What the Fudge are Allips?

[ThinkMinty]

So, I have the vaguest idea of what an allip is, in that it can fly and drains Wisdom. Past that...no idea what it is. Anyone know what those things are about?

[AvatarVecna]

So, I have the vaguest idea of what an allip is, in that it can fly and drains Wisdom. Past that...no idea what it is. Anyone know what those things are about?

It's a monster from the Core Monster Manual. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/allip.htm)

[Troacctid]

It's an insane ghost formed from the spectral remains of someone driven to suicide by madness. Here's a picture:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/MM35_gallery/MM35_PG10.jpg

[Psyren]

If you're looking for "what is the fluff behind this creature," here are some quotes for you:

MM/SRD: "An allip is the spectral remains of someone driven to suicide by a madness that afflicted it in life. It craves only revenge and unrelentingly pursues those who tormented it in life and pushed it over the brink. An allip cannot speak intelligibly."

PF B3: "Those who fall prey to madness and take their own lives sometimes find themselves lost on the path to the afterlife, trapped in a state between life and death. These unfortunates, known as allips, suffer from the violent and incurable insanity they faced in life and take out their terror, confusion, and rage upon the living. They reach out to those they encounter—possibly in wrath, but also perhaps oblivious to their own insane nature—spreading the psychoses that led to their own untimely deaths."
...
"Allips often seek to harm those who played a part in causing their mad, unholy condition. When faced with such foes, an allip ignores all other targets that confront it in favor of its hated enemies, attacking them until its tormentors have been forced into a vacant stupor. Alas, such vengeance does not put the allip to rest, but simply serves to further fuel its madness as it finds itself trapped in a world now no longer even holding the satisfaction of vengeance."

[VoxRationis]

More importantly, they're the worst nightmare of a low-level party. Better hope your wizard prepared magic missile!

[AvatarVecna]

More importantly, they're the worst nightmare of a low-level party. Better hope your wizard prepared magic missile!

Not to mention the Tarrasque.

[Psyren]

More importantly, they're the worst nightmare of a low-level party. Better hope your wizard prepared magic missile!

I'd rank Shadows a little higher. Allips are slower, and if the party realizes they're outmatched, they can usually run and come back with magic missile, ghost touch weapons or whatnot. Since Shadows drain strength, by the time the party realizes they're in trouble, usually somebody (or more than one somebody) is at heavy encumbrance and can't get away.

[Draconium]

And yet, both types of undead are a fairly low CR... Yeah, that's pretty skewed. Incoporeal undead are a pain to fight at low levels. Luckily, magic missile always manages to show up in my groups. :smalltongue:

[AvatarVecna]

And yet, both types of undead are a fairly low CR... Yeah, that's pretty skewed. Incoporeal undead are a pain to fight at low levels. Luckily, magic missile always manages to show up in my groups. :smalltongue:

You think that's bad, check out That Damn Crab...

[Draconium]

You think that's bad, check out That Damn Crab...

I have, though I've never been in a group so unfortunate that we had to fight one. Thank Pelor.

[sleepyphoenixx]

I'd rank Shadows a little higher. Allips are slower, and if the party realizes they're outmatched, they can usually run and come back with magic missile, ghost touch weapons or whatnot. Since Shadows drain strength, by the time the party realizes they're in trouble, usually somebody (or more than one somebody) is at heavy encumbrance and can't get away.

The problem is that Allips have an AoE Hypnotism effect. A series of unlucky saves can lead to a TPK pretty easily. They also have 1 more HD, so they're harder to turn and have more HP (and they get even more every time they drain wis). Not to mention they inflict wisdom drain, which doesn't heal naturally and can't be healed by Lesser Restoration.

Shadows may be faster and strength damage can lead to the problem you mentioned, but at least it heals naturally and they don't have any AoE disabling effects. They also die faster. On the other hand they create spawn, which can be just as bad or worse if they're in the way of somewhere you need to go.

They're both uncomfortable enemies to face at their CR, but if i had a choice between the two i'd rather take on a Shadow.

[torrasque666]

Not to mention the Tarrasque.

Pathfinder fixed that with the new version.

[AvatarVecna]

Pathfinder fixed that with the new version.

