Why do so many PBP games die?

[xDacY]

Hi all

I'm still fairly new to the whole PBP gaming, like 8months or so. Out of the 8months I've been gaming on the forums I've joined 5 games. Out of those 5 games 2 died on the launch pad 1 fizzled out after our first encounter the other right before our first encounter and the 5th is still going strong (I have high hopes for this last game) I just don't understand why the death rate for PBP is so high. If your a DM and you've devoted time into creating a campaign or even a whole world in one game why would you just walk away from it with no explanation. Is this just the nature of PBP games? Do you just join a few games and hope you get lucky and find one where everyone sees it through to the end. I know no one has a solid answear to my question, it just gets frustrating taking the time to make a character and a backstory just to see it fizzle away. Just curiouse on everyone elses experience with PBP, do you just get use to it and like I said before hope you find a good game.

[Crake]

Hi all

I'm still fairly new to the whole PBP gaming, like 8months or so. Out of the 8months I've been gaming on the forums I've joined 5 games. Out of those 5 games 2 died on the launch pad 1 fizzled out after our first encounter the other right before our first encounter and the 5th is still going strong (I have high hopes for this last game) I just don't understand why the death rate for PBP is so high. If your a DM and you've devoted time into creating a campaign or even a whole world in one game why would you just walk away from it with no explanation. Is this just the nature of PBP games? Do you just join a few games and hope you get lucky and find one where everyone sees it through to the end. I know no one has a solid answear to my question, it just gets frustrating taking the time to make a character and a backstory just to see it fizzle away. Just curiouse on everyone elses experience with PBP, do you just get use to it and like I said before hope you find a good game.

Well, remember that most DMs don't create their world for just one game. Some might not even create their world, just run a module or something. But any work they do, they can just carry over to a table game, or an online game.

I haven't had much experience with PBP, do the games usually run constantly, as in people just posting all throughout the week? If so, i can see why people might just forget about it, making a post and then just sitting around waiting for the next person can get frustrating. Just the asynchronous nature of posting on a forum doesn't make for a good gaming experience for that reason. I can honestly see most of the games dying because people forget about them, then everyone waits on those people, and then it's been 2 weeks with no activity and everyone just gets bored. That's the impression i've gotten from looking at pbp threads anyway.

If at all possible, do something with some level of real time, using stuff like roll20 or maptools, and have a set time of play, that way people will be there and available, and if you do it consistently, people won't get bored or forget.

[Faily]

Mind you, I've never tried PbP with D&D or Pathfinder, only with L5R, so this might not nescessarily apply.

In the PbP games I've ran and played in, the game is set to last a certain amount of days IC and OOC. Just now, me and a few other GMs just finished running a scenario that was The Tournament of the Emperor's Favoured, which is a nearly two-week long tournament with various tests and challenges each day. The one with the most points from the Tournament will hold the title of Emperor's Favoured for one year. The number of IC days was 13, and each IC day last 3 OOC days. While there's a tournament going on, games like these tend to be a bit sandbox, with other challenges popping up unannounced (like an attempt by spider-monsters to kidnap the princess). By the end of the game, we had about 30 or so active players.

Other L5R PbP games I've played run in the same style; a scenario to give characters a reason to be there, stuff happens, players make stuff happen. Some of these PbPs have been a chain of scenarios that link together for a lengthy campaign that's been running for over 3 years now.

So the games have a very intense active time (around two months of In-Character stuff happening), but it seems to work well in keeping the game alive and the players active.

Most of these games I've played are a bit more slow-paced and full of more roleplaying than dicerolling, so it doesn't fit everyone's style, but I find it very enjoyable to get that fully immersive roleplay experience. :)

[xDacY]

I get that PBP is going to be a lot slower paced and on average you'll probably only post about 1-3 times a week depending on everyone else's post. But still, one of the games the DM had a whole world map with 15 major locations a town map, this whole back story of the world and like I said we litteraly defeated the last goblin of the encounter and bam game over, no more posting. I guess it's just more frustrating then anything else.

