Fighter Dual-wielding Sawtooth Sabers

[DedWards]

My character in our current Pathfinder campaign met a gruesome death and as our party is already gold starved (a rant for another day), I opted to play a new character instead of being revived. Initially, I was going to play my normal Fighter build (highest AC and HP I can get), but after some thought, I decided to play something slightly different. After looking around on the interwebs, I found that the exotic weapon Sawtooth Saber has a rule that allows count as a light weapon for sake of the TWF rules, and my choice was made.

I'm here to as if this idea is good and / or if there's something I missed / shouldn not have taken.

Abilities at lv5:
STR 18+2 (20) +5
DEX 16+1 (17) +3
CON 14 +2
INT 7 -2
WIS 11 +0
CHA 7 -2
+2 STR for being human
+1 DEX from level 4's advancement. Some Feats require 17 DEX.

Favoured Class bonus is going into HP

Feats at lv5 (no particular order):
Quick Draw
Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Sawtooth Saber
Two-Weapon Fighting
Double Slice
Power Attack*
Dodge
Weapon Focus: Sawtooth Saber

*Even with Double Slice, I still only add half of Power Attack's damage bonus to my off hand.

Future Feats:
Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (level 6 or 7)
Weapon Specialisation: Sawtooth Saber (level 6 or 7)
Two-Weapon Rend (level 11)

Class Abilities :
Weapon Training: Blades, Heavy. Had this as Blades, Light, but Iceheart2112 informs me that Sawtooth Sabers should fall in the Blades, Heavy category.

Starting Gold:
I managed to convince the GM to let me start with the amount specified on the Character Wealth by Level chart. Lv5 = 10 500 gold.
So, subtracting my armour and weapons:
MW Full Plate: 1 650g
2x MW Sawtooth Sabers: 670g (335g each)
MW Composite Longbow (+5 STR): 900g
20 Arrows 1g
I'm left with 7 279g for everything else (potions, magic items, enchantments, etc).

Thinking of saving up for Mithril Full Plate, but all I'll get out of it is 1 more AC from DEX (Armor Training is already helping here) and a reduction on the check penalty (again, Armor Training is helping here). Not sure that's worth +9 000g.

[Iceheart2112]

Quick note: Sawtooth Sabres are under the Heavy Blades group (found it in Ultimate Equipment).

[DedWards]

Quick note: Sawtooth Sabres are under the Heavy Blades group (found it in Ultimate Equipment).

Thanks, will edit it now.

[DedWards]

Haven't quite stated playing with this character yet, it's first session will be on Saturday. This in mind, I'm thinking of dropping the stupidly expensive MW Composite Longbow (+5 STR) and putting that 900g towards my first sword enchantment. Thoughs?

[Nibbens]

Haven't quite stated playing with this character yet, it's first session will be on Saturday. This in mind, I'm thinking of dropping the stupidly expensive MW Composite Longbow (+5 STR) and putting that 900g towards my first sword enchantment. Thoughs?

Yes. drop the expensive Longbow and that gives you 8K to work with. Two +1 swords (4k), and a +2 armor (4k) will top you out.

Or - if the jump from masterwork to +1 is too costly for you (besides, the +1 to hit is already there in the "masterwork") this would leave you with 4K. Ring of protection is +1 for 2K, and amulet of natural armor would give you an additional +1 to ac for an additional 2K

So, your 8K could go to an additional +4AC if you forwent the extra point of damage per sword. besides, your bonus to hit won't change from masterwork to a +1 weapon. So you maintain near optimal output damage and crank your ac higher - which is what you originally wanted anyway.

[SangoProduction]

lol. When google searching the images for Sawtooth Sabers, this forum comes up....lol.

[DedWards]

Yes. drop the expensive Longbow and that gives you 8K to work with. Two +1 swords (4k), and a +2 armor (4k) will top you out.

Or - if the jump from masterwork to +1 is too costly for you (besides, the +1 to hit is already there in the "masterwork") this would leave you with 4K. Ring of protection is +1 for 2K, and amulet of natural armor would give you an additional +1 to ac for an additional 2K

So, your 8K could go to an additional +4AC if you forwent the extra point of damage per sword. besides, your bonus to hit won't change from masterwork to a +1 weapon. So you maintain near optimal output damage and crank your ac higher - which is what you originally wanted anyway.

My DM informs me that there will be a number of flying enemies (mostly Angels as we're playing LE characters), So I'm wondering if I should keep the MW Composite Longbow (+5 STR) or drop it down to just a MW Composite Longbow (without any STR bonus). Dropping this saves me 500g.

I decided to get a Ring of Protection +1; Amulet of Natural Armor +1; and Cloak of Resistance +1. This leaves me with +- 2 779g

I still need to get other items like potions, etc.

On another note, I'm hoping to loot a Great Sword. I have Weapon Training in Blades, Heavy and the Quick Draw Feat, so I was thinking it could help get past dome DR as you add 1 + 1/2 your STR and Power Attack bonuses when wielding a single weapon in two hands. That's 2d6+14 (5+2 from STR; 4+2 from Power Attack; and 1 from Weapon Training) at +9 to hit (5 from STR; 5 from BAB; and -2 from Power Attack).


lol. When google searching the images for Sawtooth Sabers, this forum comes up....lol.

LOL, what Image came up that brought you here?

[grarrrg]

No archetype? Just straight Fighter?


Quick note: Sawtooth Sabres are under the Heavy Blades group (found it in Ultimate Equipment).