Good. It is and always was stupid that a CR 3 creature could kill the freaking Tarrasque. I know it's a push over optimally-speaking, but it should never be that easy to kill Godzilla.

Well, the Godzilla that was before Pathfinder made kaiju an actual monster series.

[BowStreetRunner]

You think that's bad, check out That Damn Crab...

I had to look around for this one. A lot of the pages I found have broken links. I believe you are referring to this Monstrous Crab (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20040221a). I really enjoyed the rant about it on this page (http://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?p=21046).

[AvatarVecna]

I had to look around for this one. A lot of the pages I found have broken links. I believe you are referring to this Monstrous Crab (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20040221a). I really enjoyed the rant about it on this page (http://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?p=21046).

Yes, That Damn Crab is the monster I was referring to. It's a pure brute enemy that's under CR'd, unlike basically every other brute in existence.

[Draconium]

Yes, That Damn Crab is the monster I was referring to. It's a pure brute enemy that's over CR'd, unlike basically every other brute in existence.

I thought Over-CR's meant the CR was higher than it was supposed it be..? That doesn't sound the TDC to me.

[AvatarVecna]

I thought Over-CR's meant the CR was higher than it was supposed it be..? That doesn't sound the TDC to me.

Under-CR'd, my apologies. I'll go fix it...but yeah, it's ridiculous.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and check out the groupings it comes in: solo, pair, or swarm (6-10).

[Draconium]

Under-CR'd, my apologies. I'll go fix it...

But yeah, it's ridiculous.

Indeed. I wouldn't wish that on any ECL 3 party, barring cheesy optimization tactics.

[EisenKreutzer]

I had to look around for this one. A lot of the pages I found have broken links. I believe you are referring to this Monstrous Crab (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20040221a). I really enjoyed the rant about it on this page (http://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?p=21046).

That... That is something..

[AvatarVecna]

Indeed. I wouldn't wish that on any ECL 3 party, barring cheesy optimization tactics.

There's ways around it without super-cheese, but it requires you to be prepared. Glitterdust is a 2nd level save-or-suck that should affect TDC, blinding it for 3 rounds on a failed Will save.

EDIT: Just checked the Blinded condition. So, on a failed save, TDC is moving at half speed, has a 15 AC, and it has to bypass a 50% miss chance to hit anybody. That lasts for 3 rounds, which should be good enough to kill it before it kills the party. If your wizard doesn't have Glitterdust, though, you better hope he has Expeditious Retreat.

[Draconium]

There's ways around it without super-cheese, but it requires you to be prepared. Glitterdust is a 2nd level save-or-suck that should affect TDC, blinding it for 3 rounds on a failed Will save.

Good point. Most of the members of my IRL group aren't that well-prepared for anything, though, and playing with them has been most of my experience at this point. So allow to to correct my statement: I would not wish this on any ECL 3 group I know.

[AvatarVecna]

Good point. Most of the members of my IRL group aren't that well-prepared for anything, though, and playing with them has been most of my experience at this point. So allow to to correct my statement: I would not wish this on any ECL 3 group I know.

I still wouldn't wish it on anybody else: I've been looking around for several minutes now, and that's the only way I'm seeing for an ECL 3 party to no-sell That Damn Crab. Anybody other than a Wizard with Glitterdust prepared is in for an extremely tough fight at best, and a TPK at worst.

There's probably some non-Core stuff that could do something, but I'm only looking at the SRD right now.

[LudicSavant]

Allips, huh?

The Tale of Isandre Blackmonde
Knowledge (Dungeoneering) DC 15:
The story of Isandre Blackmonde and her adventuring party is a common tale, passed around by dungeoneers of every stripe, though it is unclear how much of it is embellished or simple legend.

Isandre Blackmonde was the humble party healer of a dungeon delving adventuring party. They had been on many adventures together, but one day, they met with great success. Deep in an ancient ruin, they discovered a treasure of incredible value: A Luck Blade with 3 wishes. However, there were 7 of them, and so they could not decide who should choose the wishes, let alone carry the brilliant blade. Fearing that the conflict would risk tearing their friendships apart, Isandre suggested an idea... a tontine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tontine).