[stack]

I've heard there are other sites with higher survival rates, but I can't speak to them myself. I've long since lost count of the games that died before recruitment was over. Real life seems to get in the way, new jobs, more college credits, family issues, even death, though most of the time you never find out why someone disappears. Only thing I can recommend is being active yourself and getting into enough games that a few of them last. Or find an in-person group or some live chat I suppose.

[Vhaidara]

As someone who does a lot of pbp, I have a few recommendations. Chief is good OoC communication.
My longest running game, the GM checks in at least once a weak. We've lost several people, but we filter in new ones. Half of the original party is still present, and the game has been going for over a year (also the source for my avatar).

The others that have good lifespans I've seen, we all keep in touch over Skype. So if something is going on, its as simple as launching the app, saying "**** went down, need few days", and you're set. It also means that, if you have quick but important questions (was that guard being sarcastic? Is that noblewoman in a position where I could reasonably get close enough to pick her pocket? Does anyone mind if I knock this prick on his ass?) You can get a faster answer.

One thing you can't expect from pbp is any kind of speed. The long running game is at a GM post a week, assuming no life problems crop up. A friend is in a rise of the Runelords that is reaching about halfway through book 2 after a year and half, maybe 2 years (I'm not in that game). For scale, my group did book 1 in about 3 months, which meant about 10 sessions.

[stack]

Games can move faster. The record for a game I have been in is getting through a book of an adventure path in less than six months. Most games with 1/week DM posts seem to languish quickly, but there are exceptions.

[JWallyR]

I wanted to chime in regarding the OOC communication- this thread was actually pointed out to me through the DM of a couple of my games who is also an IRL friend of mine. Our games typically have one active IC thread, one active OOC thread, and a Google Hangouts chat going. For character creation, big pre-game questions and background die-rolling (to not clutter up the IC thread with mechanics) we use the OOC thread; for quick questions, random chatter, etc. we use the Hangouts chats. The chats themselves are a diversion when the games themselves are slow (one or more members of the game is busy IRL, etc.) and I think we're all subscribed to the threads by email, so I imagine that helps prod the slower members.

That all being said, my experience may be really atypical, because I *exclusively* am in games through IRL friends, and while we've broadened our PbP circle to include exceptional non-preexisting-IRL-friends, the majority of my games are people that know they can give me a gentle ribbing to prod me into posting when I'm getting flaky. We use the PbP format to make up for geographical differences and to allow posting as 'filler' during slow work days, etc., not because we don't know people with whom to play.

Just my 2 cents. Feel free to send me a personal message or something if you have questions, as I don't plan to subscribe to this thread. :D

[Farmerbink]

Throwing in my two cents:

It ALL boils down to two things, which unfortunately, are not conducive to random strangers.
1: effective communication
2: mutual respect

For this reason, I only rarely ask for players or GMs through the forums, preferring to bring my own whenever possible. I also require using hangouts or Skype to communicate quickly, as Keledrath suggested. As long as the players (including GM) communicate and respect each other, it will last. It won't ever really be a fast-paced style of play, because that's not what the forum medium supports. However, it's VERY easy to make (for example) a single 10-minute post per day happen.

[Gabrosin]

DMing is a lot of work, whether it's done in person or online. In person, you've got a regular schedule, which is a motivating factor to get your **** together. PBP, there aren't set deadlines, so other stuff jumps the line on priority. Even if you do get a committed DM, a lack of responsiveness by the players can kill the DM's enthusiasm. Eventually, the feeling of progress being too slow gets contagious, and people start to forget to check in, which makes things slower, which eventually kills the campaign or necessitates the introduction of new players.

Add on top of that all the stuff life throws at people.

[Gwynfrid]

I recommend you take a look at this thread, (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?405811-Need-additional-data-Theory-of-Game-Longevity&highlight=PbP) which addressed the same question a few months ago. My own opinion on the matter is here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19041841&postcount=18), and others on that thread also had good advice.

