The Depression Thread

[eidreff]

@Bor

Heh, know how that is. I play in the woods a lot and in ponds and generally mucky places. This means that any cuts (however tiny) need disinfecting. I nearly lost an arm earlier this year due to lymphangitis (like blood poisoning but in the lymph system). I know it won't help, but don't do it again.

There the paternal bit in me is done.

Seriously though, take care and do not leave unless you really feel you have to. I don't contribute much here, but i've seen a helluva lot of good advice from you that other people can benefit from. I'd miss your posting and I think everyone else would too.

@Ego

Have you cahnged anything recently? Diet, execise regime, even water supply!

Coffee cold be a culprit especially if you have become sensetized to it over time (i have a friend who used to keep bees who became so senzetised that another sting could kill him!) More so if yo don't eat. Don't quote me but I think that there is a natural body reaction to the initial stages of under nourishment that can lead to heightened "alertness" paranoia, reaction time changes and slightly irrational behaviour. I'm no doctor but regular balanced food, lots of water and sleep always do me good. Have you been dieting? This can cause some strange things to happen to people from what i've seen.

[potatocubed]

And one other thing: there is always time to figure out what you want to do with your life, even twenty years beyond the end of your education.

QFT. The man knows of what he speaks.

Life isn't so much a path as it's a series of islands a la Super Mario Brothers. You hop from one to another, trying to get to a goal - a magic mushroom, an extra life, whatever - that you can see on screen but aren't quite sure how to arrive at. Some platforms have hazards on. Some will open up underneath you. Some will only bear your weight for a little while. Some are completely safe and out of the way. Some have power-ups, obvious or hidden. The thing is, you only get to play Super Mario Life once. You just keep hopping, trying to rack up as high a score as possible and trusting skill and luck to see you through.

In a sense, The Depression Thread is kind of like playing with a whole bunch of spectators going "Look! Mushroom over there!" "Hey, I've done this bit before - go left, go left!" "Stay on that platform until the flying turtle's gone past then run right." and so on and so forth.

Wait... that wasn't even vaguely relevant, was it?

[PhoeKun]

Wait... that wasn't even vaguely relevant, was it?

If it's not, I think it's at least worth enough awesome points for a free pass. No harm done... :smallbiggrin:

[Bor the Barbarian Monk]

I have seen the doctor, and the semi-official word is that the second bone in the big toe is BROKEN! The surface fracture appears to run length-wise, without effecting the ends of the bone. Now, why is this only semi-official? Well, I've been banged up before, and I've seen such things in my x-rays. It's possible that the line we're seeing is NOT a fracture, and so...we wait. The doc will take another x-ray in three weeks. If there's a calcium cloud around the bone, then we know for sure it's broken. Until then, we treat it like a break. And how do we treat a broken toe, specifically the kind that I have? Stay off it. That's it.

Thus, I will not be playing in the playground. I'll be on a bench, making sure you kids play nice. :smallwink:

[Hell Puppi]

WoOo! Playing nice! *glomps Bor*


*looking down* Opps...sorrry:smalleek:



Edit: Potatocubed, your Super Mario reference was so awesome it's now on my myspace.

[Micate]

*sigh* Loneliness sucks.
:frown:

I need to find me some friends.

[DarkLightDragon]

I'm not the person to comment on the loneliness thing, so I won't.

Speaking of that, though, I've started feeling lonely also, which annoys me greatly as I am not a social person. I don't want to interact with people, yet I feel this loneliness. WHY?! WHY ME?!

The final term of the school year has started for us Aussies. A lot of us, anyway. We have a different school system to other places.

Anyway, I was scared ****less the night before for reasons some of you may know and that I currently do not feel like explaining to those who don't.

I was fine during the holiday break, but after coming back to school, everything is going downhill again. I spent the whole day feeling mega-pissed for no apparent reason, and I'm still mega-pissed now. Everything seems to be going wrong. People are already *****ing at each other, some teachers have already become extremely annoying, I've been ignored, my body temperature is up AGAIN, I'm tired as hell, my meds aren't helping, the list goes on.

I hate everything right now. I need to vent. But I'm not sure how. Posting this here has helped, but I'm still very angry.

[sktarq]

DLD: Have you ever thought of taking up a martial art? Not for the whole sports thing but for getting rid of stress and angst? For allot of people hitting a kickpad REALLY hard on a regular basis is a good thing. Plus all those positive endorphins and such.

[Bor the Barbarian Monk]

@ Micate: I feel your pain, but in my own way. My lack of friends and social skills has me feeling exceptionally lonely. The worst part of it, I think, is that my loneliness is purely by my own design. The thought process goes like this:

1. I have so much baggage that I come with my own baggage handler.
2. I don't need anymore baggage.
3. I tell people about 1 and 2 in detail.
4. They wander out of my life because of 1 and/or 2.

I don't want someone else's baggage. They don't want my baggage. Thus, all baggage remains with the appropriate parties, and I'm left all alone.

Well, that's not completely true. One of the key phrases in my life has been, "Never alone; always lonely." It's moments in my life life this when I wish there was someone around, a REAL friend, that could watch over me. When I say "REAL friend," I'm not speaking of the difference between online and offline. The "friends" I have now are not quite friends.

Despite my accident-prone-self proving once again that I cannot walk through an empty parking lot without injuring myself, I seem to be the one lending the most aid to others. My nextdoor neighbor had a violent blowout with a friend, so I check up on her from time to time. Another neighbor a few doors down is having circulation issues with her legs, so despite my broken toe, I'm the one that offers to make a market limp (as opposed to run) for her she she needs it. My neighbors across the complex have four kids that tend to start playing out of the line of sight (made infinitely easier for the kids, when mom and dad close their door and blinds so often). When their youngest started asking strangers for cookies, I escorted the three-year-old back home and reported the scary situation.

These people are not my friends; I'm simply friendly with them.

But here I am...Broken toed, scraped up, feeling my depression more and more because of these damnable pain meds that I actually need. What I really want is people that will check up on me. I want someone to help take care of me. Amd the worst...those lonely nights when I simply want to be held.

Maybe I'm not much of a "man" for confessing these things. Then again, maybe I'm more of a man for having the guts to confess them. :smallredface:

[13_CBS]

Hmm...I have an interesting conundrum. I've been cutting off pretty much all contact with my friends on top of the other problems I've mentioned a few pages back. I could easily solve this simply by gritting my teeth and going off to be more social...but I don't want to. The loneliness is making me absolutely cold, numb, and miserable, but a part of me almost wants to keep it up.

Am I becoming an emotional masochist? :smallconfused:

[Thes Hunter]

Hmm...I have an interesting conundrum. I've been cutting off pretty much all contact with my friends on top of the other problems I've mentioned a few pages back. I could easily solve this simply by gritting my teeth and going off to be more social...but I don't want to. The loneliness is making me absolutely cold, numb, and miserable, but a part of me almost wants to keep it up.

Am I becoming an emotional masochist? :smallconfused:

I am not a doctor, but I feel that is a clear example of a biochemical imbalance raging in your brain.

Because you feel lonely, you are driving everyone away, and this actually feels a bit 'good' to you. I would suggest chatting with some sort of consular. I am sure they could give you much better insight on this instead of all of us on da internets. :smallwink:

[Closet_Skeleton]

Maybe I'm not much of a "man" for confessing these things. Then again, maybe I'm more of a man for having the guts to confess them. :smallredface:

I never understood this whole 'masculinity' thing. When I get upset, I start to think about every bad trait of mine and every mistake I've made, and masculinity never comes into it.

Maybe I just didn't have pay enough attention to other people's attitudes when I was younger. It's probably better to have one less thing to worry about anyway.

[DarkLightDragon]

DLD: Have you ever thought of taking up a martial art? Not for the whole sports thing but for getting rid of stress and angst? For allot of people hitting a kickpad REALLY hard on a regular basis is a good thing. Plus all those positive endorphins and such. I like that idea, but I'm not exactly fit at the moment.

My cat is meowing at me. I feel like kicking him. But I'm just going to ignore him.

Oh, and all that crap I'm going through? It just got worse. Today, minutes after the school day started, everyone in my year group is gathered in one place, and the principal is talking to us. What about? One of the students from our year group, let's call her B, has a brain tumour, which we have known for some time, but it turns out it can't be treated and she is under palliative care. It's not known how long B will live-it could be weeks or months. Right now she is spending quality time with her family and she's amazingly positive about everything. Inspiring, but I'm not in the mood to be positive right now.

I've known B for years. I wasn't particularly close to her-we didn't even hang out. But we went to the same primary school and I'm pretty badly affected by what's happening.

Anyway, I've been a wreck today. I've broken down to tears quite a few times and been extremely *****y to everyone. I ended up going home early, as a few other students did. I'm having headaches, a sore throat, finding it hard to breathe, panicking, a whole bunch of stuff. I even nearly ended up beating myself with a drink bottle shortly before typing this. It's probably a good thing dad was in the room at the same time or I probably would have done so.

There are people to talk to at school, who I have talked to, but I still feel... bad... It's good that B's enjoying the time she has left, which I hope she continues to enjoy, and I'm happy for her because of that, but I'm also very sad that this is happening to her...

:smallfrown: :smallfrown: :smallfrown:

[Serpentine]

DLD, if your emotions are being screwy and you can't properly pinpoint the reason, I suggest that you go talk to a doctor to find out whether it's a medical problem. As for B, it might help you a little to go visit and talk to her. Just because you weren't really friends doesn't mean you shouldn't care, and doesn't mean she won't appreciate your presence. You never know, if nothing else it might put things in perspective for you.

[13_CBS]

I am not a doctor, but I feel that is a clear example of a biochemical imbalance raging in your brain.

Because you feel lonely, you are driving everyone away, and this actually feels a bit 'good' to you. I would suggest chatting with some sort of consular. I am sure they could give you much better insight on this instead of all of us on da internets. :smallwink:

Oh geez, is it that bad? :smalleek:

I'm really not sure my family has the financial resources to send me to a psychiatrist, or, if you're talking about something else, be able to handle the "shame" of going to a counselor. (Yes, I say "shame" because my family's not really the type to feel compassion for people with mental problems, only disdain and contempt).

[Rex Idiotarum]

Welcome to life, which always game overs, you can never get to the end credits. Or the surprise bonus cutscene afterwards.

Really, there's not much comfort I can give you, but ask yourself this, if you were that girl, with but a few months to live, would you have everyone grieving as if you were already dead?

Hell no, you'd party like it was the end of the world, you attempt to do all the experiences that you would otherwise be passed up.

Cancer and AIDs, though slow and painful, and eventually debilitating, at least has that going for them. The girl got warning. If she's Religious, she's just going home, and has time to pack. If she's not so religious, then she has a chance to say goodbye to everyone.

Unlike, say, if she died in a car accident, like a few of the kids at my school did. ((I really only interacted with one before, but I never had a real talk with them, and my reputation of uncaring ass@#$% demands that I just have to shrug it off as if I didn't know her.)) Or people who die in a heart attack or a stroke.

My suggestion, since she doesn't seem too down about it, talk to her if you are able, you might find that she may cheer you up. I'm guessing she may be religious by the way she seems pretty positive, even in the face of Death. ((I know I wouldn't be so positive about meeting Death, I don't like having to endure his horrible puns.)) She may actually cheer you up about it.

Remember, there are 5 stages of grief, and she's either in denial or in acceptance.

Lastly, if all that doesn't work, then I implore you to accept life and the fact that it is not made perfect, you can either obsess over all the imperfections in it, failure, death, weakness, illness, your own cloud and bubble that prevents you from letting the people you need in or out, and just say screw it.

I hope, if there's anything that you learn from this, anything at all, it's that Life is Short. Too short for grief. Too short for isolation. Too short for anything.

I'm comfortable with the fact, that, should I die tomorrow, I wouldn't regret anything, I'd just be pissed that I was taken before I could put my mark on the world. Could you say the same?

[Thes Hunter]

Oh geez, is it that bad? :smalleek:

I'm really not sure my family has the financial resources to send me to a psychiatrist, or, if you're talking about something else, be able to handle the "shame" of going to a counselor. (Yes, I say "shame" because my family's not really the type to feel compassion for people with mental problems, only disdain and contempt).

I would begin by speaking to your school's nurse about it. Make sure to tell her about your family's stigma. And see if she/he can recommend any resources to you.

But yeah, mental health is not covered as it should be in this country. A chemical imbalance in the brain that leads to depression is much the same as someone who has heartburn because their stomach produces too much acid. It's a shame that this culture blames the person for one illness but not the other.

[Amotis]

*sigh* Loneliness sucks.
:frown:

I need to find me some friends.

I'm a SD person too. If you ever want to hang out with my groups my friend's and I would be happy to help. We've got several larps going on (the changeling balboa ones you've probably heard about as well as some others), more then a few table top groups I can hook you up with, and just general SoCal dealings. I'm personally 19 as well are my closer friends but the general group age seems to be 22-24 so I think if you wanna join us in any of our activities drop me a PM or IM.

[Lappy9000]

You just gotta try your best to always look on the bright side!

Sounds cheesy but it's true! For example, my doctor recently diagnosed me with deslexia. I look him straight in the eye and said with confidence, "Lesdexia? Sensenon!"

(In all seriousness, though, humor is the best medicine for depression :smalltongue: )

[Bor the Barbarian Monk]

Okay...some people may have noticed that I'm becoming very...un-Bor-like.

There are two reasons for this. The first is that I'm off my meds. I would have seen the doc and gotten refills, but my broken self got in the way of that. I called to tell them that I needed refills, and was told that if my pharmacy called, there wouldn't be a problem. And guess what? There was a problem! Add to this that, having called to cancel the psych appointment, I received a call to tell me that I missed my psych appointment. :smallconfused:

The second reason are my pain meds. For all intents and pruposes, they are depressants. Just one more reason I hate taking these damnable things.

This is where I start losing the fight, folks. I hate being in this kind of emotional shape. 'Tis a dangerous time for the barbarian monk, as he tends to start being hunted by his very self. :smallfrown:

[DarkLightDragon]

I'm mostly over my "Oh crap, someone's gonna die!" thing, but I'm still not quite in the mood to respond to comments yet. However, I have read them, and would like to say thanks. So... thanks!

*gives Bor a hug due to not knowing what to say*

[Micate]

Okay...some people may have noticed that I'm becoming very...un-Bor-like.

There are two reasons for this. The first is that I'm off my meds. I would have seen the doc and gotten refills, but my broken self got in the way of that. I called to tell them that I needed refills, and was told that if my pharmacy called, there wouldn't be a problem. And guess what? There was a problem! Add to this that, having called to cancel the psych appointment, I received a call to tell me that I missed my psych appointment. :smallconfused:

The second reason are my pain meds. For all intents and pruposes, they are depressants. Just one more reason I hate taking these damnable things.

This is where I start losing the fight, folks. I hate being in this kind of emotional shape. 'Tis a dangerous time for the barbarian monk, as he tends to start being hunted by his very self. :smallfrown:

Hang in there Bor. We believe in you!

*to everyone* All together now!

We think you can!
We think you can!
We think you can!
We think you can!
We think you can!
We ...

Scratch that, we KNOW you can!

Get better soon.

[Bor the Barbarian Monk]

Okay. folks...Serious stuff here. I know some will worry. Some will panic. Others will shrug and move on.

I was able to get my meds, and am in the process of getting back on them. it's going to take several weeks for them to get to the levels they need to be at. That's where the good news stops.

I have reached my low point, and I am fighting fiercely not to let it overcome me. I'm hanging on to my virtual sense of humor so tightly that my virtual knuckles are white. Every waking moment is spent wishing I was dead, or at least asleep and not facing the day at all. I shun people, and become irrtated when I'm forced to interact with them in real life. While posting here, I feel as though my posts are moronic, possibly insulting (with specific apologies to Serpentine in the Crush'd thread), and I have abandoned many of the drafts that I was going to submit. The same applies to a dozen PMs that I never sent.

My saving grace has been Nike, who needs me to get out of bed and feed her. Otherwise, I really don't want to do anything with my day...at all. I don't enjoy the things I once enjoyed doing. Where I thought I was being helpful, I feel as though I've been spouting gibberish.

People seem to think I'm some kind of savior that has come to visit the internet. It's a touching thought. This, however, is the "savior" needing to be saved. I'm not screaming for help, necessarily...just trying to make people aware that my ship is sinking, and I'm bailing water as fast as I possibly can.

[bluewind95]

I definitely understand how you must be feeling right now, Bor.

My words are probably not enough to help, but...

I may not have been posting here for very long, but I've watched. I've been a lurker for a few months. I've gotten to notice a few people in my lurking.

You're one of them. And you've stuck me as the kind of person who's nice(this coming from a person who's generally terrified of people). And nice people are people who are well-worth their space and air in this world and the kind of people that the world should have more of. So I pray that you can see this and feel better about yourself.

I wish that I could help, somehow. It really stirs me to see people who are nice and kind feel that way about themselves. So... my prayers go for you, Bor.

[Raiser Blade]

Sigh, today sucked.

First i just found out some bad news about this girl i used to be friends with. Turns out she got pregnant a while back. She is only 14. The only reason i heard was because she miscarried her baby.

So young...


I used to like this girl about 2 years ago....


Oh yeah and i also found out today that my grandpa has a degenerative eye condition and will be blind in a few years.

My emotions are going nuts right now...



Also *hugs bor*

[Lemur]

Oh geez, is it that bad? :smalleek:

I'm really not sure my family has the financial resources to send me to a psychiatrist, or, if you're talking about something else, be able to handle the "shame" of going to a counselor. (Yes, I say "shame" because my family's not really the type to feel compassion for people with mental problems, only disdain and contempt).

I'm not entirely certain it's all due to something as simple as a chemical imbalance (it rarely ever is), although there might be some of that going on. It would probably benefit you to try thinking about your situation in different terms. I'm sure you have friends who care about you, but aren't sure how to approach you, and anyone who tries to tell you your feelings are trivial doesn't have anything to say worth taking seriously. Just being able to say what's on you're mind would probably help a lot (easier said than done, I know- I agonize over how everything I write will be taken. But it does work). Talking to a counselor would be a good thing, but if that's not viable, that's what we're here for.

DLD: Read this when you're ready. It'll probably mean a bit more when you're feeling more stabilized:

DLD: Have you ever thought of taking up a martial art? Not for the whole sports thing but for getting rid of stress and angst? For allot of people hitting a kickpad REALLY hard on a regular basis is a good thing. Plus all those positive endorphins and such.


I like that idea, but I'm not exactly fit at the moment.

Does anything seem odd about this response? I'd say that not being fit is a good reason to take up a physical activity, not a reason to avoid one.


Personally, I've been feeling kinda blah lately, reaching the two thirds point in the term. I'm more likely to feel anxiety than depression, so for me it's not so much a positive/negative problem as it is taking things too seriously. It's a lot easier to complete a task if I don't think it's important, but even if I think a relatively simple task is important, (in this case, college transfer applications), I'll invariably try to avoid it. I'm not in trouble quite yet, but I just wanted to say that.

[banjo1985]

Okay. folks...Serious stuff here. I know some will worry. Some will panic. Others will shrug and move on.

I was able to get my meds, and am in the process of getting back on them. it's going to take several weeks for them to get to the levels they need to be at. That's where the good news stops.

I have reached my low point, and I am fighting fiercely not to let it overcome me. I'm hanging on to my virtual sense of humor so tightly that my virtual knuckles are white. Every waking moment is spent wishing I was dead, or at least asleep and not facing the day at all. I shun people, and become irrtated when I'm forced to interact with them in real life. While posting here, I feel as though my posts are moronic, possibly insulting (with specific apologies to Serpentine in the Crush'd thread), and I have abandoned many of the drafts that I was going to submit. The same applies to a dozen PMs that I never sent.

My saving grace has been Nike, who needs me to get out of bed and feed her. Otherwise, I really don't want to do anything with my day...at all. I don't enjoy the things I once enjoyed doing. Where I thought I was being helpful, I feel as though I've been spouting gibberish.

People seem to think I'm some kind of savior that has come to visit the internet. It's a touching thought. This, however, is the "savior" needing to be saved. I'm not screaming for help, necessarily...just trying to make people aware that my ship is sinking, and I'm bailing water as fast as I possibly can.

Bor, I can't even begin to understand how your feeling right now, but after the help and kind words you've given so many people on this thread I think it's the least we can do to try and give some kind words back to you while you're feeling so low. I have no experience with depression or the medication issues involved with it, so I'll just stick to other things, as I don't want to suggest things I know nothing about.

I think SurlySeraph said it much more eloquently in your signature than I ever could, but he is completely right. It's obvious from your posts that you are a bright and unbelievably caring individual that I think most people on this forum would be honoured to have as a friend. You've been a shining beacon of sound advice for a lot of people here in the depths of depression, I just hope others more experienced in the situation than I will answer you in your time of need.

Finally, just try your hardest to keep bailing that water and keep the ship afloat. Hopefully the meds will start to do their stuff soon and that you'll feel at least a little better and more able to engage the people around you both here and in RL.

Just hang in there Bor....Nike needs feeding!

Oh, and massive huggles from a well-meaning but ultimately fairly unhelpful forumite :smallsmile:

[SurlySeraph]

Okay. Usually just reading this thread makes me un-depressed, by reminding me that no matter how my problems seem, they're not nearly as bad as pretty much anyone else's. My family's got more money than we need and they're very supportive of me, I don't really have any enemies, I never really feel lonely, I get good grades, I don't have to worry about getting a job, I don't get injured much, etc.

Nonetheless, mentally I'm not in a very good state right now.
It's my last year of high school. This semester is basically all that counts, it's the only thing I can control now. And I just don't care anymore. I always used to do all my work in advance, work really hard in all of my classes, spend most of my spare time studying. But I don't care anymore, and I'm not trying anymore. And what makes it worse is that I don't care that I don't care. Normally, doing what I know is wrong makes me feel guilty, which makes me do what I'm supposed to. But it doesn't seem like anything is important anymore. Yesterday I was working on math, and I just started asking myself why I was doing it. Why I was trying to get a good grade. Why I wanted to go to a good college. Why I wanted to be able to help people. Why I wanted to help people. Why I was doing anything at all. And I couldn't find a good enough answer. I'm religious, and I want to do good for the world, but I feel like being good doesn't matter anymore. I feel like I deserve to go to Hell, and I don't care about making myself not deserve to go to Hell. I don't care about myself, I don't care about anyone. Everything just seems so meaningless. I just don't see a reason for anything anymore.
This brings me to another point. My mental health has never been too good. I got mediocre grades until 9th grade (even though everyone I know thinks I'm smart), when my mom decided to get me diagnosed with ADHD and put me on Ritalin. My grades shot up. I've been depressed off and on pretty much since kindergarden. I used to think I might be bipolar, since I was depressed a lot of the time and acted like a complete idiot whenever I was happy (which, in turn, made me depressed again!). Eventually I managed to break that pattern, though. Early this summer, I read an article on schizophrenia. I had every symptom they mentioned. I did some research, and I'm pretty sure I'm schizophrenic. It explains a lot of my behavioral stuff - being depressed, flat affect, how I have trouble carrying on a conversation, everything about me. It also explains something I have that I hadn't really thought about before and that I hadn't thought might be a problem. When I'm in really tough or frightening situations, it's like I can feel my mind splitting into pieces. I can hear what I'm thinking, but it's not me thinking, it's like there are several people there. The example I remember the most clearly is one time when I was intending to cut myself on my thumb (as penance for something I did, I don't normally hurt myself). There was one part of me thinking "This is crazy! Why the hell are you doing this?! This is going to hurt! Don't let it hurt!" There was one part of me thinking "You promised this to God. You're supposed to do it. Do it." And then there was one part of me thinking "Why stop at your thumb? Your throat is right there."
Normally, the second of those parts of my personality (which I think of as "the drone") is the one that's in charge. I do the work I'm supposed to, I get ahead, I'm not happy but I'm responsible enough that I never do anything that'll make me really unhappy. I try to be in complete control of myself at all times, and it's worked out for me pretty well. However, right now the third one (which I think of as "the destroyer") is in charge.
At the end of the first week of school, it basically hijacked my mind. I was lying in bed trying to sleep, thinking about this girl I like, and I could hear the destroyer saying that I was never going to be with her. She's the most perfect girl you'll ever meet, and you missed your chance with her. After this year ends, you'll never see her again. It was painful allowing myself to hear these thoughts, but I let myself hear them. I could've gotten up and read something to get my mind off of it, but I didn't. I was looking at the light coming in from the window, and I knew that there was hope, that I could be a good person, that I could change. And the destroyer wanted me to close my eyes so I couldn't see the light, so all my attention would be on my thoughts, and I closed them. You could have been happy, but you decided not to. She liked you, and you liked her, and you did nothing. You've probably screwed her up pretty badly by doing that, and you've screwed yourself up worse. You're so useless. Every thought that passed through my mind felt like getting punched, but I let it keep happening. I started hearing thoughts like that about everything, about how I didn't work hard enough, about how I was too judgmental of harmless things and too tolerant of bad things. After a while I could still hear the destroyer's thoughts, except they started with "I" instead of "you." I'm such a goddamn idiot, I don't deserve to live and I don't deserve a chance to make myself deserve to live. That's the way I was thinking. That's when I really stopped caring about anything. I started intentionally doing stuff that I knew was a bad idea, like staying up until 2 on school nights not even doing anything I wanted to do, but just staying up. When someone in my family tells me to go to sleep, I stay up longer for no reason at all. I spend my free time during the day doing anything except working and I spend the night avoiding sleep. I do almost no work until the last minute anymore, and I'm not trying to get ahead on anything. I just don't care.

Anyway, I might write more later. There's some more concrete stuff I might want to talk about. It just feels weird - there's stuff that I feel like I should be depressed about, but I feel nothing about it. I just feel so empty.

Also, *hug* for Bor. His well-being matters. Anyone who's willing to suffer that much on behalf of others - and is thoughtful enough to worry that he should be helping himself instead of people who are better-off than him - is most likely a saint, and that is not hyperbole.

[wadledo]

And I thought I was sad.
*hugs of infinite sympathy*

[ArlEammon]

Wayyyy back earlier in the thread I did mention I got forced to have gang sex. Yeah. I'm still not happy about that.

[wadledo]

Awwwww,
*hugs of your on my IM list, so you deserve something*

[ArlEammon]

hahah lol o..k

[Bor the Barbarian Monk]

Okay...In an attempt to concentrate on something other than myself...

@ Bluewind95 & Banjo1985: Never devalue your efforts to be kind. Sometimes, all you have to to is show a desire to hear an honest response to, "How are you?" You need not do it all the time, but occasionally showing that you truly care, no matter the words, is what counts.

@ Raiser B1ade: Degenerative eye disease? This calls for a subscription to Playboy! He'll want to remember those images when his sight is gone. :smallwink:

Seriously, if he can still see, then now is the time to let him see those things he's always wanted to before his sight is gone. I'm a bit of a dreamer in this department, and wish I could cough up a few thousand dollars for it...but see if it isn't possible for him to travel to see the what he wants. The Grand Canyon, the Great Wall of China, Ghettysburg, the Western (Wailing) Wall in Isreal...whatever. Can't afford it? He's not physically able to travel? Then fulfill the sentiment by way of a virtual tour on your computer, compiled of the best pictures you can find, as well as what you can muster in terms of the history of those sites.

What can I say? I'm a sentimental fool, and even that last effort, (and what might seem a lot like a child's project), would mean the world to me.

@ SurlySeraph: Before I get to your issues, I need to give a bit of a warning. Calling me "Saint Bor" or refering to me as a saint has become a problem in the past. (They'll want to try and have me bronzed again, which promises to be painful. :smalleek: ) For the time being, I'm merely a man, trying to be a nice guy. That's it. I ain't no saint. :smallredface:

As to your problems, GET THEE TO A NUNNERY!...ummm...GET THEE TO A DOCTOR! We can't, and more specifically WON'T, try to diagnose you here. Even if we could, what can we honestly do to help, other than listen? If you are truly schizophrenic, then you need medications to manage the issue. The same would apply to being bipolar, or any other lengthy list of psychological illnesses.

Using myself as an example, as I'm really the "mental case" I know best, I know the difference between "a case of the blues" and "genuine depression." I can get the blues from seeing a movie I've waited ages to be released, only to find out it sucked beyond all imagining. (*sigh* Now I have to supress memories of Ghost Rider all over again.) That thread where you made the quote that I sigged...my reaction there was depression, a SEVERE emotional response to something that should have been inconsequential. (I should have felt bad at the most; instead, I cried.) That was the BIG sign that I was in trouble, and was the key moment when I started to rapidly sink.

What you're experiencing could be stress, hormonal changes, or genuine mental illness. Don't play games with any of them. See a doctor, get an official diagnosis, and treat it.

*holds up bucket*

See this? Now watch closely. This is how you bail.

*demonstrates hoisting water out of the sinking boat*

Have a doctor prescribe you your own bucket and get to work. :smallsmile:

[13_CBS]

Oh, but we depressed folk like to wallow in our misery, if only for a little while. :smalltongue:

I'm enjoying the mud a little too much to be healthy, though, I think.

[fuzzypotatoe]

{Scrubbed}

[wadledo]

I really hope that the people here who are depressed will feel better soon.

I know I do.

[bluewind95]

In an effort to try again to bring the topic closer to it's intent, I was curious about Seasonal Affective Disorder. I've heard that bright lights earlier in the morning were supposed to help, has anyone on the forums tried it?

I had heard that Seasonal Affective Disorder is caused by lack of light. So I suppose that might be true. I ought to try that one.

On the same note... has anyone here ever tried the sleeping aid melatonin?

[PhoeKun]

In an effort to try again to bring the topic closer to it's intent, I was curious about Seasonal Affective Disorder. I've heard that bright lights earlier in the morning were supposed to help, has anyone on the forums tried it?

An uncle of mine tried that approach once. He claimed it helped a lot, but honestly, I couldn't tell the difference... unless that was the point, in which case the whole thing is highly overrated. :smallyuk:

As I understand it, though, the condition isn't tied to a specific time of day... hm. I'm not especially helpful, am I?

[Kyace]

I had heard that Seasonal Affective Disorder is caused by lack of light. So I suppose that might be true. I ought to try that one.

On the same note... has anyone here ever tried the sleeping aid melatonin?

I've actually got a bottle on hand, found it in the dietary supplement section of walmart (where the vitamins are). It worked great for me the first time knocking me out so fast I went from awake to asleep follow clothed with the TV on (likely aided by the fact that I hadn't slept well the night before), but I noticed it didn't really have the kick that a painkiller PM or such would have, for me after repeated use. I had a nurse practitioner suggest it so it seems fairly well regarded in the field. Read the warnings on the bottle and honestly, don't plan on driving until you're used to it.

[bluewind95]

I've actually got a bottle on hand, found it in the dietary supplement section of walmart (where the vitamins are). It worked great for me the first time knocking me out so fast I went from awake to asleep follow clothed with the TV on (likely aided by the fact that I hadn't slept well the night before), but I noticed it didn't really have the kick that a painkiller PM or such would have. I had a nurse practitioner suggest it so it seems fairly well regarded in the field. Read the warnings on the bottle and honestly, don't plan on driving until you're used to it.

I used to take a melatonin a lot more a few years ago. Its effects are awesome when it comes to sleeping. But in my case, using it depresses me very badly. I'm not sure if that's a common thing or if I'm just too sensitive to it.

[Sisqui]

Melatonin and seratonin are antagonists. They compete for the same receptor but have opposite effects. Seratonin, which perks you up, can activate the receptor but melatonin, which makes you sleepy, cannot. Too much melatonin blocks the seratonin and causes sleepiness/drowsiness. They are the same basic molecule and IIRC melatonin is converted into seratonin by sunlight so a decrease in sunlight makes you sleepy. As evidenced by cloudy day blues. Again, IIRC and that might be a sucker's bet :smallwink:

[bluewind95]

Melatonin and seratonin are antagonists. They compete for the same receptor but have opposite effects. Seratonin, which perks you up, can activate the receptor but melatonin, which makes you sleepy, cannot. Too much melatonin blocks the seratonin and causes sleepiness/drowsiness. They are the same basic molecule and IIRC melatonin is converted into seratonin by sunlight so a decrease in sunlight makes you sleepy. As evidenced by cloudy day blues. Again, IIRC and that might be a sucker's bet :smallwink:

Huh... and serotonin is the same neurotransmitter that makes you feel happy, isn't it?

... I think I should really not mess with melatonin.

[Kyace]

I used to take a melatonin a lot more a few years ago. Its effects are awesome when it comes to sleeping. But in my case, using it depresses me very badly. I'm not sure if that's a common thing or if I'm just too sensitive to it.

It may be a side effect of the melatonin or caused by it interacting with something else you've taken. If you're at the pharmacy where you get your prescriptions filled, you might ask a pharmacist there if it would interact with anything else you are on.

Edit: /\ @ Sisqui: Did not know that but that makes a good deal of sense.

[Sisqui]

Huh... and serotonin is the same neurotransmitter that makes you feel happy, isn't it?

... I think I should really not mess with melatonin.

You could always consult your physician (who would no doubt give more thorough and accurate advice than someone digging through old college memories :smalltongue: ). But yes, serotonin is one of the main NT's responsible for mood.

EDIT:Also, not to pry, but are you on an SSRI? If so, that will be a contraindication for taking melatonin as the whole point of an SSRI is that it is a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor. SSRI's keep more of your body's natural serotonin available and an increase in melatonin would be the opposite of what you would want. (Also guaranteed to NOT be medical advice :smallredface: )

[bluewind95]

It may be a side effect of the melatonin or caused by it interacting with something else you've taken. If you're at the pharmacy where you get your prescriptions filled, you might ask a pharmacist there if it would interact with anything else you are on.

That's the thing. I wasn't on anything else at the time.


You could always consult your physician (who would no doubt give more thorough and accurate advice than someone digging through old college memories :smalltongue: ). But yes, serotonin is one of the main NT's responsible for mood.

Ahhh. Thanks. That explains a good deal. And I'll probably take your advice and investigate further. I find the whole thing about how the brain works fascinating.

Edit: No, I haven't been on any meds in... a very long time.

