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lillitheris
2007-05-21, 05:43 PM
I'm starting in a new epic level game and I've found myself needing to select 19 feats. Considering the sheer wealth of feats available in all of the many different books, I'm finding choosing 19 little feats maddening.

So, I'm asking for help.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

I'll be playing a level 20 fighter/9 Warblade.

Emperor Tippy
2007-05-21, 05:45 PM
May I ask, and I don't mean this to be offensive, why exactly are you grabbing 20 levels of fighter in an EPIC game?

Douglas
2007-05-21, 05:46 PM
Even sticking with just those two classes, Warblade 20/Fighter 9 would be vastly superior, especially if taken in that order so that all the bonus feats from fighter levels could be epic.

lillitheris
2007-05-21, 05:48 PM
The DM handed us each character concepts and this one was mine.

Dark_Wind
2007-05-21, 05:50 PM
Or Wizard 29. What!? I'm not the only one who was thinking it! Seriously, though, unless you, as a melee character, wish to be outclassed by the casters more than you already will be, scrap some (read:most) of those fighter levels for something useful, like initiator levels or a PrC or two.

EDIT: Ninja'd. Ouch. I'd hit my DM with a sourcebook if he ever forced a build on me and said "play this". If he ever tried to force a build that was that bad on me, I'd drop all of my sourcebooks on his head. From great height.

lillitheris
2007-05-21, 05:53 PM
Perhaps I should be more precise in saying, I was told I was playing a level 20 fighter/ 9 warblade. The rest was for me to fill in.

Yeah, I wasn't real thrilled about it. There were a stack of characters to choose from and I was the second to the last to choose and trust me, it was better than the other 3 left.

The_Pyre
2007-05-21, 06:04 PM
Well, maybe we ought to start with stuff you ought not get, like... uhh... hmmm... where do we start? :smallbiggrin:

By the way, I'm pretty curious what the 3 others are. How bad are they, really, and what is your DM planning that he'd make so many poor choices available?

Emperor Tippy
2007-05-21, 06:06 PM
Hmmm

I recommend that you die in the first battle and ask to build a character that can actually survive at Epic levels.

How do ToB classes work in epic anyways? I haven't seen anything published by WoTC about it.

Talya
2007-05-21, 06:09 PM
On the plus side, the initiator level of that character starts at 19.

What order were the classes taken in? I don't imagine the DM worked that out for you...but it really matters.

Every 2 fighter levels count as a single level of warblade, for their initiator level. This gives you access to the highest level maneuvers and stances in the book. I believe martial study and the like are also valid fighter bonus feats, meaning you could really trick out that warblade. Even at 20ftr/9warblade, you can end up being more warblade than fighter.

Emperor Tippy
2007-05-21, 06:14 PM
Hmm.

What books are allowed?

Please say everything.

And what setting?

Please say Forgotten realms.

lillitheris
2007-05-21, 06:18 PM
Triumph!

OK, after much complaining (pretty much all day), he said I can make my second set of levels whatever I want. However, I have to keep the warblade as this is part of his story. So, I'll be playing a level 20 warblade/9 (to be determined and open to suggestions). No psionics in the world.

It is a dragonlance/forgotten realms cross-over world.

All books are allowed.

This still leaves me needing feats.

Talya
2007-05-21, 06:20 PM
Triumph!

OK, after much complaining (pretty much all day), he said I can make my second set of levels whatever I want. However, I have to keep the warblade as this is part of his story. So, I'll be playing a level 20 warblade/9 (to be determined and open to suggestions).

20 warblade/9 dervish would be godly, but using a PrC for those 9 might be a bit much for your DM.

It would impact your feats chosen, though.

Emperor Tippy
2007-05-21, 06:22 PM
Hmm.

Well I was goign to say play Pun-Pun to show the DM the error of his ways. But he apparently decided to be nice.

Well warblade has no epic progression so you can't take the last 9 levels in that. Putting all 9 in fighter would get you some nice epic bonus feats.

But lets face it, your a non caster in epic. You lose.

lillitheris
2007-05-21, 06:23 PM
Which books is the dervish in?

