Forgotten Realms

[Gaelbert]

I'm thinking about starting to read the Forgotten Realms books, what books in that universe would you recommend I read first?

[twerk_face]

Oh, without a doubt, The Icewind Dale Trilogy. It is the first, and in my opinion the best, of the Drittz series. Recently, Bob had just been writing the books under contract so they have gotten progresively worse, but the Icewind Dale and Dark Elf trilogies are absolutely astounding (as well as The Cleric Quintet, his other main forgotten realms book, which is, in my opinion, his second best behind the Icewind Dale tilogy), and Legacy of the Drow and Paths of Darkness are very good as well.

But if you want to start a new fantasy series, go with His Dark Materials, the Golden Compass series. It is astoundingly amazing. It's deep, thought provoking, exciting, action-packed, and just amazing. I can't say enough good things about it.

Oh well, post if you need more detailed descriptions of the Realms books i mentioned, i'm kind of an expert. :smalltongue:

[EvilElitest]

I'm thinking about starting to read the Forgotten Realms books, what books in that universe would you recommend I read first?

I think reading all of salvator's work is the best bet, he really does a good job making the realms feel realistic
Don't read Ed green wood, however, he is a good game deisner, but an ahorrid writer
from,
EE

[JadedDM]

If you can, get ahold of the Finder Stone trilogy. To me, it's probably one of the best series in FR.

I'll agree with EvilElitest, though, I can't stand Greenwood. Particularly any book he writes about Elminster.

[EvilElitest]

If you can, get ahold of the Finder Stone trilogy. To me, it's probably one of the best series in FR.

I'll agree with EvilElitest, though, I can't stand Greenwood. Particularly any book he writes about Elminster.

And so, Elminster faced teh greatest monster from hell. And he blew it up.
Then he faced another one, and he blew it up, then he blew up the next one, and the next one

Then he bedded every single women in existence who was unspeakable hot and because teh chosen

Horray
Ironically, Elminster is not a bad character when somebody else writes about him
from,
EE

[EmeraldRose]

Hmm...I'd start with the Evermeet book. It's a good solid history of the Elves. It does throw in some extra stuff from previous books, but you can pick those up later...

The War of the Spider Queen Series is PHENOMENAL!!! Also some of the new up and coming writers in the Realms. Many of their other books are good.

[Gaelbert]

But if you want to start a new fantasy series, go with His Dark Materials, the Golden Compass series. It is astoundingly amazing. It's deep, thought provoking, exciting, action-packed, and just amazing. I can't say enough good things about it.

I agree. I've already read that trilogy and I think it was masterfully written.

[Elidyr]

I would stick to the Drizzt series, while it may be a bit cheesy, it's still a lot better then some of the other ones.

Take a look at the Moonshae Trilogy, one of the most horrible books I've ever read. It mostly goes like this: Evil bad monster wreaks havoc, good guys nearly die, what to do, what to doooo? *poof* deus ex machina , some farm girl casts a level 10000000 spell and destroys every bad guy and everyone lives happily ever after.

Try to avoid the drow books too (Drizzt ones are okay). The rest are pretty much a much poorer version of the first Drizzt book with magic items that help move the weak story along.

Also try avoiding Greenwood's earlier books, pretty terrible to read.

[Attilargh]

Try the Dark Elf and the Icewind Dale. The former is chronologically the first, but Salvatore wrote the latter before it. They are not too bad. Approach the rest with a fair amount of caution, as the quality falls quickly. (Although Artemis Entreri and Jarlaxe are quite cool characters.)

Salvatore's Cleric Quintet is pretty standard stuff. I might be a tad more impressed with it had I not read the 2nd edition Villain's Lorebook (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/downloads). Note that this is set chronologically before the Drizzt books.

Ed Greenwood's Elminster books are pretty good buys. They make for an elitistic doorstop, for one. :smallwink: Plus, you can throw them at people. (Okay, so they're not that bad. But they're not very good either.)

I might recommend you to try some of Elaine Cunningham's books, just because I like the characters.

But one series anyone should read is the Avatar Series by various people, as it depicts one of the most important events in the history of the Realms; the Time of Troubles. It's not even half-bad.

