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Pirate_King
2007-05-22, 11:05 AM
How would a wizard set up some sort of base on the Moon? what level would he have to be and what sorts of spells could one use for construction and space travel? I'm imagining a lot of constructs, bigby hands, and wall of force spells, but what else could be used?

the_tick_rules
2007-05-22, 11:18 AM
i don't think you could.

Closet_Skeleton
2007-05-22, 11:28 AM
Just cast Genesis.

It's easier.

Otherwise;

You'd need a spell to let you live without breathing. Or maybe 100 odd of that Ioun Stone.

Teleporting onto the Moon is the safest bet. If you don't have the range then you could fly really high up first.

Wall of Stone is the best way to build a base really quickly.

Before you go make sure you'll be able to build a portal between the planet and the moon.

Then use the portal to transport air into your new base.

NotCC
2007-05-22, 11:43 AM
Hire a Dwarven Cleric with the Earth Domain. Get him to the moon and have him cast Elemental Swarm to summon a ton of Earth Elementals to move stone/earth while he follows up with wall of Stone. In just a few rounds your base is constructed. ( I did this in a game once when I was the Dwarven Dirt Cleric, I constructed a massive subterranian base in just a day.)

As for air...well you might have to go find some 2nd ed Starjammer books for ways to keep air in space. Or form a permanent dome of force around your base and open a permanent gate to the elemental plane of air inside it.

Indon
2007-05-22, 11:48 AM
You're very likely going to need a decanter of endless air (I got nothing for book citation, sorry). It generates air, uh, endlessly, when the stopper is removed.

Jasdoif
2007-05-22, 11:49 AM
A necklace of adaption (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#necklaceofAdaptation) specifically says it allows you to breath in a vacuum. That's the easy part.

hewhosaysfish
2007-05-22, 12:00 PM
22 Steps - 13th to 17th level (depending on which options you choose).

1) Necklace of adaptation to let him breathe up there.
2) Greater Teleport (or possibly some sort of divination followed by a regular Teleport) to get him there.
3)Wall of Stone repeatedly to put a dome over a crater.
3a) Alternatively, for the stealth base, Disintegrate a hole in the ground, sit in it, Wall of Stone. Expand slowly with further Disintegrates. Can also work with Transmute Rock to Mud, Move Earth and Dispel Magic.
4) Install Bottle of Air.
5) Use Summon Monster IV to summon a Lantern Archon and dot the inside of the dome with Continual Flames.
6) If allowed, craft an item of x/day Permanency.
7) Put a Permanent Wall of Fire in an out-of-the-way corner to provide some heat.
8) Cover the inside of the dome with a Permanent Mordekainen's Private Sanctum, or multiple overlapping MPSs if necessary.
9) Reinforce the stone work with Permanent Walls of Force. Unfortunately Wall of Force won't do floors or ceilings. Either research (and homebrew) an new spell or try to convince the GM that Sculpt Spell should do it. Arguments based on Einstein's Theory of Relativity may also work, depending on the GM.
Leave one gap in your Walls (See points 10 & 13).
9-1/2) Optionally demolish some stonework now for some nice views. Not advised for a stealthy base; just leave large alcoves which you can cast Hallucinatory Terrain in, to simulate rolling countryside beyond.
10) Embed a Wall of Iron in the stone walls above the gap.
11) Cover the dome in Permanent Symbol spells, set to go off when some one uncovers them, or on various triggers related to breaching the dome.
12) Cover the Symbols with another layer of Stone, for safety.
13) Put a Permanent Phase Door through the gap. Add Leomund's Phantom Trap for the hell of it.
14) Use Disintegrate to tunnel a deep pit below your dome.
15) Get a friendly (or bribable) cleric to cover the inside of the dome with Forbiddance. Be sure to have the material components on hand.
16) Optionally, create Permanent Teleportation Circle's between the outside of your base and somewhere planetside you like.
17) Put a Permanent Prismatic Sphere at the bottom of the pit. If 9th level is too high, try an item the casts Disintegrate 1/day.
18) Add internal walls, stairs, etc. Add more lighting as necessary. Include a large water tank near the top.
19) Unless you have ranks in Craft(Plumbing) pay - or possibly Charm- someone to come in to do that for you. Water comes from the tank and goes to the pit. Include overflows.
20) Optionally, use Permanent Prismatic Walls to box in an area you don't want guests and/or servants to wander into, like a private study or a shrine to your favourite country and western singer.
21) Install a Decanter of Endless Water in the water tank and a Cabinet of Heroes Feasting in the dining room.
22) Decorate and furnish to suit your whim. Illusory Wall makes a novel replacement for doors and screens.

