Sacred fist....

[Masakan]

Just need some clarity, are there any other divine unarmed options or is sacred fist my only option?

[AvatarVecna]

If you're looking for a class that advances both monk features and spellcasting, I think that's the only full one, although there might be some partial ones. If you're looking for more of a mystical, semi-magical monk feel, Tattooed Monk gets some magic ki tattoos, and has a vaguely divine/mystic feel to them.

[Masakan]

If you're looking for a class that advances both monk features and spellcasting, I think that's the only full one, although there might be some partial ones. If you're looking for more of a mystical, semi-magical monk feel, Tattooed Monk gets some magic ki tattoos, and has a vaguely divine/mystic feel to them.

Yeah that's what I thought.

[AvatarVecna]

I'll see if I can find anything else...

[Kelb_Panthera]

Which monk features are you concerned with hanging onto? If you're really tied to the lot; ac bonus, unarmed damage, etc; you are indeed stuck with sacred fist, though it's really not all that bad.

[AvatarVecna]

"Argent Fist" is an Eberron PrC that's more of a Monk/Paladin class. It doesn't advance divine spellcasting, and only advances some monk features...that's about it, other than Sacred Fist. "Tattooed Monk", "Initiate of Pistis Sophia", and "Sword of Righteousness" all have a very divine feel to them, and kind of work with the monk, but...yeah. You seem to be stuck with Sacred Fist.

If I may ask: are you chafing at Sacred Fist because you're wanting to use a weapon, or is it something else?

EDIT:


Which monk features are you concerned with hanging onto? If you're really tied to the lot; ac bonus, unarmed damage, etc; you are indeed stuck with sacred fist, though it's really not all that bad.

Seconding this. Sacred Fist is a pretty powerful PrC. It's a bit worse if your DM say table trumps text, but even then it's still great...unless the weapon thing is a problem.

[Masakan]

"Argent Fist" is an Eberron PrC that's more of a Monk/Paladin class. It doesn't advance divine spellcasting, and only advances some monk features...that's about it, other than Sacred Fist. "Tattooed Monk", "Initiate of Pistis Sophia", and "Sword of Righteousness" all have a very divine feel to them, and kind of work with the monk, but...yeah. You seem to be stuck with Sacred Fist.

If I may ask: are you chafing at Sacred Fist because you're wanting to use a weapon, or is it something else?

EDIT:



Seconding this. Sacred Fist is a pretty powerful PrC. It's a bit worse if your DM say table trumps text, but even then it's still great...unless the weapon thing is a problem.

No it's not that it's just the spellcasting thing is important, Remember when I mentioned the whole thing with crane style and stuff and how pumping wisdom would be important to that? This is sort of to modify or amplify that sort of thing.

Effectively I want a spellcasting unarmed fighter with a focus on stunning fist. And a focus on Buffs and Ice Magic.
I also Want her to be a frontline medic, and have some ToB goodies.
Here's what I have so far, Let me know if there's anything I can do to modify this. Something is off I know it....I just can't place where though.

Feats to get
Practiced Spellcaster:Flaw
Combat Casting
Intuitive Attack
Pain Touch
Improved Natural Attack
Extra Stunning
Freezing the Lifeblood

Domains
Healing
Travel

Domain Trades
Travel Devotion

Trade Flurry of Blows for Decisive Strike

Enchant:
Holy

Light Armor

Race:
Lesser Aasimar


Flaws:
Shaky


Traits:
Suspicious
Plucky

Class Path:
Cleric 1
Monk 2
Cleric 1
Swordsage 1
Cleric 2
Swordsage 1
Sacred Fist 10

Skills
Knowledge(Religion)
Concentration
Spellcraft:only 4
Diplomacy
Heal
Sense Motive
Jump:5
Tumble:5
Balance:5

Items:
Necklace of Natural Weapons/Amulet of Mighty Fists
Healing Belt/Monks Belt
Anklet of Translocation
Fanged Ring
Ki Straps
Nightstick
Reliquary Holy Symbol

Stances
Step of the Wind
Giant Killing Strike


Maneuvers
Counter Charge
Shadow Jaunt
Drain Vitality
Mighty Throw
Baffling Defence
Wolf Fang Strike

