How to do Weeping Angels in D&D?

[Solaris]

To preface: I've never watched Doctor Who. I don't care to watch Doctor Who. I rather dislike it, actually. Obsessive fangasming over a show tends to turn me off of it, and nearly everyone in my social circle has obsessively fangasmed over the show to the point where any interest I might have had has been utterly annihilated in a mercilessly endless torrent of backstory babble, quoted lines, and memes.
I feel the same way about Monty Python and the Holy Grail for much the same reason, but that's neither here nor there.

But I'm not here to rant about fanatics and the things they ruin.
Thank you, players who think it's clever to quote that movie and recite lines from it at all times, whether or not they're actually funny, clever, or even remotely relevant, but especially in the middle of me trying to describe a scene. Thank you oh so much.

Though I'm not, almost everyone in my gaming group is a Doctor Who fan and I'd like to pander to them by introducing some Weeping Angels as a threat. As I said, I don't watch the show (and no, I'm not going to, and no, it's neither cute nor funny to suggest that I do). Thus, I approach this topic only with the knowledge that they mimic statues, don't move when observed, move stupid-fast when not observed, and murderize things that they catch. The party is around 7th level, nearing 8th, and I'd like to build these things to be serious and credible threats for them in order to invoke more a sense of fear than of it being just another monster with an easily exploited weakness.

Therefore, with the infinite options of the DM available to you, how would you make Weeping Angels and how would you use them on your players?

[noob]

I believe the trick is that there is not more than what you said of them.
Simply do make them stop being able to act when seen and give them a correct stealth skill then give them some close range attacks and high speed(maybe like 60 base speed)
then some DR(8 or 10/adamentium is fitting for stone) and basically once you spotted them they have no chance escaping as long as you stay near of them(you will fast see the wizard annihilate them by simply staring at them and saying some words and waving the hands anihilating them with a fireball also when the team have the spell zone of visibility they can not possibly give any challenge so they should be at most CR 10 but you can put them at any CR.)
Construct might be fitting(I do not know their true kind in the serie) but you can give them any type you want

[Draconium]

I don't really think the Weeping Angels are a good enemy to make in D&D. Since they only move when not being observed, you'd have to introduce some sort of "blinking" mechanic or something similar to mimic that. Not to mention, all an Angel has to do is touch you once, and it's game over - you are transported back in time, so far back that you'll be dead by the point your "original time" comes back around. I suppose it could be interesting for a plot hook or something, but just for an enemy? It would be more frustrating than anything.

If you do want to use them, however, I'd make them into some sort of Construct, like an animated statue or a stone golem (just for stats and HP). You could balance them a bit by making their primary attack a touch attack that "displaces" some of the PC's particles in time, doing a certain amount of damage, sort of like that one psionic power that does a similar thing with teleporation. Increase the land speed to a high amount, and add in the stipulation they can only move and attack when the PCs have taken their eyes off of them. It might be a bit of a headache, but it should be possible.

[Vhaidara]

Yeah, the Angels don't work in DnD. Between the lack of blinking mechanics and even the lack of FACING mechanics, they'll never not be statues.

The best way I can recommend to use them is to hint (out of game) that you're going to use them. include some statuary in a scene description. And NEVER. USE. THEM.

Your player will take care of the rest. It's literally gazebo mentality at its finest.

[MyrPsychologist]

To fully create the weeping angels you would need to start factoring in blinking into your game. On average, a human adult is going to blink 15-20 times per minute. And from here you're going to need to calculate the movement speed of the angels. The show doesn't really do a good job of showing this because the angels depicted are typically in a "weakened state". I would probably say that you should also use such a weakened angel because at their apex it's supposed to be incredibly powerful and near impossible to stop them. I don't know what speed to put them at but we at least know that they don't break the sound barrier. So that's a starting point.

From here you should also consider the ramifications of scrying. The show demonstrates that remotely viewing the angels can also have an effect on the viewer. it could be extrapolated to include viewing an angel through a magical remote device used as a scrying implement. So I would include a hold person save when someone scrys them.

This being said, I would absolutely advise against such a monster because there isn't really a way to fight it. You can't crush it or fight it in its actual vulnerable form and the blinking mechanic would probably become extremely cumbersome and annoying to deal with. They're a villain that work within the confines of the show because it's a show and I would question how much fun they would be to combat in a tabletop setting. Maybe The Silence would be an interesting approach and much easier to construct and combat in a tabletop setting

[Solaris]

The best way I can recommend to use them is to hint (out of game) that you're going to use them. include some statuary in a scene description. And NEVER. USE. THEM.

Your player will take care of the rest. It's literally gazebo mentality at its finest.

That's even more evil than my "Pair them up with a medusa" idea.

