All Rogue Party

[BranMan]

How feasible would it be to have a party of five rogues? One would be from each archetype, Thief, Assassin, Arcane Trickster, Mastermind, and swashbuckler. I think that rogue is the most well designed class in the PHB given how adaptable it is, as it can be used for so many builds. The rogues in this class could multiclass, but they would need to take 3 levels to get their archetype first. This would probably be best in an urban campaign in a port city. The main problems would be healing and arcane versatility, but with DM fiat the thief rogue could use the healer feat with fast hands and heal as a bonus action, making them a decent combat healer without expending a great deal of resources. Any rogue could be a great grappler with expertise, and likely every skill could be covered by the party, ten or less of which would be expertised.

Heists, robberies, infiltration, assassination, and general sneakiness would be sure to follow.

How does this idea sound? Any ideas?

[DivisibleByZero]

with DM fiat the thief rogue could use the healer feat with fast hands and heal as a bonus action, making them a decent combat healer without expending a great deal of resources

That requires no DM fiat. That's simply how the Fast Hands ability works in conjunction with the Healer feat.

[Ninja_Prawn]

That requires no DM fiat. That's simply how the Fast Hands ability works in conjunction with the Healer feat.

Is your heart made of stone, Divisible? The OP paints a picture of a glorious future where everyone is lovable and/or roguish, and all you can do is quibble about terminology?

An all rogue party would be a thing of beauty, BranMan! Don't let these squares cramp your style.

[Human Paragon 3]

Sounds like a blast! The arcane trickster could take spellcaster initiate for cleric and gain cure wounds and cast it from his spellsots. It might push on the low level of spell slots, but still.

It might also be cool for one of the rogues to pick up a couple maneuvers via a feat. Different races could be used to sprinkle around weapon and armor proficiencies to further differentiate their styles.

[EvanescentHero]

If you're worried about healing, allow the healing surge variant in the DMG. I think it lets you expend hit dice as an action, instead of only on a short rest.

[DivisibleByZero]

Is your heart made of stone, Divisible? The OP paints a picture of a glorious future where everyone is lovable and/or roguish, and all you can do is quibble about terminology?

An all rogue party would be a thing of beauty, BranMan! Don't let these squares cramp your style.

5e is designed in such a way that there isn't any need for any particular "roles" to be filled. A party of all rogues will work just as well as a party of all wizards, or a party of all fighters, or what have you.
They'll all work just fine as long as the characters each have their own niche.
So I thought I'd point out that what he claimed as needing DM fiat does not in fact require DM fiat.

[Goodberry]

If everyone has good initiative and a way to get sneak attack, at level 7, I estimate 5 PC could put out at least 30d6+20 damage before the boss gets his turn. That should take down a Young Black Dragon.

[BranMan]

If everyone has good initiative and a way to get sneak attack, at level 7, I estimate 5 PC could put out at least 30d6+20 damage before the boss gets his turn. That should take down a Young Black Dragon.

And then when the dragon uses its breath attack if it survives, everyone has evasion so no one takes damage!

Lots of cool ideas here, I like the healing surge concept.

And divisible, I just checked the book and you're right, thanks for the clarification! (Now I know what my next AL character will be!)

And N_P, I misread your post and thought you were describing a world where literally everyone is a rogue and that sounds amazing! It would be a commune, essentially, because there would be so much theft that no one would remember what belongs to who! And everyone would move super super fast with their constant cunning actions, every bank would be constantly robbed, people would be really really skilled, and everyone would just dodge everything!!!

[Coidzor]

8.5 average hp healed starting from level 1 is pretty nice, even if it is only once per rest. 2d4+2 averages 7, so the feat's a better 0.5 gp per use version of a standard potion of healing. 50 gp vs. 0.5 gp, that's 1/100th of the cost per dose. And then it scales.

Dang, that is nice. Combined with someone using Inspiring Leader that's a 7.5+Cha+2*Level buffer of HP each rest that doesn't have to be handled by potions or spells.


And N_P, I misread your post and thought you were describing a world where literally everyone is a rogue and that sounds amazing! It would be a commune, essentially, because there would be so much theft that no one would remember what belongs to who! And everyone would move super super fast with their constant cunning actions, every bank would be constantly robbed, people would be really really skilled, and everyone would just dodge everything!!!

I think that's the flanderized version of Kendermore or wherever the Kender lived. Before it got burnt to the ground anyway.

[djreynolds]

Ocean's 11. Very cool.