[Dallas-Dakota]

I take melatonin(e), on a regular base, in fact I just took it like half an hour ago.

You say it makes me sleepy with decrease of light?




Wow, I geuss it IS true that the only light a gamer needs is his screen light:smalltongue:

[Lilly]

The Fairy Modmother: DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS. The thread is re-open for business. The removed parts are still under review. And as a brief reminder, replying to spam is against the rules as well.

Lilly's hypothesis of psychic trolls: The worse a moderator's day, and the lateness of the hour of discovery correlates directly with the severity of the troll attack.

[Ego Slayer]

Yay, clean thread. Thankyou!


I had heard that Seasonal Affective Disorder is caused by lack of light. So I suppose that might be true. I ought to try that one.
Yes. Lack of sunlight/vitamin D. Vit. D deficiency is linked to depression. As I don't get out in the sun nearly enough, it's been suggested to me that I take D... So, get in the sun, or get supplements.

[13_CBS]

Yay! The thread is back open.

Despite the...abrasiveness of the past posters, I still wonder at the truth in their advice. I, for one, am worried that I'm simply wallowing here, basking in the glorious attention, pity, and sympathy of the awesome posters here. It's odd, but you know how some people refuse to take medicine they know will cure them? I feel like I'm in that situation. I could probably go out and be social with my old friends again, one last time before college. Heck, maybe I can take that last step and set up a facebook account.

But I don't want to. The above solutions could go a long way to help me. But I don't want to go through them.

Laziness? Perhaps. Or maybe, as I said above, I'm enjoying my misery, if that makes any sense.

Hmm...

[The Great Skenardo]

Try this. On a weekend, think of a restaurant you like to go to. Now, call up your friends, and see if they'd like to go out to eat. Be flexible, and try and work it so a lot of people can come. then, go.

The hard part is taking the initiative. Wallowing is for pigs.

[13_CBS]

Try this. On a weekend, think of a restaurant you like to go to. Now, call up your friends, and see if they'd like to go out to eat. Be flexible, and try and work it so a lot of people can come. then, go.

The hard part is taking the initiative. Wallowing is for pigs.

Heh, not this semester. Until college stuff is over, no socializing like that for me.

As you said, though, the hard part is taking up the initiative, the drive to go actually do something about the problem. I'm having trouble taking that first step, I think.

[Raiser Blade]

@ Raiser B1ade: Degenerative eye disease? This calls for a subscription to Playboy! He'll want to remember those images when his sight is gone. :smallwink:

Seriously, if he can still see, then now is the time to let him see those things he's always wanted to before his sight is gone. I'm a bit of a dreamer in this department, and wish I could cough up a few thousand dollars for it...but see if it isn't possible for him to travel to see the what he wants. The Grand Canyon, the Great Wall of China, Ghettysburg, the Western (Wailing) Wall in Isreal...whatever. Can't afford it? He's not physically able to travel? Then fulfill the sentiment by way of a virtual tour on your computer, compiled of the best pictures you can find, as well as what you can muster in terms of the history of those sites.


He does live in arizona so i'm pretty sure he's seen that one. As for the playboy. Well he's 65 and he has a "lady-friend" who i hear is in her mid fifties. (My grandpa's a regular cradle-robber.) :smallwink:

[The Great Skenardo]

Then maybe you could benefit from taking a spontaneous attitude to things. Keep an eye on your responsibilities, but try stepping out a little. Go to weird clubs on campus just to see what they're about. Try your hand at the tai-kwan-do club, or get involved in local politics.

Not only do these look good on your resume, but they take surprisingly little amount of time, especially for sports clubs. They're also a fantastic way to meet people.

[Sisqui]

As you said, though, the hard part is taking up the initiative, the drive to go actually do something about the problem. I'm having trouble taking that first step, I think.

An earlier post of mine got removed, but the gist of it was- just because it's that simple doesn't mean it's that easy.

[The Great Skenardo]

An earlier post of mine got removed, but the gist of it was- just because it's that simple doesn't mean it's that easy.

Aye. But it'd be a mistake to take that as an excuse not to do it.

[Sisqui]

Aye. But it'd be a mistake to take that as an excuse not to do it.

True. But a lot of people don't seem to make that connection. They just say "I don't get it. What's the big deal?" I think people have to realize that even if it's that simple in concept, the problems people are facing make it much more difficult to actually do. But I also think people who have managed to suck it up and deal deserve a little respect. No one knows how hard it is until they personally have to do it. I think that's what got me so mad about the, uh, previous conflict.

[The Great Skenardo]

True. But a lot of people don't seem to make that connection. They just say "I don't get it. What's the big deal?" I think people have to realize that even if it's that simple in concept, the problems people are facing make it much more difficult to actually do. But I also think people who have managed to suck it up and deal deserve a little respect. No one knows how hard it is until they personally have to do it. I think that's what got me so mad about the, uh, previous conflict.

I speak from experience here; the greater part of my education, I spent my time locked up with my books. Stellar grades, but maybe only one or two real friends.
When I got a little further along, I realized that if I wanted my life to amount to something outside of paper, I'd have to step out a little. So I joined a Tai-kwan-Do club and the chinese club. Now I find it's a struggle to spent as much time as I should on school. Go figure. :smallamused:

[13_CBS]

I speak from experience here; the greater part of my education, I spent my time locked up with my books. Stellar grades, but maybe only one or two real friends.
When I got a little further along, I realized that if I wanted my life to amount to something outside of paper, I'd have to step out a little. So I joined a Tai-kwan-Do club and the chinese club. Now I find it's a struggle to spent as much time as I should on school. Go figure. :smallamused:

My mother would find that sort of thing abhorrent, unfortunately. :smallfrown:

It still sounds like great fun to do, though. I still wonder why part of me recognizes the problem while the other refuses to fix it. :smallconfused:

[The Great Skenardo]

My mother would find that sort of thing abhorrent, unfortunately. :smallfrown:

It still sounds like great fun to do, though. I still wonder why part of me recognizes the problem while the other refuses to fix it. :smallconfused:

I wouldn't dwell on that. You won't get any answers, and brooding will only keep you from acting. Acting is what's important in this case. You can sit and contemplate your navel, but you'll just be wasting more time alone while you run circles around your own mind.

[Sisqui]

I speak from experience here; the greater part of my education, I spent my time locked up with my books. Stellar grades, but maybe only one or two real friends.
When I got a little further along, I realized that if I wanted my life to amount to something outside of paper, I'd have to step out a little. So I joined a Tai-kwan-Do club and the chinese club. Now I find it's a struggle to spent as much time as I should on school. Go figure. :smallamused:

Pretty much the same here. I finally realized there is no one who can make your life better for you. I dumped the meds and the doctors who were pushing them. Got a job, my own apartment (later a house), my own car, and went looking for a significant other. 7 years later I am happily married with a baby. And I did it by just getting up off my butt and doing it for myself instead of expecting someone to come along and do the hard work for me. And it is the hardest work you'll ever do. But hey, it's your LIFE! What is worth that kind of effort if that isn't? Probably the hardest thing was accepting that failure and rejection are possibilities and that no one has a right to exempt themselves from them. Life just doesn't make that an option. But, you know, you could hide from all of the heartache of life every day, just hide under your bed and let it all pass you by, and you'd still be miserable and alone. Pain can find you anywhere. Happiness you have to go out and find for yourself.

*ends motivational speech* :smallredface:


I wouldn't dwell on that. You won't get any answers, and brooding will only keep you from acting. Acting is what's important in this case. You can sit and contemplate your navel, but you'll just be wasting more time alone while you run circles around your own mind.

QFT!

[Serpentine]

Bor, I can't say it was pleasant being laughed at, but I wasn't scarred by it or anything, so don't worry about it. I don't know, but I think you need a project, a goal that you can work to and fill your days with, maybe even just a hobby. Even something as simple as "draw satisfactory avatars" or "finish this puzzle" or "memorise the name of every major river in the world" (that one was a high school assignment >.<). If you're feeling really ambitious, I'm having some luck teaching my cat to "sit" :smallsmile:

Not my depression, but my Canadian gentleman friend's. In the course of a week, things just went from bad to ridiculous for him. The first day, he was complaining about girl problems - crush and ex. The next day, his uncle died of an unknown illness. The next day, his brother went into hospital for brain surgery after he had a motorbike accident. He was then put into an artificial coma, but it seems that when they were considering taking him off those drugs, he had a rather abrupt downward turn. To the point where he's now on life support :smalleek:
*sigh* I wish I could be there to make him tasty things and check that he really is okay...

[TigerHunter]

I finally realized there is no one who can make your life better for you. I dumped the meds and the doctors who were pushing them. Got a job, my own apartment (later a house), my own car, and went looking for a significant other. 7 years later I am happily married with a baby. And I did it by just getting up off my butt and doing it for myself instead of expecting someone to come along and do the hard work for me. And it is the hardest work you'll ever do. But hey, it's your LIFE! What is worth that kind of effort if that isn't? Probably the hardest thing was accepting that failure and rejection are possibilities and that no one has a right to exempt themselves from them. Life just doesn't make that an option. But, you know, you could hide from all of the heartache of life every day, just hide under your bed and let it all pass you by, and you'd still be miserable and alone. Pain can find you anywhere. Happiness you have to go out and find for yourself.
I think I'm going to save that somewhere, maybe print it out and pin it to the wall.

Anyways. I posted in a previous incarnation of this thread, then things were pretty good for a while.
They're still good, actually, but the local DA is determined to ruin that. I pushed my mother out of the way when she tried to stop me from leaving the house a few months ago, and now I have to go stand trial for assault.
I'm terrified. Everyone's told me that it'll be fine and the judge will drop the case, but I just can't get over the fact that I'm going on trial. I'm cycling through misanthropy, wanting to die, and denial. I can't go to sleep, because if I do, it'll be tomorrow.
I've spoken with three friends about it tonight, one of whom has gone through all the same things before... and they've all told me to get some rest, and that it'll all be over soon.
I'm a complete wreck over this. I just want to pack my bag and go to school tomorrow, like a normal kid. The universe seems to be actively trying to make a misanthrope out of me.

[Rejakor]

This is my first post in the depression thread(new or old). Funny thing, because i've been suffering from depression for years, and this is the first time, just recently, I could say i'm actually feeling happy. The secret, i've found, is identifying things that f*** you up, and removing them. It's really that simple. Well, alright, not really. But it's fairly simple. Focus on the now, don't worry about things outside of your control, try and make things inside your control as simple as possible, and have great friends.

That's my advice, from one depressee to another(s).

:smallsmile:

[DarkLightDragon]

The secret, i've found, is identifying things that f*** you up, and removing them. I'm sure removing people is just a bit illegal :smallwink:

Before anyone starts worrying, I'm not that extreme. I was just having a joke.

[Rex Idiotarum]

No, I get what he was saying. I have been depressed before, a two week slump where I was on the verge of tears and in a cloud where all I could do is write horrible poetry about how cold and dark the world is.

Nothing I did was right, and really, the people I thought were friends really hated me. That happens a lot.

Two things happened; I got told by some random bimbo that nobody likes me and everyone hates me. (I remained calm, and told her to @#$% herself, and soon she was removed from the place yelling.) And at a table of people I thought were cool, that I thought were friends, everyone took her side. Cause she's the mess. My life's all peaches and cream.

The Second thing was I got fired from my job. Just couldn't take my ass@#$% manager anymore and finally told him off. He'd hold me up to an hour and a half past my leave time doing busywork before he would count out my register. I'm a teenager who's already on the edge, and he wants to take all my time away.

Well, those two dramatic events got me out of my depression. As it turns out, my friend were really mean to me when I was sitting at the table, I didn't realize it, and in exile, I found nicer friends to sit with, and without a job I had control over my life again.

Cause that's what caused my depression, having no control. Without my car, me parents had to drive me, and on that horrible night, I realized that wasn't reliable. (At this point, and I guess then, I could care less about my family. I guess if it happens again where I'm stranded, and they tell me they won't come like that, I'll just walk to a friends house or something. Maybe I'll begin an epic Roadtrip.) School's worse, you do everything by bell. Hell, you here the bell you have the urge to get up. They program you, and give you no freedom, from the point that you enter the bus, to the point you get off the bus, they have total control over you. Work's even worse, and that Cash Register thing proved how much they could control me; I won't work at a place where they make me wait to count out my register again. Outside of that, I have nothing, but this place.

And I don't have much say here, either. *points to avatar*

[Bor the Barbarian Monk]

Okay...yesterday's unfortunate debacle introduced a kind of thinking that has never worked for me. If the illness is genuine, "snap out of it" is never, EVER going to work. If it did, I would have done that long ago with my diabetes.

My intent is not to slap anyone down. There are those who suffer a mental break and and can find it within themselves to get up and get on with life. The reality is that I envy such people. Then there are those of us who have a genuine illness that cannot be flipped on and off like a lightswitch.

It's so hard to make someone understand what depression does to me. I become motivated to do absolutely nothing. I hide in my apartment, avoiding human contact as best as possible, and plot my demise. I have written countless suicide notes when I'm at my worst, then go back and read them when I'm better, and they seem like the ravings of an enraged madman. "I will kill myself, and you will suffer because..." Uh huh. In reality, people will be hurt, and then move on with their lives.

My post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) is another one that's hard to get across. My father can't understand how I've become so afraid of people. No joke, people...I require medication to go and see my doctor. I once went without them and had a blood pressure of 164 over 92. I take it an hour or two before I go, and I'm a textbook 120 over 80, if not a slightly more impressive 110 over 70. This medication is an anti-anxiety pill, not for high blood pressure.

These things seem pretty bad, right? Now imagine those who are worse off than I am. Imagine someone who surrenders to the fight, and doesn't make an effort to help themselves at all, let alone others. Imagine the poor soul whose voices shout so loudly that she silences them by leaping into oncoming traffic. Or the athlete so obsessed on making a weight-class that his belemia puts him into a coma. Or the poor depressed person who self-medicates themselves to an overdose.

The sentiment beind "snap out of it" isn't necessarily a bad one. Unfortunately, it's simply not an option for some. It's why we come to this thread. We connect with others in similar circumstances, listen when needed, make helpful suggestions when we can, and often dish out much-needed hugs.

[smellie_hippie]

Okay...yesterday's unfortunate debacle introduced a kind of thinking that has never worked for me. If the illness is genuine, "snap out of it" is never, EVER going to work. If it did, I would have done that long ago with my diabetes.


Not to contradict you my friend, but let me add some other thoughts for those reeling from the shock of it. Snap Out Of It has merit, with conditions...

1. Whoever is telling you to snap out of it has to recognize that they have No Idea what you are actually going through. If your feelings of being smothered/closed off/rejected/hurt/helpless/hopeless are not validated, then someone telling you to snap out of it is just gonna make you snap.

2. Whoever is telling you to snap out of it must also recognize that it is very easy for them to say it, but it's entirely different for you to do it. Doesn't really take rocket science to figure this out, but it's easy to forget that some people are not (maybe never) in a position to just "drop it and move on".

3. Whoever is actually feeling horribly depressed needs to remember that most people are not therapists, but rather "givers of advice". They have no training in clinical assessment, professional empathy, and recognizing the malliability of human emotions. Please remember that when your friends advice to "find someone new" or "just ignore it" drives you even insaner, they are genuinely trying to help...

[Bor the Barbarian Monk]

Not to contradict you my friend, but let me add some other thoughts for those reeling from the shock of it. Snap Out Of It has merit, with conditions...

1. Whoever is telling you to snap out of it has to recognize that they have No Idea what you are actually going through. If your feelings of being smothered/closed off/rejected/hurt/helpless/hopeless are not validated, then someone telling you to snap out of it is just gonna make you snap.

2. Whoever is telling you to snap out of it must also recognize that it is very easy for them to say it, but it's entirely different for you to do it. Doesn't really take rocket science to figure this out, but it's easy to forget that some people are not (maybe never) in a position to just "drop it and move on".

3. Whoever is actually feeling horribly depressed needs to remember that most people are not therapists, but rather "givers of advice". They have no training in clinical assessment, professional empathy, and recognizing the malliability of human emotions. Please remember that when your friends advice to "find someone new" or "just ignore it" drives you even insaner, they are genuinely trying to help...
Heh! Y'know, S-Hip...If you read my post carefully, I start by saying it can never work, and go on to say it might work.

(Bor's clarity of thought is brought to you by Darvacet, "Pain meds for the broken toe in you.")

I also made an effort to defend the sentiment. G-d knows, I wish I really could just "snap out of it." I see inspirational stories all the time, and I can't help but wonder, "How on Earth did they manage to find the courage to go on?"

Just a few days ago, I caught some show on TV about finding the next great band, or something. A three-man band called "Big Toe" came on stage, and while they were mediocre, they still managed to rock. The bass player was amazing! And not because he could pound out an awesome tune...it was because he had NO FREAKIN' ARMS!!! Born without upper limbs, he learned to do everything, and then some, with his feet. With his amazing attitude, I found myself wishing I was him, if only to have a better perspective than my own.

During the audition phase of the show "So You Think You Can Dance," there were several people with varying handicaps who auditioned. One man lost both legs; he impressed the judges, but never made it past the first part. One young woman lost her arm, and the judges found it hard to believe. And then there was this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGvIv7WArho&mode=related&search=

It makes me wonder...Am I weak? Are my handicaps real? How do I dare complain when there are others who have overcome what seems to be more than what I have against me?

*sigh*

I'm gonna go beat myself up some more. Seems to be what I do best these days. :smallfrown:

[Ego Slayer]

Just a few days ago, I caught some show on TV about finding the next great band, or something. A three-man band called "Big Toe" came on stage, and while they were mediocre, they still managed to rock. The bass player was amazing! And not because he could pound out an awesome tune...it was because he had NO FREAKIN' ARMS!!! Born without upper limbs, he learned to do everything, and then some, with his feet. With his amazing attitude, I found myself wishing I was him, if only to have a better perspective than my own.
I saw that also. Quick reminder of how many people with various disabilities (mental and physical) get over the same hurdles I'm terrified of, and seem so optimistic. Hell, the people without disabilities who seem to just skip through life... makes one feel slightly pathetic for having a hard time getting through the day when there are so many others out there who not only get though it, but seem to so easily accomplish things.

[13_CBS]

It makes me wonder...Am I weak? Are my handicaps real? How do I dare complain when there are others who have overcome what seems to be more than what I have against me?

*sigh*

I'm gonna go beat myself up some more. Seems to be what I do best these days. :smallfrown:

You can dare to complain because you are not them. Some people simply don't mind their troubles as much, others mind them more.

Who knows? Another person with all of your troubles might have cracked long ago and is now six feet under. I probably would have.

[CurlyKitGirl]

Just a few days ago, I caught some show on TV about finding the next great band, or something. A three-man band called "Big Toe" came on stage, and while they were mediocre, they still managed to rock. The bass player was amazing! And not because he could pound out an awesome tune...it was because he had NO FREAKIN' ARMS!!! Born without upper limbs, he learned to do everything, and then some, with his feet. With his amazing attitude, I found myself wishing I was him, if only to have a better perspective than my own.
<snippage>
It makes me wonder...Am I weak? Are my handicaps real? How do I dare complain when there are others who have overcome what seems to be more than what I have against me?

I'm gonna go beat myself up some more. Seems to be what I do best these days. :smallfrown:

Bor, veryone has their own disabilities. I know because my brother is moderate autistic, my mum has severe thyroid prolems; I could go on.
The thing is you may have a weak body, medically speaking; but the body is a shell. You GET OVER your own problems to help others; you Bor, are not weak, and you help people every day. People you have nver seen and probably never will. To you they're just friends or just people who need help.
Bor. You're a super-hero. Where do you go if you need some help with problems? Bor.
Who will ignore his own heavy personal problems to help the needy? Bor.
You save people over and over. Superman does live. True, he's not a caped crusader but you earnestly help people because you feel for them You have wuite likely been through more than any ten forumites and you will still help people. If they ever run Angelitp you'll win hands down.

And now onto less inspiring stuff: At this point in time my social, academic and creative worlds are crashing down about my ears. I'm on the verge of giving up writing, my Rainbows (and I love all those girls) and everything important to me. This has happened occaisionally but never this strong or continous. I actually have to fight to get out of bed and take an interet in everything now.
I feel like my family has reached that point where I'm just baggage and can be disposed of easily, and I'm beginning to wonder if they're right. I haven't got a job, I can't help out around the house, my parents load me with gulit because I go to colege and (in my reasoning) have zero time to do chores or help out like I used to.
I'm feeling like they're right. Not only that; but due to some indefinable quality, all my friends confide EVERY detail about their problems with their family and love life and friends. This I can handle, but I am now my mum and dad's confidante without them knowing I'm also the other ones as wel. So I now know every little probelm in our family and up and coming ones involving money, and pretty much anything.
Am I of any use to anyone? is all I ever think. Even though I know I am. It's gotten so bad I can't think myself out of these depths any more.

[Bor the Barbarian Monk]

Am I of any use to anyone?

Bor, veryone has their own disabilities. I know because my brother is moderate autistic, my mum has severe thyroid prolems; I could go on.
The thing is you may have a weak body, medically speaking; but the body is a shell. You GET OVER your own problems to help others; you Bor, are not weak, and you help people every day. People you have nver seen and probably never will. To you they're just friends or just people who need help.
Bor. You're a super-hero. Where do you go if you need some help with problems? Bor.
Who will ignore his own heavy personal problems to help the needy? Bor.
You save people over and over. Superman does live. True, he's not a caped crusader but you earnestly help people because you feel for them You have wuite likely been through more than any ten forumites and you will still help people. If they ever run Angelitp you'll win hands down.

*snip*
Rearranged some of that for ya to answer your own question. :smallwink:

CKG, from what I can tell, you are young and in the midst of a particularly chaotic part of life. There is an aspect of employment that does not apply to schooling. When you have a job, you leave your work at the door when you exit and pick it up again the next day. School is an all-day affair that you must also bring home to continue the work. Then you try to juggle your regular responsibilities, social life, and all other aspects of existence. It can easily become too much.

The only person who knows you well enough is yourself. Set your limits, then politely ask everyone in your life to conform so that you don't explode.

Being the nice, helpful guy that I try to be, my neighbors know they can come to me if they need an ear. Physical tasks are hard for me, although I have willingly made market runs for those who cannot move at all. But to all who know me, they have received these words: "There is one rule I must ask you to adibe by, and that's that if my blinds are closed, I'm either asleep or simply want my privacy. If it's an emergency, you can knock. Otherwise, when the blinds are closed, I ask that you come around another time."

This is merely an example. Different circumstances dictate different boundaries and different tactics to set your limits. My very first visit to my father in FL began with me scanning the bookshelves in the guest room. I came out shortly, holding a particular volume and saying, "I want to thank you for making this stay particularly awkward from the start." (The book was entitled, Sex After 50. :smalleek: )

Not sure I'm getting this idea across properly, as my foot hurts quite a bit, and those damnable meds are fogging my head.

Politely but firmly, let people know what your limits are. Then, as you discover if you can expand those limits, let others know you are readily available. Right now, you're trying to focus on everything, which results on you focusing on nothing. Only you can organize your life.

Meanwhile, thanks for the ego boost. As soon as I find my ego, I'll be sure to let it know what you said. :smallredface:

[TigerHunter]

Update: it's over, and I'm in the clear.
Yay. :smallsmile:

[SurlySeraph]

It makes me wonder...Am I weak? Are my handicaps real? How do I dare complain when there are others who have overcome what seems to be more than what I have against me?

*sigh*

I'm gonna go beat myself up some more. Seems to be what I do best these days. :smallfrown:

Bor, that's the kind of thinking that'll get you into trouble. Yes, there are people whose problems are worse than yours. That doesn't mean your problems aren't bad. Besides, different people can cope with their problems to different extents. I'm a mediocre wrestler because I have trouble putting in the effort and maintaining my will to keep fighting. Every Olympic wrestler started out just as weak as I am, they just devoted themself to improving enough to become perfect at wrestling instead of spending some time on wrestling and more time on getting good grades. You spend a huge amount of your time being kind to other people and giving them advice. That's what you've put the most effort into, that's what you're best at. Helping everyone around you is a hell of a lot harder than learning to dance without legs; you have to try all the time, it's an ongoing process, it doesn't just click all of a sudden. But the fact that you help people instead of lying around complaining proves that you're a hell of a lot stronger than you give yourself credit for.

@ TigerHunter: Good! Anything else you need to worry about, or is that it for now?

@ CurlyKitGirl: If everyone is confiding stuff to you, that means they think you're trustworthy and give good advice. That means you're definitely worth something to them. I've been in that situation a lot of times, where people are confiding in me and I wonder whether I'm worthy of their trust. Just keep listening; that's all they really need, and it helps them do their own work. Making people want to keep going is just as useful as doing work yourself. If If you're at college, you're being useful even if you don't get a job or do chores. Learning is a bit like sleeping: it takes a little time, but it makes you a lot more useful later.

[TigerHunter]

@ TigerHunter: Good! Anything else you need to worry about, or is that it for now?
That's it. Thankfully. And I've never felt better. :smallsmile:
Hopefully things'll stay that way.

[Sisqui]

Warning! Excessive verbiage ahead! (Those of you familiar with my posts know this is a genuine public service announcement:smallbiggrin: )



My intent is not to slap anyone down. There are those who suffer a mental break and and can find it within themselves to get up and get on with life. The reality is that I envy such people. Then there are those of us who have a genuine illness that cannot be flipped on and off like a lightswitch.

Bor, with all due respect, I have to take issue with this (:smallsmile: ). I think that this attitude towards overcoming depression does more harm than good. People don't "flip it on/off like a lightswitch." Those peole who learn to pick themselves up and deal with life, those who learn to LIVE it, do so at great personal cost. That effort should not be trivialized in such a way. Sucking it up and moving on with your life is, IMHO, the harder course. And while there are diseases which can be verified by medical testing, most depressive episodes can't. And yet, there is a seemingly endless stream of "healthcare professionals" who think that the only solution to the microwave generation's internal angst comes out of a bottle. And when people follow that advice, they just pop a pill and wait to start feeling better. And it doesn't happen. They do exactly what they did before: sit alone in their rooms raging at the heavens that the limit of their existence is their own four walls- when it is they who confine themselves to them. My point in an earlier post is simply this: no one, no pill, can save you unless you are first willing to save yourself. That may (and I give only grudging acceptance to that) include pharmaceutical help. But that alone is not enough. You might need a crutch to get up and get moving, but that pill by itself isn't going to get you very far. And lots of people use pills and therapists as blinds to shield themselves from the reality that only hard work is going to change things. People try the pills to say they've tried, putting the entire burden of success on the medication, and doctors are usually only too happy to allow them to do so. But, I will tell you, it is possible to define success in such a way that the only possible result is failure and this pill-popping mentality truly is one way of doing that. It gives the illusion of having tried without actually having done so. And that will inevitably result in a failure that is bad enough in and of itself, but that compounds itself by reinforcing the subconcious assumption that success is not possible at all.

But I do acknowledge that there are severe mental illnesses for which medication is the only alternative. Bipolar disorder, schizophrenias, etc... must be treated with meds. But generic, run of the mill depression, which most people go through at some point, need not be treated with meds so often. It would be better by far for people to learn adequate coping skills instead.


It's so hard to make someone understand what depression does to me. I become motivated to do absolutely nothing. I hide in my apartment, avoiding human contact as best as possible, and plot my demise. I have written countless suicide notes when I'm at my worst, then go back and read them when I'm better, and they seem like the ravings of an enraged madman. "I will kill myself, and you will suffer because..." Uh huh. In reality, people will be hurt, and then move on with their lives.

My post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) is another one that's hard to get across. My father can't understand how I've become so afraid of people. No joke, people...I require medication to go and see my doctor. I once went without them and had a blood pressure of 164 over 92. I take it an hour or two before I go, and I'm a textbook 120 over 80, if not a slightly more impressive 110 over 70. This medication is an anti-anxiety pill, not for high blood pressure.

Not knowing you personally, I would not presume to tell you what therapy might be necessary to deal with this, but it might be better to take the anti-anxiety medication while at the same time trying to find the SOURCE of the anxiety and confront it. If you could face it, and face it down, that might be more constructive than the behavior you just mentioned. And I know that you know that type of behavior you describe acts as a positive feedback loop- infinitely reinforcing itself.


These things seem pretty bad, right?

Actually, to me, that doesn't seem so bad. Maybe not so good, but definitely not impossible to overcome. I have great faith in a person's ability to heal themselves if they believe that they can and if they make the determination that they WILL. Not of the diabetes, certainly, but the other stuff, yes. And I mean that in the most encouraging and uplifting way possible.:smallsmile:


Now imagine those who are worse off than I am. Imagine someone who surrenders to the fight, and doesn't make an effort to help themselves at all, let alone others. Imagine the poor soul whose voices shout so loudly that she silences them by leaping into oncoming traffic. Or the athlete so obsessed on making a weight-class that his belemia puts him into a coma. Or the poor depressed person who self-medicates themselves to an overdose.

Clearly these people need help of some sort. Hearing voices requires meds. But the bulimia and depression need more than that. They need a commitment to change. However helpful they might find a pill to be in dealing with the problem, it will not solve the problem. Getting at the root cause of their low self-esteem and taking action to correct it will do that.


The sentiment beind "snap out of it" isn't necessarily a bad one. Unfortunately, it's simply not an option for some. It's why we come to this thread. We connect with others in similar circumstances, listen when needed, make helpful suggestions when we can, and often dish out much-needed hugs.

I would hope that listening to the stories of those who have survived it-not just those who have continued to exist, but who have survived and thrived- would be part of what causes people to "snap out of it" as you say. Hearing positive stories, and knowing that you absolutely CAN do it, should encourage people to try. To really, really try which requires so much more than just taking meds.

I hope you see this in the spirit it was meant, not as an attack but as a counter to your arguments. I don't think the meds are useless, I just think that the heavy lifting of genuine recovery is done by the person, not the pill. For some people the hardest thing to do in life is grant themselves permission to actually live it.:smallsmile:

[Tom_Violence]

I finally realized there is no one who can make your life better for you.

Not entirely true, as anyone that has suffered a broken bone can no doubt attest to. :smalltongue: Flippant, yes, but an important point. There exist mental health issues that are simply not within the realms of things that the suffer can deal with on their own. Willpower is an amazing thing, but it does not conquer all.


No, I get what he was saying. I have been depressed before, a two week slump where I was on the verge of tears and in a cloud where all I could do is write horrible poetry about how cold and dark the world is.

I don't mean to sound condescending, but 2 weeks isn't necessarily too much to worry about. A lot of people suffer from short-term depressions, lasting up to around six months ish. I don't know if everyone suffers from the poetry though. :smalltongue:


Cause that's what caused my depression, having no control. Without my car, me parents had to drive me, and on that horrible night, I realized that wasn't reliable. (At this point, and I guess then, I could care less about my family. I guess if it happens again where I'm stranded, and they tell me they won't come like that, I'll just walk to a friends house or something. Maybe I'll begin an epic Roadtrip.) School's worse, you do everything by bell. Hell, you here the bell you have the urge to get up. They program you, and give you no freedom, from the point that you enter the bus, to the point you get off the bus, they have total control over you. Work's even worse, and that Cash Register thing proved how much they could control me; I won't work at a place where they make me wait to count out my register again. Outside of that, I have nothing, but this place.

A lack of feeling in control is certainly a major influence on many an ill mood. Thankfully though, there are often steps that can be taken to deal with it, either actually, or cognitively. Something interests me about the school situation though. While I fully sympathise with your situation (my brother is the exact same way, he cannot stand to not be his own boss), most people are able to grin and bear it. Its not forever, its just something that has to be got through and dealt with. Why do you think that is? My initial impression is that your way of thinking about it may be quite significant - one phrase that sticks out is "They program you...they have total control over you." I went to a school stricter than most, yet never did I feel this way. I always knew the things that I could do for myself, and the things that were out of my control (and there are always things out of your control). Perhaps try indentifying things that you do have some power over, and moving to get something positive out of that.

Completely unrelated to anything: a danger occurs to me - with a thread devoted to people talking about their problems, and given the strength of some of these problems, I can't help but wonder what the effect on those with relatively minor ailments is. It doesn't stirke me as implausible that one might exaggerate one's situation (consciously or otherwise) in order to make it able to attract the attention of the audience here, for which there is much competition. Perhaps there is something self-perpetuating about these things afterall. I'm not saying a place like this is inherently bad. Just that a great deal of caution needs to be observed. Ask yourself - do you really think that people who don't know you can help you with your problems given a mere smattering of information? This place, while potentially good, is no real substitute for genuine professional help. I just feel that is something that needs to be stressed.

[Sisqui]

Not entirely true, as anyone that has suffered a broken bone can no doubt attest to. :smalltongue: Flippant, yes, but an important point. There exist mental health issues that are simply not within the realms of things that the suffer can deal with on their own. Willpower is an amazing thing, but it does not conquer all.


Psst.......see my later post :smallwink:


Ask yourself - do you really think that people who don't know you can help you with your problems given a mere smattering of information? This place, while potentially good, is no real substitute for genuine professional help. I just feel that is something that needs to be stressed.

Which is exactly what just about everyone here does say. :smalltongue:

[13_CBS]

This place, while potentially good, is no real substitute for genuine professional help. I just feel that is something that needs to be stressed.

That's true, but some of us can't afford it or, in my case, feel uneasy about seeking such.

[Sisqui]

That's true, but some of us can't afford it or, in my case, feel uneasy about seeking such.

I don't know if this applies to your reasons for being uneasy or not but one thing I have noticed is that people will put their doctors in the dominant role in their relationship. They seem to assume that the doctor is in control and then they take this pill and change that habit etc... based on what the doctors say. But a doctor is a private contractor. YOU have hired HIM. He is the employee. Seeing the relationship that way can be very empowering in that you get to be much less shy about asserting yourself. After all, you are the one footing the bill. If you don't like the quality of the work or his personality- FIRE HIM!

[sheepofoblivion]

I haven't read most of the posts on this thread, but I'm pretty sure that I'll fit into this one, (being the depressed person I am) (even if my signature does have a smiley at the end)

[StickMan]

Anyone have any good advice for someone in a huge sophomore slump. I should be working on a paper tonight instead I think I just came out with an all time posts in one day record for myself. I've been like this all year.

