PDA

View Full Version : Backstabbing Compatriots



SilverClawShift
2007-05-21, 08:39 PM
How many people have co-players who would double cross them at a moments notice? Is it a personality trait of theirs, or just good roleplaying? Thankfully, in my case, it's the latter.

My friends can't get together for gaming anytime over the next few days, so we grouped up this afternoon for a pretty long session of getting excited over what we roll on shiny dice, like all good and right people should.
We decided to play some eberron material randomly (a word about my group, we have very short attention spans, and other gamers have described our playstyle as "like shadowrun" even if we're playing D&D). Our DM is fantastic at coming up with things on the fly, and his notes are usually just ideas scribbled with enough space to try to link them together as a coherant story. This works surprisingly well if you have a quick thinker with a knack for theatrics/cinematic style/dramatic storytelling. It helps that our group tends to cooperate and act as a unit in real life, even when our characters are killing each other. We would rather have an interesting story than claim success in our own minds.

Which brings me to the title of the thread. Those backstabbing jerks.

Another trait of our DM is that he lets us get away with absolute murder when it comes to our insane ideas about character builds. None of us are really powergamers, so he tends to give us a blank check when we're picking our race, class, backstory, ect.
So it wasn't a big deal for me to be a Shifter, with Binder selected as a base class. (an aside that I hope doesn't violate any licenses. Anyone who doesn't know the Binder base class should at least be aware that the fact that you are likely to be persecuted is a huge part of the classes flavor. Binders are considered heretics at BEST by most churches). Binder is also a CHA heavy class, so I become the spokesperson/smoothtalker by default.

To keep this from turning into a novel, I'll skim over the backstory about this situation the best I can.
- Around first level, early on in the game, my group (generally chaotic, and good, in various quantities) had to take a low level cleric of the Silver Flame hostage for various reasons I won't get into detail about here.
- We didn't mean this cleric any harm, and weren't planning on hurting him. We just needed a hostage that the authorities would be worried about being responsible for killing to cover our bases.
- The party went out for some business while I kept watch over the cleric. I was our Plan B, as the rest of the party could warn that their failing to return to our hideout, alone, would mean me slitting his throat. A bluff, but that was the plan.
- I'm alone with this sniveling tied up cleric for a good two days. During that time, I kept binding a vestige to keep my power level up and ready in case I found myself in an emergency.
So on three seperate occasions, this cleric of the silver flame sees me drawing an enigmatic seal, and verbally making a pact with a terrifying monstrosity from outside of reality to share my soul with it for 24 hours. He knows my name.

*******

Cut to 3 levels, and a number of months of adventuring later. We're all level 4, and becoming rather notorious. Our group goes by the general style that level 1 is an average person, level 2-3 is exceptionally skilled and noteworthy people, that level 4 is fantastically capable, and that level 5 is the equivalent of an olympic athlete or a noble prize winning scientist or some such. Above level 5 is superheroic to varying degrees.
So we're a bit infamous in some circles. We're not bad guys, but we're certainly not doing things by the book, off the beaten path, marching to the beat of our own drum-... you get it.
My group is trying to pass through a mid sized town without much fuss, maybe pick up some gear and refresh our supplies, and head out to our next destination under the radar.

Because it's relevant to the story at hand, I'll list some facts about me at this point.
- I have a vestige bound that grants 10 fire resistance
- I have a class feature that grants 5 fire resistance
- I have a cute little ring that gives me 10 fire resistance and my DM agrees that they all stack cause he's cool with stuff like that.
- The vestige I have bound brands a symbol into my palm as a sign of our pact (a temporary brand, but still).
- The vestige I have bound also gives me the ability to wreath myself in flames. The flames wouldn't hurt me, so the fire resistance doesn't matter, but it's still relevant info.
- I'm wearing a sort of low-key-but-still-elegant noble outfit, as the partys spokesperson I like to look presentable. My scruffy, scarred up, slightly pungent 'allies' probably look like mercernary bodyguards or something.

On to the story. Our party decides we could use some healing gear, and the logical place to hit up for something like that is the local temple. Which just happens to be dedicated to the Silver Flame. I'm fairly confident that my charisma will get me through this without hassle, and probably at a discount, despite being a shifter (and therefor a second class citizen in most places, especially to the silver flame).
I meet the guard in front of the temple and start smooth talking. I introduce us as a party of adventurers, and ask if we might purchase some healing potions to keep us in one peice if we encounter any trouble. The guard says he thinks he's hear of us.
I put on the charmed/elated act, thinking maybe he'll suck up to the bigshots. I introduce myself as >my name< (DANGER WILL ROBINSON) and reach out to shake his hand.
He asks, "THE >my name<???"
"No one but! :)"
He reaches out to shake my hand. Grabs my wrist. Looks at my palm. Accuses me of being a heretic heathen, declares me guilty on the spot, and tries to abduct me for a swift execution.

Oh boy.

The ensuing chaos was remarkable. This bumpkin town is immediately whipped into a frenzy, with people shrieking "Witch!", "Heretic!" ect. so a full on city street full of 1st level commoners, a handful of silver flame guards of undetermined class or level, and a few more higher level tempalrs coming out of the temple. All trying to abduct me.
In the frenzy, my group has managed to keep a low profile, and comes up with a fantastic idea. As I'm attempting an acrobatic escape/dodge/jackie chan style climbing running and sliding scene, the party rogue comes up, sneak attacks me with a blackjack to the back of the head, and knocks me out cold.
And they PRESENT ME TO THE GUARDS SAYING THEY CAPTURED ME.

THOSE RAT BASTARDS.

They get REWARDED for being the ones to bring me down, and I'm immediately tied to a post and a pyre is built. I wake up as they give a small speech about impurities in the world being cleansed with holy fire, and they light the bonfire. It flares up, and I am officially being burned at the stake for being a heathen.
While my party looks on with a sick shrug.

But wait. My story gets better.
The DM declares that the open flame, combined with my 25 fire resistance, isn't enough to actually do me any damage. The fires flare up, and my poofy noble clothes are now aflame.
The fire burns through the rope (met with open mouthed staring) before it actually hurts me, thanks to the fire resistance. I crawl down OVER the bonfire, looking for all the world like some japanese horror vision, while literally engulfed in natural flame. I activate my vestiges halo wreath of fire, doubling the intensity of the flame visually, and give my best feral roar while shifting (+2 strength yay) and strike out at the nearest person, a random guy standing in the street in terror. The Dm decides that no real dice roll is needed, as he's frozen in terror, and my clawed, flaming hand rakes most of his face off and drops him. Things near me are starting to combust, and I'm leaving scorching footprints.

The crowd scrambles like a cattle stampede. All but two of the silver flame templars turn tail and run, screaming into the evening. My 'friends' immediately do a double double cross, the rogue slits ones throat and they all beat the other one to death there in the street. While I stand there. On fire. Staring angrily.

They tried to play it off that they knew I was going to get out of the situation.

"We knew you'd be fine, we remembered you had all that fire resistance"
"no you didn't. You didn't know they would use fire. They could have cut my head off."
"Oh come on, they ALWAYS burn heretics at the stake..."
"..."
"We remembered the fire resistance!"
"No you didn't"
"...hmm."
"*stares angrily*"
"You know you're still on fire."
"I am aware."

We continued adventuring together. Very Very akwardly. With a lot of staring.
My revenge has so far been subtle, but sweet. As the parties spokesperson, and the one responsible for getting us out of trouble at all costs, I've taken a lot of opportunities to make them look horrible, going so far as the explain in a hushed tone to a guard that our dwarf friend was severely retarded after a troll smacked him around for a while, and that we felt obligated to look out for him.
Subtle revenge isn't enough though. The campaign isn't over. And if, for one tiny split SECOND, it becomes easier for me to let the party die a horrible death while I walk away whistling? They will be rolling new characters.

Uh, so, yeah. Anyone else have double crossing bastards they call friends? :smalltongue:

SilverClawShift
2007-05-21, 08:43 PM
Wow. Didn't mean to turn that into a small paperback... Sorry :smalleek:

Faithdreamer
2007-05-21, 09:02 PM
:smallwink:
Sounds like you have a great group of people to play with. I liked the novel-scene value of the situation. Do you have any other stories?