[noob]

"I don't really think the Weeping Angels are a good enemy to make in D&D. Since they only move when not being observed, you'd have to introduce some sort of "blinking" mechanic or something similar to mimic that. Not to mention, all an Angel has to do is touch you once, and it's game over - you are transported back in time, so far back that you'll be dead by the point your "original time" comes back around. I suppose it could be interesting for a plot hook or something, but just for an enemy? It would be more frustrating than anything."

You really seem to forget players are immortal: they might just use reincarnation over and over for staying young and then they will have a super good advantage: they will have been so far in the past that they will be able to influence everything they wanted in history and they might get to be the ultimate gods of the universe before the adventure starts then they might help themselves more and then it will make an singularity in power making the adventurers progress indefinitely in technology and magical items and PX.
Basically adventurers are already universe breaking and you surely do not want to break more the universe by sending them back into the past far before the beginning of your history so that they mess up with all your history and historic figures.



"Yeah, the Angels don't work in DnD. Between the lack of blinking mechanics and even the lack of FACING mechanics, they'll never not be statues."
No you do not need facing mechanics you just need to use stealth rules because when you succeed your opposed check you are not seen

[Draconium]

You really seem to forget players are immortal: they might just use reincarnation over and over for staying young and then they will have a super good advantage: they will have been so far in the past that they will be able to influence everything they wanted in history and they might get to be the ultimate gods of the universe before the adventure starts then they might help themselves more and then it will make an singularity in power making the adventurers progress indefinitely in technology and magical items and PX.
Basically adventurers are already universe breaking and you surely do not want to break more the universe by sending them back into the past far before the beginning of your history so that they mess up with all your history and historic figures.

That sounds like you have the Weeping Angel encounter leading into a plot hook, which is what I was saying - it's a fast, cheap way to time-travel to the past. However, as a random fight that could break out in any dungeon? Or if the players don't want to time travel? Then it goes back to being frustrating. And if the players are frustrated, the game falls apart.

I'd say go with what Keledrath said. It's a bit mean sometimes to mess with your players' heads, but watching them psych themselves out every time they come across a statue cound be funny. As long as they don't hold a grudge over it when they realize there weren't any Angels to actually begin with.

[noob]

Anyway when you are a truenamer you always cast utterances on all the statues you see because there was already 215 tons of monsters looking like statues.

[MyrPsychologist]

Anyway when you are a truenamer you always cast utterances on all the statues you see because there was already 215 tons of monsters looking like statues.

No. They BECOME statues when observed. It's why they're supposedly such an "insidious assassin". So you could sunder them. Dunno what that would actually do, if anything. But you could.

[Tvtyrant]

Make them coat themselves in quintessence when they are being viewed, and it is sloughed off when they are visible. Instead of blinking I would suggest giving them some sort of deeper darkness ability which slowly snuffs out the lights in a room. The party has a certain amount of time in game to get out of the room and bar the entrance.

[Draconium]

Remember this above all else, though: The Weeping Angels are not enemies that can be fought head-on with brute force. They are designed to be a foe that you must use your mind against. You have to think when facing a Weeping Angel - charging into the middle of them is only gonna get you killed. They are smart. To beat them, you have to be smarter.

They aren't a hack 'n' slash type of enemy. They're more akin to a puzzle - you have to use your wits when you confront them if you are to have any chance. If your players aren't the type to do that, then Weeping Angels are the wrong enemy to pit them against.

[Inevitability]

Even better; foreshadow the weeping angels in every single way. A ranger claims to have seen a humanoid statue in the forest, which disappeared the moment he lost sight of it. A mad scholar keeps rambling about 'heaven's stony wrath'. A cryptic poem that basically says "don't look away" ends up in the players' possession. The party's tracker discovers unnaturally deep tracks, all leading to a single abandoned cave system. Make the players know that those time-warping beasts will be in there.

Except they won't.


As the players explore the caves, they come across a room with the aforementioned statues in there, which are currently being inspected by some kobolds. Make sure to give them plenty of chance to see the statues, making sure that at no time someone breaks eye contact. Attacks don't affect the statues. Why? They're illusions covering adamantine statues.

Now watch the players panic as they think of a way that involves the statues remaining observed without anyone having to stay behind. All while you secretly laugh, of course.

[ILM]

I think you guys are being too simulationist. Weeping angels can only move when they're not observed or when you blink. Inevitably, you blink sometimes. The net result is that they move slowly overall. The one certain thing is that it's game over if they touch you. So, 2 solutions : either you give them high speed and every turn roll 1d4 (on a 4 they act, otherwise they skip their turn). Or, they get to act every turn (cause people blink am the time) but actually move really slowly, which is you basically averaging out their movement. Otherwise it's basically having the PCs roll will saves every turn to keep their eyes open, with a dc that increases every time and resets if they blink, with the angels basically winning if every character fails their save at the same time... But that's a lot of bookkeeping and easy to metagame.

