Flash, Season 2

[Pex]

I find I'm still not used to everyone in the cast knowing Flash's identity. Secret identities are common for superheroes, and I like that aspect. Watching Daredevil on Netflix, I enjoyed Murdock being Murdock. With everyone knowing Barry Allen is Flash, that sense of mystery is lost.

Why did they bother with a villain of the week? He was barely there, only to set-up foreboding doom with Zoom. Dealing with the aftermath of the previous season finale was fine, but throwing this in was a distraction. It would have been better served as its own episode with more development.

I put the odds at 70/30 when they find Robbie Amell he'll have his shirt off. :smallamused:

[BWR]

The special effects forthe Atom Smasher were a bit off. Normally I give that a pass in tv series but compared to the rest of this show it didn't work. Villain-wise he was pretty useless and didn't get much time. They would have done better to have one episode be Barry trying to fix things on his own and getting his father out of prison and one dealing with AS and how Barry needs his team. Not to mention how Barry casually lures him into a death trap. I would expect that from Arrow-Ollie, not Barry. I'm a bit surprised at Henry's decision to run off. Claiming that Barry didn't need him so he should leave makes no sense. Henry would want to spend time with his son, Barry wants to spend time with his father and neither of those things means Barry can't be the Flash as well.
As for everybody knowing Barry is the Flash, I expected it after seeing how things were handled in Arrow. It doesn't really bother me too much. At some point people will find out. I just hope they don't overuse the 'hero out and about, support team back at base' formula if they make more series set in this universe

[Metahuman1]

I like that they know. It as actually really annoying that they were keeping it secret from the inner circle.

Apart form that, isn't Atom Smasher a good guy in the comics?

And yeah, hoping we find Ronnie alive and well before the seasons over. (I did like the nod to Grod however.) Also, seriously Barry, take a karate class or something. You NEED to learn how to make E=MC2 work for you. You should not be loosing to guys like that.


Oh, yeah, and handing Henry the idiot ball there at the end. Seriously dude, your a medical doctor. How do you not think that could come in handy dealing with figuring out massive physical changes on meta humans and patching your son up when he get's hut? c

[BWR]

Well he is 15 years out of date and out of practice. He might want to polish his skills on some less important people before working on Barry.

[t209]

Apart form that, isn't Atom Smasher a good guy in the comics?

Well, he was bad guy in first comics and it was brief.
So any appearance of Wally West, who I hope will not be New 52 and more like the one we used to know and love despite being black. I don't mind him being but I do mind getting angry at erasing him from existence in Flashpoint and his family :smallfurious:.

[Hopeless]

As I recall his father was a villain didn't know Atom Smasher started off as a villain you never know maybe he survived that radiation shower?:smalleek:

So what exactly happened?

Did that wormhole drag several people from their alternate realities and into the Flash Prime?

[TheEmerged]

RE: Atom Smasher (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Rothstein)
He was originally from pre-Crisis Earth 2 - named Nuklon, with Infinity Inc, and wore a ridiculous mohawk. He was the adopted son of the original Atom (and I mean Al Pratt). He changed his name when he joined the JSA proper during the Crisis era. He briefly became an antagonist (not a full-on villain) during that run when he joined up with Black Adam. If he's shown up in New52, I missed it.

I haven't had a chance to double-check, but I would have SWORN Al Rothstein was on the list of "People I Killed" by Dr. Wells during Season 1. Sorry, there's just been too many DVD's for me the last month to keep up...

EDIT: Episode 7, Blackout
"Jake Davenport, Daria Kim, Ralph Dibny, Al Rothstein, Grant Emerson, Will Everett, Bea DeCosta, Ronnie Raymond..."

[Pex]

We're formally introduced to Jay Garrick, Flash of Earth 2, so naturally he needs to have his shirt off for half the time he's on camera. :smallsigh:

Noticeably annoying no one suggested Ronnie didn't die but got pulled into Earth 2.

[huttj509]

Noticeably annoying no one suggested Ronnie didn't die but got pulled into Earth 2.

*facepalm* Also annoying is how that possibility didn't cross my mind until you mentioned it.

[BWR]

A better episode than last time but I am concerned with everyone's sudden calm acceptance of casually killing the baddies. That's such a shift from last season and it really is out of character for pretty much everyone. I'm not sure it is worse than locking everyone up in a 10-foot bare cells with absolutely no amenities, potentially forever but it is quite cruel.

Apart from that, fun to see Earth-2 and Wells. I hope we see more of him, even if he won't be Eobewells.

[The New Bruceski]

New character could be an interesting addition to the team, but I'm worried her entire purpose is going to become the new "don't tell Iris" to lightningrod any mandatory CW drama.

[BWR]

Forgot to mention: Monty Python reference.
It's about time they did one - nerds, ime, like quoting MP.

[Pex]

A better episode than last time but I am concerned with everyone's sudden calm acceptance of casually killing the baddies. That's such a shift from last season and it really is out of character for pretty much everyone. I'm not sure it is worse than locking everyone up in a 10-foot bare cells with absolutely no amenities, potentially forever but it is quite cruel.

Apart from that, fun to see Earth-2 and Wells. I hope we see more of him, even if he won't be Eobewells.

We're supposed to make the connection that Wells of Earth-2 is Zoom. It works both ways if he is or isn't and is Honest True Good Guy.

[LaZodiac]

We're supposed to make the connection that Wells of Earth-2 is Zoom. It works both ways if he is or isn't and is Honest True Good Guy.

That'as assuming that was Earth 2 of course.

Anyway, Zoom is obviously going to be an alternate reality Barry, so we can have that bit of existential crisis. He is the Reverse Flash to alternate reality Wells' Flash, for lack of a better term.

[Areswargod139]

We're formally introduced to Jay Garrick, Flash of Earth 2, so naturally he needs to have his shirt off for half the time he's on camera. :smallsigh:

Noticeably annoying no one suggested Ronnie didn't die but got pulled into Earth 2.

I wanted to yell at the tv when they didn't know what to do about Jay's speedlessness. "Put him in Well's chair!" I wanted to say. But you know tvs don't listen:smallsmile:.

It's the same thing that happened to Wells/Thawn--he went to a parallel earth and/or timeline which somehow cut him off from the speed force. He still has the physiological changes, though. Wells gave himself short amounts of speed by sitting on a futuristic generator affixed to his wheelchair. Jay is in the same situation or at least a similar one.

So again I say, "Put him in the chair!" But you know internets don't listen.

Another point: I like how confident and mentor-y Jay is because he's been doing this for...TWO WHOLE YEARS! Wow! Careful you don't break a hip old man! *snicker* You have to love how youth-obsessed CW is.

[LokeyITP]

Speaking of other writing weirdness: did Jay say he could run faster than light in the first round of tests? And Kaitlain didn't notice?

[GAZ]

I think he said that he could run almost as fast as light? But more importantly, this is the second episode in a row where Barry pretty much murders the villain of the week and nobody says anything to him about it.

[Sliver]

Jay said he can run at near light speed, and that Zoom is faster than him... Barry is nowhere near that fast, if Jay is correct, so... At first I thought that maybe if Zoom comes to Barry's world, he will be cut from the speed force like Jay, but didn't we see him come through the rift to instruct Sand Demon, and he was still doing that face speed-blur?

Yeah, the casual killing of metas these last two episodes is a bit jarring, considering how much s*** they gave Oliver for it... At least mention it, say that there was no other way or whatever, but nobody cares, while the Green Arrow is the one that is getting mildly annoyed at his sister's violent streak.

[BWR]

Jay said he can run at near light speed, and that Zoom is faster than him... Barry is nowhere near that fast, if Jay is correct, so... At first I thought that maybe if Zoom comes to Barry's world, he will be cut from the speed force like Jay, but didn't we see him come through the rift to instruct Sand Demon, and he was still doing that face speed-blur?

Yeah, the casual killing of metas these last two episodes is a bit jarring, considering how much s*** they gave Oliver for it... At least mention it, say that there was no other way or whatever, but nobody cares, while the Green Arrow is the one that is getting mildly annoyed at his sister's violent streak.

How did Barry travel in time last season? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that speed-based time travel in DC required superluminality.
Granted, he hasn't shown any ability to go near this fast on a regular basis.

[Fragenstein]

How did Barry travel in time last season? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that speed-based time travel in DC required superluminality.
Granted, he hasn't shown any ability to go near this fast on a regular basis.

Yeah, he normally has to use the Cosmic Treadmill to travel time -- but not always. Last season had him hitting MACH 2 in the accelerator and then colliding with a hydrogen particle, which most likely WAS traveling at-or-near lightspeed. That supposedly produced enough energy to open the time portal.

[Jayngfet]

Of course Jay is faster than Barry. Jay had to deal with an evil speedster that presumably wasn't helping him along and his own regular rogues along with them, and it looks like he didn't have a team to back him up either. In a situation like that you either git gud or you die.

[LaZodiac]

New episode!

Not a big fan of this one. Cop girl is obviously Iris 2.0. It's lame. It was nice to see Captain Cold back but come on, I get the guy is a good guy and promised not to kill anyone but he really really should of just iced daddy dearest over when he was like "yo I put a bomb in your sister's head help me or she dies."

Seriously, consider how useless Captain Dad was once the bomb was removed. It really wouldn't take Cold that long to kill him and be done with it. I guess it could be a deadman's switch though.

Anyone who knows Flash stuff know who the mystery man who appeared out of the Flash Cannon is? Also "Haha, Flash Cannon, as in cannon the shooter but it's a reference to canon the literature term."

[Antonok]

New episode!

Not a big fan of this one. Cop girl is obviously Iris 2.0. It's lame. It was nice to see Captain Cold back but come on, I get the guy is a good guy and promised not to kill anyone but he really really should of just iced daddy dearest over when he was like "yo I put a bomb in your sister's head help me or she dies."

Seriously, consider how useless Captain Dad was once the bomb was removed. It really wouldn't take Cold that long to kill him and be done with it. I guess it could be a deadman's switch though.

Anyone who knows Flash stuff know who the mystery man who appeared out of the Flash Cannon is? Also "Haha, Flash Cannon, as in cannon the shooter but it's a reference to canon the literature term."

Thought it was Earth 2's Dr. Wells (aka Zoom)? Looked like him.

[LaZodiac]

Thought it was Earth 2's Dr. Wells (aka Zoom)? Looked like him.

He looked a little old and his eyes where kinda sunken. So I'm not sure.

Also come on, Zoom isn't Earth-2 Wells. That'd be awful. Zoom is Earth-2 Barry.

[Sliver]

Did Captain Cold freeze the lasers? :smallconfused:

[LaZodiac]

Did Captain Cold freeze the lasers? :smallconfused:

Yeeees it's awful v_v

[Pex]

At least the males kept their shirts on. If they follow the pattern of last season, next week expect someone shirtless and alternate such episodes until the latter half of the season. Anyone know if Robbie Amell is on next week?

[BWR]

Since Barry is fast enough to catch a bullet, he couldn't dodge the freeze ray? Once he found out about the hostage, neither he nor CC thought to just have Barry superspeed-frisk Daddy to take the detonator? Or even just take it once the detonator was out in the open? Freezing lasers?

*repeats his mantra of "comicbook logic, comicbook logic, comicbook logic. ommmmmmmm"*

Other than having to remind myself that scriptwriters don't/can't think sensibly about these things, I'm still enjoying the show.

[Swaoeaeieu]

watching it right now and i have to say

SCREW YOU SISCO! YOU TRACKED A GOLD GUN WITH ULTRA-VIOLET LIGHT?!?! THAT.IS.NOT.HOW.HEAT.WORKS!!!

Ok i know these shows have a lot of dumb 'science' like this, but this one rubbed me the wrong way big time.

Dumb sci fi science mutilations grumble grumble


Ok im good. carry on y'all

[BWR]

watching it right now and i have to say

SCREW YOU SISCO! YOU TRACKED A GOLD GUN WITH ULTRA-VIOLET LIGHT?!?! THAT.IS.NOT.HOW.HEAT.WORKS!!!

Ok i know these shows have a lot of dumb 'science' like this, but this one rubbed me the wrong way big time.