[The J Pizzel]

I started it all with The Cleric Quintet and followed that with Icewind Dale and The Dark Elf Trilogy, in that order. They were all good read. By the time you get to Legacy of the Drow and Paths of Darkness, you'll be getting tired of the characters. I've had to take a long break from R. A. Salvatore and read some other stuff. I just finished Dragonlacne Chronicles and I'm thinking of reading the trilogy that everyone raves about on these forums: The (something) of Ice and Fire. I can't remember what it is right now though. Anyway, I'd suggest Icewind Dale followed by the The Dark Elf Trilogy. The first introduces all the character very nicely and the second is the origins of Drizzt. There both good reads.

jp

[Attilargh]

I'm thinking of reading the trilogy that everyone raves about on these forums: The (something) of Ice and Fire. I can't remember what it is right now though.
A Song of Ice and Fire, by George R.R. Martin, and it's not a trilogy. According to Martin, it'll be a septualogy (which is a fancy way of saying "a series that consists of seven parts").

[The J Pizzel]

Good to know, thanks.

jp

[tetsubo]

I second the avatar series. Also the first two drizzit trilogies. but read them in the order they were written not not the retooled way WOTC put them in. IE. The Icewind Dale Trilogy then The Dark Elf Trilogy. Thats the way they were ment to be read. After that the books get progressivly worse reashes of each other.

[FdL]

So far I enjoy a lot what I've read of Drizzt, but it's true that you have to keep the reading order. I skipped the Dark Elf Trilogy, then I found that Legacy of the Drow is pretty based on that trilogy for what it happens. So it's better to read it in the publishing order.

I'm thinking of reading the Standing Stone trilogy, maybe something about Elminster, or the Moonshae series. There's a lot of them I'd read. But first I want to finish everything there is with Drizzt.

[knightsaline]

The year of the Rogue Dragons is a good trilogy. its just basically every single dragon in the realms goes crazy and starts rampaging, all because of an Epic spell cast aeons ago (at least, according to a source book released around 2004, which, coincidentally was the year of rogue dragons in the FR calender.)

if you want to read some dragonlance, stick to any written by Margaret Weis, one of the creators of Dragonlance.Dragons of a summer flame is one of the best books in the series. I bought it for myself at borders around Christmas time and had it gift wrapped so I would have something to read at the time . make sure you read the core books (chronicles, legends, 2nd generation, flame, war of souls and lost chronicles), otherwise, you might be a bit confused about continuity. such is the problem with shared worlds.

[Sereneprophet]

Well if you want a somewhat easy entrance, theres the Eberron Books, which are just getting off the floor. I like Eberron, some dont, so its a personal preference. Some of the books are a little ick, but overall they area readable.

Same with any Forgotten Realms or Dragonlance. My best advice? Pick a book series that sounds interesting, like those mentioned or the Last Mythal trilogy, stuff like that, and just get all the books in that to start. Usually if you have some basic knowledge of the setting, you will understand it pretty easily. At least I did.

And some books are better written than others, but frankly, I havnt really not enjoyed a book in either three series, but im not exceptionally picky, so long as I enjoy the setting.

[Kyrian]

If you can find it, I'd recommend the Harpers series. I personally have read several from this series an enjoyed it.

Other recommends from me:


Any Drizzt. Period. I don't care what others say, I've enjoyed every single one.
War of the Spider Queen. I need to find and reread this one. I read the first few, but kinda stopped once I was finished before the next book had come out.

[God_of_Luck]

I reccomend the Harpers series too. Also read Erik Scott de Bie's Depths of Madness. It has a goliath and a warlock :smallbiggrin: .

[Lycurgus]

Greenwood's books have fantastic flavor. The Sembia series is a good set with the Erevis Cale series as a follow-up. Phil Athans' Watercourse Trilogy, the last of which comes out this month is also very good. Scions of Arrabar and House of Serpents trilogies both take place in a region not written about much before and both are good. Ok...so I own and have read every Realms novel in print, so sue me. :smallcool:

[Sereneprophet]

Some new ones for ya anywho.

The Gossamer Plain-Was fairly interesting, a neat continuation of characters from previous series, aka Kannyr Vhok and Alyzza. Not to mention a little..left behind something by a certain drow mage from a previous series. Definately interesting for those interested in the most planar and celestial aspects.

Unclean- A new series set in Thay, thats well...crazy. If you've ever had a thing for Red Wizards, or Undead then this book is definately a thing youll wanna check out. Certainly shaking up this part of the world, they are.


Sadly both of these wont finish till 09, but alas.

[Jewish_Joke]

I suggest anything by Elaine Cunnigham, she's a fabulous writer that really captures not only the depth, scope, and history of the Realms, but makes very character-driven stories. The Windwaker Trilogy, for example, is a great read (albeit with a lack-luster climax for the third book) and has many connections to the Drizzt saga.

I reluctantly recommend the Drizzt Series as well. I enjoyed the Hunter's Blade the most, as it stands alone as a trilogy and has the primary antagonist as a tortured Orc King who actually does something for his people.

Avoid anything by Richard Baker and Troy Denning.

[Matthew]

But one series anyone should read is the Avatar Series by various people, as it depicts one of the most important events in the history of the Realms; the Time of Troubles. It's not even half-bad.

Dead on. You should definitely read this series for The Forgotten Realms. Most of the Drizzt books are poor to say the least, but compared to some of the other stuff published, they're master pieces. I recall enjoying Spellfire as well, though I cannot really say why. I also thought Horselords was a good read, but I never progressed through the series.

I do recall finding some of the short stories set in the Forgotten Realms fairly palatable.

[EvilElitest]

I second the avatar series. Also the first two drizzit trilogies. but read them in the order they were written not not the retooled way WOTC put them in. IE. The Icewind Dale Trilogy then The Dark Elf Trilogy. Thats the way they were ment to be read. After that the books get progressivly worse reashes of each other.

Not quite true, the series holds true in the next five books whose name escapes me (Legacy of the drow perhaps?). Then you have a trilogy that is worth reading only once and never touching again, then the Hunter's Blade trilogy that while not as good as before, is still very good, worth the read, and follow it all up with the trilogry featuring Enterai.
The cleric quintent is good if you like villians more than hero
The war of the Spider Queen is a amazing in the first book, very good in the second, Good in the third, the fourth is decent, the 5th is awful, and the sixth i hear is very good
And read the daugther of the drow series, not amazing but pretty good

DON'T read the Moonshine series, or whatever they are called just awful

Oh and play the Baldur's Gate and Icewind dale series, helps (but don't read the books)
from,
EE
EDIT: On yeah read the Harper Series, very good

If you like salvator books, read the Demon wars series set in his own world, very very good, if much more gritty

[Amiria]

War of the Spider Queen. I need to find and reread this one. I read the first few, but kinda stopped once I was finished before the next book had come out.


I have read only the first one so far - borrowed from a friend. He read the first five of the six. He rated them in chronological order A, B, C, D, E. He didn't bother to buy the last one.

But the first one was really good. I also enjoyed the Drizzt books.

[Raistlin1040]

I agree with Kyrian. ANY Drizzt book. They are like made of Pure Awesome. I've read the first two of the Cleric Quintet and they are solid, if a bit dissapointing after reading Drizzt.

[Gavin Sage]

I think Drizzt can be declared almost unversially recomended. I still enjoy all the books as good quick and very fun reads. Cleric Quintet though strikes me as a bit.... silly for a book about a cleric and for what it deals with though.

I also recomend Elaine Cunnigham's work, namely Elfshadow and Elfsong though the others in that series are alright but are nigh impossible to get. And Evermeet is the Simarillion for FR. I also cast anathema on Ed Greenwood's writing especially with Elminster, because Elminster's real name is ElMarySue and he's not suited for main charactership. And for when those authors came together for a Waterdeep book (which should have been wonderful) the writing favored Greenwood and not even Elaith Craulnober could save it.

(Which reminds me, why doesn't Elaith Craulnober have a book of his own, or have I missed it?)

[Lycurgus]

The only problem with Greenwood's writing is the editors that want all books to be frenetic hack-and-slash or blow up the world kind of stuff. His books written under other publishers are outstanding. When you take out the parts of the book that allow the complexities throughout the rest of the book to click into place, it can seriously hurt the story, plain and simple. Zhents are meant to be devious, evil, and underhanded not Larry, Curly, and Moe.

[RTGoodman]

I started reading FR stuff with Salvatore's Drizz't stuff. I didn't like the Dark Elf trilogy that much (other than the first book), but I thought the Icewind Dale trilogy was awesome. I'd suggest reading those two series, and probably the rest (even though I haven't gotten around to them yet). I think that, honestly, the Cleric Quintet is better than the Drizz't books. I like the characters much more (well, besides Wulfgar and Bruenor), and I thought that the books were better written.

I tried to read the Avatar series, but I was a little disappointed. The first was just okay, I barely managed to get through the second, and then I gave up somewhere during the third. Yeah, they're probably important, but I just didn't like any of the characters at all. Except Helm, but he's one of my favorite FR gods anyway.

[Dhavaer]

(Which reminds me, why doesn't Elaith Craulnober have a book of his own, or have I missed it?)

Elaith pops in to Elaine Cunningham's Songs and Swords books. Her Starlight and Shadows trilogy is very good, and worth reading.

[Matthew]

I started reading FR stuff with Salvatore's Drizz't stuff. I didn't like the Dark Elf trilogy that much (other than the first book), but I thought the Icewind Dale trilogy was awesome. I'd suggest reading those two series, and probably the rest (even though I haven't gotten around to them yet). I think that, honestly, the Cleric Quintet is better than the Drizz't books. I like the characters much more (well, besides Wulfgar and Bruenor), and I thought that the books were better written.

I tried to read the Avatar series, but I was a little disappointed. The first was just okay, I barely managed to get through the second, and then I gave up somewhere during the third. Yeah, they're probably important, but I just didn't like any of the characters at all. Except Helm, but he's one of my favorite FR gods anyway.
Interesting. It's been a long time since I read the Avatar Trilogy (like ten years or something), but I recently reread Icewind Dale and I thought it was pretty poor fare. Have to reread the Avatar Trilogy to see if I'm remembering it with rose tinted glasses...

[Reinforcements]

I don't know how they compare to other Forgotten Realms books, but anything by R.A. Salvatore is utter lowest-common-denominator, banal crap. Where dime-store romance novelists write graphic descriptions of sex, Salvatore writes graphic descriptions of combat. That, or Drizzt monologues (read: whines).

[Matthew]

Hah, hah. I think that's pretty much a given, the question rather is about how they compare to the other books. So far, the consensus seems to be that Greenwood's work is even worse.

You know, it might be worth just reading the free second edition sourcebooks available from Wizards, rather than the novels with which they are associated...

[FdL]

I don't know how they compare to other Forgotten Realms books, but anything by R.A. Salvatore is utter lowest-common-denominator, banal crap. Where dime-store romance novelists write graphic descriptions of sex, Salvatore writes graphic descriptions of combat. That, or Drizzt monologues (read: whines).

Oh, well...Anyone under the belief that reading FR novels he's going to find masterpieces of modern literature is wrong... :p
I don't think they're so bad, they're entertaining. They're basically "best-sellers", commercial stuff which is not going to awe anyone. But they're still good for what they are.

So I don't know, I think that in context your commentary is overly negative, especially considering that many of us enjoy Salvatore's novels, and this is a thread aimed at those who do enjoy this kind of literature, regardless of its relative status in the literary canon.

[Matthew]

I dunno, I think they're pretty bad for what they are (i.e. Fantasy Novels), but once you accept that they're Forgotten Realms Novels, it's not so bad. Saying that, I only read the first seven Drizzt books and only one of them recently, so I can't say how the genre has progressed.

I would say the Dragonlance Books are much closer to standard Fantasy Novel fare.

[Liliedhe]

I would like to voice another question. Maybe you wise sages can enlighten me *grins apologetically*

I've read the Drizzt books - the first 6 are great, the others ok - and the first four volumes of the Avatar series - loved them. Now my two questions:

- my favourite characters in Prince of Lies were Gwydion, Rinda and Fzoul Chembryl. Are there any other books about them? Especially about Fzoul *has a bad 'fictional person' crush on him*

- what's your opinion about the fifth Avatar book? Will I hate it, if I loved the others (some reviews on amazon sounded like that). If characters like Gwydion oder Kelemvor get treated badly or are written out in a nasty way I'd rather not read it... It's hard to unread a book ;).

Thanks in advance :smallsmile:

[EvilElitest]

I don't know how they compare to other Forgotten Realms books, but anything by R.A. Salvatore is utter lowest-common-denominator, banal crap. Where dime-store romance novelists write graphic descriptions of sex, Salvatore writes graphic descriptions of combat. That, or Drizzt monologues (read: whines).

whine whine whine, it is always dissaporting not seeing somebody back up what they say. Unless you do, then it is all classified as crude whine
from,
EE

[Gavin Sage]

Elaith pops in to Elaine Cunningham's Songs and Swords books. Her Starlight and Shadows trilogy is very good, and worth reading.

Exactly he pops in and she obviously well like the character. He's definitely interesting to warrant a book. But he doesn't have one that is out right Elaith Craulnober. Albeit The Dream Spheres comes close, but is just too all over the place to count.

And I've read Starlight and Shadows, the first one is the only really interesting one though. Elfshadow is still the best of her work as far as I'm concerned.

[Pyre]

I tend to like a lot of books that probably aren't really 'good', just because I tend to get into stories easily. That being said, I find most of Ed Greenwood's work to be not that good. You have to understand, Ed IS Elminster. He's old, ugly, but yet all the hot women want him. And I mean like, all.

I actually pretty much enjoyed all the War of the Spider Queen books. I hope the wizard comes back in other stories, he's by far my favorite character.

[Gaelbert]

You know, it might be worth just reading the free second edition sourcebooks available from Wizards, rather than the novels with which they are associated...

So where exactly could you find those? Also, I love Dragonlance. I'm a Dragonlance addict, although recently I've broke the addiction. Any good new Dragonlance books out in the last three months or so?

[Dhavaer]

So where exactly could you find those?

Right here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/downloads).

[Lycurgus]

Salvatore was interviewed on the D&D podcast. It pretty much told me what I'd thought, but was worth a listen.

[Matthew]

Um, so what did you think?

[Manga Shoggoth]

The Forgotten Realms books - like a lot of "genre" fiction - have a tendency to be shallow, and when they run in a series tend to weaken towards the end. That doesn't necessarly mean that they aren't fun to read, but don't look for great prose...


I felt that the Cleric Quintet started well but finished badly; the Icewind Dale trilogy was amusing and enjoyable, but the prequels and sequels were of rapidly diminishing quality.

The first Moonshae book was quite good, but the (unnecessary, in my view) sequels were progressively weaker.

Azure Bonds/Finders Spur/Masquearade was enjoyable (you may notice that I skipped the third book in the sequence, partly because I can't remember the title, and partly because it is the weakest of the series). I would happily recommend them.

[JadedDM]

(you may notice that I skipped the third book in the sequence, partly because I can't remember the title, and partly because it is the weakest of the series)

Song of the Saurials.

Hey, I didn't know there was a fourth book...I should look into that.

[JeffreyToTheMax]

Maybe I'm defective, but I think Paul S. Kemp is by far the best FR writer, followed closely by R.A. Salvatore. The Erevis Cale books are all favorites of mine, and while the Drizzt books don't seem to be as good as they used to be, they are still worth reading in my opinion.

I never really got into Dragonlance. I'm not sure how to explain it, but it just has an entirely different feel that I didn't like much. (And I tried quite hard to like it so I'd have something in common with a girl who read it almost exclusively, but that didn't work out.)

[PaladinBoy]

I'll join in with the masses in advocating R.A. Salvatore and the Icewind Dale trilogy. The Dark Elf trilogy isn't bad either, and the Drizzt books pretty much go downhill from there (again echoing many others). I also read and liked the Cleric Quintet.

Beyond that, I'd say the War of the Spider Queen series and perhaps Spellfire by Ed Greenwood. That one is actually part of a trilogy, but IMO the other two books are pretty bad. I recently read The Return of the Archwizards trilogy by Troy Denning; it details the return of the city of Shade, which seems to have become a rather important event. It wasn't horrible, but it wasn't as good as some of the other options.

Finally, branching out to Eberron, I recently picked up the Dragon Below trilogy and the first two books of the Dreaming Dark trilogy; both are very good IMO. Well, as good as these novels can get.

[MaxKaladin]

The only problem with Greenwood's writing is the editors that want all books to be frenetic hack-and-slash or blow up the world kind of stuff. His books written under other publishers are outstanding. When you take out the parts of the book that allow the complexities throughout the rest of the book to click into place, it can seriously hurt the story, plain and simple. Zhents are meant to be devious, evil, and underhanded not Larry, Curly, and Moe.QFT.

If you look around on the net (at places like Candlekeep), you can find commentary from Ed about this sort of thing. There's a lot of stuff he'd like to put in his books but his editors keep pushing for 'more action' and cutting all the 'boring' stuff. I know I've seen a long piece from him about all the stuff that was cut out of one of his books and it was all plot and character development stuff and setting detail. I think I saw something on Candlekeep where he basically said that the editors have decided that the core audience is the 12 year old male and that what appeals to that audience is lots of hack and slash so that's what they want him to write while keeping the 'boring' stuff to a minimum. Perhaps he's just blowing smoke to justify Mary-Sue-ism, but I'm not inclined to think so. The attitude he describes seems quite in line with the rest of WotCs D&D-related publication strategy.

[DomaDoma]

Dark Elf Trilogy was definitely the high point of Salvatore's career, in my book. I mean, Sojourn with Roddy McGristle beats Streams of Silver with Artemis freakin' Entreri. I think it's all the Wacky Stopovers - southern barbarians, eccentric mage family, &c. - which (YMMV) should be excised out of all quest fiction with Sweeney's razor. Halfling's Gem was better about that, but that Arabian Nights portion? Painful, and this is coming from someone who enjoys WWII propaganda cartoons.

Crystal Shard, on the other hand, is just plain awesome. Especially the worldbuilding.

I really should check out War of the Spider Queen, though. The drow intrigues were always one of the best parts.