[noob]

Chicken infested commoner like half of the time is the solution just grab a spell component pouch and flood the universe with chickens making all the weeping angels completely obsolete.

[Pluto!]

The only supported form of visibility in 3.5/PF is lighting. I'd say that pressing it, you could treat lighting sources extremely economically, but basically the whole system is littered with ways to let your dudes see.

What you could do is treat every character as having a Gaze attack to Daze the angels for a round (automatically within a certain range and every time they direct a standard action at them).

Unrelated, but if you get pissy about conversations/games getting derailed by discussions of media you don't know, you're setting yourself up to get annoyed.

[Vhaidara]

My friend just had a great supplemental idea: Medusas.

You expect to find statues around Medusas. You also expect to avert your gaze. However, if your players suspect that there are Angels there, they will be paranoid about NOT looking at things.

[AtlasSniperman]

I've basically done what Keledrath and Dire_Stirge have suggested. Like you, my players were constantly quoting Doctor Who, So I figured I'd play along. They kept having to get information from a Wizard/librarian, who was always studying when they visited. Each time they asked what he was researching, I would drop a hint akin to Weeping Angels.

My Players went full Paranoid. I was going to use Mimics but then realized I didn't need to bother. It was a great trip while it lasted until a player asked the wizard how he knew those things existed:

"Oh I don't. I thought it might be a scary idea and was checking to see if anyone's done it."

[Coidzor]

Well, they're an instant death effect which is held at bay by using a nega-gaze attack.

Unless you actually have Chronomancy available, in which case they're more of an annoyance because then your players are sitting there with their thumbs up their asses waiting to be retrieved instead of rolling up a new character.

So you should probably have them pre-gen some stable of characters before you begin the campaign or one of your own that the players collectively draw from.

[Solaris]

My friend just had a great supplemental idea: Medusas.

You expect to find statues around Medusas. You also expect to avert your gaze. However, if your players suspect that there are Angels there, they will be paranoid about NOT looking at things.

That's even more evil than my "Pair them up with a medusa" idea.

That was pretty much the first idea I'd had for employing them. It's looking to be the strongest option I have, and there's a certain thematic linkage between the Angels being statues and medusas.
A vampire is a similarly "don't look at it!" opponent, but much less obviously so. It also has something of the Gothic horror vibe to it, too, which rather suits with murderous statues of weeping angels.

I'm not planning on having the Weeping Angels do any time travel to the players; I didn't know that's what they did to people (seems rather... underwhelming for a threat in a show about a time traveler), and that's not a plotline I really want to explore right now.
... At least, not yet.
I was actually thinking about representing their dangerousness with a hefty chunk of sneak attack damage. Knowing my players, seeing me roll a handful of d6's for a damage roll is gonna scare the bajeebus out of 'em.

Like Draconium mentioned, they're really more a puzzle monster than a straightforward monster. I want my players to have to think about how to win it, but I also don't want to completely obliterate the party nor have it be something that can just be beaten by throwing the barbarian at them and shouting "Sic 'em!" - I got the army of goblinoids (and later, kruthiks/kythons) for that.

I think I'm liking the darkness ideas as a way to have the Weeping Angels work around their vulnerability. In all honesty, I'm expecting the players to know to look at the Angels, and God love 'em I know they won't help but metagame it. That's why I wanna be one step ahead, either with something like a medusa or by having a darkness trap (did I mention they don't have a rogue?) set inside the room... right after they spot the "statues". It'd be even better if the light-based cleric of the sun goddess was a PC (I like giving players a chance to shine far more than I do NPCs), but "You see statues of angels weeping into their hands right before everything goes black" is still gonna induce terror.
I don't think this particular encounter would work well with a medusa in it, though.

I know mythologically, trolls were turned to stone by sunlight - perhaps have these creatures be incorporeal/ethereal in everything but bright illumination, which turns them to stone.


Unrelated, but if you get pissy about conversations/games getting derailed by discussions of media you don't know, you're setting yourself up to get annoyed.

I'm not seeing where I'm the bad guy in expecting my players to not start talking over me to repeat the same tired quotes for the ten thousandth time because someone mentioned anything that might be tangentially related to anything Monty Python said, did, or thought about, and keep up with re-enacting skits for about five-ten minutes in the middle of a scene where the mood is very much not suitable for it.

I don't mind derailments when we're puttering about and haven't gotten into anything yet, or are in a lull between high-interest stuff. I mind them very much when they kill everyone's immersion and disrupt the flow of roleplaying and combat. You may not have any trouble at all jumping right back into it, but I do, and when it's something so annoyingly tired as Monty Python quotes it pretty much kills the mood for me completely and I have to struggle to get back into it. This isn't something that's a surprise for my players; I usually tell them early on that my table is a Python-free zone and explain why. "Don't derail the game for everyone else because lolquotes" is one of the sorts of things I shouldn't have to tell a player. If I do, it's a sign that maybe their maturity level isn't a good match for the rest of the group's and they should probably look to fulfill their gaming needs elsewhere.