Dumb sci fi science mutilations grumble grumble


Ok im good. carry on y'all



comicbook logic, comicbook logic, comicbook logic. ommmmmmmm

[Swaoeaeieu]

comicbook logic, comicbook logic, comicbook logic. ommmmmmmm

and now they can freeze lazers. *twitch*

ommmmmmmmmmmm

[Sliver]

and now they can freeze lazers. *twitch*

ommmmmmmmmmmm

I felt like it is something that we should all remember...

http://i.giphy.com/xTiTnhhvaXXZ5GtgJ2.gif

[Antonok]

and now they can freeze lazers. *twitch*

ommmmmmmmmmmm

http://static.fjcdn.com/gifs/Cartoon+logic_cea92e_5137162.gif

[Hopeless]

You know I was going to point out all they had to do was have him freeze blast the walls where those lasers are coming from causing them to malfunction and shut off because they pretty much overloaded themselves from the sudden temperature change then I looked at the second one and first thought its a cartoon and even then why not just use those compacts to deflect the laser pen if that's how it supercharges the beam... yes I'm thinking too much on this!

Oh and regarding Ironside.
Did it look like he was staring at Captain Cold and thinking WTF is he doing?!":smallsmile:

[Sliver]

Oh and regarding Ironside.
Did it look like he was staring at Captain Cold and thinking WTF is he doing?!":smallsmile:

How would you look at a person trying to freeze lasers?

[LaZodiac]

Seriously though why couldn't Cold of just moved his gun a little bit more to the left and killed his Dad right there? This entire plot could of been solved by Captain Cold just...removing his Dad from existence.

[Hopeless]

How would you look at a person trying to freeze lasers?

Very true!

[Hopeless]

Seriously though why couldn't Cold of just moved his gun a little bit more to the left and killed his Dad right there? This entire plot could of been solved by Captain Cold just...removing his Dad from existence.

Wouldn't have saved his sister's life if he had and that's why he was working with his dad as I understand it

[LaZodiac]

Wouldn't have saved his sister's life if he had and that's why he was working with his dad as I understand it

There is no sign of a deadman switch being involved, so just kill Dad and destroy the receiver. The bomb wouldn't matter anymore.

[Pex]

The episode reminded me of this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0iBwm491zs

[t209]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ic10Mpsxd2c
I am pretty sure that the white guy supposed to be a student and the one to be changed into a black student.
TO be fair, I am talking about comic version but I am more familiar with Brave and The Bold.

[LaZodiac]

The episode reminded me of this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0iBwm491zs

I love me some good satire.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ic10Mpsxd2c
I am pretty sure that the white guy supposed to be a student and the one to be changed into a black student.
TO be fair, I am talking about comic version but I am more familiar with Brave and The Bold.

Neat. Seem's like he's going to get all angry face about being made of fire and also an old white scientist though.

I don't know jack all about The Flash, why is Firestorm this ridiculous concept again?

[BWR]

I love me some good satire.



Neat. Seem's like he's going to get all angry face about being made of fire and also an old white scientist though.

I don't know jack all about The Flash, why is Firestorm this ridiculous concept again?

You mean 'why do two people have to merge to become a living fireball?"
Why does lightning and certain unnamed chemicals turn someone into a speedster?
why does 'yellow' sunlight turn someone into a demigod?
Why does being bitten by a radioactive spider give someone 'spider' powers?
Why is willpower green?

[LaZodiac]

You mean 'why do two people have to merge to become a living fireball?"
Why does lightning and certain unnamed chemicals turn someone into a speedster?
why does 'yellow' sunlight turn someone into a demigod?
Why does being bitten by a radioactive spider give someone 'spider' powers?
Why is willpower green?

Yes thank you Mr Sarcasm. I was asking what Firestorm's deal was, not "man comics are soooo unrealistic guys". I only started watching The Flash from the Mark Hamill episode.

[Kantaki]

I don't know jack all about The Flash, why is Firestorm this ridiculous concept again?

I think the two guys were merged with each other and with whatever the Firestorm project produced when the STAR-Labs went poof.
The merge combined the healthier body with the smarter mind and gave them the ability to immolate themself. Because evolution.

Then they were split and remerged with both minds having some control. Or something like that.

[LaZodiac]

I think the two guys were merged with each other and with whatever the Firestorm project produced when the STAR-Labs went poof.
The merge combined the healthier body with the smarter mind and gave them the ability to immolate themself. Because evolution.

Then they were split and remerged with both minds having some control. Or something like that.

So...he's a science experiment? Or is he a meta-human like all the other people altered by the big poof that happened at STAR labs?

[huttj509]

So...he's a science experiment? Or is he a meta-human like all the other people altered by the big poof that happened at STAR labs?

Some of collumn a, some of collumn b.

Scientist was doing some sort of test next to the reactor when it went boom, and got someone else's noble sacrifice from inside the reactor blown into him, along with a mixing of the experiment and the reactor explosion.

[Kyberwulf]

The whole thing about his dad leaving, I think it's because His dad is sick somehow. He doesn't want to distract Berry with it. That's why he was coughing and looking all foreboding.

[locke411]

Removing the super hero trope of hiding the identity allows the show to explore and play with other plot elements and drivers, though.

[LaZodiac]

What happened this episode I ended up missing it due to babysitting and the recorder not recording it!

[huttj509]

What happened this episode I ended up missing it due to babysitting and the recorder not recording it!

Firestorm has a new body, shark attack ("Zoom wants you dead"), and Wells saves the day(?).

[LaZodiac]

Firestorm has a new body, shark attack ("Zoom wants you dead"), and Wells saves the day(?).

Okay so it turns out nothing really bad happens from getting the new body, we get introduced to apparently a really badass villain, and Earth-2 Wells is a good guy? Seems sensible and what I expected minus the giant sharkman.

[BWR]

A much better episode than the rather weak beginning. I enjoy Stein and Wells greatly so more of them is good, as was the guest appearance by Amanda Pays. I already thought that Flash had Arrow beat last season and so far the new season of Arrow has tried to strengthen that conviction. However, Constantine will be showing up in at least one episode this season so my blatant fanboying over him may let Arrow pull ahead.l

[The New Bruceski]

Also the end-of-episode Special Guest is voiced by David Hayter (Solid Snake), if you wonder how he snuck up on Flash so easily.

[Starbuck_II]

Also the end-of-episode Special Guest is voiced by David Hayter (Solid Snake), if you wonder how he snuck up on Flash so easily.

Should have had a card board box nearby... Missed Opportunity.

[GAZ]

Anybody else spend most of the episode wondering "Where's Jason Rusch?" Like they had him on the show last season and explicitly connected him to F.I.R..E.S.T.O.R.M. but now that they decide to have young, black guy Firestorm (just like Jason Rusch) he's nowhere to be seen? I'm actually more annoyed by this than when they took the witty, rich inventor Ted Kord and claimed he was Ray Palmer instead. At least then it was because DC wanted to save the Jamie Reyes Blue Beetle for another project.

At least King Shark looked awesome. And could you believe on prime time television? What a day we live in.

[The New Bruceski]

Sadly the behind-the-scenes on that end scene was "whelp, there goes our budget for the season" so we're probably not gonna see him in a full episode.

But holy crap was it worth it.

[LaZodiac]

Anyone able to link me to that scene you're mentioning I wanna see it.

[Drakeburn]

Anyone able to link me to that scene you're mentioning I wanna see it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0B4HT2-w9dM

One King Shark link coming right up! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0B4HT2-w9dM) :smallbiggrin:

[comicshorse]

Does kinda make you wonder how he got around town without anyone noticing the giant, walking shark or maybe the citizens of Keystone are just getting used to the weird stuff

[LaZodiac]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0B4HT2-w9dM

One King Shark link coming right up! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0B4HT2-w9dM) :smallbiggrin:

Thank you for linking this, I have seen everything of actual importance from this episode.

...a shame King Shark apparently got killed though. He looks kinda cool...if really difficult budget wise.

Also man Flash has a lot of really weird ass villains.

[Drakeburn]

Thank you for linking this, I have seen everything of actual importance from this episode.

...a shame King Shark apparently got killed though. He looks kinda cool...if really difficult budget wise.

Also man Flash has a lot of really weird ass villains.

I know how you feel about having a majority of the villains in the show get killed off.

But after doing some research, I've found out that some of these villains aren't originally enemies of the Flash. Some were enemies of Firestorm (Multiplex and Plastique), The Atom (Bug-Eyed Bandit), All-Star Squadron (The Mist and Deathbolt), and a few I'm not exactly sure on (Shark King, Blackout, and Everyman).
It has become a pet peeve of mine that the Flash is fighting against villains who were supposed to be enemies of OTHER SUPERHEROES.

I mean, it makes sense that this is taking place in the DC Universe, but I'm wondering how many tv viewers there are who are confused about this.
I'd would've preferred if they stuck with the Flash's villains for the first season. :smallsigh:

[LaZodiac]

Look, Arrow stole Flash's Captain Boomerang, so damn if Flash isn't going to steal a few back since Boomerang is one of Flash's best villains. That's almost like stealing his Joker. Ignoring the fact that his Joker is The Trickster, you get what I mean.

[The New Bruceski]

I'm kinda surprised for Halloween they didn't go with Mirror Master. A guy who can jump out of any reflective surface at you would be good thematicly.

[huttj509]

I'm kinda surprised for Halloween they didn't go with Mirror Master. A guy who can jump out of any reflective surface at you would be good thematicly.

Oh, you'd have to have some scene with teens in a room saying Bloody Mary to freak themselves out.

[Hopeless]

Look, Arrow stole Flash's Captain Boomerang, so damn if Flash isn't going to steal a few back since Boomerang is one of Flash's best villains. That's almost like stealing his Joker. Ignoring the fact that his Joker is The Trickster, you get what I mean.

Considering both of them are played by Mark Hamill gives this an entirely new level of awesome!:smallamused:

Oh did you hear, apparently the Trickster is returning to the show for a future episode!:smallwink:

[Hybridartifacts]

I really enjoyed season one, not sure about season two yet. I find the characters to be engaging which is something I have not been getting from some other shows lately.

[Pex]

Considering both of them are played by Mark Hamill gives this an entirely new level of awesome!:smallamused:

Oh did you hear, apparently the Trickster is returning to the show for a future episode!:smallwink:

It was by playing Trickster in the earlier Flash tv show that helped get him the Joker job. He first used his Joker voice for Trickster. Mark Hamill appearing on this show was not some fLuke.

[LaZodiac]

New episode!


Doctor Light was done really well and I hope she doesn't get ****ed up like the comic version of him/her always does.

The fact that Zoom sent her, knowing she is someone from Barry's past, proves that Zoom is Earth 2 Barry to me.

The literal blind date is reeeaaaally dumb and I hated it but it had a good ending, we got a hint at Aquaman showing up, and Sisco's finally got his name and becomes Vibe.

[Pex]

New episode!


Doctor Light was done really well and I hope she doesn't get ****ed up like the comic version of him/her always does.

The fact that Zoom sent her, knowing she is someone from Barry's past, proves that Zoom is Earth 2 Barry to me.

The literal blind date is reeeaaaally dumb and I hated it but it had a good ending, we got a hint at Aquaman showing up, and Sisco's finally got his name and becomes Vibe.

I liked that she realized he was blinded. As she said, she is a detective. Plot armor forces her not to determine Barry is Flash, but she's not a dummy otherwise. I appreciate they had her laugh it off instead of being all resentful about it. I more appreciate they got to finish the date instead of the common trope he has to end it abruptly to do hero stuff. They even alluded to that trope earlier when she jokingly expressed concerned about their date being interrupted because he has to do science stuff.

[LaZodiac]

I liked that she realized he was blinded. As she said, she is a detective. Plot armor forces her not to determine Barry is Flash, but she's not a dummy otherwise. I appreciate they had her laugh it off instead of being all resentful about it. I more appreciate they got to finish the date instead of the common trope he has to end it abruptly to do hero stuff. They even alluded to that trope earlier when she jokingly expressed concerned about their date being interrupted because he has to do science stuff.

YEah, I liked that. The end of the date was good, though the date itself was...just blaaaah. We're out of romantic drama since Iris knows so now we've gotta go through these motions now. At least it's not awful.

[Maelstrom]

Heh, got to love Cisco : "You know our Dr. Wells might have been evil, but you're just a diiii##"

[LaZodiac]

Heh, got to love Cisco : "You know our Dr. Wells might have been evil, but you're just a diiii##"

I feel like that line was improvised because of his inflection. Such a good line though.

