Overwatch: HYPETRAIN HAS LEFT THE STATION Spring 2016 Release Confirmed!

[ChaosOS]

OVERWATCH
YOU KNOW, THE WORLD COULD ALWAYS USE MORE HEROES
May 24th Release
Launch Details (https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/blog/20119623)

Main game page: http://us.battle.net/overwatch/en/

Game is $40 for the full game with all 21 heroes, $60 gets you the Origins Edition which will include all the in-game goodies for other blizzard games + 5 unique skins for the various heroes. Preorder here: http://us.battle.net/overwatch/en/buy/

There will NOT be Mac support but there will be console versions for XBox One and PS4. There have not yet been any announcements regarding the future monetization model beyond the base game.

WHAT IS OVERWATCH?
From Blizzard's website:"Overwatch™ is a team-based shooter where heroes do battle in a world of conflict."

What that means: Overwatch is predominantly a first person shooter. It's not a MOBA. However, it has taken a few queues from MOBAs, as the diverse roster of characters (21 different heroes as of launch) has a lot of personality to it. Beyond that, each character is equipped with a suite of abilities rather than multiple gun options as in most shooters, although a few characters do have multiple fire modes. At the end of the day though, Overwatch is a first person shooter through and through.

VIDEOS
Link to official youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClOf1XXinvZsy4wKPAkro2A

GORGEOUS Blizzard cinematic trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqnKB22pOC0
Theatrical Teaser: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBIwGKDwnWY


And five animated Shorts!
Recall (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sB5zlHMsM7k)
Alive (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U130wnpi-C0)
Dragons (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5w2-3Dn9PGg)
Hero (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPRRupAM4DI)
The Last Bastion (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=to8yh83jlXg)

Gameplay trailer 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dushZybUYnM
Gameplay trailer 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEYp1RTvllM

Comics
Train Hopper: https://comic.playoverwatch.com/en-us/mccree-train-hopper

Dragon Slayer: https://comic.playoverwatch.com/en-us/reinhardt-dragon-slayer

A Better World: https://comic.playoverwatch.com/en-us/symmetra-a-better-world

Mission Statement: https://comic.playoverwatch.com/en-us/pharah-mission-statement

Destroyer: https://comic.playoverwatch.com/en-us/torbjorn-destroyer

Legacy: https://comic.playoverwatch.com/en-us/legacy

Old Soldiers: https://comic.playoverwatch.com/en-us/ana-old-soldiers

Battletag Collection
legoshrimp#1722
AgentPaper#1193
Firedaemon#1486
Draken#1736
TheJackal#1499
NeoVid#1862
LeSwordfish#2954
Huttj#1478
Rosstin#1609
Daedalus#1347
Firedaemon#1486
NeoVid#1862
Adaon#2254
Geno9999#1674
MightyThews#11597
Veebeebee#1383


7/21 Ana comics added
5/23 Added new battletags, Torbjorn comic
5/21 Updated OP with newest videos, comics, and launch details
5/3 Started the catalog of GITPers
4/29: Added "Alive" "Recall" and the Theatrical Teaser to the Videos and added a Comics section

[Brance_a_Lot]

As bad as I am at First Person Shooters, Blizzard always has fun and entertaining game design and the way they streamline stuff makes it easy to pick up, so I can't wait to try it.

[Gandariel]

Woo hoo! Can't wait to try it.

Also, put the two trailers (cinematic and gameplay) in the first post.

They are something of utter beauty.

[NeoVid]

Everything I've seen of this game has reminded me of Super Monday Night Combat, and since that's one of my favorite games ever, I'm going to try out Overwatch. There's also the added bonus that this one will actually have a player base, since it's from Blizzard.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

FINALLY.

I've been waiting for something to happen with that next icon in my Battle.net launcher. I wonder how soon until I get in.

[GolemsVoice]

I used to play Team Fortress 2 pretty actively, so I'm looking forward to this.

[Ionbound]

Well, let's see if Blizzard can make a game that's not a major grind-fiesta. I am hopeful.

[GolemsVoice]

Have their other games been so grindy?

[Gandariel]

Diablo and WoW are reportedly very grindy. (I only played Diablo 2 a long time ago)

Hearthstone, well I don't find it grindy, but some do.

Starcraft and Heroes of the Storm are not grindy at all.

[Ionbound]

I find Hearthstone grindy, not quite on the level of Diablo or WoW, but moreso than I can enjoy. And HotS just sort of does the MOBA thing of not being grindy if you really enjoy it, but feels like a chore if you haven't found a hero you like. Starcraft isn't grindy, but is intensely difficult.

[ChaosOS]

And to be fair to Diablo 3 and WoW, the genre is defined by being a continual grind fest. If you enjoy it it's a lot of fun, but you have to recognize that's all it is, constantly killing newer and tougher things to get loot which lets you kill newer and tougher things.

[ChaosOS]

Beta is LIVE and has been #1 on twitch all day!

[Ionbound]

Nuuu...I didn't get into the first round of Beta. *flails at Battle.Net taunting me with Overwatch icon*

[ChaosOS]

Actually, invites will be going out until late tonight. Just to add to the stress

[Rakoa]

Wait, so, they aren't out yet? Grrr.....pleasepleasepleasepleaseplease....

[ChaosOS]

Officially closed now unfortunately

[Rakoa]

Did anyone here get in? I sure didn't.

[AgentPaper]

I got in on the second wave, and it's been a blast so far.

I'm not much of a twitch-reflex.gamer, so I tend to play heroes like Reinhardt, Symmetra, and Winston where having perfect aim 100% of the time isn't necessary.

Reinhardt especially is a ton of fun. That frontal shield can take a real beating, so as long as your teammates can keep your flanks secure, you can also up a lot of damage, often close to 20,000 or even more over the course of a match.

His charge attack is also a ton of fun to use, and can lead to great moments like launching enemies off the map or just pinning an enemy tank or healer to swing a fight.

His blast attack is less exciting, but does a lot of good work too. It has a really long range, is great for taking out stationary targets and just does a lot of damage too, making it good even at close range. The fact that it pierces through groups of enemies or shields like Winston 's or an enemy Reinhardt's is just icing on the cake.

The only real gripe I have is that his ultimate is hard to land and not very exciting. It doesn't do a lot of damage and the stun is often too short to use it well yourself, and is finicky in who it hits. Still, I could see it being good with a coordinated team, and the rest of his kit more than makes up for that one weakness.

Edit: since it seems like I might be the only one on the forum to get in so far, feel free to ask questions about the various heroes/maps/modes/etc and I'll answer as best I can.

[ChaosOS]

Try watching http://www.twitch.tv/itmejp , he's been a god with Reinhardt and consistently has devastating ults and was getting play of the game 90% of the time during the 6v6 streamers only.

[AgentPaper]

Try watching http://www.twitch.tv/itmejp , he's been a god with Reinhardt and consistently has devastating ults and was getting play of the game 90% of the time during the 6v6 streamers only.

But why would I watch Overwatch when I can play Overwatch? :smalltongue:

Seriously though I'll take a look, see if I can figure out why mine keeps flubbing.

[t209]

So do you wonder if its' more like "Blizzard's Marvel Universe: where heroes fight other heroes rather than villain" (Mostly since it would be common to see many heroic characters going against eachother), which also kinda not consistent with the lore due to Reinhardt (most moral) working with psychopaths (Junkrat) and villains (Reaper, Widowmaker).

[ChaosOS]

The matches have 0 lore behind them, however Blizzard is doing a lot of world building to go along with the actual game. All the maps are more representative of different places the characters are relevant/events happen, for example Anubis is where there's a top secret Egyptian military blacksite with super secret tech, Dorado is the location of a Junkrat/Roadhog heist, etc.

[Gray Mage]

I think most games have lore/gameplay segregation. I mean, nobody minds in HotS when Tyrael and Diablo are in the same team. :smalltongue:

Anyway, didn't get into the beta yet, but I'm still hopefull. I'm liking what I've seen on videos/streams so far.

[ChaosOS]

I mean in HotS you're explicitly told not to think about it too much by the tutorial

[ChaosOS]

So, blizzcon (Day 1) news:

Buy to play ($40), origins edition ($60) includes 5 skins (Strike Commander Jack Morrison (S76), Blackwatch Reyes (Reaper), Slipstream Tracer, Overgrown Bastion, and Army Captain Fareeha (Pharah)) and promo content for other games

3 new heroes that will round out the roster until launch: Genji, Hanzo's brother he left for dead that was built into a cyborg ninja by Overwatch, D.Va a pro sc2 player turned mech pilot, and Mei, a chinese climatologist with a cold gun.

New map: Hollywood. Payload escort the highly wanted Halfred Glitchbot to his studio (Standard payload map)

[Rakoa]

Thanks for the update! I have pre-ordered and I can't wait for the real fun to begin.

EDIT: MAN!!!! I thought wanting to main SEVEN of the characters was too much, but then Genji and D.Va just HAD to make an appearance....

I think D.Va might actually be my second favourite now.

[Ionbound]

*looks at new Characters*

God, D.va has me on tilt. Already. Also, Mei is the cutest thing ever, without a doubt.

[Rakoa]

I went and watched some streams to try and narrow down my character choices. Instead it has grown.

D.Va, Genji, Junkrat, McCree, Tracer, Reaper (ugh), Widowmaker, Reinhardt, Hanzo, Mercy, Zenyatta....ELEVEN CHARACTERS!

How will I function? How will I ever learn all of these characters? This is the end...

[ChaosOS]

New heroes patched in, balance changes too! (Mercy Ult now rezzes at end of animation instead of beginning, making it interruptible. McCree now has 50% damage fall off based on range, Deadeye now lasts 5 seconds from 10, a variety of Symmetra QoL changes)

[Ionbound]

And yet still none of us have a copy. :smallmad::smallsigh:

[Rakoa]

I opened up Battle.net last night and found that I had an Overwatch Beta invite just sitting there. Happiest moment of my life.

Then I woke up.

In sadness and pain, I opened up Battle.net. And guess what I had? A Beta invite.

TO GODDAMN STARCRAFT ARE YOU SERIOUS I DON'T EVEN PLAY STARCRAFT I NEVER HAVE ONCE

[AgentPaper]

I do! Thoughts on the new heroes:

D.va: This girl is a beast. Something you might not have noticed reading about her that's very important is that almost all of her health is in the form of armor, which makes her surprisingly resilient, and next to unkillable with a healer on them. Aside from that, her main attack does good damage at close range, and decent damage at mid-range, though she can't engage at long range really. Not needing to reload is nice, but not as OP as some seem to think.

Her defensive field is also great, and blocks just about anything, though there are some notable exceptions. It doesn't last very long, but there's some good uses, such as blocking a bastion or turret long enough for your team to take care of it, or nullifying various ultimates, like Pharah, Reaper, and Soldier: 76. Add in her mobility from her rockets (which have a very short cooldown), and she's basically bastion's worst nightmare.

Her ultimate is crazy powerful, but since it hits both friends and foes, you have to be careful when and where you use it. It's also fairly easy to avoid if you know how, since anything that breaks LoS will protect you, even a payload. Which is good, because trying to run from the blast is likely to end poorly. The radius and damage on this thing are both very large, so get behind cover and wait it out.

There are also two neat tricks that you can use with this ult: First, you can activate it just after using your boosters, and your suit will continue to rocket forwards before detonating, allowing you to "throw" your ultimate forwards quite a bit. Second, when you lose your HP and get kicked out of your mech, you can use your ult just after you die, and your suit will explode instead of just going away, which is especially useful when your team is being pressed hard and you need to buy some time. Also worth mentioning that after your suit self-destructs, your "call mech" ultimate charges to 100% instantly, even if you don't hit anything it seems, which can be pretty useful.

Overall, D.va is a powerful hero, but not over-powered. I'd put her on par with heroes like Bastion, Pharah, and Reinhardt. Powerful heroes that you need to know how to deal with, but which can be dealt with if you're conscious of their abilities.


Mei: Aside from being absolutely adorable, she's a great hero as well, especially on the defense, as you may imagine. At 250 HP, she's not as squishy as you might think, and both her primary and alt fire are fairly strong. The primary is great up close, especially against fast characters like Tracer and Genji, since once they're slowed down they're basically dead. It can also be good on other heroes though, allowing you to freeze them and then punch them to death, or line up a careful headshot with your alt fire.

Speaking of your alt fire, damn does this thing hurt. I'd compare it to sniper-level damage, as well as range and accuracy. If you can get a headshot, this will kill a lot of weaker heroes outright. The travel time makes hitting at long range difficult, but it's great for pot-shots, against large enemies (especially armored ones like D.va), and to finish off enemies at close range after freezing them, as mentioned before.

Aside from her weapons, she also has some great utility. Ice block is good for saving yourself in a pinch, but really it's the heal that you'll be using it for most of the time. This allows you to be much more aggressive than you normally could be, since you can just pull back a bit, ice block, and be right back in the action. The cooldown is pretty short so don't feel like you need to save it for an emergency. Better to heal and get back in the fight than wait for a clutch save.

And then of course, there's her signature ability, the ice wall. This can be a bit of a double-edged sword, since it blocks your ally' line of fire as well as your enemy's. The most common usage is to place it in front of your team to buy you some time to regroup, block an enemy ult or major push, or just stall your enemy in general if you're defending. You can also use it a bit more tactically though, for example by placing it in the midst of an enemy push to split them up and allow your team to fight half of the enemy team (who probably can't run because of the wall) instead of the whole enemy team.

Her ult has some potential, but unlike D.va's, it's not going to wipe the enemy team, at least not on it's own. You have to be very aware of where your team is when you use this, to ensure that they're able to capitalize on the slow and stun to wipe the enemy team, because the actual damage from the ult alone is pretty minimal. It's very easy to catch the whole enemy team with this ult, and then watch as it amounts to nothing because your team had just retreated, or was half dead, or just not in position to attack.

Overall, I think Sei is a strong hero, who probably won't show up on Play of the Game much, but nonetheless will prove pivotal in many matchups. No single ability of hers really stands out as incredible, but overall the package really comes together to make for a very solid and fun hero.


Genji: I don't have as much to say about Genji, mostly because I haven't played him much (and don't really plan to), but he seems pretty good as well, though with some weaknesses. Perhaps the most notable thing about him, though, is that he probably has a very high skill cap, perhaps the highest in the game. He's very mobile, and his dash attack and especially his deflection ability can be incredibly powerful if used well, being the difference between your team being wiped out by bastion, and instead wiping out the enemy team by reflecting his shots back at them. Used at the right time, against the right incoming fire, and with good aim, you can probable do some really nasty work with this. His ult is also pretty strong, but like Reaper's, McCree's, or Soldier: 76's, it doesn't make you invincible, so you need to be careful to use it at the right time to get the most out of it.

Overall, you're probably going to run into a lot of mediocre Genji's who just do OK, but in the hands of a truly skilled player I could see him becoming a real monster.


Finally, the new map. Not a ton to say about this, it's a lot like Numbani, where you have to capture a point that's pretty hard to defend, then move a payload to the finish. It'll take some time before I really get a handle on the layout, but nothing really stands out as especially amazing or terrible. Just another pretty great map among a lot of pretty great maps.

[Rakoa]

Excellent! Glad that at least ONE of us had some luck.

I haven't been watching many streams or anything like that, so I was wondering if you could help me get a feel for some of the characters I want to play. For example, you've done a great rundown of D.va who I love, but I also really like Reinhardt and I was wondering how the two of them compare and in which ways one is better than the other given a specific situation. Reinhardt seems less mobile overall but more dependable in terms of damage output and absorption, but I don't know for sure.

On the Offence spectrum, it is a tossup between McCree and Reaper for me. They seem to have surprisingly similar playstyles from what I can tell (get close, shoot 'em dead) and they both have ways to facilitate that (stun grenade vs. shadow man). What would you consider the primary differences between the two? And in what situation would you play one over the other?

For Defence I have no idea. I think I'd really have to play the characters myself to figure out who I want to play most between Junkrat, Widowmaker, and Hanzo. Junkrat looks really difficult to play properly (knowing the map really well for trap planting, aiming those explosives looks unpleasant, and even his ultimate looks unreliable without a lot of skill), whereas Widowmaker seems dead easy (camp spot, headshots, grapple away when your venom mine goes off), and Hanzo feels somewhere in between.

The characters all seem great, of course. I fully intend to play them all at some point, even the ones that really didn't grab my attention immediately like Lucio, Symmetra, and Torbjorn.

How are you personally enjoying the game so far? Which heroes do you use the most frequently and why?

[AgentPaper]

I haven't been watching many streams or anything like that, so I was wondering if you could help me get a feel for some of the characters I want to play. For example, you've done a great rundown of D.va who I love, but I also really like Reinhardt and I was wondering how the two of them compare and in which ways one is better than the other given a specific situation. Reinhardt seems less mobile overall but more dependable in terms of damage output and absorption, but I don't know for sure.

Sure thing! Reinhardt was actually my most-played character before D.va came out, I suspect once D.va's novelty has worn off I'll be playing him more often again.

As for Reinhardt's kit, he's definitely one of the better tanks, if not the best tank. His absorption shield has a massive health pool, and regenerates quickly when you take it down, allowing you to absorb a truly tremendous amount of damage over the course of a match. I think my record so far is close to 25,000 damage blocked in a match, in a game where 500 is a lot of health. Of course, not all of that damage would have been directed at your teammates, your shield is big and will take a real beating, but with a good team who actually uses your shield for cover and protects you from being flanked, you can do very well indeed.

As for his offense, he doesn't have anywhere near the mobility that D.va has, and his damage output isn't as high, but he has better methods of control with his charge and his ultimate, and his fire strike (ranged line attack) and rocket hammer (basic melee) both do respectable damage. Something funny about Reinhardt is that he's actually one of the best equipped heroes for taking down enemy Renhardt's, since all of his abilities save his ultimate ignore physical shields like Reinhardt's and Winston's.


On the Offence spectrum, it is a tossup between McCree and Reaper for me. They seem to have surprisingly similar playstyles from what I can tell (get close, shoot 'em dead) and they both have ways to facilitate that (stun grenade vs. shadow man). What would you consider the primary differences between the two? And in what situation would you play one over the other?