[Eldan]

I don't know why, but for some reason, the atmosphere on this forum is just terrible for PbP. Games here almost never work. I've been on other fora where abandoning a game just simply never happened and would get a person ostracized forever if it was done. I've also been on forums where everyone made four, five posts a day and games moved at a brisk pace, not like here.

So, go elsewhere for your forum gaming. This isn't the place for it, sadly.

[Gwynfrid]

I don't know why, but for some reason, the atmosphere on this forum is just terrible for PbP. Games here almost never work. I've been on other fora where abandoning a game just simply never happened and would get a person ostracized forever if it was done. I've also been on forums where everyone made four, five posts a day and games moved at a brisk pace, not like here.

So, go elsewhere for your forum gaming. This isn't the place for it, sadly.

This forum isn't dedicated to PbP. So, you can expect standards to be a bit different. Obviously, if a forum does nothing but PbP, then the people there will shun you if you disrupt play. Here, people run the gamut of forum activities.

That said, I've been able to have perfectly good, long term games here and I don't see the need to go somewhere else.

[Solaris]

I don't know why, but for some reason, the atmosphere on this forum is just terrible for PbP. Games here almost never work. I've been on other fora where abandoning a game just simply never happened and would get a person ostracized forever if it was done. I've also been on forums where everyone made four, five posts a day and games moved at a brisk pace, not like here.

So, go elsewhere for your forum gaming. This isn't the place for it, sadly.

What forums have you found are good for 3.5E PbP? I've had terrible luck here; out of the three-four games I've tried running here and MythWeavers, I think I've had maybe three players who didn't simply ghost - and those were the ones who messaged me and told me they couldn't play for one reason or another.
This isn't counting the one where everyone joined just to bitch about the house-rules, mind. That one I called off long before it got into play because I'm spiteful like that.

[Togo]

I think part of the problem is that it's mail based.

In a face-to-face game, you can see how people react to what you say. This means, as a DM or as a player, you can tell when people don't understand, when they aren't enjoying what's going on, and when they are, and tailor what you say accordingly. In a mail game, you can't. That guy who's annoying you? Will still be annoying you in exactly the same way in 6 months time, unless you talk to him. So people put up with a lot- minor annoyances, bits that bore them, and so on, for the sake of the game. But the game is slow, the annoyances are daily, and it's just harder to keep things going without having interaction with the other players. This means that games are very hard to keep going unless they're fast paced, and fast paced games are, in practical terms, very hard to keep going for practical reasons, even if people are having fun.

The other part is that it's 3.5 Ad&D. It's a fairly system heavy game, and you use that system in combat, interacting with others. If I want to check a detail about the fight, move forward provoking an AOO, do a trip attack, attack the guy only if sucessful, do damage, see if he's dead, if not attack again, then take a move action involving another player, that's 7 interactions for one person's actions. Most actions aren't that complicated, but this means a single combat round can easily take a week or more.

[danzibr]

To throw my two cents in, I've been a part of 2 PbP games. For the first the DM just stopped posting. For the 2nd I was DM and was highly interested, but 3 of my 5 players just stopped posting. I still saw them post in other places on the forum, just not our campaign >.>

So... I dunno. I was involved, not sure why others weren't.

[xDacY]

I enjoy GiTP, I like the forum diversity and a lot of ppl here can be super helpful, even with the most noobish of questions. Granted you do get that one person that will crucify you over something but over all its a good site.

I definitely agree with you Farmerbink, communication and respect are key.

Is there anything in a post that stands out to you and says "Ok this DM has his s*** together and is in it for the long haul"? Other then him literally saying dedicated DM in for the long haul ect ect cause Iv read that 5 times before and only once has it been true.

[daremetoidareyo]

Mind you, I've never tried PbP with D&D or Pathfinder, only with L5R, so this might not nescessarily apply.