[dancrilis]

Thinking about it I suspect that Zoom might be Joe West, just a hunch from his interaction with Well's daughter.

[themaque]

Thinking about it I suspect that Zoom might be Joe West, just a hunch from his interaction with Well's daughter.

I'm gonna say I agree.

Are we sure Killer Shark is DEAD? I could see him and Sand Demon still being alive just contained.

Thirded that best line was Cisco's comparisons to the quality of Well's character.

[LaZodiac]

I'm gonna say I agree.

Are we sure Killer Shark is DEAD? I could see him and Sand Demon still being alive just contained.

Thirded that best line was Cisco's comparisons to the quality of Well's character.

Sand Demon shattered into pieces. He's dead as hell.

[huttj509]

I'm gonna say I agree.

Are we sure Killer Shark is DEAD? I could see him and Sand Demon still being alive just contained.

Thirded that best line was Cisco's comparisons to the quality of Well's character.

I think they commented they don't have the budget this season to animate him. So yeah, King shark's dead for tax purposes.

[themaque]

Sand Demon shattered into pieces. He's dead as hell.

He's a sandman equivalent, who's to say he couldn't be shattered and re-hydrated?

Anyone else a little bothered by the characterization of Jay this past episode?

[Hytheter]

Sand Demon shattered into pieces. He's dead as hell.

He's made of sand though, "in pieces" is practically his default state.

[Ranxerox]

Anyone else a little bothered by the characterization of Jay this past episode?

Wells is just being jerk to Jay because a) Wells is a jerk, b) Wells feels feels extremely and deservedly guilty over something and he taking it out on Jay and c)Well's daughter is being held hostage by Zoom and he is willing to hurt everyone around him if it might lead to her rescue. The problem is that Jay is not the type to make excuses or try to shirk responsibility, so when you accuse him of stuff even unfairly he does a horrible job defending himself.

He left because he thinks Barry will get killed if he takes on Zoom and he did not want to encourage Barry to take a suicide mission by remaining part of Team Flash. Wells on the other hand, will gladly get Barry and the rest of the team killed if at the end of the day it gets his daughter out of Zoom's hands.

[LaZodiac]

He's a sandman equivalent, who's to say he couldn't be shattered and re-hydrated?

Anyone else a little bothered by the characterization of Jay this past episode?


He's made of sand though, "in pieces" is practically his default state.

I meant more the lightning bolt solidfying his body into glass and then him shattering. Kinda...hard to survive this.

Also yes Jay's become Dude Iris.

[Soepvork]

Not sure I like the (not so subtle): '(This) Kaitlyn is not Killer Snow a metahuman!'

[chainer1216]

Not sure I like the (not so subtle): '(This) Kaitlyn is not Killer Snow a metahuman!'



well considering that kaitlyns actress as said that she'll become killer frost in a future storyline I'm gonna assume well soon see earth2 evil super powered Kaitlyn Snow.

[Soepvork]

well considering that kaitlyns actress as said that she'll become killer frost in a future storyline I'm gonna assume well soon see earth2 evil super powered Kaitlyn Snow.

Sorry, I dont mean that I don't like that she's not meta, what I mean was that I don't like that the actually revealed it so blatantly and in an off-handed manner (rather than leaving it open for now)

[Metahuman1]

Note: King Shark is a shared Aquaman/Green Arrow villain. Just throwing that out there.




I'm wondering how long it's gonna be before Wally West wanders in and has an accident that makes him a speedster.

[BWR]

Probably very soon, what with the revelation that Iris has a (half?) brother out there only a few years younger than her.

[comicshorse]

Note: King Shark is a shared Aquaman/Green Arrow villain. Just throwing that out there.


I thought he was a Superboy villain

[Drakeburn]

I thought he was a Superboy villain

I actually thought that too.



As for Wally West becoming the Flash, I'd like to see how that happens. I'd be curious to know why he would show up in Central City, or how he's going to get his powers, since Professor Zoom created the incident that gave Barry Allen his superpowers. :smallconfused:

This I definitely have to see.

[Starbuck_II]

King Shark is immortal so he will return, but likely takes a long time with his death being what it was.

[Ranxerox]

King Shark is immortal so he will return, but likely takes a long time with his death being what it was.

Yes, death by financial constraints is a particularly gruesome way to go,

[Zmeoaice]

So they plan to use Linda to trap Zoom? Are they forgetting about the meta-human detector which Zoom might have?

Dr. Light's plan was absolutely idiotic though. "I'm going to kill my alternate universe self in front of a bunch of people and take her place! It's brilliant!"

[LaZodiac]

So they plan to use Linda to trap Zoom? Are they forgetting about the meta-human detector which Zoom might have?

Dr. Light's plan was absolutely idiotic though. "I'm going to kill my alternate universe self in front of a bunch of people and take her place! It's brilliant!"

No they're using the ACTUAL Dr Light, is my understanding.

Also I imagine this Dr Light is as mentally troubled as all the other ones...she just hasn't been assaulted horribly yet.

[themaque]

So they plan to use Linda to trap Zoom? Are they forgetting about the meta-human detector which Zoom might have?

Dr. Light's plan was absolutely idiotic though. "I'm going to kill my alternate universe self in front of a bunch of people and take her place! It's brilliant!"

Oh No, I think that the plan is coocoo for coco puffs as presented, but where did everyone seem to get the exact same plan? It might be something ZOOM said or did that we just don't have details for yet.

Zoom MAY have a detector, but Team Flash DOES have the inventor of the detector. If anyone could fool it he could. We shall see if that is even a point they bring up.

[Lizard Lord]

So they plan to use Linda to trap Zoom? Are they forgetting about the meta-human detector which Zoom might have?

Dr. Light's plan was absolutely idiotic though. "I'm going to kill my alternate universe self in front of a bunch of people and take her place! It's brilliant!"

I don't think her plan was to take her alternate's place. Atom Smasher didn't seem interested in taking his alternates place, and Dr. Light seemed like the sort of person that would only kill if she thinks the alternative is to be killed. I am guessing there is some sort of comic book science quantum physics reason for why the breachers are killing their doubles that has yet to be revealed.

[Hopeless]

Probably Zoom told them they had a limited time there unless they killed their alternate.

If he's as nasty as Jay described then I can see him playing that sort of mind game so they'd be able to kill Barry when they had the chance.

Speaking of which did they reveal if there was an alternate of Jay in the Flash's Earth?

[LaZodiac]

New episode!

Dr Light escapes by being naked, Sisco spies info on Wells-2, they try to trick Zoom with Linda and...Zoom ****ing destroys everyone and thing.

Reverse Flash was never a really exciting villain, not REALLY, if in part because I didn't start with the show when it first started...but Zoom is pretty damn effective.

[Pex]

I do not for one second think it's just a mere coincidence that Barry's legs are paralyzed (temporarily, I'm sure, right guys? Right? :smalleek:) just like Dr. Wells was allegedly last season. Add in the fact Zoom knew exactly where to go around the city to rub it in he defeated Flash. Yeah, Zoom is Earth 2 Barry.

Edit: I accept it was story appropriate when Flash had his shirt off this episode. :smalltongue:

[BWR]

Good episode. Zoom was brutal. Silly reasoning by Cisco that freefall would negate Zoom's speed advantage - he could still hit faster even if they were moving the same speed downwards. Loved the lightning return.


Add in the fact Zoom knew exactly where to go around the city to rub it in he defeated Flash. Yeah, Zoom is Earth 2 Barry.

Eh, it doesn't take Barry to guess that the best way to rub in your superiority over the Flash is to show off at the news and the local police. It may still turn out to be Barry but I wouldn't make that guess based on this.

[BlueHerring]

Good episode. Zoom was brutal. Silly reasoning by Cisco that freefall would negate Zoom's speed advantage - he could still hit faster even if they were moving the same speed downwards. Loved the lightning return.



Eh, it doesn't take Barry to guess that the best way to rub in your superiority over the Flash is to show off at the news and the local police. It may still turn out to be Barry but I wouldn't make that guess based on this.

Well, yeah, but to do that at the right precinct and the right newspaper company? A bit suspicious.

[Hopeless]

Well, yeah, but to do that at the right precinct and the right newspaper company? A bit suspicious.

If for example he has Eddie recovering in a medical ward providing him intel on Barry then he could easily find this out wouldn't he?

And no this isn't a spoiler or it would have been spoilered now wouldn't it?!:smallannoyed:

[Drakeburn]

Wow, Zoom is probably the most intense villain of the Flash I've ever seen (despite the fact that he/it caught a lightning bolt like he's the greek god Zeus). This thing is practically a monster compared to Professor Zoom. :smalleek:

I can't help but to suspect that Zoom is somehow spying on Team Flash somehow. Not only does he know that they set a trap for him, but that they also used Linda as bait. Does anybody have a guess on how that would be possible? :smallconfused:

[LaZodiac]

Wow, Zoom is probably the most intense villain of the Flash I've ever seen (despite the fact that he/it caught a lightning bolt like he's the greek god Zeus). This thing is practically a monster compared to Professor Zoom. :smalleek:

I can't help but to suspect that Zoom is somehow spying on Team Flash somehow. Not only does he know that they set a trap for him, but that they also used Linda as bait. Does anybody have a guess on how that would be possible? :smallconfused:

Well we know that he knew Linda was his girlfriend, ex or otherwise. That's why he sent Dr Light. But the breaches didn't happen until after Eddie offed himself. The current main theory, and the most reasonable, is that Zoom is Earth-2 Barry. Thus why he knew they used Linda as bait (probably something involving her act, or something she said. No one is "loyal" to Zoom, after all.) and why he knows all their secrets. He knows how Barry works because he IS Barry.

[Drakeburn]

Well we know that he knew Linda was his girlfriend, ex or otherwise. That's why he sent Dr Light. But the breaches didn't happen until after Eddie offed himself. The current main theory, and the most reasonable, is that Zoom is Earth-2 Barry. Thus why he knew they used Linda as bait (probably something involving her act, or something she said. No one is "loyal" to Zoom, after all.) and why he knows all their secrets. He knows how Barry works because he IS Barry.

For some reason, I'm not buying the theory that Zoom is Earth 2 Barry Allen. :smallannoyed:
Harrison Wells (from Earth 1 and 2) knew what the Flash was capable of, and so was Jay Garrick. So why couldn't there be another person who's just as knowledgeable of the Flash's abilities as those three?

[gomipile]

For some reason, I'm not buying the theory that Zoom is Earth 2 Barry Allen. :smallannoyed:
Harrison Wells (from Earth 1 and 2) knew what the Flash was capable of, and so was Jay Garrick. So why couldn't there be another person who's just as knowledgeable of the Flash's abilities as those three?


My inner comic book geek wants Zoom to be Earth 2's Eobard Thawne. Show-wise, I think he'll probably be Earth 2's Barry or Joe, though.

[LaZodiac]

For some reason, I'm not buying the theory that Zoom is Earth 2 Barry Allen. :smallannoyed:
Harrison Wells (from Earth 1 and 2) knew what the Flash was capable of, and so was Jay Garrick. So why couldn't there be another person who's just as knowledgeable of the Flash's abilities as those three?

Thaun and Wells know his powers because they're a speedster who's fought him for many years and a super science man. Jay Garrick is his universe's Flash, of course he'd know what Barry is capable of. Zoom JUST being "another speedster" would make sense...but it'd also be boring, and it wouldn't explain how he knew Dr Light would cause Barry to mess up like that. THAT is why it can't be "just another speedster".

[Pex]

They could go the irony route, in show and meta, to have Zoom be Earth 2 Barry's father, John Wesley Shipp, the "first" Flash.

[Zmeoaice]

I'm not sure if Lightning Catching is a bigger break from reality than frozen lasers. At least they have the excuse of "Speed force did it"

[Drakeburn]

I'm not sure if Lightning Catching is a bigger break from reality than frozen lasers. At least they have the excuse of "Speed force did it"

I know what you mean. :smallsigh:
Although it is safe to say that if the Flash knows how to manipulate the electricity he's generating, than I'd imagine Zoom knows how to do the same as well.