I'm not sure if the sophomore slump is worth of this thread but if anyone has advice, I would applicate it.

Stickman

(Just looked I posted 16 times today my norm is like 2-4)

[Sisqui]

I haven't read most of the posts on this thread, but I'm pretty sure that I'll fit into this one, (being the depressed person I am) (even if my signature does have a smiley at the end)

Actually, with that sig, I'm sure you'll fit in perfectly :smallbiggrin:


Anyone have any good advice for someone in a huge sophomore slump. I should be working on a paper tonight instead I think I just came out with an all time posts in one day record for myself. I've been like this all year.

I'm not sure if the sophomore slump is worth of this thread but if anyone has advice, I would applicate it.

Stickman

Is your slump due to boredom, overwork, stress, or lack of a significant other. Inquiring minds and all. Plus, it helps to know a little about the root cause of the problem. :smallsmile:

[Tom_Violence]

Psst.......see my later post :smallwink:



Which is exactly what just about everyone here does say. :smalltongue:

Yes, indeed. I spotted your post just after that magical 'Send' button was pressed. However, even so I think you oversimplify things. I understand this is probably a huge tangent from the rest of the thread, so I shall continue the spoiler way.

You mention that things like bulimia need an action of will to improve. Now, either this is totally trivial (even a schizophrenic needs to actually take his drugs, even a cancer patient needs to actually go to chemotherapy, etc.), or it still may not necessarily be the case. Bulimia is a terribly complex condition, and it is entirely possible for there to be sufferers out there for whom no amount, literally no amount of good will and strength of mind will help their condition on its own. For these people, drugs may well be essential. And once this possibility is understood, it becomes conceivable that there are people for whom, with the right drugs, the rest becomes easy.

Basically, what I'm trying to stress is that there's no singular theory, no singular cause, for these conditions, so no matter what you're looking at to say definitively "drugs are not enough" seems almost callous to me, as there will be people that need the drugs. There's also a certain unfalsifiability to the idea that if drugs alone don't help then clearly the individual isn't trying hard enough. One conclusion I often see scarily drawn from this is that if someone needs drugs then they're also not trying hard enough. I guess if I had to boil this down to a core issue, it would be: "if you remove drugs (and all the biology that comes with that), cognitive-behaviour therapy, etc., what is this 'force of will' that we're left with?" I understand that one needs to not expect a passive approach to getting better to work, but beyond saying "go to a professional, and listen to them" I don't see what more there is to it. Of course that just opens up the can of worms of how capable someone really is of seeking help if they have a serious condition... Oh dear. :smalltongue:

Anyway, I also think that my second point still stands though that a thread for collects woes can indeed encourage them.

[Sisqui]

Yes, indeed. I spotted your post just after that magical 'Send' button was pressed. However, even so I think you oversimplify things. I understand this is probably a huge tangent from the rest of the thread, so I shall continue the spoiler way.

You mention that things like bulimia need an action of will to improve. Now, either this is totally trivial (even a schizophrenic needs to actually take his drugs, even a cancer patient needs to actually go to chemotherapy, etc.), or it still may not necessarily be the case. Bulimia is a terribly complex condition, and it is entirely possible for there to be sufferers out there for whom no amount, literally no amount of good will and strength of mind will help their condition on its own. For these people, drugs may well be essential. And once this possibility is understood, it becomes conceivable that there are people for whom, with the right drugs, the rest becomes easy.

Clearly these people need help of some sort. Hearing voices requires meds. But the bulimia and depression need more than that. They need a commitment to change. However helpful they might find a pill to be in dealing with the problem, it will not solve the problem. Getting at the root cause of their low self-esteem and taking action to correct it will do that.

Basically, what I'm trying to stress is that there's no singular theory, no singular cause, for these conditions, so no matter what you're looking at to say definitively "drugs are not enough" seems almost callous to me, as there will be people that need the drugs.

I don't think the meds are useless, I just think that the heavy lifting of genuine recovery is done by the person, not the pill. For some people the hardest thing to do in life is grant themselves permission to actually live it.

There's also a certain unfalsifiability to the idea that if drugs alone don't help then clearly the individual isn't trying hard enough. One conclusion I often see scarily drawn from this is that if someone needs drugs then they're also not trying hard enough. I guess if I had to boil this down to a core issue, it would be: "if you remove drugs (and all the biology that comes with that), cognitive-behaviour therapy, etc., what is this 'force of will' that we're left with?" I understand that one needs to not expect a passive approach to getting better to work, but beyond saying "go to a professional, and listen to them" I don't see what more there is to it. Of course that just opens up the can of worms of how capable someone really is of seeking help if they have a serious condition... Oh dear. :smalltongue:

Anyway, I also think that my second point still stands though that a thread for collects woes can indeed encourage them.

You know, I went looking for an article yesterday (in relation to this thread, no less) that I read awhile back that stated the same thing. It said people who got therapy or went to group therapy actually took longer to recover than people who dealt with their problems themselves. I just couldn't find it :smallfrown:

EDIT:AHEM, as to the content of the spoiler, open it in my post to read my reposts from what was in my spoiler above. :smallamused:

[sheepofoblivion]

... I wonder what part of me will cut myself more, the drow part, or the sheep from oblivion...

[Sisqui]

... I wonder what part of me will cut myself more, the drow part, or the sheep from oblivion...

What? :smallconfused:

[wadledo]

What? :smallconfused:

I think he still thinks this is part of the joke.

[Sisqui]

I think he still thinks this is part of the joke.

What joke? :smallconfused: I must have missed that part.......

[wadledo]

What joke? :smallconfused: I must have missed that part.......

Most of this forum is humorous, and he thinks this paticular thread is supposed to be funny.

[Sisqui]

Most of this forum is humorous, and he thinks this paticular thread is supposed to be funny.

LOL, I wonder what part of "The Depression Thread" would give someone that idea?

[sheepofoblivion]

... It's common knowledge in my school that many "emo or depressed people" cut themselves... Sort of an inside my school joke thing... a ma bob....

[Sisqui]

... It's common knowledge in my school that many "emo or depressed people" cut themselves... Sort of an inside my school joke thing... a ma bob....

Well, based on the question then, I would guess you either need to more carefully consider how that joke would go over in the particular thread you're in- or you genuinely need serious help. Which is it? :smallconfused:

[sheepofoblivion]

who knows.... Maybe I do need some help... (ask my (imaginary) friends, they'll probably agree *cuts self)

[Sisqui]

who knows.... Maybe I do need some help... (ask my (imaginary) friends, they'll probably agree *cuts self)

If that is a legitimate statement, there is no maybe about it. I ask you again. Which is it?

[sheepofoblivion]

... .... Sure... the first one... It was supposed to be a (if lame or unfitting (is that a word?) ) joke.... I do not actually cut myself and may be a bit on the pessemistic side, but probably not depressed (seriously).

[averagejoe]

Yes, indeed. I spotted your post just after that magical 'Send' button was pressed. However, even so I think you oversimplify things. I understand this is probably a huge tangent from the rest of the thread, so I shall continue the spoiler way.

You mention that things like bulimia need an action of will to improve. Now, either this is totally trivial (even a schizophrenic needs to actually take his drugs, even a cancer patient needs to actually go to chemotherapy, etc.), or it still may not necessarily be the case. Bulimia is a terribly complex condition, and it is entirely possible for there to be sufferers out there for whom no amount, literally no amount of good will and strength of mind will help their condition on its own. For these people, drugs may well be essential. And once this possibility is understood, it becomes conceivable that there are people for whom, with the right drugs, the rest becomes easy.

Basically, what I'm trying to stress is that there's no singular theory, no singular cause, for these conditions, so no matter what you're looking at to say definitively "drugs are not enough" seems almost callous to me, as there will be people that need the drugs. There's also a certain unfalsifiability to the idea that if drugs alone don't help then clearly the individual isn't trying hard enough. One conclusion I often see scarily drawn from this is that if someone needs drugs then they're also not trying hard enough. I guess if I had to boil this down to a core issue, it would be: "if you remove drugs (and all the biology that comes with that), cognitive-behaviour therapy, etc., what is this 'force of will' that we're left with?" I understand that one needs to not expect a passive approach to getting better to work, but beyond saying "go to a professional, and listen to them" I don't see what more there is to it. Of course that just opens up the can of worms of how capable someone really is of seeking help if they have a serious condition... Oh dear. :smalltongue:

Anyway, I also think that my second point still stands though that a thread for collects woes can indeed encourage them.

I don't think that's what she was saying at all. It isn't that meds are never the right thing, but it's that personal initiative matters a lot. In fact, I find that's true in general. Something I hear all the time is, "The secret to X is Y," but the truth is that there is no secret to doing anything. Sure, you can get some useful advice and helpful hints, but in the end you have to just grit your teeth and do it.

For a few years (or so) I was pretty depressed. I would sit in my room for hours on end trying to work up the courage to just give one of my friends a call, and I would never seem to go through with it. I would want to be with someone else so bad, just to hang out and talk and do normal stuff, because that made it hurt less, but I could never seem to do it. I'm much better now, but I still have nights where I won't go outside my apartment even to eat, just because I don't want to run into anyone who will recognise me. Heck, I never even talked about this to anyone until after the fact; most people who know me were suprised to find out.

There are some days where I feel like I could take on the world. There are some days where I feel like I could take on the world, that I have the world in my palm, and that all I have to do is close my fingers around it, but I won't for whatever stupid mental reason. The thing is, however, that for me to get out of my depression, I had to realize that there would be no one besides me bailing me out. Even when I realized that it wasn't easy; sometimes I still have trouble initiating contact with people. Change for the better is most often slow, painful, and hard-just ask anyone who has tried to loose weight. However, the responsibility ultimately rests with the person trying to make the change.

There's something an old teacher of mine used to say. I didn't used to think it was true, but as I've grown I've come to think that maybe it is. He would say, "You know what the difference is between a good excuse and a bad one? There is none." I'm not saying that meds never help. Indeed, I sometimes wonder if my own climb out of depression might have been easier with medication. However, it is up to the person to take the next step. I'm not saying that anyone who is taking meds isn't trying hard enough. All I'm saying is that, "I cannot do this," is a much less healthy attitude than, "I can, and will, do this. Now let's figure out how." Whenever someone tells me that I can't do something, my answer is invariably, "**** you, I can do anything I want if I choose to." (Well, I'm never that rude to people in real life...) I'm not saying that this is "the secret" to good mental health. However, I'd bet that such an attitude is at least as helpful as most medication.

[Serpentine]

I don't know if this applies to your reasons for being uneasy or not but one thing I have noticed is that people will put their doctors in the dominant role in their relationship. They seem to assume that the doctor is in control and then they take this pill and change that habit etc... based on what the doctors say. But a doctor is a private contractor. YOU have hired HIM. He is the employee. Seeing the relationship that way can be very empowering in that you get to be much less shy about asserting yourself. After all, you are the one footing the bill. If you don't like the quality of the work or his personality- FIRE HIM!
To be fair, a doctor can only advise based on what you tell her, too. Take my grandmother, for example. Near the end of her life, she was in extraordinary pain. She was only ever eating when meals on wheels turned up, and that wasn't every day. Various members of the family were furious at her doctor for not looking after her properly, so my aunt finally accompanied her to her appointment. It went like this:
Doc: So how have you been?
Gramma: Oh, okay...
Aunt: WHAT?! Mum, you've been in agony!

So yeah. If you don't tell your doctor exactly how you're depressed, she can't help your depression. If you don't tell her that you're uncomfortable with relying on medication, she can't advise you on other options. If you don't tell her the effects of the medication on you, she can't consider whether to change you. If you don't tell her, she doesn't know, and she can't treat you properly.

[13_CBS]

Heh, whaddya know. I try to get back on my feet and cheer myself up, but life decides to remind me of how much I suck.

"Ok, punk, you're not going to cheer up. Not on our watch."

Edit: Rofl, if I didn't know any better I could almost whine about how a greater power seems to want to keep me depressed. :smallbiggrin: :smallannoyed:

[Sisqui]

Heh, whaddya know. I try to get back on my feet and cheer myself up, but life decides to remind me of how much I suck.

"Ok, punk, you're not going to cheer up. Not on our watch."

Edit: Rofl, if I didn't know any better I could almost whine about how a greater power seems to want to keep me depressed. :smallbiggrin: :smallannoyed:

All I can say to that post is: :confused:


To be fair, a doctor can only advise based on what you tell her, too. Take my grandmother, for example. Near the end of her life, she was in extraordinary pain. She was only ever eating when meals on wheels turned up, and that wasn't every day. Various members of the family were furious at her doctor for not looking after her properly, so my aunt finally accompanied her to her appointment. It went like this:
Doc: So how have you been?
Gramma: Oh, okay...
Aunt: WHAT?! Mum, you've been in agony!

So yeah. If you don't tell your doctor exactly how you're depressed, she can't help your depression. If you don't tell her that you're uncomfortable with relying on medication, she can't advise you on other options. If you don't tell her the effects of the medication on you, she can't consider whether to change you. If you don't tell her, she doesn't know, and she can't treat you properly.

Actually, this goes along with what I was saying about depression and with my later post you quoted. You have to take the initiative- you have to take charge of your health. It is YOUR responsibility. The doctor is an advisor, YOU are the decider. And if you don't get assertive, if you just sit there and do whatever the doctor tells you (or worse, if you feel like telling your doctor what is wrong is just whining and wasting his time) YOU WON'T GET BETTER! And it won't be the doctor's fault. YOU have to get a doctor you are comfortable with. YOU have to get a doctor who will listen to your complaints. YOU have to get a doctor who doesn't make you feel as if you are a petitioner begging for his attention within the confines of his own private sanctum. Whether it is your depression or some other aspect of your health, you can't just tell your MD "Well, whatever you decide" as if HE is the one with the most interest in the outcome of the decision. And most of all, you have to accept that you have the RIGHT to demand these things. If your doctor doesn't measure up- like I said, fire him. You don't need a second rate employee deciding your health issues for you. But, that comes with a caveat: if you take back the decision making power that is rightfully your own- YOU are the one ultimately responsible. You aren't going to hurt the doctor any by keeping your medical complaints to yourself. YOU are the one who will suffer for it. You wouldn't want an electrician rewiring your house unless he knew all the pertinent facts. You shouldn't want your doctor medicating you with less than full disclosure on your part either. That is YOUR responsibility.

[13_CBS]

Confusing post, eh? The gist is this: I've taken some of the advice given here and so I've tried to not be so glum. But today and yesterday just...put me in a very bad mood again.

I think another of my recent emotional issues stem from my long run of complete lack of self esteem. Events from yesterday and today only reinforced it.

And the fact that I have no friends anymore is probably doing me a number, as well.

[Don Julio Anejo]

Woo! I'm doing a specialized training course for helping people who are thinking and/or are about to commit suicide in about 2 weeks! Should be good...

[Rex Idiotarum]

Everyone I have ever considered a good friend has turned their back on me.

I never thought that until you did as well.

I don't care anymore, I'll go back to hating everyone, to being cynical, bitter, and evil. And if you wanted to kill whatever part of me that cared. Well, then good for you. I guess I'm not meant to have friends.

It's the same thing now that happened that day.

Already depressed, that girl yelling at me, screaming that everyone hates me, that no one will ever like me. Pressured by the crowd, my "Friends" backed her up. Well what does it matter?

I tried being friendly, it gets me stepped on. If I'm doing this from now on, it will be by my way, or I'll just face exile. I'd rather have hatred and mistrust, than the crushing sound my soul makes upon you dropping me like a hot potato because someone from the popular crowd doesn't like me. That's the thing I loved you, you were above the crowd, you did things in your own way, what changed? A few words from a silver tongue, and suddenly I'm the enemy. And the moment someone does to them what they did to you, then who will be left?

It's always the same thing, I've seen it a million times, when someone I considered a friend betrayed me, just so that they could get into the "Cool" crowd.

I am angry, I am kind of sad, but, can I say I'm surprised? No. It's the story of my life.

[Siligero]

Depression? Well, I can't say I'm depressed, but more like in a furious angry rage. Because people are stupid. Reeeeeally stupid. More stupid than I can even imagine. No, literally. I cannot fathom the depths of mental futility plumbed by the denizens of this earth. It drives me to insanity. Failing that, it drives me to a ridiculous cynicality that mutes all hope for the human race. It's like over half of the population is devolving mentally, but unable to adapt physically, leaving useless beings with no way to survive other than to utilize a small metal square to flip the patty of their lower middle class lives, just to serve the fruit of their labors to other obese, unintelligent, too-lazy-to-perform-menial-tasks citizens exactly like them. I mean, I know I'm exaggerating, but when less than 3% of people the United States of America even read books on a daily basis (in fact, it's rather disgusting how reading is shunned), you know something's wrong.

[Sisqui]

Depression? Well, I can't say I'm depressed, but more like in a furious angry rage. Because people are stupid. Reeeeeally stupid. More stupid than I can even imagine. No, literally. I cannot fathom the depths of mental futility plumbed by the denizens of this earth. It drives me to insanity. Failing that, it drives me to a ridiculous cynicality that mutes all hope for the human race. It's like over half of the population is devolving mentally, but unable to adapt physically, leaving useless beings with no way to survive other than to utilize a small metal square to flip the patty of their lower middle class lives, just to serve the fruit of their labors to other obese, unintelligent, too-lazy-to-perform-menial-tasks citizens exactly like them. I mean, I know I'm exaggerating, but when less than 3% of people the United States of America even read books on a daily basis (in fact, it's rather disgusting how reading is shunned), you know something's wrong.

Well, is a lesser being such as myself at least allowed to point out that the word is "cynicism"? I mean, I may be stupid, but at least I know that much. Time to go flip my patty again....... :smallannoyed:

[Cyrano]

Depression? Well, I can't say I'm depressed, but more like in a furious angry rage. Because people are stupid. Reeeeeally stupid. More stupid than I can even imagine. No, literally. I cannot fathom the depths of mental futility plumbed by the denizens of this earth. It drives me to insanity. Failing that, it drives me to a ridiculous cynicality that mutes all hope for the human race. It's like over half of the population is devolving mentally, but unable to adapt physically, leaving useless beings with no way to survive other than to utilize a small metal square to flip the patty of their lower middle class lives, just to serve the fruit of their labors to other obese, unintelligent, too-lazy-to-perform-menial-tasks citizens exactly like them. I mean, I know I'm exaggerating, but when less than 3% of people the United States of America even read books on a daily basis (in fact, it's rather disgusting how reading is shunned), you know something's wrong.

I agree! I mean, seriously, most people everywhere are stupid. Like, 95% of everyone I know is stupid. And most of the people I don't.
Wait.
95%. Those aren't good odds. Especially since Sisqui already posted here.
So.... why am I listening to you?
Possibly because you're misguided. And your facts are wrong. Honestly, I understand you're venting and being over the top, but even you can see the economy does not rest on beef patties and processing. I'm not a psychiatrist or even a nice guy, so I'm not going to attempt to guide you through whatever made you spit this stream of bile at the world, but please at least attempt not to exagerate quite so heavily. Or nastily.

[Rex Idiotarum]

You wanna find some iffy people, chill at a community college. I mean, I have had brilliant conversations with older students and teachers, but other times, I've had conversations which kinda shut me off of them. Biggest conversational turnoff for me is to state something that is completely obvious to me as if it were something extraordinary.

Still, I would have you refrain from that talk about patty flipping. having worked at a few fast food restaurants myself, I can tell you that the people flipping patties are 16 year old high school students or Illegal Aliens, both of which work there because they have no where else to turn. Try to get a whitecollar job when you can barely speak English. Even then, they work 40 hour weeks, and then they have a second 40 hour week as well.

People aren't stupid. I say this fully knowing that stupidity is a subjective term. Most people have talents, something that makes them good.

A Cynic is a Pessimist with people. You seem too focused on society's faults, that you fail to realize that there is no society. There is just persons. Talk to a person some time, and your life can be changed forever.

[averagejoe]

You wanna find some iffy people, chill at a community college. I mean, I have had brilliant conversations with older students and teachers, but other times, I've had conversations which kinda shut me off of them. Biggest conversational turnoff for me is to state something that is completely obvious to me as if it were something extraordinary.

I'm curious as to why this is. I've never been considered one of mean intelligence, at least if the people in my life can be believed. Even so, or perhaps because of this, I can find great pleasure in appreciating mundane things which are nonetheless extraordinary. *shrug* Maybe it's because I'm a scientist. We're all a bit mad when it comes to things like this.

[Sisqui]

Actually, Rex, a lot of these "McJobs" as they are called are a necessary part of the economy: low skill, entry level jobs that allow relatively untried and unskilled workers to gain experience before moving onwards and upwards in the work force. These jobs give people, be they new to the market or new to the country, a starting point- a springboard to wherever their working careers take them. They just use these jobs as a way of learning to be on time, how to meet employer expectations, how to learn a work ethic, or even just an opportunity to learn basic English, etc... as well as building a work record that future potential employers can check on before giving them a position. Not too shabby for a "patty flipping" McJob, eh?:smallbiggrin:

[Rex Idiotarum]

You'd think, but I've seen the same people working the same positions for years.

And, you start that off as if you were correcting me, rather than adding to what I was saying. And yeah, I agree with you, don't disrespect someone for their job.

O! Yeah, great news, I finally got a new job. I sort stuff for a Contracting company. They work on big projects all across the nation. I guess, you can have some months that screw you over and others that are awesome. I'm already seeing good stuff going on. I have my own Forum (Still in the works, but it's getting better), a job, what next? Who knows?

[Sisqui]

And, you start that off as if you were correcting me, rather than adding to what I was saying. And yeah, I agree with you, don't disrespect someone for their job.

I was just suggesting that they aren't dead end jobs for people "with nowhere else to turn to". That was the only part I disagreed with.


O! Yeah, great news, I finally got a new job. I sort stuff for a Contracting company. They work on big projects all across the nation. I guess, you can have some months that screw you over and others that are awesome. I'm already seeing good stuff going on. I have my own Forum (Still in the works, but it's getting better), a job, what next? Who knows?

Congrats! :smallbiggrin:

[Volug]

I just need someone to make me happy right now:smallfrown:

...I'd never think I would say that.... I'm always happy...

[Rex Idiotarum]

Damn. I'm on duty? Fine.

You're a good kid, not afraid to stick to unpopular convictions, an admiral trait if any. I say, out with it, what makes you feel bad?

[Volug]

To put simply, I hurt someones feelings without intending to do so. I apoligized... more times then I can count. But it just keeps naging at me. Then someone brings up the stupid subject again and I'm starting to feel really horible... For something I didn't intend to do.

I really hate hurting peoples feelings. It just kills me to see someone un-happy. I like to help people find joy in life and that there are things worth living for. I know people have down days... But I don't want this issue to drag me back down to..... then...

No I'm not going to speak another word about "Then". I hate it more then everything I dispise about this world. I'll leave it at that, and say no more about it.

[SurlySeraph]

To put simply, I hurt someones feelings without intending to do so. I apoligized... more times then I can count. But it just keeps naging at me. Then someone brings up the stupid subject again and I'm starting to feel really horible... For something I didn't intend to do.

I've been in that situation many, many times. Basically all you can do is work on something else. Do something that feels like the right thing to do (that is, something that seems like it benefits yourself or others) for a while and just pour your effort into it. Whether it's homework, work work, reading about something that interests you, or whatever, just do it for hours until you aren't thinking about anything else. Then you'll feel fine.

[Rex Idiotarum]

I don't think she's made you into an enemy, and I doubt she's taken complete offense to it, but it's your choice of words that has people offended. I mean, I wouldn't refer to the Venus De Milo as porn due to the fact that she's topless. Even if it's you're convictions, phrasing should be worked upon.

I guess you should live, learn, and forgive. Even if, as in your case, the hardest person to forgive is yourself.

((I'm on your side, the person should not've brought that up, I would've responded, but I wouldn't want anything that seemed even remotely hostile or could seem or lead to flaming to happen, so I just went to another page.))

[Skippy]

I'm kinda depressed right now, for no good reason. I'm just down.

I hate it when it happens...

[Serpentine]

Masato, if you feel like you insulted someone, and apologised, and were told you were forgiven, noone else has the right to get involved. If you feel like you insulted someone but haven't apologised and feel guilty for not doing so, do so. It will make both of you feel better, and again, it won't be anyone's place to have a go at you for it. I admit I was mildly disturbed by that incident, but (I think) it mostly wasn't directed at me, and if I got a bit riled up at the time it was mostly just rather bemusing, and I'm quite over it now.

[Micate]

Masato, take a moment and think about how they feel. Put yourself in their shoes, and think about how silly your concerns are. They don't care, they've moved on (I assume), and so should you. That's easier said than done, but like Rex said, its a simple matter to distract yourself with something amusing. Just start doing something, keep yourself busy and don't dwell on the problem.

And Skippy, I feel your pain. Random depression sucks. If only internet hugs really worked... *goes to his room to sulk*

[Bor the Barbarian Monk]

To put simply, I hurt someones feelings without intending to do so. I apoligized... more times then I can count. But it just keeps naging at me. Then someone brings up the stupid subject again and I'm starting to feel really horible... For something I didn't intend to do.

I have a Bor story that I am ashamed of, but it serves two purposes. One is that it exemplifies the ability to open one's mouth and insert one's foot up to the knee. The other is to show part of the long journey to become who and what I am today.


*When I was fifteen, I met a girl named Tara. She was newly diagnosed as having leukemia. It was also thought that she might be a diabetic on top of it. Well, these were my fields. Conversations with my mother about the combination of both diseases had occurred when I was younger. Having met Tara, this was a time for me to share my mother’s “professional” thoughts on the matter and demonstrate her versions of understanding and love. While talking with Tara, I quite casually told her that anyone with both diseases was doomed. Death was the only thing that awaited the poor soul thus afflicted. Not once did I consider the impact on this girl. I just went on and on, gabbing away as if I was talking about someone who wasn’t even in the room.

I traumatized that poor kid without even realizing it. She required sedation and therapy thanks to me.

What was I thinking when I shared these golden nuggets of information? Nothing. Not a damn thing. She would ask her questions, and I just opened my mouth and did more damage in a few minutes than a lifetime of abuse could…and all through that conversation, not a single brain cell in my head said, “Don’t tell her that, you moron!”

I was restricted to my room after that, and I wasn’t even permitted to talk to my roommate. With few visitors, it became a lonely stay, but a valuable one. It was the first of many lessons that taught me to think before I opened my big mouth. It would take a few more such lessons for me to fine-tune my mouth and brain, getting them to cooperate in a socially acceptable manner.

Tara and I crossed paths many months later. I asked for special permission to see her, to apologize for my previous act of stupidity. After all but dropping to my knees and kissing her feet and begging for forgiveness, she told me that everything was fine between us. She had forgiven me a long time ago. As it turned out, she wasn’t a diabetic.

I was glad. It would have been a terrible loose end to have hanging in my life. Knowing she’d forgiven me became the most important event of my life when she died. Yes, after the hope that remission brings, the leukemia came back and took her brilliantly lighted soul from our mortal realm. I shed many tears over her passing...
The story includes the lesson. Learn it, Masato, and you can start saving yourself some grief.

*This tale is quoted because it's take from a book in progress called The Suicide Note: Memoirs of an Insulin Dependent Diabetic.

[Volug]

You have no idea how hard it is to reply after I read that >_<

Though I think I still should since it would be really rude if I didn't after reading that.

so uh....
>_>
<_<

Guess it's the fact I'm used to opening my mouth instead of keeping quite. I like to voice my opinions alot with the group of friends I hang out with. Nice people....

Bleh, not my week. Hopefully things will turn better once I show my parents my Tri-mester grade.

[Bor the Barbarian Monk]

Oh, I'm not telling you to shut up. By all means, say what's on your mind. Just take a moment or twelve to think it through before you speak. That's the lesson.

Look, I had it out with a GitPer in PMs while I was not only off my meds, but on a steady flow of narcotic painkillers after surgery. This EXPLAINS my responses, but does not EXCUSE them. You need to train yourself to think before you speak. After a while, the distance between thought and speech gets shorter. Special circumstances exist, such as...

Well, I was going in for surgery. My father and girldriend of the time were on hand. I don;t know what they put in the IV to help me relax, but it definitely took off the filter between my brain and mouth. Thus, from the stretcher, I gave quite a dramatic performance of Rubber Ducky...Shakespearian style:

Foresoothe, Rubber Ducky,
Thou art the one!
Thou dost make bathtime
Loads of fun!
Rubber Ducky, I am awefully fond of thee!

Girlfriend laughed. dad wondered if I shouldn't be admitted to the psych ward after surgery. :smallamused:

[Raiser Blade]

Well, I was going in for surgery. My father and girldriend of the time were on hand. I don;t know what they put in the IV to help me relax, but it definitely took off the filter between my brain and mouth. Thus, from the stretcher, I gave quite a dramatic performance of Rubber Ducky...Shakespearian style:

Foresoothe, Rubber Ducky,
Thou art the one!
Thou dost make bathtime
Loads of fun!
Rubber Ducky, I am awefully fond of thee!

Girlfriend laughed. dad wondered if I shouldn't be admitted to the psych ward after surgery. :smallamused:


I had a painkiller once that did something similar to me. I was just spouting nonsense and talking with myself (using my hand as a puppet) for the whole day. I actually don't remember most of it though. :smalltongue:

[Volug]

Well, got nothing else I want to say. If I say more I'm going to say something that is private... I haven't told anyone about it, and I never will.

I'll leave it at that, now I'm going to make some hot chocolate. It makes everything feel better.:smallsmile:

EDIT: Thanks by the way... Bor, Rex, Serpentine, Micate, and Seraph.

[Hoggy]

*This tale is quoted because it's take from a book in progress called The Suicide Note: Memoirs of an Insulin Dependent Diabetic.

Just thought it was odd that no-one else had commented on this. Be joking, Bor. Please.

[Bor the Barbarian Monk]

Just thought it was odd that no-one else had commented on this. Be joking, Bor. Please.

Not a joke, but a writer using the pieces of his craft to create a shocking title.

The Suicide Note is an autobiographical piece that is:

1. about growing up with diabetes and depression.
2. in a serious re-write phase.
3. about how I likely shaved years from my life by being as dumb a diabetic as I could possibly be.
5. is written as one might expect to find a suicide note, without chapters...but at this time is 90 pages long. Some "note," eh?
4. is not a kindly book that takes you gently by the hand and says, "Hi! You're a diabetic now. Here's what it's about and what you can expect." Instead, it's a smack in the head about what to do and NOT to do.

One of my very first threads was The Diabetic Thread, which faded into the GitP afterlife. You see, I have a bone to pick with diabetes education. They will say such things as, "You could lose a leg if you don't take care of yourself." That's where it stops. They often fail to speak of the step-by-step process of going from healthy to losing a leg. I pull no punches in my story.

Wanna see the opening as it stands now? Here ya go:


Dear Reader,

I don’t envy you this day and the various tasks that lay before you. Few people, if any, are thrilled by the prospect of finding a corpse. If you are reading this note, then I am the very body that lies in front of you. Pass no judgments before you have read this note in its entirety. Things are not always as they appear.

Yes, the pages that you hold in your hands are the makings of a suicide note. Oh, but this isn’t the traditional suicide note, where some unfortunate soul rambles on about his hatred of the world, and those whom he hopes to hurt by ending his life. I’m not about to finish writing this golden nugget of wisdom and intellect, and then end my life. The fact of the matter is that I have no idea how old I’ll be when I finally pass on. I could be forty, my current age, or ninety-nine. My demise is not an event that I have scheduled, so its actual timing remains a mystery to me. What I do know is that my life will end earlier than it should have.

See? No need to panic. Just a writer doing that writing thing, scary though it may seem.

My hope is one day get it published, splitting my royalties so that a portion goes to the Juvenile Diabetes Foundation (JDF). :smallsmile:

[Hoggy]

Well that's good... good? Better, maybe... yes. That's better, then. :smalltongue:

[Cyrano]

Bor, if you die, I will personally stop all of your medication, just to kill you myself.
So, yeah. Don't. But DO write a bestseller that makes you millions and allows you to get on with your amazingly philanthropic life. Wait, does philanthropic mean what I think it does?
EDIT: Yes.

[ArlEammon]

Being raped was certainly not a pleasant experience. I, am still afraid of both genders, ecspecially when there is more than one of a specific gender anywhere near me. Of course, you can tell that I am not having a pleasant time being in public. Being in public so often is so humiliating. I feel like I'm in a brothel no matter where I go.

My first sexual assault was at age six, to a gang of five teenage boys.

[Bor the Barbarian Monk]

Being raped was certainly not a pleasant experience. I, am still afraid of both genders, ecspecially when there is more than one of a specific gender anywhere near me. Of course, you can tell that I am not having a pleasant time being in public. Being in public so often is so humiliating. I feel like I'm in a brothel no matter where I go.

My first sexual assault was at age six, to a gang of five teenage boys.

Armin, what you have is PTSD - Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. While I would love to say that there's some miracle cure out there that can be found on the shelves of your local market, I'm afraid you're going to have to address this with a doctor.

I know, because I have PTSD as well. I was assaulted by my drunken roommate around 2:30 AM, on July 2, 2002, while I slept. Combine this with several other events in my life, and I have now become terrified of loud noises, as well as simply going out my front door. It's not aggoraphobia, which is a fear of open spaces. It's an irrational fear that EVERYONE outside my home is willing to commit an act of violence against me.

I'll give you an example of my fear response. While out for a walk, a cyclist was kind enough to shout a warning that he was coming up behind me. I believe a normal person would have jumped a bit. Me? I screamed in terror and dived out of the way. :smalleek:

The terror I experience when I need to leave my apartment is addressed by a powerful drug: Xanax. This is a narcotic, which means it's addictive. Other methods were tried, but they were never strong enough to overcome my fear. And the proof has been given in simple doctor visits. When I go to see my primary care physician, and I have NOT taken the meds, my blood pressure is abnormally high. I think my highest was 169/90. I take my meds an hour before I leave for the doc, and my BP is a happy 110/70.