[JellyPooga]

Heists, robberies, infiltration, assassination, and general sneakiness would be sure to follow.

How does this idea sound? Any ideas?

You don't have to limit yourself to illicit activities;

- The Arcane Trickster is a master of lore; Sage background, Expertise in Arcana and History. He used to teach at a Wizard school and knows more about esoteric magical theory (if not the actual application) than any Wizard. His contacts at the school keep him informed about the whereabouts of rare and magical artefacts and their divinations are constantly on the lookout for threats from outside (or within) the kingdom.

- The Assassin leads a double-life; Noble background, Expertise in Deception and Persuasion. His public persona is the son of a wealthy Baron; he attends balls, courts ladies and attends to the duties of the nobility. Behind the scenes, he's a dashing masked swordsman, righting the wrongs of his greedy and nefarious peers. His social network gives him leads on missions and quests unattainable to lower ranked adventurers and his birthright might even give him the ear of the crown.

- The Thief is a travelling tinker; Folk Hero background, Expertise in Insight and Thieves Tools, Racial Proficiency in Medicine. Everywhere he drives his cart, people flock to him for the trinkets and tonics he sells, the medical advice he can give and his expertise with intricate devices. Common people are comfortable around him and often tell him their woes, from the predations of bandits and wolves to rumours of local caverns reported to house vast stores of wealth.

I'd do the Swashbuckler and Mastermind, but I'm not familiar enough with them to do them properly! You get the idea, though; Rogues might all be painted with the same criminal brush, but they really don't have to be.

[RealCheese]

long but awesome post

I just rolled up an acolyte assassin and I approve of this message.

[Coffee_Dragon]

The main problems would be healing and arcane versatility, but with DM fiat the thief rogue could use the healer feat with fast hands and heal as a bonus action, making them a decent combat healer without expending a great deal of resources.

Well, that's if you don't find it absurd to locate, examine, clean and bandage a wound on someone quite possibly wearing armour within one or two seconds using non-magical equipment without affecting their or your other combat activities in the slightest.

Even if my DM's brain somehow fell out and he were to allow this, I wouldn't do it, since it's absurd. Also note that even by the rules you still have to get rid of everything in your hands to wrap bandages under someone's armour and all that, then recover it when you're done, which may well require multiple actions.

[Belac93]

Campaign idea: Thieves guild, with a character of each rogue subclass. Assassin+Mastermind could be the infiltrators, and the thief and arcane trickster could steal as the swashbuckler is a distraction. In large scale combat the Mastermind could use Master of Tactics to allow sneak attack to the characters who aren't paired up with another, and also use a shortbow or rapier in the meantime. If a group of rogues worked together, the Mastermind would be a huge advantage. Or mastermind charlatan + Assassin could sneak into anywhere, even places that a thief couldn't go to.
This could be how it could work.

[Nishant]

And then when the dragon uses its breath attack if it survives, everyone has evasion so no one takes damage!

Lots of cool ideas here, I like the healing surge concept.

And divisible, I just checked the book and you're right, thanks for the clarification! (Now I know what my next AL character will be!)

And N_P, I misread your post and thought you were describing a world where literally everyone is a rogue and that sounds amazing! It would be a commune, essentially, because there would be so much theft that no one would remember what belongs to who! And everyone would move super super fast with their constant cunning actions, every bank would be constantly robbed, people would be really really skilled, and everyone would just dodge everything!!!

But if 'fast' is relative, and everyone is a speedy rogue.. Isn't that 'normal' speed for them? :smalltongue:

Seriously though, this sounds really neat.

[1Forge]

A group of children bump into your party. Secretly they're a gang pick pocketing you all for your gold. Later that day they snicker pulling out their coin purses. Unfortunately they only find a piece of parchment reading "better luck next time". The party then spends the night in the finest inn counting coins all the while.

A nearby party of bards see what the thieving stunt and follow the rogues. They wait till they're all drunk then play an enchanting tune. Before the rogues know what happened they've thrown all they're cash to the performers in a drunken haze.

Sorry Bard still wins :P

[RazDelacroix]

Once upon a time, there were five bold souls from five different adventuring crews who were doing their best to make their way through the world. Then one day, disaster struck the city, and these five souls were bound forever by loss and tragedy. For in the aftermath, a wicked prince lay the blame upon them for the horror and summarily locked them away to be executed at dawn.

However, in the dungeons deep, did these souls shine so bright. They escaped and now wander the land righting wrongs in a world that does not trust them. Amidst conspiracy and drama, they shall tackle all evil they come upon in a manner that can only be called, a sneak attack!