Thawne and Wells know his powers because they're a speedster who's fought him for many years and a super science man. Jay Garrick is his universe's Flash, of course he'd know what Barry is capable of. Zoom JUST being "another speedster" would make sense...but it'd also be boring, and it wouldn't explain how he knew Dr Light would cause Barry to mess up like that. THAT is why it can't be "just another speedster".

But what about the Harrison Wells from Earth 2? How would he know how the speed force works? :smallconfused:
But isn't Zoom "just another speedster" as well? :smalltongue:

[Zmeoaice]

it wouldn't explain how he knew Dr Light would cause Barry to mess up like that.

It's possible that he didn't know this, and just sent a random super villain who just happened to look like someone Barry knew.

[LaZodiac]

But what about the Harrison Wells from Earth 2? How would he know how the speed force works? :smallconfused:
But isn't Zoom "just another speedster" as well? :smalltongue:

I explained that. He's a super scientist. He discovered a way to detect Metahumans! Considering the fact that he's got a big beef with Jay, I wouldn't be surprised if Wells was his Lex Luthor figure.

I'm saying Zoom is MORE then just another speedster.


It's possible that he didn't know this, and just sent a random super villain who just happened to look like someone Barry knew.

I'm honestly willing to bet Wells-2's idea that Zoom sent someone Barry knew on purpose is correct. Like we saw, Dr Light isn't a killer. She was disgusted by the fact that she DID kill someone.

[Hopeless]

I explained that. He's a super scientist. He discovered a way to detect Metahumans! Considering the fact that he's got a big beef with Jay, I wouldn't be surprised if Wells was his Lex Luthor figure.

I'm saying Zoom is MORE then just another speedster.



I'm honestly willing to bet Wells-2's idea that Zoom sent someone Barry knew on purpose is correct. Like we saw, Dr Light isn't a killer. She was disgusted by the fact that she DID kill someone.

Wasn't there a clip where Wells-2 claimed to have created Zoom?

You know last season we learned Grodd was experimented on as part of a military program.

Eobard freed Grodd because he viewed Grodd as someone he sympathised with.

Wells-2 evidently has an antagonistic relation ship with Jay very similar to Lex Luthor's reaction to Superman so lets assume he went the Bizarro Superman route and created a mix between Bizarro Flash and Metallo?

What did Zoom plunge into Barry's chest that incapacitated him?

Was it just me or did he turn everything Wells-2 planned against them almost as if he fully expected what Wells-2 would do?

Maybe Zoom needs to steal the speed from speedsters to retain his abilities sort of like why Eobard arranged for Barry to get his powers 5 years earlier than when it should have happened?

Ooh wasn't Lex responsible for creating the Parasite?:smalleek:
Maybe that's why he's seeking to be the only speedster he literally is a speed vampire which would explain how he stole Jay's powers wouldn't it?!

[Lizard Lord]

[spoiler]What did Zoom plunge into Barry's chest that incapacitated him?

Was it just me or did he turn everything Wells-2 planned against them almost as if he fully expected what Wells-2 would do?

Maybe Zoom needs to steal the speed from speedsters to retain his abilities sort of like why Eobard arranged for Barry to get his powers 5 years earlier than when it should have happened?

Ooh wasn't Lex responsible for creating the Parasite?:smalleek:
Maybe that's why he's seeking to be the only speedster he literally is a speed vampire which would explain how he stole Jay's powers wouldn't it?!

Your second question answers your first. Wells tried to shoot Zoom with his anti-speedster formula but Zoom caught it in midair and plunged it into Barry. Then Zoom got hit with a second dosage anyways and sped off anyways.

[Sliver]

Your second question answers your first. Wells tried to shoot Zoom with his anti-speedster formula but Zoom caught it in midair and plunged it into Barry. Then Zoom got hit with a second dosage anyways and sped off anyways.

I think that Barry got hit with two syringes, one that he tried to stick into Zoom while falling, and the other that Wells shot at Zoom.

But I think Hopeless asked about the part where Zoom stuck his claw into Berry, the same way that Wells killed Cisco in the aborted timeline.

[Friv]

My current theory is that Zoom is Earth-2's Henry Allen, not Barry Allen, and that the cute radio bit about Robert Queen being the Arrow on Earth-2 is foreshadowing this. I have no proof, but it would be another kick in the teeth.

I also think Zoom might not have known about the trap ahead of time, he just did some scouting. He didn't show up in person until after they sent Flash's emblem to him, and then a lot of time passed. I think that, like Jay, he would have lost his speed in Earth-1, but he was able to use something that had been in proximity to the Flash for a long time to adapt and be able to use his speed away from the breaches.

[Hopeless]

My current theory is that Zoom is Earth-2's Henry Allen, not Barry Allen, and that the cute radio bit about Robert Queen being the Arrow on Earth-2 is foreshadowing this. I have no proof, but it would be another kick in the teeth.

I also think Zoom might not have known about the trap ahead of time, he just did some scouting. He didn't show up in person until after they sent Flash's emblem to him, and then a lot of time passed. I think that, like Jay, he would have lost his speed in Earth-1, but he was able to use something that had been in proximity to the Flash for a long time to adapt and be able to use his speed away from the breaches.

Oh when Light threw the Flash's emblem through the portal he sucked the speed force it retained from being worn by Barry for god knows how long and that's why Zoom retained his super speed?

That would mean he was directly draining Barry of his speed powers just as we saw in Earth 2 when Zoom had Jay at his mercy?

Did they explain how Jay crossed into Earth 1?

By that I mean was he thrown by Zoom?

[Sliver]

Did they explain how Jay crossed into Earth 1?

By that I mean was he thrown by Zoom?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRNIbtOn4EY

[Hopeless]

OH!

Thanks for the link!

So Jay was saved by the breach?:smallwink:

Hmm Zoom used the same attack on Barry so ordinarily he should be depowered unless that was a side effect of Jay crossing through the breach... maybe if Barry is the source of the speed force then maybe that's why Zoom's tactic can only be temporary unless Zoom kills Barry?

if Zoom is Barry's undead father then that may explain this part.

[Zmeoaice]

Does anyone think Grodd sounds too similar to Zoom?

[thorgrim29]

Man, Zoom is one scary dude. Patty is adorable (where do you get one of those?), Linda was delightfully bad, and Wells 2.0 is still a ****, but they can probably trust him because I don't think he'd believe Zoom if he offered him a deal. Wonder where Dr Light went?

I gotta say, I am liking this season more than season 1 so far. I do wish Firestorm was a more core team member because Stein is wonderful (I wonder if American Richard Dawkins was the goal or a happy coincidence?) though I suppose that's what Legends of Tomorrow is for.

I wonder if Cisco will get powers more in line with his comic counterpart at some point and also how/when Caitlin will become Killer Frost.

[themaque]

[QUOTE=Pex;20060981]I do not for one second think it's just a mere coincidence that Barry's legs are paralyzed (temporarily, I'm sure, right guys? Right? :smalleek:) just like Dr. Wells was allegedly last season. Add in the fact Zoom knew exactly where to go around the city to rub it in he defeated Flash. Yeah, Zoom is Earth 2 Barry.
[QUOTE]

The answer to this is very simple..

The evil powers of budgetary constraints. Why build a whole new set when you already have one precinct and news room already created and established in the audiences mind?

I'm curious when jay will be returning and how he will work around saying "I told you so".

[LaZodiac]

The answer to this is very simple..

The evil powers of budgetary constraints. Why build a whole new set when you already have one precinct and news room already created and established in the audiences mind?

I'm curious when jay will be returning and how he will work around saying "I told you so".

Yes yes that's a valid meta (heh) reason, but there could be a reason in universe as well. Don't be so cynical man.

[Hytheter]

I wonder...how/when Caitlin will become Killer Frost.

...spoilers?

[thorgrim29]

It's hardly a secret, I've seen it mentioned in pretty much every article about the series that mentioned her

[Pex]

It's hardly a secret, I've seen it mentioned in pretty much every article about the series that mentioned her

For those of us who haven't read the comic, it's news to us. I hadn't known the sidekicks of the show are actually in the comics. I just know Flash. I only know of Star Labs from the previous Flash tv show.

[Zmeoaice]

I think Killer Frost will be Caitlyn from earth-2

[themaque]

For those of us who haven't read the comic, it's news to us. I hadn't known the sidekicks of the show are actually in the comics. I just know Flash. I only know of Star Labs from the previous Flash tv show.

They also showed her with Ice Powers in the flashes (heh) of alternate futures/dimensions at the conclusion of season 1.

[LaZodiac]

New episode!

We get some interesting moments with Grodd, who is the best. Sadly we also pitch him out of this Earth. Good plan though, too bad Wells-2 isn't an ******* or it would of gone a lot smoother...somehow. That sounds silly now that I think about it.

We've got some hints that a second Event will happen and the coffee shop girl will...become Hawk-girl which actually kind of rules? We also solved the whole "got crippled" thing. Something I need to point out is how apparently Caitlin's last name is Snow and wow that's...unsubtle if she apparently becomes a frost powered person.

Also it's pretty obvious that Wells-2 made the Grodd of his world. He's just not a good Dad...though he also made Gorilla City I guess? Though I wonder how Grodd is going to react to the fact that an alternate version of him is out here.

All in all, a good episode. Though apparently starting December we're gonna get dumb crossover episodes with Arrow. I won't be watching those purely due to lack of time, but feel free to talk about them here so we don't miss the plot!

Also where is Jay didn't he stay on Earth-1?

[The New Bruceski]

The crossover episodes are the lead-in to the new show, so you may want to watch them. CW puts them up for free on their website, no need to see them live or right away.

[LaZodiac]

The crossover episodes are the lead-in to the new show, so you may want to watch them. CW puts them up for free on their website, no need to see them live or right away.

They do? Are those available in Canada?

Also I...look I like The Flash but The Arrow is bad, I'm not sure I'll have the time or desire to keep up with the new show. But I'll give it a chance.

[The New Bruceski]

They do? Are those available in Canada?


http://www.cwtv.com/shows/the-flash/gorilla-warfare/?play=d473e04f-4473-4892-869b-4f5a1f38e1f4

I don't know if Canada can access them, but there's an easy way to find out. Shows tend to go up a few hours after they air, none of this "need to wait a week" that other broadcast networks do.

[LaZodiac]

http://www.cwtv.com/shows/the-flash/gorilla-warfare/?play=d473e04f-4473-4892-869b-4f5a1f38e1f4

I don't know if Canada can access them, but there's an easy way to find out. Shows tend to go up a few hours after they air, none of this "need to wait a week" that other broadcast networks do.

Nope, not available up here v_v

[thorgrim29]

Man broadcasting laws suck... It's not like Global or Space is going to put those on their websites...

[Ranxerox]

They do? Are those available in Canada?

Also I...look I like The Flash but The Arrow is bad, I'm not sure I'll have the time or desire to keep up with the new show. But I'll give it a chance.

It looks like LoT will be premiering during the mid-season break so at least at first time shouldn't be an issue. You should have ample time to figure out whether you like it before it is competing with a bunch of other shows.

[themaque]

This new show also doesn't seem to have the same Theme or feeling as Arrow. So I'm anxious to see how it turns out. It's obviously the TV version of the Justice League. (since they are reserving that name for the Movie itself)

I haven't been able to get into Arrow, and myself was going "ugh, I guess I'm watching this week."

[Zmeoaice]

So I'm guessing that the upcoming episode of the Flas will be the second part of the 2 part episode, with Arrow's "Legends of Yesterday" being the first part (Or is it the other way around)

Either way I hope they don't reference too much Arrow stuff because I don't watch that show.

[Sliver]

So I'm guessing that the upcoming episode of the Flas will be the second part of the 2 part episode, with Arrow's "Legends of Yesterday" being the first part (Or is it the other way around)

Either way I hope they don't reference too much Arrow stuff because I don't watch that show.

Flash's "Legends of Today" airs a day before the Arrow's "Legend of Yesterday", so I think Flash's episode is the first part.

[Admiral Squish]

I'm not sure if I like the Flash anymore. I've been watching it since it started, it's a cool concept, I like the characters, and I like the story-line in general. But it's starting to do a few things I'm really not fond of.