Lemur
2007-05-21, 09:17 PM
You knew the risks when you chose the class, ma'am. Besides, the mistake was yours. Such is the price of failure, in America.

Anyway, as party face, be sure to take responsibility for everything your companions do, even if you weren't directly involved. Also, letting them die seems, I don't know, unsporting, shall we say? On the other hand, undermining them in little ways at opportune moments, committing minor offenses and framing a party member (the rogue in particular seems to be a loose cannon) to embarass them. Don't harass them constantly, only when it's convenient. Revenge is meant to be savored, not devoured instantly.

Personally, I would never betray my allies. Of course, I may happen to play all sides of the field, or switch teams from time to time. I can't betray my allies if they stop being my allies before I start working against them, after all. :smallwink:

Jannex
2007-05-22, 01:40 AM
Wow. Didn't mean to turn that into a small paperback... Sorry :smalleek:

No apology necessary; it was an awesome story.

If I were in your position, I wouldn't necessarily go out of my way to make trouble for them (except in small ways for my personal amusement), but I'd definitely start looking out for Number One first and foremost. :smallwink:

dyslexicfaser
2007-05-22, 02:09 AM
That story was made of win and good.

As for me... some people prefer to let their revenge simmer. I'm a fan of immediate karmic payback. Which would probably involve setting them on fire while they're asleep some point in the near future.

The_Werebear
2007-05-22, 02:38 AM
Even if it was evil and craven, that was awesome on their part. Excellent RP, so long as they were all CN - NE

ArmorArmadillo
2007-05-22, 02:42 AM
Never betray party members. N-E-V-E-R. There is never a situation in which it's a good idea (unless it's very, very clearly part of a plan)
For one to claim that he has "character reasons" for doing so is effectively saying "my character is more important than yours; you can be sacrificed to further my roleplaying experience."

Your party did a bad thing to you, but unfortunately you can't betray them back (Unless your group has some sort of preset understanding about it). Doing so would be to bring out of character problems in game. Even if they deserve it. Which they do. But you can't. Sorry.

I've fortunately never been betrayed by a party, but I can sympathize with dysfunctional dynamics.

SilverClawShift
2007-05-22, 11:03 AM
Do you have any other stories?

Lots, but most of em probably aren't worth telling. Like when we went to our DM and declared "We're all gonna be bards in the next game".
DM: "...what?"
Us: "Bards. All of us."
DM: "Are you stupid?"
Us: "Probably!"

Turned into a really great game though, and is a good example of how our DM can wing it and still make a good game. We drop it on him that we're going to be a party of 5 bards, and he immediately plunges us into a large scale version of the phantom of the opera/murder mystery thriller with all the fixins.


Personally, I would never betray my allies.

Usually, of course not. They don't usually backstab anyone unless it's in the spirit of the game and fits with the roleplaying.

That said, my character is extremly extremly bitter about the whole thing. Bitter enough to 'forget' to inform the local authorities that my compatriots are trapped in a maze like dungeon. "Wouldn't want the authorities to try to burn me at the stake again! I'd better just find a new party and head off into the sunset".


Excellent RP, so long as they were all CN - NE

Our DM tends to be a little lenient on what alignment means and how it affects you, as an individual. Specifically, being a coward doesn't make you evil, it just means you're a coward. The group wasn't being malicious, just gutless yellow bellied wusses.

Bastards.


Never betray party members. N-E-V-E-R. There is never a situation in which it's a good idea (unless it's very, very clearly part of a plan)
For one to claim that he has "character reasons" for doing so is effectively saying "my character is more important than yours; you can be sacrificed to further my roleplaying experience."

Your party did a bad thing to you, but unfortunately you can't betray them back.

Nonsense! If my friends were so uptight about what happened in our game, I'd be looking for a new group. We're keenly aware that it's just a game, and our biggest goal in the game is to create a fun and interesting story, one way or another. Wether that means traumatizing horror, random psychotic comedy, or good old fashioned heroic events.

If this storyline is going to turn into "Reservoir Dogs in Eberron", then so be it.

****

Edit. Think I figured out this multiple quotes thingy.

Person_Man
2007-05-22, 03:48 PM
Don't double cross, harm, work against, or thwart another player. Ever. There is no justifiable rationale to do so. Nothing will start arguments and ruin friendships faster.

If you find yourself thinking "I'm just doing what my character would do in this situation," then you need to change your character concept.

Playing D&D is just like any other relationship. You don't want to win arguments. Because every time you win an argument, the other person in the relationship loses an argument. So while you might have gotten what you want in the short term, your partner/friend/coworker/whatever has lost what they want, and will often feel hurt, betrayed, ineffectual, or some other negative feeling. And in the long term, it just creates dysfunction, powerlessness, and a poor relationship.

Instead, you have to approach every situation as if you are on the same team, working towards the same goals. Find solutions you can both be happy about. And when you must argue, do so in a way that is considerate about the other persons thoughts, feelings, and motivations, rather then trying to destroy/discredit them in order to prove your point.

dyslexicfaser
2007-05-22, 03:56 PM
Don't double cross, harm, work against, or thwart another player. Ever.
Don't thwart another player... like... say... coshing a teammate in the back of the head with a blackjack and handing him over to the Silver Flame to face execution?

That kind of thwarting?

Piccamo
2007-05-22, 03:59 PM
Turnabout is not fairplay. Turn the other cheek.

Jack Mann
2007-05-22, 04:08 PM
Eh, it depends a lot on your group and the expectations of play. If everyone is clear that backstabbing is allowed, and they're a fairly mature group, there should be no problem, though I wouldn't enjoy it in a long-term campaign. If you're playing an evil party, then backstabbing can be a lot of fun.

SilverClawShift
2007-05-22, 04:59 PM
Turn the other cheek.

No.

We're not 12 year olds who are going to flip over the game board and go home because someone put a hotel on boardwalk.

They will suffer :smallamused:

The_Snark
2007-05-22, 05:20 PM
Don't double cross, harm, work against, or thwart another player. Ever. There is no justifiable rationale to do so. Nothing will start arguments and ruin friendships faster.


Never betray party members. N-E-V-E-R. There is never a situation in which it's a good idea (unless it's very, very clearly part of a plan)

Unless it's fun, reasonably in-character and your group is mature enough that it won't result in actual, personal conflict. Interparty betrayals can be fun for those betrayed also; it sounds to me like Silverclaw had fun even if her character didn't.

Me, I have fond memories of playing a Lawful Good cleric of St. Cuthbert. The rest of the party was a Chaotic Good spellcaster, a Chaotic Neutral wizard and ranger, and a Chaotic Evil rogue. The spellcaster was sort of a help, but pretty random and absent-minded more often than not; the ranger was pretty neutral; and the rogue and wizard were pretty kleptomaniacal. They couldn't do anything with me right there, and might not want to, because I was the one with the healing spells, but we had some fun times with them trying to go behind my back. This wouldn't have been fun if, say, the rogue had coup de graced me in my sleep, but he intentionally refrained from doing that because it wouldn't have been any fun. As it was, several party members were beaten into unconsciousness, robbed, or arrested as a result, but it was all still pretty funny.

PaladinBoy
2007-05-22, 07:03 PM
Wow. That's hilarious. :smallbiggrin:

Personally? I think if you're going to betray someone else in the party you'd better make sure they can handle it. If they can't, don't do it. If they can, and it'll make a good story and lead to fun for everyone, then go for it.

I don't like betrayals that much anyway, though. Seems to me there's a bit of a point to being on a team. Using a betrayal of your own to show them, "hey, maybe he would support us more if we'll support him" is only fine if they'll think it's funny and take the veiled lesson in good humor. Otherwise, just lead by example.

As another note: Sometimes friendships, even those formed in the heat of battle in the darkest dungeon, only go so far. For example, my character is a noble in House Lyrandar in the Eberron setting; I think it's reasonable to assume that if another party member decides to attack/ hamper House Lyrandar, then my character will say, "Have fun in hell" and attack. This becomes a problem if both people steadfastly insist that it's proper RPing for them to fight and neither can handle losing. That might require an OOC discussion.