the_tick_rules
2007-05-22, 12:06 PM
yeah but space is negative some odd hundred degrees, you'd freeze unless you were protected. plus the moon is hundreds of thousands of miles away, i think that's outta range of teleport.

Human Paragon 3
2007-05-22, 12:19 PM
yeah but space is negative some odd hundred degrees, you'd freeze unless you were protected. plus the moon is hundreds of thousands of miles away, i think that's outta range of teleport.

Greater teleport has no range.

Throw in an item enchanted with endure cold until you get your permanant wall of fire set up.

Closet_Skeleton
2007-05-22, 12:26 PM
yeah but space is negative some odd hundred degrees, you'd freeze unless you were protected. plus the moon is hundreds of thousands of miles away, i think that's outta range of teleport.

Uhm... magic?

Come on, elemental resistance spells are some of the lowest level ones.

PinkysBrain
2007-05-22, 12:29 PM
I don't know of any divination spell which is really a sure thing to get a detailed description of a location on the moon necessary for greater teleport. In epic getting to the moon is easy though, just have someone with distant shot throw you there.

Closet_Skeleton
2007-05-22, 12:33 PM
I don't know of any divination spell which is really a sure thing to get a detailed description of a location on the moon necessary for greater teleport. In epic getting to the moon is easy though, just have someone with distant shot throw you there.

Just get a telescope. Even if they don't have the glass-making technology to make a decent enough lens you can create one with Greater Creation.

PinkysBrain
2007-05-22, 12:37 PM
The skill check DC necessary to get a good enough lens is up to the DM. Also if you wanted to get down to a resolution of a meter or so it would have to be pretty damn huge. Getting the resolution necessary to say recognize the moon lander on the surface of the moon isn't something you can do with any old telescope either.

Human Paragon 3
2007-05-22, 12:41 PM
Legend Lore or Vision could get you a detailed enough description of the location on the moon if need be.

Also... if you can actually see a location, I think that's a good enough description to utilize a greater teleport, and anyone can see the moon just by looking up.

PinkysBrain
2007-05-22, 12:47 PM
Legend lore does not give you pictures, there needs to be something legendary about a location to get information about it ... because legends is what you get.

A moon sized chunk of rock is a valid but rather broad interpretation of the term "place". It's not one I would use in this context.

Emperor Tippy
2007-05-22, 12:50 PM
Getting to the moon is easy.

Wait for a full moon and then just look up. If you can see it you can port to it with greater teleport.

And even if it takes a few ports to zero in on the exact spot on the moon you want, it's not that hard.

And as was said above, its fairly easy to make the base.

Closet_Skeleton
2007-05-22, 12:51 PM
You could teleport onto the moon rather easily. Choosing where on the moon would be harder but just getting up there is quite easy. Once your there you can walk to the right place for your base and then you'll be familiar enough with it to teleport whenever you want. Or you can just set up a portal.

PinkysBrain
2007-05-22, 01:02 PM
Wait for a full moon and then just look up. If you can see it you can port to it with greater teleport.
Why stick to traveling to the moon? Just greater teleport somewhere close to another star, be careful that you select a spot far enough removed not to get burned, repeat till you are in planetary orbit. Finding planets would take a long long time, but a warforged wizard has all the time in the world.

the_tick_rules
2007-05-22, 01:13 PM
well with so much effort needed to get there, create and maintain a base there, survive there, travel to and from and everything else necessary it'd be so much easier to go somewhere else, but i suppose with enough invested in it you could do it.