They are, THE R TEAM!

[PoeticDwarf]

How feasible would it be to have a party of five rogues? One would be from each archetype, Thief, Assassin, Arcane Trickster, Mastermind, and swashbuckler. I think that rogue is the most well designed class in the PHB given how adaptable it is, as it can be used for so many builds. The rogues in this class could multiclass, but they would need to take 3 levels to get their archetype first. This would probably be best in an urban campaign in a port city. The main problems would be healing and arcane versatility, but with DM fiat the thief rogue could use the healer feat with fast hands and heal as a bonus action, making them a decent combat healer without expending a great deal of resources. Any rogue could be a great grappler with expertise, and likely every skill could be covered by the party, ten or less of which would be expertised.

Heists, robberies, infiltration, assassination, and general sneakiness would be sure to follow.

How does this idea sound? Any ideas?

No problem, of course there isn't enough healing, but in my experience you don't really need healing. In an urban setting rogue is a perfect class and there can't be any problem with this.

[saeval]

I would go Nuts with this set up. I would love every second of it... as a player. As a DM I'd pull my hair trying to come up with scenario's that could withstand that level of flexibility/fluidity.

[CNagy]

Healing and arcane versatility wouldn't be so much of a problem with a Rogue multiclass crew. The way I see it, you're pretty much a serious Rogue when you hit Level 7; Evasion, Uncanny Dodge, 2 helpings of Expertise, Cunning Action, and 4d6 Sneak attack damage--that's a lot of essence of Rogue. You might want to go as far as level 9, considering the emphasis on a five-man-band of Rogue archetypes (or even 13, if you are playing high level) but there isn't really much of a compelling reason to go past that in Rogue, leaving a lot of space for other classes.

Heck, you could knock out healing and arcane versatility in one go with an Arcane Trickster/Favored Soul (Life Domain) character. If that's loading up too much onto one character, any of the Rogues could MC into a Trickery Domain Cleric. Rogue is a beast of a chassis to layer on any other type of character.

[ShikomeKidoMi]

You might want to go as far as level 9, considering the emphasis on a five-man-band of Rogue archetypes (or even 13, if you are playing high level) but there isn't really much of a compelling reason to go past that in Rogue, leaving a lot of space for other classes..

Depending on starting level, the campaign might not last long enough to occupy that space, though.

[CNagy]

Depending on starting level, the campaign might not last long enough to occupy that space, though.

You don't need to get to 9 or 13 before multiclassing, though. In a campaign that only gets to 6th level, you might have a party of Rogue3/MClass3. Up to level 8, perhaps Rogue3/MClass5. At level 9, perhaps Rogue4/MClass5. Etc. Rogue mixes well with other classes to yield a fairly smooth progression.

[BranMan]

Would anyone be interested in playing this campaign in pbp? I think I'd want to use the dmg rest variant "gritty reslism," so short rests are a day and long rests are a week. It would be very urban and rp focused.

[Dizlag]

Ocean's 11. Very cool.

Yes, super cool! Though, technically it's BranMan's 5 ... =)

[Safety Sword]

This party would be exceptionally boring to DM for.

[Dizlag]

This party would be exceptionally boring to DM for.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not able to see the potential for a great campaign. :smallsmile:

Dizlag

[Safety Sword]

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not able to see the potential for a great campaign. :smallsmile:

Dizlag

I wasn't being sarcastic.

Every character doing the same thing every time there's any sort of encounter. Boring.

[JoeJ]

I think this could be fantastic, provided the players make an effort to distinguish their characters from one another through backgrounds, proficiencies, and most importantly, personality.

[Naanomi]

An all bard party has potential as well

[JellyPooga]

I wasn't being sarcastic.

Every character doing the same thing every time there's any sort of encounter. Boring.

Really? Rogues are masters of improvisation. More so than any other Class. I imagine that a game with all Rogues would likely be more varied than your typical multi-class party, if nothing else as the players all strive to distinguish themselves from one another.

How is any other combination of Classes any less boring? Most character builds, regardless of Class, boil down to a single "best" thing to do. The Fighter hits things with his sword in every encounter, the Bard buffs the Fighter in every encounter, the Wizard wins everything forever in every encounter...how dull :smallwink:

[Bupp]

I could see it working very well.

As for healing, the healing feat and fast hands is one of the better options for in-combat healing. Out of combat healing using rests is way better than most spell-based healing.

Each of the different archetypes would make for some pretty nice diversity of abilities as well.