The use of Xanax is rather extreme. I recommend it as a last resort. Instead, try this. I don't know you, your medical history, or any such important details. Thus, this suggestion is followed at your own risk, unless you discuss it with a doctor first. Buy a bottle of over-the-counter Benedryl (SP?). Many people get knocked out on a full adult dose, which I believe is 50 mg. If this is how you react to 50 mg., a mere 25 mg. might well have a simple, calming effect on you. WARNING: before you take a tablet and rush out into the world, try this at home first! Pay attention to how you feel. The last thing you want to do is run out into the world, completely out of it.

No matter what medicinal route you attempt, therapy is probably needed to help you learn the methods to get past the traumas you've experienced. You need to find a doctor that will help. That, in itself, may become a lengthy search, and you may have to settle for a support group. Trust me when I say that sitting at home and letting the fear eat you is not a good thing.

And I know this from an ongoing experience. :smallfrown:

[ArlEammon]

Oh Bor, I'm sorry Bor.

[sktarq]

....The use of Xanax is rather extreme. I recommend it as a last resort. Instead, try this. I don't know you, your medical history, or any such important details. Thus, this suggestion is followed at your own risk, unless you discuss it with a doctor first. Buy a bottle of over-the-counter Benedryl (SP?). Many people get knocked out on a full adult dose, which I believe is 50 mg. If this is how you react to 50 mg., a mere 25 mg. might well have a simple, calming effect on you. WARNING: before you take a tablet and rush out into the world, try this at home first! Pay attention to how you feel. The last thing you want to do is run out into the world, completely out of it.

Minor amendum here/reiteration. DEFINATELY TRY THIS AT HOME FIRST! same statement but for a different reason. Several classes of "downers" can have odd effects for people who have neurochemistry that can be happily defined as "different". I mention this because I know people who have WILDLY different effects tan those labeled on the bottle. Including but not held to: Becomeing extreamly aggressive, crying sponaneously, mild aggressivmess with hyperactivity, and halucinations/synesthesia (senses miscue-hear red, smell a C above midde C, and feel your sense of balence in your thumbs type stuff). I have never known a catagory of drugs Bededryl uses as well as Benzodiziapeines to have as many "abnormal" effects. Frankly I hope it works for you and I'm glad it's working for Bor but for Pete's sake be careful.

[Bor the Barbarian Monk]

Oh Bor, I'm sorry Bor.
"I'm sorry, sir, but we don't accept the Sympathy Card here. If you'd like to use your Empathy Express Card, however, we'd happily serve you." :smallwink:

While my various tales seem to earn a degree of pity, that's not their goal. The messages vary. "This worked for me." "This didn't work for me." "This is me being stupid, so don't do this." Etc.

[Rex Idiotarum]

Bor, I don't think anyone could harm you more than your body already does. So, really, who's to fear if you are your own worst enemy?

[Cyrano]

Ahhh! Rationality! The holy grail of humanity! It's vaguely concievable and it works in theory, but it can't be said have ever been adequately demonstrated.

[Rex Idiotarum]

You're right, D'anna, screw rationality, everyone's out to kill me.

Now what? Crap, I don't fear death...

[Bor the Barbarian Monk]

Bor, I don't think anyone could harm you more than your body already does. So, really, who's to fear if you are your own worst enemy?

I actually just got off the phone with my friend Julie. After explaining how I stubbed my broken toe the other day, I said, "Jules, if they locked me in a rubber room, I would find a way to cut myself on the walls." :smalleek:

Oh...Sktarq, my warning was for the Benedryl only, as it was recommended as a kind of home remedy. To recommend a benzo right out the gate would be akin to saying, "You have a fresh papercut? We must amputate immediately!" Heck, I said something similar to a doctor when I was in the ICU for diabetes issues. They were giving me diloted at the start of my visit for the extreme pain I was in. The thing is, as I improved, they were still giving it to me. I had the doctor called and told him that while appreciated his efforts to manage my pain, giving me diloted at that point was like treating a papercut with open heart surgery. That earned me a chuckle from the doc and a prescription for something less powerful.

I'm not one to point at pills and say, "You need those!" No, my battlecry has been "TALK TO YOUR DOCTOR" for some time. Benedryl, being an over-the-counter medication, is nothing compared to what I take. However, antihistamines are commonly used for the calming effect they can have. But even THAT should be tried at home first. I've known people who sleep for eight hours after taking half the recommended dose. You don't want to be out and about and have that happen.

It comes down to that which you basically said: every patient is different. Different treatments are required for each individual. For something as serious as PTSD, a doctor is needed. Meanwhile, if a little benedryl helps Armin survive the days until he/she can see the doctor, so much the better.

[Cyrano]

You're right, D'anna, screw rationality, everyone's out to kill me.

Now what? Crap, I don't fear death...

Ok, granted, rationality is more common then I give it credit for. I still maintain, however, that in relation to trauma, it's rather impossible given the average mindset. Or at least extremely difficult.

[sktarq]

Oh...Sktarq, my warning was for the Benedryl only, as it was recommended as a kind of home remedy. To recommend a benzo right out the gate would be akin to saying, "You have a fresh papercut? We must amputate immediately!"...I'm not one to point at pills and say, "You need those!" No, my battlecry has been "TALK TO YOUR DOCTOR" for some time. Benedryl, being an over-the-counter medication, is nothing compared to what I take. However, antihistamines are commonly used for the calming effect they can have. But even THAT should be tried at home first. I've known people who sleep for eight hours after taking half the recommended dose. You don't want to be out and about and have that happen....
The reason I mentioned both is that I know people who have had effects wildly disproposrsionate to their doses. The last one (halucinations+sensory woohoo) is me on two tylenol PM's with have a grand total of 1/3 the dose found in most OTC sleeping pills. The random spontaneous violence without hyperactivity was a girlfriend who had pollen allergies the spring I lived with her far worse than before and tried to medicate for it....with Benedryl. I had to repair our walls, our fridge, she went through 3 phones in two months, and put a dent in the neighbor's car's hood with her fist.

[Bor the Barbarian Monk]

Okay...Embarrassing Bor story for you involving meds. It exemplifies what we're talking about, and why you really shouldn't do very much without consulting a doctor.

I was living with my girlfriend of the time. Our daily routine was that she would pick me up from work, drop me off at home, and then attend night classes. While I could cook dinner while she was out, we decided we'd both live longer if it waited for her. :smallwink: Instead, my job was to merely prepare what she would need to cook.

One other important fact about this story is that we LITERALLY lived across the street from a supermarket.

Now, in order to address my depression, my doctor handed me samples of a new medication on the market. My lady dropped me off at home, and I went in and took my very first dose of this new med.

She came home a couple of hours later to find me in bed, curled into a fetal position, and crying hysterically. She was immediately by my side and asking what was wrong. Hiccupping and sobbing, I announced, "We don't have enough bread crumbs for dinner."

"Oh, honey," she said, gently caressing my face and kissing my forehead. "You're PMSing." :smallredface:

Funny now, but scary then.

Stay in touch with your doctor when using meds!

[Inhuman Bot]

YEah, I have decided to no longer be a lurker on this thread/ the old thread.
It's kinda hard to say.. er, type and sorry if it irks anyone but, as others I need to unload so here goes....
I have now entered junior high, with all it's changes. Into a bigger school, more class changes etc. My problems are that I have never had a talent for making freinds, and the few I had from last year treat me like an outsider and a freak. Even doing clubs and such no one there shares more then one intrest with me. I have a a sense of morals, maturity and culture which no one else has. No one beats me up, as nerds seem to be more excepted yet people frequintly insult me. I am pretty much alone all the time. The one girl I ever liked openly dumped me adding to my humiliation, so my adolesince is pretty much screwed as everyone laughs at me. I can't concentrate in class so my marks have gone down. Also,another problem is everyone will move on ahead with me and spread my reputation.
Finally I have to act "tough" to not get beat up.

Thanks, if you read this for putting up with it. If anyone has a problem I'll try too help.

[Rex Idiotarum]

O! My God! Are you me from the past?

Meh, I'm antisocial because I just can't remember people. I tell you, I love the Forums because everyone has a name tag and most people have a cute cartoon face.

[Inhuman Bot]

heh, yup. er, not the you from the past bit. I fyou don't mind did you just wait it or what? any help is appreceaitted ( sorry for the bad spelling.)

[Serpentine]

I have a Bor story that I am ashamed of, but it serves two purposes. One is that it exemplifies the ability to open one's mouth and insert one's foot up to the knee. The other is to show part of the long journey to become who and what I am today.
My mum did something similar to this. Not quite as spectacular, but she did make a girl needlessly fear for her life.
We went to... some sort of Christmas-like gathering with mum's husband's family. One of his nieces (Amy, our dog was named after her apparently), I think in her early to mid teens at the time, had been out of sorts, a bit ill, and, as mum noticed, had some swelling around her throat. She went into Dr Mum mode, and started feeling around her throat and doing some diagnosis. Unusually for her, she only talked to Amy's mother, pretty much ignoring the girl. She was yammering on about how it could be a goitre, how they are caused by such and such, how they can cause illness, strange moods and behaviour and how, if left untreated, it could kill. It wasn't until she realised that poor Amy had gone off crying that she thought that perhaps she hadn't quite gone about it very tactfully...

Slaanesh, there's not really much I can say... Watch out for that "I have a sense of morals, maturity and culture which noone else has", such an attitude won't get you very far. All I can really offer is the advice my mother gave me, to dubious usefulness:
Be a friend to others, and others will be a friend to you.One of those "do unto others" deals, I think.

[Garatolla]

Forgive my seemingly sporadic, random interjections into the topic, but I've never been a good forum crunching machine.
I feel terrible right now, and I feel too tired to care that much about getting out of the pit of crushing blah. My meds don't seem to work, and this is the third type of anti depressant they've put me on.....the previous one made me manic and gave me unpleasant side effects, and the one before that simply did nada for me.
I was supposed to see a counsellor today, but after getting the bus out to the clinic (may I add that I was meant to take some papers with me that I realised I forgot once I got to the bus stop, so I didn't have time to go get them -_-) I found out the guy was double-booked and they had allegedly left me a message on my answer machine to that effect (no message may I add, I checked the phone, and no one else has noticed any messages lately). So, I then had to wait an hour to get home from an appointment I didn't get to have, and the black well of misery in me says that it wouldn't have made a difference anyway, and now I have a head full of self harm and suicidal ideation ~terminology for the day~. I feel like I could just sink into the floor and vanish.....

I ranted a little, sorry about that people, just needed to say something in the presence of a like minded crowd....

[Rex Idiotarum]

I just succumbed to a life of being dark, bitter, and cynical. Course, I gave up on any sense of morality ((Fell asleep in church too many times)), said Screw Maturity ((Why people know me as The Pogoer, I'd Pogo after school for hours.)), and culture, and just laugh at the kids who do stupid things. Eventually, you realize people are just pawns to be played, and then you'll have to play them.

[Micate]

Slaanesh, if the people at school won't be your friends, then you can't make them. That said, you might be doing some things to put them off. Remember, you can be moral, mature, and cultured even when everyone around you is smoking and tieing plastic soldiers to M80s laughing like little kids at the destruction. Just remember, the cultured laugh at the uncultured, and the mature can forgive those around them their immaturity and poor morality.
That said, I have no clue how to make friends, since I live in my bubble, and can't even get myself to leave the house to pick up groceries I've become so paranoid of people. Which is kind of why I'm here...
(long rant ahead, read at your own risk. I may have exaggerated a bit, but that's what rants are right?)
I have 0 health insurance at the moment, and can barely afford rent only with my parents help (I make ~800/month working part time, rent costs 800. +utilities/etc), so I'm trying to avoid going to a psychiatrist until after I get hired as a full time employee and get health coverage to hopefully pay for meds (or at least, I'll be making more money and can afford more meds). That said, I'm freaking paranoid. I just spent the last 6 hours or so switching between the fetal position and lying with my face down smothered by a bunch of pillows, because I can't decide where to go to get lunch (dinner now) because there are people outside, and I KNOW I am going to freak out if I have to go outside, and while driving helps close me off from everyone else, I don't want to drive to get food when it's faster to walk, and blah blah blah, circular logic, blah blah, I can't take it anymore... So I starve tonight ... :smallfrown:
Normally, I survive by being with people I know, if I'm with a friend, I'm perfectly fine. I can do anything with a friend to lean on (or at least to distract me), so I'm fine at work, and normally my roomate cooks dinner, its just that we don't have any groceries ATM, I can't go get them, because that means leaving my bubble, and he has classes during the night tues/thurs, so he eats his meals there, and I have to fend for myself, which normally means pizza, but I've already ordered pizza 4 times this last week while my roomate was in London seeing his girlfriend, so I don't want to order delivery again. And btw, this paranoia is extended to phones too, so the delivery I get always ends up being the same place, since Papa John's is the only pizza place nearby (besides Dominos, but they make cardboard, not pizza) that has online ordering.
/rant off.

My head hurts... *falls asleep where he's sitting*

[SurlySeraph]

Okay. (warning: rambling, complaint-filled, whining, mostly unimportant story) So I should have written my history essay due tomorrow today. Well, actually I should have written it about a week and a half ago, but my goddamn senile teacher kept moving the due date up, so it never really hit me that I had to actually do it. I made a half-assed outline for the essay yesterday, and tried to write it today. But, of course, I was tired when I got home and got home late, which makes it hard for me to get down to work. I wrote about half the essay by 5:30, while spending way too much time on these forums and listening to mildly depressing music, since I'd had the same song ("Breathe," by Disturbed. "You will release your life, joining with the goddamned world of the dead and the lonely...") stuck in my head all day and I felt like I'd go crazy if I didn't listen to it, and then of course I went and listened to a bunch of other songs. Then I dithered around and didn't get much done until I had dinner at 7. I got back to work at 7:30. Then I started working while listening to "The Unforgiven," by Metallica. Mistake. Everything in the song just sounded exactly like how I felt. I looked up the lyrics, and it was even more so. I tried to be nice to everyone when I was younger, they were bastards to me regardless, I forgive no one and I'm going to die with a lot of regrets and grudges. (note: I still have grudges against people from kindergarten. I'm in 12th grade. Knowing that forgiveness is a great virtue doesn't exactly make me feel better about this.) Then I had "The Unforgiven" and "Breathe" alternately playing in my head, and I was just thinking about how badly I'd screwed up, how worthless everything I'd done was, how pointless everything felt. I tried reading the Bible, which helped a little, except that I was reading through the book of Psalms and most of them are about the righteous being protected from the wicked and iniquitous. Not much about how to change if you are wicked and iniquitous. So, while I felt a little better, I didn't feel any more hopeful at all. So, yep, paroxysms of tremendous depression, can't get anymore work done today, I'm going to have to miss school tomorrow and I'll miss some pretty important classes. I'll also miss whatever everyone at my school will be doing for Halloween, which might have cheered me up.

Okay, I've got that rant out of the way. My actual problems at the moment aren't so bad, it's just that it's harder for me to deal with them than it's been before.

My schoolwork really isn't too hard or too much, but I have trouble just getting down and working on it. It feels like time is going faster somehow. It takes me an hour and a half to do math problems that I know should only take 40 minutes. A couple nights ago I went to bed around 11:30 and lay there just thinking for a while. I couldn't get to sleep because I was thirsty, so eventually I got up to get water. When I went to the kitchen, it was past 2AM. :smalleek: Part of this is probably because I'm really sleep-deprived; I'm in the habit of going to sleep a lot later than I should be for no good reason, and it's screwing me up.

Wrestling season starts in 5 days. Yesterday, we had our captain's practice, a sort of warm-up for the season. I'm in terrible shape, both mentally and physically. Physically, I'm weak, my endurance is a lot worse than it should be, and my wrists and ankles hurt. Mentally, I'm not trying. I could push myself a lot more and work past being out of shape so I can really make myself strong, but I'm not doing it. It's like I don't have the willpower to really do anything I want to anymore. If I'm lucky, the season will get me in shape, make me do better in school by taking up my spare time (because if I have a lot of spare time, I never get to the work I actually have to do), and be fun. If I'm not lucky, I'll screw up my wrists and/or ankles and/or knees and/or shoulders, get beat up by kids who are weaker and less experienced than me, and stop caring about being good at anything due to the futility of trying to improve. I hope it'll go well.

You know what the saddest words in the world are? "I don't know."

I don't know why I'm not trying anymore. I don't know how or why I let myself get like this. I don't know why I'm not doing the work I know I need to do. I don't know where the time goes. I don't know how to fix what I'm doing wrong. I don't know how to deal with this. I don't know if I can change. I don't know if there's hope. I don't know if I'm a good person or not. I just don't know anymore. I wish I did, but I don't know.

[Rex Idiotarum]

Okay, I've got that rant out of the way. My actual problems at the moment aren't so bad, it's just that it's harder for me to deal with them than it's been before.

My schoolwork really isn't too hard or too much, but I have trouble just getting down and working on it. It feels like time is going faster somehow. It takes me an hour and a half to do math problems that I know should only take 40 minutes. A couple nights ago I went to bed around 11:30 and lay there just thinking for a while. I couldn't get to sleep because I was thirsty, so eventually I got up to get water. When I went to the kitchen, it was past 2AM. :smalleek: Part of this is probably because I'm really sleep-deprived; I'm in the habit of going to sleep a lot later than I should be for no good reason, and it's screwing me up.

You know what the saddest words in the world are? "I don't know."

I don't know why I'm not trying anymore. I don't know how or why I let myself get like this. I don't know why I'm not doing the work I know I need to do. I don't know where the time goes. I don't know how to fix what I'm doing wrong. I don't know how to deal with this. I don't know if I can change. I don't know if there's hope. I don't know if I'm a good person or not. I just don't know anymore. I wish I did, but I don't know.

You know, thinking back, I had that problem. I probably still do, but just don't care anymore. I think my Mom was the only reason I passed English at all. If it weren't for all those late nights saying. "Uh... mom... this had to be done... two weeks ago..." and just staying up until two in the morning getting the paper finalized or until the point where I felt like my brains had just been squeezed out of my head like toothpaste, with her typing and helping me out.

You know, I really have to thank my mother. She does a lot for me, more than I'll ever know, more than she'll ever show. But I find I can't give her what she asks, which is for her to not have to ask.

[Lemur]

I've had that happen to me too, SS. It still happens from time to time, it seems. From what I can tell part of it's influenced by lack of sleep and physical activity, but obviously that's not the whole story. I think part of it might be a sort of chronic disinterest, from lack of stimulation.

The best I've been able to do to counter it so far is to stop paying attention to so-called reason. It doesn't matter why I feel the way I feel, everything that's getting in my way that I don't understand is just trash to be ignored. If logic or emotion is holding me back, it deserves to be crushed. Of course, I don't feel comfortable making this sound like it's supposed to be advice, since I've notice what works me can be incomprehensible to others. Furthermore, it's certainly not easy to get myself into this state. It's quite difficult, but once I really get into it, difficulty doesn't matter. This has just been my experience.

Actual advice involves doing some stretching and limb rotations.

Pointless remark: I usually listen to Pink Floyd when I have to write stuff.

[averagejoe]

YEah, I have decided to no longer be a lurker on this thread/ the old thread.
It's kinda hard to say.. er, type and sorry if it irks anyone but, as others I need to unload so here goes....
I have now entered junior high, with all it's changes. Into a bigger school, more class changes etc. My problems are that I have never had a talent for making freinds, and the few I had from last year treat me like an outsider and a freak. Even doing clubs and such no one there shares more then one intrest with me. I have a a sense of morals, maturity and culture which no one else has. No one beats me up, as nerds seem to be more excepted yet people frequintly insult me. I am pretty much alone all the time. The one girl I ever liked openly dumped me adding to my humiliation, so my adolesince is pretty much screwed as everyone laughs at me. I can't concentrate in class so my marks have gone down. Also,another problem is everyone will move on ahead with me and spread my reputation.
Finally I have to act "tough" to not get beat up.

Thanks, if you read this for putting up with it. If anyone has a problem I'll try too help.

I have two rather broad pieces of advice. I know that there's not just one solution to these sorts of problems, so you can take it or leave it, this is just what worked for me.

1) Don't sweat people laughing at you. They only care because you do. I'm not talking about how you should react, I'm telling you to realize it doesn't matter, and just not get humiliated. People tell me that it doesn't work like that, but I'll swear on a stack of DM's guides that it does. It's like wiggling your ears; completely impossible, but then extraordinarily easy when you figure out which muscles to pull.

2) You say, "I have a a sense of morals, maturity and culture which no one else has." Maybe this is true; I can't say. However, if I have learned one thing over the years, it's that it's really easy to prejudge people in this matter, especially if you're "smart."

If you'll indulge me, I'd like to share a story from my high school days. To cut a long story slightly less long, I'll say only that some complications forced me to transfer schools my senior year of high school, so, while it sucked big time, I also got a bit of a fresh perspective on things. I remember there was this girl, as there often is, but not like that. I was never actually attracted to her, nor did I ever consider her to be desireable. In fact, I didn't even like her much. She was popular, seemed kinda whiny, was involved in all sorts of clubs/school functions, was probably in student government (I have no idea, I've never paid any attention to it), was rich and a bit spoiled (I would overhear her before class talking about going on weekend visits to other countries), always asked really dumb questions in class, was disliked by the people I got to know as pretty cool people, and, to top it all off, wore all the right clothes and was blonde. Now, I never actually hated her, or wished her harm, but I kind of automatically rolled my eyes whenever she spoke. I've always been too polite a person (or, looked at from a certain point of view, too cowardly) to get confrontational with people, and treat everyone more or less the same way, so I'm pretty sure that she thought that I was a pretty alright guy on a personal level. Not anyone worthy of special attention or anything like that, just someone who she didn't dislike. However, to me she was just a kind of dumb person who stood for the sorts of things that I didn't.

Enough with the background and onto the interesting bits. I remember having spoken to her once, near the end of the year. I was giving something or other to some canned food drive or clothes drive or something, and she happened to be one of the people running it. Now this by itself didn't mean anything to me, because those sorts of things look good on a college application. However, she told me that she was really glad that I gave what I did, because there was some immediate concern for the people who it would be going to. It just kind of hit me right there. She wasn't just some ditzy blonde popular rich girl, she was someone who genuinely cared about other people, and tried to do her bit to help out. Then I thought that maybe she didn't ask those dumb questions because she was stupid, maybe she did so because she was honestly trying to learn and understand, to better herself. I know it reads like a bad Aesop, but that's how it happened, and I honestly never looked at her with contempt after that, and gradually began to stop looking at other people the same way.

All I'm trying to say is that maybe things would be easier if you stopped looking down at people. I know well the feeling of being better, smarter, more morally upright than everyone around me. That was me for most of my adolescence, and sometimes still is. However, if I've learned nothing else in my lifetime, I've learned that people will suprise you with their worthwhile traits if you bother to put yourself in their shoes for a moment.

Enough with these fables! I swear, I'm becoming an old man long before my time.

[DarkLightDragon]

Slaanesh: By clubs I assume you mean in-school clubs. Try finding an out-of-school activity, such as a youth group. That may help with your not-very-social problem. The people at my youth group are quite friendly and fun to be around.

Anyway, I myself am starting to improve on the social thing. I find it easier to talk to some people, but I still have problems with most people. Hell, I've even made a friend!

But I'm not so good physically at the moment. I'm extremely tired, coughing and snorting nonstop, throat is very dry and sore and I just feel like crap. I stayed home from school today, and may tomorrow if I'm still not feeling well.

I just hope I pass year 11. I don't know if my marks have improved enough and I haven't completed all of a program I need to complete by the end of the year, although I am trying to find ways to do so. But if I don't make it, I'll probably go study multimedia stuff. That's what I'd rather be doing anyway. Next week is my last week of this school year. Thank goodness.

[Skippy]

Hi guys.

I'm a bit depressed since yesterday, you know?

Did anyone here see Monday's chapter of Heroes?

Well, this is why I'm a bit depressed: For a moment, I despised Hiro Nakamura. I hated him. I understood Kensei's actions. I would have done the same.

I got depressed because I found out I haven't entirely forgotten what happened to me almost a year ago. I should have been over it a long time ago, and yet it still hurts when I remember.

Not asking for advice or anything, I just wanted to rant a bit.

[Serpentine]

DLD, don't sweat it, at least not too much. The worst thing you can do is burn yourself out. If you have that back-up of multimedia studies you really don't need to worry about it, and if you do want to get into uni, if you do happen to not get the score needed for the degree you want there are plenty of backdoor ways in (if you're in NSW, you'll have that cheap-arse "Principle's Rec" to rely on straight away:smallsigh:). If you do fail, there is absolutely no reason to think it's the end of the world, and I very much doubt that's likely to be a probability.

[Inhuman Bot]

Yes, thanks for the advice. My being alone has kind of given me a somewhat overinflated opinion of my self so there is that. The Cultured etc. part comes from I can appreceiate real art and music, behave and talk without saying stuff such as: BULL**T A** BIT* etc.
@micate this is pobly is nott good advice but do things you might be able do is, for example go to social events that are public or sign up for groups. If you are overparinoid, that might be something like stress or lack of sleep unless you have always been like that. I will try to get better advice when I can.

(sorry for ncorrect spelling, my keyboards still not working)

[Micate]

I try to do what I can, and yea, I've been paranoid most of my life (although its never been nearly this bad before, started getting bad some time in the last year or so, although it was probably escalating slowly prior, I just tend not to notice things like that). Mostly, I'm content living in my bubble, I don't mind being a hermit. I just needed to rant, hunger tends to make me cranky.

Thanks Slaan, though, for trying.

[Lykan]

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Some of you know that I have issues with almost constant bleeding. Fewer in that number are aware that almost 95% of the time, such bleeding is caused by me digging into my skin to rid myself of myriad bumps, bruises, bug bites, or when just reopening my own scabs for almost no reason. I realize that I mostly do this when under stress (and given that it’s the school year, it’s basically constant), though I have no way of stopping it.

I feel like I HAVE to do it... When I do, I feel better... It feels right when it’s done.

Don’t get me wrong, though. I really, really want to stop. It’s driving me crazy that my face hurts on a constant basis, that my hands are always bloody, and that this seems to be a cause of major concern in my parents.

Before you ask, yes, I am seeing a shrink. He’s a quack. He finds that it’s curative to have me stare at a bouncing light for some 25 odd minutes while I contemplate something violent to that would let me get out of the guy’s office early.

Oh, I’d like to bring up the fact that I’m been digging out a new hole while writing this message... Guess I’m stressed even when I’m talking with friends.

I apologize for my horrible attempts at self photography.

[Serpentine]

Lykan, I think it's time to get a new psychologist. It could just be a particularly ingrained habit, though, like... ionno, picking your nose or clicking a pen, though perhaps with something like a bit of obsessive compulsion? I'd suggest that it might be worth trying to replace it with something else, say tearing paper, or clicking a pen. You don't want to get infections and/or scars.
Also, that reminds me, do you have all those word drawing thingies somewhere?

[Bor the Barbarian Monk]

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Some of you know that I have issues with almost constant bleeding. Fewer in that number are aware that almost 95% of the time, such bleeding is caused by me digging into my skin to rid myself of myriad bumps, bruises, bug bites, or when just reopening my own scabs for almost no reason. I realize that I mostly do this when under stress (and given that it’s the school year, it’s basically constant), though I have no way of stopping it.

I feel like I HAVE to do it... When I do, I feel better... It feels right when it’s done.

Don’t get me wrong, though. I really, really want to stop. It’s driving me crazy that my face hurts on a constant basis, that my hands are always bloody, and that this seems to be a cause of major concern in my parents.

Before you ask, yes, I am seeing a shrink. He’s a quack. He finds that it’s curative to have me stare at a bouncing light for some 25 odd minutes while I contemplate something violent to that would let me get out of the guy’s office early.

Oh, I’d like to bring up the fact that I’m been digging out a new hole while writing this message... Guess I’m stressed even when I’m talking with friends.

I apologize for my horrible attempts at self photography.
Fear not, our friendly neighborhood lycanthope! Bor, your friendly neighborhood barbarian monk is here to help you with the unfriendly neighborhood head-shrinker. Here, then, are the very words you can use on this moron you're seeing. You can choose to print it up and read it to him, memorize it and recite it, or simply print it and hand it to him on your next visit.

Are we all ready? Then let's get to it, shall we?


Dear Dr. Git,

The time has come for one of several actions to take place. Before I get to those actions, I believe it's important to review the reasons I've come to you.

I came for help. This obsessive compulsion I have for picking at my various wounds is completely uncontrolled. I am a bleeding, scarred mess. If I am repulsed by my weeping sores, I can only imagine how the rest of the world reacts. My emotional state is causing my to crumble, and my regular visits to you are doing absolutely nothing to resolve the matter. Watching a bouncing light in an effort to teach me a relaxtion technique actually has managed to add to my stress. You, my dear Dr. Git, are not doing your job.

Yes, I realize I am responsible to a degree for my own actions. However, I need real help in learning how to not literally tear myself apart. I don't know how to do that on my own. Thus, we come to the various actions that must take place.

1. You can stop playing the "money syphon game." By this, I mean that almost half of my sessions are spent with me staring at a light, while you are overpaid for my doing so. It's not working. We both know it's not working. And the fact that you know this is merely a display of your greed. You keep me as a patient to get paid, not to help me. You have four more sessions to start making a genuine effort to help me, and then I will seek out someone who can.

2. If you truly believe that you are incapable of helping me, refer me to someone who can. The doctor who doesn't know other doctors is no doctor at all. A man of intelligence knows when he is overwhelmed and makes a referral. I honestly don't care if you send me off to your arch-nemesis in the field of psych-care; the methods you disagree with may well be exactly what I need. Whomever you send me to, your thought should be, "If I can't help, maybe this other doctor can."

3. Finally, you can do nothing. Surrender to the fact that you are inept and unable to assist me in my problem, and set me free to find my own help. I'm in dire need of aid, and I will fight on my own to get it if necessary. Option number two at least offers a chance for some self-esteem, in which you still manage to take appropriate action in helping me. This action - number three - is proof that you are the quack I think you are.

There. The words are out. And I know some part of you wants to engage in psychoanalysis of what's been said. I'll tell you now that if you attempt to do so, and I am aware of it, I will take that precious clock you watch - you know...the one you keep an eye on so you can tell me when the sessions are over - and beat you about the head and neck with it. (Okay...not a real threat. But you're a psychologist, so you should have a true understanding of the phrase, "It's the thought that counts.")

The ball is in your court, Dr. Git. What's it going to be?

Sincerely,
Your Desperate Patient

:biggrin:

[Ego Slayer]

Lykan, I'm glad you decided you post here. *Whispers to everyone else* I've been trying to tell him that it definitely seems he needs a new psychologist, so... knock some sense into him, for me, please! ^_~

*Hugs Lykan*

[Micate]

I second Bor's note. And do tell us how he responds, that looks like it might be interesting. I wanna know what color the doctor's face turns when he sees/hears that. :smallwink:

[sktarq]

I wanna know what color the doctor's face turns when he sees/hears that. :smallwink:
I'm betting purple with hint of green.

[wadledo]

Well, I feel bad taking the spotlight away from Lykan, I should probably talk about this at some point.:smallsigh:
After trick-or-treating with some old friends on Halloween, I went home, stayed up late, went to sleep, and then slept through my alarm till about 11ish. My parents had called the school to tell them I wouldn't be there, and I woke up, started down the stairs, got less than halfway down, and fell feet first the rest of the way, smashing my leg in the process. Not a big thing in all, but I have been having a crappy week.
On Sunday I finally acknowledged that my 76-year-old grandmother is in the hospital with a broken hip, and has to stay there for the next 5 weeks.
On Monday I am told I will be in a group project with a girl who has hated me since kindergarden, along with a very intelligent, but exceedingly cold and defensive girl who also doesn’t like me, apparently.
On Tuesday a favorite hat of mine is taken by a friend's friend who returns it after another friend of a friend of a friend says, "You're going to have to burn that glove to get his germs off."
On Wednesday I don't dress up in my costume, a giant lobster that I've worn for the past 3 years, also using it as a mascot for a local restaurant for a summer, and a number of people told me that they like the lobster better than me. I also realized how much I need somebody to say, "He's feeling sad" and mean it, and how much I miss the friends that moved on last year.
So I’m out with friends (different than those who graduated) and the entire time I keep thinking I really hate these people and the only reason I’m here is because of a girl who I don’t particularly like.
And I end up at the bottom of a flight of stairs, holding my leg and trying not to cry at life’s little joke that is me. 15 minutes later the pain goes down enough that I walk to the kitchen, make some tea and a sandwich, and bite into ham and moldy bread.
I wasn’t sure which was worse, ‘cause I’m a sort of vegetarian.
Now I feel tired to the bone, I feel the need to spend the next 48 hours outdoors (and there's going be 50+ mile per hour winds where I live), and I just accidentally ate some hamburger.
This week is not going well for me.:smallsigh:

[Volug]

THEY STOLE YOUR HAT?!?!?! THOSE EVIL MONSTERS!!!!
*Picks up axe and hunts hat-stealers down* (Joking!:smallbiggrin: )

I love my hat! My pimpin' red hat makes me who I am:smallbiggrin:

THough enough of that. Some people don't have their weeks, usually doing everything with a smile or just making people feel strange because your smiling all the time makes the difference:smallbiggrin:.
I take things with a good attitude unless it is REALLY serious. Some things you sadly have to grin... and bear it... Everything will work out in the end and I hope your week gets better! Be happy and have a hug! *HUG!*

..... Where's my hat?:smallconfused:

[Lykan]

Alright... I'll go see if I can change my shrink... I'll let you guys know how well that goes in a few...

Bor, the letter may be unrequired, though I still found it quite funny. I may try reading it anyway, though. Just for you people. =P

*hugs Ego back* ^_^

[Lilly]

All of my friends are getting married, or moving more towards domesticity. All of them. There are 4 other girls and one guy that I'm real close friends with. One of the girls is getting married to the guy, one is getting married in about 2 weeks to another fairly good friend (and they just bought a house!), one is having a baby (due any day now), and one just got engaged (I just got off of a very giddy phone call). I feel like I'm very behind in life, or at least relationship wise.

I have a long distance sweetie, and he's great, but the 1300 miles I just moved is just added maybe 15% to the distance.

