Building on a broken start to Cleric Archer: where to go from here?

[FrancisBean]

We recently started a new campaign as a side thing while a number of players in the main campaign are unavailable. The DM decided to experiment with us creating our characters organically, during play, starting as 0-level nobodies. I angled for Sorcerer, but gotten beaten out for it by another player. Now I'm left with a character that's pretty unoptimized (not a horrible thing in this group), but I'm having trouble coming up with the best direction to take him.

What I've got: a 1st-level neutral good Elven Cleric/1 of Corellon Larethian, Elf and Community domains. Str 11, Dex 16, Con 8, Int 12, Wis 14, Cha 14. The Elf domain comes with Point Blank Shot for free. I took Rapid Shot as the 1st-level feat. Obviously, I'm heading for the Cleric Archer build. I just gained my 2nd level and haven't yet leveled up.

With a Con of 8, he's obviously not a front-liner of any sort. A Wisdom score of 14 limits me to 4th level spells; even if all of my bumps go to Wisdom, I'll still hit my head on the casting limit at 15th level if I can't get the items for a Wisdom bonus.

Just to make it worse, we have a party of 3, and they're all casters. (Cleric, Sorcerer, and Druid.) The Druid is the closest thing we have to a front-liner.

For creation, we were told SRD only, although a few exceptions were made (E.g., my domains). That will probably change going forward, but for the moment I should assume I'm stuck with it.

What on earth do I do now? No "coulda-shoulda-woulda," please... I'm trying to figure out what's doable going forward. I've looked at the stock Cleric Archer builds, and most of them seem centered on Zen Archery and DMM:Persist buffs. My Dex is already higher than my Wisdom, and with a group of low-OP players DMM:Persist cheese would be particularly fragrant.

On the fluff side: we were all given 3 points at 0-level creation to plug into a Craft or Profession; I've got 3 ranks in Profession: Butler. He's a stuck-up, snooty, very etiquette-conscious prig. Crunch that plays into that fluff is wonderful, but I haven't found anything yet.

[DedWards]

Is it possible to rearrange your ability scores? If so, what where they before racial mods? (I'm not sure if the ones you posted are before or after racial mods)

STR isn't as important as a melee Cleric, and normally a cleric isn't proficient with Composite bows. Being an elf does change this a bit though, and one of the few non magical ways for an archer to get more damage is to get a composite bow with his STR mod value.

DEX is probably the most important ability for you, second only to WIS as that's your casting stat. Your feet selection is going to have to be very specific, and most of the ranged combat ones rely on DEX.

As a rearguard, CON isn't as important as it is for a vanguard. Don't get me wrong, everyone loves more HP, so it should still be higher than 10, but it doesn't have to be very high.

Honestly, I think INT is a good choice for a dump stat. As far as I remember, none of your class abilities rely on it, and your number of skill points isn't affected by negative INT.

WIS, as your casting stat, is probably the second most important ability. It also increases Perception, which is the most used skill, and Will.

With you going Archer and there being a Sorcerer in the group, CHA isn't as important. You only really need it for Selective Channeling, which requires it to be at 13.


And for the love of all that is good, I pray that your Druid is building as tanky as he can. My character died in our last session because of a lack of tank, more than anything else.

[Jack_Simth]

A Wisdom score of 14 limits me to 4th level spells; even if all of my bumps go to Wisdom, I'll still hit my head on the casting limit at 15th level if I can't get the items for a Wisdom bonus.So make them. Take Craft Wondrous Item at 3rd. Quicken Spell at 9th. Others... you'll probably be firing into melee a lot. Perhaps Precise shot?

[Troacctid]

So here's the deal. Archery damage isn't going to scale up into higher levels. Like, at all. So don't even worry about it. You'll be fine. Use it as a damage source early on, and when you level up a little more, you can transition into being a proper primary spellcaster--item creation feats, metamagic feats, the whole deal--and keep your bow for sentimental value. Your feats are a sunk cost, so there's no need to throw good money after bad. Rapid Shot and Point Blank Shot are obviously going to be of limited usefulness, but Cleric is a strong enough class that you can afford to throw away a couple feats and you'll still be alright.

The perfect prestige class for a snooty cleric is Church Inquisitor. You're always right about everything, you're an impeccable judge of character, you've mastered every kind of social situation there is, and you know it.