"Surely, we should not be hasty with our wishes. After all, have we not all heard the children's tales of men who ended up regretting employing the services of an efreeti? Our wishes should be carefully considered, with the wisdom brought to us by time. And time, too, can resolve our question of ownership... adventurers aren't known for dying of old age. We should make a blood pact of brothers and sisters and seal the blade away. When there are only 3 of us left, the seal will be broken, and we will each take one wish then, and for our wisdom be better off for it."

And so they agreed. Time passed, until one day one of the party members was mysteriously murdered. Suspicions ran high, and each member of the party began to suspect the other. Isandre tried to keep the peace, insisting that surely they were all friends and none would act against each other, but she herself grew paranoid when a drink meant for her ended up poisoning one of her friends. The party split up, and each ended up plotting against the others, or plotting to foil those they suspected of being the killers. The growing paranoia led to inquisitions, misguided revenge, and an attitude of kill or be killed.

The feud between the adventurers carried on for years, and though she had not started the conflict, in the end Isandre and two others were the last ones standing. Unlocking the vault with the keys of the other adventurers, Isandre leapt in first and grabbed the luck blade, using its wishes to slay the other two, screaming oaths of revenge. When the dust settled, Isandre realized that she had only one desire left for her final wish. She wished only for her own death.

Driven mad by the bitterness, rage, grief, betrayal, and paranoia of the party's feud, Isandre rose as an Allip. Overcome by a need for revenge and disillusioned with the notion of Heironeus's righteous judgment, she became obsessed with Jehenna's more primal philosophy of poetic justice. Now, she seeks revenge on all adventurers, believing them to be consumed by nothing more than simple greed, valuing treasure above companions. Her touch is said to imbue one with the sense of depravity that comes from living with all of your friends being secretly out to get you for years.

Now, her tomb is an altar to vengeance, attended by a cult of Jehenna and any that would conspire with the Allip in her endless quest... or unwittingly drawn into her devious games themselves. There, avarice-driven adventurers lured to her domain by the promise of lost treasures of doomed adventurers and the legendary Luck Blade are made into sacrifices for the dark lady of justice, driven to madness and death.

Upon the door to the tomb is an epitaph.


http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs13/f/2007/061/3/f/close_the_door_by_zechic.jpg

Here Lies Isandre Blackmonde
Impoverished by Fortune

[AvatarVecna]

-snip-

Awesome. Truly magnificent story you've got there.

EDIT: Found another Core method of no-selling the crab, but it requires a Druid to be out of the crab's reach: the druid casts Summon Swarm for a Bat Swarm; it can't be damaged by the crab (because Diminutive Swarm), and the crab can't outrun it without going underwater (because the bats fly as fast as the crab crawls).

[sleepyphoenixx]

EDIT: Found another Core method of no-selling the crab, but it requires a Druid to be out of the crab's reach: the druid casts Summon Swarm for a Bat Swarm; it can't be damaged by the crab (because Diminutive Swarm), and the crab can't outrun it without going underwater (because the bats fly as fast as the crab crawls).

Most BFC methods work on the thing, as long as they don't target fortitude or are mind-affecting.
The problem is that by its nature the crab will probably come charging at the party from ambush. By the time they can act chances are one of them is already dead.

But let's say you hit with Glitterdust or another BFC before that. Now you have to burn down its 66hp before your spell runs out, probably without getting into melee because a lucky hit is all it takes to kill you.
That's a tough order for a normal 4 man group of ECL 3 characters, because chances are they're still doing single digit damage at that level, with only a single attack per round.

[AvatarVecna]

Most BFC methods work on the thing, as long as they don't target fortitude or are mind-affecting.
The problem is that by its nature the crab will probably come charging at the party from ambush. By the time they can act chances are one of them is already dead.

But let's say you hit with Glitterdust or another BFC before that. Now you have to burn down its 66hp before your spell runs out, probably without getting into melee because a lucky hit is all it takes to kill you.
That's a tough order for a normal 4 man group of ECL 3 characters, because chances are they're still doing single digit damage at that level, with only a single attack per round.

Yeah, if the crab catches the party by surprise, it's likely TPK for the party anyway. Glitterdust has a pretty good range, though, and Summon Swarm is also decent at that. It doesn't turn the Crab into a pushover by any means, but it turns a brutal overpowering fight into merely a challenging one.