That's even without going into the absurdity of repeating an improv group's performance verbatim, ad nauseum. That's just starting in on the absurdity of thinking it's okay to waste everyone's time doing so.


Well, they're an instant death effect which is held at bay by using a nega-gaze attack.

Unless you actually have Chronomancy available, in which case they're more of an annoyance because then your players are sitting there with their thumbs up their asses waiting to be retrieved instead of rolling up a new character.

So you should probably have them pre-gen some stable of characters before you begin the campaign or one of your own that the players collectively draw from.

So what you're saying is, they'll fit in perfectly with Tomb of Horrors.

[Coidzor]

So what you're saying is, they'll fit in perfectly with Tomb of Horrors.

Yeah, actually using them in a capacity at all like how they were used in the show (to my recollection) wouldn't fit in with any kind of serious game, because either they're toothless and bog the game down with tedium or there's too much character turnover.

On the whole, though, it sounds like you don't like your player base, so maybe it's time to initiate a cull?

[Vhaidara]

I'm not planning on having the Weeping Angels do any time travel to the players; I didn't know that's what they did to people (seems rather... underwhelming for a threat in a show about a time traveler),

Less a time traveler and more a guy with a time machine. Which doesn't get brought with him.

[Solaris]

Yeah, actually using them in a capacity at all like how they were used in the show (to my recollection) wouldn't fit in with any kind of serious game, because either they're toothless and bog the game down with tedium or there's too much character turnover.

I see. I'm perfectly happy to do some pretty heavy renovation on them, so long as something approximating and recognizable as the original concept is in place.


On the whole, though, it sounds like you don't like your player base, so maybe it's time to initiate a cull?

No, no, nothing of the sort - or rather, I culled the asshat players long, long ago. My more recent groups have been perfectly great. After all, I'm willing to run a game for them, much less put monsters in from a show I dislike for them. If I didn't like my players, they wouldn't be my group.

[Ashtagon]

Base creature is a gazebo with triple normal HD.

Give them resistances up the wazoo while dazed. Increase their movement speed and attacks a lot.

Any creature of Intelligence 1+ has a gaze attack that only works on weeping angels, which dazes them for one round. A single gaze attack applies against all angels in a 90-degree arc who are visible. Any PC who intentionally does not use this gaze attack is effectively blind.

[Thurbane]

Gargoyles with class levels (Rogue/Assassin) and an at will Statue ability?


To preface: I've never watched Doctor Who. I don't care to watch Doctor Who. I rather dislike it, actually. Obsessive fangasming over a show tends to turn me off of it, and nearly everyone in my social circle has obsessively fangasmed over the show to the point where any interest I might have had has been utterly annihilated in a mercilessly endless torrent of backstory babble, quoted lines, and memes.

True - I feel a bit that way about New Who (or WINO - Who In Name Only). Whovians? Seriously?

I'm happy to have my untarnished memories of John Pertwee, Tom Baker and Peter Davidson from when I was a kid. The original series was a lot more fun, entertaining and less soap-opera than the new run.

[P.F.]

the Weeping Angels' special ability is called Quantum Lock. This ability freezes them at a single point in space and time; they are incapable of taking any actions while quantum locked. It is not an at-will ability per se, but is activated instantaneously (i.e., as a free action) any time they are observed. They cannot voluntarily suppress this ability. The effects of this ability should be the same as the effects of Time Stop: while quantum locked they "are invulnerable to your attacks and spells."

Observing a creature is not like a gaze attack, which requires the gazed-upon creature to return eye contact. Indeed, a Weeping Angel is technically immune to all gaze attacks as any opponent attempting to use a gaze attack on them would activate their Quantum Lock ability. Rather, observation could be based on line-of-sight, and the Weeping Angels given a level-appropriate stealth check.

Direct, intentional observation should keep them continuously quantum locked, but a distraction might give them the opportunity to make a stealth check. Perceptive characters will be harder to sneak up on than less perceptive ones, but the weeping Angels will use shadows or concealment to approach their prey whenever possible. Weeping Angels also have the ability to drain light sources; this could be approximated with a darkness supernatural ability.

Weeping angels are described as incredibly fast, so a speed of 60 is not too high. They can apparently fly as well, as evidenced by their appearance on ledges of tall buildings and the fact that they have wings.

Their special attack is called Energy Drain. It requires a touch attack, allows no saving throw, and if successful transports the victim back in time to a point before their birth. Although it does not bestow negative levels (as the name might imply), it will probably still be ineffective against undead, constructs, and anything else which lacks the temporal energy of a natural lifespan for the Weeping Angels to feed on.