Following Levels
Devestating Throw


Cleric Spells
Level 1:
Ice Slick
Shield of Faith=Primary
Divine Favor
Blood Wind

Level 2:
Frost Breath
Owl's Wisdom=Primary
Stabilize
Close Wounds

Level 3:
Corona of Cold=Primary
Shivering Touch
Magic Vestment:Secondary
Ring of Blades

Level 4:
Greater Magic Weapon
Air Walk:Secondary
Divine Power:Primary
Panacea

Level 5:
Divine Agility:Tersiary
Healing Circle:Primary
Righteous Might:Secondary
Boreal Wind

Level 6:
Ice Flowers
Visage of the Deity

Level 7:
Righeous Burst
Radiant Assault

[Kelb_Panthera]

Effectively I want a spellcasting unarmed fighter with a focus on stunning fist. And a focus on Buffs and Ice Magic.
I also Want her to be a frontline medic, and have some ToB goodies.

Sacred fist is overkill if all you're concerned with is unarmed strike being viable. A one level dip in monk and a necklace of natural attacks gets that done and done. Even just IUS and some enchanted gauntlets can get you there unless you're trying to stack size-increases to your damage dice.

That being the case, maybe something in a refluffed ruby knight vindicator could really get you going.

As for stunning, the smiting spell metamagic feat will let you put debuffs into your unarmed strike and spell storing in your gauntlets or NNA will do the same on a level the stunning fist based feats can't really keep up with.

As for combat healing, remember that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Only spend a spell on healing when it's absolutely necessary to keep a rez from becoming necessary. You can make that count for more with the combat medic PrC from heroes of battle and the imbued healing feat, both of which add some nice rider effects to conjuration (healing) spells.

As for what you've got so far, it's not bad. I don't know that I'd bother with practiced spellcaster, maybe swap it for one of your other choices and pick up imbued healimg instead. Maybe swap that first level of cleric for your first level in one of the others for a few extra skill points too. That's just me though.

[Masakan]

Sacred fist is overkill if all you're concerned with is unarmed strike being viable. A one level dip in monk and a necklace of natural attacks gets that done and done. Even just IUS and some enchanted gauntlets can get you there unless you're trying to stack size-increases to your damage dice.

That being the case, maybe something in a refluffed ruby knight vindicator could really get you going.

As for stunning, the smiting spell metamagic feat will let you put debuffs into your unarmed strike and spell storing in your gauntlets or NNA will do the same on a level the stunning fist based feats can't really keep up with.

As for combat healing, remember that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Only spend a spell on healing when it's absolutely necessary to keep a rez from becoming necessary. You can make that count for more with the combat medic PrC from heroes of battle and the imbued healing feat, both of which add some nice rider effects to conjuration (healing) spells.

As for what you've got so far, it's not bad. I don't know that I'd bother with practiced spellcaster, maybe swap it for one of your other choices and pick up imbued healimg instead. Maybe swap that first level of cleric for your first level in one of the others for a few extra skill points too. That's just me though.

Size stacking is somewhat important, I'm not willing to make my character worship wee jas, if anything Ilmater would be a better fit. Smiting Spell is nice. what is NNA? People don't like the idea of being the medic...i embrace it. Theres always that one guy who goes way too far up front and ends up dying, the fact that he knows you can save his ass makes him your new best friend. I'll consider imbued healing, But I would like to know how many caster levels can you lose before it becomes an issue?
Oh and I'm going cloistered cleric, should have been more clear on that.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Size stacking is somewhat important,

It's an option but it's not the only one. You're already doubling your base damage with decisive strike. Power attack can get you to decent damage and smiting spell carrying a damage effect is an obvious option. You're also an initiator so damaging strikes are basically a given. You're plenty covered on damage even without size stacking to the roof.


I'm not willing to make my character worship wee jas, if anything Ilmater would be a better fit.

I'm actually a fan of the stern lady myself but it's not necessary to worship her. The key word in that sentence was "refluffed." The class' mechanics don't describe any particular faith, so ask your DM if he's willing to work with you on making an equivalent class under the faith of your chosen deity or even a faith independent version.


