Bard Spell Optimization?

[Baxter2072]

I making a Lore bard ,but I am starting to think maybe I should go with Wizard instead. I am just attracted to the amount of spells the wizard has access too. What is your opinion? The party I am in already has a warlock and druid. The Character is kinda leaning on the evil side he is ambitious and selfish but he does have a bit of good in him though.

The Game started but I am joining mid game at level 7 so if I go bard this is my spell list
-0:Vicious Mockery,Minor Illusion,Prestidigitation, Eldritch Blast (Magic Secret)
-1:Dissonant Whispers,Bane (C),Disguise Self
-2:Suggestion (C),Hold Person,Shatter
-3:Hypnotic Pattern,Glacial Blast(Custom Damaging/control spell),Counter Spell (Magic Secret)
-4:Greater Invisibility(C)

[SharkForce]

well, if you've already got a druid, several of the most interesting spells to steal are already available to the party.

on the other hand, if you're leaning towards evil, making sure they're available to *you* can be just as important ;)

eldritch blast isn't that great unless you're getting agonizing blast to supplement. you've not mentioned a warlock dip in the future, so i presume there isn't one. frankly, you'd get better mileage out of a magic initiate feat anyways, imo, rather than use spell secrets to steal it. or from the aforementioned warlock dip (i'd consider 3 levels, even, if there's a lot of cantrips you like; tome lock gives you good damage, access to 3 cherry-picked cantrips converted to warlock spells (ie they work off of charisma - shillelagh and greenflame blade are likely to be a pipe dream for anyone else, but you can pick up a decent secondary melee option that way if you wish). and of course rituals. or whatever other invocation you like.

alternately, you could also just play a wizard. it'll be a bit of a different feel, though.

[Baxter2072]

Yea That is what I thought what would you recommend If I didn't go Eldritch blast?

I would mulit class but one I am kinda new to the game so I am unfamiliar with the mechanic and I do not want to step on out warlocks toes.

Also by more evil I ment neutral I usually play good characters and this guys is just selfish and ambitious.he still has some good left in him.He is just reluctant to act upon good intentions because of his hubris.

[SharkForce]

what to take instead depends on if you want to deal damage with your default action or do something else.

personally, i would strongly consider web. it gives a dex save disabling spell.

alternately, i doubt you'll regret having access to an extra set of conjured animals, even if it is technically a spell the druid can already access.

if you're still looking for a damage cantrip, you could pick up spell sniper feat for eldritch blast though. alternately magic initiate and you'd get to add a second cantrip and a first level spell to your list (though spell sniper will also give you extra range and the ability to ignore cover, which is pretty nice as far as default attacks go).

[gullveig]

Just a tip in the roleplaying... Instead of "reluctant to act upon good intentions" try to "corrupt good intentions to your own cause".

Instead of "I won't save them", please say "Of course, I will save them... But I want a fine reward afterwards!"

Reluctant characters are boring.

[Baxter2072]

Just a tip in the roleplaying... Instead of "reluctant to act upon good intentions" try to "corrupt good intentions to your own cause".

Instead of "I won't save them", please say "Of course, I will save them... But I want a fine reward afterwards!"

Reluctant characters are boring.

Ok thanks for the advice I will try that,but I do want him to be too evil

[Baxter2072]

what to take instead depends on if you want to deal damage with your default action or do something else.

personally, i would strongly consider web. it gives a dex save disabling spell.

alternately, i doubt you'll regret having access to an extra set of conjured animals, even if it is technically a spell the druid can already access.

if you're still looking for a damage cantrip, you could pick up spell sniper feat for eldritch blast though. alternately magic initiate and you'd get to add a second cantrip and a first level spell to your list (though spell sniper will also give you extra range and the ability to ignore cover, which is pretty nice as far as default attacks go).

I am trying to have a mix of good damage/control spells and more flavorful RP ones

[Nishant]

I am trying to have a mix of good damage/control spells and more flavorful RP ones

I always love suggestion or polymorph, and Dissonant Whispers+Animate objects can be a fine combo. Throw a few pebbles or coins out, animate them, make the dude run straight through them. ALL THE AoO!

[Cybren]

I enjoy having Cure Wounds on my bard (which I intend to replace with healing word when I can get magical secrets for prayer of healing), as I find that with a lot of bard spells being focused around illusion/enchantment style control spells, some encounters are semi-immune to large percentages of your offensive magic. It's nice having an outlet for spell slots that would otherwise go fallow

[Levism84]

I am a fan of the bard, particularly the spell vicious mockery. I created a homebrew spell that is its Somatic equivalent, called vulgar gesticulation. I know having two spells that do exactly the same thing aren't optimal for a character, but I would love to see a bard able to cast one or the other as a bonus action.

"I vicious mock the bandit and follow it up with a vulgar gesticulation." The imagery is very nice.

For looking at bard verses wizard, wizard definitely wins when it comes to sheer spell versatility. However, you as a player have to keep track of and prepare your spell list. This will impose additional responsibilities and restrictions on you and how you play. While the wizard has to choose carefully his spells for a given day/situation, the bard need only concentrate on obtaining spells that are useful in a variety of situations. Since you will become more familiar with these bard spells, it becomes easier for you as a player to think of different or interesting ways to utilize them. Also keep in mind, with a wizard you specialize in a particular school of magic. As a lore bard, you have access to a number of abilities that allow you to adapt to the situation at hand.

I think it all comes down to your playing style, but I am a bard fan, so I guess I would suggest going that route still.

[Baxter2072]

I am going to be a bard I decided. The thing I am curious about is good cantrips really,because I love all the spells you are all suggesting but right now I cannot get them. I still am debating on eldritch blast just so I can have a good basic attacking cantrip.

I was actually online and I found a custom bard cantrip that I like what do you think. It is kinda like eldritch in the amount of damage but it is only one target plus it has the nice bard flavor I enjoy.

Sonic Shout
Evocation Cantrip (intended for Bards)
Casting Time: One Action
Range: 120 feet
Component: V, S
Duration: Instantaneous

You project your voice into a missile of sonic energy. Make a ranged spell attack against a target, if you hit your voice explodes upon reaching them dealing 1d10 thunder damage.
This spell increases in power as you level up, dealing 2d10 thunder damage at 5th level, 3d10 at 11th level, and 4d10 at 17th level.