Killing an Arch-Fey?

[Sander]

Hey playgrounders!

I'm currently in a game, playing a half-elf feylock, contracted to a good-aligned fey. A few sessions ago, after being involved with some Drow and a super mysterious scrying pool (now destroyed), my guy saw his patron doing some... uhh... things of questionable morality despite his patron usually being portrayed as exceptionally "good", including raising a former slave boy to kill seemingly innocent people and then having him kneel for her (the fey) in all his bloodsoaked glory. Haven't had much contact with said patron since, also took my last few levels in sorcerer to acknowledge how freaked my guy was about the whole thing, not wanting to deepen his dependance on his relationship with his patron. Now, if push comes to shove in the future (still only lv. 6), can you kill an archfey? If she's turning sour and this becomes the last option, I'd like to be relatively sure it can even be done - both in regards to the "lore" and mechanical power. Archfey aren't actually gods, but pretty darn close, so I'd imagine it'd be a hella tough fight, if humanly possible. Furthermore, should a warlock kill his patron, would it be feasible to take his/her power for himself, as in, assuming the mantle of Archfey? Up to the DM, obviously, but what do you think? Could be cool, I think.

[Daishain]

Anything can be killed, even the gods. (whether or not it is humanly possible is another question)

The best first step I can think of would be to bring the matter to the attention of the seelie or unseelie court (with suitable precautions taken). Even the fey have laws, at the very least you may be able to get a promise that the rest of the fey won't come howling for your head when you take down one of their nobles.

As for assuming that mantle, there might be a means for you to become an archfey yourself, the only realistic means I can think of gaining that power all to yourself. However, almost by definition, this would come with certain changes that would make your character no longer suitable for being an adventurer.

On the other hand, finding an item or bit of knowledge along the way that will let you keep your warlock abilities is rather easy to justify.

[LieblingFauk]

Well now, in my opinion that would be something you have to work out with your DM, as as far as I know none of the Arch Fey are even statted out in 5th edition. It could potentially be a grand quest you and your boon companions could set out on. If i was trying to undertake something I would consider that arch fey are like arc angles or arch devils, and are therefore orders of magnitude powerful then normal entities of their type. Think throwing down with something stronger then a solar level of power.
So yeah, I would say an Arch Fey could be permanently destroyed, but as far as I know there are no rules for it in 5th edition. By and large Arch Fey in my mind represent eternal aspects or phenomenon of the natural world and thus are immortal or demi immortal, that is to say you might be able to destroy their mortal vessel but like demons they pop back to the abyss FURIOUS.
If that is the case, it might be necessary to get some sort of ritual together to either bind it or seal it away or drain a large part of its power or neutralize its immorality in order to really have the potential to kill it without being level 20 or higher. But then, my outlook on fey has been heavily shadowed by the Dresden Files Series of novels by Jim Butcher.
Please forgive me, I realize that this post is kind of ambiguous but it is hard for me to give you concrete directions or guidance for something like you are asking. I like how you represented your characters moral distress or unease by pursuing your sorcerer levels. I made a Great Old One warlock/ sorcerer that I really enjoyed.

[Sigreid]

Anything can be killed, even the gods. (whether or not it is humanly possible is another question)

The best first step I can think of would be to bring the matter to the attention of the seelie or unseelie court (with suitable precautions taken). Even the fey have laws, at the very least you may be able to get a promise that the rest of the fey won't come howling for your head when you take down one of their nobles.

As for assuming that mantle, there might be a means for you to become an archfey yourself, the only realistic means I can think of gaining that power all to yourself. However, almost by definition, this would come with certain changes that would make your character no longer suitable for being an adventurer.

On the other hand, finding an item or bit of knowledge along the way that will let you keep your warlock abilities is rather easy to justify.

RAW a warlock's power is taught by the patron, not derived from it. Except the pact feature (weapon, grimoire, pet)

[Talyn]

That is a question for your DM, and each DM is different. If I were running, the "my warlock made a pact with a seemingly benevolent archfey, and is now recoiling in horror and wants to stop them by any means necessary" would be a awesome character arc and one I would make sure to support.

Your DM, though, might not want you to pursue a character arc that either (a) distracts from his main plot too much or (b) might put him at odds with the rest of the party.

In short, if your DM wants you to be able to defeat, destroy, or even redeem your nigh-godlike patron, you will be able to, and if he doesn't want you to be able to, it will never happen. This is the sort of thing that is best addressed out-of-character, between sessions, so that everyone is in the same boat as far as expectations go.

[JakOfAllTirades]

I'd expect killing an Arch-Fey to be a challenge for high-level characters, if it's possible at all.

OTOH, I had a warlock in similar situation once (back in the days of 3.5e) and he decided to make a pact with another patron. It made for an interesting game, and eventually (at epic levels) we killed his former patron.

[Mara]

I would probably call the archfey a cr30 encounter. So good luck.

