PDA

View Full Version : Help me Kill my Party!



EndgamerAzari
2007-05-21, 09:21 PM
Here's the deal, see? My DM is letting me build a dungeon to challenge our party. My character will not be present, and since he's the rogue, I'm trying to come up with some really nasty traps to spring. The challenge here, however, is to make some difficult encounters for an overpowered party, which consists of:

A human sorcerer
A Spirit Shaman
A half-Dustani "Disciple of Ezra" (essentially a slightly-less-moral paladin with immunity to metal)
An elven fighter/duelist
A half-dragon kender bard
and a half-celestial psion/thrallherd and his monk thrall.

All are level 14. Any suggestions?

Yvian
2007-05-21, 09:30 PM
Are they old school? If not, Tomb of Horror is a good place to get inspiration. You can't belive how many total party kills that one has done.

It's a AD&D module, but Wizards has updated it.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/oa/20051031a

Counterpower
2007-05-21, 09:33 PM
Depends on your priorities. You could just design a trap that has a Search DC of 1 billion and requires a Reflex save of 1 billion to avoid 10000d6 damage, if you really want to kill your party.

If you actually want to challenge them, I suggest.................. designing a dungeon with a series of traps that can all be circumvented in the same manner. Why is that a challenge? Well, they have to run out of resources eventually. Make them all reasonably unique, but force them to expend resources at each one to bypass it. If they can retreat in the middle and come back more prepared, all isn't lost: give them a bait and switch. As they leave the dungeon, hit them with a trap that requires its trigger to be activated twice before it goes off. (Once on the way in, once on the way out.) Set up a bunch of fire traps, so they leave and organize lots of fire resistance. Then when they come back, they learn that they triggered an energy substitution trap that replaces all of the fire spells with cold spells on the way out. Basically, focus the traps not on killing them but draining their resources, and use what they think they know against them.

de-trick
2007-05-21, 09:34 PM
u did something bad cause most of ur characters are godly strong

EndgamerAzari
2007-05-21, 09:36 PM
Depends on your priorities. You could just design a trap that has a Search DC of 1 billion and requires a Reflex save of 1 billion to avoid 10000d6 damage, if you really want to kill your party.


Heh, I said challenge, not kill. Just to put them in their place, make 'em realize that my guy actually DOES have a purpose.

But the energy substitution thing is BRILLIANT.

I was also thinking about a mirrored glass hallway that they'll have to walk down, while ballistae are fired in from the larger room outside.

dyslexicfaser
2007-05-21, 09:43 PM
That immune to metal guy sounds like he could really crimp a trap-infested dungeon. They could just march him in front, and anything that isn't elemental or biological material just bounces off his shiny body.

Personally, I'd agree with Counterpower. Go at them with a war of attrition. If you're using creatures, reanimate them and send them back at the party from a different direction, maybe.

And if not...

These are the kinds of guys Tarrasques were made for.

EndgamerAzari
2007-05-21, 09:45 PM
They'd probably put the Tarrasque down in under ten rounds, sadly.... Gah. It seems like I'm the only one who CAN'T powerbuild.

But yeah, that disciple is a pain. So I gave the dungeon's boss an obsidian weapon to bypass it. That's gonna be hilarious.

dyslexicfaser
2007-05-21, 09:54 PM
Step one: Isolate the disciple.
Step two: arm a roomful of evil humanoids with rock axes or something.
Step three: introduce the disciple to your humanoids.

Of course, not only might it be considered pretty vindictive... considering the group... that will probably be followed by step four: the disciple murders your entire army.

Counterpower
2007-05-21, 09:56 PM
The cool thing is, it doesn't even have to be energy substitution. Human beings can be easy to fool sometimes. Just send a lot of creatures at them with one specific vulnerability. They'll run out of resources eventually. Undead might be a good idea for that, since you can use traps to reanimate them. This plot even allows for them to rest. Then, the next morning, they say, "well, we've been fighting undead for the past 8 hours." They ready for more undead. You send against them creatures that are immune to or empowered by positive energy. Their careful plans for undead are now completely useless.

That idea probably isn't as good as the energy substitution one, but it's built along the same lines: start with a war of attrition. They'll probably plan for another such war when they're preparing spells and/or doing any other variable preparation. You then hit them with another war of attrition, but one focusing on an entirely different resource. One that they don't have since they focused on other resources. The easiest way to kill anything is to strike at its weak point. A party with loads of fire resist and plenty of cold spells is going to have a very hard time with a white dragon, even if said dragon is at or below their skill level.

Also, make it a dynamic dungeon. Every time they take a rest or time off, have the boss set new plans in place based on what he's learned of the party.

Only problem is, you may be getting evil glares from your party afterwards.

EndgamerAzari
2007-05-21, 09:57 PM
Good idea. The 'split-the-party' concept has occurred to me, but when people can teleport, it's a bit of a pain. And damn Eliza (the disciple) duel-wields greatswords. Don't ask how... :smallannoyed:

On an unrelated note, is there some sort of "Anti-psionic circle"?

dyslexicfaser
2007-05-21, 10:03 PM
Thats another good idea there. It sounded like your end boss was a melee-type, is he or some underling capable of scrying? 'Cuz that'd let you realistically put Counterpower's ideas into play.

Only thing I can think of off-hand is an Illithid, and that's more psychic energy meets psychic energy, not anti-psionic.

EndgamerAzari
2007-05-21, 10:11 PM
The end boss is a total of about level 26 wizard/cleric/mystic theurge/fleshwarper. He has tons of grafts, one of which is the sithilar heart. When he drops, he gains a lot of health back. Follow that with tenser's transformation and righteous might, and you've got a nasty surprise. I'm also thinking of giving him the Dungeon Lord class: you ALWAYS know what's going on in your dungeon. So he CAN adjust it. And he has clones elsewhere, so he can be recurring!

I'm thinking of tossing some Incarnum characters in there, so I can mix things up. Maybe a half-golem.... lots of constructs and undead--immune to magic and mind-affecting...

I think just wearing 'em out will be fun, fun, fun...

Thanks for all the ideas! Keep 'em comin'!

kyz
2007-05-21, 10:12 PM
Just because it doesn't exist doesn't mean you can't make it up.

LongVin
2007-05-21, 10:14 PM
Tucker's Kobolds mixed with a Head of Vecna(or similar item.) Watch insanity and death ensue.

Counterpower
2007-05-21, 10:18 PM
That depends on the way psionics works. If there's psionics-magic transparency, antimagic circle works. If there isn't, then it seems only reasonable that someone would have created such an effect a long time ago.

Also, if there isn't someone in this group capable of scrying, I seriously recommend putting one in, or maybe some traps that have the same effect. (Since the point of this is, um, traps. As far as I gathered.)

Splitting the party could be much fun. Just don't allow too much insanity. A teleport destination of "my friend Eliza's current location" is not valid. Just get them apart, and again fake them out with what they think they know. For example: a maze with porticullis traps designed to split the party. Add localized antimagic fields (or antipsionics) to prevent them from immendiately resolving the situation. Then, use the paths in the maze, and possibly illusions as well, to make them think that their friends are just a dimension door away on the other side of the wall. Of course, the other side of the wall is a 10 by 10 cube that immediately starts filling with water.

Vaniel
2007-05-21, 10:22 PM
Make multiple dungeons.