Talya
2007-05-21, 06:24 PM
Hmm.

Well I was goign to say play Pun-Pun to show the DM the error of his ways. But he apparently decided to be nice.

Well warblade has no epic progression so you can't take the last 9 levels in that. Putting all 9 in fighter would get you some nice epic bonus feats.

But lets face it, your a non caster in epic. You lose.

As long as they can get flight, some of those top level martial maneuvers rival 9th level spells.

And perhaps the DM will "just say no" to the ******** that is epic spellcasting.

JaronK
2007-05-21, 06:25 PM
Warblade 20/Swashbuckler 3/Invisible Blade 5/Monk 1 might be interesting... Grab a pair of Lifedrinker Kukris (Lifedrinker is a special weapon in the DMG... it's usually a longsword but changing weapon type shouldn't be a problem). Be a Necropolitan Human, and use Blood in the Water. Now every time you hit, they take 2 negative levels and you gain some temporary hitpoints. If Necropolitan isn't allowed, get Tomb Tainted Soul... same thing, for this purpose.

Go for as many attacks as you can get. Get Carmendine Monk for Int to AC twice. You'll be the smartest crazed feral warrior ever.

JaronK

Counterpower
2007-05-21, 06:34 PM
First: He gave you a build, and the first thing we do is question the concept? What is so hard about just answering his question instead of just turning this into another wizard v. fighter debate?

Anyway, for feats: If you want, you could supplement the warblade's low selection of manuvers and/or stances with Martial Study or Martial Stance. But then again, that's me as a definite swordsage person speaking, so I may just be used to lots of manuvers. Most of the rest of ToB feats are style-specific, but I do recommend Adaptive Style. The ability to change what manuvers you have available in one round will almost certainly be useful. Beyond that, I would go with the best style-specific weapon you can find and augment it with the appropriate feats. Obviously, if you want TWF, the relevant feats will be necessary. Power Attack for THF, etc. For a warblade, the Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization feat lines probably might not be a bad idea, especially since you can switch them to any weapon with that weapon and 1 hour's worth of free time.

Hope that helps.

Fourth Tempter
2007-05-21, 06:36 PM
Dervish is normally very good, but it is a poor fit for the Warblade--Warblades have maneuvers, and as such will be likely to use them rather than taking full attack actions. Warblades are also already mobile, rendering Dervish Dance rather irrelevant.

Must you take 20 levels of Warblade? If not, I suggest a Jade Phoenix Mage warrior/spellcaster. You will start as a warblade and use maneuvers as a warblade, but also be able to cast spells.

If you must have 20 Warblade levels, your best options would be to mutliclass into Ur-Priest (if you do not mind being Eeeeeeeeevil), or a Tome of Battle class or Prestige Class, such as Crusader or Eternal Blade.

Attempt to convince the spellcasters in your party to either avoid the Epic Spellcasting feat, or to craft Epic Spells for you that will help you be effective (and survive).

Edited to add: Counterpower, the difficulty people are having with the initial build is the essentially total unviability of the Fighter in epic levels. The Fighter is a poor enough class in high-level play; in epic, where Epic Spellcasting is essentially the only thing that matters, and if you ignore it you have feats such as Multispell, Automatic Quicken Spell, Improved Metamagic, and the like, playing a Fighter is akin to sitting out nine out of ten fights.

Talya
2007-05-21, 06:44 PM
Dervish is normally very good, but it is a poor fit for the Warblade--Warblades have maneuvers, and as such will be likely to use them rather than taking full attack actions. Warblades are also already mobile, rendering Dervish Dance rather irrelevant.


Two reasons why that's not necessarily true:

1) Not all maneuvers are unavailable during a dervish dance. Sure, Strikes are. But Boosts and Counters work just fine while dancing. Not to mention stances. Best dervish I've ever seen made awesome use of stances, boosts, and counters.

2) You don't always dervish dance. Strikes are good in those cases where you can't, or it's not optimal.

lillitheris
2007-05-21, 06:47 PM
The main reason I decided to ask for help was because I haven't played a epic character since AD&D. That was an entirely different beast.