There seems to be...issues with the Sawtooth and what Weapon Group they should be in.
d20pfsrd puts it only in the Light Blades (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter) group.
The Archives of Nethys (http://www.archivesofnethys.com/FighterWeapons.aspx) are a little more helpful. They have it listed in both groups, BUT the listing under "Heavy Blades" is 'as-is', while the "Light Blades" listing is asterisked as such:

Additional weapon groupings have been taken from Humans of Golarion. These have been marked with an *, as they are not currently marked legal for Pathfinder Society play.

Check with your DM and make him decide what weapon group they are counted as. And some weapons DO qualify for more than one group, so if he say "either/both" than it doesn't much matter which you pick.

[AvatarVecna]

"Fighter Dual-wielding Sabertoothed Tigers"

*double-take*

The real subject matter is a lot less exciting. :smallsigh:

[grarrrg]

"Fighter Dual-wielding Sabertoothed Tigers"

Yes. Forget all that other nonsense, do this instead.

[torrasque666]

Yes. Forget all that other nonsense, do this instead.
When did I stumble into Dwarf Fortress?

[Dissonance]

Back on topic...

You may want to look into the Red Mantis faction and the feats associated with them. Their fighting style is exactly what you are doing, and they have plenty of feats that specifically work with dual wielding sawtooth sabers.

They even have a prestige class. Which is pretty cool.

[DedWards]

No archetype? Just straight Fighter?
Yes, Straight Fighter. A lot of Fighter archetypes, including the Two-Weapon Fighting archetype, lose Armor Training in favour of a different effect and I want to keep it.

There seems to be...issues with the Sawtooth and what Weapon Group they should be in.
d20pfsrd puts it only in the Light Blades (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter) group.
The Archives of Nethys (http://www.archivesofnethys.com/FighterWeapons.aspx) are a little more helpful. They have it listed in both groups, BUT the listing under "Heavy Blades" is 'as-is', while the "Light Blades" listing is asterisked as such:


Check with your DM and make him decide what weapon group they are counted as. And some weapons DO qualify for more than one group, so if he say "either/both" than it doesn't much matter which you pick.

I looked it up and the Ultimate Equipment book has Sawtooth Saber under Bladed, Heavy (page 47); plus my GM doesn't seem to have a problem with it as it is like such in the book. I did have to waste a feat to use the Sawtooth Saber in my off hand 'as if it where a light weapon':
"... if you have the feat Exotic Weapon Proficiency (sawtoothed sabre), you treat the weapon as if it were a light weapon for the purpose of two-weapon fighting—the sabre remains classified as a one-handed melee weapon for all other purposes."


"Fighter Dual-wielding Sabertoothed Tigers"

*double-take*

The real subject matter is a lot less exciting. :smallsigh:

ROFL! This made me laugh so hard. I may just ask some artist to draw an image of a fighter swinging Sabertoothed Tigers by the tail :p

[AvatarVecna]

Yes. Forget all that other nonsense, do this instead.

I found a way! Although it's more Barbarian than Fighter...

There's a level 10 Rage Power called Body Bludgeon: if you pin a target smaller than yourself, you can wield two-handed wield them; it's a small stretch to assume that you can one-handed wield pinned targets two sizes smaller than you. At that point, when you attack somebody with your "weapon", both the target and the weapon take damage. I don't know how you'd get two sizes bigger than a saber-toothed tiger...or how you'd keep them useful at the level you can get Body Bludgeon...or how you'd enchant them. But it can be done!

And it's almost as cool as the idea presented in one of the PF Barbarian Optimization Guides: Gnome-chucks.

[DedWards]

Back on topic...

You may want to look into the Red Mantis faction and the feats associated with them. Their fighting style is exactly what you are doing, and they have plenty of feats that specifically work with dual wielding sawtooth sabers.

They even have a prestige class. Which is pretty cool.

Forgot about them. I'll probably only use them for reference on feat selection, as soon as I find a website with their abilities that my cell will load properly. I'm not sure my GM will all a full on Red Mantis, we are supposed to be under cover a lot of the time.

[DedWards]

I don't know how you'd get two sizes bigger than a saber-toothed tiger...

Effects like Enlarge Person (potions and / or ally casters) comes to mind. But, ya, because the effect specifically states "two-handed", I highly doubt a GM would allow "two-weapon" as that's kind of pushing it.

[AvatarVecna]

Effects like Enlarge Person (potions and / or ally casters) comes to mind. But, ya, because the effect specifically states "two-handed", I highly doubt a GM would allow "two-weapon" as that's kind of pushing it.

I imagine the tigers are Large, which means that, even if your DM allows one-handing something two sizes smaller than you, getting Gargantuan is no easy task; if nothing else, size increasing effects rarely stack.

[DedWards]

I imagine the tigers are Large, which means that, even if your DM allows one-handing something two sizes smaller than you, getting Gargantuan is no easy task; if nothing else, size increasing effects rarely stack.

I'm not that well versed in magic (mostly play martial classes), but with there being a spell to enlarge person, wouldn't there be one that shrinks a target by one category?

[AvatarVecna]

I'm not that well versed in magic (mostly play martial classes), but with there being a spell to enlarge person, wouldn't there be one that shrinks a target by one category?

Reduce Person is humanoid-only, last I checked. Reduce Animal is a thing, but it requires a willing target. I guess it could be done, if a Large Barbarian was further enlarged and the tigers were reduced by a wizard while being placated by a druid, but this is getting pretty convoluted.

[SangoProduction]

The specific image that points to this thread is a picture of a zombie (the OP's icon).