[Troacctid]

I had to look around for this one. A lot of the pages I found have broken links. I believe you are referring to this Monstrous Crab (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20040221a). I really enjoyed the rant about it on this page (http://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?p=21046).

The stats at that link are out of date since the monster was updated in Stormwrack. Large Monstrous Crabs are now CR 4 with 36 HP.

[Bucky]

Ok, there's some chance a level 3 party can handle it. But CR3 implies it's also appropriate as a miniboss against level 2 party.

[Inevitability]

Allips, huh?

The Tale of Isandre Blackmonde
Knowledge (Dungeoneering) DC 15:
The story of Isandre Blackmonde and her adventuring party is a common tale, passed around by dungeoneers of every stripe, though it is unclear how much of it is embellished or simple legend.

Isandre Blackmonde was the humble party healer of a dungeon delving adventuring party. They had been on many adventures together, but one day, they met with great success. Deep in an ancient ruin, they discovered a treasure of incredible value: A Luck Blade with 3 wishes. However, there were 7 of them, and so they could not decide who should choose the wishes, let alone carry the brilliant blade. Fearing that the conflict would risk tearing their friendships apart, Isandre suggested an idea... a tontine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tontine).

"Surely, we should not be hasty with our wishes. After all, have we not all heard the children's tales of men who ended up regretting employing the services of an efreeti? Our wishes should be carefully considered, with the wisdom brought to us by time. And time, too, can resolve our question of ownership... adventurers aren't known for dying of old age. We should make a blood pact of brothers and sisters and seal the blade away. When there are only 3 of us left, the seal will be broken, and we will each take one wish then, and for our wisdom be better off for it."

And so they agreed. Time passed, until one day one of the party members was mysteriously murdered. Suspicions ran high, and each member of the party began to suspect the other. Isandre tried to keep the peace, insisting that surely they were all friends and none would act against each other, but she herself grew paranoid when a drink meant for her ended up poisoning one of her friends. The party split up, and each ended up plotting against the others, or plotting to foil those they suspected of being the killers. The growing paranoia led to inquisitions, misguided revenge, and an attitude of kill or be killed.

The feud between the adventurers carried on for years, and though she had not started the conflict, in the end Isandre and two others were the last ones standing. Unlocking the vault with the keys of the other adventurers, Isandre leapt in first and grabbed the luck blade, using its wishes to slay the other two, screaming oaths of revenge. When the dust settled, Isandre realized that she had only one desire left for her final wish. She wished only for her own death.

Driven mad by the bitterness, rage, grief, betrayal, and paranoia of the party's feud, Isandre rose as an Allip. Overcome by a need for revenge and disillusioned with the notion of Heironeus's righteous judgment, she became obsessed with Jehenna's more primal philosophy of poetic justice. Now, she seeks revenge on all adventurers, believing them to be consumed by nothing more than simple greed, valuing treasure above companions. Her touch is said to imbue one with the sense of depravity that comes from living with all of your friends being secretly out to get you for years.

Now, her tomb is an altar to vengeance, attended by a cult of Jehenna and any that would conspire with the Allip in her endless quest... or unwittingly drawn into her devious games themselves. There, avarice-driven adventurers lured to her domain by the promise of lost treasures of doomed adventurers and the legendary Luck Blade are made into sacrifices for the dark lady of justice, driven to madness and death.

Upon the door to the tomb is an epitaph.


http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs13/f/2007/061/3/f/close_the_door_by_zechic.jpg

Here Lies Isandre Blackmonde
Impoverished by Fortune

I remember that one! Still sad that game died.

[Psyren]

Ok, there's some chance a level 3 party can handle it. But CR3 implies it's also appropriate as a miniboss against level 2 party.

A level 2 party can handle it - you just need Pro Evil and Magic Weapon. I do prefer the toned down PF version though.

[Chromascope3D]

Yes, That Damn Crab is the monster I was referring to. It's a pure brute enemy that's under CR'd, unlike basically every other brute in existence.

Well obviously you just need to flip it on its back and attack its weak point for massive damage...

[LudicSavant]

I remember that one! Still sad that game died.