For one, it's become extremely formulaic in the worst possible place in the episodes. The climactic encounter. Flash and gang come up with a plan. The initial attempt fails. Flash doubts himself, jeopardizing the battle. Somebody leans into the mic and delivers an impassioned speech to motivate Flash. Flash, motivated, redoubles his efforts and defeats the bad guy. It's disappointing.

For another, it's crossing the streams with Arrow too much. I tried to watch Arrow, I did, but I couldn't get through the second season. And yet, they keep having big crossover events, and characters randomly hop from one show to the other. When they show up, I don't know anything about them, how they fit into the world, I'm not emotionally invested in them... So when things happen, I can't really connect with them. Forcing these connections is the same thing that's been killing comics. I want to watch this show, but it's starting to feel like I HAVE to watch arrow if I want to know what's going on, and I'm not going to add an hour-long show I don't actually enjoy to my DVR routine just so I can enjoy this show a little more. If they want to connect the stories, loosely, that's fine, just don't make it mandatory in order for me to enjoy the show I actually want to watch.

And the one that's really bugging me lately: It's too slow. Or, perhaps, too long. When you develop a story, there are plot points you have to hit to tell that story. The thing is, a plot point is just that, a tiny little point, a little nugget of information you must convey to the audience. Think of it like a racing game where you have to hit checkpoints to finish the race. You can do whatever you want between those checkpoints, but you have to hit them in order to complete it. The writers seem to be taking their sweet time, driving slow and making SURE they don't miss them. And sure, going faster means it's harder to steer. But driving slow, lingering between points, and roaming around isn't nearly as satisfying as putting the hammer down and beating the course record. They're stretching a story that could have easily fit into a half hour into an hour-long slot, and it's dragging because of that. Especially in the emotional scenes. The characters just keep taking long, dramatic pauses, giving each other meaningful looks, and repeating what they've said a dozen times in other episodes. Honestly, there are times during the slower scenes where I'll fast forward to get to an actual development. Like, I know where this scene is going, I'm not gonna sit around and watch somebody sigh and mope around for another full minute.

[LaZodiac]

New episode!

The bits involving Arrow centric stuff where bad and the bits involving Flash centric stuff where good. Not a surprise here. I really hope Kendra tells destiny to screw off and stays with Sisco though. Vandal Savage is pretty cool, though I don't get the whole "consumes the souls of the bird warriors" thing.

[Lizard Lord]

I am watching the episode on Hulu right now and have just got past the "Previously" segment, but I had to pause it to say that I officially want no more crossovers with Flash and Arrow if bribing someone to say they "lost the baby" (and no, I don't care what the context is) is what Arrow brings to my wacky fun super hero show. :smalleek::smallsigh::smallfurious::smallannoyed:: smallmad:

Edit: And...I am both relieved and annoyed that there was no actual point in mentioning it. :smallsigh:

[huttj509]

Edit: And...I am both relieved and annoyed that there was no actual point in mentioning it. :smallsigh:

End of episode in the coffee shop. That's Queen's son and ex-fiancee.

[The New Bruceski]

End of episode in the coffee shop. That's Queen's son and ex-fiancee.

Nah, Ollie stares slackjawed at women and their kids moving in slo-mo all the time.

[LaZodiac]

I am watching the episode on Hulu right now and have just got past the "Previously" segment, but I had to pause it to say that I officially want no more crossovers with Flash and Arrow if bribing someone to say they "lost the baby" (and no, I don't care what the context is) is what Arrow brings to my wacky fun super hero show. :smalleek::smallsigh::smallfurious::smallannoyed:: smallmad:

Edit: And...I am both relieved and annoyed that there was no actual point in mentioning it. :smallsigh:

Spoilers: Arrow is bad. Arrow is REALLY BAD. You can tell when something Arrow related shows up because it is very bad. The only part I liked that explicitly involved Arrow was him seeing how well loved The Flash is and getting supremely owned over and over again emotionally by this fact. The Arrow is BAD.

[Dragonexx]

To be honest, I actually like season 4 so far. The villain is very entertaining, and I like Ollie and Felicities relationship.

[Zmeoaice]

I haven't seen a single episode of Arrow, and don't plan to, what do I need to know before watching Legends of Today?

[Dragonexx]

Not much really. Flash and Arrow already know each other (Barry debuted on Arrow). Honestly, If you don't want to watch the show, then there's no reason to. It will spare you the awfulness that is the latter half of season 3.

[HardcoreD&Dgirl]

I like and watch both shows. I didn't like this crossover so far. It was both too rushed and not well written.

Merlyn was completely out of character.

Flash running to arrow for help felt sooo forced.

I'm getting sick of people walking into star labs.

I didn't like the sisco could 'pick up' Kendra back a few shows ago, but lived with it assuming something would come of it for the cross over... and blah. They could have skiped them dating entirely, had her get attacked well barry and crew were leaving, and still have team flash save her. That could have been last weeks show, then now we can have them go to Ollie AFTER savage did something really magical...

this felt forced. This is the worst superheros show of the year, and that's saying a lot compared to Gotham.

Ollie running into his son was the only part I really liked last night.

[Pex]

I'm not sure if I like the Flash anymore. I've been watching it since it started, it's a cool concept, I like the characters, and I like the story-line in general. But it's starting to do a few things I'm really not fond of.

For one, it's become extremely formulaic in the worst possible place in the episodes. The climactic encounter. Flash and gang come up with a plan. The initial attempt fails. Flash doubts himself, jeopardizing the battle. Somebody leans into the mic and delivers an impassioned speech to motivate Flash. Flash, motivated, redoubles his efforts and defeats the bad guy. It's disappointing.

For another, it's crossing the streams with Arrow too much. I tried to watch Arrow, I did, but I couldn't get through the second season. And yet, they keep having big crossover events, and characters randomly hop from one show to the other. When they show up, I don't know anything about them, how they fit into the world, I'm not emotionally invested in them... So when things happen, I can't really connect with them. Forcing these connections is the same thing that's been killing comics. I want to watch this show, but it's starting to feel like I HAVE to watch arrow if I want to know what's going on, and I'm not going to add an hour-long show I don't actually enjoy to my DVR routine just so I can enjoy this show a little more. If they want to connect the stories, loosely, that's fine, just don't make it mandatory in order for me to enjoy the show I actually want to watch.

And the one that's really bugging me lately: It's too slow. Or, perhaps, too long. When you develop a story, there are plot points you have to hit to tell that story. The thing is, a plot point is just that, a tiny little point, a little nugget of information you must convey to the audience. Think of it like a racing game where you have to hit checkpoints to finish the race. You can do whatever you want between those checkpoints, but you have to hit them in order to complete it. The writers seem to be taking their sweet time, driving slow and making SURE they don't miss them. And sure, going faster means it's harder to steer. But driving slow, lingering between points, and roaming around isn't nearly as satisfying as putting the hammer down and beating the course record. They're stretching a story that could have easily fit into a half hour into an hour-long slot, and it's dragging because of that. Especially in the emotional scenes. The characters just keep taking long, dramatic pauses, giving each other meaningful looks, and repeating what they've said a dozen times in other episodes. Honestly, there are times during the slower scenes where I'll fast forward to get to an actual development. Like, I know where this scene is going, I'm not gonna sit around and watch somebody sigh and mope around for another full minute.

If you spend any more time in my head using my thoughts I'll have to charge you rent.
:smallbiggrin:

[BWR]

This episode seemed really forced and rushed, especialy Hawkgirl's sudden acceptance. Still, I'm looking forward to LoT. I'm hoping it will be more like Flash than Arrow

[chainer1216]

When Barry and felicity are talking about earth-2 ollie being bald and dumpy, all I could think about was how they were joking about a dead kid :(

[LaZodiac]

When Barry and felicity are talking about earth-2 ollie being bald and dumpy, all I could think about was how they were joking about a dead kid :(

...like I said everything about Arrow is just bad. They can't even make jokes about Earth-2 Arrow because he's a dead child and that's awful. Oliver Queen your life sucks. Barry-2 may be a horrific Speedster monster but at least he's alive.

But yeah I apologize if I've **** too much on Arrow. It just seems really bad in comparision to Flash and Agents of Shield. But looking at Supergirl and, dear god the Batman v. Superman trailer that just came out today, I can safely say that Arrow's not bad bad it's just written weird.

[Kittenwolf]

WHHHHHHHYYYYYYYYYY????!!!!!!


WHY?? Why would you waste an A-list supervillain like Vandal Savage like that? Turning him into some quasi-mystical superbeing with vague powers shoehorned into someone else's origin story?

There was absolutely zero reason to not use Hath-Set like the source material, rather than turning a genuinely scary character into a D-list monster of the week.

[Zmeoaice]

Well he's not the "monster of the week", they're setting him up for Legends of Tomorrow.

[thorgrim29]

I liked the crossover, Vandal Savage was a bit odd and I have no idea why Captain jack is an evil ninja but eh whatever. On that note, is it too early to propose titles for the Legends of Tomorrow thread? If not I propose Legends of Tomorrow, Rory's a Time Agent now.

[LaZodiac]

Oh so I also watched the second half of this cross over. I'm curious what bad **** will happen to make time feel "satisfied" after Barry's ****ing with time again. It's a shame Kendra is no longer gonna be with Sisco cause they were cute together.

[HardcoreD&Dgirl]

WHHHHHHHYYYYYYYYYY????!!!!!!


WHY?? Why would you waste an A-list supervillain like Vandal Savage like that? Turning him into some quasi-mystical superbeing with vague powers shoehorned into someone else's origin story?

There was absolutely zero reason to not use Hath-Set like the source material, rather than turning a genuinely scary character into a D-list monster of the week.


The worst part is, they could with 2-3 very minor dialog changes have fixed it...
"So he is 4,000 years old?"
"No, we are, he was Ancient when he was my father's advisor..."

[BWR]

The worst part is, they could with 2-3 very minor dialog changes have fixed it...
"So he is 4,000 years old?"
"No, we are, he was Ancient when he was my father's advisor..."

Did Savage actually say he was only 4000 years old? If not he could still be the older VS we know and Hall and the League of Assassins just don't know any better.

[The New Bruceski]

I liked the crossover, Vandal Savage was a bit odd and I have no idea why Captain jack is an evil ninja but eh whatever. On that note, is it too early to propose titles for the Legends of Tomorrow thread? If not I propose Legends of Tomorrow, Rory's a Time Agent now.

Why Captain Jack is an evil ninja:
Malcom Merlyn used to be a loving family man, father of Oliver Queen's best friend Tommy Merlyn. His wife ran a free clinic in the Shades Glades, and was killed during a mugging. This broke Malcom, and he looked for a way to get revenge, to eliminate the crime and gang violence that plagued Starling City. He found the League of Assassins, an organization of ninjas. He came back with an earthquake machine to destroy the Glades (against the wished of the League's leader, Raesh al'Ghul), Oliver stopped him, but Tommy died during the attempt, breaking Malcom further. Then the League comes hunting Merlyn but it turns out that he's the father of Oliver's sister Thea, so he protects Malcom. In so doing he fights Raesh, loses, gets stabbed, falls off a cliff, "gets better" and Raesh says "this kid has moxie, let's have him replace me in the League."

So then you have a whole bunch of "tempted by the darkness" plot stuff, Oliver runs around being emo, and in the end he fights Raesh, kills him, and makes Merlyn leader of the League because WHY IS THAT A GOOD IDEA? So now Merlyn plays a "I'm not a nice guy but family is family and this city's your turf" role that mostly involves coming in from time to time with advice like "you'll stop feeling bad if you kill people" or "don't do this thing we both know you're going to do anyway, no I won't help you despite me wanting this guy dead as much as you do."

Did I forget anything?

[Kittenwolf]

Did Savage actually say he was only 4000 years old? If not he could still be the older VS we know and Hall and the League of Assassins just don't know any better.

Savage doesn't say he's 4000 years old from memory, but he *does* say that his life force is tied to the Hawks, and he'll die without killing them and stealing their life force.

[thorgrim29]

Why Captain Jack is an evil ninja:
Malcom Merlyn used to be a loving family man, father of Oliver Queen's best friend Tommy Merlyn. His wife ran a free clinic in the Shades Glades, and was killed during a mugging. This broke Malcom, and he looked for a way to get revenge, to eliminate the crime and gang violence that plagued Starling City. He found the League of Assassins, an organization of ninjas. He came back with an earthquake machine to destroy the Glades (against the wished of the League's leader, Raesh al'Ghul), Oliver stopped him, but Tommy died during the attempt, breaking Malcom further. Then the League comes hunting Merlyn but it turns out that he's the father of Oliver's sister Thea, so he protects Malcom. In so doing he fights Raesh, loses, gets stabbed, falls off a cliff, "gets better" and Raesh says "this kid has moxie, let's have him replace me in the League."