Telonius
2007-05-22, 01:15 PM
What's with all of this technical stuff? The moon is a Wizard's natural habitat. It's made of cheese.

Emperor Tippy
2007-05-22, 01:27 PM
Why stick to traveling to the moon? Just greater teleport somewhere close to another star, be careful that you select a spot far enough removed not to get burned, repeat till you are in planetary orbit. Finding planets would take a long long time, but a warforged wizard has all the time in the world.

See my next game on these boards. Recruitment opens June 1st.

I made an entire setting that I am play testing and the main empire is made up of over 100,000 worlds. Travel is done like that. Greater teleport Warp engines. It takes time to zero in but it is incredibly fast.

Piccamo
2007-05-22, 02:18 PM
See my next game on these boards. Recruitment opens June 1st.

I made an entire setting that I am play testing and the main empire is made up of over 100,000 worlds. Travel is done like that. Greater teleport Warp engines. It takes time to zero in but it is incredibly fast.

Is it a modified Spelljammers or something?

Green Bean
2007-05-22, 02:21 PM
For added security, make a wall out of permanent Phase Doors which trigger for anyone but you, then enchant them to look like an extra room in the lair. Fighter walks through; ejected into space! :smallbiggrin:

Emperor Tippy
2007-05-22, 02:25 PM
I've never read spell jammer.

So no.

It is me taking a bunch of different things from a bunch of different Sci-Fi and fantasy books, movies, video games and RPGs for inspiration. Some things (and a few names) are just lifted straight from books because it solved story balance issues quite nicely.

I took the D&D rules for magic and applied them in a logical manner to a real society.

The empires government is largely based on that of the Tsurani from Raymond E. Feist's books. The millitary has a lot of stuff grabbed from Sci-Fi.

I used Star Wars as the basis for what an empire made up of trillions of people and hundreds of thousands of solar systems would look like.

Piccamo
2007-05-22, 02:27 PM
I've never read spell jammer.

So no.

It is me taking a bunch of different things from a bunch of different Sci-Fi and fantasy books, movies, video games and RPGs for inspiration. Some things (and a few names) are just lifted straight from books because it solved story balance issues quite nicely.

I took the D&D rules for magic and applied them in a logical manner to a real society.

The empires government is largely based on that of the Tsurani from Raymond E. Feist's books. The millitary has a lot of stuff grabbed from Sci-Fi.

I used Star Wars as the basis for what an empire made up of trillions of people and hundreds of thousands of solar systems would look like.

Your ideas intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter. Where can I read more about it?

Emperor Tippy
2007-05-22, 02:34 PM
I haven't posted the recruitment thread yet. It will go up June first and we will start July first in all likelihood. The only one guaranteed a place in the game is Jack Mann and he is playing the party wizard. I'm allowing a cleric as well but that will be the extent of the full casters in the party. ToB is allowed. And so are some of the half caster's are stuff like the warlock.

I have about 2 dozen worlds fully done up, the entire social structure of the empire, 1 other empire, and a rebellion done. I also knwo generally how the story is going to go.

clarkcd
2007-05-22, 03:00 PM
Depends on if the moon IG is like the moon IRL or if it has an atmosphere/plant/animal life like Endor or something.

Teaching ewoks to cast fireball would be fun.

Pirate_King
2007-05-22, 07:22 PM
Thanks a lot, guys! convincing the DM of anything shouldn't be a problem, its me. I was just trying to figure out a way to make a feasable moon base for my players' enemy. this is all very helpful!

asqwasqw
2007-05-22, 07:27 PM
Can't you just use wish to allow you to survive in vacuum?

ClericofPhwarrr
2007-05-22, 07:28 PM
What's with all of this technical stuff? The moon is a Wizard's natural habitat. It's made of cheese.