In the PbP games I've ran and played in, the game is set to last a certain amount of days IC and OOC. Just now, me and a few other GMs just finished running a scenario that was The Tournament of the Emperor's Favoured, which is a nearly two-week long tournament with various tests and challenges each day. The one with the most points from the Tournament will hold the title of Emperor's Favoured for one year. The number of IC days was 13, and each IC day last 3 OOC days. While there's a tournament going on, games like these tend to be a bit sandbox, with other challenges popping up unannounced (like an attempt by spider-monsters to kidnap the princess). By the end of the game, we had about 30 or so active players.

Other L5R PbP games I've played run in the same style; a scenario to give characters a reason to be there, stuff happens, players make stuff happen. Some of these PbPs have been a chain of scenarios that link together for a lengthy campaign that's been running for over 3 years now.

So the games have a very intense active time (around two months of In-Character stuff happening), but it seems to work well in keeping the game alive and the players active.

Most of these games I've played are a bit more slow-paced and full of more roleplaying than dicerolling, so it doesn't fit everyone's style, but I find it very enjoyable to get that fully immersive roleplay experience. :)


Ha! I ran that same module from the old L5R set back in the late 1990's. One of my crab PCs killed the guy who they caught cheating, while the crane and scorpion guy worked together to cheat even harder during the race on the final day and they would have won, if not for the crab guy also cheating, and then ratting on the other two.

[BlackCoatedMan]

As my friends can't have the same schedule, we play by post. That's one way to guarantee that your pbp won't die out or be forgotten. Play with your friends. You can use forums like these, social media, or a specialized site. Currently, we use social media for roleplay posts, and specialized sites for the dice rolls with map placements for tokens. Just my 2 copper points.

[Crake]

I enjoy GiTP, I like the forum diversity and a lot of ppl here can be super helpful, even with the most noobish of questions. Granted you do get that one person that will crucify you over something but over all its a good site.

I definitely agree with you Farmerbink, communication and respect are key.

Is there anything in a post that stands out to you and says "Ok this DM has his s*** together and is in it for the long haul"? Other then him literally saying dedicated DM in for the long haul ect ect cause Iv read that 5 times before and only once has it been true.

Probably check their post history and see how well their previous PbP games have gone?

[Aegis013]

As a moderately successful long-term PbP DM (game is still running strong after 14 months and some change), I can say one of the most important things is stressing posting rate. I try to respond to anything that gets posted IC or OoC as quickly as I can, as long as it's something that calls for a response from me (a question from one PC to another, I won't take, since the only time I will control PCs is if the player is missing from combat, and my method for doing such was outlined in my Big 16 for the game, or other rare but predefined circumstances).

Another important part is to bring in fresh players as needed. If a player announces they're leaving, or if it becomes apparent they're no longer going to be posting in your game, try to get new players in to keep the total posting rate up. It's also OK to let the poster who posts most often lead the group by the nose. Waiting for everybody's input on every decision can really slow down an already dangerously slow medium.

Lastly, understanding how absurdly slow PbP is, is important. My game tends to average just less than one level up per encounter. Having a character grow mechanically is just as important to many people as having a character grow through character development. If you play for 6-7 months and never make it from level 4 to level 5, that can be pretty frustrating, and reduce players' interest in the game.

To give a good idea of the pace of this game, we've been at this game over 14 months, and gained 5 levels so far, I think we've had about 7 major fights.

[Milodiah]

The issue I've always had with PBP games is the huge delay between input and action. Most of the games I've played were on the NationStates forums, in freeform GM-less format, so this particular issue was somewhat reduced (in exchange for a heap of other issues I don't want to expand on...just imagine stripping the mechanics from an RPG, stripping the refeeing role of the GM, and sitting down several players intent on playing to win, and you'll see what one of the issues was immediately.)


When there is a single GM individual from whom a response is required in order to continue the session, if his responses aren't predictably timed and/or improbably quick, the game will drag on and wear my patience thin. I remember once waiting 48 hours between posting about my character opening a broom closet and the GM getting back to me on what was in it. If you don't have a way of knowing that they will follow-up rapidly, it starts to feel like gaming by snail-mail.

