Threads I've read colour bug?

[Ikkitosen]

So, almost all of the threads now show up brown when I log into the forum, despite the fact I haven't looked at all of them and thus they must have new (to me) posts. This has only just happened. Is it a deliberate change to the board or a bug, maybe?

[Captain van der Decken]

You probably hit the mark forums as read button by accident. Maybe not though.

[Emperor Tippy]

I doubt it. Unless I did as well.

Because all forums showed up as completely read once the boards started behaving again. And I don't believe I hit the button.

[Matthew]

Indeed. Happened to me too. Also, I logged off and logged on again only to find that Threads I had read had been restored to their previous status (i.e. unread). Weird.

[Samiam303]

Happened here too. Quite odd.

[Ikkitosen]

Logged out, logged back in and now they're all "read". Good idea to investigate Matthew.

[Khantalas]

Yeah. I tried that, too, and now they're all read.

What's going on here?

[Emperor Tippy]

Yeah, this is quite annoying.

[Nerd-o-rama]

This seems to be a recurrent thing. Likely, it has something to do with whatever server hiccup occurred earlier, and/or whatever the staff did to fix it.

[Emperor Tippy]

Ok. The thread read thing seems to be really messed up. It is showing threads having new posts when they don't, it is showing threads that I have just read and clicked back to the forum (such as gaming) and hit refresh as unread.

It is then deciding that some things are read when they aren't.

It seems very messed up.

[Reptilius]

I logged out and then back in, and now it says that I've read every single post in every single thread.

[Rawhide]

This is not a bug. This is how it worked on YaBB and all versions of vBulletin prior to 3.5.

Until the server issues are resolved at least to the extent that we can switch it back on, whats read/unread is now handled by cookies. Having the database store information on read/unread status for 17,876 users and having to query (and update) the forum database every time a page is loaded by anyone is very taxing on a server with 40,354 threads.

The cookie deleted when you log out.

[Emperor Tippy]

Well its still a pain in the anus. Will it ever be coming back?

[Ikkitosen]

Gotcha. Thanks for the explanation Rawhide (by the way, I sang you at karaoke a week or so ago. Head 'em up!)

[Bookman]

This is not a bug. This is how it worked on YaBB and all versions of vBulletin prior to 3.5.

Until the server issues are resolved at least to the extent that we can switch it back on, whats read/unread is now handled by cookies. Having the database store information on read/unread status for 17,876 users and having to query (and update) the forum database every time a page is loaded by anyone is very taxing on a server with 40,354 threads.

The cookie deleted when you log out.

But I haven't logged out.........

[Zherog]

But I haven't logged out.........

Based on my experience with the cookie over on WotC's boards, it will do exactly that. At random intervals it'll just decide you've read everything, whether you've logged out or not. You don't even need to leave the site.

[Bookman]

Based on my experience with the cookie over on WotC's boards, it will do exactly that. At random intervals it'll just decide you've read everything, whether you've logged out or not. You don't even need to leave the site.

How are the random intervals determined?

I hate when computers get uppity and think they're in charge of everything....... :wink:

But at least it explains things a little more clearer

[Amotis]

It happens when they change something.

*goes for the window*

*brickwall*

Noooooo!!!!

[Zherog]

How are the random intervals determined?

If I knew that, it wouldn't exactly be random, would it? :smallbiggrin:

[Nerd-o-rama]

Posts getting marked read without your logging out may also be caused by how your browser handles cookies; personally, I have Firefox clear my cookies from most sites whenever I close it, so my "new post" cookies are removed. Perhaps I should add a new exception...

Upon consideration of my "exceptions" window, this is not the problem. Huh.

[Rawhide]

But I haven't logged out.........

Well, for one, when I flicked the switch to an entirely different system, all record keeping would have been lost.

[SDF]

It happens when they change something.

*goes for the window*

*brickwall*

Noooooo!!!!

From the wiiiiindooooooooow to the waaalllllll!!!

How long until we have to communicate in binary? :smalltongue: On a mildly more serious note, are these changes helping with down times? I haven't noticed any change in the frequency of downtimes on the forums. I may just be inattentive, I can't be sure. *holds breath* *passes out*

[Rawhide]

They have, my inbox is no longer flooded with WARNING, CRITICAL, WARNING, OK emails. I still get them, but with less frequency.

[Charity]

Who else really wants to send Raw one of these e-mails now?

*looks at the sea of raised hands*

Thought so...