Frankly, I have no idea what fighters are like in epic games as I haven't played one in 3.5. From the sounds of it, I'm likely going to die instantaneously or perhaps wish I could die instantaneously.

The sheer volume of information is completely mind boggling and since I have to have the majority of what he gave me, I thought I'd just ask for help.

Since I'm stuck with the warblade regardless, I'd like to do the best I can with the 9 levels I've got to play with.

Oh, and they can't be evil. They have to be true neutral up.

Fourth Tempter
2007-05-21, 06:48 PM
That is true, but many of the Warblade's most potent maneuvers are Strikes. Each and every one of the ninth-level maneuvers is a strike; White Raven Hammer, Diamond Nightmare Blade, Swooping Dragon Strike, Lightning Throw... a Dervish build could certainly work, and better than I first thought, but it would be sacrificing a lot.
There would also be the terrible decision of giving up Dance of a Thousand Cuts or Stance Mastery (I would keep Stance Mastery).

Fourth Tempter
2007-05-21, 07:02 PM
The main reason I decided to ask for help was because I haven't played a epic character since AD&D. That was an entirely different beast.

Frankly, I have no idea what fighters are like in epic games as I haven't played one in 3.5. From the sounds of it, I'm likely going to die instantaneously or perhaps wish I could die instantaneously.

The sheer volume of information is completely mind boggling and since I have to have the majority of what he gave me, I thought I'd just ask for help.

Since I'm stuck with the warblade regardless, I'd like to do the best I can with the 9 levels I've got to play with.

Very well--if you must take 20 levels of Warblade, so be it. It is a significant improvement on 20 levels of Fighter.

Human Warblade 1: Aberrant Blood (Lords of Madness), Stand Still
Warblade 3: Power Attack
Warblade 5: Combat Reflexes (Bonus)
Warblade 6: Aberrant Reach (LoM)
Warblade 9: Ironheart Aura (Bonus)
Warblade 9: Stormguard Warrior
Warblade 12: Robilar's Gambit (PHB II)
Warblade 13: Endurance (Bonus)
Warblade 15: Steadfast Determination (PHB II)
Warblade 18: Adaptive Style

If you can take Flaws, I suggest Shaky for Improved Unarmed Strike and Vulnerable for Deflect Arrows. This will allow you to take Infinite Deflection and Exceptional Deflection in epic levels.

You have several options, here.
-Play a Changeling, lose Adaptive Style and move the other feats down as appropriate for loss of the Human Bonus Feat, and enter the Complete Warrior's Warshaper prestige class, for which changelings qualify. Follow this up with Crusader or Swordsage. This would get you extra reach, a natural attack, +4 Strength and Constitution, immunity to critical hits, and other benefits. Follow up with levels of Crusader or Swordsage.
-Enter Crusader or Swordsage (or both) on their own. This will give you a second set of maneuvers, including ninth-level ones.
-Enter the Eternal Blade prestige class in the Tome of Battle. This will give you fewer maneuvers, but a number of useful Intelligence-based abilities that synergize well with the Warblade.

Do any of these strike you as particularily appealing?

lillitheris
2007-05-21, 07:08 PM
I'm gonna go look at Crusader and Swordsage right now. I think the feats sound brilliant. I can take flaws.

This is helping me out a lot, thanks.

Fourth Tempter
2007-05-21, 08:09 PM
Probably the best way to go is, in fact, a Changeling Warshaper. Warblade 20/Warshaper 3/Swordsage 1/Crusader 5, say. With your Crusader levels, select Devoted Spirit maneuvers; you should be able to take the eighth and ninth level strikes.

-An example maneuver combination: Greater Divine Surge, Strike of Righteous Vitality, and White Raven Tactics. Attack someone with Greater Divine Surge. Sacrifice as much Constitution as you are allowed for massive damage. Then use White Raven Tactics to grant yourself another turn. During that turn, use Strike of Righteous Vitality to hit someone and Heal all your Constitution damage.