[Coidzor]

Your DM, though, might not want you to pursue a character arc that either (a) distracts from his main plot too much or (b) might put him at odds with the rest of the party.

Sure, but it's quite bizarre for the DM to have set up the story for such and then not want the game to progress in that direction.

Downright sloppy if they accidentally'd all that.


I'd expect killing an Arch-Fey to be a challenge for high-level characters, if it's possible at all.

It's just an Arch-Fey. It's not like the players got the damn fool notion of bumping off Asmodeus or anything. :smallamused:

[Sigreid]

Sure, but it's quite bizarre for the DM to have set up the story for such and then not want the game to progress in that direction.

Downright sloppy if they accidentally'd all that.



It's just an Arch-Fey. It's not like the players got the damn fool notion of bumping off Asmodeus or anything. :smallamused:

If you interpret arch fey along the lines of traditional celtic sidhe, Asmodeous might be easier.

[Nerdguy88]

On the other hand, finding an item or bit of knowledge along the way that will let you keep your warlock abilities is rather easy to justify.

This could actually be really easy to do. If you bring it to the court and they say "OH MY HOW HORRIBLE" Then part of their deal might be "Help us take this corrupt person down and we will honor your warlock pact so that you may keep your powers."

[Inevitability]

I would probably call the archfey a cr30 encounter. So good luck.

I'd put it somewhere around CR 22-25, before including minions.

Archfey are the undisputed rulers of their plane, but they are not on the same level as gods. Fluff-wise, it is the same for demon lords. With Out of the Abyss, we've gained a reasonable system for determining how strong demon lords are in general, so I'd say archfey are about as powerful.

[Sander]

Great suggestions guys! Keep 'em coming :)
On another note, we actually had a session today in which I (unknowingly) stumbled upon some sort of prophecy suggesting a Fey that might be my patron was turning to the Winter Court and some other equally nasty stuff, so something seems to be brewing. Coincidentally, I aired the idea of her either redeeming herself or me revealing her transgressions to the Seelie Court and possibly dethroning her. He seemed fairly open to it, mystically noting that he "already had something along those lines planned". Now my main problem, for the time being, seems to be my Pixie familiar who seems a tad too attached to my patron rather than myself, for my own comfort... this might get ugly

Also, on the note of Archfey not being as powerful as gods: In our homebrewed setting (should probably have mentioned that, oh well), gods aren't really anything more than supposed superstition as our world was cut from theirs long ago, and any knowledge pertaining to such is part of a great mystery otherwise known as "the old world". The gods still existing is very much assumed, but if so, they wouldn't be anywhere near the usual powerlevel of a god. Archfey would be somewhere along those lines as well, so defeating one might not be entirely impossible, certainly not CR30-ish :P

[Coidzor]

If you interpret arch fey along the lines of traditional celtic sidhe, Asmodeous might be easier.

Well, he'll certainly leave a nice cup of tea for the party to relax with until he's ready to see them at any rate. :smallamused:

[Sigreid]

Well, he'll certainly leave a nice cup of tea for the party to relax with until he's ready to see them at any rate. :smallamused:

Oh yes, by all means eat and drink anything an arch fey gives you! :smallwink:

Seriously though, the Celts were a warlike people, and their sidhe could kill you with what was meant to be a lighthearted joke.

[Coidzor]

Oh yes, by all means eat and drink anything an arch fey gives you! :smallwink:

Seriously though, the Celts were a warlike people, and their sidhe could kill you with what was meant to be a lighthearted joke.

You're not at all aware of Asmodeus's reputation, are you?

[The Glyphstone]

You're not at all aware of Asmodeus's reputation, are you?

He is, after all, a man of wealth and taste.

[Sigreid]

You're not at all aware of Asmodeus's reputation, are you?

Oh, I am. The point is the sidhe may kill you with their joke and not have meant to, and be genuinely surprised that you're dead.

[Coidzor]

Oh, I am. The point is the sidhe may kill you with their joke and not have meant to, and be genuinely surprised that you're dead.

That's nice, but we have no reason to really care now that we know you understand what was said to you.

[somehownotsingl]

This could actually be really easy to do. If you bring it to the court and they say "OH MY HOW HORRIBLE" Then part of their deal might be "Help us take this corrupt person down and we will honor your warlock pact so that you may keep your powers."

This would be more how I would approach it if I was DMing such a situation.

In my mind, the death of the arch fey would be accomplished "off-table" by other arch fey ... BUT the PCs could help by completing quests that:

--provide irrefutable evidence
OR
--free some other archfey or powerful fey servants that would be needed to pull it off ("off in yonder castle with lots of mean high CR's sits imprisoned ..."),
OR
--find rare ingredients needed for whatever ceremony, spell, etc the court uses for such executions

You get the idea!

While a direct fight would be difficult, being involved with the demise of your patron might not be that difficult at all!