Yeah. Oh well, I may have not gotten to use that dungeon for that campaign, but I can always use it for something else. :smallsmile:

For those who have no idea what we're talking about: I originally designed the Tomb of Isandre Blackmonde for a "dungeon-building" game where multiple DMs would create dungeons for players to explore, using a set of rules and restrictions given by the over-DM (sort of a "point-buy" for dungeon-building). The Tomb was going to be my first entry as a DM, but the group broke up before I ran it for unrelated reasons.

[danzibr]

Not to mention the Tarrasque.
Haha, ha... I read that as low level parties fearing the Tarrasque as well allips, not the Tarrasque as well as low level parties fearing allips.

[AvatarVecna]

Haha, ha... I read that as low level parties fearing the Tarrasque as well allips, not the Tarrasque as well as low level parties fearing allips.

Eh, it works both ways, and it's still funny. Although whether a low-level party has to worry about the tarrasque depends on whether Madness is a member of the group...

[Bucky]

A level 2 party can handle it - you just need Pro Evil and Magic Weapon. I do prefer the toned down PF version though.

That works against the Allip, but not the Crab.

[Starbuck_II]

There's ways around it without super-cheese, but it requires you to be prepared. Glitterdust is a 2nd level save-or-suck that should affect TDC, blinding it for 3 rounds on a failed Will save.

EDIT: Just checked the Blinded condition. So, on a failed save, TDC is moving at half speed, has a 15 AC, and it has to bypass a 50% miss chance to hit anybody. That lasts for 3 rounds, which should be good enough to kill it before it kills the party. If your wizard doesn't have Glitterdust, though, you better hope he has Expeditious Retreat.

Remember what its combat tactics are: Grab someone, walk into water to kill prey, eat, maybe repeat if still hungry.

So you have 1 or 2 rounds before it is underwater ands has total cover.

[ThinkMinty]

You think that's bad, check out That Damn Crab...

Yikes.

However, I did find a stratagem for affordable, reliable crabslaying.

Win initiative, ready an action, then cast Grease1 when it's charging at you. It's got a bunch of spindly legs, it's gonna fall on its ass. Now its superior movement is gone.

Now your party chucks lit matches or torches at it 'til it's on fire and screaming for its overbearing mother in impotent fear. Then you can pick it off while the searing flames and slippery grease keep it from retaliating. Bam! You just got experience points, a prolonged adventuring career, and a fresh-cooked seafood dinner.

---
1: It's Grease, you're in a low-level party. You have access to it.

[TheifofZ]

Yikes.

However, I did find a stratagem for affordable, reliable crabslaying.

Win initiative, ready an action, then cast Grease1 when it's charging at you. It's got a bunch of spindly legs, it's gonna fall on its ass. Now its superior movement is gone.

Now your party chucks lit matches or torches at it 'til it's on fire and screaming for its overbearing mother in impotent fear. Then you can pick it off while the searing flames and slippery grease keep it from retaliating. Bam! You just got experience points, a prolonged adventuring career, and a fresh-cooked seafood dinner.

---
1: It's Grease, you're in a low-level party. You have access to it.
Problems with this:
1: You assume you see it coming and manage to win initiative as a level 3 caster. It has +27 Hide and +14 Initiative. Your plan requires going first, which you really won't, against this. You don't see it until it's charging you, and even if you do see it at the same time as it's getting up to charge, it will go first.
2: It has a whopping +23 Reflex save; it has a 5% chance to go a tumbling, and a 95% chance to slide over the grease like it's on ice-skates.
3: Mindless vermin: Immune to fear.
4: It's large size. It has reach. Even if it does somehow end up staying prone the entire time, it can reach out and choke the fighter to death without effort. That 1d8+9 damage if it grapples you is bad news.

[Platymus Pus]

An allips are those three dots people respond with to show silence. for example. "..."

[TheifofZ]

An allips are those three dots people respond with to show silence. for example. "..."

You'll find, I think, that what you are thinking of is an ellipse.
An Allip is basically Wisdom damage on wheels for a low level party, especially if the wizard doesn't have Magic Missile.

Undead, Ethereal, AoE confusion the first time its in hearing range, and wisdom damage on touch.
Those are a good sign the DM hates the party, too.

[VoxRationis]

Those are a good sign the DM hates the party, too.