All my friends are moving forward in their lives, and I just moved back in with my parents. I'd gotten over most of this a couple of months ago, but then two more engagements happened, and when I go see them all in two weeks, they'll be trying to set me up with everyone, up to and including the best man in the wedding.

Do I want to catch up? Part of me does. This is the part controlled by hormones, and keeps having dreams about babies (and swamps, and shopping centers). But the rest of me wants to go to pharmacy school. And have an adventure.

I just need to feel okay about not being more domestic. Why hasn't the movie "River Tam Beats Up Everyone (http://www.xkcd.com/311/)" been made? That seems like the movie I need to watch. Also the side effects of birth control pills mimic early pregnancy, mood swings are joy on a stick.

[SurlySeraph]

Well, I feel bad taking the spotlight away from Lykan, I should probably talk about this at some point.:smallsigh:
After trick-or-treating with some old friends on Halloween, I went home, stayed up late, went to sleep, and then slept through my alarm till about 11ish. My parents had called the school to tell them I wouldn't be there, and I woke up, started down the stairs, got less than halfway down, and fell feet first the rest of the way, smashing my leg in the process. Not a big thing in all, but I have been having a crappy week.

That sucks. Sorry. That's simultaneously very ironic and very terrible.


On Monday I am told I will be in a group project with a girl who has hated me since kindergarden, along with a very intelligent, but exceedingly cold and defensive girl who also doesn’t like me, apparently.

I've been there. Many times. Just act very impersonal, don't make jokes, and avoid looking at them, and they'll be happy.


On Tuesday a favorite hat of mine is taken by a friend's friend who returns it after another friend of a friend of a friend says, "You're going to have to burn that glove to get his germs off."

Quite a bastard. Sorry about that.


On Wednesday I don't dress up in my costume, a giant lobster that I've worn for the past 3 years, also using it as a mascot for a local restaurant for a summer, and a number of people told me that they like the lobster better than me. I also realized how much I need somebody to say, "He's feeling sad" and mean it, and how much I miss the friends that moved on last year.

I know how that gets. Sorry, no help I can give you; people are just bastards like that sometimes. Can you still talk to your friends online? That usually helps.


So I’m out with friends (different than those who graduated) and the entire time I keep thinking I really hate these people and the only reason I’m here is because of a girl who I don’t particularly like.
And I end up at the bottom of a flight of stairs, holding my leg and trying not to cry at life’s little joke that is me. 15 minutes later the pain goes down enough that I walk to the kitchen, make some tea and a sandwich, and bite into ham and moldy bread.

Sorry. Really, really sorry. Wish I could help with that.


I wasn’t sure which was worse, ‘cause I’m a sort of vegetarian.
Now I feel tired to the bone, I feel the need to spend the next 48 hours outdoors (and there's going be 50+ mile per hour winds where I live), and I just accidentally ate some hamburger.
This week is not going well for me.:smallsigh:

If it was an accident, you don't need to feel bad about it. It's not your fault. Just go eat something you actually want to eat and be done with it. As for the wind... stay inside. You don't want to risk going out in the wind when your leg's hurt like that. Just look out the window, it's better than doing nothing.

[wadledo]

Thanks Surly


All of my friends are getting married, or moving more towards domesticity. All of them. There are 4 other girls and one guy that I'm real close friends with. One of the girls is getting married to the guy, one is getting married in about 2 weeks to another fairly good friend (and they just bought a house!), one is having a baby (due any day now), and one just got engaged (I just got off of a very giddy phone call). I feel like I'm very behind in life, or at least relationship wise.

I have a long distance sweetie, and he's great, but the 1300 miles I just moved is just added maybe 15% to the distance.

All my friends are moving forward in their lives, and I just moved back in with my parents. I'd gotten over most of this a couple of months ago, but then two more engagements happened, and when I go see them all in two weeks, they'll be trying to set me up with everyone, up to and including the best man in the wedding.

Do I want to catch up? Part of me does. This is the part controlled by hormones, and keeps having dreams about babies (and swamps, and shopping centers). But the rest of me wants to go to pharmacy school. And have an adventure.

Come down to the cape this weekend!
I'm going to be flying kites in Noel!
If any of you see a person in an orange windbreaker go flying past your window, you'll know where I've been. :smallwink:
And bring chicken!

[Sisqui]

Before you ask, yes, I am seeing a shrink. He’s a quack. He finds that it’s curative to have me stare at a bouncing light for some 25 odd minutes while I contemplate something violent to that would let me get out of the guy’s office early.


I'm going to quote one of my previous posts:

I don't know if this applies to your reasons for being uneasy or not but one thing I have noticed is that people will put their doctors in the dominant role in their relationship. They seem to assume that the doctor is in control and then they take this pill and change that habit etc... based on what the doctors say. But a doctor is a private contractor. YOU have hired HIM. He is the employee. Seeing the relationship that way can be very empowering in that you get to be much less shy about asserting yourself. After all, you are the one footing the bill. If you don't like the quality of the work or his personality- FIRE HIM!


You have to take the initiative- you have to take charge of your health. It is YOUR responsibility. The doctor is an advisor, YOU are the decider. And if you don't get assertive, if you just sit there and do whatever the doctor tells you (or worse, if you feel like telling your doctor what is wrong is just whining and wasting his time) YOU WON'T GET BETTER! And it won't be the doctor's fault. YOU have to get a doctor you are comfortable with. YOU have to get a doctor who will listen to your complaints. YOU have to get a doctor who doesn't make you feel as if you are a petitioner begging for his attention within the confines of his own private sanctum. Whether it is your depression or some other aspect of your health, you can't just tell your MD "Well, whatever you decide" as if HE is the one with the most interest in the outcome of the decision. And most of all, you have to accept that you have the RIGHT to demand these things. If your doctor doesn't measure up- like I said, fire him. You don't need a second rate employee deciding your health issues for you. But, that comes with a caveat: if you take back the decision making power that is rightfully your own- YOU are the one ultimately responsible. You aren't going to hurt the doctor any by keeping your medical complaints to yourself. YOU are the one who will suffer for it. You wouldn't want an electrician rewiring your house unless he knew all the pertinent facts. You shouldn't want your doctor medicating you with less than full disclosure on your part either. That is YOUR responsibility.

Good luck to you though. :smallsmile:

[Bor the Barbarian Monk]

Alright... I'll go see if I can change my shrink... I'll let you guys know how well that goes in a few...

Bor, the letter may be unrequired, though I still found it quite funny. I may try reading it anyway, though. Just for you people. =P

*hugs Ego back* ^_^

But you just GOTTA let him hear/see those words, if only to get a reaction by calling him "Dr. Git!" :smallbiggrin:

@ Wadledo: Look, if you want to be me that badly, just say so and I'll give you my current life. The falling down, the social outcast thing...Been there, done that, got the tee shirt, joined the club, AND got the jacket! We're now considering a complete uniform. :smalltongue:

In all seriousness, it's called life. It happens while you're making other plans. Just hang on to hope, get through those rough years of "growing up," and you'll discover that the market for friends is much larger than the confines of a school.

[Skippy]

All of my friends are getting married, or moving more towards domesticity. All of them. There are 4 other girls and one guy that I'm real close friends with. One of the girls is getting married to the guy, one is getting married in about 2 weeks to another fairly good friend (and they just bought a house!), one is having a baby (due any day now), and one just got engaged (I just got off of a very giddy phone call). I feel like I'm very behind in life, or at least relationship wise.

I have a long distance sweetie, and he's great, but the 1300 miles I just moved is just added maybe 15% to the distance.

All my friends are moving forward in their lives, and I just moved back in with my parents. I'd gotten over most of this a couple of months ago, but then two more engagements happened, and when I go see them all in two weeks, they'll be trying to set me up with everyone, up to and including the best man in the wedding.

Do I want to catch up? Part of me does. This is the part controlled by hormones, and keeps having dreams about babies (and swamps, and shopping centers). But the rest of me wants to go to pharmacy school. And have an adventure.

I just need to feel okay about not being more domestic. Why hasn't the movie "River Tam Beats Up Everyone (http://www.xkcd.com/311/)" been made? That seems like the movie I need to watch. Also the side effects of birth control pills mimic early pregnancy, mood swings are joy on a stick.

Yes, it sucks when there's love all around and one is the lonely, weird one. I hate it when it happens. I just recommend to don't rush things. I know it sounds stupid, redundant and doesn't help at all, but it's the only thing that I know does not end in pain for someone.

And I'd also love to watch River Tam Beats Up Everything. It ought to be done. We should found the "Playground Productions" and get it done, you know...

[Bor the Barbarian Monk]

Okay...This time, I'm not here to rant. I'm not here to inspire. I'm here...to thank you folks.

On 10/28, on this very thread, I made mention of The Suicide Note: Memoirs of an Insulin Dependent Diabetic. I also mentioned that it was in dire need of updating/editing. Well, the next day, I opened up the file and started working on it. Thus far, it has grown from 90 pages to 115; an approximate word count growth of 7400. (Grand total 35,350 words.) It needs more. It's getting more.

And it would seem that the kick in the pants I needed to get back to work on it was you people.

Sisqui in particular. I may disagree with "snap out of it" when it comes to mental health. It's hard to alter your way of thinking when the chemicals in your brain are doing goofy things to the way you think. When it comes to poor diabetes care, I believe "snap out of it" should be taken to the next level..."Snap out of it or I will beat you senseless."

Yesterday, I went to the bank to get my rent. (Silly management won't let me use my debit card.) While there, I stuck up a conversation with the security guard that wandered the outside of the bank, watching people come and go, looking for suspicious characters. While he continued to perform his duties, we got into a conversation about common sense, which is usually anything but common.

It should be noted here that he is a Vietnam War veteran, was in the marines for 10 years, and worked for the Department of Defense for another 10 years. This level of experience means that he is no fool.

We spoke of things not permitted on these forums, specifically religion and politics. Sorry...can't tell you what we covered there. But as we went on with our chat of common sense, I started using diabetes education as an example of where the problem can start. There's no common sense in the education! "If you don't take care of yourself, you could lose your legs." Period. That's usually where the education stops. No one goes into the step-by-step process of HOW a diabetic goes from healthy to limbs being amputated. The Suicide Note does, even though I haven't had parts cut off just yet.

My security guard friend was fascinated to suddenly learn more about the process. What's more, he said that if I ever got it published, he would be very interested in buying a copy. That kind of recognition, prior to even having a reason to be recognized, felt good.

He did one other thing that actually put some spring into my limping gait. (Broken big toe, remember?) He thanked me. He spends his entire shift watching the doors of a bank, with usually nothing else to do but think. He was ultimately glad to have someone come along and engage him in stimulating conversation. :smallsmile:

So, thank you GitPers...for helping me kick my depression symptoms a bit and actually be productive. :smallredface:

[banjo1985]

Wow that's great news Bor :smallsmile:

I'm glad we forum goers have contributed at least a little to your good feelings!

[Bor the Barbarian Monk]

Wow that's great news Bor :smallsmile:

I'm glad we forum goers have contributed at least a little to your good feelings!

Each smile I get...Each "thank you" I receive...That's one free endorphin boost that helps me battle my symptoms. I can never thank some of you folks enough. :smallredface:

[CurlyKitGirl]

Each smile I get...Each "thank you" I receive...That's one free endorphin boost that helps me battle my symptoms. I can never thank some of you folks enough. :smallredface:

Heh. It's the wrong way around Bor.

SOme of us can never thank you enough. How many forumites have you volutarily aided in this thread or privately? I don't know but there's a lot of us. You're a kind of emergency room doctor and specialist surgeon all in one who will react rapidly to solve emergency crises or aid us over time and help our esteem, emotions and pretty much everything become happier and healthier.
What's more surprising is that you do it without pay! All you expect in return is nothing. What you receive is heartfelt thanks or indeed, nothing.
And to those thanks and compliments you often act as if they were nothing or that your ego is currently on holiday and unable to accept them. You deserve these compliments so enjoy them.
You're a future best seller and better than a shrink or a proffessional person.

In mickey of your sig: Be well Bor:biggrin:

[Skippy]

Indeed. Bor, you are one of the most incredible people I've ever... Well, not exactly met, but I think you get the picture. You have been inspiration to lots of people, and you have given strength to people who needed it. I am one of them. I'm very glad that one of your projects is coming to fruition, and I really hope your book is good enough to get translated and sold in Mexico, so I can get one.

Thank you, Bor. You are magnificent.

[Bor the Barbarian Monk]

Heh. It's the wrong way around Bor.

SOme of us can never thank you enough. How many forumites have you volutarily aided in this thread or privately? I don't know but there's a lot of us. You're a kind of emergency room doctor and specialist surgeon all in one who will react rapidly to solve emergency crises or aid us over time and help our esteem, emotions and pretty much everything become happier and healthier.
What's more surprising is that you do it without pay! All you expect in return is nothing. What you receive is heartfelt thanks or indeed, nothing.
And to those thanks and compliments you often act as if they were nothing or that your ego is currently on holiday and unable to accept them. You deserve these compliments so enjoy them.
You're a future best seller and better than a shrink or a proffessional person.

In mickey of your sig: Be well Bor:biggrin:


Indeed. Bor, you are one of the most incredible people I've ever... Well, not exactly met, but I think you get the picture. You have been inspiration to lots of people, and you have given strength to people who needed it. I am one of them. I'm very glad that one of your projects is coming to fruition, and I really hope your book is good enough to get translated and sold in Mexico, so I can get one.

Thank you, Bor. You are magnificent.
Gah! You people and your compliments! Thanks for the extra work. Now I, with my broken toe, have to go out and find my ego, which is now bloated and roaming free...somewhere, and have to stop it from trying to eat Arizona! :smalltongue: What's more, people are going to want to have me bronzed again. Or frozen in carbonite. Neither sounds like a pain-free experience. :smalleek:

Now, in all seriousness, I appreciate the words, sentiments, etc. But please don't forget all the others who come here and do their best to lend their aid to those in need. This is a group effort. Various perspectives rise from our debates on how best to combat an issue that appears on this thread, as well as numerous other threads that pop up. We are a true community, with our various strange characters, and we tend to work together. (Not sure who plays the role of town idiot, but he/she helps from time to time as well. :smallwink: )

I am not a savior. I am not a saint. I am a man, who fights a daily battle, and shares his experiences, good and bad, with the wondrous community I've found. And it's TOGETHER that we help one another.

Now...all of you running off to find materials to build a temple unto me...STOP! Just go forth and be well. :smallsmile:

(By the way...my PayPal account is...oh...never mind.)

:smalltongue:

[Ego Slayer]

(By the way...my PayPal account is...oh...never mind.)
Bor, if I had any money...

[Raiser Blade]

(By the way...my PayPal account is

Joy and jubilations!! Finally someone who wouold be willing to take all this extra money my long dead billionaire uncle gave to me.



...oh...never mind.)
:smalltongue:

..Oh well i guess i will end up giving Bill Gates that loan afterall.

:smallwink:

[zeratul]

Bor is hardcore. Now publish that book, because I need something to read before I reread Lord Of The Rings. So chop chop! And to finish.......

BOR FOR PREZ IN 2007!

(:smalltongue: )

[Lorn]

Well, I officially need to vent. And have for a long time, and seeing as nobody involved with these problems goes on here... I can.

This is going to be one hell of a long post. So it's spoilered. I wrote this as a means of getting things out of my head and in front of me so I could think about them clearly, I see no need to type it all out again when I have it copy/pastable.

May be a little swearing in there, don't know what the word filters are like on here...

NOTE: All information correct at time of writing.


Is this all I have in my life?

Get up. Go to school. Work for a few hours, go into Durham for lunch. Back at school, work two more hours.

Meet up with friends after school. Mess around in Durham for a while. Talk, eat, drink, whatever.

Go home however I feel. Walk, bus. Choice of two.

Spend the evening doing homework and talking to people on MSN. Maybe playing games as well.

Not a bad life, I suppose you might say. Normal maybe. Everyone else is fine with it, it seems simple, easy. Where's the problem?

I don't... work here. Not as in a schoolwork sense, I just.. well, I don't feel like I belong here. At all. Most of the people I hang around with I get on with OK, but there's a few I don't. Not that bad you say. Everyone has problems with some people. Right?

Ha. Funny.

Let's face it. I just don't fit in. It gets pretty harsh up here, and for someone like me... it's so hard to try and lead an ordinary life. Just so hard. I keep thinking give up, try and start again. Do something else, find new friends.

You know the problem with that? It's not going to happen. Not here.

Look at me. Just look. Look at me, and listen. I'm an autistic computer nerd in a long distance relationship who does Saxon historical reenactment. I don't make something out of the autistic part for the most part, I'll tell people I'm close with. Nobody else.

Thing is... remember that long distance relationship part?

It's... wrong. Sort of. And right. And heaven, yet hell at the same time. I can live with it, I have for almost seven months without a problem. Well, much of one.

I get along perfectly with my girlfriend. It's like I've known her my whole life, we just seem so.. right for each other. I've met her friends, well some of them at least.

A couple of months after I started talking to one of them, Gab, I realised I'd basically bared my soul to her. I'd said everything, she knew all of it. The autistic part, the computer nerd part, the LDR part (or, well, she knew I liked K... we weren't going out at that point) and she knew the reenactment part.

I started talking to others. I met people at Gab's birthday. I realised something.

I get along perfectly with them. Well, almost, and that's only because I haven't been hanging around with them that long... I don't know any injokes really, or anything like that. But given a week, two weeks, maybe three, it'd be like it is with my girlfriend - it'd be like I'd known them my whole life and I'd get along perfectly with them. Hell, I'm currently thinking about telling the rest about the autism part, and I only tell people I know I can trust about it. (or, GITPG, you lot, because I know that nobody else I know goes on here and I intend to come out about it at some point in the near future, probably)

That's a bit crap, really. Isn't it.

I can tell someone I've known for two, three months about my innermost secrets.

I can't tell someone I've known for five to nine years.

Why is it like this?

Down there, if I told them... it'd be like, OK, fine. It'd be over in a few minutes, ten at the most. They'd get over it, they probably wouldn't ever raise the subject again. They'd remember though, and if I was obviously running into trouble because of it, they'd almost certainly help.

Up here, if I told people... different story entirely. It'd never be over. They'd bring it up constantly, ridicule me for it, judge me because of something I told them no matter about my knowing them for several years beforehand. Their entire perception of me would change from "Walshy's OK, bit quiet but a good laugh" to "Walshy's socially inept, retarded and may even need help eating."

That doesn't just go for the people I hang around with. It goes for a lot of the people up here. I've told people, granted - but people I KNOW I can trust. Helen, for example. She's my closest friend up here. Know what? I see her less than once a month. Less than once every two months. Why? Because our groups do NOT mix, end of. We're the weird people in the corner, her group's the clever people, the popular people. The ones who always get everything. Win everything. Friendly with anyone.

Except, well, me. There's a long and complicated history between me and one member of her group which we will not under any circumstances go into ever, but the short of it is she acts like I don't exist, hates me. For crap I did when I really WAS socially inept. A lot of her group kind of seems to side with her and not like me, a lot of them just don’t like me, I don’t particularly like a fair few of them, and the rest just make me feel odd…

Why is it that up here, I can't trust people I've known for almost ten years, whereas down there, I can trust people I've known for about ten weeks? Why is it that up here, everyone has this mental image of me, that I'm a blundering, useless retard with the mental age of about two, maybe three, whereas down there people get on with me, like me, talk with me?

It's the people down there I talk to every day without fail. Four of them. My girlfriend, Gab, Megan and Laura.

I haven't met the rest of their group properly, but there's about three more of them.

I'm seriously considering trying to move down there. I've found a flat for about £525/month, sooo as long as I could get a decently paying part time job I'd have no problems. Seeing as my household income would then DEFINITELY be less than the EMA thing, I'd probably qualify for full - that's £30 a week.

Granted, I know things up here. How things work, how people act, my way around.

I hate it.

I hate every ****ing bit of it sometimes. I hate the fact that if you do something weird or odd, you could get laughed at for months. I hate that it's so ****ing harsh up here. I hate the bus companies, I hate the chavs, I hate the mental image and place in society people have built up for me going by what they thought I was like without talking to me when I was back in Y9 and 10, when I was depressed and so quiet I could go days only answering my name on the register. I even ****ing hate the village I live in, the town, the school I go to, the uniform for that school. The fact that on a bad day it could quite easily take over half an hour for a normally 10 minute bus journey home. I hate how people constantly backstab each other, I hate that people are so judgmental in my group. I hate the fact that I can't get out of my group, people everywhere else reject me.

More than anything else... I hate the fact that I fit into everything almost perfectly down in Cheadle. Not because I fit in, because at most I can get about a week of being fine, having fun, living my life the way I have always wanted to live my life - with friends, with people I care about and who care about me as well, with people I understand - a week in about a month and a half, if I'm lucky.

It's not right. Not right at all, it's just wrong. I hate how things have turned out up here for me, I want out. I want to start again. I want to have a chance at life, because I don't have a life here. I have an existence. It's not going anywhere, it's unlikely to ever go anywhere. Down there, it's different.

But then... well, what if I did move?

My family wouldn't come along, wouldn't be able to really. As much as we have our differences, for the most part I love them and I'd miss them. I'd miss days out with the group, I'd miss school, I'd miss the buses, I'd miss everything I hate.

More than anything, I'd miss Helen, to be honest. She means ****ing loads to me. Not as much as some other people, like my girlfriend, or Gab, but still ****ing loads. She's easily my closest friend up here. I’d be the first to say I love her, but only in a friends way of course.

I'd even miss not fitting in, I suppose. I'd even miss my room, the way it never gets properly dark, the way that light always shines through the curtains. I'd miss even going on MSN to talk to my friends down there, miss that moment of joy I get whenever I see "K has just signed in" or "Gabriella has just signed in." I mean... I'd see them in real life, that'd be better, but... well. Still different, if you know what I mean.

Now, there's one more complication.

6th form.

I've just started. AS levels, I have one and a half years or something of it and A2 levels, not including holidays.

Yeah, this is a problem in moving. I'd probably have to wait till the end of this year, and try and get a transfer. This would mean an interview in the 6th form centre down there, this would mean I'd have to get there a fair amount just before. I think I can do it, but... well, yeah. There's got to be people don't pass AS and don't get into A2 so I could take their place. That's my only hope in this.

Then I'd just have to get used to a completely new building... it wouldn't really be a problem, I think. I pick things up pretty fast.

But no matter how amazing my life turned out down there, I'd still miss up here. I'd miss the days, weeks of feeling like crap for whatever reason, be it just missing people down there or because someone up here was being a ****. I'd miss the crappy school building, the tiny town, everything really.

No matter how much I know I'd miss it though... well, I just realise how much I want to get out of here. Really, get out of here.

I can't take this for another two years. I need help. Please.



There’s been another complication. Thing. I don’t know.

I think I’m going mad.

I’ll find myself walking down a corridor at school or something sometimes. Realise I’ve been muttering nonsense under my breath for the past five minutes. Sometimes I’ll say things without consciously deciding to – things that don’t make sense, that I don’t mean. And only half of whatever it is.

I don’t know whether this is just the autism becoming more prevalent. I don’t really care, all I know is it’s not right. And I hate it.

It’s worst when I’m stressed, or depressed. Or embarrassed.

Thing is, the fact that I don’t know what the hell is going on, what’s happening inside my own head, is stressing me more. Depressing me more. When I walk down a corridor and realize I’ve been muttering about crap, it’s embarrassing.

Thing is… it’s sort of been happening a while. Just not verbally, and not this badly. I’ll sometimes just have weird random thoughts, pretty much always negative ones. I’ll just randomly think something, I don’t even realize I’m doing it till I am, I won’t necessarily want to, it just happens. Always incomplete sentences. Well… sort of. They always have the last word missed off, the subject missed off. Crap like “I ****ing hate…” and then it stops. I don’t know why. I don’t know why. I just want it to STOP. I don’t know why this is happening, I don’t know what it is causing it, I don’t know how to stop it – I can’t.

And that isn’t the end of it, I keep having these random… well, violent thoughts, almost. I’ll picture picking up, say, a stick, and hitting some random person over the head with it. I quash these thoughts in disgust whenever I have them but they don’t stop coming. I just want them to go away, but I can’t make them.

Please. I’m going mad, I can’t take this.

How long do I have before I really do go mad? Or until the violent thoughts end up surfacing too much? Or until something even worse happens?

It’s too much. HELP ME.


Yet another thing. Not a normal thing, far from it… first and only (if I get any say over it) time this will EVER happen.

My girlfriend had a sleepover a couple days ago. They started playing truth or dare.

They were a little tipsy.

Essentially, at one point my best and closest friend and my girlfriend were dared to kiss. Which they did.

And understandably I’m ****ing pissed off about that.

Seriously, if a guy was involved in this at all – especially Dan, her ex, who’s been making things as hard for me as he could – I would have ordered train tickets down there straight away. Arrived at 12 or 1 AM, slept on a bench in SOT or something and then hunted him down and beaten the crap out of him.

But it wasn’t.

It was one of my closer friends who dared them, and it was my best friend who was dared.

Dared to kiss my girlfriend. Who I’ve been going out with for, ooh, seven months. Who I very rarely see.

And I was, quite possibly, told in the most roundabout fashion possible. “oh, gab and kay kissed, but that’s all im going to say”

At least everything was explained about two seconds later… and at least the person who dared them had the grace to apologise. Not Gab, though, not until I mentioned that.

It’s a day after I first heard and I’m still massively pissed off.


Oh, now it’s a long time after. It still hasn’t healed up. I still don’t feel right about it. Thing is… people kept saying “it doesn’t matter” or “it doesn’t mean anything” or “it was just a dare.”

If it didn’t matter… why did it (and does it still) hurt so damn much?


Crap. Night before Halloween.

Bit of background here.

My parents hate Halloween.

They think it’s Satanic or something, and they’re Christian – enough to stop me celebrating it, sometimes even going out on it, for sixteen, seventeen years.

On that night, every night, sixteen years, I have sat and listened to thousands of people have fun. Listened to laughter, screams, childish glee I never got to participate in.

Listened as my parents said “Sorry, we don’t do Halloween. Come back at Christmas.”

A few times, I actually got beaten up the day after because people hadn’t got sweets from our house.

Now, me, I absolutely despise religion in all of its forms.

I have only ever seen Halloween, nowadays, as yet another commercialized holiday – and as a night of fun and games where, well, I’ve been left out of because my parents think it’s wrong.

Recently, even though I have technically been able to literally walk out of the house and do whatever I want for it, my social life’s been so crap that I haven’t even heard about anything happening, like parties and stuff that I could have gone to. So I’ve been sitting lonely again.

It’s so crap. So ****ing crap.


Oh, bollocking hell. New problem.

Love life… or sort of.

Basically, once more, a bit of background.

I absolutely hate hair dye. Really, hate. Hair’s one of the first things I look for in someone. And I generally really dislike unnatural stuff, like most makeup, piercing to some extend (don’t mind ears so much, but some I find genuinely disturbing) and larger tattoos. But more than anything else, I hate hair dye – because it’s practically the one thing you can not ignore. Or turn away from. To be completely honest, I think it generally makes people look like freaks, if it’s unnatural.

And guess what, my girlfriend decided to dye her hair.

Purple.

First I heard she’d decided, she said she’d got some dye. A few weeks later, she realized I don’t like it – well, got somewhere, but she probably did not realize the extent. She will soon though.

Then, one day, she signed onto MSN, and when I look at webcam, her hair’s ****ing purple.

I was surprised, shocked, and to tell the truth, a little bit revolted.

She didn’t even mention before she did it, that’s half the problem. We’re going through a bit of a tough time (well, myself definitely, and she knows this) and this was absolutely the worst possible time for this, to be honest. It took me completely by surprise, and guess what, I’m autistic. I lead a regimented, ordered lifestyle as much as possible, plan ahead with practically everything, I rarely even have a birthday without knowing what my family has got me. In Junior school, well, Y3, I had been known to literally throw a tantrum if I didn’t know what was coming up next. This is directly related to aforementioned autism, I know it is.

And suddenly, I’m confronted with this image of my girlfriend with PERNAMENT PURPLE HAIR DYE IN.

Meaning it won’t wear out for a VERY long time.

You know what? I absolutely hate how it looks, on webcam at least.

And, if I was being honest… I’m beginning to feel less physically attracted to her already because of it. She was beautiful before, and now she looks vaguely like a ****ing circus freak.

And there’s no longer a way to get rid of it, it’s been three days, so even if I could persuade her (something I wouldn’t do in the first place, because I’m nice… or try to be at least) then there’s no simple way to get the stuff out.

I mean, in person, she is going to ask what I think of it, she will. I know she will, I know her. I’m in two minds here over what to say.

If I’m to be completely honest, I’ll say I absolutely hate it.

If I’m to be not so completely honest, I’ll say I’m not a fan.

Thing is, the first one may end up making her feel crap. Second one, less likely – she already knows I dislike weird hair colours. Like purple.

Chrissakes, I honestly don’t know what to do here.

I know, I haven’t seen it in person.

But I can imagine, and imagine I will (and I can’t stop myself, aren’t I lucky) until I do.

To be honest, the single worst part is she didn’t say she was going to do it then before she did it. It’s a massive change, she KNEW it would affect me, she didn’t mention, and we’re going through a not so great bit at the moment, which will be addressed in the next entry. Which I’m about to write. Here it is.


Ok, here. So, why are we having a bit of a rough patch?

It’s been eight and a half months.

That’s great, I hear you say. Real accomplishment.

Thing is… it’s been eight and a half months, and she hasn’t said I love you to me.

I have to her, which makes it feel even worse, to be honest.

In eight and a half months, she seemingly has not decided she’s in love.

Is there honestly any chance she ever will at this point?

Seriously. If she doesn’t next time we meet up, and it doesn’t look like she will… there’ll be no more point going out, will there?

Thing is, she’s one of the best things to ever happen to me. I love her so much, it’ll break me in two if we do break up. And seeing as I’d be down for a weekend… yeah. Gab’s already told me that if it DOES happen, I can stay a night at her house, thankfully.

I don’t want this to end. Really, don’t. I would do anything to keep this going. But if she doesn’t love me, then why should I? What’s the point? She could find someone she actually CAN love, and all problems are solved if we break up.

For her at least.

I’d go through hell.

I’d never be able to kiss her again. Never be able to cuddle all night long. Never, ever be able to call her my girlfriend again, unless we got back together – and if the reason was the one above, we probably would not.

I don’t know how long I’d need to get over her. It’d be a long time, I don’t want to have to go through it. My parents definitely wouldn’t help, my “friends” would make things worse intentionally, and it’d play merry hell with my plans to move down – I’m confident we’d remain friends, but…

Ok, I’ll explain. Basically, if I was to move down and me and her are still together, then chances are I am literally going to ask her (via MSN) “do you want to rent a house/flat/whatever together for the gap year and go halves on it?”

Obviously, I’d hope she says yes. Not only does it lift a LOT of the financial strain from me, it means we can finally be properly together; something I’ve gone so far as to dream about, imagine, wish it was happening now.

****, I love her. I want to be with her so badly. We already know we can do a week no problem. Next summer (assuming the worst did not happen) we’ll try two. Summer after that, I look into renting a house/flat/whatever (hell, lodge if I have to) for a year. Just need to get away from up here, as I’ve said in the first entry, and now the end is in sight I am NOT going to give up.

Similarly, I am NOT going to just give up with her. I love her. This relationship CAN work, if she will ever love me back at least.

What she’s said to me concerning the subject, is that basically she’s not “really really really really sure.”

If I were to interpret it, I’d say that she thinks she does. I don’t want to hope, because if I’m wrong it’ll hurt much more. But… yeah. She’s said she won’t say it until she’s 100% sure, thing is, I didn’t know until I said I thought I did – and realized that I really meant it, didn’t regret saying etc. So then when she got off me, I said that actually, I knew I was.

I don’t want this to end. More than anything, I want it to keep going. I love her so much.

Don't feel you need to give advice, please. If you want to, it'd be appreciated, but... yeah. It's kind of a lot.

[Sisqui]

And it would seem that the kick in the pants I needed to get back to work on it was you people.

Sisqui in particular. I may disagree with "snap out of it" when it comes to mental health. It's hard to alter your way of thinking when the chemicals in your brain are doing goofy things to the way you think. When it comes to poor diabetes care, I believe "snap out of it" should be taken to the next level..."Snap out of it or I will beat you senseless."


Happy to provide any assistance I can. (And any alternative viewpoints :smallwink: )

And, of course, I am always happy to beat someone senseless :smallbiggrin:

Good luck with the book. I personally know a diabetic who, through his own indifference to the long term outcome of his personal choices, has lost a leg, an eye, and has almost died from multiple infections of his dialysis shunt. If you publish your book, I'll buy one just for him- even if it is pretty much moot at this point. :smallsmile:

EDIT: At Lorn- I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if she's changed her hair color (without telling you, knowing you're autistic), kisses your best friend, and says things like "Well, I'm not really sure I love you......." then I'd have to say she doesn't. And is probably hoping to not ever have to tell you so you don't get hurt. I might be wrong but that is the sense that I get about her from your post. Maybe someone else in the playground gets a different vibe......:smallfrown:

[phoenixineohp]

So... I uh... have run out of my meds again and though I have the prescription, I don't have it filled. Today is day two. I don't like it ever getting to day two because that's when I start to feel it. I've had discontinuation syndrome before and it was horrible. I think that maxed at 4 days before I was able to get some meds. And I never, ever, ever want to go through that again.

I just went by the drugstore and it was closed. I had forgotten they closed 2 hours early on Saturday. So my next chance is tomorrow morning. I'm already dizzy and my stomach is not happy. But I'm supposed to go out tonight to an event that is actually rather important to me, very rare and is making me nervous as is.

I don't know why I'm posting this. It's my dumb ass that didn't get the meds filled in time and ran out of my buffer. I know what I'm going to feel like. I'm kicking my self in my butt as is. Ugh.

Perhaps this is advice? Discontinuation syndrome is hell. Do not let it happen. Don't be a stupid as I am.

[Sisqui]

I don't know why I'm posting this. It's my dumb ass that didn't get the meds filled in time and ran out of my buffer. I know what I'm going to feel like. I'm kicking my self in my butt as is. Ugh.

