Feat allowing casting of 1 more spont spell, but Con+Str drain?

[OttoVonBigby]

First off, if there's already a feat (or PrC feature or something) that does this, I'd like to know its name and source. My initial research didn't yield one.

Anyway, it's a well-worn trope that "overdoing it" with magic can drain your life force. Wilders have Psychic Enervation, but I feel like this kind of option should not be limited to a psionic class.

What I'm thinking is this:
Prerequisite: Spontaneous arcane caster
Benefit: You can cast one additional spontaneous arcane spell beyond your daily limit of any level you are normally able to cast, but at the start of the spell's casting time, you take 1d4 points of ability drain, +1 per level of the spell being cast, to both Constitution and Strength.

Draining two ability scores would seem to prevent casters with cleric buddies from abusing the feat too egregiously (since it'd take two restorations or one greater to recover). Is it *too* punitive, though? Is it missing something to plug any holes?

[Necroticplague]

Sounds like an excellent feat for a Necropolitan or a Ghost (assuming it can be used more than once per day). Excellent to the point of brokenness. I don't see why you couldn't just go with a magical Overchannel or Body Fuel.

[OttoVonBigby]

Looking at Body Fuel, I see your point. So maybe "1 point of ability drain per level of spell cast to all 3 physical ability scores", plus that requirement that you are living?

Makes it unlikely anybody would use it for a high-level spell......except at the direst end of need :smallamused:

[Necroticplague]

Looking at Body Fuel, I see your point. So maybe "1 point of ability drain per level of spell cast to all 3 physical ability scores" Eh, not quite. One power point isn't worth one spell level. it's actually worth a bit less. But in order to avoid getting more complicated, that should work.



plus that requirement that you are living?

Southern Magician clerics or druids with Sheltered Vitality, Warforged Juggernauts.

[Flickerdart]

I don't see why you couldn't just go with a magical Overchannel or Body Fuel.
Because Body Fuel really, really sucks, perhaps.

[Doc_Maynot]

You could make it less, but make it Ability Burn so only natural healing can heal it (though Naberius does put a wrench in even that)
As is, it's not just a great feat for undead, but a few other niche cases can lead to break it, even when change the prereqs to living (though I reccomend you change it to similar to the Hellfire Warlock's Hellfire Blast "if you do not have a Constitution score or are somehow immune to Constitution damage, you cannot use this ability.")

Potential breaking points I can see, even if you made it Ability Burn: Naberius, and Arcane Disciple + Renewal + Mitigate Suffering

Honestly, I'd love to take that feat on a Sorcerer/Binder/Anima Mage. It'd just feel right.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Doesn't Naberius heal ability damage and ability drain? Ability burn is neither of these and should unaffected.

[Necroticplague]

Doesn't Naberius heal ability damage and ability drain? Ability burn is neither of these and should unaffected.

Ability burn is a type of ability damage.


This is a special form of ability damage that cannot be magically or psionically healed. It is caused by the use of certain psionic feats and powers. It returns only through natural healing.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Ability burn is a type of ability damage.

Fair enough. Then my only other question is whether or not Naberius counts as magical healing. I am inclined to say yes as it is a magical adjustment to the healing rules, but I could be off.

[torrasque666]

Southern Magician clerics or druids with Sheltered Vitality, Warforged Juggernauts.
Some sort of limit like "if you cannot take the damage you cannot use the feat"? similar to Hellfire Warlock's requirement on Hellfire Blast? (or whatever its called)

[Necroticplague]

Because Body Fuel really, really sucks, perhaps.

And the spell equivalent, especially the one we're discussing so far, would be better. Theoretically, there's some PP/damage ratio that would be acceptable. But I agree, Body Fuel's ratio is way too low (honestly, I think the ratio should scale with ML). However, as I pointed out earlier, spell slot of a level > same amount of pp as a number. Level 9 spell slot>9 PP.


Fair enough. Then my only other question is whether or not Naberius counts as magical healing. I am inclined to say yes as it is a magical adjustment to the healing rules, but I could be off.

None of Naberius's abilities are labelled SU, EX, Psi, or SP, so I think that makes them all natural abilities. Thus, not magical, and thus works on ability burn. Which, if you look at it as being an analogy to Fast Healing, makes sense (as Fast Healing is natural healing, just sped up, Ability fast healing is your natural ability to heal ability damage, sped up).


Some sort of limit like "if you cannot take the damage you cannot use the feat"? similar to Hellfire Warlock's requirement on Hellfire Blast? (or whatever its called)
Well, Hellfire can be cheated with a Strongheart Vest, so we need something a little more foolproof than that. Something along the lines of "The ability [damage/drain/burn] is a cost of the ability, not an additional effect,thus if the damage is reduced in any way, so is the corresponding spell granted."

[torrasque666]

None of Naberius's abilities are labelled SU, EX, Psi, or SP, so I think that makes them all natural abilities. Thus, not magical, and thus works on ability burn. Which, if you look at it as being an analogy to Fast Healing, makes sense (as Fast Healing is natural healing, just sped up, Ability fast healing is your natural ability to heal ability damage, sped up).
That's covered in the "Granted Abilities" Section on page 19. All granted powers are Supernatural, even if they replicate a Spell or abilities not normally magical.

[Troacctid]

There is a feat like it: Extra Slot gives you an extra spell slot without the drawback.

[OttoVonBigby]

Extra Slot is always fixed at the spell level you selected it at, and can't be used with your highest spell level. My proposed feat (I'll call it "Arcane Lifedrain" unless a better name presents itself) could be used more flexibly. A character with enough physical points could use it more than once in a combat, if necessary.

Regarding the hellfire blast-style stricture: how about something like...
"Because you are tapping a part of your essence in exchange for this spell, you must take the associated drain, and if you lack any of the physical attribute scores or are somehow immune to the associated drain, you cannot use this ability."

I sort of vaguely feel like making the "1 point of ability ___ per level of spell cast to all 3 physical ability scores" into ability burn makes the feat so rough that just about nobody would take it. I'm open to argument on that point, though.