[Deadly]

Ok, this is not just a little annoying, it's insane. It's completely impossible to keep track of anything, now. There's a very good reason I never used that "mark all as read" button.

I can understand the problem, but couldn't you atleast set the expiration of the cookies a little higher so they aren't deleted constantly?

[Azrael]

Who else really wants to send Raw one of these e-mails now?

*looks at the sea of raised hands*

Thought so...


Even his avatar has it's hand raised...

[Penguinsushi]

apparently the read / not read info is being handled only by cookies and sessions now. This would not be a big deal but for two things i've observed:

1) Even if you don't logout, if you're away from your computer for a while, the session ends and the info seems to reset. (This makes me think that its relying on session data moreso than cookies, or that the cookies expire after a few hours.)

2) If the system/cookies/session has reset (for logging out or inactivity or whatever) or otherwise has no info that you HAVEN'T read the most recent post, it seems to assume you have and colours it accordingly. It seems to me that the other way around would be slightly better, but I guess it's not built that way.

In any case, the end result is that the read/not read colouration is pretty useless to people like me who are active/inactive a lot, and who only read a handful of threads anyway.

I do understand that some things have to be sacrificed to account for the server load, and that you trim queries/functions where the inconvenience is least.

~PS

[Meat Shield]

Everyone, you have to realize that any complaints you have over this are complaints about a free service that Rich and Rawhide (and everyone else behind the scenes) provide to you. Deal with it.

Rawhide, I know you are doing your best. Keep it up.

[Penguinsushi]

Everyone, you have to realize that any complaints you have over this are complaints about a free service that Rich and Rawhide (and everyone else behind the scenes) provide to you. Deal with it.

Rawhide, I know you are doing your best. Keep it up.

Good point, and I totally agree.

However, I don't think all of the posts here are meant as complaints. I think we're just questioning what's going on and trying to understand how it's currently functioning. At least, I know that's where I was coming from...

~PS

[Meat Shield]

If it was a little harsh I'm sorry Penguin. It was meant as a reply to more than just this thread as well, because I have seen a whole lotta complaining lately over something that the complainers don't have a right to complain about.

[Penguinsushi]

If it was a little harsh I'm sorry Penguin. It was meant as a reply to more than just this thread as well, because I have seen a whole lotta complaining lately over something that the complainers don't have a right to complain about.

Nah, you're right. It's free. Just because we've gotten used to it a certain way, doesn't mean we're now somehow entitled to it. I just wanted to say that I don't think everyone is yelling at the site admins. Sometimes it's hard to tell on here, I think.

:smallsmile:

~PS

[Ego Slayer]

Ahha! I thought I'd hit the "Mark all forums read" button again (I hate when I do that!:smalltongue:) Eh, whatever.

[Rex Idiotarum]

Well, it's a good thing to note that You are automatically Logged out after... what 20 minutes? When you have your cookies set, it automatically logs you back in after some time. You know when you're typing a really long post on a computer without the cookie, and it says you weren't logged in, but you were, well, now you're unread posts have just been reset as well. Interesting concept, what everyone should do is read up on threads that are interesting to them, when they get back.

[Ego Slayer]

Yeah, this is slightly annoying. But we can deal until it comes back, eh.:smallconfused:

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Everyone, you have to realize that any complaints you have over this are complaints about a free service that Rich and Rawhide (and everyone else behind the scenes) provide to you.
That's not exactly an entirely valid way of responding to issues. When something ceases to work as it should, it ceases to be a service. So it may remain free, but it ain't a free service. It's instead free "somethingelse" (I'll let the reader decide upon the best term).

In any case, the purpose of the Board Issues forum is precisely to provide feedback so that this free item remains in the realm of service rather than the realm of "somethingelse".

The price or lack thereof of a particular item or service may determine what constitutes reasonable feedback and a reasonable response to that feedback, but it should never affect your ability to make that feedback.

In this case, if a person feels the current status of the marked as read indicator is such that it is no longer a service, as indicated by describing it as "useless", that person certainly has every right to make comment. After all, if it's not a proper service, why should anyone even bother taking it or even offering it to others?

[Penguinsushi]

Your statements are also true - I think Meat Shield was just saying there's a difference between pointing out the problem (which the administration is probably already aware of) or asking about its resolution and just being indignant over it. (and I was agreeing.)


The price or lack thereof of a particular item or se[r]vice may determine what constit[u]tes reasonable feedback and a reasonable response to that feedback, but it should never give [or take away] your ability to make that feedback.

I think you hit on it perfectly there.

(p.s. hopefully you don't mind my bracketed statements in your quote, which are intended only to clarify what I think you were implying. :smalleek: )

~PS

[Jack Squat]

hmm...I seem to be having the opposite problem. It doesn't seem to register when I read the new posts of a thread, so when I come back on the "first new post" button takes me back to posts I've already read.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Your statements are also true - I think Meat Shield was just saying there's a difference between pointing out the problem (which the administration is probably already aware of) or asking about its resolution and just being indignant over it. (and I was agreeing.)
Well, I certainly wasn't interpereting any posts here as indignant. And the "It's free! Don't complain!" line tends, from my point of view, to be tossed out a bit too liberally. It is often applied to valid comments. Drives me up the wall, personally.


(p.s. hopefully you don't mind my bracketed statements in your quote, which are intended only to clarify what I think you were implying. :smalleek: )
Oh, I don't mind. The "or take away" part is what I meant to emphasize in the first place. I just posted too quickly.

Now, I just thought I'd add that the changes to the "read/unread threads" system also make the "Go to First Unread Post" feature unreliable. I've just ran into several threads that I haven't read at all, and, out of reflex, I hit the "Go to First Unread" button, and it took me to the end of the thread. Normally, this would just jump you past the menus at the top to the first post, so I pretty much always used that button whether or not I had been following the thread to begin with.

Now, in light of my previous post, I'd say that makes the "First Unread Post" approaching uselessness. It still has it's uses in a single, short-term session. But I think it's strength was in spreading it out over multiple long-term sessions.

So, take from that what you will. Right now, I only offer it up as an observation. No particular goal in mind.

[Ditto]

Is this happening to people's subscription list, too? Things that I'd just checked stay in the 'new' docket for about an hour after I've read them, even though they're marked brown/read.

[Ego Slayer]

Here. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2627611#post2627611) I don't even use the subscriptions, but there are threads there with the same problem you mention.

Nice quote in your sig, btw.:smallwink:

[Ikkitosen]

Yeah, I don't think Rawhide took it badly (if so, sorry man), but I posted this thread more as a "huh, I noticed this problem and thought you might like to know" than a "FIX MY BOARDS NOW MUTHA SUCKA!!" kinda thing :smallwink:.

That's my opinion of what Board Issues is for really.

[Scientivore]

If it was a little harsh I'm sorry Penguin. It was meant as a reply to more than just this thread as well, because I have seen a whole lotta complaining lately over something that the complainers don't have a right to complain about.

I do not share your perspective. I've seen a whole lot of questioning and requesting being done. Everyone has every right to make any (non-TOS violating) questions and requests that we please, just as the mods are free to ignore us or say no.

[Icewalker]

Well I must say I find it massively annoying, but oh well. Better than not having the forum.

[Fax Celestis]

I must say that I would think it to make a bit more sense if it treated all threads as not being read on cookie clear, but...//shrug

We've already discovered other, nonintuitive features of this board system (I'm looking at you, Search), and another one isn't really a big deal.

[Jacob Orlove]

I must say that I would think it to make a bit more sense if it treated all threads as not being read on cookie clear, but...//shrug
Wow, that would be almost impossibly frustrating. People would constantly be checking "new" threads, only to find no new posts. If that's the alternative, I much prefer the current system.

[Uberblah]

I've got the opposite problem. Whenever I'm logged in and close out (not minimize) my internet window and reopen it and go to the forums, all the threads are unread, even if I was the last to post in it. It's weird.

[Ego Slayer]

Heh, nice, Uber. :smalltongue:

I know the threads I want to check, anyway, and I'm used to forums without a "View first unread" button when everything shows up as read... though, I love that button so much. >.>

[Shhalahr Windrider]

I've got the opposite problem. Whenever I'm logged in and close out (not minimize) my internet window and reopen it and go to the forums, all the threads are unread, even if I was the last to post in it. It's weird.
That's the way it's supposed to be for now. Fax was suggesting it be changed to the other way around.

Personally, I don't see much difference in the convenience of either strategy.

[Uberblah]

Heh, nice, Uber. :smalltongue:

I know the threads I want to check, anyway, and I'm used to forums without a "View first unread" button when everything shows up as read... though, I love that button so much. >.>

That's the problem. If I click that. It brings back to the first unread from the night before. Every time after I close my internet window. After that it's fine.

