Multiclassing Swiftblade....

[Masakan]

I know it depends on build but what would be the ideal stopping point for swiftblade.
All I know for sure is that it's between 3,5 and 9

[ZamielVanWeber]

6 is a better break point than 5. 6 gives you +1 BAB, +1 to all saves, a boost to casting, +10% miss chance to Blurred Alacrity and Evasive Celerity and makes your haste spells Ex after being cast, so not only are they undispellable but they function in an AMF and given that all the other features of Swift Blade are Ex it makes you function extremely well upon entering an AMF.

Edit: 10 is actually not that bad a level. I can see the lack of appeal but +10% to Evasive Celerity and weakened time stop as a 6th level spell are not terrible. Its usefulness depends on what level your campaign ends.

[Necroticplague]

Depends on what you want out of the class. I would personally go for 9 levels (since Perpetual Options is, frankly, awesome), and then think very carefully about if the CL loss is worth Innervated Speed. Of course, I tend to prefer martial characters to spellcasting ones, and would probably fast-track my way into it with as little casting as possible. The most essential break points would be the ones where taking it would mean losing another CL, so 3, 6, and 9.

[Masakan]

6 is a better break point than 5. 6 gives you +1 BAB, +1 to all saves, a boost to casting, +10% miss chance to Blurred Alacrity and Evasive Celerity and makes your haste spells Ex after being cast, so not only are they undispellable but they function in an AMF and given that all the other features of Swift Blade are Ex it makes you function extremely well upon entering an AMF.

Edit: 10 is actually not that bad a level. I can see the lack of appeal but +10% to Evasive Celerity and weakened time stop as a 6th level spell are not terrible. Its usefulness depends on what level your campaign ends.

What if the character used a bard as a base? you wouldn't even GET to use inverted speed unless you optimized your character around it.

[Necroticplague]

What if the character used a bard as a base? you wouldn't even GET to use inverted speed unless you optimized your character around it.

False. Unless you lost more caster levels somewhere, bard 16 casting gets you a sixth level spell slot, assuming one's charisma is high enough.

[Nihilarian]

What if the character used a bard as a base? you wouldn't even GET to use inverted speed unless you optimized your character around it.inverted speed only requires a 6th level spell slot, so Bards can use it perfectly fine. Eventually.

[Masakan]

inverted speed only requires a 6th level spell slot, so Bards can use it perfectly fine. Eventually.

That's what I mean though...to me it just seems WAY too slow to be worth it, so Im going with Zamiel Level 6 seems like a find place to stop least for what I got planned.

[sleepyphoenixx]

While pretty much all the class abilities are good Perpetual Options is the Swiftblade's true gem imo.
If you're already 6 levels in i'd think very hard about ditching those last few levels to 9, because it's almost never worth it. The ability is just too good.

Extra actions are pretty much the most valuable thing you can get, and getting them undispellable and almost for free every round is incredibly good.
The only thing that matches that is psionic abuse of Synchronicity and Linked Power, and that constantly costs PP and is blocked by AMF/APF.
If you're already 6 levels in i'd think very hard about ditching those last few levels to 9, because it's almost never worth it.

[Masakan]

While pretty much all the class abilities are good Perpetual Options is the Swiftblade's true gem imo.
If you're already 6 levels in i'd think very hard about ditching those last few levels to 9, because it's almost never worth it. The ability is just too good.

Extra actions are pretty much the most valuable thing you can get, and getting them undispellable and almost for free every round is incredibly good.
The only thing that matches that is psionic abuse of Synchronicity and Linked Power, and that constantly costs PP and is blocked by AMF/APF.
If you're already 6 levels in i'd think very hard about ditching those last few levels to 9, because it's almost never worth it.
So basically if im that far in anyway, I might as well go to 9.

[Rebel7284]

Note that bards very easily and naturally can head into Sublime Chord to get way more casting.

Bard 7/Swiftblade 3/Sublime Chord 1/Swiftblade +6/Spelldancer 1/x2 will get you full swiftblade goodies and 8th level spells.

You can also get 9ths if you multiclass wizard and bard correctly, but that stops being a bard build at that point.

[Masakan]

Note that bards very easily and naturally can head into Sublime Chord to get way more casting.

Bard 7/Swiftblade 3/Sublime Chord 1/Swiftblade +6/Spelldancer 1/x2 will get you full swiftblade goodies and 8th level spells.