[FrancisBean]

Is it possible to rearrange your ability scores? If so, what where they before racial mods? (I'm not sure if the ones you posted are before or after racial mods)

The stats I gave are after racial mods, and I'm stuck with them. It's the whole "grown organically" thing. We had a pre-racial stat cap at 14 anyway, so I couldn't have gotten a higher wisdom anyway.


Take Craft Wondrous Item at 3rd.

Now that's a great idea! I'm not used to taking the time to build my own items, since our DM usually keeps the plot moving very quickly. But this campaign seems to move a little slower than usual, which makes it a very good option!


The perfect prestige class for a snooty cleric is Church Inquisitor. You're always right about everything, you're an impeccable judge of character, you've mastered every kind of social situation there is, and you know it.

That would take an alignment shift and a deity change. (Corellon Larethian's CG; Church Inquisitor requires LG or LN character and member of a LG church.) Pity, because I really like the fluff!

All in all, it sounds like my best bet is to head for item creation, while using the archery as a way to be useful at lower levels. That's a lot more road map than I had, and it helps me out quite a bit. I'll start looking into the item side of things, set some priorities on what to make when, etc. I've never played an item crafter, so at least it'll be something new.

[Jack_Simth]

Now that's a great idea! I'm not used to taking the time to build my own items, since our DM usually keeps the plot moving very quickly. But this campaign seems to move a little slower than usual, which makes it a very good option!You can craft while adventuring, generally. You need 8 hours of rest to regain spells, 1 hour to pray, and I'll assume 1 hour for various unspecified camp stuff. Crafting takes 8 hours a day in a place suitable for preparing spells. Thus, on any day that you spend less than 6 hours traveling, fighting, or what have you, you can craft if you'd be able to prepare your spells. Given that fights generally last a few rounds at most, and dungeons don't generally have 20 or 30 miles of passageways, you'll probably be good unless you're doing a lot of overland travel.

[Troacctid]

Some other good prestige classes:

Ruathar. Elf-themed prestige class with a good chassis, good skills, and a few flavorful elf-themed abilities. You don't gain much, but you don't give much up, either.

Seeker of the Misty Isle (probably gaining Survival as a class skill via Ruathar to meet the prerequisite). Great for elves. Plays off your relationship with your people, probably involving quest hooks from the DM.

Sentinel of Bharrai. If Book of Exalted Deeds is on the table, this is a good class to play up an affinity for nature. In exchange for a weaker chassis and a feat tax, you get the ability to turn into a bear at will, which is pretty neat.

Paragnostic Apostle. Usually better on a Cloistered Cleric, but it would work for you too. Gives you better skills and some neat little benefits in exchange for a weaker chassis.

Thaumaturgist. Available on the SRD, so it should be pre-approved. Works great if you want to be a summoner cleric who is on a first-name basis with angels (which, FYI, is an excellent type of cleric to be). Otherwise, it's less about your personality and more about the types of spells you like to cast, so it's pretty generic—just about any Cleric can take it.

Contemplative. Level 11 is a long way off, but if you ever meet your deity in person by then, this is a great prestige class to take.

[Flickerdart]

Does your DM use the greater status from the PHB or the one from SpC? The PHB one is so much cooler that it's not even funny. Ideally, get him to use that one.

[Nifft]

Is it possible to be a Cloistered Cleric instead of a regular Cleric?

Part of that would be role-play: you probably want ranks in Knowledge (nobility & royalty) to be a snooty urbane butler type, plus having more skill points overall is better for being a know-it-all in general.

Mechanically, it's nice because you cover the party's Intelligence gap with your Bardic Lore and expanded spell list, and you'll have enough skill points to max out Concentration, Spellcraft, Diplomacy (to take advantage of your Community domain bonus), and have points left over for whatever you want. Being able to cast identify by touching your Divine Focus instead of expending a 100 gp material component is pretty great, too.

- - -

At high level, unless you invest in getting extra damage from somewhere, your bow won't be your primary combat contribution -- but it's still going to be a nice option whenever you have a spare action.

Extra damage could come from:
- War Domain + Holy Warrior [Reserve] feat
- Craft Magic Arms & Armor (a +1 Flaming Frost Shock Holy Longbow + greater magic weapon every day)
- Knowledge Devotion feat + a bunch of ranks in the relevant Knowledge skills (Cloistered Cleric helps here)

- - -

Snooty butler Elf, hmm... remind people to wipe their feet before climbing a tree? Won't come up often, but you can have a bunch of fun with it ("Well of course you don't know any better, that's why you people belong on the ground.")