Why you may ask?

Moving walls.

---------------------------------

Send them in "The World's Largest Dungeon" :D
by Alderac Entertainement Group (if I remember correctly)

One-way wall of force effect, they can't get out the way they entered...

dyslexicfaser
2007-05-21, 10:26 PM
Jim Henson's Labyrinth meets Alien vs. Predator kind of moving walls?

Also, you should add an enormous rolling rock trap. For flavor.

BobTheDog
2007-05-21, 10:30 PM
I just MUST second the commendation for Tucker's kobolds.

Basically: Lots of traps, narrow passages and Small enemies swarming about.

Add a few Sorcerers flinging area effect spells while they're busy dodging all the traps, and you can make sure they'll be very softened up for the boss fight.

nooblade
2007-05-21, 10:43 PM
I'm partial to scything blades. Why? They're re-usable and always active. Cheap, cheap, cheap. Have some kobolds retreat down a couple corridors, all snake-like, with some scything blades set up so they'll hit every corridor, and turn them on. And since you can't use metal... Is there a 3rd ed equivalent of Black Blade of Disaster? Something magical and nonstandard that could be set up just as easily as a scything blade. Then just make them go back and forth through the same corridor, maybe after a few physical traps they can spend "find traps" spells on, and you've got free attacks against them each time they go through.

But, then again, they might just tunnel through the walls or something at level 14...

The most deadly thing about Tucker's kobolds was the size, they could retreat through small-sized tunnels, so find some good small minions if possible. There are so many books out there with crazy things I don't know about. Then again, you could just have passwall or phase door set up so the pcs can't follow. Reduce person might help too, that doesn't lower max hp. Vampire kobolds, anyone?

Get them to teleport into a trap after your troops phase away. :smallamused:
That'll teach 'em to follow without thinking.

Corncracker
2007-05-21, 10:51 PM
I'm going for party Isolation. Take the Sorcerer, and either drop him via trap into a No-Magic zone or trick him into entering it without the others. This Zone will cover a Labyrinth he must escape, filled with minor traps and fairly high Reflex Saves. (Unless of course he has a good Disable Device, in which case difficult traps)with

Next up is the Psion. HAve enemies hidden behind walls with one way mirrors and such, all of which are capable of Psionics. Pelt down the Psion with Said Psionics. Better yet, I haven't played a 3.5 PSion, but if they have abilities to lower the Stats of people, do that to not only the Psion, but the Disciple.

The Bard, take him down in a Zone of Silence or something. Don't even know if that exists, just some kind of spell that mutes everything.

Then, send them in to fight a group with non-metal weapons who, for whatever reason, focus on the Fighter and Psion. At this point, the Sorcerer should be out of the Labyrinth, almost dead. The Disciple and Fighter should be severly hurt from a mix of the Psionics and Stone clubbings, and the Spirit Shaman low on spells.

Now bring in the shock troops. Find a creature from a manual that comes in large numbers, and moves fast. With superior speed, the heroes can't run, giving time for the big guns to get close. At this point, the Shaman will be spent, and many used up sorcerer spells.

Now it depends on what kind of villian this is. You could say that at this time, his minions are coming back to report. If the Heroes try to leave or rest, the will meat with these guys. Forcing them to either fight, retreat into the labyrinth, or run farther into the dungeon towards the main villain. If they go in the labyrinth, they could easily get lost for a while, so even if they rest the villian can send in an appropriate team. Remember, this is in an Anti-Magic Field. So unless you count Psionics seperatley, no one can cast, leaving it up to your fighters to keep them alive in a Trap filled labyrinth.

Also, make it so the labyrinth walls randomly change when no one is around, so it makes them even more confused. Since there is no magic, they could move based on mechanisms in the ground that are weight sensitive, so stepping in certain areas cause certain walls to move.

And there is your dungeon.

Godhand
2007-05-21, 11:27 PM
Beholders really. Combined with some sort of heavy hitter (like a golem or giant) You can nullify and pick apart. One beholder can rip a party apart if the rolls go in their favor even slightly. A trap of some sort to position a beholder at each end of a hallway with a meatshield in front could easily finish the party.

Karsh
2007-05-21, 11:43 PM
Use a small army of... small creatures a la the aforementioned Tucker's Kobolds, but arm them with Rods of Wonder. This should aggravate the PCs enough that you can split them up rather effectively.

It's going to be hard to take Ragnarr the Unstoppable seriously when he's pink and leafy.

RaistlinandPals
2007-05-21, 11:50 PM
Tomb of Horror will likely kill some party members. Or make them hate you. OR both.

Nahal
2007-05-21, 11:55 PM
If they get really annoying, take a page from OotS and toss in a bouncy ball inscribes with some kind of Symbol. Insanity works, but you could always invent a Symbol of Dominion and get really nasty...

Bassetking
2007-05-21, 11:59 PM
A locked door with "Speak 'Friend' And Enter" written on the front in dwarvish, and a DC 35 lock.

(Yes, I know it was originally elvish, hush.)

A series of traps of 20th level Maximized Magic Missle triggered to activate on the command word "Friend" positioned around the room.

A hallway or two later, another "Speak 'Friend' And Enter" Door and trap combo, except that this time, the trap is activated by a pressure plate inside the lock.

RoboticSheeple
2007-05-22, 12:05 AM
Paint and chromatic dragons.

The red dragons look white! the blue dragons look green! The black dragons look gold (for extra fun if you can find some metallic paint). Plus it punishes meta gamers.

LotharBot
2007-05-22, 12:06 AM
My wife built a really interesting dungeon to challenge our level 17 party this past weekend.

The setup was, we found a haunted but very nice sword specifically keyed to kill an evil gnome rogue/assassin. Every few days, the ghost of a red dragon would reappear next to the sword and try to level drain us, and the only way to get rid of it would be to get rid of the sword or satisfy the ghost-dragon by killing the gnome. Sounds easy, right? Scry, teleport, kill the gnome. Only he has a buddy who casts false vision on him every morning (scrying is right out) and he hangs out in a room with forbiddance cast on it (no extradimensional travel into the room.) His guild hall was easy to find, with big signs pointing to it and everything, but of course he regularly minced the high-level parties that went after him. He had a very well trapped dungeon.

Here's the interesting part of the trap setup, beyond the mook level of the dungeon:
- a room with about 30 cockatrices in nests behind illusory walls, with illusions that make them look like puppies. You walk in the room, trigger a noise trap, and they all come out and try to stone you. And unless you make your save, you think they're all puppies. Ugh.

- a 35x25 room with two huge (15') stone golems. Golems are programmed not to act until someone either comes into the room or attacks them. Then their programming is, essentially, to prioritize things they see casting #1, creatures not wearing armor #2, whatever the other guy is hitting #3, and defend themselves #4. This room is basically designed to kill arcane casters, or at least waste a lot of your resources. If your wizard walks into the middle of the room while visible, he will die.