As mentioned before, Weeping Angels are hard to integrate into a D&D campaign. Although it may be hyperbole, they are described as "the deadliest, most powerful, most malevolent life-form ever produced." Their high lethality (essentially save-or-die without the save) combined with complete immunity to attacks and spells makes them a very high-level, difficult opponent.

The classic way to defeat them is to trick them into looking at each other, permanently engaging their Quantum Lock until something physically breaks their line of sight to each other. To avoid this, Weeping Angels cover their faces with their hands except when they are attacking. However, D&D has options which exceed the scope of Dr. Who: a wall of force (or of iron or stone) could imprison them indefinitely; a character with a very high touch AC could successfully fight them in pitch darkness; a blindfolded magic-user with tremorsense or blindsight could target a Weeping Angel with a disintegrate or finger of death spell.

[Ashtagon]

...

Observing a creature is not like a gaze attack, which requires the gazed-upon creature to return eye contact. Indeed, a Weeping Angel is technically immune to all gaze attacks as any opponent attempting to use a gaze attack on them would activate their Quantum Lock ability. Rather, observation could be based on line-of-sight, and the Weeping Angels given a level-appropriate stealth check. ...

There's different kinds of gaze attacks. Some only require you to see the target (this one is more of a gaze defence). Some require the target to see you. And yet others require both simultaneously.

[Debihuman]

I statted them up. You can find them in my signature. See my creations. Here's the link: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=6009139&postcount=1. The weeping angels are both a monster and plot device. They don't murder people per se (though they can), they send them back in time and feed off the resultant energy. This puts the party back in time. How far back is up to the DM. You can use this as a side trek that lasts a short time before they come back to their own time line or it can be the start of a new campaign. If you are using High Middle Ages, you can send them to Viking eras or Stone Age. The more modern the setting the more interesting the past gets.

Do you intend to purposefully get the details wrong by not being familiar with the source material? And just because you don't approve of gratuitous pandering of a TV show doesn't mean you wouldn't enjoy it. Sounds a lot like cutting your nose to spite your face. it's not everyone's cup of tea (but the show is over 50 years old so there's a lot of material to draw on). It started a children's program with no budget in England. I started watching in the 1970's when PBS aired it in the US. The new Doctor Who is not a reboot but a continuation of the original show (and canon even includes the US movie of Doctor Who). It is a show that has an exceedingly rich background and detail. Granted, it's sometimes hokey but it's also incredibly witty and imaginative at times.

Neil Gaiman has written for the show and won a Hugo for it. It has far more chops that you give it credit for.

In case you change your mind, the episode when the weeping angels were introduced was called "Blink" [referencing how fast a weeping angel can move in the blink of an eye] and was written by Stephen Moffat.

One of the reasons your games devolve into the quoting of humor and silliness is that you are probably not giving your players enough of a break between serious stuff. There's an ebb and flow and when things get too tense that's when the humor tends to come out. We used to refer to this as the Cthulhu Comedy Hour. As a DM the best thing to do is let it run a course for 30 minutes to let people let out some steam (and use it as an excuse to bring out some food and drink). Why not sit back be silly with them and THEN let it get back to the serious stuff? You don't have to be continually frustrated by this.

Debby

[P.F.]

There's different kinds of gaze attacks. Some only require you to see the target (this one is more of a gaze defence). Some require the target to see you. And yet others require both simultaneously.

I'm using "gaze attack" in the specific, game-rule sense, as defined in D&D (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#gazeAttacks) or Pathfinder (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/universal-monster-rules#TOC-Gaze-Su-).


Neil Gaiman has written for the show and won a Hugo for it. It has far more chops that you give it credit for.

In case you change your mind, the episode when the weeping angels were introduced was called "Blink" [referencing how fast a weeping angel can move in the blink of an eye] and was written by Stephen Moffat ...

... who by the way also won a Hugo award for this episode. Perhaps you could take a break from your I'm-too-cool-for-that-gasm and even if you don't enjoy it, choke down a few episodes as part of your cultural education? Also FWIW I hate watching sports on TV, but the social events which center around this activity seem to be nearly endless, and I have discovered that a moderate amount of fermented beverage makes the experience much more interesting, even enjoyable.

[Solaris]

the Weeping Angels' special ability is called Quantum Lock. This ability freezes them at a single point in space and time; they are incapable of taking any actions while quantum locked. It is not an at-will ability per se, but is activated instantaneously (i.e., as a free action) any time they are observed. They cannot voluntarily suppress this ability. The effects of this ability should be the same as the effects of Time Stop: while quantum locked they "are invulnerable to your attacks and spells."

Observing a creature is not like a gaze attack, which requires the gazed-upon creature to return eye contact. Indeed, a Weeping Angel is technically immune to all gaze attacks as any opponent attempting to use a gaze attack on them would activate their Quantum Lock ability. Rather, observation could be based on line-of-sight, and the Weeping Angels given a level-appropriate stealth check.