Perhaps this is advice? Discontinuation syndrome is hell. Do not let it happen. Don't be a stupid as I am.

You can probably get through it OK. You just have to get through the next twelve hours or so. I hope your meds aren't something critical, like an asthma inhaler or something....... But, if you really get desperate, go to your local ER. If it truly is an emergency and you need the meds, an ER physician can probably get the hospital dispensary to give you some until the pharmacy opens. Good luck with your important function. Try to cut it short and go to bed early if you think it will help :smallsmile:

[phoenixineohp]

I think a light bulb may have just gone off in my head. That could be promising.

I hate it when the dizziness and lack of meds makes it so damn hard to get thinking done. I should have clued into this a while ago.

But... hope! Yay!

[Bor the Barbarian Monk]

Well, I officially need to vent. And have for a long time, and seeing as nobody involved with these problems goes on here... I can.

This is going to be one hell of a long post. So it's spoilered. I wrote this as a means of getting things out of my head and in front of me so I could think about them clearly, I see no need to type it all out again when I have it copy/pastable.

May be a little swearing in there, don't know what the word filters are like on here...

NOTE: All information correct at time of writing.


Is this all I have in my life?

Get up. Go to school. Work for a few hours, go into Durham for lunch. Back at school, work two more hours.

Meet up with friends after school. Mess around in Durham for a while. Talk, eat, drink, whatever.

Go home however I feel. Walk, bus. Choice of two.

Spend the evening doing homework and talking to people on MSN. Maybe playing games as well.

Not a bad life, I suppose you might say. Normal maybe. Everyone else is fine with it, it seems simple, easy. Where's the problem?

I don't... work here. Not as in a schoolwork sense, I just.. well, I don't feel like I belong here. At all. Most of the people I hang around with I get on with OK, but there's a few I don't. Not that bad you say. Everyone has problems with some people. Right?

Ha. Funny.

Let's face it. I just don't fit in. It gets pretty harsh up here, and for someone like me... it's so hard to try and lead an ordinary life. Just so hard. I keep thinking give up, try and start again. Do something else, find new friends.

You know the problem with that? It's not going to happen. Not here.

Look at me. Just look. Look at me, and listen. I'm an autistic computer nerd in a long distance relationship who does Saxon historical reenactment. I don't make something out of the autistic part for the most part, I'll tell people I'm close with. Nobody else.

Thing is... remember that long distance relationship part?

It's... wrong. Sort of. And right. And heaven, yet hell at the same time. I can live with it, I have for almost seven months without a problem. Well, much of one.

I get along perfectly with my girlfriend. It's like I've known her my whole life, we just seem so.. right for each other. I've met her friends, well some of them at least.

A couple of months after I started talking to one of them, Gab, I realised I'd basically bared my soul to her. I'd said everything, she knew all of it. The autistic part, the computer nerd part, the LDR part (or, well, she knew I liked K... we weren't going out at that point) and she knew the reenactment part.

I started talking to others. I met people at Gab's birthday. I realised something.

I get along perfectly with them. Well, almost, and that's only because I haven't been hanging around with them that long... I don't know any injokes really, or anything like that. But given a week, two weeks, maybe three, it'd be like it is with my girlfriend - it'd be like I'd known them my whole life and I'd get along perfectly with them. Hell, I'm currently thinking about telling the rest about the autism part, and I only tell people I know I can trust about it. (or, GITPG, you lot, because I know that nobody else I know goes on here and I intend to come out about it at some point in the near future, probably)

That's a bit crap, really. Isn't it.

I can tell someone I've known for two, three months about my innermost secrets.

I can't tell someone I've known for five to nine years.

Why is it like this?

Down there, if I told them... it'd be like, OK, fine. It'd be over in a few minutes, ten at the most. They'd get over it, they probably wouldn't ever raise the subject again. They'd remember though, and if I was obviously running into trouble because of it, they'd almost certainly help.

Up here, if I told people... different story entirely. It'd never be over. They'd bring it up constantly, ridicule me for it, judge me because of something I told them no matter about my knowing them for several years beforehand. Their entire perception of me would change from "Walshy's OK, bit quiet but a good laugh" to "Walshy's socially inept, retarded and may even need help eating."

That doesn't just go for the people I hang around with. It goes for a lot of the people up here. I've told people, granted - but people I KNOW I can trust. Helen, for example. She's my closest friend up here. Know what? I see her less than once a month. Less than once every two months. Why? Because our groups do NOT mix, end of. We're the weird people in the corner, her group's the clever people, the popular people. The ones who always get everything. Win everything. Friendly with anyone.

Except, well, me. There's a long and complicated history between me and one member of her group which we will not under any circumstances go into ever, but the short of it is she acts like I don't exist, hates me. For crap I did when I really WAS socially inept. A lot of her group kind of seems to side with her and not like me, a lot of them just don’t like me, I don’t particularly like a fair few of them, and the rest just make me feel odd…

Why is it that up here, I can't trust people I've known for almost ten years, whereas down there, I can trust people I've known for about ten weeks? Why is it that up here, everyone has this mental image of me, that I'm a blundering, useless retard with the mental age of about two, maybe three, whereas down there people get on with me, like me, talk with me?

It's the people down there I talk to every day without fail. Four of them. My girlfriend, Gab, Megan and Laura.

I haven't met the rest of their group properly, but there's about three more of them.

I'm seriously considering trying to move down there. I've found a flat for about £525/month, sooo as long as I could get a decently paying part time job I'd have no problems. Seeing as my household income would then DEFINITELY be less than the EMA thing, I'd probably qualify for full - that's £30 a week.

Granted, I know things up here. How things work, how people act, my way around.

I hate it.

I hate every ****ing bit of it sometimes. I hate the fact that if you do something weird or odd, you could get laughed at for months. I hate that it's so ****ing harsh up here. I hate the bus companies, I hate the chavs, I hate the mental image and place in society people have built up for me going by what they thought I was like without talking to me when I was back in Y9 and 10, when I was depressed and so quiet I could go days only answering my name on the register. I even ****ing hate the village I live in, the town, the school I go to, the uniform for that school. The fact that on a bad day it could quite easily take over half an hour for a normally 10 minute bus journey home. I hate how people constantly backstab each other, I hate that people are so judgmental in my group. I hate the fact that I can't get out of my group, people everywhere else reject me.

More than anything else... I hate the fact that I fit into everything almost perfectly down in Cheadle. Not because I fit in, because at most I can get about a week of being fine, having fun, living my life the way I have always wanted to live my life - with friends, with people I care about and who care about me as well, with people I understand - a week in about a month and a half, if I'm lucky.

It's not right. Not right at all, it's just wrong. I hate how things have turned out up here for me, I want out. I want to start again. I want to have a chance at life, because I don't have a life here. I have an existence. It's not going anywhere, it's unlikely to ever go anywhere. Down there, it's different.

But then... well, what if I did move?

My family wouldn't come along, wouldn't be able to really. As much as we have our differences, for the most part I love them and I'd miss them. I'd miss days out with the group, I'd miss school, I'd miss the buses, I'd miss everything I hate.

More than anything, I'd miss Helen, to be honest. She means ****ing loads to me. Not as much as some other people, like my girlfriend, or Gab, but still ****ing loads. She's easily my closest friend up here. I’d be the first to say I love her, but only in a friends way of course.

I'd even miss not fitting in, I suppose. I'd even miss my room, the way it never gets properly dark, the way that light always shines through the curtains. I'd miss even going on MSN to talk to my friends down there, miss that moment of joy I get whenever I see "K has just signed in" or "Gabriella has just signed in." I mean... I'd see them in real life, that'd be better, but... well. Still different, if you know what I mean.

Now, there's one more complication.

6th form.

I've just started. AS levels, I have one and a half years or something of it and A2 levels, not including holidays.

Yeah, this is a problem in moving. I'd probably have to wait till the end of this year, and try and get a transfer. This would mean an interview in the 6th form centre down there, this would mean I'd have to get there a fair amount just before. I think I can do it, but... well, yeah. There's got to be people don't pass AS and don't get into A2 so I could take their place. That's my only hope in this.

Then I'd just have to get used to a completely new building... it wouldn't really be a problem, I think. I pick things up pretty fast.

But no matter how amazing my life turned out down there, I'd still miss up here. I'd miss the days, weeks of feeling like crap for whatever reason, be it just missing people down there or because someone up here was being a ****. I'd miss the crappy school building, the tiny town, everything really.

No matter how much I know I'd miss it though... well, I just realise how much I want to get out of here. Really, get out of here.

I can't take this for another two years. I need help. Please.



There’s been another complication. Thing. I don’t know.

I think I’m going mad.

I’ll find myself walking down a corridor at school or something sometimes. Realise I’ve been muttering nonsense under my breath for the past five minutes. Sometimes I’ll say things without consciously deciding to – things that don’t make sense, that I don’t mean. And only half of whatever it is.

I don’t know whether this is just the autism becoming more prevalent. I don’t really care, all I know is it’s not right. And I hate it.

It’s worst when I’m stressed, or depressed. Or embarrassed.

Thing is, the fact that I don’t know what the hell is going on, what’s happening inside my own head, is stressing me more. Depressing me more. When I walk down a corridor and realize I’ve been muttering about crap, it’s embarrassing.

Thing is… it’s sort of been happening a while. Just not verbally, and not this badly. I’ll sometimes just have weird random thoughts, pretty much always negative ones. I’ll just randomly think something, I don’t even realize I’m doing it till I am, I won’t necessarily want to, it just happens. Always incomplete sentences. Well… sort of. They always have the last word missed off, the subject missed off. Crap like “I ****ing hate…” and then it stops. I don’t know why. I don’t know why. I just want it to STOP. I don’t know why this is happening, I don’t know what it is causing it, I don’t know how to stop it – I can’t.

And that isn’t the end of it, I keep having these random… well, violent thoughts, almost. I’ll picture picking up, say, a stick, and hitting some random person over the head with it. I quash these thoughts in disgust whenever I have them but they don’t stop coming. I just want them to go away, but I can’t make them.

Please. I’m going mad, I can’t take this.

How long do I have before I really do go mad? Or until the violent thoughts end up surfacing too much? Or until something even worse happens?

It’s too much. HELP ME.


Yet another thing. Not a normal thing, far from it… first and only (if I get any say over it) time this will EVER happen.

My girlfriend had a sleepover a couple days ago. They started playing truth or dare.

They were a little tipsy.

Essentially, at one point my best and closest friend and my girlfriend were dared to kiss. Which they did.

And understandably I’m ****ing pissed off about that.

Seriously, if a guy was involved in this at all – especially Dan, her ex, who’s been making things as hard for me as he could – I would have ordered train tickets down there straight away. Arrived at 12 or 1 AM, slept on a bench in SOT or something and then hunted him down and beaten the crap out of him.

But it wasn’t.

It was one of my closer friends who dared them, and it was my best friend who was dared.

Dared to kiss my girlfriend. Who I’ve been going out with for, ooh, seven months. Who I very rarely see.

And I was, quite possibly, told in the most roundabout fashion possible. “oh, gab and kay kissed, but that’s all im going to say”

At least everything was explained about two seconds later… and at least the person who dared them had the grace to apologise. Not Gab, though, not until I mentioned that.

It’s a day after I first heard and I’m still massively pissed off.


Oh, now it’s a long time after. It still hasn’t healed up. I still don’t feel right about it. Thing is… people kept saying “it doesn’t matter” or “it doesn’t mean anything” or “it was just a dare.”

If it didn’t matter… why did it (and does it still) hurt so damn much?


Crap. Night before Halloween.

Bit of background here.

My parents hate Halloween.

They think it’s Satanic or something, and they’re Christian – enough to stop me celebrating it, sometimes even going out on it, for sixteen, seventeen years.

On that night, every night, sixteen years, I have sat and listened to thousands of people have fun. Listened to laughter, screams, childish glee I never got to participate in.

Listened as my parents said “Sorry, we don’t do Halloween. Come back at Christmas.”

A few times, I actually got beaten up the day after because people hadn’t got sweets from our house.

Now, me, I absolutely despise religion in all of its forms.

I have only ever seen Halloween, nowadays, as yet another commercialized holiday – and as a night of fun and games where, well, I’ve been left out of because my parents think it’s wrong.

Recently, even though I have technically been able to literally walk out of the house and do whatever I want for it, my social life’s been so crap that I haven’t even heard about anything happening, like parties and stuff that I could have gone to. So I’ve been sitting lonely again.

It’s so crap. So ****ing crap.


Oh, bollocking hell. New problem.

Love life… or sort of.

Basically, once more, a bit of background.

I absolutely hate hair dye. Really, hate. Hair’s one of the first things I look for in someone. And I generally really dislike unnatural stuff, like most makeup, piercing to some extend (don’t mind ears so much, but some I find genuinely disturbing) and larger tattoos. But more than anything else, I hate hair dye – because it’s practically the one thing you can not ignore. Or turn away from. To be completely honest, I think it generally makes people look like freaks, if it’s unnatural.

And guess what, my girlfriend decided to dye her hair.

Purple.

First I heard she’d decided, she said she’d got some dye. A few weeks later, she realized I don’t like it – well, got somewhere, but she probably did not realize the extent. She will soon though.

Then, one day, she signed onto MSN, and when I look at webcam, her hair’s ****ing purple.

I was surprised, shocked, and to tell the truth, a little bit revolted.

She didn’t even mention before she did it, that’s half the problem. We’re going through a bit of a tough time (well, myself definitely, and she knows this) and this was absolutely the worst possible time for this, to be honest. It took me completely by surprise, and guess what, I’m autistic. I lead a regimented, ordered lifestyle as much as possible, plan ahead with practically everything, I rarely even have a birthday without knowing what my family has got me. In Junior school, well, Y3, I had been known to literally throw a tantrum if I didn’t know what was coming up next. This is directly related to aforementioned autism, I know it is.

And suddenly, I’m confronted with this image of my girlfriend with PERNAMENT PURPLE HAIR DYE IN.

Meaning it won’t wear out for a VERY long time.

You know what? I absolutely hate how it looks, on webcam at least.

And, if I was being honest… I’m beginning to feel less physically attracted to her already because of it. She was beautiful before, and now she looks vaguely like a ****ing circus freak.

And there’s no longer a way to get rid of it, it’s been three days, so even if I could persuade her (something I wouldn’t do in the first place, because I’m nice… or try to be at least) then there’s no simple way to get the stuff out.

I mean, in person, she is going to ask what I think of it, she will. I know she will, I know her. I’m in two minds here over what to say.

If I’m to be completely honest, I’ll say I absolutely hate it.

If I’m to be not so completely honest, I’ll say I’m not a fan.

Thing is, the first one may end up making her feel crap. Second one, less likely – she already knows I dislike weird hair colours. Like purple.

Chrissakes, I honestly don’t know what to do here.

I know, I haven’t seen it in person.

But I can imagine, and imagine I will (and I can’t stop myself, aren’t I lucky) until I do.

To be honest, the single worst part is she didn’t say she was going to do it then before she did it. It’s a massive change, she KNEW it would affect me, she didn’t mention, and we’re going through a not so great bit at the moment, which will be addressed in the next entry. Which I’m about to write. Here it is.


Ok, here. So, why are we having a bit of a rough patch?

It’s been eight and a half months.

That’s great, I hear you say. Real accomplishment.

Thing is… it’s been eight and a half months, and she hasn’t said I love you to me.

I have to her, which makes it feel even worse, to be honest.

In eight and a half months, she seemingly has not decided she’s in love.

Is there honestly any chance she ever will at this point?

Seriously. If she doesn’t next time we meet up, and it doesn’t look like she will… there’ll be no more point going out, will there?

Thing is, she’s one of the best things to ever happen to me. I love her so much, it’ll break me in two if we do break up. And seeing as I’d be down for a weekend… yeah. Gab’s already told me that if it DOES happen, I can stay a night at her house, thankfully.

I don’t want this to end. Really, don’t. I would do anything to keep this going. But if she doesn’t love me, then why should I? What’s the point? She could find someone she actually CAN love, and all problems are solved if we break up.

For her at least.

I’d go through hell.

I’d never be able to kiss her again. Never be able to cuddle all night long. Never, ever be able to call her my girlfriend again, unless we got back together – and if the reason was the one above, we probably would not.

I don’t know how long I’d need to get over her. It’d be a long time, I don’t want to have to go through it. My parents definitely wouldn’t help, my “friends” would make things worse intentionally, and it’d play merry hell with my plans to move down – I’m confident we’d remain friends, but…

Ok, I’ll explain. Basically, if I was to move down and me and her are still together, then chances are I am literally going to ask her (via MSN) “do you want to rent a house/flat/whatever together for the gap year and go halves on it?”

Obviously, I’d hope she says yes. Not only does it lift a LOT of the financial strain from me, it means we can finally be properly together; something I’ve gone so far as to dream about, imagine, wish it was happening now.

****, I love her. I want to be with her so badly. We already know we can do a week no problem. Next summer (assuming the worst did not happen) we’ll try two. Summer after that, I look into renting a house/flat/whatever (hell, lodge if I have to) for a year. Just need to get away from up here, as I’ve said in the first entry, and now the end is in sight I am NOT going to give up.

Similarly, I am NOT going to just give up with her. I love her. This relationship CAN work, if she will ever love me back at least.

What she’s said to me concerning the subject, is that basically she’s not “really really really really sure.”

If I were to interpret it, I’d say that she thinks she does. I don’t want to hope, because if I’m wrong it’ll hurt much more. But… yeah. She’s said she won’t say it until she’s 100% sure, thing is, I didn’t know until I said I thought I did – and realized that I really meant it, didn’t regret saying etc. So then when she got off me, I said that actually, I knew I was.

I don’t want this to end. More than anything, I want it to keep going. I love her so much.

Don't feel you need to give advice, please. If you want to, it'd be appreciated, but... yeah. It's kind of a lot.
Ah, the irony...All that praise flowing from my would-be fans, and I am completely flummoxed by Lorn's post. And why am I so bent out of shape? Because I've been there, done that, etc. And my choices all look like mistakes. They say hindsight is 20/20, yet I can't see how I could have imporved on anything I did in such circumstances.

I chased a girl 2600 miles to be with her, and we broke up within three weeks. It took us a year and a half to get back together, and then it all crumbled when my health started taking a dive. And all of the friends I thought I wouldn't miss? I miss them terribly now. The new friends I thought I'd made? They ran for the hills when they realized I was damaged goods.

So how do I help someone like Lorn? I want to run to a phone booth (which is a rare find anywhere these days), put on tights (no one wants to see me in), and use the superpowers (I don't have) to rescue him from personal turmoil. And I can't even rescue myself!

"Life sucks. Man-up and deal with it." Well, such advice never worked well for me, and to toss it at someone else seems entirely too harsh. Especially when there are extenuating circumstances, such as his autism. (I must admit, though, that for someone with autism, you communicate very well, Lorn!)

Lorn, without having the wisdom to help you, I will do that which I tend to do when words fail me...

Here are two *HUGS!* Use one now, and keep the other in your pocket for emergencies.

Oh...And PXP: as I have been foolish and gone without my meds myself, I can understand in my own way what you're going through. Thus, you also get two *HUGS!* Use one now, and keep the other in your pocket for when you forget to refill your meds on a timely basis. :smallsmile:

[bluewind95]

I feel perfectly depressed right now, and have barely stopped crying for several days... but... seeing people post about real problems here and such... I really can't bring myself to talk about my depression.


Anyways...

Phoenixineohp.... yeah, the best thing you can do if it's not an emergency is go to sleep earlier than usual. I generally find sleep to be much like an aspirin when it comes to not feeling well. Don't forget to get your meds ASAP tomorrow. :smalltongue:

Bor, I'm glad you've found motivation to continue your book. I wish you luck with that and I'd like to read it when you publish it.

Lorn... I can understand your feeling of missing what you have, even the bad things. I'm sure you wouldn't usually like change. But... if things are going badly for you, maybe you ought to weight the pros and cons of it and take a decision, like maybe moving in the future. Much as you'd miss some things, maybe it would be better for you in the long run. As for your girlfriend... if she says she doubts if she loves you... maybe you really ought to stay away.

[phoenixineohp]

I feel perfectly depressed right now, and have barely stopped crying for several days... but... seeing people post about real problems here and such... I really can't bring myself to talk about my depression.


I respect not wanting to talk about things, but I also believe than anyone who feels depressed and is experiencing that should know that they can talk about it here, as I know that real problems are anything that can cause those feelings.


As for my case...

It's a really, really bad idea for me to miss them like this. And yes, last time it was almost at the point where I was going to the ER. But I found a walk in clinic that took me thankfully. (That was more complicated due to my health card, bank card, money and back up script all being in my wallet which was in a different town.)

The lightbulb that went off in my head reminded me that I had a new prescription and not a refill to get. If I have a refill, there is no point in going to the 24 hour pharmacy since they need to deal with the place the original came from, during their office hours, to authorize it. Since I had already seen that the original place was closed, it was no use. But I didn't have a refill...

So quick cab ride to the 24 hour pharmacy and I am in line for the script. But the guy ahead of me had 8 things to get. So the pharmacist tells me that I would be best off coming back later that night or tomorrow morning due to the wait.

Umm... no, that's not a good idea. I need those pills as soon a physically possible. (Knowing that they are just behind the counter and not avaiable is so darn frustrating. What takes so long to count out pills? I know there must be something, like records, but it still frustrates me.) So I explain to the guy what is going on and that I either need them right now, or I need my dose right now and then I can come back the next day. He asks me a bit about the symptoms I am having, and agrees that it is the start of the Discontinuation syndrome. He understands and gets me the dose and even some water to take it with. I think I could hug that guy right now.

So I have them in my system, it won't get worse and I will have lots of the meds tomorrow when I pick them up. I also decided not to go to the event, which I think was a smart choice. I still feel horrible, both physically and mentally, but I'm also really happy that I got them. Knocking myself out would have been the next best option, but the symptoms would have continued and progressed. So... happy. :smallsmile:

I'm really glad I posted. Otherwise that light bulb may not have gone off. Thank you guys and thanks for the pair of hugs Bor. I'm going to try to make sure I don't need that second one. :smallwink:

[ZombieRockStar]

Okay, I have a rant here and it isn't so much advice as a theory, really. I wanted to see what people who know more about this than me think.

I have a particular dislike of the word "emo." First, because people almost never understand what it means when they say it. They don't know anything about the subculture/genre of music that it relates to. Second, because I always see it being used as a pejorative when it shouldn't be. It's used to casually dismiss anything melancholy as just "emo."

I think one of the biggest problems with feeling sad is that there is often a sense of guilt attached to it. Not only do you feel sad, but you think that you shouldn't feel sad. That it's a bad thing to feel sad, and this just makes it worse, because you feel bad about feeling bad. This becomes a huge barrier to actually feeling better because the guilt doesn't allow you to actively work through what you're feeling.

This guilt, I'm relatively sure, comes from society. Cheap pop-psychology, opinions of others; they all treat melancholy as if it wasn't a valid emotion. Hence the word "emo" as a pejorative. Never mind if the person in question is actually part of the subculture or listens to the music. It's just stuck on to trivialize their emotions.

Also, more importantly and relevant to this thread, is the advice to simply "snap out of it." This doesn't work. All it does, I find, is make the person feel worse because it emphasizes how bad it is for them to feel sad. It also only encourages repression, which is just as bad with sadness as it is with anger. Really, this is probably the worst advice you can give to anyone feeling down. You probably think that it gives you some sort of "hard truth" veneer...no. Just, no. It just makes whoever you were "advising" feel worse. Plus, I'd say that you've only said it to make yourself feel superior. That's not advice; that's bullying.

Sadness is something I think you really have to experience. You have to work through it if you want to understand it. I mean, there's actual depression, which is dangerous, but I think there's something to be said for just letting yourself feel sad from time to time and trying to understand the emotion. I'm a big fan of using a creative outlet to work through this. It's always how I do it when I feel bad. Listen to depressing music or write poetry. This actually brings me back to "emo" and how people will look at some poetry and call it "emotry." Poetry written like this is awful, I know, but that's not the point. It's very useful to have a sort of dialogue with yourself in this way, to help you understand. Almost like giving yourself advice, and understanding is the first thing anyone advising needs.

Of course, that doesn't apply to clinical depression. But what I think guilt does there is even worse, because it trivializes it and keeps the person from seeking actual help, because they don't think the depression is real. I do lurk in this thread and the advice I see handed out for actual depression is "get professional help." This is very good advice, but it won't be followed by someone who thinks that depression isn't legitimate.

Okay...I'm done with this whole "make myself feel intelligent with an semi-educated rant" thing. My point is that I really think this thread is very useful simply because of it's nature. Reading through, I notice a few comments about how just the act of posting your troubles helps, which is kinda what I was talking about with letting yourself feel it and sort through it. Catharsis, really, is all I've been saying. But also that anyone who thinks that "snap out of it" is realistic, helpful, or appropriate advice, or that any "tough love" approach is at all proper, is simply wrong.

Like I said...this is more a theory than anything, so tell me what you think, please.

[Sisqui]

Also, more importantly and relevant to this thread, is the advice to simply "snap out of it." This doesn't work. All it does, I find, is make the person feel worse because it emphasizes how bad it is for them to feel sad. It also only encourages repression, which is just as bad with sadness as it is with anger. Really, this is probably the worst advice you can give to anyone feeling down. You probably think that it gives you some sort of "hard truth" veneer...no. Just, no. It just makes whoever you were "advising" feel worse. Plus, I'd say that you've only said it to make yourself feel superior. That's not advice; that's bullying.

I think it depends on how you interpret the words "snap out of it". Some people say them in a derogatory way, really as if to say that the recipient of those words is nothing more than an annoyance to them. However, there is another way that those words can be meant. Now, I don't say "snap out of it" per se, because I've been through major clinical depression and I know that isn't what I wanted to hear at the time. But, not wanting to hear the truth doesn't make that truth any less of a reality. When someone says "snap out of it" in a beneficent way, what they mean is that you have to realize that your mental attitude is part of the problem. In fact, it is the problem. And sooner or later you have to realize that your attitudes and emotions are the part of you you have to confront to get better. You have to take the initiative, steel yourself for some very, very unpleasant introspection, and most of all- admit guilt. Yes, you have to analyze your behavior and determine where your own behavior and choices have led you to where you are now. Not for the sake of wallowing in it- just despairing and saying "Woe is me"- but for the purpose of weeding out all of the things that are not your fault, that you did not have control over. Those things have to be sucked up, quite frankly- you can't change what you can't control. But, for those things that you did and do have control over- you are the responsible party if they have messed up your life. And I'm not talking about drugs or promiscuity or anything like that (well, unless they apply) but mostly to those things depressives do that just reinforce their feelings of depression and isolation. Deliberately sitting at home, not calling friends, and crying all day IS PART OF THE PROBLEM not just a symptom! What I learned from my own experience is that the sadness will stay with you wherever you go. And, if all you do is isolate yourself, you will have no joy to dilute your sorrows. You will simply refine and purify your despair. And this is the part that meds cannot do for you. You can pop every pill in the pharmacy, but if YOU don't make the decision to go out and grab something good in life, it certainly isn't going to fall in your lap at home. This is the essence of "snap out of it" to me. Not in, "Just get over yourself, there's nothing really wrong with you". My understanding of those words is exactly that- understanding. Whatever other help you get, be it professional or pharmaceutical- YOU have to adjust your thinking for any of it to work. You have to adjust your behavior. There just is no other option. As I said, I don't use the phrase "snap out of it" but if I did, I'd mean it to say that you really do have a problem- now, having admitted that- what are you going to DO about it? Actions solve the problem, and the first- and believe me, the absolute hardest- thing you have to do, is to change your mindset from "There's nothing I can do" to "OK, what I'm doing right now isn't helping, so what else can I do?" So, if any part of this particular post was aimed at what I have been saying in this thread, rest assured that you have misinterpreted what I meant. I DO NOT think people have no problem. But I do think it is all too easy to misunderstand just what that problem is. Is your problem solely a chemical imbalance (which is pretty damn rare) or is there something you are doing that reinforces and strengthens the problem? Some people are chronically depressed and have no idea why. They do all the things I advocate but don't feel any better. Those people have a genuine need for antidepressants. Maybe they always will- I was told by several doctors that there was no other solution for me- that I would literally always be dependent on meds. Several years later, I damn well beg to differ. And this is the problem I think a lot of people have. Most people do not have some chemical imbalance that prevents them from functioning normally- they have an attitude problem that prevents them from functioning normally. And their behavior does nothing but reinforce their learned helplessness. Now, believe me, that is a REAL problem. That sense of inertia can rob you of all semblance of a productive and happy life. There is nothing superficial about it. But the only way to correct it is to examine your life AND HOW YOU LIVE IT and make the changes necessary to pull yourself out of it. That may mean taking meds to help you get up and get going. But you have to go one step further in your thinking about the problem- get going to DO WHAT? The meds may be part of the process- BUT THEY ARE NOT ITS GOAL. Part of the "learned helplessness" that I think a lot of people have is the new acceptance of med dependency to combat depression. Doctors are essentially telling people that they can't do it themselves, that they are too weak to do so and therefore must take meds. I really hate that, because these doctors are subconsciously reinforcing the very helplessness they purport to help you get over. If you really want to get over the despair and the feelings of helplessness and hopelessness, you have to look inward to decide what you want in life and then look outward to see what you can DO to accomplish it.

Sadness is something I think you really have to experience. You have to work through it if you want to understand it. I mean, there's actual depression, which is dangerous, but I think there's something to be said for just letting yourself feel sad from time to time and trying to understand the emotion. I'm a big fan of using a creative outlet to work through this. It's always how I do it when I feel bad. Listen to depressing music or write poetry. This actually brings me back to "emo" and how people will look at some poetry and call it "emotry." Poetry written like this is awful, I know, but that's not the point. It's very useful to have a sort of dialogue with yourself in this way, to help you understand. Almost like giving yourself advice, and understanding is the first thing anyone advising needs.

While examining sadness to find its source is a productive endeavor, it is also a dangerous thing to do. There is a good argument to be made that feelings like this broaden your range of life experience and therefore deepen your understanding of it and of the human condition. But there is a very fine line there that takes a lot of self control- to indulge in this kind of introspection without falling into the trap of wallowing in it. Part of the seductive nature of "incurable depression" is the positive association people today have with the "victim status" it confers. If you tell someone you have this condition, you are met with approval and positive feedback. People tell you how brave you are in dealing with it etc... And this attention can fill the need that depressives have to feel better. They borrow the well wishes of others to bolster their own flagging spirits. Now, a lot of people say "Oh, you just want attention" as if the attention of other people and their positive responses to you aren't a basic human need. If people have to use a depression as a tool to get attention from others.....they DO have a problem. Not one requiring meds, I think, but that does not make it any less of a problem. It just means that taking meds to solve it is like chewing gum to stop a boat from sinking- its a non sequitur. Taking drugs to make you feel better about problems that you haven't corrected isn't therapy- it's getting stoned legally so you don't really have to deal with your problems. People will say that telling someone they are attention seeking delegitimizes their depression- I would say that telling someone you are a depressive can delegitimize the basic need for attention. Inherent in doing so is the idea that the only way getting attention from others is appropriate is to claim you are medically ill.

Of course, that doesn't apply to clinical depression. But what I think guilt does there is even worse, because it trivializes it and keeps the person from seeking actual help, because they don't think the depression is real. I do lurk in this thread and the advice I see handed out for actual depression is "get professional help." This is very good advice, but it won't be followed by someone who thinks that depression isn't legitimate.

This is why I think the word depression should be differentiated from the DIAGNOSIS depression. There is a vast difference between having a medical condition based on physiological aberration and in just feeling the bad emotions that come from a simply being human. And "guilt" might be the wrong word here. Fault might work better. If you refuse to develop viable coping skills in life, then yes, you ARE at fault for your depression. That may not be what you want to hear, but it sure as Hell is what you NEED to hear, because you can't correct a problem if you refuse to accept that it exists. And feeling depressed- for any reason- is legitimate. But if there are different causes for the depression, there need to be different solutions. If your depression is caused by being unable to deal with the problems in your life- that is NOT a medical condition and a medical solution will only enable you in your avoidance of responsibility.

Okay...I'm done with this whole "make myself feel intelligent with an semi-educated rant" thing. My point is that I really think this thread is very useful simply because of it's nature. Reading through, I notice a few comments about how just the act of posting your troubles helps, which is kinda what I was talking about with letting yourself feel it and sort through it. Catharsis, really, is all I've been saying. But also that anyone who thinks that "snap out of it" is realistic, helpful, or appropriate advice, or that any "tough love" approach is at all proper, is simply wrong.

Well, I don't consider my advice to be gospel, but I DO know that these are the answers that worked for me. WORKED- as in produced actual, measurable results.
Like I said...this is more a theory than anything, so tell me what you think, please.

At least, that is how I think about things. I think that the best outcome of having these two points of view posted here is that people come here for a myriad of reasons. Hopefully, whatever the cause of an individual's need to post here, there exists posted advice that will help them. To those who need the perspective of people like ZRS and Bor to get better, your advice is here for them to consider. And for those who truly are in need of a different point of view for healing, there is mine. I think the type of advice you need depends on the causes of the problems you have.

In any case, people struggling to deal with depression have something worth far more than my sympathy- they have my encouragement and respect. It is a hard, hard battle to win. But that DOES NOT mean that winning isn't possible. :smallsmile:

[Bor the Barbarian Monk]

Okay, I have a rant here and it isn't so much advice as a theory, really. I wanted to see what people who know more about this than me think.

I have a particular dislike of the word "emo." First, because people almost never understand what it means when they say it. They don't know anything about the subculture/genre of music that it relates to. Second, because I always see it being used as a pejorative when it shouldn't be. It's used to casually dismiss anything melancholy as just "emo."

I think one of the biggest problems with feeling sad is that there is often a sense of guilt attached to it. Not only do you feel sad, but you think that you shouldn't feel sad. That it's a bad thing to feel sad, and this just makes it worse, because you feel bad about feeling bad. This becomes a huge barrier to actually feeling better because the guilt doesn't allow you to actively work through what you're feeling.