[Mr. Bitter]

I think it's pretty obvious that D&D as-written is not optimized for PBP play. Somebody could probably cook up a more functional version of it with more post-oriented rules, e.g. initiative by post order. There is also a sort of shift that DM's need to make with regards to the flow of play: if a player posts about searching a room, the DM should post what they find when they open the closet, not just to note the presence of a closet. This necessarily involves less "gotcha" moments, you've got to give the player the benefit of the doubt with regard to taking safe or effective action, so their post can be about the interesting choices they make rather than about them springing endless traps.

[atemu1234]

I find they can die for a few reasons

Real-life interferes. You miss one session, feel bad about it, and don't do the next one because of it.
Lack of connections. You feel less connected because you don't know the people personally, and this makes it easier to give up.
Lack of appreciation. A DM may put forth a lot of work, but feels it is unappreciated because the players don't voice it as much in PbP.

[RoboEmperor]

The slowness makes people give up.

It's not fun
Waiting is painful
What am I doing?
Meh, I'll do something else

I am NOT saying pbp is not fun for everyone. I'm saying a lot of people find it not fun and just quit after giving it a try. You gotta be completely and totally into pbp or have huge patience to enjoy it, or you treat it like chess-by-mail thing, a once in a while brain teaser.

[Jack_Simth]

Another thing that kills games:
Everyone ends up waiting on everyone else.
Take a simple scenario:

The players have multiple paths they can take, unclear which is 'best'.
Each player chimes in on what they think should be done... but nobody actually makes any actions, because they don't want to force the party and want a consensus of how things should be handled.
DM is waiting because he needs to know what the party actually does before he can craft a response.

[LudicSavant]

The slowness makes people give up.

It's not fun
Waiting is painful
What am I doing?
Meh, I'll do something else

I am NOT saying pbp is not fun for everyone. I'm saying a lot of people find it not fun and just quit after giving it a try. You gotta be completely and totally into pbp or have huge patience to enjoy it, or you treat it like chess-by-mail thing, a once in a while brain teaser.

What really gets me is wondering why there seem to be so many PbP sites and so little in the way of good sites for organizing real time online play. Maybe I'm just not finding them? Honestly seems like a missed opportunity on the part of a lot of pen and paper RPG companies. I know WotC wanted to organize an online play league at some point but it just... never happened. Ugh.

[Anlashok]

What really gets me is wondering why there seem to be so many PbP sites and so little in the way of good sites for organizing real time online play.
Probably because a forum is easier infrastructure than anything else. Not a lot of sites like hosting chatrooms, and only a chunk of those have dice rollers and then functional maptools for minis-based tabletop is a step even beyond that.


I know WotC wanted to organize an online play league at some point but it just... never happened. Ugh.
Online game tools was one of the many things they used to promote 4e they never actually bothered with.

[LudicSavant]

Probably because a forum is easier infrastructure than anything else.

But even just having forums organize people to play games on something else would be really cool. And while some sites technically allow that, many discourage it (sometimes just by the way the forums are organized) and some even ban it.

[Kol Korran]

There was a thread dealing with basically the same subject a few months ago. It dealt mostly with D&D/PF if I remember correctly, but I think most of this is still relevant. I've copy pasted the main post here:



I no longer play PbP, but I have in the past for a few years, and had a few games that lasted quite some time, and some that had just evaporated.