-White Raven Tactics is a particularily noteworthy maneuver. You may use it on yourself, but perhaps a better use would be granting one of the spellcasters another round. This reminds me: Warblade 20/Cleric 1/Crusader 1/Ruby Knight Vindicator 7 is yet another option. Ruby Knight Vindicator has some terrifically potent special abilities.
-Another potent maneuver is Iron Heart Surge. As written, it can end essentially any condition or effect with a duration, so long as you are able to act and are affected. It can destroy epic spells, it can tear Antimagic Fields apart, and so on. Take advantage of this.

-A mainstay of combat: attacks of opportunity. Attacks of opportunity are the currency of high-level melee combat, and a long reach combined with Combat Reflexes and the Crusader's Thicket of Blades stance, as well as Robilar's Gambit, allow you to make many of them. If you exchange the Swordsage level above for a Monk level early in your career, you can receive Improved Unarmed Strike and Deflect Arrows for free, as well as choose the "Overwhelming Attack" variant in the PHB II--making an unarmed attack as a full-round action will cause all of your Attacks of Opportunity to do double damage. Thicket of Blades will ensure that even tumbling and five-foot steps provoke attacks of opprtunity.

-For your epic level feats, select Exceptional Deflection and Infinite Deflection. This will protect you from spells that deliver ranged touch attacks (quite a lot of very powerful ones). For the third feat, ask if you may take an alternate version of the outdated Multispell feat which will grant you an additional swift action in a round (with which you may use Boosts and Counters, for example).

I will have more advice later, on money expenditure and item selection. For now, I am off to actually play D&D rather than merely discussing it on the internet. o-)

Edited to add: I forgot that Warblades also receive a Bonus Feat at level seveteen. Theirs is a poor list (with the useful ones already chosen), so I suggest either Improved Initiative or Blade Meditation.

Talya
2007-05-21, 09:23 PM
This warblade/dervish build is quite good, although I'd do more with it:
http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10273728&postcount=487

Dancing Blade Form is the main thing its missing. And of course with 20 levels of warblade you could do much more with it. It's not as feat restricted, either.

Lolth
2007-05-21, 09:59 PM
I really, really don't want to seem aggressive here, or thread hijack, so I'm just going to ask this:

Why is it when people come out and say "I've got build X, and I'd like some help with it" that people seem to feel an uncontrollable urge to tell them not to play it? "Play a Wizard," or "those suck..."

I mean, I can understand if people come in and say "What do you think of this class?" then saying "I don't like it, I prefer this" but that's not the case most of the time.

Again, really not trying to start trouble, I really want to know.

Talya
2007-05-21, 10:01 PM
I really, really don't want to seem aggressive here, or thread hijack, so I'm just going to ask this:

Why is it when people come out and say "I've got build X, and I'd like some help with it" that people seem to feel an uncontrollable urge to tell them not to play it? "Play a Wizard," or "those suck..."

I mean, I can understand if people come in and say "What do you think of this class?" then saying "I don't like it, I prefer this" but that's not the case most of the time.

Again, really not trying to start trouble, I really want to know.

I agree. I was actually having a fun time figuring out what to build with a 20 fighter, 9 warblade...it's not as bad as it would sound.

Emperor Tippy
2007-05-21, 10:11 PM
....

Your taking 20 levels of fighter. I can think of only about 3 worse builds you can do.

20 levels of Samurai
20 Levels of Ninja
20 Levels of Monk


Hell, even 20 levels of Warlock is more useful.

Lolth
2007-05-21, 10:14 PM
....

Your taking 20 levels of fighter. I can think of only about 3 worse builds you can do.

20 levels of Samurai
20 Levels of Ninja
20 Levels of Monk


Hell, even 20 levels of Warlock is more useful.

Sort of like that. The OP didn't ask for anyone's opinion as to whether their class(es) are meeting with poster approval. They're asking for advice as to Feat selection.

In that vein, sadly, I can't help, since I've never even read the Epic rules.

Sorry!

Talya
2007-05-21, 10:30 PM
....

Your taking 20 levels of fighter. I can think of only about 3 worse builds you can do.

20 levels of Samurai
20 Levels of Ninja
20 Levels of Monk


Hell, even 20 levels of Warlock is more useful.


Don't forget, though, that 20 levels of ANYTHING = +10 levels of warblade, for determining what maneuvers/stances you qualify for. There are ways you could have some fun with that.

The_Snark
2007-05-21, 10:33 PM
....

Your taking 20 levels of fighter. I can think of only about 3 worse builds you can do.

20 levels of Samurai
20 Levels of Ninja
20 Levels of Monk


Hell, even 20 levels of Warlock is more useful.

Oh? It all depends, of course, but you could make, say, a pretty good archer out of a level 20 fighter. I prefer scouts as archers, myself, but fighters come pretty close too.

Admittedly you'll end up with a lot of feats, but with all books allowed you could make a very solid melee combatant. Especially with the warblade levels thrown in. Stormguard Warrior, Elusive Target chain, Shock Trooper chain, Snap Kick, Karmic Strike, Robilar's Gambit... plenty of good feats, and you can take a lot of them.

Naturally, some of the other players may be more powerful, but this is still a solid build. It's a team game; you'll never have to duel your wizard. Instead, he'll be casting Fly and Freedom of Movement on you to help out, assuming you don't have items that do that for you already. The build I outlined could give any dragon foolish enough to close with it a very solid beating and (with the warblade levels) have high enough saves to be very resistant to spellcasters and special abilities.

Epic spells are broken, yeah, but no DM I have ever encountered will let you summon unlimited armies of solars to help you with your epic rituals. Those permanent spells are theoretical only. Without custom item or ritual cheese, getting your Spellcraft check high enough to seriously abuse Epic Spellcasting is tough. Saying that everyone playing epic should have Epic Spellcasting is like saying that everyone above level 5 should be a kobold Master of Many Forms.

Anyway, since your DM is amenable to Warblade 20 I'd stick with that. For the last nine levels, you could go with Fighter 6/Swashbuckler 3, for more feats and Int synergy, or go with Bloodstorm Blade 9, just because it's a cool prestige class that lets you do pretty much everything you do in melee at range. A Bloodstorm Blade with Distant Shot would be pretty terrifying. And the class gives you bonus feats, too.

As for feats, the above chains that I reccomended (Stormguard Warrior, Elusive Target, Shock Trooper, Karmic Strike and Robilar's Gambit, Snap Kick) are all good feats and work well with one another. They total 12 feats with their prerequisites, 2 of which are on the warblade bonus feat list and pretty much all of which are fighter bonus feats. With flaws and levels of fighter/bloodstorm blade, you can manage that.

Reinboom
2007-05-21, 10:48 PM
What about races? All ECL 0 my guess?
Also, what is the stats?

Some feat combinations:
Toughness (Improved Toughness if your DM is reasonable) and a lot of Roll With It.

If you have decent stats, I rather like the devil-touched feats provided alongside a hellbred. That's 3 decent free feats for a race.

Also, do you know your GMs play style? Hordes? Single big bad guy?

The best feat combinations are normally in chains or synergies as well. Try to concentrate on doing 1 thing well. If you have feats left over from that, then fill in.
An important thing to note: Don't skim over tactical feats, many of them are quite excellent (such as shock trooper).

lillitheris
2007-05-21, 11:52 PM
Actually, he wanted us to all have really... interesting races. There's a Solar in the party as well as a Rakasha, half-golem, and a silver dragon. Initially he was pushing me to take a dragon but the level adjustment was prohibitive to me. So, instead, I went with a few templates.

The race is special: Sainted Half-Dragon Werebear

Stat Adjusts:
STR +28 (Includes +4 from Warshaper)
DEX +4
CON +16 (Includes +4 from Warshaper)
WIS +4
INT +2
CHA +6

I ended up with final stats of:

STR 46
DEX 20
CON 32
WIS 20
INT 18
CHA 18


Stormguard Warrior, Elusive Target chain, Shock Trooper chain.

I'll have to check that out, I'm currently reading the Stormguard Warrior chain.

You can tell by my vague horror at the combination that I'm not used to playing a game of this power scale.

Sir Giacomo
2007-05-22, 06:11 AM
Oh? It all depends, of course, but you could make, say, a pretty good archer out of a level 20 fighter. I prefer scouts as archers, myself, but fighters come pretty close too.


Incidently, I started a thread on this a while ago, where a core (archer) fighter level 20 build was able to kill a balor at 300 ft range in 1.5 rounds; and was able to stand up (for a while :smallbiggrin: ) to even the might of a great greenknight Clericzilla build. Maybe it will provide inspiration for feats; but PHB II, Complete Warrior and Tome of Battle all are full of even better feats.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2350242&postcount=457
I'm constanlty working on improving that one and may start a new thread soon.

If you go epic, the only thing I know is that epic feats are extremely powerful (getting more and more on par with 9th level spells), and fighters get the most of all classes. Of the 20 fighter levels and 9 warblade levels, save up some fighter levels for the epic area 21-29 to get most oomph for combat awesomeness.

- Giacomo

Shinkoro
2007-05-22, 07:37 AM
Close Quarter Fighting - Good vs. foes with improved grappling/ natural grappling ability. I find it useful for fighters who wear heavy armor who are pretty soft vs. grappling. Lets you get a AoO vs even foes with Improved grappling/ natural grappling ability and get that damage if you hit to the grapple opposed roll. Nice for avoiding those nasty giant grapplers.

Power Attack - Always good.

Combat Expertise - I almost always take this for melee characters, a extra 5 AC can often make a difference.

Leadership - Folks who take your orders rock. Great for watching your home/ base and I like to get a wizard cohort, he can make you stuff !!

Armor Specialization - I like to take this and wear adamantite armor and get 5/- damage reduction. Combined with Dwarven Defender can be 11/-. Add epic damage reduction for more goodness. At level 29 this could be 20/- if your a Dwarven Defender. Even without DD can be 14/- at level 29

Combat Acrobat - Good if you put points into balance. DC check 20 to not be knocked down. Also lets you ignore 4 squares of difficult terrain with a DC 15 check, alot handier then you might think. Even with armor penalties its not hard to make DC 20 with points in balance at mid level.


Just my toughts on some feats

Indon
2007-05-22, 08:25 AM
Hmm. Feats...

Well, non-epic:
Power Attack
Cleave
Great Cleave
Improved Critical (Pick a weapon with 18-20 crit range)
Overwhelming Critical (Same weapon)
Weapon Focus (Same weapon)

For your first Epic feat take Devastating Critical (Epic level handbook, I do believe) in your chosen weapon. Every time you crit, you force a Fortitude save-or-die, DC (10 + Your Class levels + your Str Mod), or something like that, for about what, DC 55? Only works on things vulnerable to criticals, so grab some anti-undead/construct/plant/ooze measures in your gear (mace of disruption's always good) as well.

Also, either grab some kind of Pounce feat, or take the epic feat Dire Charge (also epic level handbook, might be a waste of an epic feat).

Also, if you grab one more point of dex, you can take the epic version of Combat Reflexes (also epic level handbook), which removes the limit to AOO's in any given turn completely; it'd go well with Robilar's Gambit.

Basically, what I'm saying is, choose your epic feats first, then pick the prereqs for them.

Edit: Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure I'm looking at the 3.0 source here. Someone check if these have been changed/removed or not?

Talya
2007-05-22, 08:44 AM
Hmm. Feats...

Well, non-epic:
Power Attack
Cleave
Great Cleave
Improved Critical (Pick a weapon with 18-20 crit range)
Overwhelming Critical (Same weapon)
Weapon Focus (Same weapon)

For your first Epic feat take Devastating Critical (Epic level handbook, I do believe) in your chosen weapon. Every time you crit, you force a Fortitude save-or-die, DC (10 + Your Class levels + your Str Mod), or something like that, for about what, DC 55? Only works on things vulnerable to criticals, so grab some anti-undead/construct/plant/ooze measures in your gear (mace of disruption's always good) as well.

Also, either grab some kind of Pounce feat, or take the epic feat Dire Charge (also epic level handbook, might be a waste of an epic feat).

Also, if you grab one more point of dex, you can take the epic version of Combat Reflexes (also epic level handbook), which removes the limit to AOO's in any given turn completely; it'd go well with Robilar's Gambit.

Basically, what I'm saying is, choose your epic feats first, then pick the prereqs for them.

Edit: Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure I'm looking at the 3.0 source here. Someone check if these have been changed/removed or not?

Nice thing about those weapon specific feats and warblade is they can switch the weapon they apply to when necessary.

There is no 3.5 epic sourcebook, btw, so 3.0 is all you've got.

Lolth
2007-05-22, 10:31 AM
Overwhelming Critical?

Tell me more... :) What book?

lillitheris
2007-05-22, 11:24 AM
It's in the DMG, Epic Level Handbook, and the Draconomicon.

KoDT69
2007-05-22, 11:34 AM
http://www.d20srd.org
That includes the epic feats and stuff. Overwhelming and Devastating Critical are there too! Such an awesome site, and it's free to use. Only certain sourcebooks are included AFAIK include the PHB, DMG, MM1, Deities & Demigods, and Epic Level Handbook (or at least great portions of them anyway). :smallbiggrin:
As far as a fighter being useless at epic levels, that's up to the DM and the group of players preferences. If every PC is only out for #1, your fighter will suck big time! If you have a cohesive and smooth running party the others will supplement your abilities and make you a scary force on the battlefield. The Warblade levels will seriously help a lot too. I'm intrigued by the Iron Heart Surge line, so check that one out. Anything that is mobile or anti-magic is your friend. Like I said though, if your group works well together then go for the massive damage build and have fun!
The charging feats are great, but are pure awesomeness when the arcane caster drops an Overland Flight on you, making great use of the feat that lets you do triple on a charge if you pin the opponent to a solid surface (Complete Adventurer? Dungeon something-or-other guide? don't remember?) so fly upward and smash them into the ground! Question though, could you technically charge, leap into the air (Leap Attack feat) then use the Overland Flight to fly like 500ft before striking and still get the bonus damage? I houseruled that it works in my games, not that it comes up like ever, but what do you all think?

Kelyss
2007-05-22, 11:39 AM
a good combination of fighter feats is power attack, cleave and great cleave. esspecially if you are a high level going up against low levels. once you kill one you can cleave through them into a person ajasent to them. and if their is like an army then you can just go through them all. but only if you have great cleave.

KoDT69
2007-05-22, 11:44 AM
I believe you are looking for Supreme Cleave? It's the one that allows an additional 5ft step after each cleave. That would be the best way to chop down the ranks of a low-level army unit! :smallwink:

Fourth Tempter
2007-05-22, 05:01 PM
There was some fairly poor advice given in the past several posts--forget about Improved and Overwhelming Critical, they are weak feats unless you are using them to gain access to Devastating Critical (which is, overall, not likely to be worth it).
Damage reduction, at this level, is essentially irrelevant.
Great Cleave is a very poor feat; even Cleave, at this level, is very unlikely to be useful.

When you say the character is now a Sainted Half-Dragon Werebear, does this cut into your class levels? All of those things add up to a very high Level Adjustment. How many actual class levels do you have to work with?

lillitheris
2007-05-22, 05:10 PM
It's gestalt level 20 so, 40 levels.

My templates take up 6 levels the warshaper takes up another 5 so that leaves 9 to play with.

Indon
2007-05-22, 07:05 PM
There was some fairly poor advice given in the past several posts--forget about Improved and Overwhelming Critical, they are weak feats unless you are using them to gain access to Devastating Critical (which is, overall, not likely to be worth it).

If you're using Robilar's Gambit and Improved Combat Reflexes, with Devastating Critical you'll be making plenty of attacks at full attack bonus for easy crits leading to dead targets; I fail to see how making melee attacks upon you outright suicidal in nature (as opposed to very annoying) to be not worth it.

Other good epic feats you might want to grab include Fast Healing (mostly so that you need no healing after fights, you won't gain much health during combat), and Resist Death (increases your massive damage threshold, if your DM actually uses it in an epic game).