- a very large room with a plus-shaped wall in the middle and 4 alcoves at the sides. At first the party thinks this is a great place to be ambushed, so moves with caution. Then they find a single rogue... who steps behind a wall in one corner and pushes a button. He disappears. Each corner of the room has an assembly with 4 buttons: one big one, and 3 small ones pointed at the other 3 corners. So we figure, he's teleporting around. Fine, we'll put one person camping by each of the 4 corners where the buttons are. As we spread out, he pushes the big button... which disactivates the teleporters and drops the room like an elevator. When the room drops, there's a 10' stone wall separating each quadrant of the room, and arrow slits in the walls. The party is now effectively separated, and the rogues outside plus the one inside can pick a single isolated target and get at least a round of sneak attacks on him. (Lucky for us, they attacked our half-orc Barbarian with improved uncanny dodge and DR 6/-, and did a grand total of zero damage to him instead.) Consider something like this to split up your party.

- a room with a few pillars and fire (20d6, no save) that flows in from each wall one at a time and periodically shifts direction. The party solved the puzzle -- run to point A, wait behind the pillar for the fire to shift direction, run to point B, wait for the fire to shift direction, run to point C, wait... so of course we figure we're done, and start shuttling people to the other side. The barbarian carries one of the halflings over. When they arrive, they find it's an ambush -- the room isn't a meaningless puzzle, it's a way for the boss to split us up so he can shoot at us one by one.

- the boss room itself, where the ambush was taking place from, had pillars all around, and levers that fired off various spells: lightning bolt and fireball targeted on certain areas, and heal and greater dispel targeted on the lever-puller. This meant the invisible assassin and his mooks could sneak around and fire off damage spells at us, and if we managed to hurt one they could Heal or remove various debuffs. (As it turned out, locate creature + glitterdust + the haunted sword finished off the assassin fairly easily... once we got to him. But that was the hard part.)

The philosophy of the dungeon was this: waste your resources, split the party up, make you think you've solved a puzzle when you've really fallen into a trap, disrupt line of sight, and use all of that to isolate and attack specific party members.

And of course if you don't have a rogue, this becomes far more difficult. How exactly are you getting through the locked doors out of the elevator room? Without a rogue, it might take long enough to bash the doors down that two or three party members get captured (merciful bows) and get their fingers cut off (effectively making them unable to cast or wield weapons.)

dyslexicfaser
2007-05-22, 12:22 AM
Those traps kick the HELL out of any dungeon I've ever run (not that I've been on more than, maybe, 3-4 dungeon crawls).

Very impressive.

ClericofPhwarrr
2007-05-22, 12:25 AM
Speaking of punishing metagamers, if you're group is up-to-date on their DND lore, then introduce them to a kobold wizard named Pun-Pun, with a viper familiar. Only instead of him actually being the Pun-Pun of much popular reference, he's just a kobold wizard. Then make it so he's slightly annoyed by something they've done.

Watch as they try everything to avoid a conflict with Pun-Pun, while you have a kill mechanism counting down at the same time (for example, a countdown trap that will kill all the players if they don't stop it, but that our kobold doesn't want touched. Make this Pun-Pun a fairly strong wizard with contingency, so that if they *do* try something against him right off the bat, the fascade doesn't shatter immediately). If they know you're out to get them, they'll be even more inclined to believe it's the being wrought from the cheese of loopholes.

My stand-in DM session turned out amazing that way, when I used a ton of what the players learned from the WoTC boards to lead them on with false information. Ah, good times. :smallbiggrin:

Morrandir
2007-05-22, 01:24 AM
I would also suggest Lovecraftian Geometry.

Example:

Party enters hallway, door seals behind them. Hall is 30' long, 90 degree right turn at the end. (all halls are perfectly level)

Hall 2: 30' long, 90 degree right turn (making L shape so far)

Hall 3: 30' long, 90 degree right turn (angular U shape)

Hall 4: 30' long, ends with large room, does not angle to the right. At all. Laugh as the first player to realize what's going on begins crying.


Dang near impossible to map this sort of dungeon, then just have it incredibly long traveling-wise. Once the boss is killed, have mass amounts of Anti-magic/psionic circles activate, and start a fuse reaching an incredible amount of conventional explosives. Giggle as they attempt to escape through truly random hallways and rooms, which are different than how they came in.

Krimm_Blackleaf
2007-05-22, 01:27 AM
Use this monster. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2395350&postcount=422)

Renegade Paladin
2007-05-22, 01:54 AM
Since you mention the dungeon lord PrC, I presume you have access to Dungeonscape. Read chapter 6. Memorize it. Design the most fiendishly complex full-room encounter traps you can come up with. Use poison and lots of it. Oh, and give the dungeon properties such that it suppresses teleportation. That'll screw 'em up real good. :smallamused:

Renx
2007-05-22, 02:13 AM
Just a comment, if the lead guy is invulnerable to metal, just change everything to, say, obsidian. Also, the traditional one:

Locked door, every attempt to break it from this side will fail. The floor in front of the door triggers a falling block trap (SPLAT). If you want to REALLY annoy them, there's first a trapdoor, on top of which the falling block trap falls. No reflex save against splat :P

And if they ever get the door open, it opens to just a blank wall. ^_^

And riddles, everyone loves riddles. And poison traps, lots of poison traps ^_^ Who cares if they have a huge Fort save, if the poison-filled corridor they need to pass is a 100' radius spiral ? Also, you get huge modifiers on them figuring the spiral out.

You can also design the fortress with a multitude of hidden tunnels. All the walls have metal filaments and are made of different kinds of earth so rock to mud or passwall tricks don't work, then just make all the hidden doors only open from the tunnel side. That way your bad guy can send in dozens of minions (or the minions can open the door for more and more undead, then lock the door again) , and when your players try to find the latches for the hidden doors (which, of course, aren't really there -- and since there are no hidden doors from that side, it's just a wall, no elven door-sense), all they'll find is more and more traps.

The metal-invulnerability can be worked around easy. Stone, obsidian, acid, fire, cold, poison, wood(thorns, or thorn seeds that grow inside your armour if your dungeon houses any druid-types, and besides, who's to say that enchanted *wooden* weapons make poor damage?), infected caltrops (does his invulnerability just stop damage, or is his skin simply unbreachable by metal?), nets (I love nets), trapdoors and falling blocks (great for dividing the party, too)...

As the Tarrasque was mentioned, you can have some dungeon walls be tarrasque skin. Pretty much nigh-invulnerable and all spells but acid bounce off it. Then just invent a few bouncing fireball (a few dozen 2' across that do 3d6 should do nicely) traps at the end of a long corridor. They'll bounce off the walls, floor and ceiling and gather up speed. I'd say that's at least -4 to save.

dyslexicfaser
2007-05-22, 02:17 AM
Though realistically, why would everyone in the dungeon be swinging enchanted wood or obsidian around when metal is so much easier to come by?

Greyen
2007-05-22, 02:21 AM
All I have to say is - 1 well prepared monster race rogue (my old DM used an orc) with a cross bow that knows the dungeon. He pops out behind the party vis, issuionary/secret/whatever door plugs who evers in the back and ducks back. While the party chases him he leads the through a series of traps made to slow/injure them. He escapes because no one can ever get LOS on him for more than a second as he rounds the next corner. Once out of sight he hops into the next secret hall way to do the same. he knows the dungeon he knows where everything is, he set all the traps if not triggering them as he goes to catch the party via various buttons/levers hidden in the hallways.

If the party catches him he reaches out and touches the wall where he's standing and "shoop" down shaft A to place B.

if that isn't enough I see that they do not have the best set up for combatting undead. Make another one of the big baddies cohorts be an evil necro cleric with some form of undead template I like the huecuva for clerics, or a decent level lich.