Well, they might just be an inexperienced DM who goes by the listed CR without giving a thought to the monster's abilities until the time comes for initiative. And I think all DMs have had that encounter that accidentally turned lethal.

[TheifofZ]

Balancing encounters perfectly requires knowing everything about the PCs, the terrain, and the monsters.
And also requires getting the magical perfectly average rolls.

Once I ended up killing a PC in level 3 party with 4 normal rats in a wheat field. The rats were spread out randomly, and the encounter was mostly a joke encounter at that.

But after 3 20s from one rat on a single bite, plus several more non-critical 20s, and the longest string of 1s for missed attacks from a PC I have ever seen, and then 3 failed heal checks...
Ever since then, that player has had a running joke of getting attacked by rats. Even at level 15.

[nyjastul69]

Yikes.

However, I did find a stratagem for affordable, reliable crabslaying.

Win initiative, ready an action, then cast Grease1 when it's charging at you. It's got a bunch of spindly legs, it's gonna fall on its ass. Now its superior movement is gone.

Now your party chucks lit matches or torches at it 'til it's on fire and screaming for its overbearing mother in impotent fear. Then you can pick it off while the searing flames and slippery grease keep it from retaliating. Bam! You just got experience points, a prolonged adventuring career, and a fresh-cooked seafood dinner.

---
1: It's Grease, you're in a low-level party. You have access to it.

How does a grease spell become ignited?

[TheifofZ]

How does a grease spell become ignited?

I completely forgot this reason that his plan was terrible, too. Thanks for pointing that one out.

Although I know there was a version of Grease that was a level higher, and was flammable.
Can't recall what the exact name was, though.

[ThinkMinty]

Problems with this:
1: You assume you see it coming and manage to win initiative as a level 3 caster. It has +27 Hide and +14 Initiative. Your plan requires going first, which you really won't, against this. You don't see it until it's charging you, and even if you do see it at the same time as it's getting up to charge, it will go first.
2: It has a whopping +23 Reflex save; it has a 5% chance to go a tumbling, and a 95% chance to slide over the grease like it's on ice-skates.
3: Mindless vermin: Immune to fear.
4: It's large size. It has reach. Even if it does somehow end up staying prone the entire time, it can reach out and choke the fighter to death without effort. That 1d8+9 damage if it grapples you is bad news.

1 & 2. Where are those saves coming from? It doesn't even have a bonus to Initiative at all in Stormwrack, and 's only +2 in the web supplement. And yeah, where is that +23 coming from?
3. I figured that was more of a thing where you can't use magic fear effects, but it'd feel fear if it had coulrophobia and you tried showing it clown porn. Still, I guess that was more rhetorical than it actually being afraid. Smack-talking the crab.
4. I admit I forgot about the reach.

So, is there a plan for killing that crab within level-appropriate parameters, or do you try to outrun the Dwarf while penning a note to his next of kin in your mind?

[Inevitability]

So, is there a plan for killing that crab within level-appropriate parameters, or do you try to outrun the Dwarf while penning a note to his next of kin in your mind?

Casting Levitate on as many people as possible (you+archer, that is) and hoping the two of you can shoot the damn thing to crab hell before the three minutes are up? The crab is mindless, it should have trouble figuring out what is going on.

[sleepyphoenixx]

So, is there a plan for killing that crab within level-appropriate parameters, or do you try to outrun the Dwarf while penning a note to his next of kin in your mind?

Entangle works, if you win initiative and aren't surprised. Since you have spot as a class skill and high wis chances are good. It also lasts long enough to actually kill it, unlike most BFC spells with 1 round/level duration.
Spore Field can also work to block its charge and give the rest of your party time to react, as can Sticky Floor, but they won't be much good beyond giving you a chance to run.
A druid with Child of Winter can treat it as an animal with Int 2, so it can be charmed, calmed, etc. but nobody takes that feat so it's all theoretical.

It's not like it's impossible to kill the thing with the right spells. The problem is that most lower level wizard BFC spells that are regularly prepared are either mind-affecting (Sleep, Color Spray), target fortitude (Wall of Smoke) and/or only last 1 round/level (Grease, Glitterdust) which isn't enough for a normal group to burn down 66hp.

