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Scrapheap
2015-10-12, 03:55 AM
My party has recently hit Epic level in our 3.5 game, the only problem is that the wizard sees no reason to continue taking any spellcasting classes.
I partially agree with him as there really isnt any benefit from advancing wizard (or most prestige classes) into the epic ranges as his spells per day are pretty much capped once he hits 20.
I know there is the expanded capacity feat, but it seems pretty like a pretty poor trade off for one level of spells when the other option is Epic Spellcasting feat.
Is there any major solution to this that we could implement, something that actually makes taking more wizard levels worthwhile?

Kraken
2015-10-12, 04:18 AM
If prestige classes are out of the question, then you could keep it simple and make the bonus feat progression for epic wizards better. You can do a lot with improved spell capacity, automatic quicken, multispell, and so forth, so more epic feats is a pretty big power boost. Just don't overlook that they get familiar spell for free at level 21, which is pretty darned good. Alternatively, if you want to make it feel like they continue gaining spells, you could just give them improved spell capacity for free at every odd level, so that other than at level 19, they basically get a new spell level every odd character level throughout their career.

Edit: as an aside, if the rest of your party will be taking a class into 21st level and beyond, I would suggest looking at rebalancing the lot of them in general. For instance, is it really fair for monks to get their first epic bonus feat at 25th level, but druids get their first at level 24, and rangers at level 23?

Scrapheap
2015-10-12, 04:28 AM
He is already taking prestiges up to 20, primarily for the class features.
I dont think he will get the Familiar Spell feat as he wont be 21st level in the class though.
I think he was taking something like wizard 5/urpriest 2?/mystic theurge 8?/other stuff to wizard equivalent to 20.
We will be 25th level and I dont have his full character notes right now.
Edit: We are in a three man party, the wizard, myself (warforged wildshape ranger/master of many forms), and our third is a halfling rogue.
Aside from the rogue we have been taking prestige classes, so bonus feats from the classes dont really factor in yet.

Rubik
2015-10-12, 04:36 AM
Caster level is important for epic spellcasters to overcome SR. If he has ways of bypassing that, however, then he's better off either starting up a new casting class, advancing it with a PrC, and finding ways to combine his spellcasting, such as sacrificing lower level divine spells to fuel arcane metamagic, and using Divine Power to grant full BAB, even into epic (which has no level cap and stacks fully with epic attack bonus).

Melcar
2015-10-12, 06:18 AM
Caster level is important for epic spellcasters to overcome SR. If he has ways of bypassing that, however, then he's better off either starting up a new casting class, advancing it with a PrC, and finding ways to combine his spellcasting, such as sacrificing lower level divine spells to fuel arcane metamagic, and using Divine Power to grant full BAB, even into epic (which has no level cap and stacks fully with epic attack bonus).

Higher casterlevel is so important. Not only does it improve spell penetration, spell duration, spell range, spell damage, and how difficult they are to dispel. I would say that what ever you do, try and increase the caster level all the time!

sleepyphoenixx
2015-10-12, 06:41 AM
There's no reason not to take more caster PrCs.
Aside from the obvious benefits of higher CL and more class features it's also a lot more viable now to take prestige classes that don't grant full casting progression, since you can keep up your CL with Practiced Spellcaster or other CL-increasing methods and don't lose any progression.

One of the biggest examples would be Hierophant, which has good class features and increases CL but doesn't increase casting progression. That makes it a suboptimal choice pre-epic, where casting progression is everything, but it's better than taking normal cleric levels at epic when CL is all you need.

For an arcane example you could take a look at Master Transmogrifist. Getting the (Ex) abilities of forms you take is pretty strong and combining them is even better, but few people take it because it only has half progression.

Segev
2015-10-12, 09:10 AM
Once you hit Epic, this stops even being stupidly game-breaking, so get Epic Spellcasting and research a spell that transforms you 100% racially into a Beholder, and then take Beholder Mage. You'll still have your normal spellcasting, and will swiftly advance the superior Beholder Mage spellcasting.

atemu1234
2015-10-12, 09:44 AM
Take at least one more level, because Epic Spellcasting requires CL 21, IIRC.

Psyren
2015-10-12, 09:46 AM
I know there is the expanded capacity feat, but it seems pretty like a pretty poor trade off for one level of spells when the other option is Epic Spellcasting feat.
Is there any major solution to this that we could implement, something that actually makes taking more wizard levels worthwhile?

Just have him take prestige classes, there are tons of fun ones out there. He'll get the only benefit from more wizard levels (higher CL) but he'll also have fun class features to play with. Geometer is a good example, he can record any spell in the game on a single page of his book.

And Improved Spell Capacity is fine, you can use those slots to prepare metamagic spells after all. Nothing like Quickened Wish to save your bacon.

atemu1234
2015-10-12, 09:50 AM
Just have him take prestige classes, there are tons of fun ones out there. He'll get the only benefit from more wizard levels (higher CL) but he'll also have fun class features to play with. Geometer is a good example, he can record any spell in the game on a single page of his book.

And Improved Spell Capacity is fine, you can use those slots to prepare metamagic spells after all. Nothing like Quickened Wish to save your bacon.

Another decent investment is in PrCs with half or less casting, because those still work. Heck, using Practiced Spellcaster to overcome CL discrepancies is fun.