Direct, intentional observation should keep them continuously quantum locked, but a distraction might give them the opportunity to make a stealth check. Perceptive characters will be harder to sneak up on than less perceptive ones, but the weeping Angels will use shadows or concealment to approach their prey whenever possible. Weeping Angels also have the ability to drain light sources; this could be approximated with a darkness supernatural ability.

Weeping angels are described as incredibly fast, so a speed of 60 is not too high. They can apparently fly as well, as evidenced by their appearance on ledges of tall buildings and the fact that they have wings.

Their special attack is called Energy Drain. It requires a touch attack, allows no saving throw, and if successful transports the victim back in time to a point before their birth. Although it does not bestow negative levels (as the name might imply), it will probably still be ineffective against undead, constructs, and anything else which lacks the temporal energy of a natural lifespan for the Weeping Angels to feed on.

As mentioned before, Weeping Angels are hard to integrate into a D&D campaign. Although it may be hyperbole, they are described as "the deadliest, most powerful, most malevolent life-form ever produced." Their high lethality (essentially save-or-die without the save) combined with complete immunity to attacks and spells makes them a very high-level, difficult opponent.

The classic way to defeat them is to trick them into looking at each other, permanently engaging their Quantum Lock until something physically breaks their line of sight to each other. To avoid this, Weeping Angels cover their faces with their hands except when they are attacking. However, D&D has options which exceed the scope of Dr. Who: a wall of force (or of iron or stone) could imprison them indefinitely; a character with a very high touch AC could successfully fight them in pitch darkness; a blindfolded magic-user with tremorsense or blindsight could target a Weeping Angel with a disintegrate or finger of death spell.

Most excellent information, thank you.


Do you intend to purposefully get the details wrong by not being familiar with the source material? And just because you don't approve of gratuitous pandering of a TV show doesn't mean you wouldn't enjoy it. Sounds a lot like cutting your nose to spite your face. it's not everyone's cup of tea (but the show is over 50 years old so there's a lot of material to draw on). It started a children's program with no budget in England. I started watching in the 1970's when PBS aired it in the US. The new Doctor Who is not a reboot but a continuation of the original show (and canon even includes the US movie of Doctor Who). It is a show that has an exceedingly rich background and detail. Granted, it's sometimes hokey but it's also incredibly witty and imaginative at times.

No, I plan on keeping as close to the source material as possible without breaking the D&D game into little bitty pieces. I'm married to one of the aforementioned Doctor Who fanatics, and I can consult with her on key traits.

I get that the show's great for people who like it, but... I'm not really someone who watches television much to begin with, and the premise didn't really appeal to me. Obsessive fans who can't grasp that I don't much care for television and don't really find the show's premise all that interesting or appealing are really more to blame for my dislike of it than the show itself.


Neil Gaiman has written for the show and won a Hugo for it. It has far more chops that you give it credit for.

In case you change your mind, the episode when the weeping angels were introduced was called "Blink" [referencing how fast a weeping angel can move in the blink of an eye] and was written by Stephen Moffat.

Good to know.


One of the reasons your games devolve into the quoting of humor and silliness is that you are probably not giving your players enough of a break between serious stuff. There's an ebb and flow and when things get too tense that's when the humor tends to come out. We used to refer to this as the Cthulhu Comedy Hour. As a DM the best thing to do is let it run a course for 30 minutes to let people let out some steam (and use it as an excuse to bring out some food and drink). Why not sit back be silly with them and THEN let it get back to the serious stuff? You don't have to be continually frustrated by this.

No. If anything, the humor and silliness comes out because I have the exact opposite pacing problem - I'm much better as a combat DM than as a RPing DM, and when one or more of my players decides he's bored because the plot's not focused on him it's not hard to sidetrack the game. I'm far less testy about sidebar like that when it's a fight scene, because it doesn't destroy immersion nearly so much as suddenly deciding to argue about the speed of an unladen cliff swallow or inform someone that their father smells of elderberries in the middle of a conversation with a plot NPC that I spent a good chunk of time developing and practicing.


Perhaps you could take a break from your I'm-too-cool-for-that-gasm and even if you don't enjoy it, choke down a few episodes as part of your cultural education? Also FWIW I hate watching sports on TV, but the social events which center around this activity seem to be nearly endless, and I have discovered that a moderate amount of fermented beverage makes the experience much more interesting, even enjoyable.

No. It's not because I think I'm too cool (and I'm really disappointed that you trundled out this condescending twaddle after your really great post), it's because I'm just plain not interested. I wasn't interested in it when I first heard of it, I wasn't interested when I read some reviews and summaries, I wasn't interested when I checked out some wikis, and I darn sure wasn't interested when the dozenth person expressed shock and dismay that I dare not enjoy something they do and proceeded to take it upon themselves to convince me I should like it because X, Y, and Z.

