context it doesn't even make sense for Sahuagin to be associated with sharks at all.

To be fair to the Sahuagin, the reason they respect sharks isn't because of biological similarity.

Dogs aren't man's best friend because of taxonomic similarity, after all. Nor are sacred cows sacred due to taxonomic similarity.


Regarding whales though, one difference of import to a hunter god between Orcas and most other toothed whales (not just dolphins but also somewhat larger species like belugas and narwhals and the modern sperm whale) is that the biomechanics of their jaws mean they are at least partially gape-limited. These animals do not chew and generally swallow their prey whole, which limits the size of prey items that can be taken. Usually to much smaller than body size - suction feeders like beaked whales can be forty feet long, but mostly seem to consume small and soft-bodied squid. Orcas are the exception in that they can tear apart large prey to consume it in pieces, which allows them to hunt larger animals. This behavior is also shared by many large shark species, which have cutting-grasping dentitions capable of tearing apart carcasses.

That's pretty awesome. I can totally see a Sekolan priest talking about this. :smallbiggrin:

[White Blade]

In your setting, what's the relationship of (say) Merfolk to the Deep Ones? Or any of the other aquatic races that seem closer to ordinary humanoids?

[Flyingbooks42]

The mind flayer city looks really interesting. I'm planning to modify it a bit and add it into a setting I'm making.

[LudicSavant]

"What we call the material plane is not, as man has so arrogantly posited, the center of the multiverse. It is but a speck of rebellious land, upon the unspeakable vastness of the elemental plane of water."
- Lordrigan, dwarven occultist


This is great!

:smallsmile:


In your setting, what's the relationship of (say) Merfolk to the Deep Ones? Or any of the other aquatic races that seem closer to ordinary humanoids?

The Deep Ones are respected, feared, and worshiped in many cultures, including those of the merfolk. The exact nature of this relationship varies widely by culture and sect. One tribe might fear the depths and seek to ritually appease or lull the Deep Ones, while another adorns themselves in bone trophies made from sailors lured to their doom by siren songs, and aspire to be even more vicious hunters than any sahuagin worshiper of Sekolah. Yet another group might seek immortality and mind-shattering enlightenment via the headless god Panzuriel, while another seeks to save their tribe from becoming an extension of the Council of Limbs. Others might revere Yeathan, Osprem, Procan, or all of the above. The people of the seas are at least as varied as those on the land, after all.

Also noteworthy, many merfolk and sea elves live under the rule of the expansive sahuagin empires. They aren't so much "at war with the sea elves" so much as they've already won, taking up the good real estate and driving the surviving sea elves to the fringes of their imperial dominion (with some refugee groups even fleeing to the land, where they sometimes do crazy things like "join up with a party of adventuring PCs"). Here, sea elves and merfolk are for the most part second class citizens, though some have earned a favored place amongst the oppressors of their race (such as under the black and white banner).

[Mith]

While I do greatly appreciate what you have already made available, do you plan on writing up/uploading the rest of the pantheon?

More related to the Deep Ones in particular, since it feels like Psionics is tied with the Deep Ones/Prime Material Plane, is Arcane and Divine magic seen as an Outsider force? If one uses the Weave concept, is it the fabric that anchors the Inner and Outer Planes to the Material Plane brought in by the Kings during the Creation Cycle? Or is it just another natural force?