I don't play offense much (I usually play tank or support when attacking), so I can't comment too much, but Reaper is more of a dedicated close-in combatant, since his shotguns drop off in damage very quickly, making him useless even at medium ranges. McCree used to be amazing at all ranges, but with the most recent patch he's been nerfed a bit so he isn't as powerful at long range as he used to be. Probably the main difference between the two is that Reaper has much better mobility, especially for getting behind enemy lines, allowing him to sneak up behind enemy positions and wreak havoc (or get caught on his own and smashed, if you aren't careful). McCree isn't as mobile, but has better damage, probably even at close range. He can take out even the toughest tanks in just a few clips. If you get hit by his stun, you're probably dead, even though it only lasts for a very short time.

In general, Reaper is probably better when your enemy has a strong defensive line, with heroes like Reinhardt, Bastion, and Widowmaker, since getting behind those heroes can have a lot of benefit. McCree is just generally a good hero to have around in any situation, though at least until he was nerfed, he was one of the best heroes to take down Pharah, as long as your aim was good. With the range dropoff nerf he might have a harder time with her now, but probably still pretty good.


For Defence I have no idea. I think I'd really have to play the characters myself to figure out who I want to play most between Junkrat, Widowmaker, and Hanzo. Junkrat looks really difficult to play properly (knowing the map really well for trap planting, aiming those explosives looks unpleasant, and even his ultimate looks unreliable without a lot of skill), whereas Widowmaker seems dead easy (camp spot, headshots, grapple away when your venom mine goes off), and Hanzo feels somewhere in between.

I don't play any of those heroes much, but from what I've seen and what little I've played, I'd actually say that Junkrat is the easiest to play, followed by Widowmaker and finally Hanzo as the hardest. With Junkrat, it's pretty easy to just sit back and lob grenades and mines at your enemies all day, and even if that's all you do, you're going to be helping out your team a lot. There's definitely room for a skilled player to use mine jumps (which aren't as difficult as you may think), traps, and precise ricochets to improve their performance, but that isn't necessary to contribute.

Widowmaker and Hanzo are more difficult, mostly because you have to have really good aim and reflexes to get the most out of them. You can really feel the difference when you're fighting a good Widowmaker versus a poor one, especially if you're playing a character with low health who just gets killed again and again and again by headshots. Hanzo is even harder, since his arrows have a travel time and (I'm pretty sure) a slight dropoff, so you can't just point and click like you can with Widowmaker. He relies on being more mobile, and isn't as good at extreme ranges, but his ricochet shot and enemy-sensing shot help out a lot, letting a new player contribute at least somewhat. A very good Hanzo can be just as oppressive as a very good Widowmaker, if not moreso, but seems to be much more rare, I suspect largely because of how much more skill it takes to really master him.


The characters all seem great, of course. I fully intend to play them all at some point, even the ones that really didn't grab my attention immediately like Lucio, Symmetra, and Torbjorn.

Lucio, Symmetra, and to a lesser extent Torbjorn are actually some of my favorite characters in the game, and fairly powerful in their own right. Not as flashy and less likely to get Play of the Game (but absolutely possible, I've done so as all 3 multiple times), but really good at amplifying your team to allow them to reach greater heights than normally possible, whether from direct buffs (Lucio > Symmetra > Torbjorn) or by creating a solid back line that your team can use as a springboard (Torbjorn > Symmetra > Lucio). And all 3 are actually quite good in direct combat as well. You're not going to beat an Offense character in a direct fight, but if the enemy is distracted by your team, caught out of position, or simply under-estimates your capabilities, you can really rack up the kills very quickly.


How are you personally enjoying the game so far? Which heroes do you use the most frequently and why?

A whole lot. My most played hero fluctuates quite a bit, at first I played Reinhardt almost exclusively, but since then I've been branching out and I think Lucio might actually be my most played hero at the moment, though D.va and Mei are catching up quickly. I also often play and consider myself decent at: Symmetra, Winston, Torbjorn, Roadhog, and Soldier: 76. Exactly which one I play depends mostly on whether we're attacking or defending, the rest of my team, the enemy team, the map, and how I'm feeling, roughly in that order.

If you're new to the game, I'd suggest trying out all of the heroes at least once, as you may be surprised by which hero you prefer the most. I certainly wasn't expecting to like Lucio as much as I do, for example. Aside from that, try to pay attention to the team building tips in the hero selection screen (ie: no support/tank, low team damage, no builder/sniper, too many snipers/defense, etc.). There are definitely some outlier team comps outside of their formula that can do as good or better than a more "standard" team comp, but as a rule of thumb it's pretty good for making sure you have no glaring weaknesses. And though the developers have said this a lot, don't be afraid to switch heroes mid-match! Changing your hero to counter an enemy, better work with your team's composition, or just because certain heroes are better or worse at different stages of the map is a huge part of the strategy of Overwatch, and can very easily mean the difference between an easy victory and a crushing defeat. You don't need to master every hero in the game, but you should try to have a decent stable of heroes you know well or at least well enough, and be willing to switch to them when the need arises.

[Rakoa]

Thank you so much. You certainly know your stuff, I gotta say, even outside of your zone of expertise. The only downside is you've inflamed new heights of excitement within me for this game. Time to go F5 my Battle.net account again.... :smallwink:

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I opened up Battle.net last night and found that I had an Overwatch Beta invite just sitting there. Happiest moment of my life.

Then I woke up.

In sadness and pain, I opened up Battle.net. And guess what I had? A Beta invite.

TO GODDAMN STARCRAFT ARE YOU SERIOUS I DON'T EVEN PLAY STARCRAFT I NEVER HAVE ONCE
Oop. :smalltongue:

Side note: are beta invites still going out? My Overwatch launcher changed to the "preorder" icon, which makes me kinda dread that all beta has stopped.

[AgentPaper]

Beta invites are still going out, slowly. Apparently there was a new wave after Blizzcon at any rate. I'm sure there'll be more in the future, but never all that much, especially compared to Heroes of the Storm and Hearthstone's betas, which were basically just everyone who wanted in. Which made sense for those games, since they're both free to play, but Overwatch isn't so don't assume you'll get in.

That said, I do suspect that they'll be getting lots of people in near the end, probably through some kind of weekend stress test where anyone can jump in, just to make sure their servers can handle the inevitable onslaught that release day will bring.

[Rakoa]

My sources say that another wave went out a few hours ago.

Not for I.

I drink my problems away now.

[Ionbound]

I too have been morphed to pre-order. I hate that a certain amount of the launch population are going to have thousands of hours of practice over everyone else in what Blizzard seems to want to be a competitive game.

[Rakoa]

Stress test weekend coming up, starting Friday. Accounts will be flagged and allowed to pre-load the game tomorrow. Anyone else have their fingers crossed?

[Ionbound]

Yes. Dear god yes.

[AgentPaper]

Some pro tips to hopefully prevent too much misery for new players:

1) Bastion is god. Do not fight a turret-mode bastion head-on, he will win. Yes, even with that hero, using that ability. Yes, even if there are four of you. You need to get behind bastion, or shoot him without letting him shoot back. Use cover, lob grenades, jump behind him. Reaper, Winston, D.va, Pharah, and Junkrat are all great counters to Bastion.

2) Torbjorn's Turret is dangerous. If you see one, treat it with respect. Don't run in front of it (or behind it, or next to it, or anywhere near it really), seek cover, tell your teammates preferably, and shoot it either from outside it's range, or by ducking in and out of cover quickly. Pharah, Junkrat, Hanzo, Mei, and Widowmaker are all great at taking it out from long range.

As an addendum to 1 and 2, D.va with her defense field and to a lesser extent Reinhardt, Winston, and Zarya can use their shields to allow someone else to take bastion or the turret down if you're quick and well-coordinated, but you need to communicate with your team and tell them what you're doing. Don't just run in and expect your team to follow naturally, especially since most other people you're playing with are going to be new as well for the weekend.

3) Kill/death ratio is meaningless! There is no team deathmatch mode in Overwatch for a good reason. The player on your team who died 10 times and got 2 solo kills could very easily be your MVP, even if they aren't a healer! You have to work together as a team to win in this game, don't run off on your own unless that's specifically what your hero is built for (ie: Tracer, Reaper, Widowmaker). Even then, try to fight, if not alongside your team, then at least nearby, and against people who matter. Killing one person next to the payload is worth much more than killing someone on the other side of the map (unless they're a sniper or bastion who's killing your team).

4) Stick with the tank! This is kinda part of "stick together and work as a team", but it really deserves two point. Your tank has shields or some other way of protecting you, so take advantage of that as best you can. Everyone following one person is also just an easy way to keep the team working together when you're playing with strangers.

5) When you hear a hero say something menacing sounding (ie:" I've got you in my sights." "It's high noon." "Nerf this!" "Die! Die! Die!"), that means someone has used their ultimate. Your first instinct should be to run for cover as quickly as possible. As you learn the ultimates and how to specifically react to each one, you can do more specific counters, but in general running and hiding like a little girl is a good idea. Also note that they say something different when it's an ally using their ultimate, so you can learn to recognize these and react accordingly. Using multiple ultimates at the same time is often a great idea.

For some specific ult reaction advice:

D.va: Find cover, or throw up a shield. Don't try to run directly away unless you're already pretty far from the blast. Anything that blocks line of sight will block the explosion, whether it's a wall, a cart, a shield, an ice wall, or whatever.

McCree: Similar to D.va, find cover or put up a shield. Try to spot him as quickly as possible, but start running for cover regardless. Note that McCree can sit with his ult pending for a long time, and the lock-on time doesn't reset when you're out of sight, so stay behind cover and don't try to peek out to kill him. Just wait for him to use it or cancel the ultimate.

Reaper: While he does a lot of damage with his ult, it provides no protection. Find him and kill him ASAP if you can, or put down a shield if you're a tank. A stun or other CC is good too, if you're quick enough. Running or seeking cover will probably take too long unless you're a tank, so just try to kill him as best you can.

Pharah: Similar to Reaper, try to kill her ASAP. She doesn't move while it's active, so she should be easy to hit.

Soldier: 76: Don't underestimate how much damage he does. Get behind cover, or shoot him if you get the chance. Range will not help you, as his bullets can hit you across the map through a tiny opening while his ult is active. It's not instant death though (unless you're Tracer or something), so fight him head-on if you think you can beat him.

Roadhog: Just run away or get behind cover. His ult is only really dangerous if you're close. If you can get any decent distance away, you'll be fine. Shields won't help much here though. Use them, but only to cover your retreat, not to soak all the damage.

Junkrat: You can shoot the tire to detonate it early, do that if you can. Really though, you should try to spread out or run away if you can. It can travel quite a long ways.

Genji: Like Reaper and Pharah, just kill him. You can't really run or hide from him, as his is mobile and his ult lasts a while, so just take him down ASAP.

Mei: One of the less dangerous ultimates, not a ton of counterplay, just try to run out of the area if you can. The damage is pretty small, everyone can survive it, it's only really dangerous if the enemy follows up, so if you can kill them before you get frozen, you'll be safe.

Lucio: His damage shield is massive, but doesn't last very long. Just pull back when he uses it, then re-engage once it runs out.

Tracer: Not a ton of counter-play, kill her before she can use it, and if you've got a shield throw it up in response if you can. It detonates quickly though, so running away or finding cover usually takes too long. Doesn't hurt to try though.

Zarya: Use movement abilities to get out if you can, otherwise use a shield if you have it, or especially if you can, kill her or her teammates to prevent them from capitalizing on it.

Widowmaker: You probably won't even know she's using it until you see the killcam, so just bear through it.

Winston: Angry monkey can be scary, but doesn't actually do all that much damage. Don't let him distract you from more dangerous targets. Spread out and take him down from range once more pressing matters are taken care of.

Reinhardt: Don't group up in front of Reinhardt, or you're going to regret it. Any kind of cover or shield will block the shockwave.

Symmetra: Kill that teleporter. If you're an offense character, this is probably your job. Especially if you're Reaper or Tracer. Just don't forget about the enemy team and the objective while you're looking for it.

Torbjorn: Shoot him, or his turret if he just put one down. You probably won't see his ult often, though, since he's probably using it way in the back to put up a quick level 3 turret, so watch out for that.

Hanzo: It's big, it's colorful, and you can hear it coming from a mile away. You should really never be killed by this in most circumstances. Just run out as best you can, cover and shields won't help you.

Zenyatta: His team is being healed very fast, so they're nigh-unkillable. Zenyatta himself is actually unkillable while this is up, so don't even try. Burst down his teammates if you can, or just fall back a bit until it's over.

Mercy: Kill mercy first, or you will regret it. She can be killed during her ult to cancel it now, but she shouldn't even have the chance to use it. Kill her first.

Bastion: His tank mode is surprisingly scary, but not as crazy as many ultimates. Either kill him or fall back until it's over.

6) Switch heroes often! There's nothing wrong with having a favorite hero, but you need to be able to recognize when you need to switch, whether to fill a weakness in your team, or to counter a specific enemy that's causing your team problems. Getting wrecked by Bastion? Switch to Junkrat! Can't seem to hit Pharah? Switch to Soldier: 76! It'll take you some time to figure out what heroes are best in what circumstances, though, so don't be afraid to experiment. There's a (very bare-bones) single player mode so you can jump into that if you just want to try out a new hero and figure out how to use their abilities before going into a real match, but don't be afraid to just suck for a few matches until you get the hang of it. Try to build up a stable of heroes that you're at least decent with, and switch between them often.

7) Finally, just to save everyone some time, unless you've never played an FPS in your life, skip the tutorial. It's literally just "Look up. Good job! Ok now look down. Great! Now walk over here. Hooray! Now press LMB to shoot. Amazing! etc. Play around in singleplayer for a bit if you must, then just jump into multiplayer as soon as you can. You'll learn as you go!

[Rakoa]

These tips...they are incredibly useful! Thank you. It seems Junkrat is a good counter to quite a few things, which is good because I really like him quite a bit. I'm planning to use him when Defence is needed (unless another Hero would be better, of course). Offence, though, I gotta work with before I know what to do. So many good looking choices, so I gotta play around to make sure that I know what I'm doing. You know, that I can actually PLAY this cool looking Hero. Tracer looks cool for harrassment and what not, but Reaper might be a better fit for me.

I'm playin' McCree and Zenyatta if it kills me, though.

[AgentPaper]

These tips...they are incredibly useful! Thank you. It seems Junkrat is a good counter to quite a few things, which is good because I really like him quite a bit. I'm planning to use him when Defence is needed (unless another Hero would be better, of course). Offence, though, I gotta work with before I know what to do. So many good looking choices, so I gotta play around to make sure that I know what I'm doing. You know, that I can actually PLAY this cool looking Hero. Tracer looks cool for harrassment and what not, but Reaper might be a better fit for me.

I'm playin' McCree and Zenyatta if it kills me, though.

Yeah, he's quite useful to have around, though he has some notable weaknesses as well. Notably, he simply can't fight Pharah whatsoever, what with the flying and all. He'll also struggle against long-range heroes like Widowmaker or Hanzo.

[Ionbound]

I got into the Stress Test! Woohoo!

[Rakoa]

I have also made it into the stress test. Here's hoping that the servers allow for actual play this weekend!



...and that Monday never comes.

[ChaosOS]

Did not make it in :/

[DaedalusMkV]

Did not make it in :/

Me neither. Which is fine, because I'm so busy this weekend I would only have been saddened by having access to it. Now instead I can curse Blizzard for passing me by!

[Yana]

I managed to score access. Here's hoping my fps skills haven't completely atrophied.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I got in! I'm also visiting friends in another city this weekend! I have the best timing ever!

[Legoshrimp]

I got in! I'm also visiting friends in another city this weekend! I have the best timing ever!

Clearly you should change your plans.

I also got it.
So I will probably be playing some(legoshrimp#1722)

[Seerow]

I got access for the stress test as well.


Plus I'll be building my new computer sunday afternoonish. So I'll probably be playing late Sunday night/monday morning, breaking in the new desktop. If anyone expects to be on that late on a Sunday (awful time, I know. But it's what my schedule will allow) feel free to look me up. Battletag Oshi#1354

[Rakoa]

Yes, I encourage anyone here to add me and we can shoot up some fools. Rakoa#1460

[Yana]

I suppose I could use assistance as well, NA: Raltis#1807

[Ionbound]

You could always use another hero, right? Firedaemon#1486

[The_Jackal]

So do you wonder if its' more like "Blizzard's Marvel Universe: where heroes fight other heroes rather than villain" (Mostly since it would be common to see many heroic characters going against eachother), which also kinda not consistent with the lore due to Reinhardt (most moral) working with psychopaths (Junkrat) and villains (Reaper, Widowmaker).

Eh, my understanding is that the backstory is just leftover from spit-balling over the aborted Project: Titan. In any case, Blizzard has always been gameplay first, story second. And, finally, yeah, in lots of genres, Heroes turn heel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heel_(professional_wrestling)) and Villains turn face (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_(professional_wrestling)) all the time, and then there's the 'alliance of convenience'.

[AgentPaper]

Eh, I see it as the same as Marvel vs Capcom fighting games allowing anyone to fight anyone. And also Superman in any fighting game not just winning every match effortlessly. It just works like that for the sake of the game, it doesn't mean that Winston and Reaper fighting against Tracer and Widowmaker is something that could even possibly happen. Doubly so when you realize you could have a match with 12 Winstons fighting it out.

[huttj509]

Questions:

1: Do commendations at the end have any mechanics, or just a voted "good job!"
2: What are the medals by my after game stats?
3: Why was I the only one who seemed to be trying to escort the objective? Am I missing something (for example, "winning doesn't matter so have fun running round shooting guys")?

[Ionbound]

1. Nothing, though I suspect that upon full release that they'll be a karma mechanic of some kind.
2. The medals are where you placed on your team. If you're getting one that means you did a good job.
3. Welcome to multiplayer games.

I have to say that the character I've been having the most fun with so far is Bastion. No complicated mechanics, no hair-splitting reaction times, just find a nice corner to sit in and rain hot lead down upon your enemies.

[AgentPaper]

1: Do commendations at the end have any mechanics, or just a voted "good job!"

They're new, and apparently being used to help them gauge how well their matchmaking system is working. So ideally you'll use it to vote for players that made the game less fun by being too good or too bad compared to the rest of the players.


3: Why was I the only one who seemed to be trying to escort the objective? Am I missing something (for example, "winning doesn't matter so have fun running round shooting guys")?

