Planning on playing a Dragon, how does it work?

[magicalmagicman]

I want to play a prismatic dragon, but that might be too much for a campaign spanning levels 1-20, so I'll probably play a Silver Dragon.

As a wyrmling I have a whopping +11 LA so how would I play this?

1. I don't care about "class". All I ever play now days are sorcerers, and dragons have natural sorcerer spellcasting. Is there a way I can age faster so I can "level up" my increasing my hd?

2. I think the LA is in consideration of the player's class. In the complete absence of a class, how would I modify the LA accordingly?

[Fouredged Sword]

Well, you can't play a dragon for levels 1-20. All of them have racial HD and LA, so you start at minimum level 7 or so.

If you want to play a dragon at low levels, I suggest playing a kobold sorcerer and use alter self and dragonwrought to be able to take the shape of any dragon under 5HD and within 1 step of your size. Even then you are looking at 3-5th level before you can really take dragon form.

Also, note, dragons play like fighters more than they play like sorcerers.

[JyP]

Rules to play dragons are in Draconomicon - there are some ways to gain class levels between RHD, so you can have sorcerer levels faster.


I want to play a prismatic dragon, but that might be too much for a campaign spanning levels 1-20

it's a campaign starting at level 1 right ?

if you are talking about prismatic dragon from epic level handbook, a wyrmling has 23 RHD with these +11 LE - that is, whenever it hatches this is already a ECL 34 character...

You hit the same problem with the Silver Dragon, a wyrmling already has 7 RHD + LE 4 = ECL 11.

the "weakest" in core would be a wyrmling white dragon with 3 RHD + LE 2 = ECL 5.

an alternative would be to play a wizard's familiar, starting as a pseudodragon with 2 RHD + LE 3 = ECL 5 also... you may use rules from Savage Species to play these first 5 levels, maybe mixing with rules from Draconomicon about RHD coming after a few years.

[Fouredged Sword]

I forgot about racial progressions. Someone out there has surely done a 1-20 racial progression for silver dragons. You would cap out at young age before you left the pre-epic reservation, but still, it could be done.

[Greenish]

Read this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?207928-Urpriest-s-Monstrous-Monster-Handbook), then this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?303204-The-Truest-of-the-True-A-Handbook-to-non-Kobold-Dragons-(WIP)).

[magicalmagicman]

Thanks for pointing me to draconomicon and the threads. It is as I feared. You just play a wyrmling and a class of your choice.

So I guess the only way to play a true dragon is to be a monster and hope the game lasts more than 50 years.

Unless of course someone here tells me how to age faster.

[Fouredged Sword]

Well, there is some serious cheese involving cursing yourself old, but that gets to be serious cheese.

[magicalmagicman]

Well, there is some serious cheese involving cursing yourself old, but that gets to be serious cheese.

Please tell me more!

Honestly, this game is 99% cheese. There are so many ways to break the game it's hilarious, but that's the price you pay for an extremely customizable game, so it's up to the players to not break it :).

I have an experienced and lenient DM so we'll figure out a way for it to work without breaking the game. However, my DM is also anal about no-house-rules.

[Amphetryon]

I want to play a prismatic dragon, but that might be too much for a campaign spanning levels 1-20, so I'll probably play a Silver Dragon.

As a wyrmling I have a whopping +11 LA so how would I play this?

1. I don't care about "class". All I ever play now days are sorcerers, and dragons have natural sorcerer spellcasting. Is there a way I can age faster so I can "level up" my increasing my hd?

2. I think the LA is in consideration of the player's class. In the complete absence of a class, how would I modify the LA accordingly?

Step One: Google "oslecamo's improved monster classes."

Step Two: Find the dragon you wish to play listed.

Step Three: Show the relevant entry to your DM, and work together to iron out any potential concerns. (Washing the DM's car may be advisable as a bribe)

Step Four: ???

Step Five: Profit!

[ExLibrisMortis]

Well, the bestow curse spell can take you to the beginning of your next age category, as per BOVD alternate curse (this is detailed here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=16018007&postcount=7), also linked by Greenish above). For dragons, that means a power increase, but your ECL will go up fast (by at least 3, often by 4) for each category.

[magicalmagicman]

Ok that's fine.

My DM said PaO affects the original creature, not its enchanted state. He pulled out a lot of RAW stuff as proof.

So likewise, multiple "Bestow Curse" won't stack, at least not in his games, so at most my dragon will get a temporary boost when he uses a scroll of Bestow Curse on himself.

I know duration is "permanent" but after 1 encounter my DM will probably flood his spellcasters with remove curse.

This actually sounds really fun. All about when to pop bestow curse, gunning for enemy spellcasters first, etc.

[Fouredged Sword]

Another option is to play a "dragon" via being a cleric. Hear me out.

As a cleric, you can get domains that allow you to rebuke creatures with subtypes, up to and including controlling them. If you want to "play" a silver dragon, consider playing a cleric with the cold domain for rebuke cold creature. You can then find a silver wyrmling dragon once you hit level 7 and apply negative levels until it has less than half your HD.

You can then rebuke it into your control and heal the negative levels. So long as you have more HD than the dragon, you can control it (you only need double it's HD to ESTABLISH control, you can control up to your HD in creatures)

Now just upgrade to the next age of dragon whenever you cross a level threshold needed to control the next set.

What more, you can pick up all 5 dragons. You just need to start collecting domains. Fire (brass), Earth(copper), Water(Bronze), Cold(silver), and Dragon(gold) rebuking are all available. You start with two, planer touchstone will grant another. A dip in contemplative will fill out the fourth. Rebuke dragon is an ACF granted by being a dragonborn.

You can have 5 20HD dragons at your command at level 20, and realistically start with 4 equal to your HD for levels 5-12.

[magicalmagicman]

@FourEdgedSword

Thanks for the tip. I won't do it because I want to be a dragon, not a dragon master however, I sincerely thank you for bringing the cleric's ability to reliably dominate non-undead to my attention!

This is huge! I'm gonna have to go plan a new build revolving around your cleric for my next, next character, after I play a dragon. Combine with summon monster and he'll out perform my charm sorcerer in the minion department!

[Flickerdart]

The paladin's alternate special mount rules allow you to select any DM-approved monster with CR that's 3 less than your level (or 4 less if it flies). So an 8th level paladin could acquire a silver dragon wyrmling, and a 20th level paladin could ride an adult silver dragon. There is also the option of the Dragon Cohort feat, which lets you get a dragon with ECL 3 more than a normal Leadership cohort. So a 20th level character could have an ECL 21 dragon, and you could have your silver wyrmling as early as level 7.

In terms of the cleric thing, there's something you want to take a look at: greater status (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/spells/statusGreater.htm). It lets you cast spells on a creature you've touched hours ago, so long as it's on the same plane. Cleric-boss can stay at a campsite miles and miles from the adventure, and his dragon buddies will return every morning to get their greater status applied.

[Rubik]

Dragon Magazine issues #320 and #332 give savage progressions for dragons, all the way from level 1. Unfortunately, the LA is horrendous for most dragons, and you're much better off playing a Dragonwrought kobold with Alter Self and Polymorph, though you might be able to talk your DM into using LA buyoff to buy off all of your non-HD savage progression levels at 3,000 xp each, as soon as you get them.