Good Spells to forestall via Spellblade at medium-high levels

[Jowgen]

The Spellblade WSA from PgtF costs 6000 gp and the main part of its effect is the following:


wielder of a spellblade weapon is immune to a single spell chosen at the time the weapon is created. The selected spell must be one that is targeted against the wielder, not one that affects an area or creates an effect. When the wielder is next subjected to the chosen spell, the weapon absorbs it. On his next turn, he can opt to either let the spell drain harmlessly away or direct it at a new target as a free action.

So yeah, I'm just interested in what particular spells people consider a good investment for this.

I for one like the idea of keying it to Wish. It target a creature with it for certain uses (e.g. the teleport function), so it should qualify. Obviously, it's not all that likely that someone will specifically try to wish you dead somehow, but if it does happen, having a Wish spell stored to the re-direct on the next go is bound to lead to hilarity. Like a near-dead Balor throwing his 1/year wish at you as a last ditch effort, only for you to redirect it to yourself with a different effect (obviously DM territory there).

Regardless, what do you think are some good ones?

[Rubik]

So yeah, I'm just interested in what particular spells people consider a good investment for this.

I for one like the idea of keying it to Wish. It target a creature with it for certain uses (e.g. the teleport function), so it should qualify. Obviously, it's not all that likely that someone will specifically try to wish you dead somehow, but if it does happen, having a Wish spell stored to the re-direct on the next go is bound to lead to hilarity. Like a near-dead Balor throwing his 1/year wish at you as a last ditch effort, only for you to redirect it to yourself with a different effect (obviously DM territory there).

Regardless, what do you think are some good ones?I agree with your choice. Keying Wish (and Miracle, and Limited Wish) to a spellblade means that any effect that Wish could potentially have that is targeted on you auto-fails, whether that effect is hitting you with an emulated Missile Storm or teleporting you across the planes with no way to stop it. There's a variety of effects that it nullifies just with that one choice.

Also, targeted (Greater) Dispel Magic is a good one, as that's a lot nastier than an area Dispel. Mind Rape is yet another.

It's too bad Love's Pain and Ice Assassin aren't targeted on the person they're designed to destroy...

[Cruiser1]

Like a near-dead Balor throwing his 1/year wish at you as a last ditch effort, only for you to redirect it to yourself with a different effect (obviously DM territory there).
Indeed, the Spellblade says you can change the target of a given spell that targets you. It does not say that you can change any other decisions about that spell. If a Balor tries to Wish-teleport you into the center of the Sun, and your Spellblade absorbs the spell, then you can change the target to the Balor's trusted lieutenant to teleport them into the Sun, but you can't change the Wish to say give yourself +1 to a stat instead.

[Douglas]

Indeed, the Spellblade says you can change the target of a given spell that targets you. It does not say that you can change any other decisions about that spell. If a Balor tries to Wish-teleport you into the center of the Sun, and your Spellblade absorbs the spell, then you can change the target to the Balor's trusted lieutenant to teleport them into the Sun, but you can't change the Wish to say give yourself +1 to a stat instead.
Too bad, really, because that would be hilarious.

Balor: Nothing else is working, time for my last ditch effort! WISH!
PC with Spellblade: Ooo, more loot!:smallbiggrin:
Balor: :smallconfused: ... :smalleek::smallmad::smallsigh:

[Rubik]

(Greater) Bestow Curse, Charm Person/Monster, Dominate Person/Monster, Suggestion, Tasha's Hideous Daughter Laughter, and Lesser Geas. Don't bother with Geas/Quest, because the effects are far inferior to Lesser Geas.

Look for the serious targeted save/lose, save/die, and no-save-just-suck/lose/die effects. Otto's Irresistible Dance, anyone?

[Jowgen]

Loving the suggestions so far. :smallbiggrin:

Bestow Curse does seem like a good option. It's pretty debilitating, and from the top of my head, I can't think of anything (other than a massive will-save) that protects against it. It's Necromancy, but seeing how it doesn't affect undead in any particular way, classing it as negative energy seems to be out.

Charm, Dominate, Geas, Laughter and Dance (sounds like my kind of kinky anime evening :smalltongue: ) I think are better countered with mind-affecting immunity, or even a lowly protection from alignment spell/item.

Dispel does seem like a very solid choice, although I think it's only really worth it on a character who relies on on buffing spells. But on one that does, it seems almost dumb to not have a spellblade for this.


As for Wish... hmmm. The rules on spells do state the following:


You make all pertinent decisions about a spell (range, target, area, effect, version, and so forth) when the spell comes into effect. Once you know which targets are affected, and whether those targets have made successful saving throws, if any were allowed, apply whatever results a spell entails.

I could see an argument that a spell that's been absorbed by a spell-blade has not yet come into effect. The original caster has made his pertinent decision when casting it at you; but rather than coming into effect it is absorbed. The Spell-blade wielder then gets to "direct" it, which at the very least includes the target-variable decision. It would be strange if you got to over-ride that part when directing, but none of the others. The spell absorbed isn't "wish target teleported into the sun", but simply wish, which you get to "direct".

Or alternatively one could argue based on how all other spell-storing type items allow the item-wielder to make the pertinent decisions when using the stored spell. Why should a Spellblade work differently? How is the spell-blade absorbing a specific spell different than a spell-storing weapon having a spell cast into it? And, most importantly, isn't it the basic rule that in case of ambiguous rules/effects, the first solution step is to base it on a similar rule/effect?

I'm not saying it's air-tight, but the idea of getting to choose the version of wish does seem to have some good argument points to it.

[Rubik]

Anything that deals negative levels, such as Enervation and Energy Drain. Antimagic Ray. Reaving Dispel. Disintegrate. Telekinesis. Harm.

[Jack_Simth]

Anything that deals negative levels, such as Enervation and Energy Drain. Antimagic Ray. Reaving Dispel. Disintegrate. Telekinesis. Harm.

Problem: Some of those are Effect spells (the rays, most notably), which are specifically not permitted for the spell blade.

[Cruiser1]

As for Wish... hmmm. Or alternatively one could argue based on how all other spell-storing type items allow the item-wielder to make the pertinent decisions when using the stored spell.
A Spellblade doesn't recast the spell. It deflects an already cast spell to a new target. In other words, it's not like a Ring of Spell Storing that a spell gets cast into, which you can then recast yourself (making all the decisions about the spell). Rather a Spellblade is like a casting of Spell Turning (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/spellTurning.htm), except it allows you to choose a new target yourself (instead of making the new target always be the original caster).

[Rubik]

Make yourself immune to whatever self-only spells you want to redirect to a new target. Divine Power on the party's war hulk, maybe?

Tenser's Transformation on enemy mages?

[Heliomance]

Make yourself immune to whatever self-only spells you want to redirect to a new target. Divine Power on the party's war hulk, maybe?

Tenser's Transformation on enemy mages?

...damn that is a nice abuse. Never thought of that.

I tend to pick up a Spellblade of Greater Dispel Magic any time I make a character that relies on buffs. Just too useful.

[Andezzar]

Can you cast the spells the spellblade deflects on yourself or would you need another caster to pull the aforementioned trick off?

[Darrin]

Make yourself immune to whatever self-only spells you want to redirect to a new target. Divine Power on the party's war hulk, maybe?


Sounds like a job for transcend mortality.

[Andezzar]

How do you get around disintegrating at the end of the duration?

[Rubik]

How do you get around disintegrating at the end of the duration?Redirect that along with the rest of the spell?

[Andezzar]

I thought the idea was to redirect the transcend mortality spell to a party member. Redirecting it on an enemy of course is a tricky way to kill them.

[Rubik]

I thought the idea was to redirect the transcend mortality spell to a party member. Redirecting it on an enemy of course is a tricky way to kill them.Well, if you want to use it as a buff, you'd have to find some way to cast it that doesn't involve casting it yourself, such as using a mirror of opposition, Dominating your clone, and forcing it to redirect T.M. onto a party member without the disintegration effect.

[Cruiser1]

Can you cast the spells the spellblade deflects on yourself or would you need another caster to pull the aforementioned trick off?
A Spellblade works whenever you are targetted. If you cast a spell with "Target: You" or otherwise choose to target yourself, the Spellblade works the same and allows you to redirect it next round as a free action. This can be used to give yourself extra actions: The round before the Fighter kicks down the BBEG's door, cast Disintegrate on yourself so your Spellblade absorbs it. Next round, after the door has been kicked open and combat starts, cast your standard action spell, a quickened spell, and also an extra Disintegrate as a free action from the Spellblade. :smallbiggrin:


How do you get around disintegrating at the end of the duration?
The disintegration that affects the target when the Transcend Mortality spell ends is an effect from the spell like any other. To avoid dying when using it on yourself or an ally, just cast Antimagic Field or step into one right before the spell ends, to suppress all effects of the spell. Transcend Mortality actually makes a very powerful buff when Persisted, as long as you're smart enough to avoid the negative disintegration effect at the end. :smallcool:

[Bakkan]

There was a thread discussing something similar a few years ago: Blowing up the Action Economy with Spellblade Tennis (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?151109-D-amp-D-3-5-Blowing-up-the-Action-Economy-with-Spellblade-Tennis). The idea is you take a spell that can target more than one creature (e.g., magic missle), key a couple of spellblades to that, and give them to two creatures. Cast the spell once at the two creatures, who redirect it on their next turn to both themselves and their partner (so that they each have two copies of the spell stored in their spellblades), and continue. Each round, the number of spells stored doubles. At any point, the characters can decide to direct some or all of their stored spells at an enemy. The good news is that since everything involved is a free action, this "spellblade tennis" doesn't interfere with normal adventuring.

As far as the numbers go, since the number of spells doubles each round, and in round 0 we have 1 spell, after 1 minute we have 1024 spells. Redirecting these to an enemy (assuming we are using magic missle at caster level 3) gives us up to 2048d4+2048 damage.

Other decent options for spellblade tennis would be frostbiteFrost95, Electric LoopSC78, mass cure <something> wounds, mass frostburnFrost95[/i], painful echoes[sup]CMa112, mass dessicateSand114[/i], mass flesh to salt[sup]Sand116[/i], pox[sup]FC1, and force missleSC98.

Adding the Twin or Repeat metamagic to any spell that can target you allows you to perform this trick solo. For instance, doing this trick with a repeat (greater) dispel magic would allow you to, whenever you start a fight, hit an enemy with so many targeted dispel magics that you are essentially guaranteed to dispel anything you could with a roll of 20.

would be Twinned (Greater) Dispel Magic,