This guilt, I'm relatively sure, comes from society. Cheap pop-psychology, opinions of others; they all treat melancholy as if it wasn't a valid emotion. Hence the word "emo" as a pejorative. Never mind if the person in question is actually part of the subculture or listens to the music. It's just stuck on to trivialize their emotions.

Also, more importantly and relevant to this thread, is the advice to simply "snap out of it." This doesn't work. All it does, I find, is make the person feel worse because it emphasizes how bad it is for them to feel sad. It also only encourages repression, which is just as bad with sadness as it is with anger. Really, this is probably the worst advice you can give to anyone feeling down. You probably think that it gives you some sort of "hard truth" veneer...no. Just, no. It just makes whoever you were "advising" feel worse. Plus, I'd say that you've only said it to make yourself feel superior. That's not advice; that's bullying.

Sadness is something I think you really have to experience. You have to work through it if you want to understand it. I mean, there's actual depression, which is dangerous, but I think there's something to be said for just letting yourself feel sad from time to time and trying to understand the emotion. I'm a big fan of using a creative outlet to work through this. It's always how I do it when I feel bad. Listen to depressing music or write poetry. This actually brings me back to "emo" and how people will look at some poetry and call it "emotry." Poetry written like this is awful, I know, but that's not the point. It's very useful to have a sort of dialogue with yourself in this way, to help you understand. Almost like giving yourself advice, and understanding is the first thing anyone advising needs.

Of course, that doesn't apply to clinical depression. But what I think guilt does there is even worse, because it trivializes it and keeps the person from seeking actual help, because they don't think the depression is real. I do lurk in this thread and the advice I see handed out for actual depression is "get professional help." This is very good advice, but it won't be followed by someone who thinks that depression isn't legitimate.

Okay...I'm done with this whole "make myself feel intelligent with an semi-educated rant" thing. My point is that I really think this thread is very useful simply because of it's nature. Reading through, I notice a few comments about how just the act of posting your troubles helps, which is kinda what I was talking about with letting yourself feel it and sort through it. Catharsis, really, is all I've been saying. But also that anyone who thinks that "snap out of it" is realistic, helpful, or appropriate advice, or that any "tough love" approach is at all proper, is simply wrong.

Like I said...this is more a theory than anything, so tell me what you think, please.
Heya, ZRS. Thanks for stopping in. Hippie has fresh coffee going in the lounge, and I think someone is baking cookies in the back. :smallsmile:

I'll start with an attack on this word, "emo." In fact, I'll attack it using a concept that was handed over to me by a 14-year-old. (That was her age at the time. She's 16 now.)

Some of you might remember my tale of Lizzy, how I met her when she was dying, and how she's alive and well, thanks to a bone marrow transplant. As with any teen proud of her MySpace page, she showed it to me. One of her blog entries went off on "emo" in a less than elloquent way...but the message was clear. "Emo" is short for emotional. If you are human, you have emotions. If you have emotions, you are emotional. Thus, EVEREYONE is "emo." Her little rant against this word invalidated its meaning for me so well that I now think of its use as being silly, especially when used in the way you described it.

Melencholy, sadness, "the blues"...I once spoke to a psychiatrist about this. I declared that there is a difference between "having the blues" and "having depression." You get the blues from having a bad week, breaking up with a romantic interest, or seeing your favorite sports team collapse in the playoffs. Real depression requires professional aid, be it a therapist, medication, or both.

Before I go on, you will notice that I work hard to validate people's emotions, regardless if it's the blues or genuine mental illness. How many posts on this thread have started, "I know this is stupid because others have bigger problems here, but..."? And when I post a response, I'm quick to tell them that their feelings are important to them, and that trying to invalidate them is just silly.

Cheap pop-psychology, as you called it, has been around for ages. Once upon a time, when you felt depressed in any form, people would simply suggest you "go find a shrink," as though there was a psycho-analyst aisle in the market. And G-d forbid anyone outside your tight-knit group of friends or family knew, as said outsiders would then think you were pariah.

Along comes Prozac, the first "miracle pill" in terms of treating clinical depression, and pop-culture suddenly started suggesting that everyone shut up and go get their happy pills. It's rather astounding that people still think that you can take an antidepressant the way you might take an asprin, and everything will be all better. Those of us that have been educated through school, experience, and possibly both, know better than that.

The unfortunate result is that society has come to think that those of us with mental illness can simply "snap out of it." Go see a therapist, take a pill, go find a hobby...whatever it is, you can simply put an end to your melencholy with some kind of quick fix. And the guilt that gets piled on top of pop-thinking only complicates the sticky emotions. (Here's some irony: my father, also on antidepressants, wants me to "snap out of it." Go figure.)

This thread, the people I know, my own experiences...I try to take them and apply them to individual cases. I learned ages ago that a patient of one illness is not a duplicate of a patient with the same illness. There are parameters to treatment, but each individual is different.

I'm not a professional. I know this, and when Hippie corrects me, I recognize his authority on such matters. Instead, I take my own experience and try to apply it as I see how it fits to each person.

"Snap out of it." I hate that phrase. HATE, I tell you. But Sisqui is right when it comes to taking responsibility for one's illness. I will never say it's easy. Like working out physically to get in shape once you're already overweight, it takes patience and training. Nothing can happen until the person with those negative emotions takes that first step...and that step can be so hard!

I do my best to try and never dismiss anyone's problems. Whatever the case, the problems are real to that individual, and they deserve to be addressed.

Hence, this lengthy response to your post, ZRS. In a less-than-scientific way, I can take your "theory" and turn it into an "axiom." I confess I don't know the true origins of "emo," but its common usage, for me, was invalidated rather well by a teenager who almost died from the complications of acute myelogenous leukemia. There are times when one person CAN make a difference. People tell me I'm that one person for them. I tell others that they're the person who made a difference for me. Around and around we go. Welcome to the circle, my friend. Keep trying to make a difference. :smallsmile:

The worst is that my voice can't be heard over the net. I empathize with many people who come to this thread, and these words on the screen don't convey the emotion I feel WITH them. When I feel I can help, I do my best to lend words of comfort and dispense advice...

...but sometimes I wish I really could give a hug, because a hug can be theraputic, all on its own. :smallredface:

[zeratul]

Okay, I have a rant here and it isn't so much advice as a theory, really. I wanted to see what people who know more about this than me think.

I have a particular dislike of the word "emo." First, because people almost never understand what it means when they say it. They don't know anything about the subculture/genre of music that it relates to. Second, because I always see it being used as a pejorative when it shouldn't be. It's used to casually dismiss anything melancholy as just "emo."

I think one of the biggest problems with feeling sad is that there is often a sense of guilt attached to it. Not only do you feel sad, but you think that you shouldn't feel sad. That it's a bad thing to feel sad, and this just makes it worse, because you feel bad about feeling bad. This becomes a huge barrier to actually feeling better because the guilt doesn't allow you to actively work through what you're feeling.

This guilt, I'm relatively sure, comes from society. Cheap pop-psychology, opinions of others; they all treat melancholy as if it wasn't a valid emotion. Hence the word "emo" as a pejorative. Never mind if the person in question is actually part of the subculture or listens to the music. It's just stuck on to trivialize their emotions.

Also, more importantly and relevant to this thread, is the advice to simply "snap out of it." This doesn't work. All it does, I find, is make the person feel worse because it emphasizes how bad it is for them to feel sad. It also only encourages repression, which is just as bad with sadness as it is with anger. Really, this is probably the worst advice you can give to anyone feeling down. You probably think that it gives you some sort of "hard truth" veneer...no. Just, no. It just makes whoever you were "advising" feel worse. Plus, I'd say that you've only said it to make yourself feel superior. That's not advice; that's bullying.

Sadness is something I think you really have to experience. You have to work through it if you want to understand it. I mean, there's actual depression, which is dangerous, but I think there's something to be said for just letting yourself feel sad from time to time and trying to understand the emotion. I'm a big fan of using a creative outlet to work through this. It's always how I do it when I feel bad. Listen to depressing music or write poetry. This actually brings me back to "emo" and how people will look at some poetry and call it "emotry." Poetry written like this is awful, I know, but that's not the point. It's very useful to have a sort of dialogue with yourself in this way, to help you understand. Almost like giving yourself advice, and understanding is the first thing anyone advising needs.

Of course, that doesn't apply to clinical depression. But what I think guilt does there is even worse, because it trivializes it and keeps the person from seeking actual help, because they don't think the depression is real. I do lurk in this thread and the advice I see handed out for actual depression is "get professional help." This is very good advice, but it won't be followed by someone who thinks that depression isn't legitimate.

Okay...I'm done with this whole "make myself feel intelligent with an semi-educated rant" thing. My point is that I really think this thread is very useful simply because of it's nature. Reading through, I notice a few comments about how just the act of posting your troubles helps, which is kinda what I was talking about with letting yourself feel it and sort through it. Catharsis, really, is all I've been saying. But also that anyone who thinks that "snap out of it" is realistic, helpful, or appropriate advice, or that any "tough love" approach is at all proper, is simply wrong.

Like I said...this is more a theory than anything, so tell me what you think, please.

I agree completely. I think the use of the word "emo" to describe sad or melancholy people is also a testament to the ignorance of the vast majority of people to either melancholy people or to emo people.

[Vampiric]

I agree with all four posts above mine. :smallsmile:

However, ZRS, I would argue that the feeling of coming out of depression (I had a mild form when I broke up with my ex.) is 'snapping out of it'. Although telling someone to do it as though you expect them to do it at will, as though it's a lifestyle choice to be depressed, is definitely wrong.

I will add, though, that when I use the word emo, I tend to use it on people who are fashion sheep, rather than depressed people...

[Serpentine]

Meh. I, and so far as I can tell the people I associate with, use "emo" only for people who use "sad" as a fashion statement.

[Closet_Skeleton]

It's rather astounding that people still think that you can take an antidepressant the way you might take an asprin, and everything will be all better.

Treating Asprin the way it gets treated isn't a good idea either. Prozac just came into a pre-existing and fastly growing culture.

From my limited perspective I can blame it on a paradime shift from health care as a duty to it as just another market place. This may be getting too politcal and at least I can take off my rose tinted glasses and see that health care is better than it has been at any point in history.

It's probably due to the simple fact that spending money on things you don't properly understand is more attractive than giving up your life to nurse other people. Consumerism is just what naturally happened when the energy that used to be spent trying to stay alive had to find other ways to spend itself.

I'm just ranting for my own sake here of course.

[Hoggy]

Meh. I, and so far as I can tell the people I associate with, use "emo" only for people who use "sad" as a fashion statement.

Kuft.

I only tend to use emo as an insult.

To me:
Emo: People who use 'sad' as a fashion statement, are not actually sad.
Depressed: Someone who actually has issues.

Something like that.

[ZombieRockStar]

All I can say is that I really miss the multi-quote option here.

@Sisqui:

I think it depends on how you interpret the words "snap out of it". Some people say them in a derogatory way, really as if to say that the recipient of those words is nothing more than an annoyance to them. However, there is another way that those words can be meant. Now, I don't say "snap out of it" per se, because I've been through major clinical depression and I know that isn't what I wanted to hear at the time. But, not wanting to hear the truth doesn't make that truth any less of a reality. When someone says "snap out of it" in a beneficent way, what they mean is that you have to realize that your mental attitude is part of the problem. In fact, it is the problem. And sooner or later you have to realize that your attitudes and emotions are the part of you you have to confront to get better. You have to take the initiative, steel yourself for some very, very unpleasant introspection, and most of all- admit guilt. Yes, you have to analyze your behavior and determine where your own behavior and choices have led you to where you are now. Not for the sake of wallowing in it- just despairing and saying "Woe is me"- but for the purpose of weeding out all of the things that are not your fault, that you did not have control over. Those things have to be sucked up, quite frankly- you can't change what you can't control. But, for those things that you did and do have control over- you are the responsible party if they have messed up your life. And I'm not talking about drugs or promiscuity or anything like that (well, unless they apply) but mostly to those things depressives do that just reinforce their feelings of depression and isolation. Deliberately sitting at home, not calling friends, and crying all day IS PART OF THE PROBLEM not just a symptom! What I learned from my own experience is that the sadness will stay with you wherever you go. And, if all you do is isolate yourself, you will have no joy to dilute your sorrows. You will simply refine and purify your despair. And this is the part that meds cannot do for you. You can pop every pill in the pharmacy, but if YOU don't make the decision to go out and grab something good in life, it certainly isn't going to fall in your lap at home. This is the essence of "snap out of it" to me. Not in, "Just get over yourself, there's nothing really wrong with you". My understanding of those words is exactly that- understanding. Whatever other help you get, be it professional or pharmaceutical- YOU have to adjust your thinking for any of it to work. You have to adjust your behavior. There just is no other option. As I said, I don't use the phrase "snap out of it" but if I did, I'd mean it to say that you really do have a problem- now, having admitted that- what are you going to DO about it? Actions solve the problem, and the first- and believe me, the absolute hardest- thing you have to do, is to change your mindset from "There's nothing I can do" to "OK, what I'm doing right now isn't helping, so what else can I do?"

I get what you're saying. Telling someone to take responsibility for their own health is something different than telling them to "get over it."

But I would argue that most people already know that it's their responsibility. If they ask for advice, they likely already recognize that fact. I'd even say that a large part of depression is blaming yourself for many things.


So, if any part of this particular post was aimed at what I have been saying in this thread, rest assured that you have misinterpreted what I meant. I DO NOT think people have no problem. But I do think it is all too easy to misunderstand just what that problem is. Is your problem solely a chemical imbalance (which is pretty damn rare) or is there something you are doing that reinforces and strengthens the problem? Some people are chronically depressed and have no idea why. They do all the things I advocate but don't feel any better. Those people have a genuine need for antidepressants. Maybe they always will- I was told by several doctors that there was no other solution for me- that I would literally always be dependent on meds. Several years later, I damn well beg to differ.

I wasn't aiming at you. If I was ever aiming at anyone specific, they've probably said far more caustic things than "take responsibility." I don't actually read a whole lot of this thread...what I said comes more from personal interaction than anything.

I'm taking issue with the general perception that the only worthwhile person is a happy person, really. "Get over it" is a totally different way of talking about it than a much more gentle "take responsibility for how you feel." One implies that feeling sad is a waste of time, while the other doesn't.


And this is the problem I think a lot of people have. Most people do not have some chemical imbalance that prevents them from functioning normally- they have an attitude problem that prevents them from functioning normally. And their behavior does nothing but reinforce their learned helplessness. Now, believe me, that is a REAL problem. That sense of inertia can rob you of all semblance of a productive and happy life. There is nothing superficial about it. But the only way to correct it is to examine your life AND HOW YOU LIVE IT and make the changes necessary to pull yourself out of it. That may mean taking meds to help you get up and get going. But you have to go one step further in your thinking about the problem- get going to DO WHAT? The meds may be part of the process- BUT THEY ARE NOT ITS GOAL. Part of the "learned helplessness" that I think a lot of people have is the new acceptance of med dependency to combat depression. Doctors are essentially telling people that they can't do it themselves, that they are too weak to do so and therefore must take meds. I really hate that, because these doctors are subconsciously reinforcing the very helplessness they purport to help you get over. If you really want to get over the despair and the feelings of helplessness and hopelessness, you have to look inward to decide what you want in life and then look outward to see what you can DO to accomplish it.

I actually think you and I are saying the same thing here. When I talk about a perception that depression isn't legitimate, there's also that "learned helplessness" involved because I think you'd feel helpless if you can't just "snap out of it." Being told, forcefully (tone is so very important, even the phrase has that tinge of violence in it with "snap"), to get over it doesn't help. It makes you feel more helpless, doesn't it?

Finally, there's a huge, huge, HUGE difference between encouraging someone to take responsibility, or even to "get over it," and telling them. "Get over it" is not encouragement. It's authoritative and that always comes with an implication of superiority. Even if you're saying essentially the same thing, because I agree with you that taking responsibility is important, the actual command to is really counter-productive.


While examining sadness to find its source is a productive endeavor, it is also a dangerous thing to do. There is a good argument to be made that feelings like this broaden your range of life experience and therefore deepen your understanding of it and of the human condition. But there is a very fine line there that takes a lot of self control- to indulge in this kind of introspection without falling into the trap of wallowing in it.

I agree. But I would make a very big distinction between "reflecting" on a feeling and "wallowing" in it. One is active and the other is passive. So, if you're "reflecting" on feeling sad, I'd say that you are taking responsibility for your own emotions. What I'm talking about is serious introspection, not apathy.


This is why I think the word depression should be differentiated from the DIAGNOSIS depression. There is a vast difference between having a medical condition based on physiological aberration and in just feeling the bad emotions that come from a simply being human. And "guilt" might be the wrong word here. Fault might work better. If you refuse to develop viable coping skills in life, then yes, you ARE at fault for your depression. That may not be what you want to hear, but it sure as Hell is what you NEED to hear, because you can't correct a problem if you refuse to accept that it exists. And feeling depressed- for any reason- is legitimate. But if there are different causes for the depression, there need to be different solutions. If your depression is caused by being unable to deal with the problems in your life- that is NOT a medical condition and a medical solution will only enable you in your avoidance of responsibility.

Hopefully, you'll notice that I didn't actually use the word "depression" until talking about clinical depression.

There is a difference between knowing you're at fault for your depression and feeling guilty about it. Guilt is a barrier and is incapacitating. Overcoming the guilt and recognizing your responsibility is a necessary step, but one that I think is helped more by understanding and encouragement than a more forceful attitude.


Well, I don't consider my advice to be gospel, but I DO know that these are the answers that worked for me. WORKED- as in produced actual, measurable results.

Advice of any kind has to be tailored to the individual. I'm describing what it felt like for me, though I was never dangerously, suicide-considering depressed, so I'm sure there's more than a few important bits of knowledge I'm missing.


@Bor:

Heya, ZRS. Thanks for stopping in. Hippie has fresh coffee going in the lounge, and I think someone is baking cookies in the back. :smallsmile:

I'll start with an attack on this word, "emo." In fact, I'll attack it using a concept that was handed over to me by a 14-year-old. (That was her age at the time. She's 16 now.)

Some of you might remember my tale of Lizzy, how I met her when she was dying, and how she's alive and well, thanks to a bone marrow transplant. As with any teen proud of her MySpace page, she showed it to me. One of her blog entries went off on "emo" in a less than elloquent way...but the message was clear. "Emo" is short for emotional. If you are human, you have emotions. If you have emotions, you are emotional. Thus, EVEREYONE is "emo." Her little rant against this word invalidated its meaning for me so well that I now think of its use as being silly, especially when used in the way you described it.

Exactly my point. We all have moods for some reason or another, but sometimes we feel as if we're not allowed to be moody, because of all the associations we have with "emo" or "angst."


Melencholy, sadness, "the blues"...I once spoke to a psychiatrist about this. I declared that there is a difference between "having the blues" and "having depression." You get the blues from having a bad week, breaking up with a romantic interest, or seeing your favorite sports team collapse in the playoffs. Real depression requires professional aid, be it a therapist, medication, or both.

Before I go on, you will notice that I work hard to validate people's emotions, regardless if it's the blues or genuine mental illness. How many posts on this thread have started, "I know this is stupid because others have bigger problems here, but..."? And when I post a response, I'm quick to tell them that their feelings are important to them, and that trying to invalidate them is just silly.

Cheap pop-psychology, as you called it, has been around for ages. Once upon a time, when you felt depressed in any form, people would simply suggest you "go find a shrink," as though there was a psycho-analyst aisle in the market. And G-d forbid anyone outside your tight-knit group of friends or family knew, as said outsiders would then think you were pariah.

Knowing that feeling genuinely sad is valid is, I think, one of the most important steps in getting better.

Hmm...I guess all I'm arguing for is a more compassionate response, especially in tone, even if you're saying the same thing, because I think it's more conductive to be encouraging rather than berating


Hence, this lengthy response to your post, ZRS. In a less-than-scientific way, I can take your "theory" and turn it into an "axiom." I confess I don't know the true origins of "emo," but its common usage, for me, was invalidated rather well by a teenager who almost died from the complications of acute myelogenous leukemia. There are times when one person CAN make a difference. People tell me I'm that one person for them. I tell others that they're the person who made a difference for me. Around and around we go. Welcome to the circle, my friend. Keep trying to make a difference. :smallsmile:

Hmm...I kinda tend to avoid this thread because I prefer to be more personal with my advice. I occasionally lurk but just can't to seem to come up with anything to say if I don't really know the person. I have to say how envious I am of those of you who can and how much I respect that.


The worst is that my voice can't be heard over the net. I empathize with many people who come to this thread, and these words on the screen don't convey the emotion I feel WITH them. When I feel I can help, I do my best to lend words of comfort and dispense advice...

...but sometimes I wish I really could give a hug, because a hug can be theraputic, all on its own. :smallredface:

Sometimes one of the best things you can do is just try to give off an "it's okay, I'm here for you" vibe, which is so extraordinarily hard when all you have is words. Instead, if I try to say something like that, it seems cheap and a cop-out.

Of couse, I'm a writer. I depend on the ability of words to communicate emotion, so it's not that I think you can't communicate that feeling, but that it's much more difficult.


I will add, though, that when I use the word emo, I tend to use it on people who are fashion sheep, rather than depressed people...

Meh. I, and so far as I can tell the people I associate with, use "emo" only for people who use "sad" as a fashion statement.

Kuft.

I only tend to use emo as an insult.

To me:
Emo: People who use 'sad' as a fashion statement, are not actually sad.
Depressed: Someone who actually has issues.

Something like that.

I know what you guys mean when you say that, but I don't really think it changes the dismissive qualities when you call something "emo," whether it deserves to be called that or not. "Emo" has just become far too nebulous to really be any type of appropriate. It's just too easy to use. Especially since it's lost all the meaning of that blend of punk and goth that came out of the late 80s.

[averagejoe]

I feel perfectly depressed right now, and have barely stopped crying for several days... but... seeing people post about real problems here and such... I really can't bring myself to talk about my depression.

Obviously you too have "real problems." You've barely stopped crying for several days. That, I think, is a "real problem," even if the cause of it isn't (which I frankly doubt.) I'm not saying that you need to go and share your problems if you don't want to, but don't invalidate them to yourself just because someone else has it worse. Someone else always has it worse. It doesn't mean your own problems suddenly "don't count." Don't have time to get really into it right now (in fact, I'm probably already late :smallsigh: ) but that sort of attitude is one of the worst things you can do for yourself.

[eidreff]

Do not feel capable of a worthwhile contribution here right now. Lack of sleep, a mad week and work tomorrow all combine to limit my capacity for cogent thought. However massive slug hugs to all who feel that they may help. An expression of at least the attempt to understand even though I do not feel that I equal to the job of offering advice right now.

[phoenixineohp]

We had a really good public ad run once or twice that I thought was quite smart. It had a guy fall to the street, bleeding and such. Everyone ignored him. They walked over him and shouted things like 'You just don't want to go to work because you are lazy' and 'Suck it up'. It went to text saying something like this doesn't makes sense, and it still doesn't make sense as a reaction to mental illness. Just because you can't see blood or a physical injury does not mean it isn't there or there isn't a problem.

So I thought that one was rather good. :smallsmile:

Update: Got my full script of meds today. Feeling fine and normal, though still angry at myself. Just have to try again.

[ocato]

Mental Illness frightens me because I don't know if I have it or if I'm a hypochondriac. If you think you might have it, that means you don't, right? I distinctly remember that, I think from a Gary Paulson novel. "You're not really crazy if it occurs to you that you might be crazy" or something like that. Right? Right?

[averagejoe]

Mental Illness frightens me because I don't know if I have it or if I'm a hypochondriac. If you think you might have it, that means you don't, right? I distinctly remember that, I think from a Gary Paulson novel. "You're not really crazy if it occurs to you that you might be crazy" or something like that. Right? Right?

You're forgetting the more important question; if you think you're a hypochondriac, and you turn out not to be, does that make you a hypochondriac? :smallwink:

Sorry if that was one of those innapropriate joke thingies. I'll remove it if it was. Just know that I'm not taking the problem lightly; quite the contrary. It's just that I've had thoughts almost exactly along these lines, and the hypochondriac question was where it inevitably lead.

Honestly, I've come to the conclusion that we're all a bit mad, it's just a matter of degree. Or, to put it another way, I've read some autobiographies on people with mental illnesses, and the agreement seemed to be that being crazy was like being normal, except more so (in my own words). I doubt if there will ever be any firm line between madness and sanity, nor will there ever be any firm test to prove either. I am fairly sure, though, that it is, at the least, healthy to question your own sanity from time to time.

[ocato]

You're forgetting the more important question; if you think you're a hypochondriac, and you turn out not to be, does that make you a hypochondriac? :smallwink:

Hahaha, well played!

[phoenixineohp]

I object to the term madness and it being placed in opposition to sanity. However I do joke with my friends that everyone is a little crazy, it just depends on the manifestations.

If you have read the symptom lists for what you think you might have, and it seems to match up, I'd strongly suggest talking to a doctor about it.

[ocato]

If you have read the symptom lists for what you think you might have, and it seems to match up, I'd strongly suggest talking to a doctor about it.

My problem with this is that if you set me down with a list of symptoms I will end up with 5 diseases or more, depending on the kind of list.

[Serpentine]

We had a really good public ad run once or twice that I thought was quite smart. It had a guy fall to the street, bleeding and such. Everyone ignored him. They walked over him and shouted things like 'You just don't want to go to work because you are lazy' and 'Suck it up'. It went to text saying something like this doesn't makes sense, and it still doesn't make sense as a reaction to mental illness. Just because you can't see blood or a physical injury does not mean it isn't there or there isn't a problem.

So I thought that one was rather good. :smallsmile:
Hellavalot better than the ones we have here. They're all so... depressing :smallsigh:
Glad you're feeling better :smallsmile: Out of curiosity, were they just antidepressants? I didn't know they had those sorts of withdrawal symptoms, and so quickly... :smalleek:

You think madness is scary? You should see pure, unadulterated sanity! :eek:

Bor, I was lamenting the closure of mental institutions here, and a thought occured to me. You're struggling so much on your own, out of curiosity, would you institutionalise yourself if you had the chance (and a decent, well-run establishment, of course)?

Ocato, my mum told me that all medical students become hypochondriacs. They sit there looking through their books, going "I have that... and that... and that... and that... OH MY GOD I HAVE SYPHILLUS! :eek:"

[averagejoe]

I object to the term madness and it being placed in opposition to sanity. However I do joke with my friends that everyone is a little crazy, it just depends on the manifestations.

No joke about it; everyone IS a bit crazy. It's just a matter of degree. I mean this quite seriously.

[ocato]

Ocato, my mum told me that all medical students become hypochondriacs. They sit there looking through their books, going "I have that... and that... and that... and that... OH MY GOD I HAVE SYPHILLUS! :eek:"

I agree Serpentine, I am handsome and smart enough to be a doctor.

[phoenixineohp]

"An then I became insane, with horrible periods of sanity." - I believe its from Edgar Allen Poe.

Perhaps you should make a list of your symptoms and then see if it matches anything.

The joke in vet school is:
"Because of the diarrhea you had during the gastrointestinal class, and because of the PU/PD you experienced during renal, and also because of the nervous tic you developed during neurology, you decide to avoid the abnormal reproduction laboratory." :smallwink:

I went from my full dose of an SSRI to no dose of the SSRI for two days. They have really short half lives and produce symptoms similar to having a stroke with the flu and everything the SSRI was taking care of. But it increases in severity, so I started with a headache, then dizzyness, then I can't think straight, and my stomach starts to get affected, etc. Last time I called the health line to see what was happening and spent half the call convincing the nurse that I was not having a stroke. :smallsigh:

[Bor the Barbarian Monk]

Bor, I was lamenting the closure of mental institutions here, and a thought occured to me. You're struggling so much on your own, out of curiosity, would you institutionalise yourself if you had the chance (and a decent, well-run establishment, of course)?
You might say there is a magical female in my life that prevents me from rushing off to a hospital when I'm feeling my worst. Her name is Nike, and some of my favorite moments are when she comes to me at the computer, hops in my lap, and wags her little kitty tail as I pet her. :smallsmile: She's my "therapy pet," and she's saved my life quite often.

An institution would only take me in times of distress, not because I'm simply struggling. I would need to be a danger to myself and/or others.

As for you others, I have a funny story that doens't really involve mental illness, but falls under the "oh my G-d, I have that symptom!"

Many, many moons ago, living with my girlfriend, I awoke one night with pain in my stomach. I thought it was the heavy meal she'd made for dinner, so I took some over-the-counter stuff and went back to bed. By morning, however, I could not extend my right leg, and the pain was off the scale.

When we got to the emergency room, I was rushed into a room, where a doctor began asking after my symptoms. It pretty much went like this:

Doc: Are you running a fever?
Me: Not that I know of.
*nurse checks my temp, which was 101.5.
Doc: Any nausea?
Me: (suddenly feeling nauseous) Ummm...
Doc: Any vommitting?
*I tossed my cookies*
Doc: Any -
Me: Please stop listing symptoms. I'm getting them as you say them! :smalleek:

Imagine if she'd gotten to, "Any limbs falling off randomly? Any head asploding?" Not that those fit the symptoms of the appendicitis I had.

Oh...and as for everyone being a little "crazy," pay attention to someone who's just fallen in love. Their euphoria resembles lunacy a great deal. Why, when I was a teenager and I would fall for a girl, I would...I would...CLEAN MY ROOM! Madness, I tell you! MADNESS!!!

:smalltongue:

[smellie_hippie]

I should be less of a lurker here... you guys/gals are making leaps and bounds.

Bor: I hope you don't think that I jump your case with "correcting you".:smalleek: Your efforts here are worth much more than my once-every-three-page posts. My seven years of clinical experience as an outsider helping others work through their problems pale in comparison to those who have gone through the same feelings and situations.

ZRS: I mostly agree with your assessment on "emo". Again, as an outsider it just doesn't make any sense to me. However, if it has meaning and purpose for someone else, than who am I to take that away from them? I could say the same thing to people who acutally like Yanni.:smallamused:

For everyone else continuing to plod on though everyday seems heavier... keep coming here and sharing the load. Every little bit helps. It's kinda like moving your couch into an upstairs apartment... oh you could do it on your own, but even one extra set of hands makes the job that much easier. :smallsmile:

[Closet_Skeleton]

"An then I became insane, with horrible periods of sanity." - I believe its from Edgar Allen Poe.

Which I don't agree with. When I was a naive child I used to think insanity would be fun. After living with my grandmother and her alhzimers (not exactly the standard form of insanity but actually more common) I'd say that insanity is very, very terrorfying. Paranoia is a incredibly painful feeling, as is being unable to understand your circumstances.

[Bor the Barbarian Monk]

Bor: I hope you don't think that I jump your case with "correcting you".:smalleek: Your efforts here are worth much more than my once-every-three-page posts. My seven years of clinical experience as an outsider helping others work through their problems pale in comparison to those who have gone through the same feelings and situations.

Gotta love that first line. You'd think we were working in the same professional office, and that you're deferring to a senior staff member. *shakes cane at you* "Stay away from may cases, you...you...HIPPIE!" :smalltongue:

People seem to think I've become some kind of psychological superman, performing heroic acts by using powers beyond those of mortal men. I'm not. I'm actually one of the patients, fighting my own fight to get through my days. At best, I'm "peer support," and what I do here is as theraputic for me as it is for those looking for help.

Knowing these things, sometimes I sense that I don't know if I'm doing the right thing, and then you come along, SH, and add a few words to adjust what I've said. In a most literal sense, my friend, you have corrected me. There's nothing wrong with it.

Now go and do good deeds...or else! :smallbiggrin:

[ShinyBrowncoat]

Sorry I haven't had a chance to read through this whole thread yet, but in the interests of helping to de-stigmatize depression, let me "out" myself now:

34 years old
Treated for clinical depression for 4+ years ("moderate" depression according to the tests, although the impact on my work and life was far from moderate...)
Took me several months to admit to myself I had depression; within three weeks on Prozac, I was 90% back to normal.
Just chatted with an old work friend (high tech/software marketing), discovered that over half of the people in my group had been treated for depression, but no one talked about it.

Life is great now (just started a new job), but I'm definitely much more closely monitoring my own mental and emotional states for signs of excessive negativity. I'm not getting blindsided again! :cool:

[Fax Celestis]

Why is it, today of all days, I wake up in a bad mood and then things continue to blow seven kinds of goat for the rest of the day? It's ****ing 1230, and I already feel about as drained as when I'm usually at 1800.

I've got a seething, burning rage just behind my eyes, and it's that kind of fury that's really hard to not just let explode, and frankly I don't even know why. I want to throttle my coworkers for their ineptitude. I want to find the volume control knob of the universe and turn it down a few notches. I want to shut myself in a dark room with a computer and blow digital demons to bits.

I came in to work today and had to essentially shovel paperwork off my desk in order to find my keyboard. I don't appreciate that. I also don't appreciate someone ****ing with the metrics to the point where I had to spend the first hour and a half of my day fixing "Conditional Formatting" errors and figuring out why my Performance Coding sheet wasn't reading the rest of the workbook right (it was, but the decimals were in the wrong spot, so my IF statements were totally ****ed.)

I'm infuriated that my coworker insists that I fix her errors. Why can't she do it herself?

My fingers hurt because of how cold it is in here. The new MDO won't let us turn on the heater. Says it's a waste of money.

I forgot my lunch today, on top of it. Gonna have to see if I can find that ramen floating around my backseat somewhere, and pray that the sun hasn't baked the styrofoam into the food itself. Not that I'd be able to tell the difference with ramen.

I felt a little of this rage yesterday when I got in an argument with a friend of mine. I got inexplicably angry with little provocation. I hate it when I get like this. I get this jittery feeling in my chest, my jaw and temples hurt, my eyes squint, and everything and anything pisses me off. And I don't even know why I'm like this.

Long and short of it? I feel like I'm going to explode, and I don't know why.

[Bor the Barbarian Monk]

Why is it, today of all days, I wake up in a bad mood and then things continue to blow seven kinds of goat for the rest of the day? It's ****ing 1230, and I already feel about as drained as when I'm usually at 1800.