So then you have a whole bunch of "tempted by the darkness" plot stuff, Oliver runs around being emo, and in the end he fights Raesh, kills him, and makes Merlyn leader of the League because WHY IS THAT A GOOD IDEA? So now Merlyn plays a "I'm not a nice guy but family is family and this city's your turf" role that mostly involves coming in from time to time with advice like "you'll stop feeling bad if you kill people" or "don't do this thing we both know you're going to do anyway, no I won't help you despite me wanting this guy dead as much as you do."

Did I forget anything?

Wow, arrow sounds like a bummer.

[LaZodiac]

Wow, arrow sounds like a bummer.

Reminder that in Season 1 of Arrow, Oliver killed the **** out of a lot of people. There's a reason people are like "...yeah no Arrow is a bad show". It's bummer central.

[thorgrim29]

I don't mind heroes killing people. Hell, I'm still watching Supernatural 10 seasons in (every time I think I'm done an episode like Fan Fiction comes along and convinces me to stay on) and I love Stargate. I just like my brooding darkness shows to be a bit more grounded.

[themaque]

Possibly Pedantic question on the second part of this 2 parter


Anyone else find it odd that Barry didn't grab the arrow with Vandal's blood on it? They run blood tests on EVERYBODY in the Flash but this time, when he is clearly somehow super powered, he doesn't? It is because it was ARROW episode and they don't do that?


and I'm actually really looking forward to seeing tonight's episode because I still geek out over Mark Hamil's Trickster.

(I'm totally convinced it's why Joker and Harley exist as they did in the Batman cartoon)

[LaZodiac]

New episode!

Actually pretty good one too. I like the interaction between Wizard, Cold, and Trickster. It's also just a blast to have The Trickster back in the first place. I feel like a lot of the Christmas themed banter was a liiiittle forced, but did actually work. Especially with Trickster (again).

I also really like the hints of Cold becoming a good guy, because it's super great and I feel like someone with a cold gun working with a speedster would be really good and sensible a combo (shoot a path of ice into the air for them to have a place to run, for example).

That said some of it was kind of bad. Worst line of the episode is the cop lady saying "I'm seeing someone" when Flash tells her to hold on. Very comicbooky though so I can't complain that much?

The solution to the bombs is uh...not possible by any degree of science I think but hey dimensional vortexes and stuff who knows how this stuff really works! Still, a good episode and no tidal wave destroying the city again. We also got a nice tense moment with Patty (I forgot her name briefly above sorry).

We've also got some interesting looks at Zoom ****ing with Wells. We also know what Zoom's goal is: eating Speedsters.

So yeah in summery, good episode with some clunky moments but overall still quite good. Like most of The Flash honestly, except when it's crossovering with Arrow.

EDIT: @Maque: Probably because something about what he's done gives them reason to believe he isn't a Meta-human. It's dumb, and I personally blame the weird kinda error on Arrorw's "Arrow-ness". Would of been cool if they did though.

[themaque]

New episode!

EDIT: @Maque: Probably because something about what he's done gives them reason to believe he isn't a Meta-human. It's dumb, and I personally blame the weird kinda error on Arrorw's "Arrow-ness". Would of been cool if they did though.

They knew he was magic and thousands of years old at that point. I would TOTALLY be wanting to run a few tests on that!

I am going to blame "Arrow-ism" on that.

Who doesn't feel sorry for Cisco on this one? She chose... poorly.

I do love that he is still ready at ANY given time to whip out more tech toys at the slightest provocation.

[themaque]

Actually pretty good one too. I like the interaction between Wizard, Cold, and Trickster. It's also just a blast to have The Trickster back in the first place. I feel like a lot of the Christmas themed banter was a liiiittle forced, but did actually work. Especially with Trickster (again).

I also really like the hints of Cold becoming a good guy, because it's super great and I feel like someone with a cold gun working with a speedster would be really good and sensible a combo (shoot a path of ice into the air for them to have a place to run, for example).

That said some of it was kind of bad. Worst line of the episode is the cop lady saying "I'm seeing someone" when Flash tells her to hold on. Very comicbooky though so I can't complain that much?

The solution to the bombs is uh...not possible by any degree of science I think but hey dimensional vortexes and stuff who knows how this stuff really works! Still, a good episode and no tidal wave destroying the city again. We also got a nice tense moment with Patty (I forgot her name briefly above sorry).

We've also got some interesting looks at Zoom ****ing with Wells. We also know what Zoom's goal is: eating Speedsters.

So yeah in summery, good episode with some clunky moments but overall still quite good. Like most of The Flash honestly, except when it's crossovering with Arrow.


Yeah, I got to agree that it was more than a little forced when dealing with the <REDACTED> but other than that, highly enjoyable episode.

I'm glad to see Jay back. I LOVE Hamil as Trickster. I still love this version of Cold as he is very similar to many of my favorite portrayals of the character.

[thorgrim29]

Mark Hammil's Joker voice should be the voice of every villain with a sense of humour ever. Also, I wonder how much longer they're going to drag on keeping the secret from Patty (Patty doesn't know, so don't tell Patty, Patty doesn't know-oh-oh-oh-oh etc etc...)

[ryuplaneswalker]

So I started watching this series on netflix.

and I am in love with it, it is everything a good super hero show should be, the second episode opens with Barry saving people from a fire, as much as I enjoy Arrow, I think the writers of the flash hit the super hero head on the nail just a little better.

[LaZodiac]

Mark Hammil's Joker voice should be the voice of every villain with a sense of humour ever. Also, I wonder how much longer they're going to drag on keeping the secret from Patty (Patty doesn't know, so don't tell Patty, Patty doesn't know-oh-oh-oh-oh etc etc...)

The implication of the teaser for the show's next episode after it uh...comes back from winter break is they're gonna tell Patty but Zoom eats her.


So I started watching this series on netflix.

and I am in love with it, it is everything a good super hero show should be, the second episode opens with Barry saving people from a fire, as much as I enjoy Arrow, I think the writers of the flash hit the super hero head on the nail just a little better.

I agree, quite a lot. The Flash isn't the best show sometimes, but it does totally nail the feeling of being a super hero. Arrow is a man who is hated, or should be hated, or at the very least chastised for murdering a **** ton of people. The Flash is so popular in universe that he gets toys made from him. He also gets toys made from his villains, like Captain Cold. Which...I've pointed this out to some of my friends and they found this hilarious so just keep what I just said in mind. Captain Cold, a bank robber and murderer...has an action figure. Arrow, who IS AN ACTUAL HERO, despite his early career experimentation with horrible death murder arrows...does NOT. Flash is so popular that the toy companies are willing to hit the controversy they'd get for making an action figure out of a literal murderer. But not for making a toy out of Arrow.

[dancrilis]

Captain Cold, a bank robber and murderer...has an action figure.

Given that he has a known identity he likely gets royalties from it also (using his likeness and all), in fact maybe he is helping out the Flash solely due to milking that lovely superhero money as much as possible - he might have setup his own toy company knowing that Barry would not oppose and that few other people would risk supervillain vengeance, and he could make a packet from kids and there parents.

How is that for a villainous plot.

[LaZodiac]

Given that he has a known identity he likely gets royalties from it also (using his likeness and all), in fact maybe he is helping out the Flash solely due to milking that lovely superhero money as much as possible - he might have setup his own toy company knowing that Barry would not oppose and that few other people would risk supervillain vengeance, and he could make a packet from kids and there parents.

How is that for a villainous plot.

Well I mean he's been in jail for awhile. And I mean yes, he hasn't killed anyone (beyond Papa Snert) so I guess it could work? It...just seems kind of baffling a concept. Here is this guy who is a criminal, a hardened actual criminal...but they still gotta pay him for image royalty rights to make an action figure. I don't know it's just weird in a really funny kind of way, like if we got an action figure of like...Al Capone or something.

[dancrilis]

And I mean yes, he hasn't killed anyone (beyond Papa Snert)

One of my issues with the character is that yes he did - in his first episode he murdered some of his associates and also a guard (to memory), but that doesn't stop the potential plot.

[TheEmerged]

Biggest laugh for me, bar none, was...

"I can't let Christmas have all the fun!, followed by the Dreidel song. I have to admit I laughed loud enough I woke the dog up...

...this handling of the Wally issue. Jury's still out on whether or not they handle Wally himself well, but other than Wally no longer being any relations to Iris this was about the only way to go.

RE: Flash series getting superheroes right. Really, a part of me wanted to send a copy of Season 1 to the production team of "Batman vs Superman vs anyone else who happens to show up" but a> I'm not that rich and b> production was long done by that point anyway.

Memo to Warner - THIS is how to handle the characters, okay? This is what we want, and I'll tolerate the cheesy parts to get it. It's okay for there to be darkness, in fact there has to be something for the light to fight. But GrimDark's 15 minutes of fame should have ended sometime in the 90's, okay?

[everdeenkatniss]

New character could be an interesting addition to the team, but I'm worried her entire purpose is going to become the new "don't tell Iris" to lightningrod any mandatory CW drama.

[Pex]

Biggest laugh for me, bar none, was...

"I can't let Christmas have all the fun!, followed by the Dreidel song. I have to admit I laughed loud enough I woke the dog up...



Absolutely! All those dreidel bombs was just perfect.

[LaZodiac]

One of my issues with the character is that yes he did - in his first episode he murdered some of his associates and also a guard (to memory), but that doesn't stop the potential plot.

Sorry, early morning posting. I meant to specify "he hasn't killed anyone aside from his Dad after promising Barry he WOULDN'T" which kind of shows he is an honourable guy. He's still a murderer though based on his actions before then, so it's still hilarious to me that he gets an action figure and not an actual super hero.

[Zmeoaice]

Sorry, early morning posting. I meant to specify "he hasn't killed anyone aside from his Dad after promising Barry he WOULDN'T" which kind of shows he is an honourable guy. He's still a murderer though based on his actions before then, so it's still hilarious to me that he gets an action figure and not an actual super hero.

I'm pretty sure not-Cyclops begs to differ.

[themaque]

Sorry, early morning posting. I meant to specify "he hasn't killed anyone aside from his Dad after promising Barry he WOULDN'T" which kind of shows he is an honourable guy. He's still a murderer though based on his actions before then, so it's still hilarious to me that he gets an action figure and not an actual super hero.

If I remember correctly, He was actively trying to NOT murder people but his crew messed up first, so he messed them up.

Your killer with system of honor. Reservoir Dogs "Don't kill REAL people unless they get in my way" mentality.

[LaZodiac]

I'm pretty sure not-Cyclops begs to differ.

...right I forgot about that guy.


If I remember correctly, He was actively trying to NOT murder people but his crew messed up first, so he messed them up.

Your killer with system of honor. Reservoir Dogs "Don't kill REAL people unless they get in my way" mentality.

As I've said before I picked up this series at the time travel episode so thanks for telling me about how Captain Cold's first appearance went.

[ryuplaneswalker]

I agree, quite a lot. The Flash isn't the best show sometimes, but it does totally nail the feeling of being a super hero. Arrow is a man who is hated, or should be hated, or at the very least chastised for murdering a **** ton of people. The Flash is so popular in universe that he gets toys made from him. He also gets toys made from his villains, like Captain Cold. Which...I've pointed this out to some of my friends and they found this hilarious so just keep what I just said in mind. Captain Cold, a bank robber and murderer...has an action figure. Arrow, who IS AN ACTUAL HERO, despite his early career experimentation with horrible death murder arrows...does NOT. Flash is so popular that the toy companies are willing to hit the controversy they'd get for making an action figure out of a literal murderer. But not for making a toy out of Arrow.

The oddest thing about it all is, when Arrow showed up for that short Cameo in The First Episode, he did something more fun looking than I have seen him do in the first two entire seasons of the show with the Webslinging Arrow.

[LaZodiac]

The oddest thing about it all is, when Arrow showed up for that short Cameo in The First Episode, he did something more fun looking than I have seen him do in the first two entire seasons of the show with the Webslinging Arrow.