It's true.

LongVin
2007-05-22, 07:33 PM
I would also suggest while you are at it to create an animatronic display of whalers singing "We're whalers on the moon, we carry harpoons..."

JadedDM
2007-05-22, 08:43 PM
Is the moon in question like our moon (no atmosphere, water, life, and little gravity?) Some moons are just like little planets, so depending on what the conditions of the moon are like would greatly influence what needed to be done to survive there.

Pirate_King
2007-05-22, 08:48 PM
I'm making it like our moon, and I'll probably take the stealth base option. it's still a forgotten realms kind of world, so this will be interesting.

the_tick_rules
2007-05-22, 10:48 PM
fortunately D&D is lacking on the physcis of space so you'll probably have an easier time of workin it out.

Yechezkiel
2007-05-22, 10:59 PM
How would a wizard set up some sort of base on the Moon? what level would he have to be and what sorts of spells could one use for construction and space travel? I'm imagining a lot of constructs, bigby hands, and wall of force spells, but what else could be used?

The Gorgotron will destroy all your craps... on the moon. How can anyone defeat it?

technomancer
2007-05-23, 12:38 AM
I don't see why you would need a 'stealth' option on the moon. As long as you don't put off a huge amount of light, a billboard on the moon might as well be invisible. It's not like there are locals you have to worry about.

Rasumichin
2007-05-23, 01:35 AM
It's not like there are locals you have to worry about.

This might be different in the campaign setting...even though Pirate_Kings last statement does not suggest it.

Closet_Skeleton
2007-05-23, 05:52 AM
Or it could have rock snakes like in that Thunderbirds movie.

Wait, that was mars, I got confused because it wasn't red in the film.

Or they could have mysterons.

If it's that easy to make a moon base then maybe it has been done before and the moon is littered with ruins of moon bases made by mad wizards and full of immortal contructs and magical treasures.

Wait... that wouldn't matter unless this was some kind of adventure game.

Ethdred
2007-05-23, 06:55 AM
What's with all of this technical stuff? The moon is a Wizard's natural habitat. It's made of cheese.

Love it :)

One thing that's just occured. There are plenty of ways in D&D to breath in a vauum, but none seem to deal with the other problems, like all the liquid in your body boiling.

Arbitrarity
2007-05-23, 07:23 AM
That's the 1d4 damage. Use some sort of fast healing, be a warforged, or just use shapechange and become a golem for (cough) "immunity".

Actually, the golem would slowly sublimate, but you can change forms and fix that.

bosssmiley
2007-05-23, 03:33 PM
What's with all of this technical stuff? The moon is a Wizard's natural habitat. It's made of cheese.

Hah! :smallbiggrin:

Who says the game world moon is *anything* like ours anyway. What? Did you guys never play in the cosmological lunacy that was Spelljammer?

1. Go paizo.com.
2. Download Spelljammer pdfs.
3. ???
3. Profit and lulz at wizard who didn't do his research. :smallwink:

That's even before you add in the mythological potentials of the moon:

"You know, Selene is gonna be pretty torqued you turned up at her celestial palace and started wrecking her careful 'manicured wildness' landscaping."
"Great! So now you've broken the bonds on the skyborne prison of the Burning God."

martyboy74
2007-05-23, 03:58 PM
Another thing to do for the vacuum problem: Surround yourself in a Wall of Stone, then use Prestidigitation to color the wall 'invisible'.


"Great! So now you've broken the bonds on the skyborne prison of the Burning God."

Is that anything like the Burning Man?

Fizban
2007-05-23, 07:45 PM
I believe the reason your blood would boil is the vacuum, correct? Necklace of adaptation specifically surrounds you in your own shell of air, vacuum is irrelevant. Suggested cold damage has been placed at 2d6/round, easily blockable with a ring of resistance to energy.