This is not a thread about trying to get me to watch Doctor Who, nor is it a thread about how I'm a terrible person for not being interested in a goddamned television show. If it were, not only would I have not specifically asked that the subject of convincing me to watch it not be broached, I would have posted it in the Media Discussion forum with a significantly different tone.

This is a thread about me trying to do something nice for the Doctor Who fans in my gaming group. Because my question has been answered, and because fans just can't not demonstrate everything I dislike about overbearing and obnoxious fandoms when given half a chance, I'm going to ask a mod to lock the thread before it begins its inevitable devolution into all the subjects I didn't want the thread to be about.

[P.F.]

No. It's not because I think I'm too cool (and I'm really disappointed that you trundled out this condescending twaddle after your really great post), it's because I'm just plain not interested. I wasn't interested in it when I first heard of it, I wasn't interested when I read some reviews and summaries, I wasn't interested when I checked out some wikis, and I darn sure wasn't interested when the dozenth person expressed shock and dismay that I dare not enjoy something they do and proceeded to take it upon themselves to convince me I should like it because X, Y, and Z.

This is not a thread about trying to get me to watch Doctor Who, nor is it a thread about how I'm a terrible person for not being interested in a goddamned television show. If it were, not only would I have not specifically asked that the subject of convincing me to watch it not be broached, I would have posted it in the Media Discussion forum with a significantly different tone.

The lady doth protest too much, methinks?

[Platymus Pus]

Pretty sure angels are faster than light in speed. Pretty much instant, didn't make much sense in the show, but hey.

[Debihuman]

They only seem to be moving so fast when moving in time. Physical movement (by foot or flying) wasn't that fast.

Debby

[P.F.]

Pretty sure angels are faster than light in speed. Pretty much instant, didn't make much sense in the show, but hey.


They only seem to be moving so fast when moving in time. Physical movement (by foot or flying) wasn't that fast.

Debby

Yeah, sometimes they move at whatever speed the plot requires. Like, one can cross the length of a city block in the blink of an eye, but later they move only a few feet each time the lights fade out for a second.

[Pluto!]

Dr. Who monsters are usually only scary if you stick the the explanations/concept and kind of look away from the things that actually happen in the episode.

I don't think it's worth worrying about exactly how fast they go or exactly what sort of eye contact it takes to see them since I don't really think the show writers stopped to hammer out that sort of detail. Just take the explication and go from there.

[Aquillion]

Generally, you probably can't copy them exactly, but you could copy the idea of a monster that moves when unseen. I would say that, on any given round, you track whether players are keeping an eye on it or not. They can announce whether they're trying to -- if they're not, then they're just not. If they are, then:

* If you target something other than the angel or the angel's location, you have to either do it blind or look away that round. Targeting things that aren't generally in the same direction as the angel can't be done at all. This includes taking attacks of opportunity.
* If you take any action that requires focusing on something other than the angel (reading a scroll -- or anything else), you looked away that round. Some actions, like picking locks, can be accomplished without looking away by taking the penalty for doing them blind.
* If an enemy is attacking you from an angle opposite the angel, you have to face away from them in order to avoid looking away from the angel; this means you're treated as being blind for the purposes of defending against them.
* Because keeping your eyes on the angel requires significant attention, you're always treated as flanked while doing so.
* If anything blocks your line of sight, blinds you, knocks you down, gains control of a grapple against you, knocks you unconscious, incapacitates or kills you, and so on, you lose sight of them. An enemy directly between you and the angel can choose to block your line of sight to them, at least sufficiently for this purpose.
* If a player does something that the DM decides obviously requires looking away from the angel, you looked away that round. Generally, warn players first and give them a chance to cancel their actions (since the character would know that what they're doing requires looking away.)

...hrm, that's a lot of rules. It might be simpler to just say that someone in the group has to take a standard action of "keep my eyes on the angel" each round to keep it in place; while doing so, you're blind to everything else, you can't target or attack anything else, and if you get disrupted somehow then you lose sight of it.

If nobody is keeping an eye on the angel in a given round, assume there's enough gaps in people's attempts to look at it that it can move. (This doesn't mean that it's totally unseen for the entire round; it just means nobody is focusing on it specifically, so at some point in the round, it's free enough to move. That's why eg. an enemy between you and them can block your sight -- you still catch glimpses, but it's not enough.) Because of its great speed and because it's (by definition) moving in a gap in people's sight of it, if it can move, then it's treated as invisible during its action.

Its touch attack should probably be reinterpreted into something completely different -- very lethal, but not ridiculously so; you get a save and just die rather than being thrown into the past.

This would allow for a monster with the look-and-feel of a weeping angel while fitting it into the game.

