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Vattic Zero
2015-10-13, 12:30 AM
Hey everyone; Long time lurker, first time poster here.

I'm trying to put together a homebrew campaign setting where I am doing away with Tier 1 and Tier 2 classes, and this largely removes the most notable of casters. For both story and mechanics reasons, I am looking to adapt the Beguiler(and Warmage) class into a handful of separate classes to fill similar roles.

The initial basis of the concept is to divide the schools of magic into these handful of classes with minimal overlap. Also considering doing away with Arcane vs Divine.

To start, I would change the spell list of Beguiler to all of Enchantment and Illusion, likely excepting Illusion(Shadow.) I am unsure if I should allow access to all of the spell list as Beguiler currently does, or limit it to a spell selection as Sorcerer or greater.

Continuing from there, here are my starting ideas for these classes:

Beguiler - Int - Enchantment, Illusion(minus Shadow)
Warmage - Int - Evocation, Conjuration(Creation and Healing), Illusion(Shadow)
Oracle - Wis - Divination, Abjuration
Shaper - Cha - Transmutation, Necromancy
Summoner - Cha - Conjuration(Summon, Call, Teleportation, Healing)

Ideally I would like to find a way to balance these classes without using a cookie-cutter design and giving them some special abilities fitting of their schools and flavor(Beguiler has cloaked casting and Warmage has Warmage Edge.)

Does anyone have any ideas for special, thematic abilities for the other three classes? Suggestions for re-assigning the schools between the classes? Thoughts on inherent imbalances between the grouping of schools? Suggestions for how to balance through Hit Die, Skill Points, Saves, or Class Skills? Thoughts on whether any of these risk falling far from Tier 3? A better name for the 'Shaper' class?

TinyMushroom
2015-10-13, 12:48 AM
Do you know that there's a variant of these types of classes for necromancy as well? It's called Dread Necromancer, and it's found in Heroes of Horror.

Alyka
2015-10-13, 09:16 AM
I'd recommend the summoner getting temporary features of the creatures he/she summons so that there is something to do when not casting summon monster. Allowing the directly offensive conjuration spells could be making it too versatile and replace the warmage.

Reserve spells might be helpful for the characters to get some controlled versatility in.

Stratovarius
2015-10-13, 09:43 AM
Not my own classes, but I've helped a little with each, and I liked them - Oracle (Div/Abj) (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=481.0) and Summoner (Conj) (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=15906.0). That really only leaves the Transmuter class unaccounted for.

I'd be careful about opening up the lists too much - that's going to bring back a whole number of the problems that the Sorcerer and Wizard already have. After all, it's not like the Sorcerer knows more spells than a Beguiler, by and large, but rather the versatility of that list that's the issue at hand. Transmutation (one of the two strongest schools), blended with Necromancy, which has its own benefits, is going to be the runaway winner out of the lists you've currently defined them.

Vattic Zero
2015-10-13, 01:17 PM
Excellent suggestions so far!

I couldn't figure out why no one had tried this before, glad to see the classes by RobbyPants to work off of.

I'd forgotten about Dread Necromancer, and if Transmutation + Necromancy, then maybe it should be divided into 6 classes.

So, considering those suggestions I have:

All have Armored Mage(Light)?
Beguiler - Int - Enchantment & Illusion(minus Shadow)
d6, 6, .75, Will, Trapfinding, Cloaked/Surprise Casting, 2 Wiz Feats
Warmage - Int - Evocation, Conjuration(Creation, Healing), Illusion(Shadow)
d6, 2, .75, Will, Edge, Armored Mage(Med), Turn/Rebuke Undead, 4 Wiz Feats
Dread Necromancer - Cha - Necromancy
d6, 2, .5, Will, C.Touch, DR, Burst, Save Bonus, Aura, S.Touch, Familiar, U.Mastery, N.E.Res, E.Touch, Lich
1 Wiz Feat
Oracle - Wis - Divination & Abjuration
d4, 4, .75, Ref?+Will, MonkAC, Trap Sense, Evasion, Uncanny Dodge, Dispel Mastery, 3? Wiz Feats
Summoner - Cha - Conjuration(Summon, Call, Teleportation, Healing)
d6, 4, .5, Will, Dispel Ward, Summon Group, Master Binder, Magical Ward, Summon Horde+, Abduct
Direct Summons(free concentration-duration buff to summons?), Turn/Rebuke Endead/Summons, 3 Wiz Feats?
Transmuter - Wis - Transmutation
d8, 4, .75, Fort+Will, Wild Shape, 4 Wiz Feats? *Basically Druid replacement?

Zaydos
2015-10-13, 02:04 PM
Here's my take on an Abjuration/Divination (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?228046-Countermage-Spontaneous-Abjurer-Diviner-%283-5-PEACH%29) specialist in Beguiler/Dread Necromancer style, there might be something you can scavenge from it but it was Abjuration more than Divination.