I really like undead so this could even go a step further, the lone mob could be a ghost/rogue. Pass through a wall...manifest or use TK and trigger or backstab.

Another way to mess with them right off the bat is to trap them in the dungeon with Dimension Lock/Anchor type of site. This way there is no out except the other end. No sleep, Rope trick doesn't work, and wandering mobs or other minor environmental problems keep them away. Maybe the whole dungoen is supported by chains across some valley or floats and is listing side to side, Balance checks DC 10 every few steps or fall prone, can't sleep if you are rolling across the floor. Constant ethereal screaming of the horrors that have transipered in such a dark place, Will save DC 15 every hour in the dungeon or collect a cumulative -2 to everything untill they run screaming, "can't sleep the clowns will eat me....".

With such a high power party the options are endless. I agree that the best way is to wear them down then to just splat them.

One dungeon I like to run groups who are new to me is a clerics' monastery. in the basement are the testing rooms. Have an egg time handy for this one, the ticking and "real time" reactions really gets to players. 1 person can enter each room, each room tests a certain "virtue" like patience where you just make the player wait. Sealed 10x10 room. AMF, and dim lock. One hole 1" wide in the ceiling. One in the floor. The word patience is written in common on the far wall. 1 round after the door seals behind the character the whole in the ceiling starts dumping water in the room at a rate of 2 feet per minute. There is no way out except to wait, and get wet. 30 seconds after the room is full, player should be freaking out by now, the water begins to drain. After the room is empty the door opens on the far side. Fun! No character death, but wasted resourses and player insanity are great in these kind of things.

Commander Hayes
2007-05-22, 02:40 AM
Place two Gelatinous Cubes in the corridor they're in, one on each end so there's no escape. If they defeat them somehow, have the floor be a trap door to a pit with a Tarrasque in it. Then have Tucker's Kobolds ambush them if they win THAT. They're good as dead.
Edit: If not, just put a crapload of orcs and beholders where they are.

Tyrael
2007-05-22, 04:02 AM
I would also suggest Lovecraftian Geometry.

Example:

Party enters hallway, door seals behind them. Hall is 30' long, 90 degree right turn at the end. (all halls are perfectly level)

Hall 2: 30' long, 90 degree right turn (making L shape so far)

Hall 3: 30' long, 90 degree right turn (angular U shape)

Hall 4: 30' long, ends with large room, does not angle to the right. At all. Laugh as the first player to realize what's going on begins crying.

I'm confused, so the players travel in a U and get to a large room. How is that diabolical?

Imrix.
2007-05-22, 04:17 AM
Give the dungeon lord a super-powerful bodyguard.

I recommend the dreaded Ikea Tarrasque. You know, this one; http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20160

Keva
2007-05-22, 05:21 AM
If I may I would like to give this a try. Now take in check, I have never played D&D. Simply read the comics YET love the idea of playing D&D... ._. no one will play with me though.

Have the dungeon positioned within that of the ruins of a town which had been massacred by Orcs years ago during the establishment of whatever Kingdom the town is positioned in. For the sake of this we will call it Grado while the town Green Port. Green Port itself is to be established upon the coast of the sea yet due to rough currents outside of the city it was never actually a trading port and merely established for it's military placement as a fortress between two cities where soldiers could be garrisoned and respond to a attack on either city to the north and south of it. Therefore due to the city's size it had a population of about five hundred peasants and two hundred Imperial soldiers. All was massacred during a raid in the middle of a night and the dead was left to rot throughout the town never buried, while the city was looted and burned to the ground for the most part therefore never repopulated. The Heroes' party has been drawn to this town due to Grado wishing to repopulate this city due to recent piracy in the two towns Green Port was once positioned between and needing a safe guard. Yet wishing to insure it's safety he has hired mercenaries to respond and clear out the city of any infestations. Yet a mercenary squadron of about fifty never returned from their mission and now the Heroes' have been recruited to clear it out by Grado.

When the city first come into sight from the north they will see it clearly run down, the twenty foot wooden walls have crumbled with age yet are still standing and the watch towers of the city are equally crumbled. The reinforced wooden gates have been busted in. The Heroes' will likely enter through this north gate into the city which as noted was basically burned down and the bodies left to rot where they are and the stench of the dead is more than common yet carrier birds are seen throughout the city. Something odd for a city which was last populated years ago which makes them think it is the mercenaries the birds have been drawn to. So the Heroes' will continue to look throughout the town and it is only after reaching the town square they will discover the mercenaries, or what they think to be them. Within the town square will be found vast quantities of scattered AND DRIED blood, while weapons are abound within the area and the clothing as well yet horribly torn. .. yet within the clothes is still the flesh, yet the skeleton of the fifty mercenaries missing. And it is upon entering the town square that several of the undead will suddenly raise from the ground and start rushing, have about thirty do this.

While all about them they can actually see vast amounts of undead actually forming four by ten formations, all of which armed with melee weapons. Have two hundred undead like this, while on the roofs can be seen about fifty with bows and arrows. Have the Heroes' perform a spot check and if they succeed have them notice what seems to be a fairly newly constructed mine entrance to the east. Now remember they entered the town square from the north. Have more undead start marching from the south and west, while those which I already mentioned be the north. Yet also position some in the east. We want them to enter this mine.

Upon entering the mine they will find a winding set of winding wooden stair cases with NO lighting. Have the stairs at random intervals and have them creak with their weight. If someone's weight is over two hundred, every two stairs they will be forced to make a roll to see if it breaks or not. Lets say they get a 1d6. If they roll a six they break it. If they break it the Hero drops and takes plunge damage, the drop being about ten feet. Now if they roll a 1d6, if anything above or equal to a four, it breaks. And keep doing so until they stop. Have them continue this down perhaps fifty feet which will be five spirals of the wooden staircase. In the middle is a gap with NO railing to keep you from falling.. If it is possible to see if they slip or not on staircases, have them try. While they do this have the undead start pouring down into the mine.

When they get to the third set, do a listen check. If they rolled successfully they will hear the clank of metal against stone, do a knowledge check. If they succeed they realize it is mining. Have the undead chasing them down the stairs yet never have them catch up. If some fall, boo hoo. They are the undead and you got plenty of em. When the combined weight equals 1000 pounds though, have the stairs break :3

Yet lets say the Heroes have reached the bottom of the stairs, they will be given six passage ways. All of which mining can be heard from but one, the one of the far right. They hear the undead coming after them. Lets say they decide to go back up, it will eventually break and pin them in. Lets say they have a flying spell... have the undead blockade the entrance and do not let them out. Surround them with numbers and wear them out. If they use the half-Dustani "Disciple of Ezra" (essentially a slightly-less-moral paladin with immunity to metal) have the undead attack with bare weapons until he is dead.