[Velvet Elvis]

Oh well. Back in the old days, I used to keep track of all my threads by hand, because there was no other way.

I've gotten lazy and grumpy.

I hope we see this particular item, if few others, come back. IMO, it is one of the top two or three tchotchkes the site transfer offered that I've become mostly reliant upon.

Oh, and I wouldn't want to be Rawhide. His perch looks desirable, but on further study...my condolences. ;)

[Inyssius Tor]

I must just be a spoiled new kid or something, because I find that lack of this feature makes the forums more irritating than the downtimes did. Also, I repeatedly find myself rechecking threads that haven't updated, which might contribute to the server problems (sorry).



[Not to complain or anything, because I have utmost respect for Rich Burlew and everyone who works to keep these forums awesome and not broken]

[Ego Slayer]

Also, I repeatedly find myself rechecking threads that haven't updated, which might contribute to the server problems (sorry).
Well... if you check a thread at, say, 2pm, blah blah blah, just glance at what time the last person posted at, you log off. You come back at 7pm... look at the last person who posted, and what time it was at.

Dunno, but that's what I do so make sure I'm not constantly checking threads with no new posts.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Well... if you check a thread at, say, 2pm, blah blah blah, just glance at what time the last person posted at, you log off. You come back at 7pm... look at the last person who posted, and what time it was at.
Kinda hard to keep it all straight if you happen to watch a whole lot of threads, though.

[Ego Slayer]

I keep track of quite a few... but, I've got nothing better to do than remember stuff like that. S'just what I do, that's all.

[Azrael]

I guess there's always plan ... f) for you to fall back on.

f) Get frustrated enough not to post.

I understand it helps with the server load, too. :smallamused:

[El Jaspero, the Pirate King]

I have to agree with the general sentiment that this change makes using the boards really hard on my poor lil' rum-addled brain. I feel like I need to at least look at every single sub-forum now before I log out or I might miss something, especially on forums I enjoy but don't necessarily watch carefully. I understand this paring of features is helping with server load, but I'm starting to wonder less what's going to go next and more what's actually going to be left.

[Raistlin1040]

It freaks me out. Like I'll leave, come back and won't see a new post. Then like 24 hours later I get a PM like "Where are you?" and have to go read through everything.

[Velvet Elvis]

This change is, unlike the others (to my experience), rather insidious.

It takes a while to get used to the fact that those threads that do show up with green balls (ahem), are misleading.

Many other threads may have been updated as well, so you're kinda forced to check each of them (more pageloads) or manually check each date/poster to see if it looks like it's been updated.

Then when you click the icon that's supposed to take you to the next unread article--or used to--it might, or it might not.

The net result is that this issue can be considered a step backwards beyond the baseline because it can actually screw you up if you're not aware of the quirks. Whereas other changes render things just "not there," which is easily dealt with.

Observation, not complaint. I'm back to my old manual "last post" logging to I can navigate without dozens of wasted pageloads, so I'm good. Still pine for the "old days," though. :smallbiggrin:

[Rex Idiotarum]

Me I can get by on pure memory alone, but if you are having trouble, just take out a piece of paper, copy down the thread name and the number of posts. If the number of posts you have written down is < the number they they have now, guess what, there's a new post.

[Rawhide]

Believe it or not, this is exactly how YaBB behaved, y'all just been spoilt.

There is no need to complain further*, I know you don't like it, neither do I, but the only thing I can say is, get used to it. It is not changing back until the issue is resolved.

*This is me politely telling you to stop complaining.

[Charity]

*Sends the bandwagon home*

Awww

[Velvet Elvis]

Me I can get by on pure memory alone, but if you are having trouble, just take out a piece of paper, copy down the thread name and the number of posts. If the number of posts you have written down is < the number they they have now, guess what, there's a new post.


Believe it or not, this is exactly how YaBB behaved, y'all just been spoilt.

Yeah, I kinda said these things already. That's what I meant by the "old days" or pre-server switch, when I did all this by hand (and I'm fine now; really; I'm down to just one sedative).

Yes, everything good spoils a person. We can't help it if we're grumpy for a while when we have to go from first class back to coach, even if the trip's free. :smallwink:

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Yes, everything good spoils a person. We can't help it if we're grumpy for a while when we have to go from first class back to coach, even if the trip's free. :smallwink:
Hey! Nice summary of 90% of the Board Issues threads from the past month! :smallbiggrin: