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View Full Version : d1=Möbius strip or Klein bottle?



Maulrus
2007-05-21, 08:08 PM
It seems to me that, for all intents and purposes, a paper Möbius strip could be an effective d1.

Just throwing that out there.

Solo
2007-05-21, 08:09 PM
I personally use a one sided coin, made out of magnetic monopoles.

ocato
2007-05-21, 08:10 PM
I already invented a d1. I shake my fist, then I mime a dice roll. Then I punch you in the head. While you are surprised, I shout out 'I got a 1!' So far, so good.

Fax Celestis
2007-05-21, 08:10 PM
Yes, but why would you roll it when you already know what the outcome will be...?

F.L.
2007-05-21, 08:14 PM
Don't get me started on the d4 I had that was a quantum superposition of 2 d4's. You'd roll it, and the number you'd get would change if you looked at it. Also dealing out 1+3root2 damage was always a headache.

Or you could get a d0, and roll d0+1.

Maulrus
2007-05-21, 08:14 PM
Yes, but why would you roll it when you already know what the outcome will be...?

Because they don't know it.

Oh, and the d0+1 idea is an interesting prospect I had not considered.

my_evil_twin
2007-05-21, 08:18 PM
I just roll a d4 and reroll if the result is greater than 1 :tongue:

Parasocrates
2007-05-21, 08:23 PM
Roll a ping-pong ball with a "1" painted on it.

F.L.
2007-05-21, 08:24 PM
Though now I'm curious what the set of d-n dice are. E.g. the d-4. Or, even better, irrational dice, like the d i*pi.

ocato
2007-05-21, 08:25 PM
The d4 looks like a pyramid. The numbers are painted on each corner, the corner pointing up is the number.

F.L.
2007-05-21, 08:31 PM
I meant a d minus 4.

vvvvvv
Solves that simple problem, but still doesn't answer what a d(euler's number) does. Or, more horribly, a d(Graham's number).

ocato
2007-05-21, 08:32 PM
My apologies.

Take what I said, and etch a negative symbol next to all of the numbers. Problem solved.

NEO|Phyte
2007-05-21, 08:35 PM
Yes, but why would you roll it when you already know what the outcome will be...?
Simple.

There is a stance that lets you reroll and add to your damage dealt when you roll max damage. If its actually 1d1 instead of just 1 damage on small weapons, you've got an infinite loop.

Nahal
2007-05-21, 08:41 PM
A d(-4) would likely require at least 4 spatial dimensions, the plausibility of which depends largely on which school of theoretical physics you think is the least loony.

A d1 would just be a sphere IMHO since
a) We take the result of a die roll to be determined by which face upon which said die comes to rest.
b) For a d1 to exist, it would have to only have 1 face upon which to rest
c) A sphere is the only object with a single face I can think of whose existence will not cause you to start gibbering incoherently about Blind Azatoth or begging Yog Sothoth to save you.
So you roll the sphere, it comes to rest, and voila! Your only possible result is result 1. Thus, a D1. Now I have to go attend a catgirl funeral.

Also, will someone please explain a Klein bottle to me? I've heard of it but sadly I failed my Knowledge(bizarre, obscure and possibly migraine-inducing trivia) check to recall specifics.

Maulrus
2007-05-21, 08:45 PM
Also, will someone please explain a Klein bottle to me? I've heard of it but sadly I failed my Knowledge(bizarre, obscure and possibly migraine-inducing trivia) check to recall specifics.

From what I gleaned from Wikipedia, it's like two Möbius strips put together.

Go here: www.kleinbottle.com/whats_a_klein_bottle.htm

F.L.
2007-05-21, 08:45 PM
Klein Bottle = 1 sided bottle. The Bottle nozzle loops back through the bottle and comes out on the bottom. They can actually be made.

Yarr, ninja's got me.

Lemur
2007-05-21, 08:59 PM
Halfling monks shall rejoice, for their time has come!

Whitespace: It's never time for halfling monks *smacks Lemur with the probability of a one-sided die*

Mad Wizard
2007-05-21, 09:07 PM
While we're at it, let's do imaginary dice. What's a dί look like?

TheOOB
2007-05-21, 09:09 PM
Klein Bottle = 1 sided bottle. The Bottle nozzle loops back through the bottle and comes out on the bottom. They can actually be made.

Yarr, ninja's got me.

Acually, True Klein bottles are 4 dimensional objects and cannot exist in our 3 dimensional universe, all we can make is something the is a reasonable approximation.

It's kinda like how you can draw a picture of a cube on a piece of paper. You can't acually draw a 3D object on a plane, but you can make something that looks 3D.

AtomicKitKat
2007-05-21, 09:28 PM
{Leeloo}Dot.{/Leeloo}

Sergeantbrother
2007-05-21, 09:36 PM
Roll a ping-pong ball with a "1" painted on it.

What if you had a weight inside of the ping-pong opposite the "1" so that when ever you rolled it the "1" was facing up? :smallsmile:

Leon
2007-05-21, 10:07 PM
The d4 looks like a pyramid. The numbers are painted on each corner, the corner pointing up is the number.

Not always, mine have the number in the center of the flat

SpiderBrigade
2007-05-21, 10:11 PM
Not always, mine have the number in the center of the flatI've seen those too. Terrible! You have to either flip the thing over to read it, or be really quick at process-of-elimination.

BCOVertigo
2007-05-21, 10:14 PM
What if you had a weight inside of the ping-pong opposite the "1" so that when ever you rolled it the "1" was facing up? :smallsmile:

Then you get kicked out of the group for using weighted dice.

TheOOB
2007-05-21, 10:15 PM
Some also have them on the bottom instead of the top

LotharBot
2007-05-22, 12:32 AM
While we're at it, let's do imaginary dice. What's a dί look like?

Ping-pong ball again. INstead of painting a 1, paint an i. Done.

And you can weight dice as appropriate to select from non-uniform distributions.

Pronounceable
2007-05-22, 05:34 AM
A din is simply a dn with ghost touch enchantment.
(an imaginary cookie for anyone who can get the entirety of the joke)

A drational isn't that hard: an ordinary dn as the nominator, and a din as the denominator.

It's the dirrational that gives me trouble...

belboz
2007-05-23, 11:56 PM
Klein Bottle = 1 sided bottle. The Bottle nozzle loops back through the bottle and comes out on the bottom. They can actually be made.

Kinda. A real Klein bottle doesn't intersect itself. But you need an extra dimension to do that.

AngelSword
2007-05-24, 02:44 AM
While we're at it, let's do imaginary dice. What's a dί look like?
I was going to go for a joke, but I decided against it. It seemed in bad taste.

Bender
2007-05-24, 03:36 AM
A din is simply a dn with ghost touch enchantment.
(an imaginary cookie for anyone who can get the entirety of the joke)

yay, those are my favourite

about the de: just throw a d2, followed by a d7/10, proceed with a d1/100, and go on with a d8, d2, d8, d1, d8, d9, d0, d4... (yes, I put too many ranks in knowledge(irrational numbers), don't get me going on pi) divided by the appropriate power of 10 until you decide your accuracy is sufficient and you can neglect the difference. If you put it in binary, you only need to flip a coin...

I have a d1, but I never throw it, I predict the result telepatically

for a d2, my favourite is Schrödinger's cat.

Bender
2007-05-24, 03:44 AM
sorry for the double post, but I just had to try the forum roller:

1d2
1d1
1d0
1de
1d3.14
1d2,71
1d(1+i)

Rasilak
2007-05-24, 04:14 AM
for a d2, my favourite is Schrödinger's cat.I'd still recommend Schrödinger's catgirl (one more or less doesn't really matter anymore...)

JellyPooga
2007-05-24, 04:17 AM
On a related but off topic note;

Have you ever cut a Mobius Strip in half? (along the "one side" that is. Not just cutting the loop so you have a length of paper)

Twice?

The first time, you get a single, twisted, loop of paper. The second you get two loops of paper that intersect. Weird. If you keep splitting the loops you end up with a big mess of intertwining loops and it becomes really hard to distinguish them from one another. Try it, it's fun...well, I found it fun...I'm a bit "special" in some respects...:smalltongue:

It's probably perfectly explicable, but I've always thought that doing that would take all the mystery out of life...

AtomicKitKat
2007-05-24, 09:56 AM
On a related but off topic note;

Have you ever cut a Mobius Strip in half? (along the "one side" that is. Not just cutting the loop so you have a length of paper)

Twice?

The first time, you get a single, twisted, loop of paper. The second you get two loops of paper that intersect. Weird. If you keep splitting the loops you end up with a big mess of intertwining loops and it becomes really hard to distinguish them from one another. Try it, it's fun...well, I found it fun...I'm a bit "special" in some respects...:smalltongue:

It's probably perfectly explicable, but I've always thought that doing that would take all the mystery out of life...

I did that a lot in school.

If memory serves, splitting the strip produces a super double-twisted(well, full twist, as opposed to the half from Mobius) loop that is longer, which when split, produces 2 intertwined Mobius loops. I remember trying with half twist, full twist, 1.5 twist, and double twist. Lots of varied results.

Bender
2007-05-24, 11:24 AM
Have you ever cut a Mobius Strip in half? (along the "one side" that is. Not just cutting the loop so you have a length of paper)

of course!


Twice?

well, if you're doing it once...


The first time, you get a single, twisted, loop of paper. The second you get two loops of paper that intersect. Weird. If you keep splitting the loops you end up with a big mess of intertwining loops and it becomes really hard to distinguish them from one another. Try it, it's fun...well, I found it fun...I'm a bit "special" in some respects...:smalltongue:

I thought it was fun as well, but I also think it's fun to design fractals or think of every possible regular multiplane (or how do you call that in English, d4, d6, d8, d12 and d20 or the most 'normal' examples) The nicest one has 62 planes (12 decagons, 30 squares and 20 hexagons)

SpiderBrigade
2007-05-24, 11:39 AM
"polyhedron" is the word you want, I'm pretty sure. Of course my question is, can a figure with some sides that are decagons, some that are squares, and some that are hexagons be considerd "regular?"

SerroMaroo
2007-05-24, 12:11 PM
Are there any standard D&D weapons that do d1 damage? perhaps tiny dagger or somesuch?

If so I may have an idea for a very interesting CG Pixie Crusader.

SpiderBrigade
2007-05-24, 12:33 PM
Not as written. There are a few weapons that do 1 damage, but that's not the same thing unfortunately. They tend to be darts or similar stealth-type weapons that are meant to be used with Sneak Attack or poison.

Bender
2007-05-25, 04:48 AM
"polyhedron" is the word you want, I'm pretty sure. Of course my question is, can a figure with some sides that are decagons, some that are squares, and some that are hexagons be considerd "regular?"

thanks!
I defined regular as each corner being the same and each face being a polygon. There are different definitions for it, but they result in strange, unmakable shapes...

SpiderBrigade
2007-05-25, 07:56 AM
I did a little further research and it looks like the shapes you're talking about would be "pseudo-regular," in other words they have faces that are all regular polygons, but are of several different shapes. The "true" regular polyhedra are the so-called platonic solids, where every face is really the exact same, regular polygon. For instance most D&D dice except the d10.