What do Demons/Devils want?

[Jallorn]

When you DM, and Demons or Devils offer to deal with mortals, giving them power or treasures or minions, what are they getting in exchange? If it's just a soul, what value is it? Is dealing with mortals just a game? A "see what crazy stuff happens if I give this guy what he thinks he wants," game that also leaves the Infernal creature with a keepsake soul to remember the good times with?

Personally, I've found the most engaging to me being that they don't really care about the mortal's soul, but know, or gamble, that by giving this pawn some power, it will push their grander plan to escape their prison/become a god/achieve vengeance or ultimate power closer to success. Thus, dealing with a Demon isn't actually selling your soul, but because they will only deal with those who may be in a position to help them, making a deal means accepting that you are probably a pawn of dark forces and helping their grand schemes to reach success.

[Eldan]

It's a bit different for demons and devils, I'd say. There's a few things they have in common: they can barely act on the material plane, for one. Fiends are limited to their home plane and a few neighboring planes, to get to the Prime, they have to be called or summoned. Or they need pawns. That's what they will want in payment. Pawns, or contracts to be called and let free. Souls, well, more souls means more fiends. Depending on the fiend, they may or may not like that.

For Demons, a lot of the time, I'm running this as "for ****s and giggles". Corrupting and betraying mortals might just be a fun passtime.

Devils, well, devils are running a fascist on a wartime economy, and most of them do feel some level of sense of duty, especially the mid-ranks. Every soul is another potential soldier. And, more importantly, if they manage to set up lawful evil social hierarchies, they can potentially funnel hundreds or thousands of souls to Hell. After all, in the end, they are out to save the multiverse from destructive chaos.

[ThinkMinty]

Personally, I think it'd be funny if, in something, they were after something that was valuable to them, but less significant to us. It's not the price that's the problem, it's the Monkey-Paw consequences of accepting the deal.

Like, they might be after panties or bananas instead of souls. It's not the price that makes you pay, it's the consequences of your dreams coming true.

[Raimun]

They want evil for evil's sake. That's pretty much the definition of a demon or a devil. Also, at least in D&D, souls do have actual value because they're kind of like building blocks for the planes that souls of dead people end up... even if that isn't an exact analogy.

[Ravian]

In one of my favorite interpretations of demons- oWoD Demon: The Fallen, demons don't actually have the power to take souls, only faith (which they use for their powers)

What they can do is lie about taking your soul. They have very little idea what happens to souls afterwards, but the belief that the soul is sold and the demon has power over it offers a substitute for it.

It also helps cover up a significant secret. Namely that most pacts can be ended by the mortal at any time if they choose to. The flow of faith can be broken as soon as the mortal is willing to give up what they gained from the pact. But if they're told that they sold their soul in the deal, they're less inclined to end the pact since they don't know if they can get their soul back.

Big bonus is that it often makes thralls more willing to act as a demon's servant. Similar to what the Order of the Stick fiends said, a human who thinks they sold their soul are a lot more willing to do bad things regardless of whether or not they have one.

[FocusWolf413]

I've seen a lot of good contributions, but I know who can help more:
Red Fel
Red Fel
Red Fel

I'm surprised nobody did this sooner.

[Seto]

Souls are worth a lot. Not only does it further the grander agenda of Evil as it's a net gain of power for the relevant Plane, you can also use them in black magics and as currency. Among Devils particularly, the two biggest currencies are favors and souls, and your influence is directly tied to the number of souls at your disposal.
Plus, in the case of mid-rank Devils, making good deals (securing souls and services for Hell) increases their street cred. If they get a lot of mortals' souls, they're gifted and able Devils, their superiors also benefit from that, and it might actually be the safest way to power and promotion. (Since instead of betraying and pissing off powerful devils, you're useful to them, even though they don't trust you)

[Anonymouswizard]

To devils it depends on if they are Primes or Planars. Primes are worth the most when the deal makes them a) slip into evil and b) die quickly. There's a bit of a contest among devils to see who can make their summoning rituals the most enticing while also making the summoners evil by the time they complete them. Primes occasionally have more to offer while alive, especially if they are really devious, but if you can think of it one of the legions of Baator probably has as well.

Planars are worth much more for one reason: they can already directly influence the great wheel. Not only do you ideally get them into Baator once they die, you can use them immediately. Give them a weapon and send them against your superior, with the weapons/magic/information being payment for their services. Get them to destroy a portal to Celestia, or do recon work in the Abyss. A Planar is worth more to you alive where he can still wield great power.

Once both are dead they can ideally serve as footsoldiers/bricks, with the best becoming low-ranking devils themselves.

Demons mainly deal with mortals because this entire 'trapped in a circle' thing is boring, but hey, you can still have some fun. See how many burning orphanages you can trade for last night's fortune cookie.

[Mastikator]

Demons want instant gratification through torturing people. Devils want instant gratification through subjugating people.

[Tvtyrant]

The same thing everyone else wants, they are just better at getting it.

[Vitruviansquid]

As humans, good is seemly and attractive to us. We like to see people do good, it warms our hearts, and it makes us feel good, even if the particular good deed has nothing to do with us.

Devils and demons are the opposite. Evil is seemly and attractive to them. They aren't tempting people and teaching people to do evil because they want something, they are only doing it because it makes them feel good to see evil and corruption, malice and hypocrisy, and all that bad stuff.

[Milo v3]

Devil's want souls to increase the optimization of reality in the way that benefits them most, while demons might just simply want your soul and wanting is all their needs to be.

[veti]

As I see it, the issue is that - yes, while "souls" are like hard currency on the outer planes, the amount that demons/devils will often trade in exchange for just one soul seems - disproportionate to any plausible market value for one soul.

To square that circle, I assume the devil is looking for a "multiplier" effect on any deal. It wants to be sure that it won't get just just the one soul it's "bargaining" with, but several dozen/hundred/thousand more by way of collateral damage. So when I DM, any deal a devil offers has a primary goal to "maximise collateral damage".

That's why, when the diabolic pact calls for someone to die, the death is made as gruesome, painful and public as possible. It's an advertisement for the dark power, encourages others to think either "that's hideous, I don't want to be in the firing line for that, I'll just keep my head down" - or alternatively "that's hideous, that's ultimately evil, if I can catch the person responsible for that I am going to go absolutely medieval on their soul" - either of these thoughts is a win from the devil's point of view.

Worst case, it may turn out that the devil has misjudged their chance of scoring collateral damage, and the mortal gets a bargain. In that case the devil will make the most of it as an advertising opportunity - "see what this lucky mortal got!" - to try to salvage some value from the deal.

[Traab]

Think of it this way. Power is transient, souls are eternal. Say I am a devil and I grant you some amazing amount of power and rule over the nation. Thats great and all, it took a lot of magic to pull off, but once you die, your soul is mine forever. Its a long term benefit. Obviously you want to make the largest profit for the smallest cost but in the long run its still worth it.

[Michael7123]

As I see it, the issue is that - yes, while "souls" are like hard currency on the outer planes, the amount that demons/devils will often trade in exchange for just one soul seems - disproportionate to any plausible market value for one soul.

To square that circle, I assume the devil is looking for a "multiplier" effect on any deal. It wants to be sure that it won't get just just the one soul it's "bargaining" with, but several dozen/hundred/thousand more by way of collateral damage. So when I DM, any deal a devil offers has a primary goal to "maximise collateral damage".

That's why, when the diabolic pact calls for someone to die, the death is made as gruesome, painful and public as possible. It's an advertisement for the dark power, encourages others to think either "that's hideous, I don't want to be in the firing line for that, I'll just keep my head down" - or alternatively "that's hideous, that's ultimately evil, if I can catch the person responsible for that I am going to go absolutely medieval on their soul" - either of these thoughts is a win from the devil's point of view.

Worst case, it may turn out that the devil has misjudged their chance of scoring collateral damage, and the mortal gets a bargain. In that case the devil will make the most of it as an advertising opportunity - "see what this lucky mortal got!" - to try to salvage some value from the deal.

On that topic, I imagine Devils would be looking for ways they can "chain" soul deals together. For example:

King Olaf the Old has four sons eager to acquire the throne. Eric the eager (the eldest) wants his father to die so he can become king. Richard the Ruthless (second eldest) is already Lawful evil, so no pact is necessary, but he plays a role in all this. Gregory the good (third youngest) would be fine serving the eldest brother, but loathes Richard for being evil. Marcus the Malleable is the youngest son of all, and is easily suggestible.

A devil appears to Eric and is offered a fairly standard pact: the devils will kill his father, he'll become king, in exchange for his soul. He accepts, and his coordinated.

Richard is actively looking for a way to kill his brother and become king himself, and is already damned to the nine hells to boot. The devils don't make a pact with him: they just give him the information he wants without his knowledge that devils are even involved. Eric is assassinated successfully (possibly even damning an assassins soul).

Gregory is horrified that his Lawful evil brother is on the throne running a tyranny. This is when a devil, disguised as one of his closest friends (who the devils will have killed, and preferably damned in the process), butters him up to the idea of killing his brother and other LE advisers, preferably in a legal manor through some legal loophole. After all, how could he call himself good if he just lets a tyrant rule over his country without stopping him. Of course, kin slaying might not be the best solution to the problem, but the devil will convince him assassination is the only way. No pact is offered: Gregory would immediately recoil from that. Getting Gregory to damn himself is a far more efficient solution.

After Gregory kills his brother, damns his own soul, and takes the throne, the devils will kill him. The nice, manipulable youngest brother will be on the throne, and will be surrounded by advisers who will steer him to law and evil.

[ondonaflash]

In my game I cling a bit to the idea that Devils, at least the serious players, are in fact Angels fallen from Grace due to a loathing of Mortal Races. Their long term goals are nothing more or less than the eradication of intelligent life and free reign over the now-mortal-less paradise. Everything they do is intended to further that goal, long term. The corruption and seizing of human souls is less of a necessity and more of a matter of reaffirming to themselves the fundamental unworthiness of Mortality. Generally they only offer bargains to those who would not already be consigned to the Hells, including Good and Neutral, but also the Lawful Evil worshippers of Evil Gods. Additionally they typically to not resort to Pacts Certain first thing, instead bargaining for favors and offering rewards that will elegantly guide the mortal along the path to damnation.

Demons, on the other hand, are far more straightforward. What they want is fire, death, chaos, and blood. Madness and destruction on a grand scale. They cut deals with mortals because it lets them act on the mortal plane and gives them opportunities to circumvent their instructions in order to create more carnage. They literally grow more powerful with each act of violence or terror they commit.

[Anonymouswizard]

Demons, on the other hand, are far more straightforward. What they want is fire, death, chaos, and blood. Madness and destruction on a grand scale. They cut deals with mortals because it lets them act on the mortal plane and gives them opportunities to circumvent their instructions in order to create more carnage. They literally grow more powerful with each act of violence or terror they commit.

Sir, those aren't demons. You just described Adventurers perfectly.

[Raimun]

Sir, those aren't demons. You just described Adventurers perfectly.

Good sir, I resent that statement on one count. Unlike demons (or devils), we have no need to cut deals with mortals because we are also mortals and as a result, can act freely on mortal plane in order to create more carnage.

Adventurers do not make deals.

[SimonMoon6]

They often just want to make sure their bosses aren't going to punish them. So they do what their bosses tell them to do.

The bosses of course, don't really care what the minions do. They just give them orders to make sure that they are capable of obeying orders.

[Red Fel]

I've seen a lot of good contributions, but I know who can help more:
Red Fel
Red Fel
Red Fel

I'm surprised nobody did this sooner.

I take a few days off, I come back to find this. Honestly, I don't get paid enough.

There are three things that Demons and Devils want, mostly irrespective of game system or setting. "Souls" don't even make the list. They're incidental.

1. Influence. Trading in "souls" isn't about the soul itself. It's about having power over a person. It's about trading favors. When you're an eternal embodiment of cosmic Evil, the concept of currency is mostly pointless. The concept of favors, however, is not. When you count among your peers and enemies beings who, like you, do not fear death and do not know end, beings who equal you in power, it's not about the souls, it's about the mortals they're attached to. It's about steering the balance in your direction, by maneuvering the pieces as you see fit. And favors are a form of currency as well. Say a mortal king sells his soul to Demon A. Demon A doesn't generally have use for kings - he specializes in soldiers - but he knows a guy. So he trades a the soul to Demon B in exchange for a favor. Demon A is now owed a favor by Demon B, and Demon B is now entitled to compensation from the mortal king. Point is, it's not about the soul itself; it's about the influence it earns you, either by controlling the mortal or trading that control for other favors.

2. Corruption. Cosmic Evil, broadly speaking, has an interest in tipping the scales in favor of Evil. Doing so generally requires creating more Evil than Good in the world. Sometimes, the trade is less about what you take from a mortal (i.e. a soul), and more about what you give them (i.e. exactly what they wanted). This tends to lead to one of two outcomes. One, a mortal, having acquired precisely what he wanted, abuses it and indulges in sin and vice. Score one for Team Evil. Two, a mortal, having acquired what he wanted once, becomes greedy and makes more requests - only now, they have price tags attached. Kill this person. Desecrate this holy site. And so forth. In either case, the goal is the same - those who benefit from pacts with cosmic Evil should become corrupted by those pacts. It's not about punishing them now, it's about giving them the means to earn those punishments. Demons and Devils are, by and large, sadistic creatures, and there are few sadistic tendencies more gratifying than giving your victim enough rope to hang himself.

3. Reputation. Cosmic Evil benefits from people being willing to deal with cosmic Evil. If everybody knew that nothing would ever work out, people would stop doing it. So Evil ensures that some people see some benefit from these deals. And by doing so, Evil's reputation spreads. This feeds back into #2, in that people are more inclined to deal with Demons and Devils, and therefore more susceptible to corruption. Rather uniquely, though, Evil also benefits if its bad reputation spreads. If everyone is a winner, people start scrutinizing the bargains for downsides. Nobody trusts a free lunch. But if most people lose and every now and then somebody wins, every person begins to think that he could be that lucky sod. It's like walking into a casino - the games are stacked against you, and odds are you'll lose your shirt, but lots of people there are convinced that I'll be the one who walks away with the big check. And that's precisely what Evil wants.

An alternative view is that of C.S. Lewis' The Screwtape Letters. The view of demons in this novel is basically Bizarro World - Demons are convinced that they are doing "good" by their "patients" by introducing them to corruption and vice, and are incapable of comprehending compassion and other virtues. It's a fun concept, but gets a bit old, frankly.

[Raine_Sage]

An alternative view is that of C.S. Lewis' The Screwtape Letters. The view of demons in this novel is basically Bizarro World - Demons are convinced that they are doing "good" by their "patients" by introducing them to corruption and vice, and are incapable of comprehending compassion and other virtues. It's a fun concept, but gets a bit old, frankly.