Counterpower
2007-05-22, 07:15 PM
:smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin:

Awesome story. Honestly? You so had that one coming. You took one of them hostage and let him see you binding? And you expected to have any welcome other than "GOT HIM!!!!" at the temple? Hah. Hope you were planning for large amounts of havoc.

ArmorArmadillo
2007-05-22, 07:27 PM
No.

We're not 12 year olds who are going to flip over the game board and go home because someone put a hotel on boardwalk.

They will suffer :smallamused:...but you are planning on starting a cycle of vengeance.

I don't know your group, I don't know what works for you.

I'm used to people putting a lot of time effort into their characters, who would probably be pretty disappointed if they died, and REALLY disappointed if another player did.

If you're group is playing a campaign where they enjoy risking killing each other for the sake of revenge, that's good. But it isn't a sign of maturity or good roleplaying that they're willing to do so.

D&D is designed to be a cooperative game, and playing it as a competitive one needs to be done only with a very specific understanding of all the players involved, and it is a different play style than the one the game was designed for.

If someone betrays his party in a standard game, without a sense of previous understanding, what he's doing is wrong. He's risking the entire party's game experience for the sake of his own personal character goal. And if hee tries to justify it by saying that it's "in character" and that the others should be "mature enough to deal with it", all that he's doing is declaring himself better than others to justify his actions.

SilverClawShift
2007-05-22, 07:59 PM
While I appreciate being told how my group plays the game wrong, and are immature for not getting offended over a game (with the token "you can do what you want" comment. Saying "no offense" before saying something offensive wouldn't make it inoffensive, and saying "You can do what you want" but following it up with "but you're playing the game wrong" seems pretty unfriendly) we're not trying to re-create the same group of people saving the world over and over again. Sometimes in a story, things go haywire, and sometimes a person (for roleplaying reasons or not) is best off walking away whistling.

I'm not starting a cycle of vengence, I'm letting a group of characters (not the people playing those characters) get their commupence for watching while a church tried to burn me alive. You don't act that self serving and then trust the person you double crossed, or you wind up on the wrong end of a bottomless pit.

None of my friends would be so childish that letting a character (justifiably!) order up a bowl of sweet frosty revenge would carry over to a new game. But that's because we act as a team OFF the game board, even on the occasions we're not acting as a team on it. We've played as two small groups competing with each other before. We played a mini campaign where there could be only one clear winner, and all of us were roleplaying an air of civility and crocodile smiles while we shook hands and plotted each others defeats.
We've also played sessions were most of the players simply weren't important to the central character (a hero of destiny type story) because we all discussed ahead of time what we were going to be playing, and agreed it sounded fun. So I'm R2D2 instead of luke skywalker for one campaign, big deal, it was fun running around as support characters in one players arc of destiny.

Oh well. We've gotten told we play the game like it was Shadowrun instead of D&D, whatever that means.

Pronounceable
2007-05-22, 07:59 PM
That is absolutely golden gameplay. I love it. Wish I had a DM like that.

One thing I did once was remotely similar (very remote actually):

Me and a friend are playing a rogue and a bard. We have been a bit naughty in the past. As we're walking on a road, some armored guys ride by us without notice. But the bard goes and hails them. They stop, look at us, then attack. I get knocked out. When I'm awake again, I sneak attack the bard and then proceed to beat him senseless while going on a tirade about the virtues of keeping a low profile. Then I tie him up and drag him unconscious through dirt and mud until we get to the next village.

So I'm sort of a tempered bastard, not exactly a doublecrossing one.

Pirate_King
2007-05-22, 08:26 PM
That is awesome.

I consistently play with one other person in most of my games, and theres always some kind of wacky chemistry, whether he's some crazy CN aligned that I have to keep straight or vise versa, or an evil dumb character that likes hitting things with his flail and the other character insisting that he's just chaotic mean or misunderstood, its always fun



If you're group is playing a campaign where they enjoy risking killing each other for the sake of revenge, that's good. But it isn't a sign of maturity or good roleplaying that they're willing to do so.

D&D is designed to be a cooperative game, and playing it as a competitive one needs to be done only with a very specific understanding of all the players involved, and it is a different play style than the one the game was designed for.


Hold the phone, designed to be a cooperative game? D&D is less a designed game and more a designed world. The GM makes the game. that's why he's called the game master. Cooperation is key for certain scenarios, combat and otherwise, but the D&D rules dictate the world itself, not how they are used in it. Revenge isn't a sign of maturity in the character that person is playing, but it has nothing to do with the maturity of the person playing him. Generally speaking, players know the alignments of their team mates, and take those risks when they put their characters in a campaign with them. Good role playing is not about acting as a team, it's about playing a role And characters that have a lot of work in them dying? It's a piece of paper. Retcon is not illegal. There is no real history anywhere preventing you from imagining certain things didn't happen. Personally, I think death adds character. A friend of mine played a bard that died twice. The second time, he came back as a ghost, and was considerably more useful to the party.

ArmorArmadillo
2007-05-22, 08:40 PM
While I appreciate being told how my group plays the game wrong, and are immature for not getting offended over a game (with the token "you can do what you want" comment. Saying "no offense" before saying something offensive wouldn't make it inoffensive, and saying "You can do what you want" but following it up with "but you're playing the game wrong" seems pretty unfriendly) we're not trying to re-create the same group of people saving the world over and over again. Sometimes in a story, things go haywire, and sometimes a person (for roleplaying reasons or not) is best off walking away whistling.I went out of my way to make this very clear: I said that betraying the party is wrong "without a sense of previous understanding."
All that I said was that playing competitive D&D is a different style of play than standard D&D, please do not take that as a personal attack.

Pirate_King
2007-05-22, 08:44 PM
"standard D&D"

pah.

by the way, I just got the megaman reference in your screen name. very nice.

Tallis
2007-05-22, 09:00 PM
Your party did a bad thing to you, but unfortunately you can't betray them back (Unless your group has some sort of preset understanding about it). Doing so would be to bring out of character problems in game. Even if they deserve it. Which they do. But you can't. Sorry.

The way I understand the story it is very much an in-character problem, not an out of character one at all. The group attacked a fellow party member. They should expect repercussions from that, and as the group is described it sounds like they would handle it in good humor. The group I usually play with is much the same way. Infighting is rare, but when it happens it stays in the game, we've never had an out of game problem with it.

To Silverclaw: I suggest poetic justice. Frame them and turn them in. Wave goodbye and smile while counting your reward as they are hauled off to jail. Have a plan for rescuing them just in case you start feeling guilty about it. Tell them you assumed they would escape on their own, you just needed the cash. After all they "knew" you were fireproof right?

ArmorArmadillo
2007-05-22, 10:24 PM
The way I understand the story it is very much an in-character problem, not an out of character one at all. The group attacked a fellow party member. They should expect repercussions from that, and as the group is described it sounds like they would handle it in good humor. The group I usually play with is much the same way. Infighting is rare, but when it happens it stays in the game, we've never had an out of game problem with it.
Is it In-Character? Separating the overall issue from this specific incident, just because a character does something does not make it an "In-Character" issue. If my character kills a friend's in what was supposed to have been a friendly game, that is a breach of trust on my, as a player's, part. If my friend feels offended at me, he should talk to me about it. Many people don't like to play in an environment where they have to worry about their teammates taking personal grudges or oppourtunistic attacks on them, and that's their right.

dyslexicfaser
2007-05-22, 10:42 PM
Well, I think the player certainly has something to do with it, but SilverClaw's character must be feeling betrayed as well. He was essentially betrayed and left for dead by his group. They didn't even try to save him: killing those two guards don't really count as a rescue.

In almost any alignment, that would promote IC ill-feelings, don't you think?

the_tick_rules
2007-05-22, 10:43 PM
i do. one of my players IS belkar and the most ironic part is he doesn't read OOTS

Ravyn
2007-05-23, 12:26 AM
The bitterness is completely in-character, though I have my own suggestion.

Living well is the best revenge.