Yet lets say they follow each route this is what they will be faced with. Each route will be listed from the left to the right, right being the one with no noise. So it will be 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 All pathways are lightless

1:

They will see a reinforced dirt pathway which goes five feet forward then makes a ninety degree right turn, they follow it and are faced with a right turn two feet in. Yet before the turn is two undead with perhaps ankle deep worth of dirt below them while a bucket full of gems in between them. Lets say sapphires. From there they will find a left hand turn one foot in and see a open treasure chest with the gems they have been collecting. Yet five inches from the chest, just a inch off of the ground will be a single clear wire. If they hit it, it will cause a collapse of the tunnel. Fifty feet worth of dirt, wood, and the building's weight above = death



2:

This will be a clear pathway that goes fifty feet in, dug out dirt and worthless stones pile throughout the pathway, and clinking can be heard behind a door at the end of the fifty feet pathway. If they open it, it will be trapless. The door extends three feet out, yet at three feet and two inches will be a inch high wire. If snagged it will cause the end of the pathway fifty feet back to collapse. This is just a slight barrier and perhaps only five feet of dirt thick have fallen. Yet at this noise will rush about seventy undead armed with pick axes and includes three high level Sorcerers with the following magical equipment... sorry since I got no idea about D&D can't use actual staffs

1: Allows twenty of max level magical missiles to be cast, four can be cast in a single turn.

2: Upon striking the foe a stone orb seemingly melds with the flesh, clothing, or armor it hit. Upon hitting it, it will cause a rather suction like feeling into the magical stone at the end, actually sucking the target into it. If it hits armor or stone however it will not work since it is natural elements. Say it eats only living things...

3: Allows light >>

That has to kill them... right? They got nowhere to run after all, and these should be three high level sorcerers around level twelve with tons of bodyguards (undead)



3:

Have hallway stretch ten feet out, upon the end of it there will be a ladder which stretches forty feet further down. Down here the enemy will hear plenty of mining and in fact they will find themselves faced with two hundred undead, yet thats jumping ahead. Have them find a lever at the base of the stairs and a single wooden doorway, have it hooked up to seem that it responds with the door. The fact is upon pulling the lever the ladder will be suddenly set aflame by a magical orb at the top of it meant to trap intruders. If they check the door they will find it unlocked but trapped... hehe. Yet recall a good spotcheck will let them see it is hooked up to something else :P



4: Have the 'enemies' stumble upon a three foot hallway then a five foot drop without a ladder. They will go down only to find a five foot tall hallway which goes down town three foot and cuts off again. This time they will find a seven foot drop. They go down and find a six foot tall hallway and they keep going only to find another drop which is eight feet. They drop and find a six foot hallway and proceed to go down a ten foot hallway. At the end of the hallway will be a doorknob which will open up revealing a mining room which is empty excluding twenty undead which don't notice them unless they roll a successful spot check. Yet in the room is also sapphires then another hallway. Let them clear this up and go down the second hallway which extends ten feet out of the room they just passed. Have the prior room be ten feet by ten feet. Now at the end of this one foot hallway will be a five foot drop, yet this is fake. It is infact a mirror which is reflecting the dirt above it to them. If the Heroes drop onto the mirror it will shatter and they will proceed to drop twenty feet and into freezing water, freezing enough to kill by the way. If they manage to spot it's a mirror they survive.. boo



5: They will find a twenty foot hallway which suddenly turns downward in a diagonal slope which they can follow ten feet down. If they proceed to go forward they will find a five foot hallway and a single STEEL door. Have them open said door, only a weak easily noticed trap on it. When they pass through they will find a ten by five room. They will find what looks like a room where a ritual went due to odd markings throughout the room and there will be a single pedestal in the room and a book upon it. Tied to the book's right top corner is a string, if it is pulled tight by opening the book, it will cause the steel door to slam shut and a magical force suddenly enchant it making it hot to the point of being able to melt metal over prolonged contact. They will be forced to bash down the door, let them. Bashing down the door causes the supports to fall and crush them all. HURRAY!

6: A simple twenty foot slowly lowering diagonal slope which from there extends into a ten foot hallway with a single door. Let them go in and they will find a office which is twenty by forty. Throughout all of the room will be several storage chests with locks and books which record the city's tracking long since. Yet it is by opening the door, WITHOUT noticing the string about the knob, they will cause a magical rune to set off within one of the treasure chest. It will be slow acting yet after three minutes will explode, within the treasure chest itself TNT or another explosive compound. If they notice the string and remove it, nothing will happen. The explosion should kill the sorcerers and weaken the warriors.


NOW REMEMBER, during all of this the undead from above are coming down. After the stairs break they use ladders. They will force them to decide though.

Now remember, there is only five of them. They can each take 5 hallways, leaving one. They will doubtfully do that.

Wait till they die. Each hallway can take out 1-5 if they fail spot checks. Use this and you got death.

NOW REMEMBER.. if they get all six and live, tell them within the treasure chest was actually a good amount of money and this was only the first part of the mine. That by looking in room's six logs they would of found out about a emergency office under the desk in the room which takes them up and from there they would emerge into the city. If they get this far.. they are lucky and your on your own. Try and kill em!

Renx
2007-05-22, 01:21 PM
Though realistically, why would everyone in the dungeon be swinging enchanted wood or obsidian around when metal is so much easier to come by?

For those pesky gods and races who are immune to metal, take more damage from cold iron or living materials. Mix & match.

Indon
2007-05-22, 01:34 PM
My own trap idea:

1-Design a custom trap of Inflict Light Wounds that resets automatically when used.
2-Fill a middlin' large area of dungeon with these traps, sprinkled throughout pressure plates, on likely traveling routes.
3-Sprinkle liberally with rubble.
4-Stock with one intelligent corporeal undead guarding the area with a bow, a stock of arrows, and at least one class level of Scout.

EndgamerAzari
2007-05-22, 01:55 PM
Though realistically, why would everyone in the dungeon be swinging enchanted wood or obsidian around when metal is so much easier to come by?

Because the boss has been watching the party for a long time and knows their strengths and weaknesses, that's why. :smallamused:

These ideas are really great, you guys. I can't wait to start drawing this out!

BardicDuelist
2007-05-22, 02:14 PM
Just a thought:

Use ability drain and level drain to an extreme. If they don't have the proper spells on hand, they will suck, and if they do they will waste them. Then you drain some more and they suck.

Monsters like rust dragons will kill party resources.

For the thing immune to metal, use ghosts.

They probably have a lot of HP, but their ability scores typically max out at 30 or so, so ability drain is like damage with less padding for the players.

For saves and than, anti magic fields help. I'm assuming that the metal immunity is supernatural. If it is extraordinary, then I don't know what to tell you (I would have never allowed it as a DM).

To prove that they need your rogue, make them make skill check after skill check (limited use items and spells can only help them so much).

Take Tomb of Horrors and White Plume Mountain and combine those ideas to really mess with them.

Lock every door (which are of course made of diamond reinforced adamantine, as are the locks). If they try to take it out (or the walls), they face structural problems.

Putting them underwater can really help, as they will probably drown. Even with water breathing, anti-magic and dispel magic can continually screw them over.

Anti-psionic, etc. should be used too if the anti-magic won't work.

One last thing, make anti-magic/psionic/etc. traps, then flooding or falling floor traps into areas with nasty monsters.

lord_khaine
2007-05-22, 02:35 PM
consistent use of antimagic fields is one of the cheapest moves when designing a dungeon, and a sure way to be peltered by 10d6 points of dice damage.

Umarth
2007-05-22, 02:54 PM
1) Dungon is underwater or floods. Works wonders if you have aquatic or undead creatures they are fighting.