Because you're playing with new players who haven't figured out that they aren't playing Team Deathmatch. Don't worry, they'll learn. Or at least, by doing better you'll move up and be placed with other people who know how to play the game.

[Mr.Moron]

I've heard people complain about Heroes of the Storm match making but this is something else. I must be like 4-24 at this point. I get I suck, but could you maybe stick with people who suck just as much? The appeal of blizzard games has always been accessibility and the being able to have a solid play experience with other players of your skill level regardless of what that is. I'm so not getting this from this game. I spend more time dead than alive and I'm lucky to get 1 kill for every 10 times I die.

I've never had more of curb-stomp-chain play experience in any game than I'm having here.

[AgentPaper]

I've heard people complain about Heroes of the Storm match making but this is something else. I must be like 4-24 at this point. I get I suck, but could you maybe stick with people who suck just as much? The appeal of blizzard games has always been accessibility and the being able to have a solid play experience with other players of your skill level regardless of what that is. I'm so not getting this from this game. I spend more time dead than alive and I'm lucky to get 1 kill for every 10 times I die.

I've never had more of curb-stomp-chain play experience in any game than I'm having here.

Try out different heroes. Aside from that, note that making the matchmaker work is exactly what this beta is for, so just make sure to note it when a match or particular player is bad.

[Olinser]

I've heard people complain about Heroes of the Storm match making but this is something else. I must be like 4-24 at this point. I get I suck, but could you maybe stick with people who suck just as much? The appeal of blizzard games has always been accessibility and the being able to have a solid play experience with other players of your skill level regardless of what that is. I'm so not getting this from this game. I spend more time dead than alive and I'm lucky to get 1 kill for every 10 times I die.

I've never had more of curb-stomp-chain play experience in any game than I'm having here.

It has to start you somewhere. Given that it literally JUST came out, there are an awful lot of people that the matchmaker is trying to place. So it has started everybody out at their best guess at 'average'.

If you are extremely far below the average its going to take a while to actually get down to your true skill level.

I mean, not to put too fine a point on it, but they're trying not to tank you all the way to the bottom too fast, even if you are that bad.

[Mr.Moron]

Try out different heroes. Aside from that, note that making the matchmaker work is exactly what this beta is for, so just make sure to note it when a match or particular player is bad.

I have been doing all those things. I actually really like the end of match feedback tools. I'd other love to seem them ported into their other titles. However they're gonna tune this thing to be much more responsive. I get it's a beta and that's why I'm powering through, but this thing is scheduled for launch in just a few months! I might expect this kind of experience from a game 10-12 months out from launch but being this close to retail while still only being able to offer players like me a near-permanent view of the "Kill Cam" is kind of disconcerting.

SC, HoTs & Hearthstone all found a place for me pretty quickly (Silver League, Rank 30 and Rank 19-18 respectively), this game is putting me in the grinder and keeping me there. It's really tough.

[Ionbound]

So, I figured out the counter to Bastion: Reaper. Jesus christ Reaper. Especially when there's two of them.

[ChaosOS]

Developer update: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKG8Yx6F7uc

TL;DW: Future Heroes and Maps to be free, More audio options incoming, Killfeed coming, Improvements to other score screen items coming.

[Ionbound]

Oh thank god, on all of those fronts. That's awesome.

[Mr.Moron]

Developer update: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKG8Yx6F7uc

TL;DW: Future Heroes and Maps to be free, More audio options incoming, Killfeed coming, Improvements to other score screen items coming.

Neat. I always suspected they'd be going in this direction. That said I do think the game could have lived through payed hero updates, despite so many folks being worried about it. Though the free model does give them a bit more freedom in doing that. I suppose it's a non-issue now.

Side Note: Was does Jeff Kaplan always sound like he's about to break down in tears?

[Seerow]

Developer update: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKG8Yx6F7uc

TL;DW: Future Heroes and Maps to be free, More audio options incoming, Killfeed coming, Improvements to other score screen items coming.

I'm curious how long development will continue without selling heroes/maps or a sub fee. Like the money to keep making new heroes/maps has to come from somewhere.

[ChaosOS]

I'm curious how long development will continue without selling heroes/maps or a sub fee. Like the money to keep making new heroes/maps has to come from somewhere.

Skins most likely.

[ChaosOS]

http://us.battle.net/overwatch/en/blog/20008200/overwatch-closed-beta-back-in-action-february-9-2-3-2016

Beta starts back up Feb 9th, with 2 new maps, a new game mode, balance changes, progression system, and more!

[ChaosOS]

BETA ONLINE! Invites are going out as we speak, check your battle.net accounts! (Emails tend to be delayed a bit)

Patch notes: http://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20742184292

[Legoshrimp]

It seems like I am in (it is letting me DL it at least.)

[ChaosOS]

I also got in!

[AgentPaper]

Welcome to the club! Just downloaded and checked the patch notes. Huge changes to Bastion and Torbjorn, will be interesting to see how it all plays out but the changes look promising.

Unhappy to see Reinhardt's ultimate nerfed so heavily, especially when it already felt pretty hard to hit people with it already. The damage nerf I can understand, though. That said, with way ultimates charge up passively instead of when you take damage now means that Reinhardt (who would before be using his shield and thus not taking or dealing a ton of damage usually) can use his ultimate more often, so perhaps this way you won't feel like you have to get so much out of every use compared to before (where if you didn't wipe 3+ enemies with it, felt like you'd wasted your ult).

[ChaosOS]

The other change is you can turn while casting, so if people are trying to juke you can ensure the hit

[AgentPaper]

The other change is you can turn while casting, so if people are trying to juke you can ensure the hit

Sure, and that's nice, but not being able to turn was never really a big deal. The ability casts quickly enough that by the time your opponents can react, they're probably already stunned. It does lessen the pain a bit by letting you turn to hit someone who would have been in your arc pre-nerf though.

[ChaosOS]

PATCH NOTES!

http://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20742334760

TL;DR

Bastion and Torbjorn Nerfs

D.Va buffs

Small Mei buff

Voice line spam nerfed

Bug/exploit fixes

[ChaosOS]

Although I realize that nobody is actually in the beta, a round of balance changes was patched in today: http://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20742644653

[AgentPaper]

I'm still in, and concerned about the nerfs to Lucio and Genji. Lucio I can accept was probably a bit strong, but this nerf seems to over-do it a bit. Genji I felt was already in a good place, so even less sure about that, but will be interested to see how things shake out.

[ChaosOS]

Genji was proving to be overly strong when paired with Orb of Harmony, which is why he ate a nerf. I think mitigating his need for orb of harmony by shifting some of his HP to shields would be a good buff, since right now a lot of Genji's power comes from his strong harass-disengage-heal plan that's enabled by the orb of harmony regen

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Yet Another MOBA... really, Blizzard? LOL wasn't enough for you?

Pass. For all the many and varied flaws inherent in the MOBA genre that wasn't addressed and apparently seen as 'features' rather than 'glaring problems'. Eh, maybe it's just the genre itself that is flawed. I don't care anymore.

[AgentPaper]

Yet Another MOBA... really, Blizzard? LOL wasn't enough for you?

Pass. For all the many and varied flaws inherent in the MOBA genre that wasn't addressed and apparently seen as 'features' rather than 'glaring problems'. Eh, maybe it's just the genre itself that is flawed. I don't care anymore.

Overwatch isn't a MOBA, it's a first-person shooter. A closer parallel would be Team Fortress 2, though it does borrow a few MOBA elements, namely the large (and planned to grow in the future) roster of heroes, the specific roles of each hero (though the roles are not the same ones as in a MOBA), and of course the idea of an "ultimate" ability, which in this case you charge up over the course of the game (basically a long cooldown that you can affect by playing better).

The parallels are much stronger with TF2, though, with short, objective-focused matches between two teams. Even the objectives themselves are similar, with payload, capture point, and king of the hill being very similar to how they work in TF2. And of course stuff like Torbjorn's Turret working a lot like the Engineer's (though aside from that the two are quite different) and more vague comparisons like Zarya/Heavy, Pharah/Soldier, Junkrat/Demoman, Tracer/Scout, etc.

[ChaosOS]

Yet Another MOBA... really, Blizzard? LOL wasn't enough for you?

Pass. For all the many and varied flaws inherent in the MOBA genre that wasn't addressed and apparently seen as 'features' rather than 'glaring problems'. Eh, maybe it's just the genre itself that is flawed. I don't care anymore.

Not only is Overwatch blatantly not a MOBA, it's an FPS, but Riot games makes LoL, Blizzard's MOBA is Heroes of the Storm. The large roster of characters is similar to any other class-based shooter, and the ultimate abilities part is no different from TF2's medic having Ubercharge

[The_Jackal]

Overwatch isn't a MOBA, it's a first-person shooter. A closer parallel would be Team Fortress 2, though it does borrow a few MOBA elements, namely the large (and planned to grow in the future) roster of heroes, the specific roles of each hero (though the roles are not the same ones as in a MOBA), and of course the idea of an "ultimate" ability, which in this case you charge up over the course of the game (basically a long cooldown that you can affect by playing better).

The parallels are much stronger with TF2, though, with short, objective-focused matches between two teams. Even the objectives themselves are similar, with payload, capture point, and king of the hill being very similar to how they work in TF2. And of course stuff like Torbjorn's Turret working a lot like the Engineer's (though aside from that the two are quite different) and more vague comparisons like Zarya/Heavy, Pharah/Soldier, Junkrat/Demoman, Tracer/Scout, etc.

I believe he's thinking of Heroes of the Storm. Which is a MOBA. At any rate, you can't really blame Blizzard for wanting to recapture the genre that they made possible (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplayer_online_battle_arena). I'm not a MOBA fan either, my opinion is that it's a dumbed-down RTS, but clearly appealing to the lowest common denominator is a profitable enterprise.

[ChaosOS]

Release info and Open Beta: http://us.battle.net/overwatch/en/blog/20055970 and http://us.battle.net/overwatch/en/blog/20055973/overwatch%E2%84%A2-arrives-may-24-3-7-2016

TL;DR Releases May 24th, Preorder beta May 3rd and 4th, straight up Open Beta May 5th-9th. Progress will be reset at end of open beta. Both include consoles (XBox One and PS4)

[chainer1216]

So I just preordered the game for PS4, I'd rather have it on PC, but my desktop is junk. Anyone else going to be on PlayStation?

[NeoVid]

Overwatch isn't a MOBA, it's a first-person shooter. A closer parallel would be Team Fortress 2, though it does borrow a few MOBA elements, namely the large (and planned to grow in the future) roster of heroes, the specific roles of each hero (though the roles are not the same ones as in a MOBA), and of course the idea of an "ultimate" ability, which in this case you charge up over the course of the game (basically a long cooldown that you can affect by playing better).


The FPS/MOBA hybrid idea got my attention from the start, because I'm still hoping for something that will be able to take the place of one of my absolute favorite unsuccessful games, Super Monday Night Combat. I haven't been keeping up with Overwatch's development as much as I hoped, despite an attempt to get into the beta. If TF2 is the best comparison, that's good and bad to me... TF2's one of my most played games ever, but I was hoping for something more unusual than another shooter with unique character types.

I'm told there will be a free weekend around launch? If that's true, I can do something crazy and let actually playing it decide my opinion.

[Legoshrimp]

I'm told there will be a free weekend around launch? If that's true, I can do something crazy and let actually playing it decide my opinion.

Don't be silly, Join the hivemind.

[ChaosOS]

The FPS/MOBA hybrid idea got my attention from the start, because I'm still hoping for something that will be able to take the place of one of my absolute favorite unsuccessful games, Super Monday Night Combat. I haven't been keeping up with Overwatch's development as much as I hoped, despite an attempt to get into the beta. If TF2 is the best comparison, that's good and bad to me... TF2's one of my most played games ever, but I was hoping for something more unusual than another shooter with unique character types.

I'm told there will be a free weekend around launch? If that's true, I can do something crazy and let actually playing it decide my opinion.

Open beta is May 5th-9th, progress will be wiped clean for launch. For those of us that have preordered we get early access May 3rd and 4th

[Legoshrimp]

Beta keys for the beta period before launch are being sent out. For sure owners of the origins edition get an extra key. So I will just post mine here.

Extra key for beta:
5156790547631871954729528

[Ionbound]

Beta keys for the beta period before launch are being sent out. For sure owners of the origins edition get an extra key. So I will just post mine here.

Extra key for beta:
5156790547631871954729528

And claimed by me.

[Olinser]

The FPS/MOBA hybrid idea got my attention from the start, because I'm still hoping for something that will be able to take the place of one of my absolute favorite unsuccessful games, Super Monday Night Combat. I haven't been keeping up with Overwatch's development as much as I hoped, despite an attempt to get into the beta. If TF2 is the best comparison, that's good and bad to me... TF2's one of my most played games ever, but I was hoping for something more unusual than another shooter with unique character types.

I'm told there will be a free weekend around launch? If that's true, I can do something crazy and let actually playing it decide my opinion.

If you're looking for a FPS/MOBA hybrid I've heard Paragon is supposed to be pretty good, but it's still in closed beta.

[AgentPaper]

Probably best to do key giveaways using PMs.

[Legoshrimp]

If you're looking for a FPS/MOBA hybrid I've heard Paragon is supposed to be pretty good, but it's still in closed beta.
I have heard some good things about battleborn, but it isn't out yet. The main thing I have heard about paragon is it has a pay to win equipment system which is annoying. My information is mostly from watching total biscuit.


Probably best to do key giveaways using PMs.
Maybe but that requires multiple steps and I am lazy.

[ChaosOS]

Added shorts and comics to the OP

[NeoVid]

Just spent most of the day playing the beta. It's an amazingly well done game, though I sort of wish that so much of it wasn't obviously inspired/ripped off from TF2 and SMNC... but since those are my two most played Steam games, that's a really weak complaint. Say what you will about Blizzard, but they're really, really good at making their own renditions of successful games.

[The_Jackal]

Just spent most of the day playing the beta. It's an amazingly well done game, though I sort of wish that so much of it wasn't obviously inspired/ripped off from TF2 and SMNC... but since those are my two most played Steam games, that's a really weak complaint. Say what you will about Blizzard, but they're really, really good at making their own renditions of successful games.

Game development has always been about adaptation and iteration. You can't copyright or patent game mechanics, and we're all really lucky that you can't. Otherwise, Id Software's patent on the 3d FPS would be running out this year. Sure, there's no lack of derivative games, but some of the best and most successful games have had large payloads of borrowing in them.

[AgentPaper]

So, since there's going to be an increasing number of us, especially in a few days once the open beta starts, I think it's about time we start keeping a list of battletags for those who want to group up.

I'll start with mine: AgentPaper#1193

[Legoshrimp]

I was going to say something about it being potentially annoying if chaosOS wasn't up for the task/paying attention anymore, but I checked the first post and it is updated with all of the new stuff anyway. So he probably will be able to update the first post.

Mine is legoshrimp#1722

AgentPaper#1193
legoshrimp#1722


Is there any reason for regions?

[Ionbound]

Mine is Firedaemon#1486

[Manticoran]

I was going to say something about it being potentially annoying if chaosOS wasn't up for the task/paying attention anymore, but I checked the first post and it is updated with all of the new stuff anyway. So he probably will be able to update the first post.

Mine is legoshrimp#1722

AgentPaper#1193
legoshrimp#1722


Is there any reason for regions?

Latency I'd assume. Is anyone else having difficulties figuring out how Zarya works? Almost everyone else, I can see how they work and be like "Oh ok, they work like this", but Zarya I just can't get to do damage.

[chainer1216]

Latency I'd assume. Is anyone else having difficulties figuring out how Zarya works? Almost everyone else, I can see how they work and be like "Oh ok, they work like this", but Zarya I just can't get to do damage.

You need to predict when you or an ally in LoS is about to get shot and throw up a shield, as it absorbs damage it ups yours, when she's charged up she can burn people down pretty quickly.

[Draken]

Add in Draken#1736 to the lineup.

[The_Jackal]

TheJackal#1499

Also, I have a spare beta key. PM me, first responder gets it.

[NeoVid]

NeoVid#1862 here.

As much fun as I'm having with Overwatch, it looks like it'll be a while before I actually get the game. With my budget and principles, I'm not likely to buy it before it hits a price that competes with the $20 I paid for TF2 back in the day. If how long it took before Reaper of Souls went on sale is any indication, I'll be waiting a long time.


Game development has always been about adaptation and iteration. You can't copyright or patent game mechanics, and we're all really lucky that you can't. Otherwise, Id Software's patent on the 3d FPS would be running out this year. Sure, there's no lack of derivative games, but some of the best and most successful games have had large payloads of borrowing in them.

Heh heh, borrowing Payload.

Anyway, I was honestly saying that Blizzard are some of the best at making derivative games. Look at the success they got with their slight tweaking of Everquest transplanted into their own IP. I'm just annoyed that some of the inspirations seem so blatant. One of the tanks being an erudite gorilla in glasses who even has a name that ends with 'ston?' Even if that's a total coincidence, it would get them in trouble if it was originally from a game anyone remembered. The impression just gets stronger the more I play. I picked Genji for the first time yesterday, and as soon as I'd tested him out, I said, "Wait, this is Captain Spark."

Now, excuse me, posting here is delaying my playing more Overwatch.

[The_Jackal]

NeoVid#1862 here.

As much fun as I'm having with Overwatch, it looks like it'll be a while before I actually get the game. With my budget and principles, I'm not likely to buy it before it hits a price that competes with the $20 I paid for TF2 back in the day. If how long it took before Reaper of Souls went on sale is any indication, I'll be waiting a long time.

With respect, I think that's a very unfair comparison to make. TF2 is a fine game, but it's not nearly as polished and pretty as Overwatch. Overwatch has 21 different characters to TF2's 9, it launches with 12 maps compared to TF2's original 6. TF2 launched with 3 game modes, Overwatch has 4. And the amount of other stuff like skins, sprays, emotes, etc are all greater than what TF2 had when it cost a $20. Now if you're on a budget, I can respect that you need to be selective about where your money goes, but I don't think the argument that Overwatch is overpriced (heh heh) is one that has a good deal of evidence backing it up.



Heh heh, borrowing Payload.

Anyway, I was honestly saying that Blizzard are some of the best at making derivative games. Look at the success they got with their slight tweaking of Everquest transplanted into their own IP. I'm just annoyed that some of the inspirations seem so blatant. One of the tanks being an erudite gorilla in glasses who even has a name that ends with 'ston?' Even if that's a total coincidence, it would get them in trouble if it was originally from a game anyone remembered. The impression just gets stronger the more I play. I picked Genji for the first time yesterday, and as soon as I'd tested him out, I said, "Wait, this is Captain Spark."

Now, excuse me, posting here is delaying my playing more Overwatch.

I played EQ. I liked it a lot. But I think that calling WoW a slight tweak really undersells the level of effort and polish they put into the game. Having never played SMNC, I can't speak to the similarities their game has to it, but I am the kind of person who cares a great deal about polished art direction and graphics, and man, Overwatch delivers that in spades.

[Legoshrimp]

I played EQ. I liked it a lot. But I think that calling WoW a slight tweak really undersells the level of effort and polish they put into the game. Having never played SMNC, I can't speak to the similarities their game has to it, but I am the kind of person who cares a great deal about polished art direction and graphics, and man, Overwatch delivers that in spades.

I never played SMNC either, but from what I have heard it is a lot more mobalike then overwatch. I think the idea of characters is similar though. If you have been paying any attention to battleborn I have heard that that is pretty close to SMNC in terms of gameplay.
Where SMNC and battleborn are shooter mobas(PvE aspects). While overwatch and tf2 are regular shooters (no PvE s=aspects)with heroes.

[chainer1216]

So I've been playing the beta on ps4, its a lot of fun but I've been having this issue where my crosshair's movement has a delay of about half a second on them. It makes it VERY hard to actually shoot anyone.

[Yora]

I have not been playing online shoters in ages and this one looks a lot more like my type than Battlefield, CoD, or even Battlefront. And I know about two dozen people who are getting it for PS4. And now I have the opportunity to not be half a year late when all my friends are already pros and starting to play less. :smalltongue:

But seriously. This price is total BS! 70€?! Seriously?

At 50€ I would be unhappy but accept it quietly. But 70€ for console in Europe is twice as much as $40 for PC in America. Really, total BS. :smallfurious:

[The_Jackal]

So I've been playing the beta on ps4, its a lot of fun but I've been having this issue where my crosshair's movement has a delay of about half a second on them. It makes it VERY hard to actually shoot anyone.

That's network latency. Were are you located?

[chainer1216]

That's network latency. Were are you located?

Near Chicago, IL, USA, so it shouldn't be that bad, its not like I live in the middle of nowhere.

For now I've been focusing on characters that don't require twitch reflexes, torbjorn, mercy, D.Via, so its not a total loss.

Oh my ps4 username is chainer1216

[Delusion]

Played about 4 hours today and D.va and Mercy are really solidifying their places as my fave heroes. Which is a good thing as support and tank seem to be the least popular roles as usual.

I got three triple kills with D.va ultimate as well. All three were panic ultimates when my Mech had less than 50 hp left. I'm sure this will become rarer when everyone is a newb.

[ChaosOS]

Note on D.Va: The 1s delay between going to 0 HP and ejection you can self destruct (if it's up)

[AgentPaper]

I got three triple kills with D.va ultimate as well. All three were panic ultimates when my Mech had less than 50 hp left. I'm sure this will become rarer when everyone is a newb.

As someone who got a lot of kills with D.va and her ult right after she first came out, yeah, yeah it becomes much rarer. At this point, I don't use her ult to try and get kills at all, but just to force the other team to retreat and cede ground, usually on a control point or ahead of the cart. Every once in a while I'll get a kill but it's the exception, not the rule.

Not to say it's a bad ult, though. It has a huge effect radius and is incredible for clearing out entrenched positions.

[Psyren]

Now that the open beta is going on I plan to give this a try, but honestly I'm a bit more attracted to Battleborn, at least from a character standpoint.

Do either of them have PvE horde modes? Or is the PvE limited to PvP-but-with-bots?

[ChaosOS]

Overwatch does not (currently) have any true PvE modes unlike Battleborn. Developers have expressed some interest but that's a ways away.

[huttj509]

Overwatch does not (currently) have any true PvE modes unlike Battleborn. Developers have expressed some interest but that's a ways away.

The intro movie felt a bit odd.

"Fellow members of Overwatch, the world is in danger, we must band together...to shoot each other repeatedly"

[Yuki Akuma]

As someone who got a lot of kills with D.va and her ult right after she first came out, yeah, yeah it becomes much rarer. At this point, I don't use her ult to try and get kills at all, but just to force the other team to retreat and cede ground, usually on a control point or ahead of the cart. Every once in a while I'll get a kill but it's the exception, not the rule.

Not to say it's a bad ult, though. It has a huge effect radius and is incredible for clearing out entrenched positions.

In my experience, it's great for sneak attacks by boosting over walls and such.

I also managed to kill an entire team with it in one of the hold-the-points maps, which was fun.

[ChaosOS]

The intro movie felt a bit odd.

"Fellow members of Overwatch, the world is in danger, we must band together...to shoot each other repeatedly"

Yeah the gameplay and story segregation is pretty big; At the very least all the maps have their own plot, even if it is divorced from the fact that there's 6 winstons running around trying to push/defend the payload.

[Delusion]

So. I dropped my mouse sensitivity by a third. And I actually started hitting things that weren't within point blank range. This is a weird feeling.

[The_Jackal]

So. I dropped my mouse sensitivity by a third. And I actually started hitting things that weren't within point blank range. This is a weird feeling.

That's a FPS truism. Accuracy is contingent on properly-tuned mouse movement. Me, I go very low sensitivity, and move my arm a lot. I have friends who claim to be really bad at FPS games, then I see their ergonomic setup, and I know exactly why.

[huttj509]

That's a FPS truism. Accuracy is contingent on properly-tuned mouse movement. Me, I go very low sensitivity, and move my arm a lot. I have friends who claim to be really bad at FPS games, then I see their ergonomic setup, and I know exactly why.

I think I might need to tune my sensitivity higher (my default is really low), so that my wrist twitches can more easily follow foe movement.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

I wish I was better at Widowmaker. I LOVE the sniper playstyle, but I'm awful at tracking targets for headshots. I'm in a similar boat with Hanzo, but at least I'm good at utilizing his Ultimate effectively.

Basically, I wanted to play a high-value target eliminator. I wanted to be a good Tracer, or Widowmaker, or Hanzo, or Genji. Instead, I'm apparently a VERY solid Winston and Reinhardt. Not what I was expecting. :-P

[Manticoran]

I wish I was better at Widowmaker. I LOVE the sniper playstyle, but I'm awful at tracking targets for headshots. I'm in a similar boat with Hanzo, but at least I'm good at utilizing his Ultimate effectively.

Basically, I wanted to play a high-value target eliminator. I wanted to be a good Tracer, or Widowmaker, or Hanzo, or Genji. Instead, I'm apparently a VERY solid Winston and Reinhardt. Not what I was expecting. :-P

...Why did you expect not to be a good Heavy, Djinn?

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

...Why did you expect not to be a good Heavy, Djinn?

Well, I'm a bad Bastion, so... :-P

But yeah. I'm the Overwatch tank line, I think. Some day I'll try D.VA when I can get cwcriner to play anything else, and that other tank, whatever her name is.

As per the old TF2 philosophy, "Everyone behind Djinn! We're going in!"

[AgentPaper]

I wish I was better at Widowmaker. I LOVE the sniper playstyle, but I'm awful at tracking targets for headshots. I'm in a similar boat with Hanzo, but at least I'm good at utilizing his Ultimate effectively.

Basically, I wanted to play a high-value target eliminator. I wanted to be a good Tracer, or Widowmaker, or Hanzo, or Genji. Instead, I'm apparently a VERY solid Winston and Reinhardt. Not what I was expecting. :-P

Being super good at getting headshots as Hanzo or Widomaker isn't actually all that vital. It's nice, but getting bodyshots is more than enough most of the time.

As for Tracer and Genji, what's really important as a flanker is not twitch reflexes or aim at all, but map sense. Being able to figure out how the battle is flowing, and attacking at exactly the worst spot for your enemy and with the right timing as well. Simply running in and trying to kill everyone will just get you killed and not help your team out at all, even if you are a very good player. But distract an enemy at the right time, or attack an enemy that is distracted by your teammates coming in the front door, and you can do massive damage even if your aim isn't particularly good.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Being super good at getting headshots as Hanzo or Widomaker isn't actually all that vital. It's nice, but getting bodyshots is more than enough most of the time.

As for Tracer and Genji, what's really important as a flanker is not twitch reflexes or aim at all, but map sense. Being able to figure out how the battle is flowing, and attacking at exactly the worst spot for your enemy and with the right timing as well. Simply running in and trying to kill everyone will just get you killed and not help your team out at all, even if you are a very good player. But distract an enemy at the right time, or attack an enemy that is distracted by your teammates coming in the front door, and you can do massive damage even if your aim isn't particularly good.

I know these things in theory, and I'm even decent at most of them. My problem is that although I can be a great distraction is Tracer, I don't actually get any damage done, no matter how good my timing is. It's definitely my twitch reflexes throwing me off.

This is why I'm a better Hanzo then Widowmaker as well: having to hold down the button kind of calms me down, and gives me more time to line up my shot.

[Ionbound]

Gee, I forgot how much fun Bastion is to play, and how good I am at him. Also apparently a decent Genji, just through sheer virtue of map knowledge like paper was saying. Turns out knowing how the map flows is good for both of them.

[AgentPaper]

Gee, I forgot how much fun Bastion is to play, and how good I am at him. Also apparently a decent Genji, just through sheer virtue of map knowledge like paper was saying. Turns out knowing how the map flows is good for both of them.

Yeah, Bastion is going to be a sleeper hit in mid to high level games, I think. He's obviously good in low level games where players don't know how to deal with him, but most people seem to just abandon him as soon as the enemy team wises up to his shenanigans. But I've also played against some really good Bastions who were constantly moving around and always seemed to be set up in exactly the worst possible spot at the worst possible time. Constantly moving around, moving forwards and backwards with the battle line, never in the same place twice so even if you figured out a good way to come at him in one spot, by the time you go to execute your plan he's already somewhere else.

Even then, he wasn't actually killing people too much, maybe about as many kills as you'd expect from any other high-damage character (S:76, Pharah, etc), but just his presence on the battlefield forced our team to do a lot of things it normally wouldn't, and made it really hard to advance forwards without constantly having to check all our corners to make sure we're not running into a wall of hot lead.

To be honest, I'm not even completely sure what exactly he was doing for most of the game, and perhaps our team could have handled it better, but just that one match makes me think that there's a lot of untapped potential in Bastion that most of the community hasn't realized yet.

[Artanis]

I am increasingly convinced that it's faster to switch modes and back than it is to reload in turret mode as Bastion.

[Ionbound]

You know, thinking about it, I'm pretty sure you're right.

[Psyren]

Played some matches tonight with friends. I'm apparently a pretty solid Bastion as well, even saving a match single-handed with his ultimate once. (Protip, don't cluster up in the objective when a tank turns the corner.)

I really like Pharah's high-flying playstyle but her rockets hit like wet firecrackers. She badly needs a buff.

[huttj509]

Played some matches tonight with friends. I'm apparently a pretty solid Bastion as well, even saving a match single-handed with his ultimate once. (Protip, don't cluster up in the objective when a tank turns the corner.)

I really like Pharah's high-flying playstyle but her rockets hit like wet firecrackers. She badly needs a buff.

It's tricky with the aoe. Direct hits do decent damage, near misses do less.

[Ionbound]

Yeah. If you have really good rocket aim, Pharah does a ton of damage. But her launcher is like the Direct Hit from TF2: Not a big splash radius, and far more effective if you get a clean shot.

[Psyren]

Which is damn near impossible in this game because the characters have lightyears' more mobility than anything in TF2. What I mean is that her splash damage needs a buff.

Looking online, I see lots of complaints about Bastion's damage, it wouldn't surprise me if he ends up eating a nerf. This makes me sad.

[Ionbound]

Man, Bastion has eaten nerf after nerf after nerf...I remember when he used to have a shield.

[Psyren]

Man, Bastion has eaten nerf after nerf after nerf...I remember when he used to have a shield.

Given that the vast majority of the objectives, at least in the beta, have been "stay here and defend the thing" - a class that is literally designed to be good at planting in one place and defending the thing is going to be perceived as very strong. So Blizzard is probably going to keep getting those complaints as long as the mission types allow Bastion to shine.

[Delusion]

From what I have heard in the tournaments in closed beta Bastion has seen barely any play as coordinated team can take him down so easily. He is very much a pub stomper so I don't think he needs any nerfs.

I also don't see Pharah needing any buffs either. She is already scary good in hands of someone who can position her properly and hit those rockets.

[Artanis]

*stuff about Pharah's damage*
My experience with Pharah's damage has been...weird. Her rockets are quite good at shooing away Turbodorfs and Bastions from a safe distance, and her splash damage makes her decent at clearing out Symmetra nests as well (I think her knockback grenade also takes out Symmetra turrets, but don't quote me on that evidently not). In a brawl though, I've actually found that flying into the sky to shoot rockets down on people often works worse than hanging out on a ledge or something and just aiming at feet because somebody coming out of a door isn't moving around as much - and thus is easier to tag - compared to somebody in a big open space. One rocket splashing near the legs chunks down enemies more than six rockets that completely whiff against a guy who zigged instead of zagged.

There are obviously exceptions, of course (e.g. Jump Jet + Ult + Knockback into death-pit = hilariously satisfying PotG :smalltongue: ), that's just what I've found while playing Pharah.

...then again, I'm not exactly Top 3 NA, so there's a good chance I'm completely wrong :smalltongue:



Looking online, I see lots of complaints about Bastion's damage, it wouldn't surprise me if he ends up eating a nerf. This makes me sad.
People on BNet are complaining about not being able to beat an opponent who has played for literally four or five times as long as the one day they've had the game? I am shocked, truly shocked!

:smalltongue:


DISCLAIMER: I'm not saying that Pharah or Bastion are perfectly balanced and don't need changed, I'm mostly just adding my 2 cents on the former and mocking the Blizzard forums via the latter.

[ChaosOS]

Bastion is fine, as you learn the game (Heroes AND maps) he becomes a lot easier to answer

Pharah also is reliant on good aim and game knowledge, she's eaten some nerfs in the beta previously that moved her from general purpose assault to a bit more specialized, but that's fine she's still plenty effective.

With regards to her E, it does no damage so it does not clear out a symmetra nest. Symmetra turrets have something like 10 HP, so it's really not hard for any splash to clear out an entire nest. Winston in particular is an excellent counter to Symmetra nests as he can just wave his gun around and all the turrets die.

[Psyren]

People on BNet are complaining about not being able to beat an opponent who has played for literally four or five times as long as the one day they've had the game? I am shocked, truly shocked!

:smalltongue:


DISCLAIMER: I'm not saying that Pharah or Bastion are perfectly balanced and don't need changed, I'm mostly just adding my 2 cents on the former and mocking the Blizzard forums via the latter.

I actually wasn't talking about Blizzard forums at all - in fact, I haven't even been to the official Overwatch fora yet. I meant places like Facebook and Reddit are full of Bastion complaints. And given that those are the venues Blizzard actually reads, we may end up with a problem on our hands :smalltongue::smallbiggrin:

[ChaosOS]

Jeff Kaplan (Head of the project) already mentioned before open beta started he was expecting a massive flood of complaints about Torbjorn and Bastion, since that's consistently what happens whenever people start playing the game

[mythmonster2]

I've been pretty hype about the game since I saw a few of my favorite Youtubers start playing it, and my hype has been totally confirmed by the open beta. I can't play tanks worth a damn, but I am having fun with every other type of character. I seem to lean towards defense/support, though, with Zenyatta, Torbjorn, Lucio, and Bastion being my favorites in roughly that order.

Contributing to the discussion, it's a shame there's so many people complaining about Bastion online. He definitely has his counters (snipers, especially), and occupies a necessary role in the game. I'm also surprised that people would complain about Torbjorn, since he seems like a pretty basic turret man. The range on his turret always manages to catch me off-guard, despite the play time I've put into him, but it's not overwhelming or anything.

[Delusion]

Playing more Mercy and I feel like I am getting decent hang of her. When I started out I did nice amount of healing but not that many defensive assist and almost no offensive assists. Now I get something like 5-10 offensive assists and 10-15 defensive assists most games.

I never get the super uber 4 man ress play of the games though since I tend to use res on just 1 people if I think it might change the outcome of the fight.

Edit: Speaking of Bastion. Bastion + Reinhardt + Mercy = pure murder against uncordinated teams.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Contributing to the discussion, it's a shame there's so many people complaining about Bastion online. He definitely has his counters (snipers, especially), and occupies a necessary role in the game. I'm also surprised that people would complain about Torbjorn, since he seems like a pretty basic turret man. The range on his turret always manages to catch me off-guard, despite the play time I've put into him, but it's not overwhelming or anything.

I'm all for Bastions being common: Reinhardt doesn't care much, and they definitely can't dodge his shoulder charge when deployed. It's SO MUCH FUN picking up turrets and slamming them into walls for instant-kills.

[huttj509]

Playing more Mercy and I feel like I am getting decent hang of her. When I started out I did nice amount of healing but not that many defensive assist and almost no offensive assists. Now I get something like 5-10 offensive assists and 10-15 defensive assists most games.

I never get the super uber 4 man ress play of the games though since I tend to use res on just 1 people if I think it might change the outcome of the fight.

Edit: Speaking of Bastion. Bastion + Reinhardt + Mercy = pure murder against uncordinated teams.

I love standing in front of Bastion with my shield. Similar with turrets.

[AgentPaper]

Really, I think the biggest stumbling block for new players facing Bastion isn't even so much figuring out the counters, as it is realizing that you don't actually need to counter him. I mean, sure if your team is having trouble, switch to someone who can handle him better, but you can also just shoot him, and in many situations, that's all that's actually needed. You obviously don't want to sit in front of him and trade shots, but if you see him distracted, or you can duck in and out of cover, or especially if there's a shield providing a short window of opportunity, putting even just a bit of damage on him can be enough for someone else to finish him off, or just force him to retreat giving you space to move forwards.

90% of the time that I play against Bastion and our team loses, it's not because Bastion is killing everyone, but because most to all of my teammates suddenly become blind to anything other than "kill bastion" and then get upset when trying to charge through his 5 teammates to get behind bastion ends up with them dead.

So in short, it's not actually about learning to kill a Bastion. It's about learning how to deal with a Bastion while also dealing with the rest of the enemy team and working alongside your own, that takes a while for new players to figure out.

[huttj509]

Games played: 26
Games won: 4


Guys, I don't think I'm good at this...

[AgentPaper]

Games played: 26
Games won: 4


Guys, I don't think I'm good at this...

30 games isn't really enough to get good at the game. If you want, you could tell us a few heroes you enjoy and we could give you some tips to help you improve.

[Artanis]

With regards to her E, it does no damage so it does not clear out a symmetra nest. Symmetra turrets have something like 10 HP, so it's really not hard for any splash to clear out an entire nest. Winston in particular is an excellent counter to Symmetra nests as he can just wave his gun around and all the turrets die.
Yeah, my first Pharah game after posting that, I made a point of trying it. It didn't work. So I've edited my prior post to get rid of it :smallredface:

[Psyren]

So in short, it's not actually about learning to kill a Bastion. It's about learning how to deal with a Bastion while also dealing with the rest of the enemy team and working alongside your own, that takes a while for new players to figure out.

That's still arguably a problem though if one character can dictate the entire opposing team's approach like that. Which it does, not because Bastion itself is overpowered, but because the nature of most Overwatch missions (all?) are "defend X", and classes that are good at plopping down and defending X are particularly well-suited to those missions.

I do have other classes I need to try though...

[ChaosOS]

I mean yes defense classes are good on defense? Snipers can more easily find perches and cover entrances, junkrat/mei spam makes things real risky with their ability to use Shift/E respectively to split up a push, and then Torbjorn and Bastion do entrenched fighting. Even with all that the offensive classes are generally favored due to their mobility in the pro scene.

[Yuki Akuma]

Overwatch has a "Pro scene"?

It's not even out yet!

[Tono]

Its not even out yet, and the 'pro scene' already has drama and people [being accused of] using cheats.

[boomwolf]

Bastion doesn't need a nerf, he needs a tweak.
The entranced form needs to be a little less rapey, and the recon form a bit better (faster maybe?) to make nests less of a murderhouse and running less of a punishment.


That said, had the pleasure of playing 76 and forming a bastion/holt/76/lucio roadblock. It's freaking unmovable. No amount of dakka could shift us, nobody could get behind us or charge at us without dying horribly, and nothing could deliver damage nearly fast enough to beat the interlocked AoE heals behind the barrier.

Overall, this beta convinced me to buy the game. I just hope content updates will be frequent, as the hero pool is a but small for my tastes. (spoiled by LoL)

[Landis963]

Overwatch is downloading for me now. As a complete and utter noob when it comes to TF2-style gameplay and DotA-style hero setups, who should I start practicing and why? Note that I've seen all of Stylosa's YouTube guides published as of last week, 5/1/2016. I believe this is Winston, Mei, Tracer, Zarya, Widowmaker, Hanzo, Symmetra, and a couple others whom I forget.

[Psyren]

I tried a bunch more classes last night.

- I'm a big fan of 76 (ak The Mario for the folks coming over from CoD and other shooters) and love the fact that he can be backup heals in a pinch - both himself and his team. But his ultimate is kinda weaksauce. Yeah it's great for nailing tricky targets like a midair Pharah or a particularly coked-out Tracer, but most of the time I find that if you really need the aimbot you probably shouldn't be playing him to begin with. What I'd like is if it gave you an infinite clip for the duration or something.

- I'm surprisingly good with Reaper, especially the fact that his dash move makes him invincible for an emergency escape. Something sneaks up on you and poof, off you go. And teleporting right behind a fortified enemy position before firing off your Ult is immensely satisfying, as well as teleporting up onto an unsuspecting sniper's perch and nailing them in the back of the head.

- I'm not so good with any of the tank classes except D.va. The others have painfully short range. Detonating her mech right in the middle of some enemies is always satisfying though.

- So far, all of the snipers have been disappointing, as well as all of the healers aside from Lucio. Symmetra is probably the hardest healer I've ever played.


Its not even out yet, and the 'pro scene' already has drama and people [being accused of] using cheats.

Given that Blizzard has such a hard time against even something continuous like outright botting I wouldn't be surprised. In a PvP-only game like this it's going to be even nastier.

(At least, I think it's PvP-only? There sure doesn't seem to be any single-player aside from "go shoot bots for a bit, call us when you're ready to play the real game.")


Overwatch is downloading for me now. As a complete and utter noob when it comes to TF2-style gameplay and DotA-style hero setups, who should I start practicing and why? Note that I've seen all of Stylosa's YouTube guides published as of last week, 5/1/2016. I believe this is Winston, Mei, Tracer, Zarya, Widowmaker, Hanzo, Symmetra, and a couple others whom I forget.

If you've played any shooters at all I recommend Soldier 76 to start. He can sprint, he can jump, he can heal himself, he's got an assault rifle and some rockets. He can do well on just about any team setup.

Alternatively, if you're a big fan of the turret sections in shooter games, give Bastion a spin.

If you want to play support, definitely go Lucio as you don't have to aim any of his heals, just be near your team and pump up the volume. He can also fight while healing and has the longest range.

[Ionbound]

Speaking of supports, how would people feel if Mercy lost her pistol and had her RMB replaced with a Stargate-style staff blast? And/or getting an E in the form of some kind of knockback/survivability enhancer? I've been playing her a lot, and she feels just sooo fragile and really hard to defend herself with, so I was wondering what people would think of some changes.

[ChaosOS]

The TL;DR of mercy is that while an E for a short range survivability option would be nice, she's still crazy survivable in coordinated teams that know how to play with your Guardian Angel. Her rez also has some pretty high potential as a straight up counter to any AOE wombo comboes.

Also, with regards to her pistol, it's actually pretty scary simply due to the massive clip size. If you're a decent shot with it you can pretty easily finish off people that are expecting the free kill on a solo mercy.

[Artanis]

Overwatch is downloading for me now. As a complete and utter noob when it comes to TF2-style gameplay and DotA-style hero setups, who should I start practicing and why? Note that I've seen all of Stylosa's YouTube guides published as of last week, 5/1/2016. I believe this is Winston, Mei, Tracer, Zarya, Widowmaker, Hanzo, Symmetra, and a couple others whom I forget.

I have noticed that, for most heroes, Blizzard has done a good job living up to their philosophy of "easy to learn, hard to master". There are exceptions, of course (hello Tracer!), but even a bad player can do something useful with most heroes. A good Mercy, for example, can make her team nigh-unkillable, but even a bad Mercy who's just shooting her heal beam at her buddies is pretty handy.

Personally, of the heroes I've played a decent amount (which is nowhere NEAR all of them), I've found Bastion and Reinhardt to be the simplest. Finding the best place for Bastion can be surprisingly tricky at times, but I'm living proof that it's pretty hard to screw up "left click red outlines" no matter where you've pitched your tent. Similarly, while a good Reinhardt can really disrupt the enemy, "point at them and hold right-click" will make your team happy :smallwink:

[ChaosOS]

In terms of super high skill cap characters I'd place Widow, Tracer, and Genji at the top simply for requiring good aim and being mobile and squishy. As for easy characters I'd suggest Winston, Soldier 76, Bastion and Lucio to give you one character for each role that you don't have to worry too much about. as you just straight up learn the game.

[Dhavaer]

- So far, all of the snipers have been disappointing, as well as all of the healers aside from Lucio. Symmetra is probably the hardest healer I've ever played.

I don't understand why Symmetra is classed as support and not defence. She's really not any kind of healer, she's a builder like Torbjorn.

[Psyren]

Tracer's not that difficult - I mean, you have an instant get-out-of-screw-up button!

I find Zarya really disappointing. Everyone immediately focus-fires her fat arse and her shield isn't even close to Reinhardt's in effectiveness.


I don't understand why Symmetra is classed as support and not defence. She's really not any kind of healer, she's a builder like Torbjorn.

Agreed. I mean yeah, she can hand out shields like candy but a healer she ain't. Freaking 76 is better at healing groups than she is!

[ChaosOS]

Zarya functions pretty differently from Reinhardt, Zarya is much more of a bruiser with the ability to protect one individual teammate. For reference, her self shield is 200 while her E shields for 400.

As to Symmetra, shortly before beta started her shields were nerfed from 50 to 25. Back when the game was announced, she shielded for 100. The steady drop in her shielding output has definitely transitioned her from support to Defense, but the devs still haven't reclassified her.

[Psyren]

Zarya functions pretty differently from Reinhardt, Zarya is much more of a bruiser with the ability to protect one individual teammate. For reference, her self shield is 200 while her E shields for 400.

Great, so she's another misclassified character. At least now I know why she has all the durability of a large pringle. :smallannoyed:

[Manticoran]

Great, so she's another misclassified character. At least now I know why she has all the durability of a large pringle. :smallannoyed:

...Not really? She's somewhere between... Honestly all of the classes, but Tank is as good as any of a place to put her, since she has 400 hp, 200 of which regens by itself, and 200 you get on demand in addition to that.

[ChaosOS]

A properly managed Zarya is a true terror. The issue I've seen is people assume that Roadhog and Zarya can do the "Soak all the bullets" strat like Rein and Winston can with their shields, while that's simply not true. D.Va at least seems to be understood as a harassing skirmisher, but people want Roadhog and Zarya to try and do the same things as rein/winston. Instead, play Zarya and Roadhog to their small group potential, using their abilities to leverage the advantage in smaller 2v2/3v3 fights. Both do very high damage at reasonable range compared to Rein/Winston, and can solo people a lot more easily and quickly than the other two tanks.

[Psyren]

...Not really? She's somewhere between... Honestly all of the classes, but Tank is as good as any of a place to put her, since she has 400 hp, 200 of which regens by itself, and 200 you get on demand in addition to that.

It's not that she's not tough in a one-on-one fight, it's that she's big and slow so she gets focused almost instantly. Which you'd expect for a class listed as a "tank", except she can't take it nearly as well as the others. Reinhardt can take the entire enemy team pounding on him (at least from the front) and Winston's bubble works well too, plus he's fast enough to close quickly. Even D.va feels tougher if only because an overestimation on her part just leaves you down a (potentially lethal) mech and you're probably taking at least one baddie down with you before they break it, if not another after.


A properly managed Zarya is a true terror. The issue I've seen is people assume that Roadhog and Zarya can do the "Soak all the bullets" strat like Rein and Winston can with their shields, while that's simply not true. D.Va at least seems to be understood as a harassing skirmisher, but people want Roadhog and Zarya to try and do the same things as rein/winston. Instead, play Zarya and Roadhog to their small group potential, using their abilities to leverage the advantage in smaller 2v2/3v3 fights. Both do very high damage at reasonable range compared to Rein/Winston, and can solo people a lot more easily and quickly than the other two tanks.

I'll have to take your word for it, as I've never really seen a properly managed Zarya. I do admit that I like her grenade launcher a lot, but that weapon belongs on an assault character with a lot more mobility or tricks. (Of course, at that point I'm just describing a fatter Junkrat, so :smalltongue:)

[ChaosOS]

A Zarya that manages her cooldowns well and thus stays at high/max energy levels does ~150 damage per second with just the left click, and can hold that for 5 seconds. Additionally, Zarya's shields count as barriers for the purpose of interactions like negating a D.Va ult or preventing roadhog hooks

[Landis963]

Thank you to everyone who recommended Lucio for me to start with, I've been having a blast with him vs. AIs (except for one round on Gibraltar where everyone was bugging out and lagging everywhere. Amazingly I didn't die once). He might just become my main, he's so fun.

[huttj509]

Well, tonight went better. Not sure what I was doing too differently, but it was working.

First, turned my sensitivity from 15 to 25, which probably helped.

Main thing was my character choices were a lot more informed by the map, and I wasn't afraid to switch heroes for different objectives, or if a particular hero just wasn't working.

For example, started as Symmetra on Hanamura defense, which simply wasn't working (I had bad nest placement, shoulda gone for point A instead of trying to be clever behind the right door of the first chokepoint, most of my turrets couldn't hit anything there), swapped to Bastion to defend point B and was mopping them up.

Attacking Hanamura had a solid attack on point A (as Pharah), but then the defense held in the courtyard, so I flanked around the side with the jump. Just started capping the point, and while 3 fell back and wiped me out, that let my team push forward more, and I continued to flank the side and harass the defenders as they held in the objective.

Had a great game as Symmetra on the egyptian level, where for the last point I had a solid nest on the right side, and was shielding our defenders as they watched the front. Someone tries to dash in? Zappo. Someone tries to flank? Zappo. The nest was set up well that when you came through the door you could swivel to some of the turrets, but the others would be in your back. Got my "7 beams at once" achievement that match.

Attacking King's Row I took D.Va so I could fly over the wall and put direct pressure on the first capture point (I like going behind the enemy lines and *making* then pay attention to me to let my team advance). Clinched the A objective with an explosion that took out 4 of their team (and me, I was less behind the corner than I thought). Proceeded to have the most time on objective as I escorted it forward, using my shield to soak enemy fire as we advanced. Also had a great time when Reinheart was sitting there shielding with insufficient team support. Buddy, I'm D.Va, I can do this aaaaall day. Buddabuddabudda.

Heck, I even had a half-decent game as Hanzo, and I suck with snipers (my twitch accuracy is not great).

Either I just got a pity "ok, we'll place you with people similar skill level," got lucky, or the tweaking of sensitivity *really* helped.

[Psyren]

I had a few great games as Genji and Zenyatta. I think I'm turning Japanese, I really think so...

My one regret is that healers don't seem able to get "Play Of The Game" no matter how much of a boss job you do saving everyone's behind.


Thank you to everyone who recommended Lucio for me to start with, I've been having a blast with him vs. AIs (except for one round on Gibraltar where everyone was bugging out and lagging everywhere. Amazingly I didn't die once). He might just become my main, he's so fun.

"Let's break it DOWN!!!"
*shields everyone in the objective*

I always pull off some crazy wallruns with Lucio, especially in the Egypt map. And I like healers that can fight back while healing, so Mercy is out.

[Landis963]

My one regret is that healers don't seem able to get "Play Of The Game" no matter how much of a boss job you do saving everyone's behind.

Well, this one time, on Illios, I knocked Roadhog off the cliff then blew up Reaper and Zenyatta... And there was a Bastion kill in there somewhere, IIRC. I'll try to find the highlight later.

[Artanis]

My life is now complete, there is nothing more for me to accomplish. Tonight, I punched a Tracer to death.

AS BASTION.

[Draken]

Tonight I killed a Hanzo with Mercy's blaster. It was cathartic.

Team still lost because we were attacking and had one Hanzo and two widowmakers and a lot of tunnel vision.

[AgentPaper]

I don't think anything beats slapping Pharah out of the sky with a Fire Strike from Reinhardt. I've only done it once or twice, but damn does it feel satisfying.

[Yuki Akuma]

I'll tell you something that feels more satisfying than swatting Pharah out of the air with Reinhardt.

Shutting down Hanzo's ultimate with D.Va's shield right as he fires it. Dear lord that's satisfying.

[Delusion]

Speaking of supports, how would people feel if Mercy lost her pistol and had her RMB replaced with a Stargate-style staff blast? And/or getting an E in the form of some kind of knockback/survivability enhancer? I've been playing her a lot, and she feels just sooo fragile and really hard to defend herself with, so I was wondering what people would think of some changes.

I don't really like the idea. Properly learning to use her damage boost is fun and boosting other people's damage helps them feel awesome and helping other people feel awesome is why I play supports in the first place. Also her pistol is surprisingly not horribad when you learn to aim it properly. (I still don't hit very well with it though >.>)

Also if she was any less fragile I think she would be OP considering how big force multiplier she is. Her ult is already a huge game changer. Imagine how strong the res would be if Mercy was any harder to focus down.

[Ionbound]

I had a few great games as Genji and Zenyatta. I think I'm turning Japanese, I really think so...

My one regret is that healers don't seem able to get "Play Of The Game" no matter how much of a boss job you do saving everyone's behind.



"Let's break it DOWN!!!"
*shields everyone in the objective*

I always pull off some crazy wallruns with Lucio, especially in the Egypt map. And I like healers that can fight back while healing, so Mercy is out.

I got one last night at Mercy. Admittedly, it wasn't a super intense game, and we did lose, but it was nice to get some recognition for running around keeping everyone alive under some really withering fire.

[Antonok]

The open beta seems to have been extended by a day (http://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20743735540) (ends the 10th, 10am PST instead of today).

Regarding Bastion: I think he needs 2 small tweaks. His range, and his cannon's spread. He's just way too accurate for the damage he can dish out considering I've been on both ends of him out sniping Widowmaker at long range.

Another tweak I'd like to see: Being able to get a small window of immunity to her slow/freeze. Kinda stupid if you get hit by her attack your pretty much screwed since once the freeze wears off, it immediately starts building up again.

[Landis963]

The open beta seems to have been extended by a day (http://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20743735540) (ends the 10th, 10am PST instead of today).

Regarding Bastion: I think he needs 2 small tweaks. His range, and his cannon's spread. He's just way too accurate for the damage he can dish out considering I've been on both ends of him out sniping Widowmaker at long range.

Another tweak I'd like to see: Being able to get a small window of immunity to her slow/freeze. Kinda stupid if you get hit by her attack your pretty much screwed since once the freeze wears off, it immediately starts building up again.

About that: will people who have pre-purchased the game still be able to play, or is there a lag time between the end of the open beta and release day?

[Antonok]

About that: will people who have pre-purchased the game still be able to play, or is there a lag time between the end of the open beta and release day?

Doubt it since they plan on doing a wipe before launch.

[ChaosOS]

There is dead time from the 10th through the 24th

[Psyren]

Free beta extended till the 10th (tomorrow.) Going to play some more tonight! I've been wanting to get some more McRee practice in.

Seeing myself in "Play of the Game" is more rewarding than the hypothetical first word of my future child. Damn you Blizzard.

[Draken]

Free beta extended till the 10th (tomorrow.) Going to play some more tonight! I've been wanting to get some more McRee practice in.

Seeing myself in "Play of the Game" is more rewarding than the hypothetical first word of my future child. Damn you Blizzard.

I'm hardly ever completely happy to get Play of the Game because more often than not it includes something embarrassing that I don't really want other players to see.

Like, sure. I got a triple kill with a RIP-Tire that delayed the enemy team capturing the first point for a significant period of time. I also drove the damn thing into both walls around a door for about half of its duration.

[chainer1216]

So I went into this game thinking I'd be a tank player, I watched videos of all the characters and each tank looked really interesting to me, and I generally favor tough and methodical characters, on top of that I LOVE D.Via, everything about her character and play style is attractive to me.

Well it turns out that I suck as all the tanks, ESPECIALLY D.Via, I put some real time and effort in on getting better but I'm still only passable. Then one game comes around and I see that we desperately need someone to take out a bastion/rienhart/torbjorn combo that was chewing up our team, so I switch to widowmaker and I fail, so I turn to the character I've had the least interest in, just because I knew he could get the job done, I switched to junkrat.

My life has changed, junkrat is love, junkrat is life, junkrat is both bae AND waifu.

I went from "at least I'm not a hindrance." To "I'm putting this team on my back!" I have yet to find a situation where junkrat is less useful than another hero, he's very effective on both offence and defence, I can stall advances and break up defensive set ups. and there doesn't seem to be a hard counter to him, pherra comes the closest thanks to her vertical maneuverability.

[Manticoran]

So I went into this game thinking I'd be a tank player, I watched videos of all the characters and each tank looked really interesting to me, and I generally favor tough and methodical characters, on top of that I LOVE D.Via, everything about her character and play style is attractive to me.

Well it turns out that I suck as all the tanks, ESPECIALLY D.Via, I put some real time and effort in on getting better but I'm still only passable. Then one game comes around and I see that we desperately need someone to take out a bastion/rienhart/torbjorn combo that was chewing up our team, so I switch to widowmaker and I fail, so I turn to the character I've had the least interest in, just because I knew he could get the job done, I switched to junkrat.

My life has changed, junkrat is love, junkrat is life, junkrat is both bae AND waifu.

I went from "at least I'm not a hindrance." To "I'm putting this team on my back!" I have yet to find a situation where junkrat is less useful than another hero, he's very effective on both offence and defence, I can stall advances and break up defensive set ups. and there doesn't seem to be a hard counter to him, pherra comes the closest thanks to her vertical maneuverability.

A good Pharah, Tracer, Reaper, or Genji can murder you pretty hard. They all have the mobility to avoid your usual trap/fire lanes, and either kill you fast enough that you can't respond much in return(Reaper/Genji), or are so mobile you have a really difficult time even hitting them(Pharah/Tracer). And I'm pretty much a Tracer/Junkrat main at this point myself. XD

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Hanzo / Reinhardt for life. <3

Also, I really don't understand this, but increasing my gameplay resolution has increased my accuracy on literally every character to the point where I can now play offense characters and snipers. The aspect ratio is the same, so this shouldn't actually make a difference.

Still, it means I can play Widowmaker and Tracer, and try to learn Genji, so...

[Rosstin]

Ah, I'm so bummed it's over TT_TT

[Ionbound]

I just started trying to play Tracer today...And realized I was kinda good at her. Also, got Huntress Widowmaker out of my last lootbox. TT_TT

[NeoVid]

I played the beta fanatically, though not nearly as fanatically as some people (seriously, on the first day of Open Beta, I was in a game with a level 44), and I honestly don't see a whole lot that should be changed by release time. The biggest ones:

Better choices for Play of the Game, dammit! Bastion killing an entire team as they come out of the spawn at the start of the match is definitely not a game-changing play. Torbjorn lying dead by his turret as it wipes the enemy team probably doesn't deserve PotG, and as much as I like Junkrat, taking out a couple of people at random with his ult usually doesn't, either. A PotG should be something that actually matters to the match results, like this (http://glintgala.tumblr.com/post/144070671925/sythina-skybreath-thegreatersunbro#notes), or moments that are actually cool enough (https://gfycat.com/VengefulOddballBird) that they should be shown to everyone. (https://gfycat.com/FamousIdolizedAmazonparrot)

I've got a much less important complaint about the loot boxes. I once got three duplicate items in one loot crate, and getting dupe drops only gives you 20% of the unlock's value in credits. That can make for some really depressing "rewards." Either no duplicates, or better consolation prizes.

When it comes to game balance, I'm not enough of an expert to say much, but there are a few that stand out, starting with, of course, Bastion. He needs damage dropoff at range or something... I know he's already been nerfed nonstop and isn't likely to show up in competitive play, but he really shouldn't be able to win sniper duels at extreme range. Zenyatta can be oneshotted by a body shot from Widow, which is probably an issue... and oddly, I ended up with a bit of a problem using McCree. This game's heavily built around counterpicks, but McCree's the one character I can't picture a situation where you'd go, "This is the character we need right now!"

[Yuki Akuma]

You try programming a way to determine play of the game based on what actually turned the tide of the fight. "Most kills" or "most damage blocked" or "most fire gained" (I think it's probably that last one) or whatever is far easier than "took out two of Junkrat's ultis like clay pigeons" or "snuck up behind a Bastion emplacement and murdered them before they could react" or "erected an ice wall to block a tank Bastion for just long enough to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat" or however many awesome scenarios you can think of.

I kinda wish they could program it to look for coolness, but that's a rather subjective quality! Wait for the AIs if you want that sort of thing.

Bastion does have damage drop off at range. He deals less than half damage after twenty-five meters in sentry mode. He just has insane fire rate and is way too accurate. And, of course, his critical point is in his back in sentry mode, so a sniper can't really one-shot him if he knows where they are.

[Psyren]

You try programming a way to determine play of the game based on what actually turned the tide of the fight. "Most kills" or "most damage blocked" or "most fire gained" (I think it's probably that last one) or whatever is far easier than "took out two of Junkrat's ultis like clay pigeons" or "snuck up behind a Bastion emplacement and murdered them before they could react" or "erected an ice wall to block a tank Bastion for just long enough to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat" or however many awesome scenarios you can think of.

I kinda wish they could program it to look for coolness, but that's a rather subjective quality! Wait for the AIs if you want that sort of thing.

They're already tracking lots of other helpful metrics like damage blocked in X time, overall healing done, healing done as a percentage of incoming damage, uptime of various abilities, time spent on fire etc. All you really need to add variety to Play of the Game is to track spikes in these metrics and choose from among those spikes. So you would catch something like, say, Zenyatta popping Transcendence to save his entire team from a huge enemy push at the objective because he's keeping everyone alive against massive amounts of incoming damage. Or a Mercy Mass Rez inside a contested objective followed by lots of damage output from her team would almost certainly be a real Play of the Game.

By making it only be big splashy multikills, not only are they focusing too much on classes that are designed for bodycount like Bastion, Hanzo and Junkrat, they're also encouraging bad teamwork. You get people trying to run off from their team and get big killstreaks so they're featured in the match promo, even if that ends up costing the rest of their team the overall win. That guy gets his reward, everyone else gets to eat poo.

[NeoVid]

Huh, I hadn't even thought of how it discourages people from playing tanks and supports... and keeping people from playing those has never been a problem for any online game ever. I would love it if those times Zarya or Mei's ults turned an entire enemy team into helpless target practice got the PotG for Zarya and Mei instead of whoever happened to be around to shoot at the sitting ducks.

...Though I'll admit that wasn't a problem in any of the games I've been in, as my teams used moments like those as a chance to retreat...

[Psyren]

Yeah, that's a perfect example - Mei freezing the entire enemy team is probably going to be a game-altering play, but it's the Reaper or McRee who runs around in the ice picking them off who'll ultimately get all the credit from the system.

[Ionbound]

This is why I think there needs to be a specific shared PotG thing for stuff like Zarya Ult and Mei Ult. Like, the two characters fist-bumping or something, though perhaps specific interactions for certain characters like Mercy and Rein or something.

[Orhinge]

Now i'm imagining people arguing about PoTG balance, "no fair that it takes 300 healing to equal one kill, too op/up"

But yeah, they are gathering the data, so theoretically you could try and balance it for more interesting PotG rather than friggin' Bastion in a corner shredding everyone who comes in the door AGAIN, though i'll admit Junkrat's bomb has not gotten old for me yet. I suspect ult combos, while cool, might be tricky to implement detection for.

I will say, as far as Mei is concerned, i've seen her make PotG a decent few times. If she blindsides your team she basically only needs their attention elsewhere while she picks you all off. For a "defense" hero, once you know the map well, she makes a spectacular offensive hero with useful escape options, frankly all she's missing is mobility, which map knowledge mitigates somewhat.

Least, that was my experience, could be a skill disparity there, and I suspect more use of the chat function would render this tactic far less useful.

[Delusion]

If Mei freezes the entire enemy team and another character like Pharah kills them all and gets the PotG then does it matter which one gets it? Anyone watching the clip will see that it was the Mei ult that set up the situation.

And I have gotten a PotG as Mercy. A big mass res on top of the objective. THough only once in like 9 hours of playing Mercy, but then again I don't usually save my ult for those big moments, instead using it the second I think one extra alive person might be important. My damage boost has played a part in few of the Plays of the Games of my friends though and that feels good enough for me.

[Yuki Akuma]

And I have gotten a PotG as Mercy. A big mass res on top of the objective. THough only once in like 9 hours of playing Mercy, but then again I don't usually save my ult for those big moments, instead using it the second I think one extra alive person might be important. My damage boost has played a part in few of the Plays of the Games of my friends though and that feels good enough for me.

And this is the reason I think it's based on fire, not kills. It's just that a kill from full health to zero is 100 fire and if you kill three or four people that way, well...

I would love to see two-player PotGs though. That would be awesome. Quick, let's petition Blizzard to make that happen

[Psyren]

What I'd really love is Play of the Game added to other titles, like Warframe.

...I think I'll crosspost to the Warframe thread :smallbiggrin:

[Artanis]

And this is the reason I think it's based on fire, not kills. It's just that a kill from full health to zero is 100 fire and if you kill three or four people that way, well...
Agreed. There's no way it's based purely on kills because all the Mercy PotGs I've seen didn't involve her shooting her pistol at all, much less killing something with it. I always thought that it was based on some scoring system to give PotG to whatever got the most points in a given timespan, and Fire seems like a very likely candidate for said points.


I would love to see two-player PotGs though. That would be awesome. Quick, let's petition Blizzard to make that happen
On this one, I disagree. Computers are incredibly literal. The more "obvious" something seems to us, the harder it is to get a computer to do it. Frankly, I think that enabling two-person PotGs would do little more than add problems technical headaches and piss off even more people. You think people are salty over seeing yet ANOTHER f***ing Bastion left-click his way to PotG? Imagine how salty people will get when a Zarya and a Mei ult the same people at the same time and accomplish basically nothing, but still get PotG over a clutch Mercy rez and a quad-kill Reaper ult :smallwink:

[The_Jackal]

I don't think making Player of the Game more reflective of map objectives would really serve to make the game any more fun. The game already boasts many features which encourage players to play the objectives, including objective time medals, the bonus for winning, and the fact that that's where the action is anyway. The purpose of the Player of the Game isn't to reward players for good play, but merely to show high-action cinematic moments of play.

The idea that altering the conditions under which PotG is awarded will somehow discourage narcissistic players from trying to bring off stunts to post on imgur is, in my opinion, a fallacy. Instead, let's just embrace that PotG should just show moments which are cool. If that means that we're going to see a lot of Rip-Tire team kills in the PotG cam, so be it. They're spectacular, and that spectacle was what brought us to play the game to begin with.

Bottom line, I think the PotG system does need to be tweaked, but not with so much of an eye towards making it 'fair' (it never will be), but with an eye toward making it show cool and fun moments. Watching a dead Torbjorn roll on the ground while his turret goes on a killstreak is the kind of thing I'd just assume not happen.

If anything, I'd like to see PotG weight towards events that happen in the vicinity of the objective. Other than that, just make sure we all see something cool. I don't care if I'm never the one who's getting the nod.

[ChaosOS]

POTG I'm 90% sure works strictly off points, and there's a heavy bonus on earning points if you do it on top of the objective.

[Tono]

Also, if the PotG is for something weird, like getting the kill that shutdown someone else's kill streak, itll say it in the character splash. Its not exactly easy to see though.

[Artanis]

I don't think making Player of the Game more reflective of map objectives would really serve to make the game any more fun. The game already boasts many features which encourage players to play the objectives, including objective time medals, the bonus for winning, and the fact that that's where the action is anyway. The purpose of the Player of the Game isn't to reward players for good play, but merely to show high-action cinematic moments of play.

The idea that altering the conditions under which PotG is awarded will somehow discourage narcissistic players from trying to bring off stunts to post on imgur is, in my opinion, a fallacy. Instead, let's just embrace that PotG should just show moments which are cool. If that means that we're going to see a lot of Rip-Tire team kills in the PotG cam, so be it. They're spectacular, and that spectacle was what brought us to play the game to begin with.

Bottom line, I think the PotG system does need to be tweaked, but not with so much of an eye towards making it 'fair' (it never will be), but with an eye toward making it show cool and fun moments. Watching a dead Torbjorn roll on the ground while his turret goes on a killstreak is the kind of thing I'd just assume not happen.

If anything, I'd like to see PotG weight towards events that happen in the vicinity of the objective. Other than that, just make sure we all see something cool. I don't care if I'm never the one who's getting the nod.
I agree with this post, especially the part I bolded. I spent half an hour on my last post trying to find a good way to say that it will never be 100% "fair" before finally having to give up due to the risk of putting my foot so far in my mouth that I could taste my knee. :smallsmile:

[Psyren]

"It will never be fair" is a piss-poor excuse not to try. It's weighted too heavily in favor of classes that can rack up bodycount right now, whether that bodycount ultimately helps the mission succeed or not.

If they're not going to fix it, they should at least have the name reflect what it actually is - "Multikill of the game" or "Killstreak of the game" or something else.

[Legoshrimp]

Bottom line, I think the PotG system does need to be tweaked, but not with so much of an eye towards making it 'fair' (it never will be), but with an eye toward making it show cool and fun moments. Watching a dead Torbjorn roll on the ground while his turret goes on a killstreak is the kind of thing I'd just assume not happen.

If anything, I'd like to see PotG weight towards events that happen in the vicinity of the objective. Other than that, just make sure we all see something cool. I don't care if I'm never the one who's getting the nod.

Honestly most of the time torbjorn gets play of the game like that is hilarious. I do normally play with full groups of people so that probably effects it somewhat.

If you are on defense weighting it for the objective would mean epic defense that don't let the enemies even get near the point are worse for POTG which doesn't make sense.


So people keep saying they want characters that don't really do damage to get PotG more. Can you give me some examples of the PotGs you would want to see? I am not really able to envision them. The only one I am really thinking of is mercy with really good ults, but she gets PotG for that some, maybe she should get them a bit more though.

[Manticoran]

Honestly most of the time torbjorn gets play of the game like that is hilarious. I do normally play with full groups of people so that probably effects it somewhat.

If you are on defense weighting it for the objective would mean epic defense that don't let the enemies even get near the point are worse for POTG which doesn't make sense.


So people keep saying they want characters that don't really do damage to get PotG more. Can you give me some examples of the PotGs you would want to see? I am not really able to envision them. The only one I am really thinking of is mercy with really good ults, but she gets PotG for that some, maybe she should get them a bit more though.

Something like "Damage prevented" for a Lucio Overheal, or something. An issue with a lot of this is that mostly these guys don't... DO really flashy plays. A Symmetra might win the game for her team by locking down a room, forcing the enemies through a different choke point, while quickly teleporting the couple of guys who die on her team back in for a consistent numbers advantage, but... No where in there are you going to get Play of the Game. Lucio might keep everyone alive, be annoying as hell to kill, and make everyone on the enemy team 20% tougher the entire game, causing you to get overwhelmed a small bit at a time.... Or by hitting E with a speed boost at the beginning, overrunning your turret defenses and leaving there 7 minutes remaining to defend the payload that you can't quite hold them off for...

But none of that SHOULD get Play of the Game, because it's not fun to watch. If it's not fun to watch, I don't really CARE if it was the game winning play most of the time, honestly.

[The_Jackal]

"It will never be fair" is a piss-poor excuse not to try. It's weighted too heavily in favor of classes that can rack up bodycount right now, whether that bodycount ultimately helps the mission succeed or not.

If they're not going to fix it, they should at least have the name reflect what it actually is - "Multikill of the game" or "Killstreak of the game" or something else.

First of all, I doubt that Blizzard isn't trying. But regardless, my point is that making unspectacular by effective plays into 'Plays of the Game' wouldn't really be any more gratifying or fun than the current system. Some heroes simply don't have the toolkit to get PotG easily, and tweaking that would either a) create a lot of bland and uninteresting PotG footage, or b) risk immense homogenization among ultimates.

I would much rather have focus put in 1) Making sure PotG are full of cool action and in 2) properly balancing classes, maps and game modes than trying to enforce some kind of PotG parity system, which must necessarily always be subjective and can never satisfy everyone.

[AgentPaper]

"It will never be fair" is a piss-poor excuse not to try. It's weighted too heavily in favor of classes that can rack up bodycount right now, whether that bodycount ultimately helps the mission succeed or not.

If they're not going to fix it, they should at least have the name reflect what it actually is - "Multikill of the game" or "Killstreak of the game" or something else.

"It can't be done" is a good reason not to do something. Trying to factor in all the kinds of things you're talking about isn't really possible without some kind of serious AI that I don't think even exists yet. Much better to have it competently and consistently show off cool moments where someone gets a bunch of kills all at once. And I say this as someone who consistently plays support/tank heroes. As much as it may be true that me healing everyone at a key moment or covering an assault with my shield might be more instrumental to winning the game rather than that one time Junkrat blew up 3 random enemies who where nowhere near the action, I would rather see the latter as the PotG since watching Lucio sit in a corner taking potshots while his aura does its work, or watching Reinhardt slowly walk forward in front of the cart is not fun or exciting. Explosions, even if they are pointless and not as helpful as they could have been, are at least explosions, and watching them blow up a bunch of hapless fools is always going to be more satisfying.

[huttj509]

I've seen some good PotG picks. One game near the end of things as soon as it showed my team's Pharah I paused, then thought "oooooh, I know the play."

Nepal(?) temple capturing the exposed zone (with ledges round and such, no cover on zone). Pharah leaps up from behind a wall, unloads her Q (while the enemy was distracted by another attacker, might have been me, I died right round then), and kills 3-4 of their team while the others scurry for what cover they can find. That play completely turned the game around, and let us take and hold the point for the win.

[Psyren]

I would much rather have focus put in 1) Making sure PotG are full of cool action and in 2) properly balancing classes, maps and game modes than trying to enforce some kind of PotG parity system, which must necessarily always be subjective and can never satisfy everyone.

I don't expect it to satisfy *everyone*, but perfect shouldn't be the enemy of better either. Only rewarding one playstyle above all others (shoot all the things) is not conducive to the long-term health of the game. Overwatch is built around balanced team compositions, and that includes healers and tanks; they deserve as much recognition for the group success as any other role. It's the vanilla/BC WoW problem all over again - if you make the game less fun for those types, they get used less, which makes the pick-up game that much worse. And the pick-up game is where the growth and accessibility lie.


"It can't be done" is a good reason not to do something. Trying to factor in all the kinds of things you're talking about isn't really possible without some kind of serious AI that I don't think even exists yet. Much better to have it competently and consistently show off cool moments where someone gets a bunch of kills all at once. And I say this as someone who consistently plays support/tank heroes. As much as it may be true that me healing everyone at a key moment or covering an assault with my shield might be more instrumental to winning the game rather than that one time Junkrat blew up 3 random enemies who where nowhere near the action, I would rather see the latter as the PotG since watching Lucio sit in a corner taking potshots while his aura does its work, or watching Reinhardt slowly walk forward in front of the cart is not fun or exciting. Explosions, even if they are pointless and not as helpful as they could have been, are at least explosions, and watching them blow up a bunch of hapless fools is always going to be more satisfying.

I never said anything about awarding PotG for "Lucio taking potshots while sitting in a corner" :smallconfused:

Instead, a massive pitched firefight on the objective, where Lucio or Zenyatta ult and negate a metric ton of incoming damage in one swoop, would simultaneously be (a) a game-changer, (b) easily tracked by the game, AND (c) exciting to watch.

Keep in mind also that PotG is where those shiny animations we're all trying to dig out of the lootboxes get shown off. If I play Lucio but can't ever see my animations because I'm actually playing him well and not trying to go rambo/lone wolf on the enemy, where would they show up?

[boomwolf]

Nope, sorry you are just wrong.

Supports and tanks can be vital to the team, they could even win games by themselves, but rarely they make a play worth WATCHING.

Watching a mercy doing a mass rez, or lucio blocking a ton of damage, despite it being potentially gamechanging moment and a blast to play, is not interesting at all to observe. and PotM is all about giving you that awesome moment of "dang, that was a good game", watching somebody heal or block a barrage of shots, even if it was you, just don't give you that feeling of watching sombody take down 4-5 guys a row, shutting down ults or doing other flashy moves.


PotM is not about what moment changed the game, because honestly no AI could figure that out with current tech, PotM is about the most flashy moments it could find, and support/tanks just don't often DO flashy moves. blocking shots, healing and giving shields is simply not flashy.

[Psyren]

Nope, sorry you are just wrong.

I continue to disagree, so we'll have to leave it there.

If Blizzard ends up tweaking it at some point, I look forward to the ensuing rage :smallamused:

[AgentPaper]

I continue to disagree, so we'll have to leave it there.

If Blizzard ends up tweaking it at some point, I look forward to the ensuing rage :smallamused:

Nobody is saying that supports or tanks getting PotG is a bad thing. If Blizzard can figure out a way to make it work while still having PotG be fun and exciting even just most of the time, then that'd be great. Nobody here is disagreeing with that.

The place where we disagree, is whether they should try to force PotGs for support and tank heroes even if that results in a lot of boring PotGs, just for the sake of having supports and tanks get PotG more often. You're acting like the match is a competition to do the coolest thing, and whoever gets PotG is the winner, which is really not what the PotG system is about. The point of the PotG is to highlight a cool and fun moment, like, "Hey, remember that time when Genji went nuts and took out half the enemy team? How cool was that!" not, "Ok, so we crunched the stats, and the person most responsible for winning this game was...Lucio!"

The kind of recognition you seem to be asking for from PotG is I think much better shown with the card/vote system already in place. And indeed, I see more often than not everyone throws their votes to the support and/or tank heroes most of the time, unless one of the other characters was truly spectacular.

And it's not like Support and Tank classes can't get PotG right now, either. Sure, it's less common, but it happens all the time, and the fact that it's rare only makes it more impressive and awesome when it does happen.

[Psyren]

The place where we disagree, is whether they should try to force PotGs for support and tank heroes even if that results in a lot of boring PotGs, just for the sake of having supports and tanks get PotG more often.

Well, I don't recall saying anything about wanting boring PotG's, so I guess we're on the same page then?


You're acting like the match is a competition to do the coolest thing, and whoever gets PotG is the winner, which is really not what the PotG system is about. The point of the PotG is to highlight a cool and fun moment, like, "Hey, remember that time when Genji went nuts and took out half the enemy team? How cool was that!" not, "Ok, so we crunched the stats, and the person most responsible for winning this game was...Lucio!"

Which implies that tanks and support can't have cool and fun moments, unless they do so by not tanking or supporting, which is flat wrong.


The kind of recognition you seem to be asking for from PotG is I think much better shown with the card/vote system already in place. And indeed, I see more often than not everyone throws their votes to the support and/or tank heroes most of the time, unless one of the other characters was truly spectacular.

And I'm happy for the vote card system. It doesn't do jack to show off the cosmetics which are the game's primary reward scheme, but sure, much better than nothing.

[AgentPaper]

Well, I don't recall saying anything about wanting boring PotG's, so I guess we're on the same page then?

You did though. You said "'It will never be fair' is a piss-poor excuse not to try.", and other things along those lines. The end result of trying to do something that can't be done is to do a bad job at it. Which in this case leads to a lot of boring PotGs of Lucio standing behind everyone shooting at whoever and not really killing anyone, or watch Mercy sit behind a corner healing someone she's not even looking at, because that's what the game looks like most of the time when you get a ton of healing. That's the kind of PotG you will get more often than not by valuing just straight healing done.


Which implies that tanks and support can't have cool and fun moments, unless they do so by not tanking or supporting, which is flat wrong.

I never said that, and didn't imply it either. In fact, I specifically pointed out that tanks and support do have cool and fun moments, and I've seen every hero in the game get PotG at least a few times. All of those times, however, is them either getting a bunch of kills or using an ult, just like any other class. Those are often cool and fun moments to have a PotG for.


And I'm happy for the vote card system. It doesn't do jack to show off the cosmetics which are the game's primary reward scheme, but sure, much better than nothing.

The PotG cutscenes are just one small part of the reward scheme, and making them show up more often to stroke the ego of support players doesn't sound like a good reason to make everyone sit though a bunch of boring PotGs. In fact, that's more likely to make people resent the players of support heroes and make fun of them for their "crummy PotG" than anything else, especially if you tried to make support PotGs as common as any other role.

[Artanis]

The PotG cutscenes are just one small part of the reward scheme, and making them show up more often to stroke the ego of support players doesn't sound like a good reason to make everyone sit though a bunch of boring PotGs. In fact, that's more likely to make people resent the players of support heroes and make fun of them for their "crummy PotG" than anything else, especially if you tried to make support PotGs as common as any other role.

Agreed. The amount of resentment that a Bastion or Torbjorn generates by killing five people who are pushing a payload is nothing compared to the vitriol that would result from a Lucio racking up PotG score just from being in the vicinity of his team.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Nope, sorry you are just wrong.

Supports and tanks can be vital to the team, they could even win games by themselves, but rarely they make a play worth WATCHING.

Depends on how you define "worth watching." I think, for example, the Winston play I had the other day where I saw a Parah rise to altitude, predicted the ultimate, leaped into the fight, and shielded my team on the point could count as "flashy" or as the play of the game.

It would be more complicated, definitely, but I'd like to see the system built around a mix of healing, damage absorbed, damage dealt, headshots, in-combat markers (and in-combat with YOU markers), miss percentage, kills, and objectives, with the last one fairly low on the list.

Widowmaker taking three shots and getting three headshots on moving targets fighting low-health allies? Play of the game. Reinhardt charging in and absorbing a Parah ultimate for his team while four people are on the objective? Play of the game. Reaper tearing through four people single-handed? Play of the game. Mercy managing to keep a team fighting through a Bastion ult, then reviving the two guys who died to contest the point? Play of the game. Tracer drawing enough attention that the entire enemy team turns to her, letting them be slain by an incoming advance (done by checking the number of guys who fire at you)? Possible play of the game -- she's a distraction character, after all!

It's more complicated, but most of that stuff (healing, damage absorbed, damage dealt, headshot triggers, miss percentage, kills, objective contesting, etc) is already built into the game, so the overhead is fairly low, and line-of-sight and combat markers are really just a few quick variables to store at every frame.

I think you can easily build a MUCH more robust (obviously not perfect) system. Hell, with a bit of proximity and timing added in you could even tell when a Hanzo ultimate kills that 12-0 Bastion who has been sitting on the point mowing down everyone coming in only a second before his team enters the objective area. Play of the game? In certain games, YES. And everyone would know it.

[Psyren]

You did though. You said "'It will never be fair' is a piss-poor excuse not to try.", and other things along those lines.

Right, that is what I said. How in the name of Ra does that lead you to "boring PotGs?" :smallconfused:


The end result of trying to do something that can't be done is to do a bad job at it. Which in this case leads to a lot of boring PotGs of Lucio standing behind everyone shooting at whoever and not really killing anyone, or watch Mercy sit behind a corner healing someone she's not even looking at, because that's what the game looks like most of the time when you get a ton of healing. That's the kind of PotG you will get more often than not by valuing just straight healing done.

For healing to be big, there needs to be a lot of damage coming in that the healing is repairing. Which means an exciting firefight.


I never said that, and didn't imply it either. In fact, I specifically pointed out that tanks and support do have cool and fun moments, and I've seen every hero in the game get PotG at least a few times. All of those times, however, is them either getting a bunch of kills or using an ult, just like any other class. Those are often cool and fun moments to have a PotG for.

I've seen PotG for everyone too. But I've seen it far, far more for Bastion/Torbjorn/Reaper than I ever have for Lucio/Mercy/Reinhardt. For those players to get it usually requires them not doing their jobs, and that's a problem.


The PotG cutscenes are just one small part of the reward scheme, and making them show up more often to stroke the ego of support players doesn't sound like a good reason to make everyone sit though a bunch of boring PotGs. In fact, that's more likely to make people resent the players of support heroes and make fun of them for their "crummy PotG" than anything else, especially if you tried to make support PotGs as common as any other role.

See above - only a lack of imagination would mandate PotG for those classes having to be boring. I'd like to think Blizzard is more savvy/creative than that.



I think you can easily build a MUCH more robust (obviously not perfect) system. Hell, with a bit of proximity and timing added in you could even tell when a Hanzo ultimate kills that 12-0 Bastion who has been sitting on the point mowing down everyone coming in only a second before his team enters the objective area. Play of the game? In certain games, YES. And everyone would know it.

This too - or the Lucio/Zenyatta that makes the mass charge against that entrenched foe possible. Say, if your team is able to push onto the objective, and everyone on your team kills at least one person on theirs because of Lucio's barrier with nobody getting that big multikill/streak the PotG should default to him. And it shouldn't be difficult for the system to realize that, because it's already counting how much spike damage his ultimate absorbed at that moment.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

This too - or the Lucio/Zenyatta that makes the mass charge against that entrenched foe possible. Say, if your team is able to push onto the objective, and everyone on your team kills at least one person on theirs because of Lucio's barrier with nobody getting that big multikill/streak the PotG should default to him. And it shouldn't be difficult for the system to realize that, because it's already counting how much spike damage his ultimate absorbed at that moment.

I might go a step further and have highlights display a tally of damage absorbed or healing done in big text, just to really showcase a player's contribution. See a Reinhardt absorb 2000 damage and then lay down a three-man ult, but grab no kills? You still know how awesome he was. That Lucio delivering 400 healing and having his shield absorb 900 damage during a firefight while only killing one guy? Now you can SEE how much he's saving his team in real-time.

[Delusion]

I kinda wish that assists would count towards eliminations. It would be fun having a chance at more than one (or well two with the objective time, but I tend to hover near the objective and not on top of it) as Mercy. It gets bit boring have just 1 gold medal everygame :P

[Gandariel]

Apparently 9.7 million people played the Overwatch beta.

Wow.

Also no, I'm not the slightest annoyed because they didn't release on Mac :P

[Delusion]

Apparently 9.7 million people played the Overwatch beta.

Wow.

Also no, I'm not the slightest annoyed because they didn't release on Mac :P

Thats 0.13% of the worlds total population. I think thats really impressive.

[Artanis]

Before I start this post, I want to make something absolutely clear: I do think that the PotG system could use some tweaks. Anybody who accuses me of arguing otherwise is absolutely wrong, because I do NOT think that it is perfect.


Now, with that out of the way...

The problem I have with many arguments in this thread is that they seem to assume a lot of common sense. A Lucio ult that blocks eleventy-three gajillion damage to help secure a contested point is obviously the deciding factor in a close-fought battle. That's just common sense. But computers don't do common sense. Computers don't do obvious. Computers don't do judgement calls. Computers do absolute number calculations, and the more factors that go into those calculations, the more things that are added in to get it closer to "common sense", the harder it is to get it to not utterly f*** it up.


To use a couple of Djinn's examples: (just as a note, I'm NOT using these to specifically contradict Djinn, it's just that he gave really good examples to use :smallwink: )

-Reinhardt charging in and absorbing a Parah ultimate for his team while four people are on the objective?
--What about the Bastion who killed the Pharah and three of her teammates afterwards, allowing him and Reinhardt's team to get enough control over the area to actually try to capture the point? Or the Reaper who then immediately killed off Pharah's targets single-handedly and captured the point for the win, making Reinhardt's and Bastion's plays meaningless in the grand scheme of things? Who, exactly, gets PotG: the guy who absorbed the ult, the guy who quadrakilled four high-health enemies while on the point, or the guy who took the last 50hp off of six people to secure the win? And more importantly, how exactly would one have the computer decide?

-Widowmaker taking three shots and getting three headshots on moving targets fighting low-health allies?
--Define exact numbers for "low health". Will you tell the computer to, say, consider <50% to be low health, in which case saving a single 299hp Roadhog is worth more than saving four teammates with a combined 300hp? Will you make a special case to factor in number of allies, total hp, and so on? And even if you do that, what about two headshots and four almost-but-not-quite-lethal bodyshots?

-Mercy managing to keep a team fighting through a Bastion ult, then reviving the two guys who died to contest the point?
--What about the Bastion who forced the Mercy ult and then immediately killed three more people, allowing his team to easily bludgeon the enemy back off the point anyways once his buddies respawned? Are you going to penalize the Bastion because Bastion (which seems to be a common sentiment), or are you going to penalize Mercy because the rez gained her team a whopping 4% on the scoreboard? How exactly would you have it define what numbers to use to decide between the two?


It's THESE sorts of situations that make me leery of just saying, "they should do X and Y and Z" without factoring in the work involved in getting computers to do what they really don't like to do, and the difficulty in getting it to satisfy everybody. It seems simple to us, but it is not simple, it is not easy, and the more factors you try to make it consider, the more likely it is to give BS PotGs that piss off everybody.


As a final note, say they do figure out how to do it. Say they do come up with a way to make the computer smart enough to actually do things right. What should they value when balancing out the numbers? Should mechanical skill go into it? Should a Bastion or Torbjorn be disqualified from getting PotG just because they require a lot less aiming than getting headshots with Widowmaker does? What about map knowledge? Should a Widowmaker be disqualified from getting PotG just because "find a random rooftop" is a lot easier than it is for Bastion or Torbjorn to find a spot to set up where they will actually be able to accomplish something without getting killed? How about situational awareness? Properly timing ults? Actually getting the kills?

[Psyren]

How exactly would one have the computer decide?

It doesn't have to be "exact." Just more equitable. To use your "eleventy-gajillion Lucio" example - the computer can recognize, even roughly, situations where his ultimate was impactful because it's already calculating % of incoming damage blocked by his barriers. In short, it knows how much damage would have gotten through without him.

For a Lucio PotG, I would use quantitative factors like:

- Were at least 3 players protected by his ult
- Did it happen on top of or very close to the objective/payload
- How much total damage did it absorb/how much damage would have gotten through without it
- Were at least 3 enemies contesting the objective when it was used

Combine all of those ingredients and you have a pretty good shot of snapshotting a pitched firefight, rather than a boring post-battle breather, all with no human judgment required. And of course, the Ult itself (also a dramatic moment) would be part of the footage. Again, these are all metrics they're already capturing, and more importantly, that computers can recognize, because they're quantitative.


As a final note, say they do figure out how to do it. Say they do come up with a way to make the computer smart enough to actually do things right. What should they value when balancing out the numbers? Should mechanical skill go into it? Should a Bastion or Torbjorn be disqualified from getting PotG just because they require a lot less aiming than getting headshots with Widowmaker does? What about map knowledge? Should a Widowmaker be disqualified from getting PotG just because "find a random rooftop" is a lot easier than it is for Bastion or Torbjorn to find a spot to set up where they will actually be able to accomplish something without getting killed? How about situational awareness? Properly timing ults? Actually getting the kills?

Pretty much all of that is qualitative, so obviously not. How are they deciding between Bastion and Tobjorn now? Whatever numbers they use to figure out can be applied here.

[Artanis]

It doesn't have to be "exact." Just more equitable. To use your "eleventy-gajillion Lucio" example - the computer can recognize, even roughly, situations where his ultimate was impactful because it's already calculating % of incoming damage blocked by his barriers. In short, it knows how much damage would have gotten through without him.

For a Lucio PotG, I would use quantitative factors like:

- Were at least 3 players protected by his ult
- Did it happen on top of or very close to the objective/payload
- How much total damage did it absorb/how much damage would have gotten through without it
- Were at least 3 enemies contesting the objective when it was used

Combine all of those ingredients and you have a pretty good shot of snapshotting a pitched firefight, rather than a boring post-battle breather, all with no human judgment required. And of course, the Ult itself (also a dramatic moment) would be part of the footage. Again, these are all metrics they're already capturing, and more importantly, that computers can recognize, because they're quantitative.
The computer knows the numbers. What the computer is bad at is judging "impactful". You are drastically overestimating the computer's ability to do that.

You say you want an exciting, pitched firefight to be shown, but at the same time, you ALSO say that you want something that impacted the course of the game. You can't always have both.

What if six people were protected by his ult, but only two enemies were on the point with the other four ulting from just off of it? How "close" is "close": would it be better to have one person on the point or five people who are just slightly farther away from it than the precise number that you define as "close"? Did it actually help hold the objective, or was it wasted because the entire team died a few seconds later anyways because nobody had the DPS to kill off the enemy before it ended anyways?

Computers can't handle vague. Computers can't handle judgement. Computers need to be told exactly which numbers to use at exactly which time.

The Lucio ult you refrence would be great, sure. Might even win PotG. Unless the people he shielded were 0.000001m too far from the point, in which case it fails the "close to the objective" requirement. Prevent 5000 damage? Too bad, your team was three pixels too far to the left, better luck next time. Have fun watching the Reinhardt "prevent" 2500 damage while walking through a door 1v6.




Pretty much all of that is qualitative, so obviously not. How are they deciding between Bastion and Tobjorn now? Whatever numbers they use to figure out can be applied here.
"Obviously not" what? The numbers they're using now are exactly what you're saying are wrong, and now you're saying they should keep using them? :smallconfused:

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

*snip*

I can address this in more detail if you want, but I don't think a bit of uncertainty I'm who gets Play of the Game is bad in your examples, as MOST of them sound like they could be the play of the game. I've already seen games where it has to decide between three-five impressive plays, seemingly randomly.

Plus, I'm a Comp Sci major: I know how hard exact rules can be to implement. The current system is all variables though, so adding more just makes the equation more complex, not any more or less reliable. How do they determine how many more points an objective kill is than a kill? Guessing, testing, adjusting, and testing again. That's how you'd expand the system as well.

[Psyren]

The computer knows the numbers. What the computer is bad at is judging "impactful". You are drastically overestimating the computer's ability to do that.

Stopping damage is impactful, just as causing damage is impactful. It seems pretty simple to me.



You say you want an exciting, pitched firefight to be shown, but at the same time, you ALSO say that you want something that impacted the course of the game. You can't always have both.

And sometimes you can. It's not even that hard. These games have pretty clear objectives, and if the majority or entirety of both teams are fighting it out on top of said objectives, that obviously matters to the game as a whole.



What if six people were protected by his ult, but only two enemies were on the point with the other four ulting from just off of it? How "close" is "close": would it be better to have one person on the point or five people who are just slightly farther away from it than the precise number that you define as "close"? Did it actually help hold the objective, or was it wasted because the entire team died a few seconds later anyways because nobody had the DPS to kill off the enemy before it ended anyways?

If you can get PotG by racking up a big killstreak but you lose the match anyway, why can't you get it by blocking a ton of damage and losing the match anyway? Why is the first better in your eyes?



Computers can't handle vague. Computers can't handle judgement. Computers need to be told exactly which numbers to use at exactly which time.

I'm aware of how computers work, thank you. :smallannoyed:



The Lucio ult you refrence would be great, sure. Might even win PotG. Unless the people he shielded were 0.000001m too far from the point, in which case it fails the "close to the objective" requirement. Prevent 5000 damage? Too bad, your team was three pixels too far to the left, better luck next time. Have fun watching the Reinhardt "prevent" 2500 damage while walking through a door 1v6.

This is where I come back to "it doesn't have to be exact." Yeah, you might pull off a great Lucio ult but miss PotG because you were just outside of the sweet spot on the objective where it starts counting. But you'd still get more Lucio PotGs this way than you do now, when kills are the only things that matter. Perfect should not be the enemy of better.



"Obviously not" what? The numbers they're using now are exactly what you're saying are wrong, and now you're saying they should keep using them? :smallconfused:

What I meant was that obviously, metrics like "map knowledge" and "situational awareness" - terms you used, not me - are qualitative and cannot/should not be considered.

[NeoVid]

I think we can all agree that it should be improved enough that we stop seeing the archetypal Torbjorn PotG. (http://buizilla.tumblr.com/post/144303119117/wayneradiotv-play-of-the-game)

[The_Jackal]

Stopping damage is impactful, just as causing damage is impactful. It seems pretty simple to me.

Circumstance is everything. A Reinhardt getting gunned down while sitting on the payload can absorb 2,500 damage. Whether someone else would have eaten that damage requires considerably more CPU overhead, that I'd just assume not be calculated, in lieu of actually letting the physics engine do its job: Making the game work.


And sometimes you can. It's not even that hard. These games have pretty clear objectives, and if the majority or entirety of both teams are fighting it out on top of said objectives, that obviously matters to the game as a whole.

Objective proximity we've already agreed is a pretty important factor, and MIGHT be easy to code, except that it completely dis-incentivizes flanking maneuvers and other completely legitimate tactics. Let me put it another way: A Genji or Tracer who did nothing all game but dash in to assassinate the opposing team's Mercy before getting unceremoniously executed is actually likely contributing enormously to his team's success, but will likely NEVER get PotG, even according your your system, because what's often most impactful can't occur inside a 15 second window. That's fine, that's what medals and commendations are for.


If you can get PotG by racking up a big killstreak but you lose the match anyway, why can't you get it by blocking a ton of damage and losing the match anyway? Why is the first better in your eyes?

I know which one is more entertaining to watch. Blocking a ton of damage doesn't actually require ANY skill, it just requires getting SHOT. Well, who's doing a better job of protecting the payload now? The Reinhardt who sits and gets his face pummelled for 15 seconds straight, or one who hides behind the payload keeping it from being pushed back while actually avoiding being gunned down?


I'm aware of how computers work, thank you. :smallannoyed:

Then why are we having this conversation? What you're asking for would require an immense amount of development effort for negligible gain, because, as I've said before, EVERYONE thinks they deserve to get player of the game. Even if they didn't, and all were capable of being objective, there's still a reason that SportCenter doesn't show lots of highlight footage of offensive linemen doing pass blocking. It IS NOT INTERESTING, no matter how crucial or effective it is.


This is where I come back to "it doesn't have to be exact." Yeah, you might pull off a great Lucio ult but miss PotG because you were just outside of the sweet spot on the objective where it starts counting. But you'd still get more Lucio PotGs this way than you do now, when kills are the only things that matter. Perfect should not be the enemy of better.

Except that 'better' is completely subjective. What I'm saying is that a 'better' PotG is one that shows a bunch of kills, because it's more consistently likely to show something interesting than watching Mercy pop her ult on a team that just got blown-up by rip-tire.


I think we can all agree that it should be improved enough that we stop seeing the archetypal Torbjorn PotG. (http://buizilla.tumblr.com/post/144303119117/wayneradiotv-play-of-the-game)

We DO. But that's an easy fix: Turret Kills shouldn't count towards PotG at all.

[NeoVid]

That would make it totally impossible for Symmetra to get PotG, instead of just almost impossible.

I see what people mean about how painful it will be to code this.

[Manticoran]

Also... Torbjorn doesn't see play at all basically at the higher ranks from what I understand, so like... I expect people will get significantly better at dealing with him as the game gets older.

[Psyren]

Circumstance is everything. A Reinhardt getting gunned down while sitting on the payload can absorb 2,500 damage. Whether someone else would have eaten that damage requires considerably more CPU overhead, that I'd just assume not be calculated, in lieu of actually letting the physics engine do its job: Making the game work.

You do realize they're already tracking this? Next time you play and Reinhardt or Winston show up in the vote cards, read what you're actually voting for.



Objective proximity we've already agreed is a pretty important factor, and MIGHT be easy to code, except that it completely dis-incentivizes flanking maneuvers and other completely legitimate tactics.

For objective proximity, I meant specifically for healers. Flankers/snipers/whoevers that dps regardless of location are already able to get PotG. Nothing has to change there.



I know which one is more entertaining to watch. Blocking a ton of damage doesn't actually require ANY skill, it just requires getting SHOT.

> Implying the current rash of Bastion and Torbjorn PotGs require skill.


What you're asking for would require an immense amount of development effort for negligible gain, because, as I've said before, EVERYONE thinks they deserve to get player of the game.

No. Please say it with me:

They're already tracking this.
They're already tracking this.
They're already tracking this.

Sound Barrier absorbs: tracked.
Transcendence heals: tracked.
Reinhardt and Winston barrier absorbs: tracked.

All you have to do is watch for spikes in those things (indicating a firefight), and apply a multiplier if it happens on top of the objective. That's it. And even then they may not get PotG anyway, but at least they'd have a shot. It's more than they're getting now.

[huttj509]

On a side note, it's amusing how often I hear some variation of:

"Heroes never die die die die!"

It's also amusing how often I hear "Die di-" when I'm bastion and a reaper hops in front of me to ult my team. Nice try bud, but you ain't invincible during the ult.

[Ionbound]

I hear the opposite of that a lot, actually. "DIE DIE DIE!" "Heroes never die~!" I like it better that way too.

[Psyren]

I hear the opposite of that a lot, actually. "DIE DIE DIE!" "Heroes never die~!" I like it better that way too.

That is amusing when that happens :smallbiggrin:

[Legoshrimp]

You do realize they're already tracking this? Next time you play and Reinhardt or Winston show up in the vote cards, read what you're actually voting for.



For objective proximity, I meant specifically for healers. Flankers/snipers/whoevers that dps regardless of location are already able to get PotG. Nothing has to change there.



> Implying the current rash of Bastion and Torbjorn PotGs require skill.



No. Please say it with me:

They're already tracking this.
They're already tracking this.
They're already tracking this.

Sound Barrier absorbs: tracked.
Transcendence heals: tracked.
Reinhardt and Winston barrier absorbs: tracked.

All you have to do is watch for spikes in those things (indicating a firefight), and apply a multiplier if it happens on top of the objective. That's it. And even then they may not get PotG anyway, but at least they'd have a shot. It's more than they're getting now.

They might be tracking it in a way that lets this happen, but they could just be keeping track of a total. If it is just a total it does require some effort to start tracking it in a way that lets you see spikes.

Also they should just use machine learning to decide PotGs :smalltongue:

I think the problem with what you want is it would lead to boring PotGs. Sure lucio pressing q can impact the game a lot, but that doesn't mean it is a good highlight.
The point of PotG isn't showing what the most impact single play was. It is to show a cool flashy play.

Also that torb clip shows he placed his turret in a decent place and the enemy team is so bad they can't kill an unprotected torbjorn turret.
I think if you don't like torb play of the games lucio ult play of the games won't be much better.

Also arguing that torb turrets shouldn't be counted is like saying healing shouldn't be counted. You are just targeting a different set of characters.

Edit: Also I think people are assuming that the system is really stupid. It already does account for healing and rezs at least. I think the most likely thing is that it uses fire which was mentioned already. I think there is a chance pretty much all of the things you are arguing for are already taken into account, but blizzard has decided tuning it so that you see regular play of the games based on shielding or healing are boring so they are really hard to get. Mercy PotGs are only cool because they happen rarely and showcase really good ults.

[AgentPaper]

You do realize they're already tracking this? Next time you play and Reinhardt or Winston show up in the vote cards, read what you're actually voting for.

...

No. Please say it with me:

They're already tracking this.
They're already tracking this.
They're already tracking this.

Sound Barrier absorbs: tracked.
Transcendence heals: tracked.
Reinhardt and Winston barrier absorbs: tracked.

All you have to do is watch for spikes in those things (indicating a firefight), and apply a multiplier if it happens on top of the objective. That's it. And even then they may not get PotG anyway, but at least they'd have a shot. It's more than they're getting now.

You didn't read what he wrote. He was talking about tracking Reinhardt barrier absorption that would have hit another player, as opposed to absorbed damage that would have just hit a wall because there was nobody behind him. The damage absorbed value shown in the final tally just raw amount of damage that his shield took, which isn't a very good indicator of Reinhardt playing well. Sometimes it means he's done well, other times it just means that he was consistently pushing too far forward and getting his shield broken by the whole enemy team over and over without actually helping his team all that much. Which is what you'll likely see most of the time if you try to give Reinhardt PotG for blocking damage.

I'm saying this as someone who mains Reinhardt: Don't give me PotG for blocking damage. Those are not the cool and interesting moments. I'd rather get PotG for stunning the whole enemy team with my ult, then blasting and smashing them into bits, even if I don't get the chance to do that in most games.

[Psyren]

I think the problem with what you want is it would lead to boring PotGs. Sure lucio pressing q can impact the game a lot, but that doesn't mean it is a good highlight.

Pressing q randomly when nothing is going on, I agree that would be dull and shouldn't make it. But pressing q in the middle of a pitched battle and the shields absorbing a ton of enemy fire, I don't see how that could be boring unless the players hate firefights, in which case why are they even playing this game?

@AgentPaper: I'm in favor of Reinhardt ult moments making it too, if they involve protecting or capturing the objective. Now tell me how many actually made PotG, rather than Reaper/McRee/Pharah walking up and shooting all the fish you placed in the barrel for them getting it. Yawn.

[ChaosOS]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5w2-3Dn9PGg

Hanzo v Genji Animated Short

[The_Jackal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5w2-3Dn9PGg

Hanzo v Genji Animated Short

Looks awesome. It makes me hope that they're planning on building out any single-player or coop content for the game.

[Psyren]

Looks awesome. It makes me hope that they're planning on building out any single-player or coop content for the game.

I know! It's like, they have all this rich lore and setting and characterization, yet they seem perfectly happy wasting it all on "and then the Overwatch shot each other in the face repeatedly forever."

[AgentPaper]

I know! It's like, they have all this rich lore and setting and characterization, yet they seem perfectly happy wasting it all on "and then the Overwatch shot each other in the face repeatedly forever."

Actually, I would argue that they don't actually have any strong lore, at least not yet. What they do have is strong characters, and everything we've seen so far has only served to further reinforce those characters and to try and make us care about them more. The actual story of what's going on in the background is fairly simplistic in comparison, which makes sense because all it's really there for is to give a backdrop for the characters to play off of.

[Psyren]

Actually, I would argue that they don't actually have any strong lore, at least not yet. What they do have is strong characters, and everything we've seen so far has only served to further reinforce those characters and to try and make us care about them more. The actual story of what's going on in the background is fairly simplistic in comparison, which makes sense because all it's really there for is to give a backdrop for the characters to play off of.

It's not fully fleshed out yet, sure, but the morsels they've provided have gotten me interested in the major setting events independent of the characters too. For example, the Omnic Crisis that is touched on in several backstories (Zenyatta, Bastion, Zarya, Torjbjorn) as well as the questionable morality of the Vishkar Corporation (Symmetra, Lucio) and the shadowy Talon terrorist group who seem to be orchestrating it all (Widowmaker, and possibly Reaper and Soldier 76), plus the other unexplained phenomena causing problems in the setting (Mei, D. Va, Winston.)

[Landis963]

It's not fully fleshed out yet, sure, but the morsels they've provided have gotten me interested in the major setting events independent of the characters too. For example, the Omnic Crisis that is touched on in several backstories (Zenyatta, Bastion, Zarya, Torjbjorn) as well as the questionable morality of the Vishkar Corporation (Symmetra, Lucio) and the shadowy Talon terrorist group who seem to be orchestrating it all (Widowmaker, and possibly Reaper and Soldier 76), plus the other unexplained phenomena causing problems in the setting (Mei, D. Va, Winston.)

They're setting up factions and mini-conflicts, much like LoL does with the nations of Runeterra and the "Friends" and "Rivals" categories. We have the Omnics (Zenyatta, Bastion) and their allies (Genji) and enemies (Torbjorn, Zarya, D.Va). We have Talon (Widowmaker, Reaper), and their enemies (Winston, Tracer, Soldier). We have Vishkar (Symmetra) and its enemies (Lucio). And then we have the oddballs of Mei (foreshadowing some climate issues) and Junkrat and Roadhog (who arguably fit into the anti-Omnic grouping as well, given how the Australian Outback was irradiated in the first place). Finally we have the Shimada brothers.

[Anteros]

I kinda doubt they ever flesh the story out that much. Honestly, it's for the best that they don't. I don't really trust Blizzard's ability to tell a story anymore. When was the last time they told a good one? Warcraft 3?

I'm not really dissing Blizzard. They are good at creating interesting (if stereotypical) characters and settings, and great at making interesting game mechanics. Their games are usually very polished.

[Psyren]

Diablo: "Demons over there, kill they ass" :smallbiggrin:

My motives are admittedly a bit selfish - I want them to flesh out Overwatch, not because I truly believe Blizzard to be paragons of storytelling in games (I don't think they are either to be honest), but because doing so might increase the chances that we get more game modes in Overwatch than silly little Domination and Payload.

[Mr.Moron]

It's not fully fleshed out yet, sure, but the morsels they've provided have gotten me interested in the major setting events independent of the characters too. For example, the Omnic Crisis that is touched on in several backstories (Zenyatta, Bastion, Zarya, Torjbjorn) as well as the questionable morality of the Vishkar Corporation (Symmetra, Lucio) and the shadowy Talon terrorist group who seem to be orchestrating it all (Widowmaker, and possibly Reaper and Soldier 76), plus the other unexplained phenomena causing problems in the setting (Mei, D. Va, Winston.)

If you sit down and try to compile the information all wiki-pedia it really is very thin. What they've done a great job of is creating an evocative style to environments & characters, while dropping lots of hints at there being something bigger out there. It goes a long way to letting your imagination fill in the gaps and give a real feel of there being this fleshed out, detailed world.

As someone who GMs a lot of tabeltop games:

If someone said "I wish there was an Overwatch RPG out there, so we could make our own heroes and explore the setting" I'd probably shrug and say that kind off stuff isn't out there. I wouldn't know where to begin homebrewing something Overwatch-specific either.

If someone said "Man. Overwatch is cool. Let's play a campaign in <Generic RPG system> about ex-Overwatch agents" I could honestly probably wing something. They've given enough on the tone and general feel of their universe you could create stories to fit with them, even if you're supplying all the detail.