So yeah, be willing to pull them out of a sticky situation where you have no reason to interfere--and then rub it in their faces. If you're pretty sure getting them out of the dire strait they're in looks more dangerous than it actually is (and therefore isn't going to kill you unless you're stupid or unlucky), and everyone knows perfectly well you'd find it much easier to get out on your own--help them anyway, then make sure they know how much they owe you and how much better a person you are. Pull forth the guilt in those treacherous little ingrates' hearts, and make of yourself a saintly paragon of teamwork and forgiveness--and get them to realize that because you are so much more forgiving, so much better a team player, so much more perfect, that they aren't fit to lick your boots and should by rights be worshipping the ground you walk on. Don't say so in so many words, of course--that spoils the effect, and it's so much more satisfying when they come to the conclusion on their own. However, slipping a certain amount of imagery to that effect into your descriptions of your actions can go a long way.

And you know the best part? You can keep milking it as long as you feel like. Isn't that so much better than just ditching them and never getting to see them all on their knees begging for your forgiveness (and taking the slight risk that they might get out of whatever situation you left them in and come back out for blood)?

SilverClawShift
2007-05-24, 09:12 PM
So I got my revenge tonight, and it was sweet and tasty.

One common trait of our games is that we leave a MOUNTAIN of notes after each session. We all carry a small notepad, and anything we need to discuss in private, we scribble on the notepad. Helps keeping out-of-character knowledge from becmoing an issue, because you didn't hear that information in the first place. The most common notes are between the DM and players, but if characters decide to head off to discuss something alone, we can actually plot without the DMs fore-knowledge of our plan. Makes things interesting.
And we recycle the massive amounts of paper we tear through, don't worry.
Anyway, the end result is that we don't really raise eyebrows when secret notes are being passed. It's a given, and it's not necessarily something sinister, just a roleplaying aide.

So my party (now level 5, the last level before we become engines of superheroic destruction), finds a relatively quiet out-of-the-way corner of the world to crash in for a few days and collect our bearings after some particularily BAD planning went south. We had a mini quest in the town helping out a gnome stage magician (this was NOT something I set up, the DM dropped it on us as randomly as anything else, I had no prior knowledge about it).
Then we planned on relaxing for the evening. While the party started a brawl in a bar for entertainment (really.) I headed out for a shopping excursion. Since this was all out-of-character stuff for the other players, it consisted of me and the DM passing notes about what I was hoping to accomplish, while he DMed a random bar fight.
As a side note, the vestige I had bound gave me a number of random abilities, one of which included being treated as a wizard of my level when it came to using spell trigger items like wands, so I could use em freely same as a 5th level wizard.

Now, what I did, and the DM approved readily, was find the gnomish stage magician we'd helped earlier, and talk to him about buying some of his stage magic stuff, which the gnome was fine with (he was a real spellcaster who just happened to use it in theatrics instead of adventuring, putting on a 'brilliant' show for entertainment purposes).
So I came back to my party with
- A number of wands that did various useless magical tricks
- A few pints of flammable oil

The local authorities (with a semi-southern sherrif twang, which was a ncie touch) were berrating my party for causing such a ruckus. He let them go with a slap on the wrist cause he could tell 'they didn't mean no real harm', along with a warning to keep their noses clean until they passed to the next town. My party sheepishly agreed that the fun was over, and we headed to a nearby inn for the night.
We were going to get seperate rooms, but I suggested we'd probably feel fine with crashing in a room together (we did it in dungeons and the wilderness anyway) and it'd keep our cost down, which in the long run could give us more cash for crucial gear, so my party agreed that we'd just rent a sizeable room and work out some sleeping arrangements there. We roleplayed it, arguing over who was gonna sleep where without letting it get too heated, with people arguing that they weren't sleeping on the floor until the party wizard reminded everyone (me included) that we all have bedrolls and blankets and sleeping gear in our packs, like always. Having a pillow makes sleeping on the floor more bearable, and we let the fighter (swashbuckler, actually) sleep in the bed cause all the extra physical stress was worse on the joints and back ect.

So the Dm tells us we all fall asleep while I'm handing him a note. The party starts describing waking up, and he gives us the always ominous "Oh no, wait." Which means he's being the devil.
Or in this case, that I'm being the devil.

And he starts making them roll listen checks over the swashbucklers snoring, which they fail, and are very freaked out about.

Especially when they realize, the DM didn't make ME roll a listen check.

The DM makes them roll a few more, which made me nervous, but none of them passed. They were starting to get nerve wracked, with the rogue actually grabbing his character sheet and yelling "WAKE UP MAN, WAKE UP, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!" but it was too late. I abandon the notes and say aloud to the dm "I splash the rest of the oil in the swashbucklers face".

Jaws drop.

DM: You wake up with a cough and a snort, immediately assaulted by the overpowering smell of violatile, COMBUSTIBLE chemicals.
Swashbuckler: I shout "What in the hells are you doing?!" loud enough to wake the party.
DM: Sure, I'll give you that. Everyone stirs, the smell of flammable oil permeating the room.
Me: I wave my crossbow pistol around and say "No no one move, or this is liable to get very messy very quickly" with a sweet smile.
DM: Nate roll a spot check (Nate's our wizard, and he passed the check). You notice the bolt loaded into the crossbow pistol is glowing faintly, a dull red tip that, even in your groggy state, realize is probably ripe with magical fire.
Nate: I say aloud "For the love of god no one move"
Swashbuckler: Screw that! Roll initiative, I jump out of bed at top speed and attack with my fists!
DM: Jump out of bed at top speed?
Swashbuckler: Yeah
DM: what's your Dex? *rolls a secret dice* take 5 bludgeoning damage from smashing your face into the wall of force over your bed
Swashbuckler: you've gotta be KIDDING me. Where the hell did THAT come from.
Me: Out of character (which we just say out loud) The gnome uses moveable walls of force to roll marbles over the tops of the audience
Swashbuckler: What the hell? what's that mean?
Me: I'll explain later. Back in character now though. I figured you'd be the one to try something like that. Aren't swashbucklers supposed to be INTELLIGENT?
Swashbuckler: Fine, back in character, what do you want from us?

So I went on to explain that I'd gotten some unique magical gear while they were all wasting their time peaking under waitresses skirts and smashing mugs of ale on random passers heads. I tell them that they're all allready under the effect of one of the spells. Which is controlled by me. And that if I decide, they will immediately take 1d2 points of fire damage any round I decide I'm unhappy with them. A weak effect... except that they are all soaked, along with the room, in torch oil.
I also tell them that, while they get will saves against the second effect, I can try to force any of them to freeze, or pick the direction they run in (which will be away from me, requiring them to close the distance if they want to attack, if they get a chance to).

Wizard: Ug. God. Allright. What do you want us to do?
Me: Burn for me.
Wizard: ...what?
Me: I activate the fire ability. "BURN FOR ME!!!!!!"
DM: everyone flip a coin for damage, and then roll 1d6 for fire damage as the entire room flares up like the pits of hell themselves.
Rogue: Oh *EXPLETIVE* Oh *EXPLETIVE* THIS IS NOT HAPPENING.
DM: No, it is, you're very much on fire.
Swashbuckler: I roll off the bed, avoiding the wall of force, and ATTACK.
Me: Not really.
Swash: huh?
DM: Roll a will save.
Swash: Oh you've gotta be *expletive* kidding me. *rolls and fails, by a wide margin*
Me: He runs out of the room
Swash: Runs out of the room screaming "OH GOD I'M ON FIRE"

The DM goes on to explain that everyone in the inn goes into panic mode as the flames spread out of our room and a group of random people run by FULLY engulfed in flame. Along with making them roll 1d6 for fire damage randomly (about once a round). All while I run behind them, laughing maniacally, making them run in random directions and freezing occasionally, while on fire, screaming "DANCE MY PUPPETS, BURN BURN BURN. BURN AND DANCE! HAHAHAHA"

Then I cast invisibility on myself and dissapear into the alleyway (we're outside at this point, along with the evacuated inn).

DM keeps making them roll 1d6s while they dance for me unable to put out the flames, and freezing anytime they try to stop drop and roll or go for something that might help. when the wizard is at about 1/5th of his hitpoint total, the DM gives them this.

DM: Suddenly, the illusory flames wink out of existance, and you're left standing, panting in terror, under the night sky. In your skivvies.
Rogue: WHAT?!?!?!
DM: Good question, I'm sure you'd be wondering what the hell that was about in character too. But there's no time for that, the local authorities show up, and immediately place you all under arrest, dragging your protesting forms into the night, saying he knew you were trouble and that he shoulda locked you up after the barfight.

Jaws still dropped.

Me: I watch and wait while everyone tries to figure out what happened, until the crowd starts shuffling nervously back into the inn or leaving as warranted, and sneak back to my room, locking the door and curling up in the bed.

I slept soundly (though the room did still smell of oil) and got up bright and early to wait by the jailhouse for my party.

The local lawman and his goons escorted them to the front, and told them he wanted them out of town by nightfall, or they'd spend a lot longer than one night in the pokey.
I asked them if they slept well, with a huge grin.

I explained to them that the ILLUSIONIST I'd gotten all my magical gear from assured me that none of it would cause any real damage, but that it still felt "hot enough to make the front row break a sweat when it flares up on stage".
Swash: I guess I don't really need to ask WHY...
Me: No. You DON'T. back in character. I lean in to the party and look the rogue dead in the eye, and say in a small, friendly whisper, "don't *expletive* with me." and walk away.

Jaws are still mostly dropped here. Rubbing forheads and eyes in great annoyance/recovery.

Me: I shout out "Are we gonna have any more problems? Or do we know who's the baddest dog on the block now?" (I'm a shifter and all).
Rogue: We'll be good.

And there was much rejoicing. By me. I've got my eyes peeled for them trying to turn this into something more, but I'm confident I can stay one step ahead of them if they try to. Hopefully they'll realize they had this coming, and that I didn't have to use FAKE fire, and was being very generous to them in how I got my revenge. Afterall, it wasn't FAKE fire that was burning me. Or my clothes at least.

Good times, good times.

Wooter
2007-05-24, 09:22 PM
That... Was... AWESOME!

Pirate_King
2007-05-24, 09:46 PM
Almost poetic

Krimm_Blackleaf
2007-05-24, 10:31 PM
Might I say, you are a genius.

Draken
2007-05-24, 10:46 PM
A true masterpiece, a true masterpiece indeed.

Winged One
2007-05-24, 10:55 PM
Your vengance wins the internet. As an aside, I'm stealing the OP for the expectations of my own binder character, since he's paranoid enough to expect such things from his own party.

MaxMahem
2007-05-24, 11:35 PM
Two words for you:

Paranoia XP

Play one session of that, and at will bring a whole new meaning to the term backstabbing.

Krimm_Blackleaf
2007-05-25, 12:34 AM
If it's cool to post it, I have my own little backstabbing story.

Alright, first thing to note is that I am a CE elven sorcerer, traveling with a LG half-elf bard/risen martyr and a LG elven wizard who is my loyal half-brother. Somewhere along the way we ran across a group of exalted NPC's, which included a redeemed tiefling, an exalted paladin and an exalted fighter. We managed to use an undetectable alignment spell on me to save my life(an act which may drop you down to CE yourself). At another point, we were separated and my group was sent to a mind-flayer sorcerer's castle, who was a nemesis of the group of exalted people. I promised him the head of the paladin, and in return he would reward us with something.
So late in the night I go to a graveyard, making sure no one's peeking at me, I dig up a corpse and transmute a fresh corpses head to look just like the paladins. I return the next morning with the severed head of the 'paladin' and the illithid seems pleased. But he then reveals he knew I decieved him and then decided to kill us, so in between when it's revealed I lied and when he decides to initiate combat I grab a statue (despite being a sorcerer, I have excellent strength) and chucked it through the window, shattering it. I proceeded to jump out, taking both falling damage and broken glass damage, leaving my companions alone with the near epic level illithid, and I ran, killing a few low level orcs.

....I came back eventually, after the illithid left. Ariath is never to be trusted again.

Fizban
2007-05-25, 12:51 AM
SilverClaw: BEST STORY EVER!

Blackleaf: also good.

I really have nothing else to say, carry on.

Krimm_Blackleaf
2007-05-25, 12:55 AM
SilverClaw: BEST STORY EVER!

Blackleaf: also good.

I agree, mine sucked.

Renx
2007-05-25, 01:51 AM
Epic. Totally epic.

They probably did save the entire party with their first stunt, even if it was luck that the peasants tried using fire. The second story was total win, as you kept them unharmed from the start. I don't think they'll try to get payback for it, as they probably have a sense of humour (and you did explain to them what and why you did).

I've been the brunt of far more malicious 'pranks', which ended up ruining an entire session. I no longer play with that crowd.

The Glyphstone
2007-05-25, 07:31 AM
That.

Was.

Fantastic.

Green Bean
2007-05-25, 07:54 AM
That was the perfect revenge. No one's characters were actually hurt, but you certainly did 1d6 fire damage to their pride. Man, you just gotta love illusions. :smallcool:

merrja666
2007-05-26, 05:29 AM
I know how it feels to be backstabbed.

We were playing an evil campaign with a really evil DM (though if we survive we get tons of gp and magic items)

After escaping an epic-level prismatic dragon (we were only ECL 12 at the time), we fell through a rift in space/time and landed in a barracks. A Paladin barracks. Well, to cut a long story short, we managed to kill the epic-level Paladin and his 30 or so ECL 10 compainions. We rested, then decided to venture out of the room we fell into. At this point I left the room, to get a Coke. The rest of the party came to a room, and as none of them wantd to go in, they threw my charcter into it, and blockaded the door. I came back, just when the DM said that there were 12 Paladins in there, each with 2 crossbows that ca fire 2 bolts at a time, (the DM made the type up), with rapid reload, and manyshot.

Suffice to say, my character, a druid with 90 or so hit points, didn't survive long. In the first turn, my character suffered 120 points of damage, and my animal companion - a giant constrictor - suffered 180.

The rest of the party then simply fireballed the room, and left.

SilverClawShift
2007-05-26, 03:04 PM
I know how it feels to be backstabbed.

*snip*

At this point I left the room, to get a Coke.

*snip*

I came back, just when the DM said

*snip*

didn't survive long. In the first turn, my character suffered 120 points of

*snip*

The rest of the party then simply fireballed the room, and left.

Wow. Holy crap. I could never play with a group that handled things like that. What the hell is your DM on? Your party did something that not only progressed things, they did something to you while you weren't even at the table to raise an objection? How does anyone in your group ever go to the bathroom, I wouldn't leave the freaking table unless everyone else was gone too.

And sometimes having challenges that are way way too much for your level thrown at you can be a good and fun occurence. But ""in the first turn, my character suffered 120 points of damage". What? Could you repeat that?
You went to get a drink, and came back to your DM throwing 120 points of damage at you? After moving the story along without your input, and letting your group do something that you wouldn't have agreed to?

Holy crap.

I wouldn't avoid GAMING with these people. I'd avoid HANGING OUT with these people.

(uh, don't take that personally, I guess they are your friends and all. But wow.)

merrja666
2007-05-27, 03:59 AM
You went to get a drink, and came back to your DM throwing 120 points of damage at you?

You think it was bad for me?

Another PC had been sacificed to a Dark God by the other PCs!

Foolosophy
2007-05-27, 04:49 AM
when i read stuff like the OP said, I am a bit jealous because, while my group is great and fun, they never roleplay quite as much/diverse.

then I read stuff like the "i got hit for 120points while away" and I am really glad my group isn't like that all;) :p

Nomrom
2007-05-27, 07:07 AM
That story was pretty amazing. And I can completely understand where you are coming from too. Me and my friends were never a very serious group. we were basically just playing a game and hanging out. We probably talked more than we played during each session. We only kind of roleplayed and no one really had backstories for their characters. So anything like this was pretty much fair game. If you had a slightly viable reason for it you could basically go ahead and do it. Nothing we did was ever as epic as your revenge was though.

Poppatomus
2007-05-27, 07:18 AM
Good Story. Bonus Points for the Eddie Izzard transition.

Maroon
2007-05-27, 08:14 AM
I have this Neutral Evil Bard character who's pretty cowardly. Basically, any encounter starts with the DM asking me if I'll be having my usual Invisibility. I've never intentionally got anybody in danger, though. Still, there's the usual exchange of Undetectable Alignment and Detect Evil between me and the Paladin (really, you'd think he would stop doing that after sharing a party for a couple of months).

The Paladin, however, would do me in whenever he gets the chance. It's a good thing the party leader owes my character a few favours.

merrja666
2007-05-28, 04:49 AM
Well, after the latest sesson, there is (yet another) nice juicy bit of backstabbing.

