Wizard Build for a 3.5/Pathfinder mixed game. HELP!

[Nyan]

Greetings! Im am about to join a game where we are going to play a mix of 3.5 and pathfinder. Now this means that all feats, spells and classes from both systems will be avaliable. Now I planned on making a wizard cause well obvious reasons. So im just going to ask what would be the most op and broken things I could do with this and we are going to start at level 6 with 10 000gp to start with. (Gm said the gold should be spent on no less than 3 items, starter gear is not included btw)

I have been thinking and obviously im going to want to multiclass in to prc's the question is which. Im thinking either between mage of the arcane order or incantrix i've heard that both of these are amazing but I dont know which is better and then lastly im going with archmage I think. Again i dont know which ones would be the best so I'd really like if you guys could tell me which one is the best or how the classes would be compared to eachother.

Im sort of following the wizard guides but all of them sort of say different things so Im not sure which one to really go for. It seems that wizard X/Incantrix or Mage of the arcane order X/Archmage 5 is the best option. As for my starting wizard class im thinking that i should either go for the pathfinder conjuration wizard so I get the amazing shift ability. Or like treatmonks guide said and go for a Domain Wizard. I dont know how this would work tho.

Im going for a GOD build with battlefield controll and what not and so Im not hundred on what feats to take and what not. Anything that you could tell me about what race to pick, feats, spells and what not will really be helpfull too.

EDIT: Initiate of the sevenfold veil and Dweomer keeper looks like they are really good too...this just got harder to pick .__.

[Grod_The_Giant]

First, look up "Uncanny Forethought" in Exemplars of Evil. Notice how you can take a full found action to cast any spell you know. Look up the "Spontaneous Diviner" ACF. Enjoy spontaneous casting.

Next, go Incantrix. Take Item Familiar and invest skill points for a double-high bonus to Spellcraft. Enjoy essentially metamagic. Quicken, Persist, and or Dazing spell everything.

[Kurald Galain]

For your starting wizard, consider the Exploiter archetype; this will among others give you a workable counterspell option.

Samsaran is a fun race, as it allows you to add a few arcane non-wizard spells to your list. The bard list in particular has some good ones. Not that wizards particularly need more spells :smallbiggrin:

Actually, I'd go for dwarf and pick up Steel Soul. Because defenses are good, and the wizard's baseline saving throws are weaker than most classes.

[Flickerdart]

First, look up "Uncanny Forethought" in Exemplars of Evil. Notice how you can take a full found action to cast any spell you know. Look up the "Spontaneous Diviner" ACF. Enjoy spontaneous casting.
Sadly, Spontaneous Divination was errata'd to only work on spells you know, so it doesn't help at all.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Incantatrix is good, but you don't really need more than 3 levels unless you have nothing better to take. 4 are a good stopping point just because you get another free metamagic feat.

If you're going for pure power and don't mind a little hassle 5 or 10 levels of Red Wizard or Hathran are pretty hard to top. Circle Magic is essentially a free Empower and Maximize, and the Heighten is a +11-18 to spell DC's in addition to its other benefits. That doesn't even take into account the benefits of having CL 40 long before epic levels.
You can fuel Circle Magic with Simulacrum and Ice Assassin.

Mage of the Arcane Order isn't bad, but it doesn't add much that you can't get from Uncanny Forethought either, at least not compared to some other options. I don't really see a reason to take it when you can get the feat.


Next, go Incantrix. Take Item Familiar and invest skill points for a double-high bonus to Spellcraft. Enjoy essentially metamagic. Quicken, Persist, and or Dazing spell everything.

Does anyone actually read the description of Cooperative Metamagic and Metamagic Effect? Because i've seen that mentioned a lot lately and it doesn't actually work that way.

You can use neither with Quicken, the first because it's explicitly forbidden and the second simply because of the way the ability works (it's applied after casting).
You can use Cooperative Metamagic on damage spells, but to use it on your own spells you'd need Body outside Body or a similar trick to make a clone with the ability.
You can't use Metamagic Effect on most blasting spells, or indeed any instantaneous spell, again because of the way the ability works.

And unless you abuse Body outside Body, which you'll get at level 13 at the earliest, to get effectively unlimited uses out of those abilities you're limited to 3 + int uses per day of each. That's not exactly free metamagic on everything.


I'm not saying Incantatrix isn't powerful. It is. But it's not the limitless free application of any metamagic feat you pick up that people portray it as.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Sadly, Spontaneous Divination was errata'd to only work on spells you know, so it doesn't help at all.
You can still spontaneously convert any spell you don't want into any divination in your spellbook. That's a real nice ability.

Or, if you don't want that, you can use the Conjurer Specialist Wizard ACF (UA) to convert spells into summons instead.

[Nyan]

Okay now with a bit more information at my disposal I have some updates.