I feel you've missed some of the nuance in screwtape. Demons think they're doing right by their patients because to them humans are horrific abominations who can really only aspire to be cattle and nothing else. Screwtape essentially acts like God is Dr. Frankenstein and Satan is the affronted townsperson who rightfully recoiled from him when the mad scientist gleefully declared that he loved his misshapen horror unconditionally. They can't figure out why god loves humans because to them humans are absolutely inferior to pure spirits in just about every way. They're blind to the spiritual world, limited by the needs of their body, and often incredibly dimwitted. To a screwtape-esque demon a human's one redeeming quality is that souls are delicious and they're even better when they've been encouraged to "ripen" properly so to speak.

So removing real world religious implications to port it into a fantasy setting isn't terribly difficult. Human are delicious, and they're even better when they've been encouraged into wickedness. In this case a demon would grant power in the hopes that a human would use that power to do absolutely terrible things, thereby guaranteeing the tempter a delicious feast down the road. It's a little boring compared to some of the more intricate reasons but it works if you're not looking to weave the politics of hell into your campaign.

[kieza]

They want to exercise their free will.

In my setting, demons (there are no devils) are what happens when you take an angel and install free will but no conscience or empathy. Someone--an outcast god, or a disillusioned divine servant, or something, nobody knows for sure--gave an archangel free will eons ago. And, it went about as badly as it could: they wound up creating the Prince of Hell, who promptly made the same alterations to all the angels in his Host.

The end result was the creation of the Pit: a fiery abyss in the substance of the Heavenly Realms, out of which comes an endless stream of demons, met by an equally endless stream of angels.

Demons of all varieties are continually spawned at the bottom of the Pit, and gradually move up toward the top, where they are thrust into the meatgrinder of combat with their angelic counterparts. Most don't survive their first battle; the incredibly lucky or talented ones that do, get promoted and sent back in. There are only two ways to escape the fighting: there's an infinitesimal chance of surviving long enough to be noticed and given a less dangerous position...

Or they can get summoned to the Material Plane before they reach the front lines.

Once a demon is summoned, it really, really doesn't want to be sent back. That's its first concern. Ideally, it would persuade the summoner to release it in exchange for a service. Since most summoners are smarter than that, demons usually have to settle for something less: being allowed to indulge themselves once in a while, or an agreement to keep them out of serious danger that might get them banished. Others will look for a loophole that lets them get their summoner killed, which then makes them free.

If a demon gets free rein on the Material Plane, then it turns its mind towards building its power base--and that usually means more demons: demons who will be very grateful to whoever pulls them out of the line of fire. The problem is, summoning demons is power-intensive: it takes a fair amount of knowledge and power (read: mid to high level), and a lengthy ritual with the expenditure of reagents. Demons could do it this way...but, it's simpler to use a soul to power it. This doesn't destroy the soul--but, souls are naturally drawn to the Underworld, and there's a release of transition energy when they cross over, which can be harnessed and put to work. There are a couple of ways to harness this energy: the brute-force way is to strap someone down in a sacrificial circle, and then sacrifice them. But that tends to attract paladins if you do it too much. So, while your near-mindless demon grunts might try that, the more cunning types will go for willing victims: they'll offer a deal, and when their victim accepts, the demon plants a little bit of magic on them to "seal the contract." Then, years later when the victim dies of natural causes, the energy released by their soul entering the underworld is used to summon a fresh new demon. Depending on how nasty the demon making the contract is, this may involve a demon bursting from the victim's corpse in a shower of gore.

And then, once a demon is running free, and has its power base...well, the next step depends on the demon in charge. Some go on a rampage. Others engage in debauched depravity. The most craven of their kind hide somewhere out of the way, and enjoy not being sent into battle...And the most dedicated try to open up a new front in the war on heaven. Summon demonic generals, form cults, tear down temples...

[Milo v3]

In my current setting, Demons are immensely varied since they are simply souls that no realm had claim to. Though devils are a branch of souls that a realm has claim over, but to punish rather than to reward, and by bringing other souls closer in line with the desires of their realms masters they are allowed to be free from their punishment and become rewarded souls. So devils only want mortal souls to appease their deity bosses.