The Crab is more of a random encounter enemy than a boss monster, so chances are you won't be specially prepared for it - meaning you probably have your "standard" spell loadout, most of which won't work on the thing.
So your wizard is likely useless and your melee will die as soon as they get in range of those pincers. Every round on its turn the Crab grabs one of your PC's which will more likely than not mean he's dead, and it's faster than you and has reach so you can't really outrun it.
Druids actually have the best chance since they've probably prepared Entangle anyway. If nothing else they can sacrifice their animal companion as a meatshield and run away.

Add all that together (immune or resistant to most common BFCs, incredibly tough, high damage with low chances of evading it) and you have a monster that is vastly more dangerous than its CR indicates.

[danzibr]

An allips are those three dots people respond with to show silence. for example. "..."
Haha, nice.

You'll find, I think, that what you are thinking of is an ellipse.
An Allip is basically Wisdom damage on wheels for a low level party, especially if the wizard doesn't have Magic Missile.
...

[BowStreetRunner]

So, I have the vaguest idea of what an allip is, in that it can fly and drains Wisdom. Past that...no idea what it is. Anyone know what those things are about?

I'd rank Shadows a little higher. Allips are slower, and if the party realizes they're outmatched, they can usually run and come back with magic missile, ghost touch weapons or whatnot. Since Shadows drain strength, by the time the party realizes they're in trouble, usually somebody (or more than one somebody) is at heavy encumbrance and can't get away.

You think that's bad, check out That Damn Crab...
I now have the introductory encounter for my next low-level campaign. An Allip (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/allip.htm), A Shadow (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/shadow.htm), and a Monstrous Crab (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20040221a) walk into a tavern... :smallbiggrin:

[Draconium]

I now have the introductory encounter for my next low-level campaign. An Allip (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/allip.htm), A Shadow (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/shadow.htm), and a Monstrous Crab (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20040221a) walk into a tavern... :smallbiggrin:

And everyone dies. The End! :smalltongue: Well, everyone below about level 5, anyways.

[nyjastul69]

I now have the introductory encounter for my next low-level campaign. An Allip (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/allip.htm), A Shadow (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/shadow.htm), and a Monstrous Crab (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20040221a) walk into a tavern... :smallbiggrin:

That's the team of adventurer's correct? ;) Sounds like a solid party.

[Inevitability]

That's the team of adventurer's correct? ;) Sounds like a solid party.

Yeah... I can already see how that is going to go wrong.

Shadow: I told you to pick up the damn loot a thousand times now! Why does our only corporeal ally have to be mindless too?
Crab: *tries to hit shadow with claws*
Shadow: Yeah, you have claws, I get it. If only you'd learn they have no effect on me. Allip, any idea on how to make him carry the loot back to town?
Allip: Garble, gargle, mutter, scream, generic insane sounds, gibber, groan!
Shadow: You are not helping.

[nyjastul69]

Yeah... I can already see how that is going to go wrong.

Shadow: I told you to pick up the damn loot a thousand times now! Why does our only corporeal ally have to be mindless too?
Crab: *tries to hit shadow with claws*
Shadow: Yeah, you have claws, I get it. If only you'd learn they have no effect on me. Allip, any idea on how to make him carry the loot back to town?
Allip: Garble, gargle, mutter, scream, generic insane sounds, gibber, groan!
Shadow: You are not helping.

Wrong!?! That campaign writes itself! Lol

[AvatarVecna]

Yeah... I can already see how that is going to go wrong.

Shadow: I told you to pick up the damn loot a thousand times now! Why does our only corporeal ally have to be mindless too?
Crab: *tries to hit shadow with claws*
Shadow: Yeah, you have claws, I get it. If only you'd learn they have no effect on me. Allip, any idea on how to make him carry the loot back to town?
Allip: Garble, gargle, mutter, scream, generic insane sounds, gibber, groan!
Shadow: You are not helping.