Elliot Kane
2007-05-22, 03:03 PM
Find a copy of Grimtooth's Traps, if you can. Some of the stuff in those things is fiendish :)

LotharBot
2007-05-22, 03:08 PM
You don't want the dungeon to simply be a series of "oh, you don't have a trap finder, so DM fiat says you're screwed" encounters. That makes your players think you're either (1) a bad DM, or (2) petty and vindictive because of their opinion of your rogue. Instead, make the dungeon into a series of encounters that are extremely difficult, but would be a fair bit less difficult given the rogue's abilities.

Remember the rogue's abilities are not merely "roll a d20. The trap is disabled." Rogues have several types of ability: stealth, scouting, mastery of machines/traps, mastery of words and body language (diplomacy/bluff), and the ability to position themselves carefully in combat (tumble -> flanking.) You want to make an adventure where each of those comes up.

Positioning in combat is the easy one. Make a golem with a fairly high AC, such that your melee types have to roll high to hit it. Make sure to comment "that was really close, you might have hit it if the guy was being distracted by someone flanking."

Diplomacy and body language can be useful as well. Because your party has a bard, this section probably doesn't apply as much as it could. If you didn't have a bard, here's what I'd say: Have the party run into a "possible friendly" somewhere in the adventure. The rogue, of course, would've immediately sensed the guy was up to no good, but the rest of the party will normally at least take a few seconds discussing it... which is long enough for you to allow a surprise round for the other side. You can also have "neutral" NPCs around, who might turn into a fight that wastes the party's resources if their diplomatic skills are poor OR who might provide the party some extra resources (potions, information, treasure, or combat buffs) if their diplomatic skills are strong.

Stealth and Scouting are pretty straightforward. Combat-wise, they allow things like surprise rounds. They can also allow the party to enter into combat with a little bit of advanced intel -- if the rogue can sneak up and peek around the corner and see the beholder (or whatever) hanging out in the next room, the party can cast a few buffs and come up with a strategy. If the party gets to the corner without having scouted ahead and making lots of noise, the baddie is already prepared for them. One of my personal favorites was when my party knew there was a rakshasa (DR 15/good and piercing) and a fire giant nearby. The cleric aligned weapons, and then our two rogue types snuck up on the rakshasa and killed him in the surprise round. The party knew how nasty rakshasa were, so they really understood how worthwhile the rogues were in that encounter. And of course any encounter with a lot of cover and hiding opponents can be difficult for a party without a good scout.

Almost all of the rogue skills, especially machine mastery, are useful against traps.

Traps should actually be something the party has a legit chance of falling for and being weakened by, AND a legit chance of passing by playing intelligently and using the right skills. "Roll a d20. You find a trap. Roll another d20. You disable it" is not a trap, it's a pair of die rolls. "Roll a d20. Oh, sorry, the disable DC was 349, you fail. Everyone roll fort saves DC 937. You all die" is not a trap, it's DM fiat. The split-up-the-party elevator room I described before is a trap, though -- it could legitimately harm a party, and it could also be passed by a party that plays it intelligently. A rogue with sense motive might be entitled to a roll to notice the opposing rogue is trying to get the party to spread out.

Traps should use the players' choices against them, as in the alternating-direction fire room I described before. The players think they've solved it by figuring out how to get through undamaged, but all they've really done is split themselves up voluntarily, making it easier for the BBEG to attack them one at a time. Having a stealthy rogue who could have noticed the ambush, hid from it, and sent the rest of the party a signal that combat was coming would make such a trap far less effective.

Traps should require spot checks, search checks, disable device checks, and possibly sense motive checks, depending on the nature of the trap. Failing enough of them should have some negative consequences. These can be as minor as "the mooks waiting to ambush you get a surprise round" to as major as "a search result of 25 is enough to notice [treasure] in the rubble." "I pick it up." "Your search result of 25 was not enough to notice the rubble formed an unstable structure, and you fall right through to the monster den below."

If you include a bit of each of these, you'll have an adventure that showcases rogue abilities beyond "lots of skill points" and "sneak attack", and you'll provide your party with some good challenges. Best of all, you won't do anything that the party will think was unfair or vindictive -- every challenge will be legitimate and fair, they'll just happen to be challenges that were tougher than they would've been if the party had a rogue.

Draz74
2007-05-22, 03:44 PM
First of all, I support the notion to use Jim Henson's "Labrynth" as a base, because weird, haunted muppets and queer 80's-rock-star BBEG's are a lot scarier than actual danger of death.



A human sorcerer
A Spirit Shaman
A half-Dustani "Disciple of Ezra" (essentially a slightly-less-moral paladin with immunity to metal)
An elven fighter/duelist
A half-dragon kender bard
and a half-celestial psion/thrallherd and his monk thrall.

All are level 14. Any suggestions?

... I fail to see where the "overpowered" part comes in, except for the Thrallherd. Which, I guess, is enough all by himself to make the party overpowered. (Unless the Sorcerer uses spells like Celerity and Shivering Touch; that would be another overpowered character.)

dyslexicfaser
2007-05-22, 03:58 PM
David Bowie in skintight pants is the best villain ever.

EDIT: And the riding crop. Mustn't forget the riding crop.

EndgamerAzari
2007-05-22, 03:59 PM
I'm not DMing this, LotharBot. I'm simply building the dungeon. And the absence of my character is the reason I want to use a lot of traps: not necessarily to 'prove' anything, really, just because I know it'll mess with them and require them to think instead of 'oh Fireball everyone's dead.'


You really just have to be there, Draz. It's... complicated.

LotharBot
2007-05-22, 04:06 PM
I'm not DMing this, LotharBot. I'm simply building the dungeon.

You can still build the majority of what I stated into such a dungeon. Doesn't matter who's actually running the thing.


the absence of my character is the reason I want to use a lot of traps: not necessarily to 'prove' anything, really, just because I know it'll mess with them and require them to think instead of 'oh Fireball everyone's dead.'

A lot of the things I described would make them think.

Specifically, pay special attention to the "split up the party" traps, and the "it's a puzzle, and you solved the puzzle. Oh look, solving the puzzle plays into the BBEG's hands" traps. It can really force your characters to stretch their thinking. Especially once they've been split up a couple times... "OK, I bet this is trying to split us up too. The obvious solution is _____, but we have to come up with an alternative solution that doesn't end up splitting us up."

Bagera
2007-05-22, 04:25 PM
Have the boss make efficient use of monsters. for example have secrect tunnels that run all through the dungeon and a runehound with a telepathic link to the villian set to track the party as it goes through the dungeon, and plan intelligently as the party defeats his minions.

For the boss room have it be at the end of a long winding and trap filled cavern. as the party enters, they trigger a transmute stone to earth trap dropping the party into another cave bellow, and triggering a transmute earth to stone trap. fill that room with drowned, that don't bother passing their reflex save to avoid being encased in stone. just have the BBEG foil any attempts to escape the pit, and laugh as the party drowns from unseen enemies encased in stone.

Kaerou
2007-05-22, 05:44 PM
The end boss is a total of about level 26 wizard/cleric/mystic theurge/fleshwarper. He has tons of grafts, one of which is the sithilar heart. When he drops, he gains a lot of health back.


All are level 14

They're already dead. I hope you have something else to play.

Did the DM WANT you to TPK your entire party? Do you want to have everyone toss away their character sheets and start a fresh game? You're going to end your campeign. Thats an epic level challenge.

I hear Star Wars is fun for a while..

Morrandir
2007-05-22, 06:24 PM
I'm confused, so the players travel in a U and get to a large room. How is that diabolical?

They don't travel in a U, they travel in a full square, ending up in a place they didn't start from.

Anyway, if you truly wanted to be evil with this, have all the treasure be cursed or otherwise worthless. So, even if they do make it out alive, none of them knew it just 500 pounds of worthless junk they dragged out.

dyslexicfaser
2007-05-22, 06:31 PM
That might be a lil' too mean.

EndgamerAzari
2007-05-22, 08:54 PM
They're already dead. I hope you have something else to play.

Did the DM WANT you to TPK your entire party? Do you want to have everyone toss away their character sheets and start a fresh game? You're going to end your campeign. Thats an epic level challenge.




Normally? Yes. Sadly, the whole party could probably take this guy down (if he was alone) in under ten rounds. They've killed demigods already. Don't ask me how. I haven't seen other peoples' character sheets. Besides, it's up to her how she uses him. I'm just providing raw material.

And on the subject of worthless treasure, I already have a treasure chest that sprays spiders over the whole room. The first floor is traps like that: most of them harmless, but annoying (the wrong switch covers the puller in honey and ants, a sliding floor drops into a pit of harmless but strangely affectionate eels, a spring-loaded floor panel shoots someone through a glass ceiling) in order to put them off-guard.

I am NOT actually trying to KILL everyone. I am trying to make things interesting. I don't think we've ever had a fight last more than seven rounds in the entire campaign, and that's a little disheartening.

Shoyliguad
2007-05-22, 09:01 PM
heres an idea, seperate them, alter them by making them get captured and force them to fight themselves while being attacked by random guys. That should weaken them!

mauslin
2007-05-22, 09:34 PM
In the May Issue of Dragon Magazine, it listed a ghost called a Dungeon Phantom. Basically it was an incorporal undead with a mage hand ability that went around resetting traps. There were a few other things, but they're not important.

Have the ghost avoid the party, and reset the traps behind them. In theory, the ghost could even modify the traps on the fly.

You could even have the ghost disarm a trap for the guy immune to metal, then reset it when the rest of the party gets there.

This could be really funny if you made the ghost himself suck at combat.

EndgamerAzari
2007-05-22, 10:04 PM
That sounds pretty cool, Mauslin. I wonder if I can find stats for that online.

dr.cello
2007-05-23, 12:24 AM
As others have said, making the party expend resources is ideal. Even if it's just mundane resources, like food, water, rope, chalk, string. Make the dungeon really cold, so they have to wear cold-weather gear. I don't know if the sorcerer has any useful 'create food/water' spells, but find a way to make them ineffective. And, of course, encumbrance rules are essential here--hopefully you can make them carry so much stuff they're overburdened, thus severely limiting their mobility in battle.

Have lots of entirely pointless and purposeless corridors and wings and sections of the dungeon. I am fond of moving walls if you can do that. Provide no indication which way might be the right way. If one way is heavily trapped and screams 'Go this way' to the metagamer, make it lead to a dead end with 2d10 gp and a couple of hobgoblins.

Make a dungeon which takes months or weeks to explore in game time. Make those obscure, unappreciated rules for things like fatigue, cold damage, frostbite, hypothermia, etc. take effect. Make exploring the dungeon a laborious, tedious process.

Of course, it would go better if they had the rogue, who has Decipher Script so he can interpret the map and know which corridors are worth exploring. And he could disable all these traps the party keeps encountering, and possibly find a few secret doors--they know that they're taking a really circuitous route, but none of them seem to be able to find any secret doors.

Basically, just make it a dungeon which is still entirely possible without your help, but which requires a lot more energy expenditure--your presence should be able to cut down on that a lot.

Kaerou
2007-05-23, 08:12 AM
Hmm, alright.. i'm taking that your party:

a, is not using wealth by level guidelines
and / or
b, are totally min/maxed powergameing with ridiculous class combo's.

My advice:

Mordainkens disjunction
and.. for kicks
Anti-magic fields.

Runolfr
2007-05-23, 09:56 AM
For starters, any trap with a Search DC >20 is impossible to find for a character without the Trapfinding trait, so a party without a rogue is in trouble there from the start. Numerous CR 16 traps (about standard for an over-sized CL14 party) should whittle them away pretty effectively.

Traps in combination are nice, too. For instance, if you dump the party into a water tank to drown them, you can also have a monster summoning trap go off to add fiendish sharks or other aquatic threats to the tank. Put what looks like an escape/maintenance hatch in the tank that's really a magic-dispelling trap to remove any water-breathing spells or effects they may be using. That would be especially effective if the hatch actually lead into a long, flooded tunnel so they'd be far from air when their breathing spells failed.

The assorted traps described in the DMG have costs in GP. You might consider what traps you, as a player, would install in your own dungeon if you had a given budget to protect something important for an indefinite period of time. I'm not sure how much you should budget yourself, but the combined "wealth by level" recommendation for the entire target party might be a good place to start.

Runolfr
2007-05-23, 10:00 AM
To be exceptionally annoying, you might use one of the schticks from the Tomb of Horrors. It's somewhat infamous for traps that separate characters from their equipment: go through this opening and you're teleported to the dungeon entrance, but your equipment get's teleported to a secure vault. Getting through a tough dungeon buck-nekkid is tough on characters of any level. Heck, just getting back to civilization without equipment can be a pain in the tuckus.

Shoyliguad
2007-05-23, 03:12 PM
thats got to hurt, alot.... since they are all over powered make them fight amongst themselves, it would be the perfect way to completly weaken them before they figure it out and find the boss if you do it right.

Just Alex
2007-05-23, 05:38 PM
Here's the same advice I give anyone when they're looking for good trap ideas: find the old L5R Tomb of Iuchiban box set. There's more party killing stuff in there than you would believe. Want a trap that requires Perform: Dance? It's in there. Want an endless horde of skeletons? It's in there. Want a trap that punishes parties with individual members who have overdeveloped senses of self preservation? It's there.
The entire dungeon is designed to kill, maim, and destroy. It's a boatload of fun to run.

Ardantis
2007-05-23, 09:57 PM
A fun trap I ran into was a hallway leading into the top of a large-ish, very very deep cyndrilical-shaped room with a single rope hanging from the middle all the way to the bottom, with a closed door at the ground level.

Basically, only the fighter-types will have the jump/climb to leap to and use the rope, and that's the trigger! The entire ceiling breaks open and a gelatinous cube (smooshed into a cylinder) big enough to fill the entire bottom of the room falls on everyone on the rope. The people still in the hallway see the ceiling fall and their compatriots get pulled down, leaving a slimy rope behind. The people down in the cube get automatically enveloped, and have to make repeated saves to avoid paralysis.

When this trap got pulled on me, my frenzied berserker got pulled down into the pit, went into frenzy mode, and began thrashing uncontrollably until he was paralyzed by a low save. It was hilarious- the mages killed it fairly quickly, but the humor/humiliation factor was high, we STILL had to figure out how to get through that door, and I was covered in slime for the rest of the dungeon.

Smiley_
2007-05-23, 11:32 PM
I would suggest lots of small, low level monsters. If you really want to bug them, throw a mess of rust monsters at them. This should remove metal weapons, metal armor, and metal people in a jiffy.