I'll add my insights of the matter:
1) D&D played through PbP is a WHOLLY DIFFERENT GAME than played by table top. This is quite important. Many people just expect it is the same game, just played slower. The truth of the matter, that it is not. The speed makes it an entirely different game, with an entirely different focus, handling and more. If you expect to run it like a regular table top game, the game will fail. It's like traveling by plane (Table top_ vs. walking in terms of speed- The entire experience is different. What happens in a 4 hours table top session can take 4-6 months in PbP. I found out that if you want a successful PbP D&D game, you need to adjust the way you think of it, and the expectations from the game. You're playing a different game, and you need to realize it, and play accordingly. Some of the main issues are:

- Progress: D&D is a game of escalating power, character's mechanical and statistical development, and increasing challenges. This is quite a central theme of D&D, and players expect to level and progress every session- three or so. But for most D&D PbP games, the average time to "level up" make take about 10-14 months of game time. This frustrates a lot of players and DMs, who feel that the game isn't progressing, the characters aren't progressing or the plot is just not moving. Many quite because of this

When approaching a PbP game, you need to realize the following: You won't level up much, and the games on the whole moves quite slow... It will be rare and special when you level up. You need to be content playing the character AS IS, and enjoying it. Development occurs mostly in terms of fluff, story and so on, less in mechanics (I'll touch on that later).

Also, don't make far reaching long term plans, as this will frustrate you even more. In PbP, you really, really, REALLY need to enjoy playing what happens NOW, develop the current scene, instead of thinking in terms of long arching future developments. Otherwise- frustration will come your way. If you're a DM, then my advice is this- Don't plan overly long games. Think of games that last 2-4 levels tops. That in itself will take you several years in real life, and is quite hard to keep up. Whenever I saw adds like "An epic game! Ranging from levels 1-20!" And so on I knew the game will fail. The DM just have no clue of what to expect! A game that last from level 1-20 will take most of your life time in PbP. So... adjust accordingly- Play for the moment and the quite near future, not for the long stretches that tabletop D&D games plan for.

- Encounters and adventures: One of the best game I played was using the PF module "Slay the dragon". At the start the party is in a small town, and there are a lot of possibilities for small adventures, lasting 1-4 encounters. This was PERFECT! PbP adventures to my opinion, need to be fairly short (Sure, they can tie up to a bigger theme/ adventure/ goal/ campaign, but the immediate goal should be short). This is due to two reasons: With the Pace of PbPs, it's hard to keep an interest on a long adventure, that drags on. The mini adventures I mentioned can often take up 2-3 months in real time. More than that and people start to lose interest, and lose pace.

Secondly, while in a typical D&D game many of the encounters are "filler encounters"- mostly there for added combat fun, using up resources and setting atmosphere, the PbP medium can't really stand it. While in a typical tabletop D&D game the "plot/game changing" encounters range about 30-50% or so (In most games at least), in a PbP they need to be about 90-95% percent, or players lose interest. "Just another battle" quickly have them lose interest, due to the long time it takes to resolve, the complications in running it, and the low contribution to advancing the game, which feels already lagging. In PbP, you need to make things significant, ALL THE TIME. How to do that? Fewer challenges, but of greater danger and impact. I'll get into battles later,but for the most part, don't use "just another battle". Having nearly every battle be really important somehow, and have roleplay opportunities in it. (More on that later).

Also, while I'm on the subject- most D&D modules and adventure path just don't work well for PbPs! ESPECIALLY PF adventure paths, which tends to be loaded with such "filler encounters". 9Though there are a few exceptions, mostly more "stand alone" modules). They fit a table top game, but really, really suck for the most part for PbPs, for the reasons explained.

- Action Vs. Roleplay: Mechanics don't work well in PbPs. ESPECIALLY in D&D, who has tons of modifiers, exceptions, rules interactions and so on. Adjudicating rules, rolls and such can bog a tabletop game, but they bog a PbP far, far, far more. Unfortunately, D&D focuses a lot on combat. But PbP is not well suited for it. Many times, at the first or second combat people start drifting off. I'll touch on combats later, but just wanted to say that in PbP, the focus should NOT be on combats, or rule heavy encounters if possible. Tryo to find interactions with as few as possible rules.