I've got a seething, burning rage just behind my eyes, and it's that kind of fury that's really hard to not just let explode, and frankly I don't even know why. I want to throttle my coworkers for their ineptitude. I want to find the volume control knob of the universe and turn it down a few notches. I want to shut myself in a dark room with a computer and blow digital demons to bits.

I came in to work today and had to essentially shovel paperwork off my desk in order to find my keyboard. I don't appreciate that. I also don't appreciate someone ****ing with the metrics to the point where I had to spend the first hour and a half of my day fixing "Conditional Formatting" errors and figuring out why my Performance Coding sheet wasn't reading the rest of the workbook right (it was, but the decimals were in the wrong spot, so my IF statements were totally ****ed.)

I'm infuriated that my coworker insists that I fix her errors. Why can't she do it herself?

My fingers hurt because of how cold it is in here. The new MDO won't let us turn on the heater. Says it's a waste of money.

I forgot my lunch today, on top of it. Gonna have to see if I can find that ramen floating around my backseat somewhere, and pray that the sun hasn't baked the styrofoam into the food itself. Not that I'd be able to tell the difference with ramen.

I felt a little of this rage yesterday when I got in an argument with a friend of mine. I got inexplicably angry with little provocation. I hate it when I get like this. I get this jittery feeling in my chest, my jaw and temples hurt, my eyes squint, and everything and anything pisses me off. And I don't even know why I'm like this.

Long and short of it? I feel like I'm going to explode, and I don't know why.
Fax...Once again, I will delve into my own experiences in the hope of finding an answer for you.

Before the official diagnosis of severe recurring depression, I would have what could best be called "irrrational thoughts." Driving down the street, I would have a sudden urge to cross the double-yellow line into oncoming traffic. I had a boss politely ask me to perform one of my regular duties, and my first thought was that I wanted to throttle her. This boss was also a close friend, so the reasoning behind my internal reaction was a complete mystery.

For me, medication became the answer. I'm not saying you should seek out some kind of happy pill, but investigating it or some kind of therapy might help.

In terms of meds, I know from experience that handling them incorrectly also brings about irrational thought. I tend to enter a bad cycle. I get my meds, slowly build to the level they're supposed to be at, my memory starts becoming a bit hazy, I start forgetting my meds, and then I have to start the process all over again. If I rush the process to get my meds at their proper level, something screwy happens in my head, and I start getting angry at things I shouldn't...like my cat meowing that she's hungry. It's a task and a half to keep my anger reigned in.

The fastest, most immediate answer is the old "10 deep breaths" method. Before the anger causes you to explode, pause and make an attempt to clear your mind of whatever is bothering you. Then take 10 deep breaths, concentrating on nothing but the breathing. This quick little excercise may not resolve the issues that are bothering you, but might help to calm you down.

Now, I need to do a little ranting, and I ask forgiveness in advance if I bruise anyone's feelings.

Of late, I have received several PMs about relationship issues. "My friends are abusive/manipulative/stupid/breaking my heart." I do my best to help these people, and yet every time I respond, I ask, "Am I really the guy they think can help?" I feel like a moron when I try to help, and here's why:

I have two friends in the "real" world, and one rarely makes an effort to call me back, despite my numerous messages left on his home and cell phone. After that, all of my other friends are right here. I'd sooner trust a Playgrounder to watch my cat if I needed hospitalization than any of the neighbors I know.

I'm single, and have no kids...that I know of. My heart has been shattered numerous times, and I feel some of the pieces are still missing. I've had three - count them: THREE - failed engagements. The first cheated on me, the second hopped out of my life on her one leg when I started becoming disabled, and the third was an internet drama would take too long to explain. (Let's just say she wasn't what she claimed to be.) :smalleek:

Between my PTSD, depression, and romantic history, I'm more afraid of attaching my heart to anyone than anything else.

Now I want people to understand that I want to help. I really do. But my relationships with friends, family, and lovers make me exceptionally unqualified. You're still welcome to send such PMs to me...just understand that this is an area where my emotional IQ drops to single-digits, and my responses may well reflect that. :smallfrown:

[Fax Celestis]

Fax...Once again, I will delve into my own experiences in the hope of finding an answer for you.

Before the official diagnosis of severe recurring depression, I would have what could best be called "irrrational thoughts." Driving down the street, I would have a sudden urge to cross the double-yellow line into oncoming traffic. I had a boss politely ask me to perform one of my regular duties, and my first thought was that I wanted to throttle her. This boss was also a close friend, so the reasoning behind my internal reaction was a complete mystery.

For me, medication became the answer. I'm not saying you should seek out some kind of happy pill, but investigating it or some kind of therapy might help.

In terms of meds, I know from experience that handling them incorrectly also brings about irrational thought. I tend to enter a bad cycle. I get my meds, slowly build to the level they're supposed to be at, my memory starts becoming a bit hazy, I start forgetting my meds, and then I have to start the process all over again. If I rush the process to get my meds at their proper level, something screwy happens in my head, and I start getting angry at things I shouldn't...like my cat meowing that she's hungry. It's a task and a half to keep my anger reigned in.

The fastest, most immediate answer is the old "10 deep breaths" method. Before the anger causes you to explode, pause and make an attempt to clear your mind of whatever is bothering you. Then take 10 deep breaths, concentrating on nothing but the breathing. This quick little excercise may not resolve the issues that are bothering you, but might help to calm you down.

I don't normally get like this, which is why I'm so confused. My wife calls me the "one of infinite patience" (among other things), and I'm largely known to let things roll off of me like water off a duck's back.

It's just every once in a while that I get like this, and I wonder if it's sort of an overflow from my limitless patience.


Now, I need to do a little ranting, and I ask forgiveness in advance if I bruise anyone's feelings.

Of late, I have received several PMs about relationship issues. "My friends are abusive/manipulative/stupid/breaking my heart." I do my best to help these people, and yet every time I respond, I ask, "Am I really the guy they think can help?" I feel like a moron when I try to help, and here's why:

I have two friends in the "real" world, and one rarely makes an effort to call me back, despite my numerous messages left on his home and cell phone. After that, all of my other friends are right here. I'd sooner trust a Playgrounder to watch my cat if I needed hospitalization than any of the neighbors I know.

I'm single, and have no kids...that I know of. My heart has been shattered numerous times, and I feel some of the pieces are still missing. I've had three - count them: THREE - failed engagements. The first cheated on me, the second hopped out of my life on her one leg when I started becoming disabled, and the third was an internet drama would take too long to explain. (Let's just say she wasn't what she claimed to be.) :smalleek:

Between my PTSD, depression, and romantic history, I'm more afraid of attaching my heart to anyone than anything else.

Now I want people to understand that I want to help. I really do. But my relationships with friends, family, and lovers make me exceptionally unqualified. You're still welcome to send such PMs to me...just understand that this is an area where my emotional IQ drops to single-digits, and my responses may well reflect that. :smallfrown:

Send them to me instead. I've been on every side of a relationship you can imagine. I need fingers, toes, someone else's fingers, and one of their feet to count how many significant significant others I've had. But please, my inbox currently resides at 95%. Try my email ([email protected]), or try me on AIM (FaxCelestis), MSN ([email protected]), YIM (TriusAlucanther), Googletalk ([email protected]), or Jabber ([email protected]).

[Bor the Barbarian Monk]

I don't normally get like this, which is why I'm so confused. My wife calls me the "one of infinite patience" (among other things), and I'm largely known to let things roll off of me like water off a duck's back.

It's just every once in a while that I get like this, and I wonder if it's sort of an overflow from my limitless patience.

Hmmm...Yeah, I think you just need to learn a few relaxation techniques to get you through the rougher times. If you can't find some good suggestions on the net, consult a doctor. Releasing anger in the heat of the moment can have bad results, so I recommend looking into it rapidly if it continues over the next few days.

[ocato]

Why is it, today of all days, I wake up in a bad mood and then things continue to blow seven kinds of goat for the rest of the day? It's ****ing 1230, and I already feel about as drained as when I'm usually at 1800.

I've got a seething, burning rage just behind my eyes, and it's that kind of fury that's really hard to not just let explode, and frankly I don't even know why. I want to throttle my coworkers for their ineptitude. I want to find the volume control knob of the universe and turn it down a few notches. I want to shut myself in a dark room with a computer and blow digital demons to bits.

I came in to work today and had to essentially shovel paperwork off my desk in order to find my keyboard. I don't appreciate that. I also don't appreciate someone ****ing with the metrics to the point where I had to spend the first hour and a half of my day fixing "Conditional Formatting" errors and figuring out why my Performance Coding sheet wasn't reading the rest of the workbook right (it was, but the decimals were in the wrong spot, so my IF statements were totally ****ed.)

I'm infuriated that my coworker insists that I fix her errors. Why can't she do it herself?

My fingers hurt because of how cold it is in here. The new MDO won't let us turn on the heater. Says it's a waste of money.

I forgot my lunch today, on top of it. Gonna have to see if I can find that ramen floating around my backseat somewhere, and pray that the sun hasn't baked the styrofoam into the food itself. Not that I'd be able to tell the difference with ramen.

I felt a little of this rage yesterday when I got in an argument with a friend of mine. I got inexplicably angry with little provocation. I hate it when I get like this. I get this jittery feeling in my chest, my jaw and temples hurt, my eyes squint, and everything and anything pisses me off. And I don't even know why I'm like this.

Long and short of it? I feel like I'm going to explode, and I don't know why.


Fax, not to make light of your situation, but I imagine you getting really angry, starting to turn green and hulk out, and then turning into me. I mean, I have these kinds of problems all the time*. (*see previous posts, including "I swear to god, I will murder everyone who was ever born and probably a hefty number of those who are still waiting to be.") I wish I had a solution for you, but I'm afraid not. I don't suppose knowing I'm in the same boat helps, but hey! You get infinite patience moments! That's a plus. I only get those with girls I like. :smallconfused: Guess I'm a doormat. Anyway, remember the song. Murder is bad, murder is bad, people who murder other people don't get to use the internet or cuddle with their loved one or eat at Burger King.

[Fax Celestis]

Fax, not to make light of your situation, but I imagine you getting really angry, starting to turn green and hulk out, and then turning into me. I mean, I have these kinds of problems all the time*. (*see previous posts, including "I swear to god, I will murder everyone who was ever born and probably a hefty number of those who are still waiting to be.") I wish I had a solution for you, but I'm afraid not. I don't suppose knowing I'm in the same boat helps, but hey! You get infinite patience moments! That's a plus. I only get those with girls I like. :smallconfused: Guess I'm a doormat. Anyway, remember the song. Murder is bad, murder is bad, people who murder other people don't get to use the internet or cuddle with their loved one or eat at Burger King.

Funny. You seem like such an easygoing guy on the fora.

[ocato]

I make an effort to appear unflappable. I've found that if you seem easy to jilt, people will jilt you, sometimes for the sheer comedy of watching you try to fight the urge to slay them. I get pretty mad, even here, but I never post 90% of the things I type. In fact, fun story this is, I once applied to a pbp game where someone pretty much tried to copy-steal my character concept. I was mildly peeved, but then they had the audacity to exclaim their intention to "one up" me by expanding the idea in a way I lacked the books to have imagined, and pretty much edge me out of the game by out-making my own character. I was, needless to say, on the verge of taking a human life. I try, especially around here, to speak specifically and avoid broad statements that will merit the inevitable whiner "Don't include me in your stupid statements" or somesuch. But I do slip up.

[averagejoe]

As a half-reply to Fax and a half-aside, I've actually found humor to be very important in dealing with my own depression/anger. It simultaneously gives me something to besides get angry/upset and relieves pressure. (Of course, it does give a lot of people the impression that I'm laughing at them, but I usually just tell them that I have a wierd sense of humor.) Fax, and the rest of you, I would encourage you to laugh more, even at yourself in grim situations. Especially at yourself in grim situations. It turns something dire and world-shattering into something conquerable. Take it from me; the more you laugh, the more of a habit it becomes, and the harder it is to stay in frumpy moods. It isn't an insta-cure; it took me years to develop laughter into enough of a habit for it to be useful. It also doesn't mean you can never get angry, cry, etc. In fact, a good cry once in awhile is healthy, I imagine. Lord knows I could use one sometimes. However, I could easily say that developing the habit of laughter is the best thing I ever did for myself.

[Bor the Barbarian Monk]

Young Wadledo has been sending me PMs, attempting to help me get The Suicide Note published. I don't have the money to get it copyrighted, edited grammatically, edited medically, or market it. I often lack the motivation to even try.

During our communication, the idea struck me to perhaps apply for a grant. Using my weak Google Fu, I realized that grants are...ummm...granted...via a proposal. Well, I know how to write such a proposal the same way I know how to engage in neurosurgery. That is, not at all.

So what should I do? Where can I go for help? I've thought of writing to Rich Burlew, but I think he probably gets enough garbage e-mails, and one asking for help publishing a non-fiction piece...? :smallconfused: No, I need someone with the resources and power to make things happen. But who?

The answer: OPRAH! Just prior to this post, I sent the following message to her:


I need help from the "Queen of All Media." I am an insulin-dependent diabetic who has written a short, but perhaps powerful book on growing up with diabetes. Being disabled, I lack the funds to get it copyrighted, have its content edited by a medical professional, and market it to agents or publishers. While a sack of money would be nice, I am asking for help of ANY kind in seeing this project to fruition.

This space it limited, but my writing takes diabetes education to a level not often presented. All too often, diabetics are warned of the consequences of not caring for themselves, but few books speak of the fear and pain involved. I do.

I am pleading for aid. Please tell me if you can help.

+Rob
Will she help? Won't she help? Find out next time on, "As the Bor Turns!" :smallwink:

For those wondering why I posted this on the DT, it's because this is where my pet project involving this book has been mentioned most. And let's face it...it's good to show when someone with severe depression finds the motivation to do something like this. Heck, by writing to Oprah for help, I've basically dragged out the big guns.*

*Whether you are a fan of hers or not, she is a powerful media figure. If I can get this book published, and it saves ONE diabetic from that which is my current life, then it's all worth it.

[Serpentine]

But... Oprah is creepy :smalleek: Like a pug-dog:smalleek: That doctor guy I saw on the show once is okay, but her... :smallyuk:
On the other hand, she has money. Milk it, Bor-man :smallwink:

[ocato]

I hope you do not mean "doctor" phil.

[Serpentine]

Dr Phil's on Oprah?:smallconfused: Oh yeah. No, not him. The other one, with the nose.

[QueenOfMemnoch]

So, I've got this bottle of OTC pills that claim to be "Natural Support for Emotional Well-Being" in my hands. In other words, Over the counter happy pills.
The past week or so has been emotional hell for me, and there's no particular reason for it to be so. I've broken down into tears at the most inopportune times , but I shrugged it off untill yesterday.
It got so much worse yesterday. I didn't want to see or speak with anyone, not even my boyfriend. I slept for most of the day and didn't pay attention in class when I wasn't able to sleep. Eventually, I couldn't sleep anymore and I sat infront of my laptop, crying to cheesey break-up songs from the eighties and nineties.
My boyfriend, the ever-caring and "completely natural" man he is, picked up these pills from the "Natural" market closeby. Apparently, they've got crazy herbs in the pills that'll make me feel better.
But I'm not sure I want an artificial happiness.

This was meant more or less for me to just type out my meaningless melancholy. If you have advice regarding the medications, that would be welcome, but I don't expect much help otherwise- since there doesn't seem to be anything wrong besides my being upset for no reason.

[Bor the Barbarian Monk]

So, I've got this bottle of OTC pills that claim to be "Natural Support for Emotional Well-Being" in my hands. In other words, Over the counter happy pills.
The past week or so has been emotional hell for me, and there's no particular reason for it to be so. I've broken down into tears at the most inopportune times , but I shrugged it off untill yesterday.
It got so much worse yesterday. I didn't want to see or speak with anyone, not even my boyfriend. I slept for most of the day and didn't pay attention in class when I wasn't able to sleep. Eventually, I couldn't sleep anymore and I sat infront of my laptop, crying to cheesey break-up songs from the eighties and nineties.
My boyfriend, the ever-caring and "completely natural" man he is, picked up these pills from the "Natural" market closeby. Apparently, they've got crazy herbs in the pills that'll make me feel better.
But I'm not sure I want an artificial happiness.

This was meant more or less for me to just type out my meaningless melancholy. If you have advice regarding the medications, that would be welcome, but I don't expect much help otherwise- since there doesn't seem to be anything wrong besides my being upset for no reason.
Oh, look! We're back on topic! :smallwink:

Queen, in one small phrase, here is my reaction to OTC antidepressants: "VOODOO AND MYSTICISM!" As far as I know, medical studies show them as little more than a placebo that makes you think you're better. Hey, if that works for ya, great! Whatever creams your Twinkie.

Whatever the pill it is that you pop to undo the depression, the happiness is not "artificial." The reality is that "happy pills" don't actually make you happy. Their job is to suppress the sadness. After that, it's up to you create the happiness.

Let's put this in a different, more physical way. Let's say you've broken your leg, and badly at that. The doctor sets the bone, puts a cast on you, hands you painkillers, and gives you instructions on how to improve your healing. The doctor has done all he can. Now it's up to you. If you don't take the painkillers when you hurt, you will suffer the through the pain without aid. If you don't rest your leg, your healing may go slowly, or the bone may heal wrong. If you don't use the crutches properly during the healing process, you can damage nerves and circulation in your arms, as well as end up walking with a severe limp.

Medications are only a tool to help get through an illness - ANY illness. They are not a cure. Even antibiotics only HELP the body fight an infection; the pills alone aren't the cure.

My recommendation is that if the OTC pills don't help, and your symptoms persist, consult a professional...or us. We may not be professionals, but we sure do pretend real good. :smalltongue:

[Terumitsu]

Well now.. As I am mostly not luking about today and just blotting things out with my crutch of choice as per usual (RP is good for that.), I might as well say what is on my mind. I find that I mostly run on three things here:

"Pleasing others is what brings joy"
"Others come first, be it words or problems or what not"
"Poison, though painful to extract is better out of the body than in"

Now as is my usual thing to do with others first:

Queen, I am sorry to hear that. You can speak to me whenever it strikes your fancy but I will restate my idea of how I veiw medications for issues.. and drugs in general. Bor said it mostly but I just feel that I need to do it anyway and say that taking something to cover another thing is just making the problem worse. I just hope that you get this out of your system.. and please don't do anything stupid.

But now for the main event and I reference to those three little bits up there... So far... the first two have recently ****ed me over. Within the past few months there have been quite a few changes to my personal lifestyle. One being that stereotypical "Oh, I'm so depressed because I just broke up with my bf/gf." Now, that is just one albetros about my neck but I shall get to those in time. I have found that once I find I love someone, I cannot bring myself to hate them. And this is not just a thing with someone I was intimate with, It is everyone that I find worthy of attention. I have a sort of affection to those people and even if I don't actualy say the words 'I love so-and-so' There is still the implications that I do hold them dear to me. But to be short and back on topic, I took it rather hard. I am glad that they have now found another that pleases them but even months later I still wake up worrying about them and going to bed praying for their well being. It is the same with everyone also. I worry about them and when I hear they are in a bind, I do whatever I can to help... Right now I am helping a friend's family with part of my paycheck as he is having to work two jobs as his father was laied off and his mother is recovering from back surgery. Now, to make a point here, I am running a full 40 hour work week and full time student. As an effect, my sleep schedual is shot to the bowels of the abyss and naps have lost what they once suplemented. I just wake with a weary feeling and have given up on them all together. Now, I think that is two things there. Another is this: As I have stated, I worry about those I care for and no less than ten are currently having issues with either identity, or just stress from there current situation, or seriously commiting suicide or any number of things. I try my best to be a sort of comfort but as things have gone on, I think what I do is just more hurtful than anything. I am the sort of person that sees the greatest pleasue as the joys of pleasing another. I do what I can to make people smile or laugh or comforted and it may be why I am so jocular at times but even that is getting in the way. Also, I have said that I do care about them and I call them friends but I actualy have little feeling of any connection to anyone. I feel anxiety when I notice them or see them and I both joy over and dread talking to them. I just try to surpress it but it just rears it's face later when they are gone. Lately, I have had a bit of trouble eating or keeping food down, twice having to make a mad dash to the restroom to avoid splattering a clasmate with an indilute acidic spray. And then there are the accomanying cramps with it. Think a snake living in your small intestine and eating it with fangs the size of your hand. Now make that go on for hours at a time for days on end. But symptoms aside, I need to get back from my tangent. Recently, two of the ones I care about have quite betrayed me.. I do not want to be very specific as I still feel it is more of a private matter but I will say one was due to the breaking of a rather large promise and the other is something of the same. The latter one... I can be a little more free with. I will say that I will never be able to talk to them again but not to any argument. They did something they promised me he would not do and now I am with one less friend. Now I am having trouble finding reasons to talk to any of them.. I am very much bound in time and I have little I can do for any ill that comes upon them. I stress over them when they are having a hard time and I think I am just hurting when I try to help. And I stress over that too. I just need a way to let it out some. And so I am venting to just a random crowd but I atleast feel better now that I am possibly being heard. And I feel rather hipocritcal for some reason now also.

[Rex Idiotarum]

*Sigh* I have a cold rage that hurts the people I love. You know how in debates and fights one can argue logically or one can argue emotionally. When I argue, my conception of emotions becomes void. I think with absolute logic, with little regards on how my words will be received. I figure if I can interpret things like this, why can't other people?

I made an ass out of myself, and hurt someone I care about.

Queen, I can only say that Drugs won't help you, inner reflection is your best bet. I'd tell you what is wrong, but you won't listen to me. Fine, when you unbare your should upon a therapist, and they repeat back to you what I had, that maybe your choice in life isn't what makes you happy, then I hope you can think back at me and forgive me.

Anyways, I'm ready to say "@#$% it all." And disappear from this world as myself. I hate everything, and have nothing that tethers me to my home but a bed and food. As soon as I get the money or means, I'm outta here.

[QueenOfMemnoch]

Bor: Thanks..I might as well try the pills, though, since he went out of his way to buy them for me. And they can't do any harm..or, atleast, the bottle doesn't have side-effects listed :smalleek:
Terumitsu: We'll be close FOREVAAR, so you know you can talk to me if you need to. And I'm sorry I caused so much stress... ::huggles::

[Sisqui]

Bor: Thanks..I might as well try the pills, though, since he went out of his way to buy them for me. And they can't do any harm..or, atleast, the bottle doesn't have side-effects listed :smalleek:
Terumitsu: We'll be close FOREVAAR, so you know you can talk to me if you need to. And I'm sorry I caused so much stress... ::huggles::

Your doctor's office is only a phone call away. Failing that, use your google-fu before taking those pills. Especially if you are taking anything else, OTC or not. OTC doesn't mean it can't kill you, it just means it is generally less likely to than something for which you need a prescription.

And I would try other methods instead of going straight to pharmaceutical help. Talking to a close friend or (and it pains me to say it) a therapist might be a safer route.

But, in any case, good luck to you :smallsmile:


Rex: Several of your posts make me think what you really want in life is a partner who can provide you with the thrill of being an intellectual equal- someone not only with the strength of will to stand up to you but also with the strength of mind to be able to do so intelligently. Quite frankly- you seem to be bored. Almost despairingly so- because people really pose no challenge to you. Like trying to take a bite out of something you can't even sink your teeth into. I hope you find someone with a forceful enough personality to make you happy. Not everyone in life is a pushover- keep pushing and sooner or later someone will push back hard enough to get your attention. :smallbiggrin:

[Rex Idiotarum]

Wow... Sisqui, that was just what I needed.

[Sisqui]

Wow... Sisqui, that was just what I needed.

Um, sorry Rex, but I have no idea if you were being serious or caustic.....:smallconfused:

[Rex Idiotarum]

I'm serious. I was feeling crappy today up until I read that. Gave me a huge ego boost and got me thinking.

[Sisqui]

I'm serious. I was feeling crappy today up until I read that. Gave me a huge ego boost and got me thinking.

Ok. Well, then, to borrow a phrase:

"Wild speculation- is there any problem it can't solve?" :smallbiggrin:

But honestly, Rex, I think a lot of the sexual tension and frustration you seem to have (again, this is only my impression from some of the posts in the thread, I could absolutely be mistaken) is that you need - you NEED- a forceful personality in a mate. You just seem to me to be the kind of person for whom almost everyone else is almost ephemeral- a whisper, a pastel, faded intangible other. They just have no substance to you because you do not experience life through your physical senses as much as you do your mental ones. Reaching out and touching someone to you doesn't make them.......real? Only when you slam into the "solid" reality of their personality do they really take on a sense of "being" to you. As if this weren't bad enough, that person must also possess intelligence equal to their force of will. This being the case, in the absence of mental connection- of the sense of challenge given, accepted and returned- you simply cannot be aroused. Sorry if I am off base, but it really seems that without mental stimulation you seem to devolve into a messy stew of boredom, frustration and contempt.

[Bor the Barbarian Monk]

I'm serious. I was feeling crappy today up until I read that. Gave me a huge ego boost and got me thinking.

Uh oh! Rex is thinking. Someone is DOOMED! :smallbiggrin:

In all seriousness, Rex, there are times when I try to help you, or WANT to try to help you, and I don't think I do or can. Sisqui hit a rather interesting nail on the head. Your emotions, more than anyone I know, are tied strongly to your intellect. If something doesn't engage that brilliant mind of yours, it's dismissed...and having to dismiss it is disappointing to you.

I've been hospitalized plenty in my life, and I can tell you that lengthy stays can be boring beyond compare. In an effort to get my brain going, I asked around if any other patients played Chess. I found a guy who claimed he'd played quite a bit. Being the wiseguy that I can be, I used the Fool's Mate on our first game...and our second...and third...and fourth...and this guy wasn't catching it AT ALL! I think we played for all of 15 minutes. I checkmated him six times, all with the same moves.

At one time, I signed up for an online penpal thing. Found a few people who were interesting, but only one that I stayed in touch with for some time. The most disappointing e-mail I received was from a woman claiming to be working on her Masters degree in English. Her letter had no paragraphs, no punctuation, and no capitalization.

These are the examples from my life that make me think of you...looking for something/someone that doesn't prove to be moronic. Unfortunately, that's all you seem to find.

Not sure where I'm going with this, anymore. My foot HURTS! I guess the message is: you're not alone; I wish I could help. Whatever you do, don't "dumb it down." I'd be sorely disappointed, and I know how much my approval means to you. :smallwink:

[Rex Idiotarum]

And that is why I'm a masochist...

You are absolutely right, I have only found a few with that force of personality and intellectual challenge. Only one person comes to mind from real life, but I don't think he, being a straight male, would be the best choice. I still treasure the blinks that hours become while talking to him when I can catch him at his work.

Still, in an intellectual, I look for an open mind, with are often the ones way, way out of the ordinary.

Even outside of looking for a partner, my life often lacks that challenge. My biggest challenge to date is the fact that my computer has Vista. ((Do not get Vista if you already suffer from depression, anger, or anxiety, cause it will just make you want to curl into a ball and never come out.))

I'm bored of waiting around. I need to become a Technomad or something. Or get to a Dorm college far away from this god forsaken place.

[Sisqui]

At one time, I signed up for an online penpal thing. Found a few people who were interesting, but only one that I stayed in touch with for some time. The most disappointing e-mail I received was from a woman claiming to be working on her Masters degree in English. Her letter had no paragraphs, no punctuation, and no capitalization.


Actually, I'd say that was proof. Ever hear of Ezra Pound? :smalleek: :smalleek: :smalleek:

:smallbiggrin:

EDIT:

And that is why I'm a masochist....

Actually, Rex, I don't know if you are a masochist so much as you are an elitist- and there is nothing wrong with demanding only the finest in a mate, with certain caveats: 1)you will have difficulty finding them and 2)they will demand that YOU deserve THEIR interest when you do. Voluntary submission to a person who isn't capable of taking the dominant role on their own isn't going to do much for you, I'm afraid. You'd be stuck with something you'd know was only an illusion and I doubt you'd get much satisfaction from that. After all, does a person who is only interested in those of lesser intellect/will really interest you? And if so, what does that say about you?

[Rex Idiotarum]

So, my dream mate is someone I could argue with for hours on end without taking anything personally, but also not backing down, and using logic to counter my points.

I can see taking out the trash devolving into a Solipsist argument...

[Korias]

Gah... Today just made me realize how LITTLE self confidence I have. I screwed up an oral presentation infront of the class that I was prepared for, having memorized the lines for 2 solid weeks now. I was asked by a girl if I could do that preformance in her class, and probably wrecked her feelings because I didnt do it. Then, I atempted to console myself by getting a group project done and when my group asked me what was wrong, I couldn't tell them. I blew off my friends because I screwed up our last filming session (Were filming a live-action version of SNES StarTropics), because I didnt want to face them and screw up again. The girl I asked out blew me off, saying I was "Not her type", and then I passed by and heard her talking about what a "Jerk" I am. I had a test later, and probably did horrible because I couldnt concentrate on the material, instead trying to make sense of why I couldnt do it.

And thats all at school.

I come home: Dog, as usual, greets me. Go upstairs: While my computer was De-fraging, the coolant shorted and melted something important, and now my room smells of burnt toast.

My PS2 decided to corrupt my memorycards, destroying my progress in over 30 games, most of which had 40+Hours into each one (RE4, Ratchet and Clank, MGS3, Xenosaga, Soul Calibur, FFT, FF9, Crash Bandicoot 1, Battle Hunter, and many others). Also, something on the spinner broke, and scratched my teachers FF9 disk. Now, I have to replace it before I return it.

Yeah. Horrible day. Now its off my chest though, and I dont have to go back to school tomorrow. More time to hunt for a FF9 Disk 1.

Still doesnt make it better. This sucks...

[Sisqui]

So, my dream mate is someone I could argue with for hours on end without taking anything personally, but also not backing down, and using logic to counter my points.

I can see taking out the trash devolving into a Solipsist argument...

Rex, who are you fooling? You live for arguments :smallbiggrin:

But what I really mean is that your sense of self respect comes from your appreciation of your mental faculties. In the superiority of your mind and will. If someone treated you as a subby, don't you think that would eventually grate on your nerves? I think that what you need is someone who lives up to your high standards- not so they can satisfy you (or at least not just that)- but so that the esteem of an equal can validate your opinions of yourself. You need the respect and desire of a person whose standards for those things make it a compliment to you to be singled out.

But, really, that is only a vague impression I get from the posts here. There is a lot of nuance that doesn't translate well on the internet and even more that occurs IRL. I am just giving you my opinion. Don't take it as gospel as I'm sure there are many others here and IRL who know you better than I do.

EDIT: the bolded text is called foreplay, Rex. You should probably remember that :smallwink:

[Rex Idiotarum]

O! I'm a lot worse in real life, but I'm better with my words. ((I'm telling you, hearing the tone and pitch of words helps so much when it come to me.)) As for people in my life... really, no one lives up to even the lesser people here.

I wasn't being sarcastic. I could see it now:

"Honey, could you take out the trash?"
"What trash? I don't see any trash."
"This trash." Points to trash.
"That doesn't exist, nothing does, you're all parts of my imagination."
"Really? Well, if I don't exist, then you don't need me to..."
"Meh, I'm a solipsist. I could do that myself."
*Stares at each other for a couple seconds, and then starts making out.*

[Sisqui]

I wasn't being sarcastic. I could see it now:

"Honey, could you take out the trash?"
"What trash? I don't see any trash."
"This trash." Points to trash.
"That doesn't exist, nothing does, you're all parts of my imagination."
"Really? Well, if I don't exist, then you don't need me to..."
"Meh, I'm a solipsist. I could do that myself."
*Stares at each other for a couple seconds, and then starts making out.*

That's pretty much how I see it being for you :smallbiggrin:

Just get used to the potential.......sensuality, I guess.......of your own mind. IT is your most erogenous zone. It actually is for a lot of people in general but I think it is especially so for you in particular.

[Rex Idiotarum]

So, I'm going to start looking for people I have nothing in common with. Well, no, different views of similar interests.

[Sisqui]

So, I'm going to start looking for people I have nothing in common with. Well, no, different views of similar interests.

You need to find someone for whom the definition of foreplay includes the phrase "devil's advocate". :smallamused:

[Arakune]

I lived in a depression...

It was a nice city. :smallbiggrin:

[Sisqui]

Yeah. Horrible day. Now its off my chest though, and I dont have to go back to school tomorrow. More time to hunt for a FF9 Disk 1.

Still doesnt make it better. This sucks...

Sorry to hear you had a bad day. Sometimes you just need to vent. That's OK, in this thread everyone is entitled to gratuitous use of the :smallfurious: smiley :smallbiggrin:

BTW, I love your avvie!

[Bor the Barbarian Monk]

"Honey, could you take out the trash?"
"What trash? I don't see any trash."
"This trash." Points to trash.
"That doesn't exist, nothing does, you're all parts of my imagination."

This is why I can't help Rex. He'd get all Cartesean about the trash, while I would then, at length, explain the trash, my previous experience with trash, and why trash needs to be taken out.

*sigh*

I really am boring as hell. :smallconfused:

[Catch]

Do you ever feel like your life is a dance?

I do. Not so much in the lyric sense, but that I feel I'm taking the same steps over and over, always in sequence, the last always leading to the first. I get the feeling that I'm waltzing my life away, stuck in the same comfortable rhythm that always leads me back to the same place. I suppose if I wanted to get metaphorical about it--well, more so, at least--I could say that I've walked, driven and danced a series of paths for myself, deep ruts laid down over time. Day to day, my thoughts follow the same circuits, I drive the same roads, do the same things and overall, I don't feel like I'm changing or growing as a person. It's the same clicks, the same words and the same steps, all one right after another.

Hell, even cathartic expositions like this one are just part of an overall pattern for me. Were I so inclined, I wager I could draw up a flowchart for my life and I doubt I'd take up more than a handful of lines. Maybe I'm just human, inclined to draw comfort in the familiar, yet I'm discontented. I feel frustrated and trapped following the same roads around and over, yet I'm positively terrified of taking a turn that I can't analyze or predict completely. I suppose I'm not as much of a change-fearing shut-in as I paint myself to be, yet I can't shake the feeling that I could be living in a different way--a happier one.

Until then, I'm waltzing without a partner. Sometimes I wonder who's taken the lead.