Oh, also, one other point. If the characters don't know how the angel works, then the DM should feel free to use any distraction whatsoever as a reason to let it move (because the characters aren't trying to look at it.) Players have to announce that they're looking at it before they get the assumption that it's locked in place. Most characters of reasonable intelligence, though, will figure it out within the first few rounds. (Assuming they survive that long.)

My assumption would be that these D&D weeping-angel-alikes are dungeon monsters that make alliances with other inhabitants -- so you might have an angel with a bunch of goblins who work with it, tripping people or attacking them, forcing you to look away in various ways.

[DrKerosene]

PF seems to have covered the Angels in detail, and how they've been "defeated". I would expect the Angels would play somewhat like a hit-squad of NPC Assassins, who are not geniuses. However, their "feel" seems more like it should be classic Frankenstein's monster stalking.

From what I've watched, the Weeping Angels don't seem very intelligent. They do seem like over confident predators, only really fearing a temporal vortex thing. I've never seen them use tools or devices (maybe doorknobs). I think their natural weapons count as Magic and/or Adamantine, for the purpose of getting through materials (doors, walls, etc), but they're not normally destructive either (probably cause they're effectively immortal with the patience to match).

I would consider using the Soul Eater PrC, and maybe tying the number of negative levels the PCs get to how the Angel(s) look, or how strong they get. Starting with the classic "weakened Angel" that looks like a very worn humanoid art piece.

Level Drain could act like an artificial clock from the Player's perspective, if they can cure negative levels. If your Players don't have access to the right magic, you have a very real clock. The Angels would probably mostly only be appearing to get stronger, until you're satisfied the Party came up with a clever enough solution. Also, maybe remind the Players that these things are only killed by being starved WHILE being eroded by time, if they're happy about ditching them in a volcano or something.

Until then, having the PCs auto-lose grapple checks, with the negative levels added on top, will probably establish that melee combat is foolish. Maybe have the rest of the Party assist in prying one PC out of a Statue's grasp (no negative levels when observed) while the newest Light spell already starts to dim.

Anyways, UA has facing rules, that and the illumination range should be the general "safe area" PCs can normally expect. The party will want more than four sets of eyes, if they want to blink both eyes at the same time. I would consider rolling 1d#*5ft for how far a given Angel travels during a "Blink", maybe increasing the Die Size as the Angel drains the PCs.

I'm glad you're avoiding the time-travel ability, it seems like a pain. If you want the Players to have a reason to look somewhere, perhaps there can be visible signals about the environment, or it's hazards. Rolling fog clouds might become a much deadlier terrain feature too. Chokers or Assassin Vines might make things interesting.

[Platymus Pus]

Reflections multiply them however, that includes your eye.

[Milo v3]

..... I just used Gargoyles.

[NapazTrix]

Short and sweet overview:


Have instant movement, like blink, possible flight as well due to what is shown in the show
Have some sort of mind control when being viewed in statue mode (Open my cage deary)
Travel about a distance of a room, say 30-50ft
Are hard stone when not in "monster mode"
Are immortal
Make no sound
Use natural weapons/absorb attack that deal a lot of damage (Flat-foot due to sneak)
Absorb energy (Unclear as to what, told it is radiation energy and potential life force)
Are dangerous when not being observed
Turn to stone when being looked at, even by other Angels.
They go into "sleep mode" when not looked at for a long time, possibly to conserve energy and wake up when viewed again
They don't specifically kill since they need to eat energy, instead of time travel possibly make them knock people out and teleport them outside.
Pretty sure it isn't 100% always Angel Statues.
Absorb/disrupt light from areas


We can assume players will blink at least once per turn, or if they know that's the trick once every other turn.
It is hard to do these in small numbers as if you have at least 2 people per angel they will more then likely not turn into monsters due to sequencing your blinks.
I'd Say 3+ groups, they are most deadly inside due to corners and walls. Have players roll spot/listen to notice things in the area that isn't weeping angels and a possible will save to stop them from turning their gaze to the event (thus making the angels turn to monsters)

If you want inspiration play/watch a game called Containment Breach SCP. (Warning: Horror/Jump Scare game). The first enemy is basically a weeping Angel and it is combined with a load of other enemies in interesting ways and environments.

Area: Have the players go to an old forgotten cave, maybe to find an old love letter of a miner or artefact said to rest there. Give them clues that other people have gone missing for such an item, but offer a big reward. The cave has changed due to heavy rains, so there are holes in the cieling, allowing drops of water, making sounds all over. Spot/Listen when the players move about to give them fake noises to turn around. They see a Weeping Angel and on a failed knowledge check say it seems to represent an old diety, person or is just decoration for luck.
Angels take a few minutes to wake up from their slumber and the hunt is on, start it slow as not to kill the players quickly, have them follow and spot/listen in random places for water or if the Angels knock over something... now they know.
From there it will break down to what the party is going to do.