We were burgling into this house (its not part of the plot - we just wanted to), and we have killed everyone there.

There was a cleric outside on a wagon, as a getaway vehicle.

Inside there was 2 rogues and a sorceror.

Everyone is pretty high level at that point.

Anyway, we were just stealing everything that wasn't bolted down on fire, or weighing over 20 tonnes (we once stripped a house bare - nails in the floorboards the floorboards - all that was left was the foundation, which we didn't have time to take - it was nearly dawn). Well, the rogue rolled a 1 on a balance check - he was a halfling and trying to get some vases on top of a cabinet - and the whole thing fell over, the vases smashing, and the torch he was carrying setting some curtains alight.

The house was set alight, and loads of city guards came pouring into the area, beelining for the burning house.

The cleric outside tried to Bluff them but he failed his Bluff check, so simply used Flame Strike on the guards, then used Word of Recall to teleport him back to the inn in which he was staying.

The sorceror used Invisibily and Fly to escape the burning house, and a Wall of Force to trap the rogues.

The rogues got executed.

The cleric and sorceror gained 5000gp from stolen goods.

(It would have been more, but they could only carry so much)

CrazedGoblin
2007-05-28, 05:05 AM
Burn the heathen! but wait hes not burning! haha :smallbiggrin:

hippie_dwarf
2007-05-28, 09:33 AM
I never thought that being bound to Karsus would be useful in any situation. I was wrong. A perfectly exectuted and awsome revenge :smalltongue:

DomarSaul
2007-05-28, 11:06 AM
That was delicious.

Starsinger
2007-05-28, 11:34 AM
So I got my revenge tonight, and it was sweet and tasty. . . Good times, good times.

I... I don't know what to say. That was beautiful. I don't think, the people I regularly play with would be cool with this, though. One is exactly the kind of person who would flip over a table due to a hotel on board walk.

EagleWiz
2007-05-28, 06:21 PM
That is great. Although if I were you I'd watch my back. They might want revenge.

Overlard
2007-05-29, 07:15 AM
I've backstabbed party members a couple of times. The first was when we were an all-evil party (no surprises there), but had been working extremely well together. The final session comes around, and we breeze through the final encounters in the first half an hour. We take the item we had come to recover back to the guy whos paying us. As I'm the one holding the item, the employer insists on talking to me alone, which the rest of the party were surprisingly OK about (I was the face of the party anyway). The DM takes me to one side, and basically says "we've got 2 hours left to play, and frankly I'm done. My brain is tired, and I don't want to come up with anything else tonight. If you want, you can take all the reward and leave. I bet the others will come after you though. With the reward, you can buy anything you want to defend yourself against them. If you don't want to, we'll just grab some drinks for the rest of the night." I decided to take on the rest of the party.

I was given a huge sum of gold, and teleported back to the castle where we recovered the quest item, which was now abandoned. The surrounding town was pretty fantastic for buying magical equipment, so all I had to do was decide what I wanted, and to get ready for the encounter.

When the rest of the party worked out that I wasn't coming back, they were fairly pissed. They had used the last of the teleportation scrolls to deliver the item, and there was no other quick way to get to the castle where I was. It took them 2 weeks to get to me.

The characters:

Soulknife/rogue/assassin. My character. Kind of a weird mix, not too powerful, but very fun to play.

Barbarian. Started off with Int 8, had had been reduced to 5 by various mechanisms. Little more than a beast now, but hit hard. Hard.
Sorcerer. Fairly standard blaster type. Most of his spells allowed reflex saves, which I was fine with. Not a huge threat, but worth taking out quickly.
Fighter. I know fighters aren't powerful, but the character was smart & sneaky. He'd screw me up some how if I gave him a chance.
Cleric of hextor. Very nasty, with a high wisdom and a fantastic armour class. He was going to be my toughest enemy.

Basically, instead of buying lots of magic items, I spent the majority of my money on potions, and some on the services of a local illusionist. After the party had navigated the various traps in the castle (I had been their trapfinder, so it was up to them to remember where they had been, with some success), they reached the room where I was hiding - invisible. We had fought some monks in this room before, so they knew what it looked like and what was around.

There were three doors in this room, one leading back to where they came from, one went through to another corridor to the kitchens, and one went into a secret sideroom where we had found some loot. There was also a large table in the middle, and several chairs dotted around.

The party entered. The DM had them make listen checks, and with only the barbarian having any ranks in it, he was the only one to hear the creaking sound, like someone slowly moving on floorboards coming from the secret room. As the character was stupid as hell, he followed the noise, through the open secret door. I touched the secret closing pad secreted in the wall (I had found it with a search check in the high 20s last time we were here, so I was fairly confident that none of the would discover it), and the stone door slammed closed behind him. The cleric and fighter rush over to the door and spend several rounds trying to find a way to open it, while I spend my time studying the sorcerer who kept away from everyone else, worried it was a trap. Two psi-blades went through his chest from behind, and he rolled poorly on his save against my death attack.

Current situation: 1 dead sorcerer, 1 trapped barbarian, 1 panicking fighter, and 1 still-calm cleric.

The cleric and fighter abandon their search and spread out, looking for me. , I toss a silenced tanglefoot bag at the cleric. He gets entangled, and starts to look worried. The fighter is stuck at the other end of the room, with a huge table between him and the troubled cleric. He jumps up on top of the table to run across it (being the shortest route), only to find it greased and falls straight on his ass. The cleric starts chipping away at the tanglefoot bag, and motions for the fighter to get out for now (OOC, the cleric's player told the fighter to go wait until all my buffs wore off - just a little metagamey :smallwink: )

The fighter managed to get back on his feet,slid off the table, and ran for the door to the kitchen. DM had him roll a wisdom check, which he failed miserably. The fighter ran head first into the wall. The employed illusionist had created an image over the wall, making the door appear 5 ft to the left of where it actually was - the wis check was to see if the fighter would remember where it had been previously. He bounces off the wall and is once again on the floor.

The cleric finally hacks through the tanglefoot bag, and manages to move far enough away from it so that he can speak again. He prepares to cast a spell, but is somewhat annoyed to discover I have sleight of handed his holy symbol away from him the previous round (and moved to the other end of the room, next to the fighter). I only have one round of invisibility left, so I full-attackattack the prone fighter. A combination of several critical hits, and some fantastic damage rolls (I've never sneak-attacked so well since) means that the fighter is now down to -11 hit points.

Current situation: 1 dead sorcerer, 1 dead fighter, 1 trapped barbarian, and 1 holy symbol-less virtually-useless cleric.

Or so I thought. :smallmad:

My invisibility wore off, and I stood near the cleric, ready to do a quick bit of taunting before turning invisible again and finishing him off. Before I could act though, he reached into his Heward's Handy Haversack and pulled out a spare holy symbol. Damn. Serious oversight on my part. He then casts destruction on me. No biggie, I thought. Thanks to all my buffs, I only needed a 4 or more to save against it, then I can go back to my hit & run.

I rolled a 3. :smallfrown:

That was the end of that encounter. The cleric stomped off, pissed that I had killed so many of them. He completely forgot about the trapped barbarian, who was within the still-active silence until he was several miles away. At which point, he was so pissed about the whole thing, that he decided to "leave that stupid animal to his fate". The barbarian sat, waiting for his friends to come back and rescue him until he died of dehydration.

Bit of a weird ending for the campaign, but it was fun being the big bad for my comrades. :smallbiggrin:

geez3r
2007-06-03, 09:50 PM
SilverClaw, I hope you realize just how much of an inspiration you are, that story was truly epic. I also need to play a binder in the near future...

Damionte
2007-06-04, 01:25 AM
I have a party infighting story to share.

My group has been together for about 3 years now. All are veteran adult players. All having played D&D for between 15-30 years a piece. With that in mind we've never really talked about the concept of the PC Party vs the Story. True character conflict so rarely comes up, as we will usually spend at least a little time making characters that mesh. OR the story keeps us too busy to worry about character personality disorders. :)

This event was about 2-3 months ago in our current game. The PC's are a homegrown group of heroes. Meaning the town they adventure out of is the one they grew up in. "Most of them anyway." They have ties of loyalty here through blood and tradition. :Most of them anyway."