Other than that, I already noted Pounce, you might want a power attack multiplier booster, and... actually, how much do you intend on focusing on ranged weapons? There are some good feats for that, too.

kemmotar
2007-05-23, 08:46 AM
one extra thought though its not about feats is silence and since you're lvl 40 (essentially) you can just add infinite uses of silence or something else thus effectively forcing the wizard to either move out of the silenced area...
this would probably incapacitate wizards who need to prepare spells with metamagic feats and most likely impede other spellcasters (if they have the silent spell)...
i'm not entirely sure how well that would work in an epic campaign but theoretically it should be a good addition to make sure you survive an extra round or 2?

Quietus
2007-05-23, 10:47 AM
It's gestalt level 20 so, 40 levels.

My templates take up 6 levels the warshaper takes up another 5 so that leaves 9 to play with.

Gestalt eh?

And people say that warshaper doesn't give much in the way of epic progression?

Let's see here...


20 warblade on one side
6 templates/4 warshaper/10 Dervish on the other.

This'll give you a BAB high enough for four attacks, with full warblade everything and all the benefits of being a Dervish. The flashmorph ability from Warshaper 5 just isn't that helpful if you're going to be in hybrid form most of the time.

This gives you the full 40 levels, and as you enter epic, continue Fighter on one side, with Dervish on the other, for massive feat options and continually increasing Dervish Dance bonuses. Carry a falchion and a glaive, for your close combat and reach options, with slashing damage, and take feats to improve your abilities with those, including Improved Trip as necessary. See if you can't pick up an adamantine one and get Improved Sunder as well - though that can be an expensive proposition in Epic, if you're destroying high-worth loots.

lillitheris
2007-05-23, 10:52 AM
Does anyone have any ideas for equipment and magic items? I think I've gotten some good suggestions on feats and such.

Magic items specifically.

I've never had 720k to start out with before.

Emperor Tippy
2007-05-23, 10:57 AM
Hmm.

A Belt of Battle or 12.

Animated Tower Shield
Buckler of Soulfire
Armor of heavy Fortification


Look for items that give immunities to stuff.

Shinkoro
2007-05-23, 01:18 PM
+5 Heavy Armor of Heavy Fortification

Emperor Tippy
2007-05-23, 01:30 PM
Its a waste shink. Save your money and just get +1 armor of heavy fortification. And the buckler of soulfire.

kemmotar
2007-05-23, 01:33 PM
If your DM likes to throw armored tanks at you (ie palas/clerics/fighters with full plates or armoured monsters) get brilliant energy on your weapon and bypass the +5 full plate +13 to AC...I think brilliant energy also ignores shield AC too but not sure...
maybe mordekainen's disjunction or a ring or something?
resistance or immunity to elements, +12 or all the stats you wanna raise...
blindfold of true darkness(maybe) for blindsight out to 30ft, ignore all those annoying illusions and miss chances...(good thing is it takes up a goggles slot so you don't use up your other item slots)
you can also make magic items with constant effects, for example glasses constant true seeing, ring with constant true strike...+20 on each attack roll aint that bad...take monkey grip and two handed feats and wield greatswords or greataxes for more effect you big bad werebear:smalltongue:

Also if you're going for two handed don't forget the epic two weapon fighting feats!!
Big bad poisons for maximum effect...especially potent ones cost a bunch but quite worth it...
If you can find any ability that paralyzes the other. Also you can look at luck items from Complete scoundrel if you're prone to bad dice...
maybe take a level in monk and bump up your wisdom + bracers of armor +12.
Chronocharm of the horizon walker, avoid those nasty charging monsters...

dyslexicfaser
2007-05-23, 01:42 PM
Just out of curiosity, is there somewhere on the web that lists the feats that aren't in the core books? d20SRD only lists those.

shadowmage
2007-05-23, 01:45 PM
Crystalkeep.com has a lot but has not been updated in a while so the newest ones will not be there.

LotharBot
2007-05-23, 01:52 PM
You can find a lot of feats at the following sites:
http://datadeco.com/nbofeats/nbofeats012.html - the Netbook of feats, mostly unofficial
http://realmshelps.dandello.net/datafind/feats.shtml - Forgotten Realms helps, lists feats from most books published before April of 07.

lillitheris
2007-05-23, 10:43 PM
Crystalkeep is pretty good.