My only regret is that you couldn't somehow write it where the One Sane Man was the Allip, rather than the Shadow. Wait, are Shadows intelligent undead? If not, the Allip is the One Sane Man of the party! :smallbiggrin:

[nyjastul69]

My only regret is that you couldn't somehow write it where the One Sane Man was the Allip, rather than the Shadow. Wait, are Shadows intelligent undead? If not, the Allip is the One Sane Man of the party! :smallbiggrin:

Shadow Int=6, allip Int=11. The allip is the braniac of the party. ;)

[ThinkMinty]

My only regret is that you couldn't somehow write it where the One Sane Man was the Allip, rather than the Shadow. Wait, are Shadows intelligent undead? If not, the Allip is the One Sane Man of the party! :smallbiggrin:

The Allip is the only one with an Int above ten, so the Shadow's going to have a more childish, playful demeanor. So...yeah, the Allip is the only lucid one, because the Crab is dumb muscle and the Shadow is underdeveloped. Sanity...well, probably, since it's stealing sanity from everyone else.

Thinking about it, that party is pretty potent, because the Shadow and the Allip can soften up foes for the Crab to bisect.

[olelia]

1 & 2. Where are those saves coming from? It doesn't even have a bonus to Initiative at all in Stormwrack, and 's only +2 in the web supplement. And yeah, where is that +23 coming from?
3. I figured that was more of a thing where you can't use magic fear effects, but it'd feel fear if it had coulrophobia and you tried showing it clown porn. Still, I guess that was more rhetorical than it actually being afraid. Smack-talking the crab.
4. I admit I forgot about the reach.

So, is there a plan for killing that crab within level-appropriate parameters, or do you try to outrun the Dwarf while penning a note to his next of kin in your mind?

From the Razoreel Swarm directly underneath its entry.

[thorr-kan]

Yeah... I can already see how that is going to go wrong.

Shadow: I told you to pick up the damn loot a thousand times now! Why does our only corporeal ally have to be mindless too?
Crab: *tries to hit shadow with claws*
Shadow: Yeah, you have claws, I get it. If only you'd learn they have no effect on me. Allip, any idea on how to make him carry the loot back to town?
Allip: Garble, gargle, mutter, scream, generic insane sounds, gibber, groan!
Shadow: You are not helping.
I...think I've played with those characters.

Alcohol may have been involved.

[Draconium]

I...think I've played with those characters.

Alcohol may have been involved.

That doesn't surprise me in the least.

I haven't played with those characters, but I have played with similar ones. A running joke with my friend (and fellow DM) is that our campaigns often start off like a bad joke.

"So, a Goliath, a Mummy, and an Elf walk into the tavern..."

"So, a Dragon, a Werewolf, and a Gnome walk into a bar..."

Those kinds of things, you know?

[thorr-kan]

An allips are those three dots people respond with to show silence. for example. "..."
"I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want...But what I do have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you...I will look for you, I will find you, and then I will pun you." - Spider Robinson.

(Yes, I'm mutilating Taken. Sue me. Platymus Pus, this pun caused screams of pain that I believe could be heard in the ISS. Well played, sir. Well played.)

[AvatarVecna]

I...think I've played with those characters.

Alcohol may have been involved.

One character mindlessly obsessed with violence, another player spouting random nonsense at all times, and the one sane man trying to hold the party together long enough to complete a quest? I think everyone's played with characters like those...or at least players like those. :smallamused:

[Starbuck_II]

Yeah... I can already see how that is going to go wrong.

Shadow: I told you to pick up the damn loot a thousand times now! Why does our only corporeal ally have to be mindless too?
Crab: *tries to hit shadow with claws*
Shadow: Yeah, you have claws, I get it. If only you'd learn they have no effect on me. Allip, any idea on how to make him carry the loot back to town?
Allip: Garble, gargle, mutter, scream, generic insane sounds, gibber, groan!
Shadow: You are not helping.

Allips basically the Joker from Batman, only less evil.
Really is best team since his insanity can't effect Shadow or Crab.

[Platymus Pus]

"I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want...But what I do have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you...I will look for you, I will find you, and then I will pun you." - Spider Robinson.

(Yes, I'm mutilating Taken. Sue me. Platymus Pus, this pun caused screams of pain that I believe could be heard in the ISS. Well played, sir. Well played.)

Take 5d6 san dmg.
Glad someone liked it :smalltongue:

[thorr-kan]

Take 5d6 san dmg.
Glad someone liked it :smalltongue:
I dinnae say I liked it, lad. I said it was well done.

(I liked it. Wish I'd thought of it.)