I can't get to my copy at the moment, but the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook allows one to build walls of force as a wondrous item into whatever wall/floor/ceiling you want. The price was either 4,000 or 40,000 per 10 foot square, so you might want to look it up yourself.

PinkysBrain
2007-05-23, 07:49 PM
1 Bar isn't an awful lot of pressure, simple wall of stone is plenty strong.

Felius
2007-05-23, 08:37 PM
I believe the reason your blood would boil is the vacuum, correct? Necklace of adaptation specifically surrounds you in your own shell of air, vacuum is irrelevant. Suggested cold damage has been placed at 2d6/round, easily blockable with a ring of resistance to energy.

I can't get to my copy at the moment, but the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook allows one to build walls of force as a wondrous item into whatever wall/floor/ceiling you want. The price was either 4,000 or 40,000 per 10 foot square, so you might want to look it up yourself.

Let kill a couple catgirls here:
First: Actually, there is no "temperature" in a vacuum by definition. It is a physical propriety of matter. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperature#Zeroth-law_definition_of_temperature
There is also a part for temperature on vacuum a little below

Second: There are three ways (Main ways or only ways, I don't remember right now) to transmit heat: "Conduction, Convection and Radiation" Both Conduction and Convection need matter, and become a non-issue on the vacuum of space. Radiation is more of an Issue for the oposite side. As you are a bad radiator of energy, you don't cold up very well on space. So if you are constantly exposed to the sun, you run over the risk of over heating. It IS a pretty long term risk, as the energy you're absorbing isn't that much also. But it can be easily solved with a decanter of endless water. Just bath yourself with cold water whenever you start overheating and you'll be fine.
More on heat transmission here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_Transfer

Arbitrarity
2007-05-23, 08:55 PM
:smallbiggrin: Except, due to a lack of pressure, the water instantly sublimates

Jack_Simth
2007-05-23, 09:01 PM
Actuall, NASA tested the effects of vacuum exposure, both accidentally on humans and deliberately on animals. The 1 atmosphere difference pales in comparison to your natural interal body pressure vs. the outside world. What kills about vacuum is the lack of oxygen. Cold and Heat are only issues long term or in direct sunlight. Perfectly avoidable.

Well, assuming you can ignore recourse costs (it's for the BBEG - individual sections have their own CR, and thus don't affect the BBEG's wealth), the mechanics are simple enough - pure Core, even.

You will need:
Iridescant Spindle Ioun Stone (so you don't have to worry about slot issues for certain later steps)
Shapechange (Polymorph will also work)
Silent Darkness
Silent and Stilled Disintegrate
Overland Flight (Greater Teleport can conceivably replace this)
Magnificent Mansion (prefferably Stilled, with a Metamagic rod of Silent spell; Rope Trick will also do the job)
A Ring of Frost Resistance (probably not needed, but check with your DM)
Blindfold (nice and sturdy - to protect your actual eyes)
Robe of Eyes (to see)
Cubic Gate (one side attuned to the Elemental Plane of Air)
Other spells for later

Process: Get too moon. Overland Flight with ring on. Cast Darkness to protect yourself from the sun. When something gets close to running out, Magnificient Mansion (or Rope Trick) and rest up.

Once you FINALLY get there, Shapechange into an earth elemental. Glide deep down into the moon, cast your Silent/Stilled Disintegrate. You now have a seed hole, and haven't disturbed the surface in the slightest. No amount of observation will find the traces of your entry, as there aren't any.

Once you've got your seed hole, Shapechange into a Beholder (for the free Disintigrates by beam) and carve out whatever you like (knoweledge(Engeneering) is probably a good idea here).

After you've got your basic layout, permanencied Mage's Private Sanctum all around. Greater Planar Bind a Planetar to spam Forbiddance. Lesser Planar Binding for a Lantern Archon to light the place with Continual Flame.