You can tell when The Flash writing team is handling a scene or episode because instead of being grim and dour it's got some jokes and enjoyment to it. Arrow is not a happy series.

[ryuplaneswalker]

It really isn't.

[Ranxerox]

Reminder that in Season 1 of Arrow, Oliver killed the **** out of a lot of people. There's a reason people are like "...yeah no Arrow is a bad show". It's bummer central.

You are so outspoken in your dislike of Arrow that I am kind of happy that you aren't planning on watching Legends of Tomorrow.

[Lizard Lord]

You are so outspoken in your dislike of Arrow that I am kind of happy that you aren't planning on watching Legends of Tomorrow.

I also dislike Arrow. From the little bit I have seen it has all the same problems as Flash, but without the element of fun that makes Flash worth watching. I do plan on watching Legends of Tomorrow since I think it may have that element of fun (Captain Cold being in it helps with that conclusion.)

[Ranxerox]

I also dislike Arrow. From the little bit I have seen it has all the same problems as Flash, but without the element of fun that makes Flash worth watching. I do plan on watching Legends of Tomorrow since I think it may have that element of fun (Captain Cold being in it helps with that conclusion.)

You don't like it but you don't seem compelled to continually mention how much you don't like, so everything should be cool. As an Arrow fan I would like be able participate in the inevitable LoT thread withoutrepeatedly being told how much a show that I like sucks. As a primate (you should feel grateful for your lizard status) when poop is flung my way, it takes much too much willpower to not start flinging back.

[LaZodiac]

You are so outspoken in your dislike of Arrow that I am kind of happy that you aren't planning on watching Legends of Tomorrow.

Well I mean it's not like there is an Arrow thread to discuss it. For what it's worth I liked how Arrow and his pals interacted with the Flash's crew. I like the little aside joke they made to Avengers 2. I think Speedy acts exactly how a side kick should and it's cool. I just have never watched a single full episode of Arrow, and everything I've seen and heard about the show is just kind of unfun sounding. I'll try to be less negative on it consistent though, and sorry if it annoyed you.

I don't know when Legends of Tomorrow comes out so that's part of why I won't be able to watch it. Hearing that Captain Cold AND Wally West are gonna be in it though, and Hawk-Girl...I'll take a look, just...could you guys tell me when it's on because I don't know >_>

[Lizard Lord]

Legends of Tomorrow comes out January 21st. (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4532368/?ref_=nv_sr_1)

[LaZodiac]

Legends of Tomorrow comes out January 21st. (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4532368/?ref_=nv_sr_1)

So it airs every Thursday? Yeah I could probably watch that then.

[ryuplaneswalker]

So it airs every Thursday? Yeah I could probably watch that then.

Well unless the Vogons show up and blow up the earth.

[RaistlinSees]

Legends of tomorrow looks to be a promising show, I just hope they dont screw it all up.

[themaque]

They will screw something up, but I want to see Rory shoot people with a sci-fi six shooter! Barry being witty, Cold being cool, and someone else doing something... fan worthy.

I'm on board is what I'm saying. And I WANT Arrow to be on that show as well! I WANT him to be dark, brooding, and grumpy forcing people to plan and THINK.

Arrow is effectively BATMAN for all the good and bad that entails. Well... aside from the fact that while reasonably smart he isn't the worlds greatest detective. He has his own personal Oracle for all the science stuff. So.. back to batman again.

[HardcoreD&Dgirl]

They will screw something up, but I want to see Rory shoot people with a sci-fi six shooter! Barry being witty, Cold being cool, and someone else doing something... fan worthy.

I'm on board is what I'm saying. And I WANT Arrow to be on that show as well! I WANT him to be dark, brooding, and grumpy forcing people to plan and THINK.

Arrow is effectively BATMAN for all the good and bad that entails. Well... aside from the fact that while reasonably smart he isn't the worlds greatest detective. He has his own personal Oracle for all the science stuff. So.. back to batman again.

I want to see time travel handled with care and thought... I want them to realize what the butter fly effect really means...

I want firestorm to transmute things....

[huttj509]

They will screw something up, but I want to see Rory shoot people with a sci-fi six shooter! Barry being witty, Cold being cool, and someone else doing something... fan worthy.

I'm on board is what I'm saying. And I WANT Arrow to be on that show as well! I WANT him to be dark, brooding, and grumpy forcing people to plan and THINK.

Arrow is effectively BATMAN for all the good and bad that entails. Well... aside from the fact that while reasonably smart he isn't the worlds greatest detective. He has his own personal Oracle for all the science stuff. So.. back to batman again.

"We're *not* calling it the Arrow-cave!"

Regarding the last part:

Well, not anymore...

[chainer1216]

I want Cisco to breakdance!

(Vibe in comics was a "superb break dancer")

[themaque]

I want Cisco to breakdance!

(Vibe in comics was a "superb break dancer")

Considering the characterization give the character in the TV show, You just try to STOP him from break dancing!

[LaZodiac]

I want Cisco to breakdance!

(Vibe in comics was a "superb break dancer")

...yes yes please. I really hope Cisco gets his groove going as his powers develop.

[themaque]

Who do people really want to see brought into this continuity?

He made an Arrow appearance, I would love to see Constantine or PHANTOM STRANGER!

Return of Rainbow Raider, with a complete Palate if you please.

Return of Pied Piper

Mirror Master, The Fiddler, The Top, The Shade...

We may need to seep over into season 3 at this point...

[TheEmerged]

I might be showing my age here but... The Top. On one level he's just another theme villain - but one with enough superspeed to be a challenge for Barry without being a season-long threat. There is also the potential plot element of Barry killing him \ being at least partially responsible for his death.

[HardcoreD&Dgirl]

I might be showing my age here but... The Top. On one level he's just another theme villain - but one with enough superspeed to be a challenge for Barry without being a season-long threat. There is also the potential plot element of Barry killing him \ being at least partially responsible for his death.

they brought him back in the mid 200x's and he was a real pita...but I agree with him, and I think we are getting mirror master.

Next year for our killer big bad I want SAVITAR... and his speed ninjas

[themaque]

I want something OTHER Than a Speedster for the big bad next season. I would like to see them get creative and have something other than just "Can I run FAST enough" as a goal.

[Lizard Lord]

Guys what about the Turtle Man? (The "speed vampire" obviously.:smallwink:)

[LaZodiac]

Guys what about the Turtle Man? (The "speed vampire" obviously.:smallwink:)

...I don't know all the details because I've never read the Flash comics but isn't that technically Zoom then, since he feasts on the Speed Force?

[Lizard Lord]

...I don't know all the details because I've never read the Flash comics but isn't that technically Zoom then, since he feasts on the Speed Force?

Well Turtle Man doesn't have Superspeed he just drains it from people and not just from Speedsters either. Turtle Man would make you move in slow motion, Zoom would just makes Speedsters move at normal speed.

The original Turtle Man was a criminal genius (as in his genius was in commiting crimes but he wasn't a scientist or anything) with the informed trait of being the "Slowest Man Alive" despite nothing shown on page really supporting that assessment.

[ryuplaneswalker]

Snart has a Sister?

And she gets a Midas Gun?

I LOVE THIS SHOW!

Edit :Just want to add Holy Crud, Snart is a great badguy, favorite recurring character on the show.

[LaZodiac]

Snart has a Sister?

And she gets a Midas Gun?

I LOVE THIS SHOW!

Edit :Just want to add Holy Crud, Snart is a great badguy, favorite recurring character on the show.

Captain Cold is the best villain on this show next to the Trickster, and Golden Glider rules.

[ryuplaneswalker]

Trickster has an unfair advantage over Cold though since he is Mark Hamill doing his best to not be The Joker.

[LaZodiac]

Trickster has an unfair advantage over Cold though since he is Mark Hamill doing his best to not be The Joker.

Hate to be the "well actually" lady but technically he was trying his best not to be the Trickster when he was doing The Joker. Since he originally did a live action version of the Trickster in the ooold Flash tv show, and that got him the Joker job. No he's back to his roots, as it were.

But yeah point is it's unfair because it's Mark Hamill.

[randyortan39]

ok i agree with you

[ryuplaneswalker]

Into season 2 now.

OMG OMG OMG OMG ITS A SHARK MAN! IT'S CAPTAIN MAKO (http://cityofheroes.wikia.com/wiki/Captain_Mako) ON ROIDS!

Edit Caught up on the show fully

Dradle Dradle Dradle I made you out of C-4

The Trickster is now officially a better Joker than The Dark Knight Joker was.

[Silverphantasm]

I personally don't know her history, but wouldn't a better name for Golden Glider be Miss Midas?

[themaque]

I personally don't know her history, but wouldn't a better name for Golden Glider be Miss Midas?

With her current power set? Yes, most definitely. In the comic she was an Olympic Skater with jewel themed weaponry and would often skate along the ice traks her brother provided. In New 52 she is ethereal and floats/flies around. Thus the name still makes sense.

This is a moment where the naming convention only makes sense if you know the comic character. Like their current version of Rainbow Raider? He only uses RED and makes people angry. Unless they add more of the color/emotional spectrum he should be... the Rage Raider or something.

EDIT: Seems like King Shark WILL be returning, and Diggle from Arrow will be coming to help out in the fight.

[LaZodiac]

Seems like King Shark WILL be returning

Yay!


and Diggle from Arrow will be coming to help out in the fight.

Not yay! Who's Diggle?

[TheEmerged]

With her current power set? Yes, most definitely. In the comic she was an Olympic Skater with jewel themed weaponry and would often skate along the ice traks her brother provided. In New 52 she is ethereal and floats/flies around. Thus the name still makes sense.

This is a moment where the naming convention only makes sense if you know the comic character. Like their current version of Rainbow Raider? He only uses RED and makes people angry. Unless they add more of the color/emotional spectrum he should be... the Rage Raider or something.

The Pied Piper version is also very different.

On the issue of Golden Glider, it's worth pointing out that the Silver Age version was in love with ...ahem... The Top. Yet another reason I'd like to see at least a semi-serious take on him appear in the show.

[The New Bruceski]

Not yay! Who's Diggle?

Oliver's former bodyguard and best friend, affectionately nicknamed Black Driver by fans since he doesn't get a hero name. Currently wears Magneto's helmet because apparently Arrow's costume designers can't do anything decent if they don't have comics to work off of.

[themaque]

The Pied Piper version is also very different.

Another villain I would love to see returned and fleshed out.


Who's Diggle?

Black guy from Arrow who seems to be the one person who responds to things as a semi-normal human being from what little I've seen.

[LaZodiac]

Black guy from Arrow who seems to be the one person who responds to things as a semi-normal human being from what little I've seen.

Interesting. I wonder that, if it's ONLY him, will he be done good like when the one hacker lady showed up and JUST her was good. We'll see!

Also I'm going o watch all of Season 1 of Flash in a biiit, so I'll finally understand who all these villains that are Cold, Trickster and Weather Wizard are (apparently Weather Wizard is actually WW2? This show started weird...)

[themaque]

Interesting. I wonder that, if it's ONLY him, will he be done good like when the one hacker lady showed up and JUST her was good. We'll see!

Also I'm going o watch all of Season 1 of Flash in a biiit, so I'll finally understand who all these villains that are Cold, Trickster and Weather Wizard are (apparently Weather Wizard is actually WW2? This show started weird...)

To REALLY understand The Trickster you also have to watch his episodes of the original 90's flash. That one... Well I was a fan in the 90's but it had problems trying to be a super hero show when such things where still REALLY expensive to pull off.

You really just have to watch his 2 episodes and they should be easily found online.

[~Corvus~]

Does anyone else find it incredibly annoying that the Flash STILL uses the same speech patterns and inflection of his alter-ego? Why doesn't he even try???

[LaZodiac]

Does anyone else find it incredibly annoying that the Flash STILL uses the same speech patterns and inflection of his alter-ego? Why doesn't he even try???

To be fair that's not easy to pick up on if you're not like, a professional. The face and mouth blurring stuff probably also messes that up.

[LaZodiac]

Uuuuh...there was a new episode today of The Flash apparently! I haven't watched it yet but it's recorded! I'll watch it later just...reminding you guys that there was a new one!