But what to do? Well, not all is lost, if you adjust your expectations and desires from PbP (Again- this is NOT a table top D&D game!) you can have a really awesome and fun game! You see, while PbP has difficulties in many parts, it does shine spectacularly in one aspect: Description and roleplay. In table top, both the DM and the player improvise theirroleplay fast, on their feet. But lets face it- we are not exactly improvisational actors, and so the roleplay comes... so-so not so inspiring, not so bad ass, not so clever, many times a bit of a disappointment, at most times quite mediocre....

But in PbP? The player/DM has TIME to think, form, edit, and polish their posts, so it comes out as something more a kin to what you see in a book, or in TV shows/ movies. Descriptions, conversations and roleplay can be MUCH more satisfying and fulfilling in PbP! So in my opinion, shift the focus of the game- put emphasis on the conversations, descriptions, personalities and such.

As I've said at the start- Table top D&D and PbP D&D are really not the same animal. Treat them as wholly different games, using the same chasis, and you'll do better, and your expectations may be more in line of what the medium can offer.

2) Choose the players, not the characters: Many PbP adds start with laying out the premise of the game (Which is cool) but then ask for characters, basing adding someone to the game on the quality of the character. I have at times seen DMs who take a different approach, and seek to learn about the PLAYERS first. (usually with nearly no discussion about the characters they want to play). This makes for a much better screening process, and I'll try to explain why- This is a social game, and as such it is played amongst people. Most table top gaming have people from a similar location, similar life experience, similar age group and many times they are friends to some degree. All of this help make a more common base of expectations, maturity, play style and so on. It makes a foundation for a working group. This is later strengthened by interactions between players in the gaming table, not just the characters. The golden rule is you play with real people, not their characters.

PbP doesn't have that. It tries to group people from all over the globe, with vastly different ages, play styles, life experience, language, manners, expectations and more. And they don't know each other... Many groups also focus on the game of characters, with no real attempt to link players, so you still feel like you're playing with a group of total strangers, who's actions, mannerisms and more you may find difficult to understand, to interact with. (Heck, for most you barely know their ages, where they are from, and manytiems you have no idea of their names, faces and such). So you can often end up with people with great differences, who don't mash up from the start, and usually don't have a good medium to strengthen the relationships between them, to make a working group. This is a social game, between players, not characters.

This is why I say that at the screening process- focus on players, not characters. Ask about age, life experience, personality, favorite play style and focus, and so on, and try and make the group the most compatible. I'd suggest opening an OOC chat room (As has been suggested in previous posts) and see which people interact well, which less, and start with the group of people who seem to get along well, and have an interest in playing with each other. The thread (or a similar one) should be used when the game starts and develop as well. It's quite important to have the players interact and know each other to a greater degree than the web's anonymity, in order to create a functional group- to feel you're actually playing with people, instead of avatars of entities you barely know. Social game, social game, social game, right?

You may discuss characters and such, but this need not be the focus. Once you have a group, THEN assemble the characters. (make it a joint effort. This can make the group form better, and give them their first group effort to work at).

3) Keep it organized, keep it simple: It's hard to keep the players focused in tabletop at times. It's harder still to do so in PbP. Some of the better GMs I've known made sub threads to organize stuff: A thread to keep track of loot, a thread to keep track of recent battle maps, a thread to keep track of names of people, places and such, with a short description. It need not be overly flashy, complicated and such, but it needs to be clear, and efficient. This helps keep the focus a lot, especially if a player has been missing due to RL for a few days or a week. It helps them from falling off the game. I advise to delegate the keeping of such threads to player who show interest in that. It keeps them more involved.

4) Combat: First of all, have combat matter! Not just "Ok, we need to get by these monsters to move onward"... Don't do that. PbP combat should be engaging, and it should matter more than mere surviving the encounter. Try to put some plot/ theme/ story significance to most combats. Combats tend to drag on, be confusing, and are many times game stoppers. So keep them simple, sweet, furious and challenging. In D&D PbP I opt for fewer encounters, but of a higher CR or such. (CR +2 to +3 at most times).

Also, use maps! There are plenty of tools (Roll20 and Ditzie are quite decent). It helps keep people in the game, and it gives the more tactically oriented players something to focus on.

