5e Master Support

[AboveJester]

Looking for some input on a support build Im putting together. Definitely not your typical archer.

Jester's Masterful Support

In my mind archers are support. They can still be powerful attackers with fighter, but as a support I feel they work more effectively.
When the heat is on and an ally falls they ARE the backup plan. So far I don't have an actual level progression, but I'm working on it.

So far, the best race I can name is the human. I know that half-elves are awesome, but human (Variants) gain a FEAT, if feats are allowed, at 1st level. Making them the clear choice.

For classes I tried Ranger, I play tested Ranger, and I've come to a sad conclusion. Ranger is worthless. Like, completely worthless. I really thought it had something there, but nope. It's garbage. So I went to the go to support, the BARD, and I've come up with this little combination.

BARD Lvl 10 (Min, College of Lore): As a support, don't need extra attack right away, besides you'll be getting that later, so you'll be in the College of Lorde, err Lore.. This is for multiple reasons.

Magical Secrets allows you to choose spells from other spell lists and make them Bard spells. Now everyone knows the "Swift Quiver" trick by now, but I'll explain it anyway. Rangers and Paladins learn lower level spells at higher levels, meaning you can gain some op spells if they're from those spell lists, and yes you will be picking up Swift Quiver at level 10.

Learn Haste using Magical Secrets at Lvl 6, and Swift Quiver at Lvl 10. The Spell Bestow Curse as soon as possible as it's an important part of how you deal damage. You'll be using a Familiar to deliver the touch attack most likely. By casting Bestow Curse as a 5th level spell it isn't considered a concentration spell.
Warlock (2 Lvl Dip): For warlock it doesn't matter what your patron is, you'll only be in it for two levels. You can go for
more if you want. You'll be taking Repelling Blast and Agonizing Blast to ELDRITCH BLAST ALL THE THING! and of course learn eldritch blast lol. For spells I would recommend Hex, which will stack with Bestow Curse if it's cast at 5th level or higher. You'll be using repelling blast whenever an ally is under too much fire to give them a turn to recover.
Now the real bread and butter. The Maneuvers from Battle Master really ties this class together. You'll be dominating the
playing field no matter where everyone is. You need to go to at least lvl 3, but I recommend going to 4 or 5 for the extra feat and extra attack. The remaining few levels would be up to you.
Feats! You need sharpshooter, of course. It'll madly help your damage in a pinch. Other feats I recommend would be
Spell Sniper if you go more into warlock, Skulker if youre trying to be sneaky. If your DM likes Mages choose Mage Slayer, but if he likes traps go with Dungeon Delver. Lucky WILL help big time. I love it. Turning disadvantage into advantage with three d20's is too much to ignore lol.
Damage Output: Assuming you're trying to kill a single target, and you already cast Swift Quiver and Bestow Curse, and assuming you're at 17th level or higher, AND you use Action Surge, you can dish out 4d10+4xcha, 4d10+4xcha, Bow damage, Bow damage, then +10d8 necromantic from Bestow Curse. That's without using Maneuvers. Assuming you only have to throw this damage out about once per long rest (Only to save a dying comrade) I think this Support build isn't bad. Plus, if you choose Pushing attack you can blast someone over 100ft away using action surge lol What do you guys think?

[Eldritch Memes]

The problem with this build is that you're relying on having 3 concentration spells up, which is way against RAW.

[Blood of Gaea]

If you want to be a support, why are you dipping Warlock for damage?...

Also Archers are not support, they are DPS.

Why not Rogue or expertise and cunning action, or Sorcerer to use meta magic to Twin or Quicken your buff spells? Or Cleric or healing?

Or I don't know... Why not just stay Bard? Consider the fact it is one of the best support classes.

[unwise]

I'm not really seeing what is "Support" about this character, it just seems like any other ranged DPS character to me. All the decisions being made seem to be to priorities damage over support.

I don't really see where Eldritch Bolt is coming into it, it seems to be spending two levels to do the same thing that you do with a bow. Is the pushing really worth it? Especially when you can throw on a superiority dice and knock them prone, disarm them or push them out of OA range anyway. Maybe I missed something.

Without College of Valour, the character won't be much of an archer for the first 10 levels, which is kind of the point of the build.

[Maxilian]

I'm not really seeing what is "Support" about this character, it just seems like any other ranged DPS character to me. All the decisions being made seem to be to priorities damage over support.

I don't really see where Eldritch Bolt is coming into it, it seems to be spending two levels to do the same thing that you do with a bow. Is the pushing really worth it? Especially when you can throw on a superiority dice and knock them prone, disarm them or push them out of OA range anyway. Maybe I missed something.

Without College of Valour, the character won't be much of an archer for the first 10 levels, which is kind of the point of the build.

I think the point of EB is to use it to control the battlefield (the ability to push anyone you hit with your EB its really good!)

I agree with everything else though, also... is true that this isn't really a big support character (just saying) and OP... no, the Ranger its not worthless (Have a really good damage -if go Hunter-, you can do many nice things with the Beastmaster)

[sophontteks]

The word you wish to use is DPS. that is an easy mistake to make, but understand that support is very different.
if you are support you would not be maximizing your damage or be concerned about your damage at all. you would be focused on maximizing your teams damage.
support is very effective but gets no glory.

someone mentioned this already. your final dps example is illegal. you can not have two concentration spells active at once. This may change a lot as you have many abilities that overlap concentration and bonus actions.

[AboveJester]

The problem with this build is that you're relying on having 3 concentration spells up, which is way against RAW.

Bestow Curse, when cast as a 5th level spell, does not require concentration to maintain. Depending on the situation and the amount of spell slots you would be casting Hex OR Swift Quiver, not both.


I'm not really seeing what is "Support" about this character, it just seems like any other ranged DPS character to me. All the decisions being made seem to be to priorities damage over support.

I don't really see where Eldritch Bolt is coming into it, it seems to be spending two levels to do the same thing that you do with a bow. Is the pushing really worth it? Especially when you can throw on a superiority dice and knock them prone, disarm them or push them out of OA range anyway. Maybe I missed something.

Without College of Valour, the character won't be much of an archer for the first 10 levels, which is kind of the point of the build.

Perhaps I highlighted damage too much. The point of the build is to be able to deal decent damage along with being a support. Combining inspiration with Battle Master is meant to be a way of creating a kind of field control. Allowing the player to assist comrades as needed. This is assuming that the party already has a fighter, tank, healer, and etc. Eldritch Blast, unfortunately, always overshadows everything else the first ten levels. It's just op. You could definitely use maneuvers instead of pushing the target, after level 10 you'll be doing both with Swift Quiver.

Also, every single character anyone makes should know Eldritch Blast lol You can take Magic Initiate, Spell Sniper, or just dip two levels into warlock to get it. It helps almost every build I can think of.


I think the point of EB is to use it to control the battlefield (the ability to push anyone you hit with your EB its really good!)

I agree with everything else though, also... is true that this isn't really a big support character (just saying) and OP... no, the Ranger its not worthless (Have a really good damage -if go Hunter-, you can do many nice things with the Beastmaster)

I played hunter and the damage is meh, only amplified because I multiclassed as assassin. All the good spells the ranger can cast are concentration spells, making them essentially worthless. Beast Master is just like having a bigger, angrier familiar. Not really anything helpful.

[sophontteks]

yes remove the dps example, which is against the rules anyway, and add more examples with how you support the team. Add scenarios that show how you support other players to deal damage or to prevent them from taking damage.

[Blood of Gaea]

Also, every single character anyone makes should know Eldritch Blast lol You can take Magic Initiate, Spell Sniper, or just dip two levels into warlock to get it. It helps almost every build I can think of.

You are overrating Eldritch Blast. The only time it is worth going out of you way, is if these questions are all yes.

1. Can I spare 2-3 levels from my build?
2. Will I have at least 16 CHA?
3. Do I need a ranged damage option?
4. Does this have synergy with my build?

Picking up Eldritch Blast from a perk isn't worth it, it is only really better then Firebolt because of Agonizing Blast, without that, it's only marginally better.

Instead of going through all this multiclassing, and grabbing of features that don't have synergy, why don't you try something like 3 Battle Master/17 Valor?

Start with 1 Fighter, then 6 Valor, then get 3 Battle Master, then finish Valor. You can also pick up the Martial Adept feat for an extra superiority die.

I'd suggest starting stats to be something like this(stat array):

Variant Human:
STR: 8 or 10
DEX: 14
CON: 13 +1
INT: 8 or 10
WIS: 12
CHA: 15 +1
Half-Elf:
STR: 8 or 10
DEX: 15 +1
CON: 13 +1
INT: 8 or 10
WIS: 12
CHA: 14 +2

Also, consider that 17 levels in Valor gains you 9th level spells. Foresight or True Polymorph are game changers. If you are willing to give up 1 level of fighter, you can get Wish.

Between the superiority die and Bard buffs, you fulfill support easily, and can still put damage out.

Pro-tip: To be a big help early on, buy 5-10 nets, and keep one on your belt at all times (to draw), if you land the ranged attack with it, they are restrained, and that is quite a strong status to apply. And you might even get your 1 gp net back if they die before they break it. Even if it breaks... only 1 gp loss. People spend 25-50 gp for damage potions. You can use a Maneuver when you throw the net.

Also make sure to carry a shortsword or rapier, no reason to become useless in close quarters, DEX is strong enough for melee. :)

[JAL_1138]

Fighter 1/Valor Bard X. Archery style. Heavy armor if you like (and can meet the STR prereqs), or stick to light or medium. Pick up Xbow Expert, Sharpshooter, and Bard 10 (11 overall) yoink Swift Quiver. When Swift Quivering, use a Heavy Xbow. When not, use hand Xbow.

Congrats, you're now one of the best archers in the game for as long as you have the spell slots for SQ, and a pretty darn good one the rest of the time. And while Combat Inspiration is inferior to Cutting Words, it ain't terrible. And you've got the bard spell list, which is a stellar support list already.

EDIT: Ninja'd. (BM3/VB17 is arguably stronger at 20, but takes longer to kick in.)

[Blood of Gaea]

(BM3/VB17 is arguably stronger at 20, but takes longer to kick in.)

In lower levels a single level of fighter is undoubtedly better, but you can just pick up the 2 levels later on, whenever you feel like you need it. :)