PDA

View Full Version : Very Large Arrows (Optimization)



Indon
2007-05-22, 07:21 PM
Just what the title said. I was speaking about boosting a monk's size to increase his damage a little while ago, and I got to thinking if perhaps, say, a ranger or scout could utilize a similar mechanic to fire ginormous, super-powered arrows.

So the challenge? Get a medium or large (at most, preferably medium) character to deal immense ranged damage through sheer arrow size. Strength bonus to damage isn't bad, either, of course.

More specific requirements:

-Pre-epic character
-The damage has to be viable at over 30 feet back; so no precision damage. Precision damage doesn't scale with size anyway.
-No kind of character that would be clearly better off not firing a bow in the first place (that means no wizards). You could be buffed by such a character, though (say through a permanent Enlarge Person).


I'll start things off energetically by suggesting Monkey Grip! I'm bound to get people posting on the thread now, heheheh...

Arbitrarity
2007-05-22, 07:56 PM
So so to do, anyways.

Goliath Psywar fighter using augmented expansion, Greatbow: 4d8 (meh).

Sheer arrow size for bows doesn't work that well. Damage is less than monk, and without, say...

Goliath/half-giant UMD'ing a scroll of high level giant size (using custom UMD booster items), Greatbow: 8d8.

You can't do very much, even then. Comparatively, I can get 24d8 with monk fists.

PinkysBrain
2007-05-22, 08:06 PM
With blood wind from the SC a monk can make ranged attacks with his fists though.

ClericofPhwarrr
2007-05-22, 08:10 PM
With blood wind from the SC a monk can make ranged attacks with his fists though.

Alternatively, he can go Kensai and give his fists the Throwing and Returning enchantments.

Then give them the Flaming enchantment for rocket fists.

kemmotar
2007-05-22, 08:10 PM
You can't do very much, even then. Comparatively, I can get 24d8 with monk fists.

pray tell?24d8 seems quite a bit...
lvl 20 monk has 2d10 if he's medium, with superior unarmed strike you get +4 lvls for unarmed strike damage is pretty useless since (according to the epic level handbook) unarmed damage doesnt increase after lvl 16. and so if you max out size you get 12d8...?

also on the topic of oversized arrows, if you're gonna go through all the trouble to get oversized arrows and make you character's size to fit it, just get a balista which you can shrink enough to fit in a bag of holding...:smallbiggrin:
it can be useful in more ways than anyone might contemplate :smalltongue:

Arbitrarity
2007-05-22, 08:13 PM
Ah, right!

Monk kensai with returning throwing distance fists and far shot!

40 ft range increment!

Up to the cheesed 24d8, or for enlarged person goliath with imp unarmed strike, a mere 8d8, at size large!

To get 24d8 fists: UMD'd scroll, giant size, goliath, imp unarmed strike. 6 effective size increases, for 2 more than the 12d8, doubling, so 24d8.

Ah!

Of course!

Ok. We get the arrows, and we ignore conservation of momentum. We then use shrink item. We then get very, very big arrows, and use shrink item, to get down to the 8d8's. In flight, unshrink em, and you have 32d8 arrows!

Game breaking, logic defying, fringe legal... it's "borderline" optimization :smallwink:

kemmotar
2007-05-22, 08:48 PM
you can actually make a monk's fists ranged weapons?or rather throwing weapons?
also about unshrinking arrows...its a bit too much for most DMs to accept isn't it?
i mean first cast shrink(theoretically before battle), shoot the arrow and then free action to use the command word to unshrink.
also so big a monk would actually be quite unreasonable to play even if you just used an item to become so big and that isn't your actual size but then again...you wouldnt be able to use it half the places( ie dungeons and enclosed spaces) completely defeats the meaning of being discreet (when needed)...
also if you are a rogue you can add massive sneak attacks to that to just finish off just about anything...

Arbitrarity
2007-05-22, 08:55 PM
Shrink objects lasts DAYS per caster level.

The throwing thing is a funny use of kensai, since you can enhance a weapon, i.e. your fists, you can apply properties, i.e. throwing.

If I have a throwing, not returning fist, what happens?

And yeah, the size is a bit impractical. Luckily, your fists, if you enhance the with metalline, can be adamantine, and you can punch through roughly 5 ft of rock in a round. (12*9=108+str mod, for (as giant sized, warning, expensive) 130 damage per hit, 5 hits per round, 650 damage, 120 hp per foot of stone.)

Seffbasilisk
2007-05-22, 08:58 PM
Kensai: Throwing, Returning, Flaming, EXPLOSIVE, Blood-seeking fists.

crazedloon
2007-05-22, 09:01 PM
and if you want a visual aid (a bad one but one none the less) look at my avatar :smallwink:

kemmotar
2007-05-22, 09:05 PM
any DM that allowed a kensai monk to make his fists throwing and returning and actually allowed him to use it would be insane imo...
ok its a valid projectile, it does quallify as a weapon not used as a throwing and according to the rules you can do it...if a player actually did that to me i would describe it like so:
"the monk tears off his fists and throws them at the enemy...they return to the monk after striking the enemy sorry (name of monk) you cant attack anymore...you have no way to throw your fists since you just ripped them off" :smallwink:
now go to the nearest temple and get them reattached if you want and go meditate to change the throwing-returning properties of your fists...

Dark Tira
2007-05-22, 09:06 PM
Let's see....

Half Ogre with human heritage feat
+
Strongarm bracers
+
Potion of Enlarge Person/Belt of Growth
=
6d8 with Great Crossbow or 4d8 with a Greatbow.

Doesn't look promising since even a Colossal Great Crossbow only deals 8d8. If the DM allowed it a character with UMD and a 19th+ caster level scroll of Giant Size and wearing Strongarm Bracers could wield a Colossal+ Great Crossbow(assuming it had the Sizing ability) doing 12d8 damage.

And Monkey Grip only works with Melee weapons.

kemmotar
2007-05-22, 09:15 PM
i'd still go for the ballista...make it a large one too...anyone got the damage for that?
shrink it and put it in your bag of holding. take it out, command word back to normal size (the description of the spell says you can end the effect with the command word, plus something large goes to 1/16th of its size so large->diminutive...woot) wonder if you can add sneak attack damage to a ballista strike:smallbiggrin: