Bonus feat for lower point buy?

[peacenlove]

Hallo community!

When I DM, I usualy go with 25 or even 30 point buy for my player's character generation, because I somewhat optimize my encounters.

Since there are so many feats present in PF (and I usually import 3.5 feats as well), I was thinking of granting my players a choice. Either go with the full point buy, or select any feat eligible for players of 1st level but at a reduced point buy.

How much of a penalty, if any, do you believe is right, in exchange for a feat?

[Fouredged Sword]

I would say that 5 points is worth a feat. That said, this benifits casters more than anyone else as they have more powerful feats and less use of high point buys.

To balance this, I would give out an extra feat for each tier lower than one they play (1 feat for tier 2, 2 for 3, 3 for 4, and 4 for 5.)

Yes, you can have some people starting with tons of feats, but really, is that a bad thing?

[Psyren]

I would say that 5 points is worth a feat. That said, this benifits casters more than anyone else as they have more powerful feats and less use of high point buys.

To balance this, I would give out an extra feat for each tier lower than one they play (1 feat for tier 2, 2 for 3, 3 for 4, and 4 for 5.)

Yes, you can have some people starting with tons of feats, but really, is that a bad thing?

I support this but would only start giving extra bonus feats below T3.

[Vhaidara]

I support this but would only start giving extra bonus feats below T3.

What, are you saying t3 martials don't have to deal with annoying amounts of feat tax?

[Fouredged Sword]

I support this but would only start giving extra bonus feats below T3.

I don't disagree. It all depends on the power level of game you intend to run VS the optimisation level of your players. Some groups you give them horrid point buy and they still roflestomp your encounters. In another you can give them all the feats and a 40 point buy and have them killed by RHD goblins.

[OldTrees1]

When doing a level X comparison between a character that did take the deal and one that did not, generally the feat gained would be a feat tax (even if it was not a feat tax selected at 1st). So maybe 2 points (the cost to upgrade a dump stat)?

[peacenlove]

Will go with a mix of opinions then and do one feat up to and until T3, 2 feats at T4 3 feats at T5 for 5 points.
T5? which classes are T5 in PF? And more importantly, are they bumped up a tier via an archetype?

Thank you for your input so far!

[Psyren]

T5? which classes are T5 in PF? And more importantly, are they bumped up a tier via an archetype?


Core Monk, Core Fighter, and base Gunslinger are T5; yes, archetypes help.

There are some classes where the wrong archetype can knock them down a tier too.

[Zanos]

Core Monk, Core Fighter, and base Gunslinger are T5; yes, archetypes help.

There are some classes where the wrong archetype can knock them down a tier too.

What, the ability to make some traps with a crappy duration isn't worth all your casting?

#TrapperRangerForLife

[Pex]

This will favor SAD classes. Perhaps instead, favor any class that can dump CH and/or ST and not suffer in their functionality. DX is hard to dump because of AC and initiative. CO can't be dumped due to hit points. IN is important for skill points. Almost no one would dump WI because will saves are too important. CH is easy to dump because they don't need to be the party face. Skill ranks add up over time to compensate if necessary. ST is dumped by non-warriors and DX warriors. For those classes who have the easy dump stats, getting the extra feat is practically a no-brainer. For others, it becomes a hard choice. That's not a bad thing. A hard choice implies a balance to the options. What makes it a bit unfair is the other classes having it so easy.

Colloquially speaking, paladins are screwed. Warrior-type clerics and oracles may choose to go spellcaster-type instead if they want the feat. It's also possible I'm being too focused on optimization, biased in my own thinking on these classes. Your concept is not a terrible option. 5 points is a good cost but only allow it once. One feat total for 5 points less in point buy. I have been known to dump IN myself, so depending on my mood I might take the option even if playing a paladin.

[Psyren]

What, the ability to make some traps with a crappy duration isn't worth all your casting?

#TrapperRangerForLife

Trapper isn't bad actually, there are some nice ones there (I'm a fan of Freezing, Quicksand and Sleet) and the DC scales better than spells do. I was thinking more along the lines of Geisha Bard or WotHL Paladin.