Smiting Spell is nice.

Gishes gotta have it. Finding ways to keep your spells and melee attacks from competing for actions is the name of the game.


what is NNA?

Necklace of Natural Attacks.


People don't like the idea of being the medic...i embrace it. Theres always that one guy who goes way too far up front and ends up dying, the fact that he knows you can save his ass makes him your new best friend. I'll consider imbued healing, But I would like to know how many caster levels can you lose before it becomes an issue?
Oh and I'm going cloistered cleric, should have been more clear on that.

At minutes per level, imbued healing is going to last the whole fight from CL 1. Unless your fights are unbelievably long slogs, the caster level on the spell those effects ride on is basically irrelevant.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to be a medic but healing spells lag -way- behind damage being done at the levels they become available. Vanilla healing is a delaying tactic with a limited shelf life in any given battle. You can certainly extend the party's staying power in a fight but the longer a fight drags on the more of the party's daily resources that fight eats. Far better to destroy the enemy as quickly as possible and patch up afterward if doing so is viable.

If you dedicate a character to healling, HP damage is completely offset by your spellcasting until you're drained but if your character is doing the healing thing as part of a greater whole then you're better off doing it as an on-the-spot, as-necessary kind of thing.

In any case, keep a wand of lesser vigor for after the fight top-ups and encourage the use of healing belts. Having your daily spell allotment as the only healing available is just painting a bullseye on your forehead for any intelligent enemy. Even the grossly inefficient healing potions are better than nothing.

[Masakan]

It's an option but it's not the only one. You're already doubling your base damage with decisive strike. Power attack can get you to decent damage and smiting spell carrying a damage effect is an obvious option. You're also an initiator so damaging strikes are basically a given. You're plenty covered on damage even without size stacking to the roof.



I'm actually a fan of the stern lady myself but it's not necessary to worship her. The key word in that sentence was "refluffed." The class' mechanics don't describe any particular faith, so ask your DM if he's willing to work with you on making an equivalent class under the faith of your chosen deity or even a faith independent version.



Gishes gotta have it. Finding ways to keep your spells and melee attacks from competing for actions is the name of the game.



Necklace of Natural Attacks.



At minutes per level, imbued healing is going to last the whole fight from CL 1. Unless your fights are unbelievably long slogs, the caster level on the spell those effects ride on is basically irrelevant.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to be a medic but healing spells lag -way- behind damage being done at the levels they become available. Vanilla healing is a delaying tactic with a limited shelf life in any given battle. You can certainly extend the party's staying power in a fight but the longer a fight drags on the more of the party's daily resources that fight eats. Far better to destroy the enemy as quickly as possible and patch up afterward if doing so is viable.

If you dedicate a character to healling, HP damage is completely offset by your spellcasting until you're drained but if your character is doing the healing thing as part of a greater whole then you're better off doing it as an on-the-spot, as-necessary kind of thing.

In any case, keep a wand of lesser vigor for after the fight top-ups and encourage the use of healing belts. Having your daily spell allotment as the only healing available is just painting a bullseye on your forehead for any intelligent enemy. Even the grossly inefficient healing potions are better than nothing.

You make a very compelling Point...also I just pieced together what smiting smiting spell is....Are you basically getting Duskblades arcane channeling as a feat?! If so then that makes duskblade almost completely unneeded.

[AvatarVecna]

that makes duskblade almost completely unneeded.

I can never remember whether duskblade is the one that's totally terrible, or just mostly terrible (I always mix it up with hexblade). Regardless, they're both pretty bad anyway.

[Kelb_Panthera]

You make a very compelling Point...also I just pieced together what smiting smiting spell is....Are you basically getting Duskblades arcane channeling as a feat?! If so then that makes duskblade almost completely unneeded.

Smiting spell is almost strictly inferior to basic arcane channeling and is outright inferior to a 13th or higher level duskblade's arcane channeling.

Arcane channeling is melee only but it can be delivered in the same standard action that it's charged with. At 13 plus the spell is applied to every attack in a full attack and can, therefore, be applied to every foe in reach and, arguably, multiple times to the same target depending on the nature of the spell.