You can also get 9ths if you multiclass wizard and bard correctly, but that stops being a bard build at that point.
Which is why I wanna avoid going sublime chord if possible because like you said it stops being a bard.
Here's what I have so far
Bard1/Battle Dancer 1/Bard2/Swordsage 1/Bard 4
With the rest either going into swiftblade or something else
Feats would be
1:Dodge
Flaw:TBD(I'm not using a human for this, but a lesser celedrin. So I'm considering Magic in the Blood or Captivating Melody)
3:Mobility
6:Spring Attack(Yes I'm getting this earlier you will see why in a bit)
9:Snapkick
Swiftblade Bonus Feat:Evasive Target(Remember, If you already have Spring attack by the time you reach this point You can use this feat slot for any feat you qualify for. Super Helpful)
I haven't quite decided what feats to get past level 10
Bear in mind, I also want her to be my party face/Infiltrator person. Not every campaign has to be kick down the door and kill everyone ya know? So anything that would bolster Enchantments or Illusions or make her more believable would be welcome.

[Necroticplague]

If you're gonna be a Swordsage, that weighs a bit more heavily towards getting to level 9 so you can use two strikes in one round.

If you're gonna be a face, you probably qualify for Mindbender without much difficulty. A one level dip lets you keep progressing your spellcasting, and opens up Mindsight as an option, which is an excellent feat (as well as allowing your to transcend any language barrier).

[Masakan]

If you're gonna be a Swordsage, that weighs a bit more heavily towards getting to level 9 so you can use two strikes in one round.

If you're gonna be a face, you probably qualify for Mindbender without much difficulty. A one level dip lets you keep progressing your spellcasting, and opens up Mindsight as an option, which is an excellent feat (as well as allowing your to transcend any language barrier).
The only problem with that is that I'm pretty much deadset on the character being chaotic good, Flighty, flirty, passionate, expressive, something of a party girl.
Besides, until she gets Slippers of battledancing, she won't have much for a full attack anyway, this is why getting spring attack and snap kick asap is so important.

[Deadline]

The only problem with that is that I'm pretty much deadset on the character being chaotic good, Flighty, flirty, passionate, expressive, something of a party girl.
Besides, until she gets Slippers of battledancing, she won't have much for a full attack anyway, this is why getting spring attack and snap kick asap is so important.

Is your DM averse to tweaking alignment restrictions for Prestige Classes? Because Mindbender is a solid dip for face-style casters.

[Masakan]

Is your DM averse to tweaking alignment restrictions for Prestige Classes? Because Mindbender is a solid dip for face-style casters.
I have to assume that many DM's are inflexible and like to play things by the book.
Besides, A many of the class features don't seem very "Good" to begin with
And B. She would like to avoid such things and would rather have it so people WANT to cooperate only resorting to the occasional charm person, just to make things go smoother.

[Deadline]

I have to assume that many DM's are inflexible and like to play things by the book.
Besides, A many of the class features don't seem very "Good" to begin with
And B. She would like to avoid such things and would rather have it so people WANT to cooperate only resorting to the occasional charm person, just to make things go smoother.

I'm a bit confused by A, unless you were thinking that I was suggesting more than a 1 level dip. I wasn't. That gets you Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, and Sense Motive as class skills, +2 to Fort and Will, advances casting, and grants Telepathy. That's a whole lot of awesome in a single level. The skills are less important on a bard chassis, but the other benefits are very good (and "Good" :smallwink:).

But fair enough on the inflexible DM thing. Do you not know who your DM is going to be?

Also, I forgot to address this:


Besides, until she gets Slippers of battledancing, she won't have much for a full attack anyway, this is why getting spring attack and snap kick asap is so important.

The reason the 9th level Swiftblade ability is awesome is because it lets you take two standard actions while Hasted. That means you can initiate two strike maneuvers, which will deal a ton more damage than a single strike maneuver + Snap kick. Generally, action economy is hard to come by, and usually hugely useful.

Edit - If you are building off of a Bard chassis anyway and aren't going to the extreme for either combat or casting, you might consider the Evangelist PrC, it gives you a few neat social options, but they all are divine in flavor, which may or may not work with whatever concept you have.

[Masakan]

I'm a bit confused by A, unless you were thinking that I was suggesting more than a 1 level dip. I wasn't. That gets you Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, and Sense Motive as class skills, +2 to Fort and Will, advances casting, and grants Telepathy. That's a whole lot of awesome in a single level. The skills are less important on a bard chassis, but the other benefits are very good (and "Good" :smallwink:).

But fair enough on the inflexible DM thing. Do you not know who your DM is going to be?

Also, I forgot to address this:



The reason the 9th level Swiftblade ability is awesome is because it lets you take two standard actions while Hasted. That means you can initiate two strike maneuvers, which will deal a ton more damage than a single strike maneuver + Snap kick. Generally, action economy is hard to come by, and usually hugely useful.

Edit - If you are building off of a Bard chassis anyway and aren't going to the extreme for either combat or casting, you might consider the Evangelist PrC, it gives you a few neat social options, but they all are divine in flavor, which may or may not work with whatever concept you have.
Nah Nice girl and all but she finds church goers and sermons to be horribly stifling and dull, She's not preachy at all. Also Strikes are kind of useless on my character, she mainly relies on boosts. Stuff like burning blade in combat, and Cloak of deception out of combat.

[martixy]

Hm... sorry to hijack your thread, but what about a gestalt build?

What would be a good progression?
Full casters no longer lose CL and you can enter a level earlier(6 instead of 7 when compared to a normal full caster progression).
Which casting class would be best? Wiz?
And that leaves 5+6 other class levels free(5 before PrCing and the 6 swiftblades that do give +1 casting).

Scout seems a good option. As do the ToB classes. Disciplines?
If you forgo Shadow Hand and Desert Wind, you could do Int-SAD warblade with full-BAB and full spellcasting and Diamond mind as your speed-themed discipline. Or Tiger Claw in TWF build and go crit-fishing with the extra actions.

[Masakan]

Hm... sorry to hijack your thread, but what about a gestalt build?

What would be a good progression?
Full casters no longer lose CL and you can enter a level earlier(6 instead of 7 when compared to a normal full caster progression).
Which casting class would be best? Wiz?
And that leaves 5+6 other class levels free(5 before PrCing and the 6 swiftblades that do give +1 casting).

Scout seems a good option. As do the ToB classes. Disciplines?
If you forgo Shadow Hand and Desert Wind, you could do Int-SAD warblade with full-BAB and full spellcasting and Diamond mind as your speed-themed discipline. Or Tiger Claw in TWF build and go crit-fishing with the extra actions.

Sorry but that just isn't an option, very few people actually allow gestalt and I don't like overfluffing stuff.

[martixy]

Sorry but that just isn't an option, very few people actually allow gestalt and I don't like overfluffing stuff.

I am aware, hence the unsubtle hijack.
I got intrigued on general principle, not with regard to your specific situation.

[DarkSonic1337]

Besides, until she gets Slippers of battledancing, she won't have much for a full attack anyway, this is why getting spring attack and snap kick asap is so important.

Have you clarified with your DM if he's removing the move action requirement on slippers of battledancing?

If not that 9th level of swiftblade will also help those slippers activate. Most people use it for the extra standard action but...it does allow you to take an extra move action, so you can move (as a move action activating the slippers) and full attack.

[Masakan]

Have you clarified with your DM if he's removing the move action requirement on slippers of battledancing?

If not that 9th level of swiftblade will also help those slippers activate. Most people use it for the extra standard action but...it does allow you to take an extra move action, so you can move (as a move action activating the slippers) and full attack.

Oh right i forgot you can do that....not sure I wanna wait until level 18...but considering how strong that is...I guess it's worth it.

[Rebel7284]

Hm... sorry to hijack your thread, but what about a gestalt build?

What would be a good progression?
Full casters no longer lose CL and you can enter a level earlier(6 instead of 7 when compared to a normal full caster progression).
Which casting class would be best? Wiz?
And that leaves 5+6 other class levels free(5 before PrCing and the 6 swiftblades that do give +1 casting).

Scout seems a good option. As do the ToB classes. Disciplines?
If you forgo Shadow Hand and Desert Wind, you could do Int-SAD warblade with full-BAB and full spellcasting and Diamond mind as your speed-themed discipline. Or Tiger Claw in TWF build and go crit-fishing with the extra actions.

Gestalt Swiftblade is one of my favorite builds due to the ridiculousness.

Martial Wizard 5/Swiftblade 1/Spelldancer 1/Swiftblade +8/X 5
//
Factotum 5/Wizard 1/Factotum +3/Wizard +1/Factotum +3/Wizard +1/Y 6

With TWO extra standard actions, Int to everything (and to initiative twice), free metamagic, and some free levels at the end to customize your character, this build is all types of silly good.

edit:
Also, you know, full wizard casting.

I suggest starting another thread if you want to continue discussing this though as it's certainly off topic.