After they fight through that (maybe with sticks and blasting spells), swarm them with stirges. The meat shields should have had most of their armor removed by the rust monsters and their soft pink flesh is exposed to CON damage. any spellcasters wil have a hard time with stirges lodged down their throats.

If they manage to get past the stirges, you can throw several cloakers or ethereal marauders at them (15 or so). If used correctly, These monsters are lethal, even to high level parties. They should be brought down easily enough.

dyslexicfaser
2007-05-24, 12:15 AM
Here's the same advice I give anyone when they're looking for good trap ideas: find the old L5R Tomb of Iuchiban box set. There's more party killing stuff in there than you would believe. Want a trap that requires Perform: Dance? It's in there. Want an endless horde of skeletons? It's in there. Want a trap that punishes parties with individual members who have overdeveloped senses of self preservation? It's there.
The entire dungeon is designed to kill, maim, and destroy. It's a boatload of fun to run.
A trap requiring Perfom: Dance? That is Goddamn hilarious.

"Dance! Dance as if your lives depended on it! For they surely do!"

Roderick_BR
2007-05-24, 06:50 AM
Shamelessly stolen from Street Fighter V: Split the group, activate a high DC enchantment effect that makes each group see the other as some sort of monster.
If a group yell to the other, they can heard each other as if the sound were coming from far. Allow Spot/Sense Motive checks every now and them, so they can recognise the "monster's" fighting styles.

And a classic: Add several weak traps in a row. Take a random one and make THAT one a deadly one. When the playes get confortable with the weaker traps, they'll be taken by surprise by the stronger one.
"Arrows with 1d6 damage? Hah! We can shrugh it off, let's just keep going and heal before facing the BBEG... AH! Energy Drain!"

EndgamerAzari
2007-05-24, 03:14 PM
Oh, wow. Tomb of Horrors is great. I might make one of the floors of the dungeon an exact copy of it! It won't kill them, but it should be challenging.

Oh, and I came up with a riddle for them to solve to open a door. Tell me what you think:

"See-me-not smell-me-not taste-me-not hear-me-not
Yet nowhere's the place that you will not find-me-not
I work all day long but I don't make a sound
Fight me if you like, but you'll fall to the ground.

What am I?"

LotharBot
2007-05-24, 05:40 PM
Does the second line have one too many nots in it? Or did you intend to invoke its infinite range? The answer I'm thinking of is, of course,

gravity

Took me one read through... but I've been asked to stop answering riddles so other people have a chance, so don't judge the difficulty based on me.

I like it, provided you have a reason it matters... maybe the party has to use it in some way, like

reverse gravity, or put a lot of weight on a particular floor plate, or shift some object just enough that gravity takes over and pulls it downward and the door opens using that energy

dyslexicfaser
2007-05-24, 06:15 PM
I like it, but I think Lothar's right: it makes more sense with the line as "Yet nowhere's the place that you find-me-not"

EndgamerAzari
2007-05-24, 06:47 PM
Correct! And yeah, I kinda wondered about that second line, I think I'll change it.

I was thinking if they get it wrong, the gravity reverses, sending them catapulting towards a spiked ceiling or some similar unpleasantness.

Ar-Sakal
2007-05-24, 07:05 PM
I don't regularly allow powerplayers and minmaxers because I feel this kind of roleplaying takes away the social interaction and the depth of a story. My players know I like Bards (gasp) above Barbarians.

Anyway, from time to time a guy with the same kind of overpowered character as your mates joins my game. This is my guide to show them a great time by making them miserable.

First, remember that many war advocates from Sun Tzu to Basil Liddel Hart have said that the best strategy is based on misdirection and outflanking your enemies. That means stop avoiding direct confrontation and look for places where strenghts are weaknesses. That will force your mates to think of creative ways to avoid a trap.

The critical issue is making the most unpopular villain possible, exactly the type players are not used to fight. Not a 35lvl half-dragon drow vampire wizard/fighter/monk. Make the most unlikely enemy: a multiclassed bard/wizard (enchanter) with little direct power of conforntation, but with the ability to throw just whatever enchantment you like.

A guy is immune to metal? Geas him to make a daily sacrifice of blood with a particular knife made of metal, then watch in triumph as the guy finds his own ability is making him feel bad.

The psionist can do whatever he likes? Invent a poison or curse that makes him feel nasty effects every time he uses his psionist powers, or telepathically link the guy to the villain, so every time he uses psionic forces, the villain learns something particular of the guy, like who are their relatives, what does he hate, etc.

A half-dragon feels confident? The villain owns a particula orb who controls draconic creatures, making the half-dragon more likely to fail save checks. Then start making fall asleep, cursed, insane, etc.

Stormzen
2007-05-24, 08:12 PM
Make a room about 60' by 60', and then have an enormous gelatinous cube come at them while the door magically seals itself, and sets off some sort of hold person trap. Then the cube will dissolve them if they don't kill it in time.

EndgamerAzari
2007-05-24, 08:31 PM
Ehl Oh Ehl, gelatinous cubes. We 'fought' one that was trapped in a room like that once. All we had to do was stand outside the door and poke it. In the end, it shrunk and slithered away. I smell a recurring villain!

I've been considering the idea of a trap that requires them to dance to avoid it, as has been suggested by Just Alex. The room will consist of a large, crystal sphere hanging from the ceiling, from which Prismatic Rays shoot every few rounds in random directions. The floor will consist of pressure plates that shock them if they don't dance. The enemies will definitely include a dervish and perhaps a bladesinger, among many other annoying music- and dance-based foes.

Oh, this is gonna be sooooo evil.... :xykon:

Draken
2007-05-24, 08:55 PM
I was reading the thread and though, why don't you make a tridimensional - non continuous dungeon. Here's the idea.

1- The place has many vertical and diagonal corridors, not only the normal old horizontal corridors and stairs.

2- You spoke about gravity before, but only about the Reverse Gravity spell, think about making corridors with diferent gravitational orientations, i just love something i read once "let your party discover the worst way, that the 120 feet long corridor in front of then is in fact a 120 feet deep well".

3- Have dead ends with marked or unmarked teleportation circles on roof, font wall, left wall and right wall, each one leading to a diferent location, or not.

4- Don't forget about this: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0036.html
I think there was no actual way for her to find (or at least disarm) the trap, since the activation device was attached to the back of the door.

5- Magical Darkness, and couple it with permanent spells taking continuous effect inside it (a continuous lightning, a everbursting fireball, a Orb of Anihilation, that sort of thing)

6- A room full of normal mirrors with a single big armored statue in the middle. Nothing in it and no actual danger, your pcs will NEVER enter it, not without taking HUGE protections, dont forget about the Dispell effect in the back door.

Ominous
2007-05-25, 11:57 AM
Have a simple unlocked door at the end of the hallway. Opening the door results in detect magic being cast facing the hallway. Then have greater dispelling be cast continuously until no more magical auras are detected. The door leads to another hallway with another door with the exact same trap. This should really help rid the players of any enchantments. The second door leads to a room with an illusionary floor. The real floor is a steep funnel that leads down to a sphere of annihilation. Have the funnel covered in small blades and barbs and a steady stream of acid pouring down the sides of the funnel floor. They should have fun trying to climb up a steep funnel wall covered in blades and acid gushing over their arms and legs.

A personal favorite of mine is a room that is open to the sky having a reverse gravity effect. Up, up, and away!