Bow/Crossbow Selection

[This be Richard]

Since Crossbow Expert doesn't free you up to use a shield with a hand crossbow (http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/sageadvice_feats/) and the Fighter (http://community.wizards.com/forum/player-help/threads/4144336) guides (http://community.wizards.com/forum/player-help/threads/4141981) assume it does, I found myself wondering whether it's better for a Fighter to use a hand crossbow for the extra shot as a bonus action or just to use a heavy crossbow and get better range with an average of two more points of damage on all of your normal attacks. Or, for that matter, whether one's better off using a plain old longbow and possibly ignoring the feat entirely.

The (extremely simplified) math I looks like it favors hand crossbows to me:
Assuming you hit about half the time with the extra attack offered by the hand crossbow, doing an average of 8.5 (1d6+5) damage on a hit, that's 4.25 damage per round. With a heavy crossbow doing an average of 2 additional damage on a hit, that's 1 damage per attack per round. Even at level 20, the hand crossbow still comes out slightly on top.
But that's without considering hit rates, the effects of crits, the importance of range, the value of having a spare bonus action, or normal bows in general. Also I could have overlooked something. So I'm still not entirely sure.

This comes as a player is considering a "gunslinger" concept, if that's relevant to anyone's thoughts.

[Kryx]

According to my numbers for RAW fighter assuming Battlemaster and Precise shot (not great, but best DPR option for Battle Master, it's very little so the numbers wouldn't really change much for EK):

5:
Longbow 20 DPR
Heavy Crossbow 13 DPR
Hand Crossbow 14 DPR

11:
Longbow 36 DPR
Heavy Crossbow 38 DPR
Hand Crossbow 43 DPR

17:
Longbow 40 DPR
Heavy Crossbow 42 DPR
Hand Crossbow 47 DPR

20:
Longbow 52 DPR
Heavy Crossbow 55 DPR
Hand Crossbow 59 DPR

Full math in DPR of Classes in my sig.

Hand/Heavy Crossbow beat longbow at 6+

[Sigreid]

The only noticeable difference I see is the ability to use that bonus action to drill one additional opponent, spreading the damage out. And that would only really show up when murdering mooks.

[Person_Man]

Full math in DPR of Classes in my sig.

Wow, that's a crazy useful chart Kryx.

But I noticed on one of the tabs that Barbarian with a Polearm appears to have the highest overall damage curve, but his calculation includes Smite. Is that a typo, or was that supposed to be Frenzy? (In other words, he only has the best damage assuming you Frenzy?)

[JellyPooga]

The real issue is that crossbows only look cool when you take a single "Finish Him!" shot, preferably one handed, optionally at point-blank range. Reloading a crossbow in a hurry makes you look like a fool who couldn't finish the job with one shot. Reloading a crossbow slowly and deliberately, on the other hand, makes you look like the first shot was intentionally not fatal so you can monologue at your victim (if you're evil) or deliver a one-liner (if you're not).

Bows are always cool :smallwink:

[Kryx]

Wow, that's a crazy useful chart Kryx.
You gotta be more active. It's been around for a bit!
Thanks though. :)


But I noticed on one of the tabs that Barbarian with a Polearm appears to have the highest overall damage curve, but his calculation includes Smite. Is that a typo, or was that supposed to be Frenzy? (In other words, he only has the best damage assuming you Frenzy?)
Smite? Where are you looking? I don't see Smite at all except for Paladin. Assuming you're looking at "GWM R" (Raw numbers for GWM builds) a Barbarian there does indeed assume Frenzy. I chose Frenzy because it's the most easily calculated Babarian build. Totem does better defenses with Bear and better party helping with Wolf, but that's not DPR.

Now to explain frenzy it assumes you use it 1.5 times an adventuring day (or 2 times a day assuming over 3 days you have 2 adventuring days followed by 1 day of rest).

Frenzy matters only much for GWM. For Polearm and Polearm+GWM Frenzy does next to nothing (which is why I houserule it).