1. Im going with pathfinder wizard for my base class cause with the current setup that we have is so much better. (Cause if I pick the dnd wizard I wont be able to cast spells from my banned schools like I could do if im a wizard from pathfinder. And I get the shift ability.)
2. He adviced me against leadership and npc companions in general so doing things with red wizard and Hethran is out the window. unless those classes are still good without peons to use and almost no amount of downtime to set something like that up.
3. Item crafting will not cost any exp like in pathfinder so im taking craft wonderous items. But that is the only feat so far im sure I want to take.
4. I have been looking at Incantrix and besides the extra meta magic feats I dont really understand how the other abilities are usefull (mostly cause i doubt we are going to encounter etherial creatures at all) How exactly do I use incantrix in the broken way people say it is?
5. If not incantrix for all 10 levels what other classes should I pick and how many incantrix levels do I go for exactly?...
6. Having in mind all the classes I will choose how should my feat progression look like since the prc's has seirtant requirments? And which feats should I pick beside those.

[atemu1234]

Wrong Incantatrix. Check Player's Guide to Faerun.

[Nyan]

Wrong Incantatrix. Check Player's Guide to Faerun.

is that not a 3.0 incantrix? I've read it was changed. Is it still awsome even after the change? I might convice the gm to use the old one. But what should I use if I cant use the old one?

[Andezzar]

No, Players Guide to Faerun is 3.5. The Magic of Faerun version of the Incantatrix is 3.0.


Or, if you don't want that, you can use the Conjurer Specialist Wizard ACF (UA) to convert spells into summons instead.Just saying "No" to a couple of attacks is also a nice ACF (Abrupt Jaunt) for the conjurer.

[sleepyphoenixx]

2. He adviced me against leadership and npc companions in general so doing things with red wizard and Hethran is out the window. unless those classes are still good without peons to use and almost no amount of downtime to set something like that up.


You don't really need to mess around with npc companions for Circle Magic, except that Leadership is a prerequisite for Hathran.
The common trick is to use Simulacrum to have several clones of yourself use Circle Magic among themselves to each heighten a spell to the maximum, then spend an hour on Circle Magic and have them contribute those heightened spells to you.

All you're spending is the one hour to collect spell levels from your simulacra. They can do the rest on their own, in a Portable Hole or similar extradimensional space if you include something to produce air (or don't need to breathe).

You can do this as often per day as you like and your simulacra have spells, but aside from the CL increase all the benefits are permanent until used, so you can store them up pretty much whenever you have free time. Since even a single BFC spell heightened to level 20 is pretty much a guaranteed fight ender i assume you can see the benefit.

[dascarletm]

If you trade your familiar for abrupt jaunt can you obtain an item familiar with the Obtain Familiar feat?

[Kelb_Panthera]

If you trade your familiar for abrupt jaunt can you obtain an item familiar with the Obtain Familiar feat?

No. Item familiar is its own unique feat in UA. You never could get one through obtain familiar.

[dascarletm]

No. Item familiar is its own unique feat in UA. You never could get one through obtain familiar.

I thought it required you to have a familiar like improved familiar. Silly me.

[Nyan]

Another question I have is that people recomend that I that extend spell and then persisten spell at level 6 from the first incantrix level. Why would I do this tho I could not possibly use this meta magic on any of my own spells as the persistent increases the level by 6 and at that point ill dont even have close to a level 7 spell slot yet.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Another question I have is that people recomend that I that extend spell and then persisten spell at level 6 from the first incantrix level. Why would I do this tho I could not possibly use this meta magic on any of my own spells as the persistent increases the level by 6 and at that point ill dont even have close to a level 7 spell slot yet.

Level 8 is where metamagic effect kicks in (barring early entry trickery) but after that point you can apply any metamagic you know to any active spell effect you've already placed, including persist followed by extend to make them last two days at a time.

[Nyan]

Okay so I'm going for a human for my race due to the extra feat. Now I could need some help with the feat progression.

So far I've come up with this. And we are starting at level 6.

Human bonus: Iron will
lvl 1: Improved Initiative (I'd like to know if there is any better feat to take here)
lvl 3: Item Familiar
lvl 5: Craft Wonderous items, Wizard bonus: Metamagic extend.
lvl 6 incantrix bonus: metamagic Persistent.

Now I'd like to know if there is anything better than perhaps improved initiative and what feats I should take in the future.
I know there are many feats that are like only avaliable at level 1 but I dont know if any of these are good enough.

[Kurald Galain]

lvl 1: Improved Initiative (I'd like to know if there is any better feat to take here)

Spell Focus? Cloudy Conjuration? Augment Summons?

[Nyan]

Spell Focus? Cloudy Conjuration? Augment Summons?
Good point. I will need spell focus in two schools for archmage later. Not sure ill do much summoning so perhaps I should take Spell focus (conjuration) instead?

[Andezzar]

If you plan on using Archmage, make sure your DM agrees that the class works as most people think and not by RAW. According to the rules the Caster Level of a character does not increase when he takes levels in the PrC unless he takes the Spell Power High Arcana (and that only lets him increase the CL as another level in wizard would).

[atemu1234]

If you can access Dragon Magazine familiars, there is one that gives +4 to initiative.

[elonin]

Andezzar where do you get that archmage doesn't advance casting? The table states it does.

[Andezzar]

I didn't say it didn't advance casting (i.e. spells per day and spells known) but that is does not increase the Caster Level. The table does not mention caster level just "+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class". What that means is explained in the text. According to the text the class only advances spells per day and spells known and no other feature of the spellcasting class. So Caster Level is not one of the features that are improved by the PrC contrary to many other PrCs even some from the same book.