A small bit of background. Their home city has found itself the seeming target of an Orog invasion. (Like Orcs but smarter). While the PC's were off to the north looking into some trouble this small army of Orogs had moved into the area surrounding our home town of Deeoch.

When we returned home we were surprised to hear news that not far from town a sizable army had been amassed. We decided to go out and see what that was all about. As we left town we came across a weird sight. A small group of mounted Orogs were running at full gallop towards the town. They were being chased by a larger group who were shooting at them. Being the heroes that we are we jumped in. Killed the pursuers and took the leader of the fleeing orogs into custody. He wanted to see the lord of the city as he had urgent information. We searched him to make sure he was clean and took him in.

He talked of some split within the orogs. How some didn’t' want to attack the humans and how some thought it a way to cement thier own foothold in the territory blah blah blah. Point being that we could remedy the situation by going in and killing this new upstart leader who had led the Orogs down this path.

We fell for that hook line and sinker. We tore off on this crazy mission to infiltrate their HQ and take out the head man. Hilarity ensued. Meanwhile the Orog turned out to be a Sorc. who charmed the Lord into his presence then took him hostage. Locking them both away in the high tower of our own keep.

We returned from killing what we thought "may" have been the upstart lord. We didn't have a good description and ended up killing the wrong guy. This caused the army to march on the town anyway.

The party had a scroll of teleport to get us back to the city as soon as possible but it wasn't high enough level to get everyone back. My character and my follower stayed behind and rode back by horse. This meant that the party got back about 24 hours before me. (The Cleric) "This was the end of that weeks session."

The next week we picked up where we left off. The party ( minus me ) was back in town. And the lord needed to be rescued. I brought in a guest star PC for the week. A military trained Archer who had arrived in Deeotch with urgent news from the south. It turns out an army of Illumians had marched on the kingdoms southern provinces. This meant that the reinforcements that were marching north to help defend Deeotch from orogs had been forced to turn back to face the Illumians.

Coincadentally, we had a returning player this week. My best friend in RL had returned to the group now that his Rl schedule allowed him to dedicate Sat nights to D&D. By coincidence he was playing an Illumian Beguiler. Funny thing is he had no idea about the Illumians coming in from the south. We the players were just now hearing about this. The DM also did not know about him brining in an Illumian. The player had changed his mind about his PC "again" just as we were walking out the door that afternoon.

The main party of PC's having returned to town were were informed that the lord had been kidnapped. They bumped into the beguiler and another new character. A paladin of chaos. The paladins player ha dlost his previous character during the assault on the orogs camp.

I'm not sure how we incorporated the Illumian Beguiler. I think he literally just walked up and joined the party as we went into the dungeon. I actually sat out this session. I didn't have a stand by character in my folder, the GM let me play the part of some of the monsters during the rescue mission.

Anyway this new rag tag party then goes through and rescues the lord. As it turns out there was more here. When they found the Orog Sorc and his charmed minions, there wasn't a fight. The beguiler used his own telepathic abilities to override the sorcs charm on one of the guard who opened the door. The beguiler was the first through the door and he stabbed.. (or seemed to stab) the sorc, who disappeared. "In actuality the sorc had a contingency spell in place. we the party didn't know that though.

Anyway the lord thanked the party again and we were welcomed to the council of war to discuss the fate of the city.

My new character was part of this. During the council I revealed information I had learned on my way to the city. (Which the DM passed me on a sticky note.) The Orogs with the help of hill giants were moving siege engines up towards the city. The PC's of course volunteered to take out the siege engines.

On the way out there was a bit of role play and some discussion but not a ton as we were short on time both in game and in real life. We wanted to get to the fighting since the rescue of the lord hadn't let anyone really roll any dice to calm thier bloodlust. :) So though there was some talk it was mostly related to how to deal with the coming situation. we didn't start going into our life stories and backgrounds. It just wasn't the time.

During the battle with the giants the Beguiler charmed one of them. This giant picked up the beguiler and walked around with him on his shoulder for most of the fight. "To protect his new little friend." While up there the beguiler was forced to perform some bit of magic that caused him to drop the illusion he was using to hide his illumian heritage. See up to this point we did not know he was an illumian. We thought he was human. My character knowing what he knows of the Illumian invasion of his home cities to the south, and seeing the way this one was coincidentally buddy, buddy with the enemy at times was alarmed.

Rather than stick around to do the usual looting of treasure from the enemies bodies, I ran ahead of the party back to the city proper to report on what I had just found out.

It's important to note here. My character did not know these people. Though they were trusted by the city, it had been made clear that the Illumian was not one of their number. he was someone new who just walked into town the day before.

I got back ahead of the party by about an hour. "They stayed behind to tear into some orog reinforcements and split up the loot." I told the lords of what I had learned. The coincidence was too close in this case. First an Orog worked his way into the nobles trust then turned on them. Then an Illumian who's people are attacking from the south just happens to show up, and dispatch the orog, "Who's budy by the way we never discovered." It was all very suspicious. The nobles though were not completely convinced. They were willing to judge an individual by his actions and not condemn him. But the question was out there and when the rest of the party returned to give their report they noticed the room was a bit cold. especially since they allowed the Illumian and the Paladin to speak for the group. since they were both "Face" characters. Previously my cleric was the face but he was just now arriving in town and had gone to see about his family first before rejoining the party.

Oh another important note. The Paladin was also a new character. I forgot about that. He arrived with the beguiler. The guy playing the Palladin had had his previous character killed during our assault on the orogs camp. I forgot about that sorry. The player of the Paladin is also not known for his level headedness. good thing he was playing a Paladin of chaos.

Anyway to get back to the lords court.

On the way back to the city the beguiler had suggested that the best course of action would be to abandon the city. Get all of our people out and turn the city over to the Orogs. Then perhaps retake the city with the help of the main human army when it arrived. This idea didn't go over very well with the court. Whom I had just told about his heritage. So it seemed as if he really was playing the part of an infiltrator. Who else but a foreign spy would suggest such a plan.

"Truthfully I don't know what he was thinking with that plan. he honestly thought it would be the best course of action. The PC's knew the orogs did not currently have enough force to take the city. especially now that they had no siege engines. The lords knew that.. hell even the orogs knew that. They were waiting for reinforcements to arrive the same as us. We had learned that during our assault on their camp."

The beguiler and Palladin were becoming aware of the "feel" of the room. The Palladins player put two and two together. He knew I had said something as he'd just realized I had not returned with the rest of the party, and had slipped the GM a note. "something I rarely ever do." At this part he starts yelling.

.. "What has this ranger told you? What lies has he filled your head with." This wasn't helping the situation at all. It was just making them look more guilty. The lords explained their situation the beguiler and Palladin counter pointed where they could but it was clear they were losing the discussion. Only the beguilers ungodly ranks in diplomacy was keeping them from being put in bonds.

At this point my bud playing the beguiler started getting nervous and as is his way he turned to deception to try and get out of this. His character build is all about deception and trickery. Charming and hiding his spells. he attempted a skill trick to hide his casting of charm person on the lords primary advisor. As a ranger I had a very good spot check and turned out to be the only person who saw him cast his spell. I called him out on it. Accusing him of trying to hide his spell casting. For charming this poor Paladin into backing him in his ploy to undermine we humans.

At this the Paladin drew his sword and challenged me in an attempt to avenge the honor of his beguiler companion. I who had been standing in the corner of the3 room with my bow, called for the guards pulled my bow to my eye and fired 3 shots. . . At the beguiler!

As a trained warrior my character knew that a caster of any kind was for more dangerous than a paladin with a sword in heavy armor on the other side of the room. Plus I believed the Paladin was simply a charmed victim anyway. I didn't roll that well and actually missed one shot. Thus the beguiler did not die right then. He survived my shots with about 12 HP's.

Ok this started a bit of a confused riot. The paladin charged me but being a Paladin was not effective at all. Our Parties other fighter though did bull rush me and put me on the ground. The lords guards weighed in and just started trying to separate everyone. while the beguiler cased mirror image on himself.

(That was smart and actually saved his life. Had I been able to shoot him again right away he would have been dead. But I the player knew I couldn't shoot through the mirror image. In character I used the pretence that I didn't want to risk shooting at illusions in a crowded room where so many innocents could be hit.)

I just kept taking 5 foot steps towards the lord while yelling that he must be protected. The lords guards tried their best to try and disarm everyone involved. The rest of the party (Our rogue and Swashbuckler. just got back out of the way to wait for it all to boil over.) The Paladin was disarmed by the guard on the first round. Our fighter started trying to sunder my Bow. I took a bit of offense at that. You don't sunder another mans bow. This was actually kind of funny. he was very frustrated of three rounds of trying to sunder it. he figured as the big bad fighter he should easily be able to sunder my bow. Not realizing that sunder is an opposed roll and rangers are also full BAB classes as well. I simply out rolled him for three rounds. before eventually the guards managed to convince everyone to drop their weapons, and the lords wizard protector teleported in, dispelled all the current casting in the room and help restore order.

We stopped the game at that point and decided to pick it up the next week. The rest of the night was an out of game argument. The beguiler and Paladin argued that my character was a betrayer for telling the lords all of that information. That as a party the PC's are locked into each other no matter what their back stories are.

I didn't agree. I felt justified in the characters actions. Pointing out all of the evidence on the table. "Out of character the Dm also revealed to us some things going on in the background. For instance the Illumians had an agreement with the Orogs. The entire Orog march was a diversion to draw troops away from the southern border so they could sieze land. The Illumians and Orogs really were in it together. The lords had a few other OOC knowledge things to back that up besides the obvious coincidence of their simultaneous invasions.

To add to that the beguiler had hid his heritage and was proven to be guilty of charming the lords advisor.

To add another point for my side in the argument, I wasn't playing a permanent character. I was playing a one night, stand in character as mine was indisposed. Plus I didn't agree that the PC's should always just be the PC's in the party no matter what. i felt there should be some parity in the party. There should be some reason other than we all happen to be in the same inn for us to be adventuring together. The fact that I let my primary character sit out for two sessions was fact enough to prove that point.

I don't feel a party with very divergent goals amongst it's members should be forced to stay together simply because they are the PC's. If I have a character who situation ally becomes violently opposed to the direction the party is going, I have no problem retiring that character for one more akin to the other party members.

This case wasn't even that extreme. In fact had the two of them not over reacted in the throne room they could have talked their way out of it. it wasn't until they started drawing swords and casting spells at people that the Lords put their side of the story in doubt.

Anyway....... the next week the situation was resolved. With order restored in the courtroom cooler heads prevailed. My primary character arrived after having seen about his family. Allowing my Archer to become an NPC again. He was sent off to help ready the men at arms to defend the city. While the rest of the party went into negotiations with the Orogs.

We actually lost that mini war. The Orogs kept all of the territory they has seized. The Illumians had taken everything up to the southern river. It turned out not to be so good. plus the players argues for like 3 weeks sorting it all out.

Months later the beguiler player tired of everyone killing the things he's charmed alignment slipped to lawful evil. From the lawful neutral he was before. "secretly. only myself and the DM know that out of character. None of the characters know it IC.

The scene in the courtroom though upsetting in a way was actually very fun to play out.

we never really came to a consensus on what would be best. Total party loyalty, or a bit of realism for the sake of continuity.

Damionte
2007-06-04, 01:30 AM
ow that got long. Sorry about that. The situation didn't make sense though without knowing what built up to it.

Icewalker
2007-06-04, 01:36 AM
That sounds great. Looks like you have a good DM.

I'd say anyone who can set up a situation like that, including one where you have to kidnap a cleric for some purpose, then work it in later as a problem where no adventure would be expected is good at making adventures.

That sounds really funny though. That a homemade vestige? I don't remember a fire one, although it sounds general enough that it's probably in the book.



I know quite a character, named Bink, run by the best DM I have ever heard of, he does it as his job.

The guy who plays Bink is a sort of weaselish guy. His goal is to make Bink completely invincible, and he's doin a pretty good job so far. Considering how creative he is, and the kind of magic items, the DM dishes out, he has often considered totally murdering and robbing several other characters for their magic items. One of my guys has a sash of magic immunity.

Damionte
2007-06-04, 01:43 AM
I agree. he OP may have a very good DM. Or he got writers block and remembered suddenly that they let that guy go a long time ago. :)

TOAOMT
2007-06-04, 04:14 AM
In defense of your party members, as soon as "heretic" "fire resistance" and "instantly guilty" had all been said it dawned on me "Well come in, play 'hero' and demand execution by burning. The problem is, I doubt burning at the stake will be the typical way of killing heretics from now on.

As for party backstabbing, you're already handling such a thing better than I would. I heard tale of a guy playing a rogue disguised as a cleric (using wands and UMD) who pilfered the pockets of the other player characters. My solution was wait until the character was asleep and then stab him repeatedly (34 instances of stealing 3 gold accounts to 102 gold pieces, which, when put in terms of normal people money is a huge sum, I'm being more merciful than 20 years of prison and eliminating a dangerous criminal). I believe turnabout's fair play and the occasional backstab is alright so long as the character isn't designed to be backstabbing the party from day one (unless it's a plot device).

I say good game, and you're definately doing it right.

Tormsskull
2007-06-04, 06:12 AM
These kind of stories are excellent to show players that a little bit of party infighting can be very good for roleplaying. Assuming everyone sitting around the table is mature enough to handle that they may be made to look a fool, or possibly have their character die, and not throw a hissy fit over it.

I've seen groups that say that the party rogue isn't even allowed to try to pocket a couple extra coins, as it goes against the unity of the party. Every great story told in books or in movies is rife with inter-party conflict. Getting 4+ people together that get along perfectly at everything is very unrealistic.

Anyhow, good story and thanks for sharing.

Dihan
2007-06-04, 07:38 AM
That sounds great. Looks like you have a good DM.

I'd say anyone who can set up a situation like that, including one where you have to kidnap a cleric for some purpose, then work it in later as a problem where no adventure would be expected is good at making adventures.

That sounds really funny though. That a homemade vestige? I don't remember a fire one, although it sounds general enough that it's probably in the book.

It's Aym, Queen Avarice. She grants you the star on your left hand and one of her abilities is a fire halo.

SilverClawShift
2007-06-07, 01:26 PM
It's Aym, Queen Avarice.

Bingo. I didn't wanna say it, because I'm not sure what the rules are on mentioning details from WOTC books.


I agree. he OP may have a very good DM. Or he got writers block and remembered suddenly that they let that guy go a long time ago. :)

Yeah, when I say my DM is good at 'winging it', I don't mean he just makes up random stuff. He's just really good at weaving things that weren't connected together into a rich tapestry of player trauma. Things we do have a great chance of coming back to haunt us, and characters that we forgot months ago will suddenly show up in our inn room, and say "hello, my name is <name>, you killed my father, prepare to die.". Not literally, but you know what I mean.

Basically, our DM would give us LESS grief if we just slaughtered everything in our wake like some groups.

But where's the fun in that? :smallamused:

SilverClawShift
2007-06-07, 09:46 PM
Oh, I should point out that we wrapped up that campaign without any further backstabbing problems. I didn't let it get to my characters head, but they were all pretty obediant for the rest of the game in terms of actually acting as a team and not betraying their party face.

I guess none of them wanted to find out who was more creativly sadistic :smallbiggrin:

Matthew
2007-06-10, 12:17 AM
Heh. Sounds like you had a lot of fun. An enjoyable read, regardless.

Armads
2007-06-10, 02:44 AM
I've got a guy in my group who always plays a Chaotic Neutral/Evil caster that is usually a necromancer. It's really annoying because it usually ends up in us getting caught by city guards and getting interrogated because he usually tries to make bluff checks against the guards and tells really weird tales (on time, he was saying that he was subject to a curse that made him detect as evil).

He also backstabs his compatriots (and usually tries to animate them after that, if he's playing a necromancer). This would be fine if he wasn't that much of an optimizer/cheese-brewer, but he is. He uses Persistent Spell (getting it free via Anima Mage, Divine Metamagic) and is really annoying in the sense that he usually uses FR stuff which is usually much more powerful than our normal games (hello Incantatrix and Strongheart Halfling) or other stuff (Hello Illumian + Entering Mystic Theurge early trickery).