Smiting spell causes the spell to take a slot one level higher than normal and casting the spell and delivering it are two separate actions. It can, however, be applied to a piece of ammunition and used at range.

[Masakan]

Smiting spell is almost strictly inferior to basic arcane channeling and is outright inferior to a 13th or higher level duskblade's arcane channeling.

Arcane channeling is melee only but it can be delivered in the same standard action that it's charged with. At 13 plus the spell is applied to every attack in a full attack and can, therefore, be applied to every foe in reach and, arguably, multiple times to the same target depending on the nature of the spell.

Smiting spell causes the spell to take a slot one level higher than normal and casting the spell and delivering it are two separate actions. It can, however, be applied to a piece of ammunition and used at range.

Regardless knowing that I can use a Decisive strike/Shivering touch makes it a very compelling combo indeed.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Fun trick; if you have time for a buff up before an encounter, you can slap a couple touch range buffs or healing spells into some merciful shuriken and patch up your buddies with a ninja star in the back. The smiting spell lingers for a minute in the weapon after casting so you can get 3 or 4 ready and still have plenty of time for a fight.

[Masakan]

Fun trick; if you have time for a buff up before an encounter, you can slap a couple touch range buffs or healing spells into some merciful shuriken and patch up your buddies with a ninja star in the back. The smiting spell lingers for a minute in the weapon after casting so you can get 3 or 4 ready and still have plenty of time for a fight.

OOO! That's not a bad idea

[Kelb_Panthera]

OOO! That's not a bad idea

Yup, works for handing out nasty damage effects to your allies to throw at the enemy too. Just remember to turn off the merciful property before throwing.

[AvatarVecna]

And that's all without getting into the ridiculous RAW abuse that comes with enchanting shuriken and using them as melee weapons.

[Curmudgeon]

Just need some clarity, are there any other divine unarmed options or is sacred fist my only option?
Dragon # 314 has a couple of prestige classes which fit the bill. There's Master of the North Wind (pages 34-35) to advance Monk and Druid class features, and Master of the West Wind (pages 37-38) to advance Monk and Cleric class features.

[Greenish]

I'm not willing to make my character worship wee jas, if anything Ilmater would be a better fit.Guess who else doesn't want to worship Wee Jas?

The sample Ruby Knight Vindicator in the book. :smallamused:

[Masakan]

Guess who else doesn't want to worship Wee Jas?

The sample Ruby Knight Vindicator in the book. :smallamused:

Oh ok I see it...man I never knew they gave such free reign on how to get in this thing.

[Psyren]

Totemist/Ur-Priest/Sapphire Hierarch is another divine unarmed build. (Hey, you never said it had to be unarmed strike!)

[Masakan]

Totemist/Ur-Priest/Sapphire Hierarch is another divine unarmed build. (Hey, you never said it had to be unarmed strike!)

And yet you were completely aware of what I meant.....

[Psyren]

And yet you were completely aware of what I meant.....

Even so, you may not have considered that bites/claws/slams/etc. have most of the same benefits of unarmed combat (e.g. inability to be sundered or removed from your person). Even if it's not useful to you, it might prove helpful to someone else reading this thread, so I thought I'd bring it up.

[Masakan]

Even so, you may not have considered that bites/claws/slams/etc. have most of the same benefits of unarmed combat (e.g. inability to be sundered or removed from your person). Even if it's not useful to you, it might prove helpful to someone else reading this thread, so I thought I'd bring it up.

Fair enough,

[Kelb_Panthera]

Oh ok I see it...man I never knew they gave such free reign on how to get in this thing.

I wouldn't take the example characters in any PrC entry too seriously. They're riddled with errors throughout most supplements; from failure to qualify to not enough skill points to miscalculated caster levels. You'd think the people that design the game could get this stuff right but apparently not.

[Pluto!]

Let's go back a bit to the Smiting Spell/Duskblade Arcane Channeling topic.

Fun Rules Fact: By default, Unarmed Strikes and natural weapons work with Touch spells exactly the same way the Duskblade's Level 3 Arcane Channeling does with any other melee weapon, no additional feats/levels/etc. needed.

See the "Touch Spells" entry of the Rules Compendium for details.