Get an area big enough for a Prismatic Sphere to form entirely. Cast it, and Permanency it. This is the only segent of your fortress that isn't Forbiddanced. There's nothing to stand on (except, perhaps, a Flying Carpet orderd to just fly there forever - if you need a solid surface to Teleport onto for whatever reason). Anyone getting in needs to either go through a lot of rock, or go through your Prismatic Sphere. This also makes a handy garbage disposal, as any nonmagical unattended object is simply destroyed going through by the violet layer.

Permanency various Symbols. And have them set to go off constantly - you made them, you're immune, so it doesn't matter. They might go quiet for ten minutes every now and again, but you make several in any given area and time them so that no more than one in your caster level of them is off at any given time (if you feel the need to occasionally entertain guests, include a "don't start" critera that involves a clearly displayed "sign" - it doesn't turn them off, but it prevents them from activating - the "sign" has to be there for 10 minutes per caster level before they're all off - and the "sign" can be just about anything - a statue of you, perhaps, with an Axiomatic Longsword in one hand and an Anarchic Club in the other, with a Holy bow on it's back and a quiver full of 50 Unholy arrows; Symbols can test Alignment and visual stuff, so this works). Someone manages to get in past your normal defenses (Wish's Transport Traveler's safe section includes the phrase "regardless of local conditions", and thus can potentially ignore the Forbiddance) they are dropped into active Symbols - and make several saves or lose. Air? Well, get a Cubic Gate attuned to the Elemental Plane of Air. Shouldn't take too long to fill the place up; repeat every now and again as necessary (or if necessary - if you're a lich, you don't need the air yourself, and the lack of air is an extra hurdle for anyone wanting to raid your fortress).

But yeah - Genesis is easier, if you're okay with non-core stuff.

bosssmiley
2007-05-26, 05:46 AM
Is that anything like the Burning Man?

More DvR. Fewer hippies. More blood-maddened cultists and torture of the known laws reality. Tis teh roxxorz.

ray53208
2007-05-26, 07:31 PM
can we call it moonbase ice cream ninja?

Tor the Fallen
2007-05-27, 02:10 AM
Things to look out for:
Javelin wielding moon beasts.
Giant cats from the dark side of the moon.

Things that might help you:
The cats of Ulthar
Friendly ghouls

Fun in vacuums:
Open a Gate to the elemental plane of water using a Cubic Gate or Well of Many Worlds. These open up and stay open permanently.
Congratulations, you now have an endless and expanding hurricane that is full of pissed off elementals and sharks.

Nature abhors a vacuum. Don't bring any druids.

Solo
2007-05-27, 02:30 AM
Do not drink with strange, turban wearing men who come in black ships and sell rubes.

bosssmiley
2007-05-27, 10:18 AM
Congratulations, you now have an endless and expanding hurricane that is full of pissed off elementals and sharks.

Greatest! spatial anomaly! EVAR! :smallbiggrin:

Attilargh
2007-05-27, 10:28 AM
Hey, would opening a Gate to the elemental plane of fire put out the flames as all the oxygen is sucked out?

thehothead
2007-05-27, 04:34 PM
Why stop at making a moon base? why not TERRAFORM the damn thing?

1. Craft some sort of spell to increase the gravitational pull of an object (large enough to affect the moon.)
2. Cast on moon.
3. cast permancy.
4. Open portal to elemental plane of air. (You now have an atmosphere)
5. Temperarily open a portal to the elemental plane of water.
6. steal a bunch of fertile soil from some place, and dump it all over the moon.

bosssmiley
2007-05-28, 05:34 PM
Hey, would opening a Gate to the elemental plane of fire put out the flames as all the oxygen is sucked out?

The Plane of Fire burns because its entire reason for being is to burn, it is the archetype of things burning upon which all other combustion in the multiverse draws for its form. The plane burns because it is the essence of flame made manifest, not because it has oxygen.

Put another way: "Can x Platonic ideal be affected by y non-ideal?"

Catgirl-killing Clueless. :smallwink:

Attilargh
2007-05-29, 01:59 AM
Good catch. I didn't really pay attention on my philosophy courses.

Also, sig'd.