Rogue Expertise

[Edgerunner]

When I choose my Rogue Expertise....

When I choose Thieves Tools what extra bonus do I get for Locks/Traps over and above my Sleight of Hands bonus?

[TopCheese]

When I choose my Rogue Expertise....

When I choose Thieves Tools what extra bonus do I get for Locks/Traps over and above my Sleight of Hands bonus?

I'll need to check but last I noticed using theives tools has nothing to do with sleight of hand. Thieves tools is their own thing as they are a tool.

[DivisibleByZero]

When I choose my Rogue Expertise....

When I choose Thieves Tools what extra bonus do I get for Locks/Traps over and above my Sleight of Hands bonus?

Neither of those (locks/traps) use sleight of hand. So, nothing.

When you encounter a lock or trap, anyone can attempt to use thieves' tools to pick/disarm it with a Dexterity check. If you have proficiency with thieves' tools, you add your proficiency bonus to the roll. If you have Expertise with the tools, you add twice your proficiency bonus to the roll.

[JoeJ]

You don't use Sleight of Hand proficiency to open locks or disable traps.

[Edgerunner]

OK so using an Expertise on Sleight of Hand is not a good idea. I should just use my Dex bonus.

Many Thanks

If I also have a Disguise Kit....
Do I just add my Prof bonus or do I get to use it in conjunction with my Deception skills?

[TopCheese]

OK so using an Expertise on Sleight of Hand is not a good idea. I should just use my Dex bonus.

Many Thanks

Well, depends on what you want to do. Sleight of Hand can be a very very very interesting skill to never fail.

Expertise is the difference between stealing someone's coin purse without them knowing and stealing someone's pants without them knowing.

[NNescio]

When I choose my Rogue Expertise....

When I choose Thieves Tools what extra bonus do I get for Locks/Traps over and above my Sleight of Hands bonus?

Sleight of Hand isn't used to pick locks or disarm traps. It can be used to conceal the fact that you're disarming a trap or picking a lock from onlookers, yes, but that's not quite the same thing.

Picking locks and disarming traps are generally Dexterity ability checks (A DM may rule Int checks for puzzle-like locks/traps which do not require manual dexterity for some weird reason, or Strength to disable a heavy, primitive trap, but that's kinda a jerk move). Proficiency with the relevant tool (thieves' tools) lets you add your proficiency bonus on top of your roll + Dex mod.

A rogue with expertise with thieves' tools gets to add double his proficiency bonus to this check. That's it, no Sleight of Hands involved.

[Edgerunner]

OK so using an Expertise on Sleight of Hand is not a good idea. I should just use my Dex bonus.

Many Thanks

If I also have a Disguise Kit....
Do I just add my Prof bonus or do I get to use it in conjunction with my Deception skills?

Sorry for the basic questions that I should know the answer too but sometimes... what the PHB says and what a PC can actually do with their skills are sometimes very different.

[TopCheese]

Sorry for the basic questions that I should know the answer too but sometimes... what the PHB says and what a PC can actually do with their skills are sometimes very different.

Deception and Disguise Kit...


Disguise Kit shows how good your disguise physically is whereas Deception is how well you can pull it off via lying or whatever.

I may be dressed like a military personel but if I can't deceive them means that I will be spotted instantly.

[Edgerunner]

Can a PC still "Take a 20" when they want to improve their Skill checks in 5e?

[NNescio]

Can a PC still "Take a 20" when they want to improve their Skill checks in 5e?

RAW, no.

RAI, definitely no, because bounded accuracy (short explanation: DCs and modifiers are significantly lower in 5e).

Taking 10 (Passive checks) is still available though, but only for repetitive tasks, or for things like passive perception against active stealth to notice hidden creatures without actively searching for them.

The DM can at his discretion use further passive checks to cut down on the number of die rolls (mostly to avoid revealing information to players that calling out for a roll might).

[TopCheese]

Can a PC still "Take a 20" when they want to improve their Skill checks in 5e?

Technically yes, sort of.

But the player doesn't do it, the DM does. If a task will be passed, evebtually, by the player or its something that the player should be able to do then the DM just doesn't call for a skill check.

A level 10 Bard doesn't really need a skill check to leap up on a table and swing across the chandelier in order to get to the other side of the room if no enemies are close enough to attack. The DM can just allow the player to succeed and be done with it. Heck of the Bard disengaged then they still wouldn't need a check. But if the bard didn't disengage and still tried this with enemies around... The Bard would need a check to see if they can perform this skill.

[djreynolds]

Our DM gives dex checks for open locks and Int checks for disable traps, he's still stuck in 3.5. But I get his point. You get double proficiency plus ability modifier for either one, depending on the situation and he does allow others to help. Say if someone else took thieves' tools, he'd allow us to add both ability modifiers or advantage to the roll.

I like sleight of hand, and wish it could be used in combat somehow. Like feinting in combat.

For me, expertise should be for skills that cannot be mimicked by a spell. Or to save a spell slot from being used. Perception, athletics for rogue/melee hybrids, thieves' tools, sleight of hand, stealth, etc. And then whittle down what you really need for the party.

Do you need this skill, when all other options, such as spells, are gone?
Is it a skill that is "of the moment" that you need to perform or die?
Are you the scout? Is this an espionage campaign? Are you B&E type of mission?
Must you perform this in combat or perhaps without aid or spells? Time constraint?

Thieves' tools, perception, stealth, and investigation come up a lot. Athletics and acrobatics are good.

[Goodberry]

OK so using an Expertise on Sleight of Hand is not a good idea. I should just use my Dex bonus.

Many Thanks

If I also have a Disguise Kit....
Do I just add my Prof bonus or do I get to use it in conjunction with my Deception skills?

You apply the bonus to any ability check with that skill or tool. If you were to make and use a disguise, you would roll a Charisma(Deception) check. If you have proficiency in either Deception or Disguise Kit, you add your proficiency bonus. Same goes for expertise. Having proficiency(and expertise) in both Deception and Disguise kit does NOT allow you to add the bonus(es) again.

[TopCheese]

If you had proficiency and expertise in thieves tools but not deception and you only wanted to make it look like you was trying to pick a lock with them you could always perform a Charisma (Thieves Tools) w/expertise check.

On a success people think you are using your thieves tools to try and unlock the lock when you really might just be leaving said lock alone.