[Pex]

I am not looking forward to the return of Reverse Flash. That storyline is done. It should stay done.

[LaZodiac]

I like to think this was an actually pretty okay episode. We got some nice drama, if not perfect. We set up why Wally West isn't sticking around so he can be part of Legends. Turtle was actually kinda neat, and I'm curious about what Wells did to him.

Then...then the end of the episode stinger with Thaun. Why? Why would you do this? Is this just going to be how Wally get's speed powers, from Reverse Flash?

[BWR]

I am not looking forward to the return of Reverse Flash. That storyline is done. It should stay done.

You think villains stay gone in superhero stories?

[The New Bruceski]

I am not looking forward to the return of Reverse Flash. That storyline is done. It should stay done.

For Flash that story is done.
For Thawne, it's only just beginning. Time travel is weird that way. He thought he lost his powers due to killing Barry's mom, but what if Flash figured out how to steal his speed to use against Zoom?

[LaZodiac]

For Flash that story is done.
For Thawne, it's only just beginning. Time travel is weird that way. He thought he lost his powers due to killing Barry's mom, but what if Flash figured out how to steal his speed to use against Zoom?

But Thawne doesn't exist. This is beyond time travel, he's been erased from time.

Also, like has been said but numerous people, bringing him back is just pointless fanservice, if anything!

[huttj509]

I like to think this was an actually pretty okay episode. We got some nice drama, if not perfect. We set up why Wally West isn't sticking around so he can be part of Legends. Turtle was actually kinda neat, and I'm curious about what Wells did to him.

Then...then the end of the episode stinger with Thaun. Why? Why would you do this? Is this just going to be how Wally get's speed powers, from Reverse Flash?

He sucked out thew bit of brain that gave turtle his powers, so he can try to weaponize it against Zoom. Killing turtle in the process.

[LaZodiac]

He sucked out thew bit of brain that gave turtle his powers, so he can try to weaponize it against Zoom. Killing turtle in the process.

...I think I wrote that last bit wrong I meant I'm curious as to what Wells' do with it EXACTLY. A shame Turtle died he was neat!

[comicshorse]

Having watched this episode the only thing I have to ask is : where on earth did Patsy hide the gun she pulled out at the party ? :smallcool:

[LaZodiac]

Having watched this episode the only thing I have to ask is : where on earth did Patsy hide the gun she pulled out at the party ? :smallcool:

She saw a really cool show on TV earlier and decided to quickly gear up a garter with holster capability.

[Ranxerox]

But Thawne doesn't exist. This is beyond time travel, he's been erased from time.

Also, like has been said but numerous people, bringing him back is just pointless fanservice, if anything!

Thawne was erased from Earth 1's timeline. This Thawne is probably from Earth 2's future and may be a hero for all we know.

[LaZodiac]

Thawne was erased from Earth 1's timeline. This Thawne is probably from Earth 2's future and may be a hero for all we know.

I saw a preview for the next episode explaining what the deal is during Legends of Tomorrow and it's suuuuper god damn stupid and that's all I'll say.

[themaque]

There are already so many plot holes with Thawn and his being erased from the timeline that if he came back it wouldn't be a disaster for me, provided he didn't stick around.

I loved seeing Chief as The Turtle.

we know he's hurt, we don't know he's dead?

The real thing that annoys me is...

I dunno Patsy's departure. I guess I liked her character. and it feels... rushed. Although she has reasons and they did establish her really working on this decision beforehand. I was half hoping she would throw him being Flash in his face as she left. "I'm a detective, remember?" with some much less stupid reasoning than Iris used.

[LaZodiac]

There are already so many plot holes with Thawn and his being erased from the timeline that if he came back it wouldn't be a disaster for me, provided he didn't stick around.

I loved seeing Chief as The Turtle.

we know he's hurt, we don't know he's dead?

The real thing that annoys me is...

I dunno Patsy's departure. I guess I liked her character. and it feels... rushed. Although she has reasons and they did establish her really working on this decision beforehand. I was half hoping she would throw him being Flash in his face as she left. "I'm a detective, remember?" with some much less stupid reasoning than Iris used.

This is a CW show, bleeding from the nose and fainting after someone sticks a thing up your nose means you're dead, 100% of the time I'm pretty sure.

My problem with Pattie's departure is...I don't think she'll actually leave? I don't know it feels like forced drama that'll get dealt with in an episode.

[GAZ]

Just watched my recording of the new ep and I kinda embarrassed myself. I spent practically the entire episode screaming at the TV, "Barry, tell her now. Immediately!" "No! Just spit it out, now!" "Barry, you idiot, you're going to ruin everything!" And more in that vein. Also marked the first time I ever heard somebody say "Listen to Iris. She is the authority on the subject and is one hundred percent right." And it turns out that person was me. Like I said, very embarrassing. I guess it just speaks to the quality of the show that it can elicit such reactions from a grown man.

[Zmeoaice]

I don't understand why Barry was surprised Patty was leaving Central City. She was kidnapped and nearly embalmed alive for crying out loud.

As for you know who, he's only gone because Eddie killed himself... but Eddie only killed himself because RF exist, so if RF didn't exist then Eddie would still be alive, which mean RF would exist... so... wormhole?

[LaZodiac]

I don't understand why Barry was surprised Patty was leaving Central City. She was kidnapped and nearly embalmed alive for crying out loud.

As for you know who, he's only gone because Eddie killed himself... but Eddie only killed himself because RF exist, so if RF didn't exist then Eddie would still be alive, which mean RF would exist... so... wormhole?

I'm doing some thinking on it, and I'm gonna wait until the show tells us exactly what is going on. I have an idea of how it'll work out and it's...really DUMB, but also works the way we know time travel works in this series so...I mean I guess? I just think this is something that does NOT need to be done.

See cause, we know Reverse Flash, even in the future, had to use some sort of device to get his speed and had to recharge. So something is going to strip his speed from him and give it to Wally West. And that's gonna make him HATE the Flash, but he'll have enough juice to get back to the future...and with a huge grudge.

[themaque]

I'm doing some thinking on it, and I'm gonna wait until the show tells us exactly what is going on. I have an idea of how it'll work out and it's...really DUMB, but also works the way we know time travel works in this series so...I mean I guess? I just think this is something that does NOT need to be done.

See cause, we know Reverse Flash, even in the future, had to use some sort of device to get his speed and had to recharge. So something is going to strip his speed from him and give it to Wally West. And that's gonna make him HATE the Flash, but he'll have enough juice to get back to the future...and with a huge grudge.

That's only IF we get Wally powered up this fast. He could stand for a lot more screen time before that happens.

[LaZodiac]

That's only IF we get Wally powered up this fast. He could stand for a lot more screen time before that happens.

I feel like they'll give him speed powers to MAKE him get screen time. It'll make him want to stay in town, because now he's got this speed power and there's only one person who can help him.

[chainer1216]

I feel like they'll give him speed powers to MAKE him get screen time. It'll make him want to stay in town, because now he's got this speed power and there's only one person who can help him.

And that person is ZOOM!!!

dundundunnnnnnnn

[Pex]

I'm thinking it's still possible Wally won't be getting speed at all. They know we know about Wally West in the comics. Just to be different, give a twist, this Wally West doesn't become a Flash. Not placing a bet on it, just a possibility.

[themaque]

I am holding out hope they keep him non-powered for a while. Let's establish who he is first, THEN give him powers.

[Pex]

All right, I'll accept their "timey-wimey" reason why Reverse Flash exists as plausible and not written out of the posterior. Still, I was hoping this would have been the episode that showed Reverse Flash going back in time to kill Barry as a kid and Flash following him to save himself and tell his earlier self not to change the timeline and have this story line over and done with already. Alas, we can expect to see Reverse Flash again, but in consolation Cisco's timey-wimey-vibey troubles would explain why Flash does tell himself not to save his mom and change the timeline, presuming it's referenced when they finally get around to it.

[BlueHerring]

The silliest part of this episode is that if Barry does end up meeting the Reverse Flash in the future, he's basically going to have to lose or let him go. The only time he'll ever "win" is when he goes back to his own childhood and strands Thawne there.

Otherwise, a decent episode. I thought Cisco's goggles were kinda cool.

[Maelstrom]

Another Silly 'theme': Long Distance Relationship being an issue for The Flash. Sure, he can pick up any time and rush out to Star City in No time flat, way out in California, but a jaunt a few hundred miles away to Midway City, that's a deal breaker (even as he was going to break the news, yet once again, that he is The Flash, not that she doesn't know...) :smallconfused:

[LaZodiac]

Finally saw the new episode oh man.

Okay so maybe it's just my fault for reading the TV guide, but it said "no one believes Cisco about Reverse Flash" but then in the episode we see the Reverse Flash Vibe...and then cut to ads, and when we get back to the show Thaun is fighting Barry. Did this happen to anyone else or just me?

That aside, this is a pretty okay episode. Glad the Thaun stuff was basically a B-Plot sort of. I too like Cisco's goggles, and it's cool that he's learning how to use his powers better. His actual genuine excitement at being able to see the future is pretty cool. His uh...brain seizure from ****ing with the futurepast sucks though, poor guy. I hope the "bye Felicia" moment was worth it..

The only thing I didn't like about this episode was...I don't know who McGee is! Also hey Patty figured out Barry is The Flash all on her own!

We also get the reveal that Earth-1 Jay is called "Hunter Zolomon" which basically confirms that Earth-2 Barry is Zoom.

[themaque]

Okay, Why can't Barry keep his girlfriend? He can see her on weekends EASY! COP OUT! And he was just being so damned mopey about it for no reason. Last week SHE shut HIM down and now he is all mopey refusing to talk any more. She was despretly reaching out to him and he was all

Barry: There's a lotta things about me you don't know anything about, Patty. Things you wouldn't understand. Things you couldn't understand. Things you shouldn't understand.

Patty: I don't understand.

Barry: You don't wanna get mixed up with a guy like me. I'm a loner, Patty. A rebel. So long, Patt.

Although I did love they let her figure it out and throw it in his face a little bit.

And This in no way confirms that Barry is Earth 2 zoom, sorry.

[LaZodiac]

And This in no way confirms that Barry is Earth 2 zoom, sorry.



I meant more that Earth-1 Jay having the name Zoom's human identity has in the comics confirms it.

[themaque]

I meant more that Earth-1 Jay having the name Zoom's human identity has in the comics confirms it.

How does that "Confirm" anything?

Although, I concede you where right on Turtle.

[LaZodiac]

How does that "Confirm" anything?

Although, I concede you where right on Turtle.

In Earth-1, Barry becomes the Flash and Jay becomes an orphan without the ability to gain his speed through his science. Likewise on Earth-2, since Jay didn't become an orphan and got to make his science, Barry got into a different situation. Maybe his parents died still, but since he gets his power from a science that he didn't make, he could still theoretically get it.

I'm just theorizing of course, calling it "for sure confirmed" was probably a little much.

[themaque]

In Earth-1, Barry becomes the Flash and Jay becomes an orphan without the ability to gain his speed through his science. Likewise on Earth-2, since Jay didn't become an orphan and got to make his science, Barry got into a different situation. Maybe his parents died still, but since he gets his power from a science that he didn't make, he could still theoretically get it.

I'm just theorizing of course, calling it "for sure confirmed" was probably a little much.

Okay, fair theory. Has some nice symmetry to it. Let's see how that plays out for her, Cotton.

[ryuplaneswalker]

Okay, Why can't Barry keep his girlfriend? He can see her on weekends EASY! COP OUT! And he was just being so damned mopey about it for no reason. Last week SHE shut HIM down and now he is all mopey refusing to talk any more. She was despretly reaching out to him and he was all

Barry: There's a lotta things about me you don't know anything about, Patty. Things you wouldn't understand. Things you couldn't understand. Things you shouldn't understand.

Patty: I don't understand.

Barry: You don't wanna get mixed up with a guy like me. I'm a loner, Patty. A rebel. So long, Patt.

Although I did love they let her figure it out and throw it in his face a little bit.

And This in no way confirms that Barry is Earth 2 zoom, sorry.



They can't have Patty and Barry stay together because now he and Iris can start to get together..but suddenly...PATTY SHOWS UP! DUN DUN DUUUUUUUUNNNN!

No, you can't convince me that won't happen, this is the CW dag nabit.