And keep things moving! The PbP forums are full of all kind of advice on how to speed up the combat, sometimes at the expense of regular D&D conventions. Ideas such as "One init for PCs, one init for opponents, act as you post in your init group", or "All DCs on the table" and so on or "Post What If in your posts" and more. I highly suggest the "players roll all of the dice" explained in my "Wrath of the Righteous" campaign log in my sig (In the first post). I have seen it first used in a PbP, and it saved loads of time!

5) Plan for short campaigns, or accept replacements: Though there are quite a few dedicated players and GMs, who are willing to be involved, invested, post regularly and participate, none of us can predict the future, and real life springs up things on you, even for the best intentioned gamers. With games assumed to last for several years, even great players happen to fall off, due to real life demands. So...either plan for short adventures (A level or two progression at most, sometimes not even that), or accept that some players will come, some will leave, and you may need to find new ones. This is the reality of PbPs- Accept it.

My opinion though? I think PbP is IDEAL for short adventures that have a strong, not regular theme. I once played an adventure based on the Seven Samurai movie, where a group of a few heroes must protect a small poor village from overwhelming bandit forces, and it was one of the best games I ever played. Short adventures have an unexpected benefit to them- Since the players expect it to be fairly short, they are more willing to be wilder, bolder, and more risk taking than on long adventures. This makes for much more satisfying heroics and roleplay in my opinion.

6) Should we play D&D? This game is the most common roleplay game, and has the widest support base, as well as player and DM base. However, in my opinion, mostly due to the reasons above, (mostly the focus of combats and the heavy rule system) it is not that well suited for PbP. Sure, you can adjust it, but in someways, it becomes a different game, and it is still... um... quite clanky. The focus on so many rules and mechanics makes D&D cumbersome for PbP.

But... there are other systems. I found the FATE core system, which focuses mostly on "Narrative focused" instead of "gaming focused" (That D&D is an example of), which makes it FABULOUS for PbP, and suits the medium so much more. I highly recommend to learn the system (Which has it's own quite different mind set, but which is quite awesome I think) the core rules are free, and the possibilities endless.

I hope this helps, good luck with your game! Just don't try to roleplay it as a table top game. It isn't. It's a whole new different beast. :smallwink:

These are my opinions at least, I hope it helps! :smallsmile:

[RoboEmperor]

What really gets me is wondering why there seem to be so many PbP sites and so little in the way of good sites for organizing real time online play. Maybe I'm just not finding them? Honestly seems like a missed opportunity on the part of a lot of pen and paper RPG companies. I know WotC wanted to organize an online play league at some point but it just... never happened. Ugh.

I believe this site, giantitp, has a forum for organizing such games via skype.

Roll20 is also an excellent way to create/join a game online. It's a virtual tabletop with everything built in such as tokens, sounds, map, lighting, etc. Most of the games I've played have been on Roll20. It's not just for 1 campaign, you meet people in a campaign and then if they like you, you'll be a permanent member of their d&d group. Roll20 is also free.

As for why there are so many pbp, what Anlashok said. Pbp is literally just a normal forum, where as sites that get teams together require severe coordination, and some technical knowledge on all parties involved, such as proficiency with maptool or roll20. I've met people who shy away from online play solely because they don't want to deal with maptoo or learn roll20 interfacel.

[LudicSavant]

I believe this site, giantitp, has a forum for organizing such games via skype. It has a forum for organizing any kind of game. If it had a dedicated subforum for real-time games, complete with stickies about how to organize real-time games and get tools for them and such (as you would expect for a dedicated subforum about such things), that would be a significant improvement in my mind.

As is, everything is mashed together, so players who only want one type of game (real time or pbp) can't find a list of one or the other at a glance. I suspect that that simple factor is enough to discourage many potential players from going through the hassle of looking for games that suit their needs regularly. Also, the forum section is named "play by post games," even though the forum description says you can recruit for other kinds of games.